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Shaan Shahid wants govt to celebrate local heroes instead of airing 'Dirilis: Ertugrul'

It's kinda odd that they would carry that beef all the way to the UK.

You will be surprised as to how well Indians and Pakistani kids get along well in most places in UK educational institutions (except for deprived areas in Birmingham or similar but this is decreasing rapidly), however caste beef does occur between certain Pakistani Punjabi groups. I've seen some horrifying clashes from Afghans towards Jatt Muslims though, the latter would end up being the winner in the end usually.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan is making any local version of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ertugrul?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ertugrul</a> ?<br><br>What do you say about this? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ErtugrulGhazi?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ErtugrulGhazi</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ertugrulurduptv?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ertugrulurduptv</a> <a href="https://t.co/eutws3uCyh">pic.twitter.com/eutws3uCyh</a></p>— Khaleej Mag (@KhaleejMag) <a href="https://twitter.com/KhaleejMag/status/1304029413747630082?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well…
:))) :))) :))) you're a legend man
More than Ertgrul he looks like a lost member of Japanese teen/pop band
Someone better mail him back to Japan...
 
I hear what you're saying but a lot of people deep down know Jatts dominate a lot of areas of Punjab and can literally do whatever they want, it's due to their rich history as farmers, soldiers and warriors. It's the reason why lower castes such as Gujjars tend to get hot headed with them from time to time, I've seen stuff like this happen in the UK in educational institutes where they pick fights with Jatts. Also I believe Sheikh is a title not a caste, it's just like how Chaudhry is a a title but other castes have copied it and stuck it on their names when it was exclusively a Jatt title.
are you ok?
Are you really calling a whole group of people low caste?
 
That Pakistani actor in the Pakistani version of Ertugul looks like a younger version of Liam Neeson from the star wars movies.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan is making any local version of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ertugrul?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ertugrul</a> ?<br><br>What do you say about this? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ErtugrulGhazi?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ErtugrulGhazi</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ertugrulurduptv?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ertugrulurduptv</a> <a href="https://t.co/eutws3uCyh">pic.twitter.com/eutws3uCyh</a></p>— Khaleej Mag (@KhaleejMag) <a href="https://twitter.com/KhaleejMag/status/1304029413747630082?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well…

lol is that Ali Zafar?

Anyways considering the original series is available in urdu what's the point of making a remake?
 
I am 99% sure you know his name...:misbah3

I 100% know his name now because of the post above. Yes,I know and have heard of Ali Zafar but sorry he is not a Amitabh, Amir Khan or something to stick out in any make up that I will recognize him immediately. I have barely seen him in a few scenes of a movie because my niece when she was younger used to love the songs of meri brother ki dulhan and watch it all time :))

after the above post yes I got who that is.
 
But you see, we’re again discussing descent. My contention was that descent alone does not determine something as nebulous and constantly evolving as cultural heritage. And it is in a state of flux, subject to change.

Indeed.

Moving completely away from descent, this prompts the thought on how we might characterise some of the cultural influences on Muslims in South Asia and understand changes over the longer run. Cultures are of course always interacting but in a very broad brush and highly select manner we note the following in relation to four models: Persian, Arab, Western and folk.

Though many increasingly turned to other models, traces of Persian culture have remained in parts of South Asia. Urdu of course draws heavily on Persian vocabulary. Urdu poetry in its images and style can be considered the offspring of Persian poetry. Two of the great Muslim poets of the twentieth century - Iqbal and Faiz - continued to value the ghazal. They did not abandon the tradition as some poets did but reworked it. For Faiz, for example, the suffering ashiq becomes the suffering citizen and the beloved now stands for justice or political revolution. Arguably remnants of the culture also survived in ideas of what it is to be cultured. The love of elevated expression and eloquence, the idea that to speak and behave in a certain way was in someway to convey levels of refinement perhaps owes something to the Persianate norms of comportment. Sufi traditions that draw on Persian culture have also been kept alive by the tradition of qawwali. In the world of painting, the work of the celebrated Pakistani artist, Abdul Rahman Chughtai, was infused by the spirit of Mughal reminiscence.

Seen however through the lens of the ‘moving film,’ Persianate influences have on the whole declined from the nineteenth century onwards. A slow democratisation of political culture brought an end to politics of the darbar. Popular sentiment became more important. The challenge of colonial rule was also significant. For Muslims of upper India, the shock of the aftermath of the Indian rebellion in 1857 prompted many to reconsider where inspiration was to come from.

Many turned to Arab models instead. In the realm of religious knowledge, the Deoband movement placed a greater emphasis on the revealed sciences and less on what had become associated with Persianate culture - rational sciences. Ahmad Raza Khan, the key spirit behind the rival ‘Barelvi’ movement, was a prolific writer of fatwa and on many occasions he presented his fatwa to certain ulama in Mecca and Medina seeking their validation.

In the case of medical knowledge - Unani Tibb - Seema Alavi has argued that from the eighteenth century, medical texts in Arabic became increasingly prevalent. Such texts projected medicine as less of an ‘aristocratic virtue’ as Persian traditions had and more as a science.

In the field of poetry, in the late nineteenth century, Altaf Husayn Hali and Muhammad Husain Azad - amongst others - attacked the Persian heritage for producing poetry that was too ornate and effete, that ultimately failed to inspire action in the ‘real’ world. Hali looked to English and Arab models and it is striking that in his famous Musaddas, according to Christopher Shackle and Javed Majeed, he drew on an unusual Arabic metre.

In the 1970s and 1980s Arab influence became more visible in Pakistan. There was Saudi patronage of religious institutions. There were the growing economic connections as Pakistan sought expansion into new markets following the loss of its Eastern Wing. There were closer diplomatic ties which helped pave the way towards the possession of nuclear weapons. There was the great export of labour to the Gulf and all that meant for interaction with different Islamic cultures. Significant, too, was the orientation of the Zia regime. The impact, we might say, was heard: Regula Burckhardt Qureshi notes, that in the Zia era there was a proliferation of cassettes of Islamic recitation, particularly in the style developed in Egypt. Qureshi also points out that in this era, qawwali began to feature Arabic drum beats and was “recorded in a strongly Arabic pronunciation.”

The influence of the Western models have been no less profound. Colonial rule provided the example of British institutional models. Even the Deobandis who sought to provide an alternative education to Western examples set up their seminaries along the lines of the bureaucratic style of the colonists, as Barbara Metcalf has shown. Professional staff, students taking exams, the presence of a central library were signs of a more professional approach being adopted in place of the more traditionally informal and personal models of education.

Many of course went much further and actively sought to build bridges with the British. English had after all become the language of power. A pioneer of modernism in British India, Sayyid Ahmad Khan, expended considerable energy to argue that the divine message could be reconciled to science and that it was wholly within the ambit of reason. The college he founded at Aligarh, was in the words of Peter Hardy “to produce a class of Muslim leaders with a footing in both Western and Islamic culture, at ease both in British and Muslim society.”

Though modernists remained committed to Islam, many of their opponents criticised them as lacking authenticity and following their Western masters rather too closely. The satirical poet, Akbar Allahabadi, wrote bitingly in one poem:

Chhod literature ko apni history ko bhuul ja
shaikh-o-masjid se taalluq tark kar school ja
char-din ki zindagi hai koft se kya faeda
kha double roti clerki kar khushi se phuul ja

(Leave your literature, forget your history. Abandon the sheikh and the mosque, attend school. Life’s too short, so why vex yourself. Eat English bread, be a clerk, blossom with happiness)

More amorphous, and rooted in local languages are the folk models. To take just the Punjab as an example, the existence of tragic love tales - Heer Ranjha, Sohni Mahiwal, Mirza Sahiban, Sassi Punnhun - and the poetry of Sufis - such as Sultan Bahu and Bullhe Shah - provided a basis of shared cultural values within much of the region.

The Pakistani state searching for a focus for national unity, transcending the local and provincial, has often sought to down play or ignore folk cultures. Folk models have therefore sometimes been turned into a mode of protest. In the paintings of Zainul Abedin, an East Pakistani/Bangladeshi artist, art historian Iftikhar Dadi identified an “abiding concern for the local, the rural, and the folk.” Dadi notes, Abedin’s “choice of motifs” represented a “pointed bypassing of modernisation, protesting the continued underdevelopment and cultural marginalisation of East Pakistan throughout the 1950s and 1960s.”

This is not to say the state has always ignored folk culture. In the era of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, though not without its ambiguities it must be said, more space opened up for imagining Pakistan as a nation grounded in historic and regional cultures. The Bhuttos had themselves been regular visitors at the shrine of Lal Shabaz Qalandar, in Sehwan Sharif. And it was in the seventies that the Lok Virsa in Islamabad was founded. Folk artists - such as Allan Faqir and Mai Bhagi - were also given more airtime on TV.
 
are you ok?
Are you really calling a whole group of people low caste?

Like I said before, castes don't mean anything nowadays and I don't really believe in it but quite a lot of people still care about it. Some people get heated because they're not happy with themselves (cliche but true) because of institutional caste racism. I'm just saying the bitter truth of what happens in the real world due to this.
 
Why should Pakistan make a movie on Turkish barbarians and war-mongers?
 
Why should Pakistan make a movie on Turkish barbarians and war-mongers?

It does seem a bit pointless when everyone in Pakistan has already watched the real thing. But then this is what people have been saying, it is lack of originality and flair from Pakistan producers which has allowed Ertugul and your own beloved Bollywood to flourish.
 
It does seem a bit pointless when everyone in Pakistan has already watched the real thing. But then this is what people have been saying, it is lack of originality and flair from Pakistan producers which has allowed Ertugul and your own beloved Bollywood to flourish.

The Pakistani industry does not need to produce rubbish propaganda like Ertugrul. There are a lot of other interesting and genuine themes that we can tap into.

Unfortunately, nonsense like Ertugrul will always be hit in Pakistan because of our embarrassing obsession with anything related to Arabs and Turks, whom we consider our ancestors.
 
The Pakistani industry does not need to produce rubbish propaganda like Ertugrul. There are a lot of other interesting and genuine themes that we can tap into.

Unfortunately, nonsense like Ertugrul will always be hit in Pakistan because of our embarrassing obsession with anything related to Arabs and Turks, whom we consider our ancestors.

What is stopping you from producing these interesting and genuine themes for the last half century then? Do you think if you were capable of doing it, then you would have done so by now instead of your public lapping up Ertugrul and Bollywood hits like Jab we Met?
 
The Pakistani industry does not need to produce rubbish propaganda like Ertugrul. There are a lot of other interesting and genuine themes that we can tap into.

Unfortunately, nonsense like Ertugrul will always be hit in Pakistan because of our embarrassing obsession with anything related to Arabs and Turks, whom we consider our ancestors.

the theme that we tap into is the wife and sas bahu conspiracy.
Shohar ko biwi ke bhen sey pyar hogya. Larkay kay 3 dewanay :)))
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan is making any local version of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ertugrul?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ertugrul</a> ?<br><br>What do you say about this? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ErtugrulGhazi?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ErtugrulGhazi</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ertugrulurduptv?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ertugrulurduptv</a> <a href="https://t.co/eutws3uCyh">pic.twitter.com/eutws3uCyh</a></p>— Khaleej Mag (@KhaleejMag) <a href="https://twitter.com/KhaleejMag/status/1304029413747630082?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well…

No creativity, just copy and paste. The story of Pakistan.
 
What is stopping you from producing these interesting and genuine themes for the last half century then? Do you think if you were capable of doing it, then you would have done so by now instead of your public lapping up Ertugrul and Bollywood hits like Jab we Met?

Pakistan’s industry is geared towards dramas and we have produced plenty of classics over the years. The film industry is only picking up now, things are improving and will improve in the future.

The Pakistani industry doesn’t need to produce rubbish like Ertugrul.
 
Pakistan’s industry is geared towards dramas and we have produced plenty of classics over the years. The film industry is only picking up now, things are improving and will improve in the future.

The Pakistani industry doesn’t need to produce rubbish like Ertugrul.

I haven't watched Ertugrul but in all fairness it has received very good imdb ratings, so I may have to see what the fuss is all about.
 
Pakistan’s industry is geared towards dramas and we have produced plenty of classics over the years. The film industry is only picking up now, things are improving and will improve in the future.

The Pakistani industry doesn’t need to produce rubbish like Ertugrul.

Not everyone wants to watch 'quality' sas bahu dramas 24/7, Pakistanis aren't an alien race, they like some variety same as we British do I am sure. BBC and Hollywood produce some absolute garbage as well, but different strokes for different folks. We aren't going to tell MTV to stop producing the Kardashians just because we don't personally like it, so if Pakistanis want to watch Ertugrul as well as Indian hits like Jab we Met, then just let them get on with it and try and get a subscription to Zee tv.
 
I don’t watch many Bollywood movies or movies in general because I prefer tv shows.

Do you see Bollywood as furthering anti Pakistan or anti Muslim narratives? Do you view them as a foreign influence, the way you view Arab or Turkish influences?
 
Pakistan’s industry is geared towards dramas and we have produced plenty of classics over the years. The film industry is only picking up now, things are improving and will improve in the future.

The Pakistani industry doesn’t need to produce rubbish like Ertugrul.

How do you know the show is rubbish? How many episodes have you watched?

You might not agree with the ideology or the concept of the show but it’s rating and popularity around the world shows that’s it’s a quality series.
 
I haven't watched Ertugrul but in all fairness it has received very good imdb ratings, so I may have to see what the fuss is all about.

I started watching it and 10 epidsodes in, it's a very good good show tbf. The acting is very very good, the costumes excellent, the fight scences very good too. Im watching in it's original language with English subtitles.

Give it a go.


On topic, Pakistan is less than an century old, no need.

No issue for Muslims celebrating past great heros such as Salahudin, Al-Ghazali or Malcom X. What unites people is not the colour of their skin or the langauge they speak but their core belief in One God and the Prophet(pbuh). The Prophet(pbuh) was an Arab but no Muslim from any race or ethnicity would put him even close to any of their tribal/ethnic heros.
 
I started watching it and 10 epidsodes in, it's a very good good show tbf. The acting is very very good, the costumes excellent, the fight scences very good too. Im watching in it's original language with English subtitles.

Give it a go.


On topic, Pakistan is less than an century old, no need.

No issue for Muslims celebrating past great heros such as Salahudin, Al-Ghazali or Malcom X. What unites people is not the colour of their skin or the langauge they speak but their core belief in One God and the Prophet(pbuh). The Prophet(pbuh) was an Arab but no Muslim from any race or ethnicity would put him even close to any of their tribal/ethnic heros.

Except the history of Muslims is over a thousand years old and the history of the constituent provinces of Pakistan that are actually represented in the name Pakistan, have a history that is maybe 3000 - 5000 years old. So Pakistan can make history themed movies based off their history.
 
not everyone wants to watch 'quality' sas bahu dramas 24/7, pakistanis aren't an alien race, they like some variety same as we british do i am sure. Bbc and hollywood produce some absolute garbage as well, but different strokes for different folks. We aren't going to tell mtv to stop producing the kardashians just because we don't personally like it, so if pakistanis want to watch ertugrul as well as indian hits like jab we met, then just let them get on with it and try and get a subscription to zee tv.

boom!
 
I started watching it and 10 epidsodes in, it's a very good good show tbf. The acting is very very good, the costumes excellent, the fight scences very good too. Im watching in it's original language with English subtitles.

Give it a go.


On topic, Pakistan is less than an century old, no need.

No issue for Muslims celebrating past great heros such as Salahudin, Al-Ghazali or Malcom X. What unites people is not the colour of their skin or the langauge they speak but their core belief in One God and the Prophet(pbuh). The Prophet(pbuh) was an Arab but no Muslim from any race or ethnicity would put him even close to any of their tribal/ethnic heros.

Couldn't have said that any better.

I'm sure it's very good from the ratings and trailers I've seen. When I stop playing Warzone, I will watch it.
 
Except the history of Muslims is over a thousand years old and the history of the constituent provinces of Pakistan that are actually represented in the name Pakistan, have a history that is maybe 3000 - 5000 years old. So Pakistan can make history themed movies based off their history.

Which historical figures would be relevant?

A Hindu or Bhuddist living 2000 years ago, is no interest to me.
 
Pakistan should make movies / TV series which reflect our own culture and history. Government (in future if economy takes off a bit) should even subsidise this type of activity to boost soft power.

Plenty of interesting stories to choose from.
Below are a few examples I can think of but I am sure there are plenty of others as well:
1. Babur’s rise from wandering nomad to king of north India.
2. Humayun’s riches to rags to riches tale
3. Shah Alam’s attempt to restore the Mughal empire
4. The population of the canal colonies in the 19th century Punjab
5. The coming of the aryan people to north India
 
Indeed.

Moving completely away from descent, this prompts the thought on how we might characterise some of the cultural influences on Muslims in South Asia and understand changes over the longer run. Cultures are of course always interacting but in a very broad brush and highly select manner we note the following in relation to four models: Persian, Arab, Western and folk.

Though many increasingly turned to other models, traces of Persian culture have remained in parts of South Asia. Urdu of course draws heavily on Persian vocabulary. Urdu poetry in its images and style can be considered the offspring of Persian poetry. Two of the great Muslim poets of the twentieth century - Iqbal and Faiz - continued to value the ghazal. They did not abandon the tradition as some poets did but reworked it. For Faiz, for example, the suffering ashiq becomes the suffering citizen and the beloved now stands for justice or political revolution. Arguably remnants of the culture also survived in ideas of what it is to be cultured. The love of elevated expression and eloquence, the idea that to speak and behave in a certain way was in someway to convey levels of refinement perhaps owes something to the Persianate norms of comportment. Sufi traditions that draw on Persian culture have also been kept alive by the tradition of qawwali. In the world of painting, the work of the celebrated Pakistani artist, Abdul Rahman Chughtai, was infused by the spirit of Mughal reminiscence.

Seen however through the lens of the ‘moving film,’ Persianate influences have on the whole declined from the nineteenth century onwards. A slow democratisation of political culture brought an end to politics of the darbar. Popular sentiment became more important. The challenge of colonial rule was also significant. For Muslims of upper India, the shock of the aftermath of the Indian rebellion in 1857 prompted many to reconsider where inspiration was to come from.

Many turned to Arab models instead. In the realm of religious knowledge, the Deoband movement placed a greater emphasis on the revealed sciences and less on what had become associated with Persianate culture - rational sciences. Ahmad Raza Khan, the key spirit behind the rival ‘Barelvi’ movement, was a prolific writer of fatwa and on many occasions he presented his fatwa to certain ulama in Mecca and Medina seeking their validation.

In the case of medical knowledge - Unani Tibb - Seema Alavi has argued that from the eighteenth century, medical texts in Arabic became increasingly prevalent. Such texts projected medicine as less of an ‘aristocratic virtue’ as Persian traditions had and more as a science.

In the field of poetry, in the late nineteenth century, Altaf Husayn Hali and Muhammad Husain Azad - amongst others - attacked the Persian heritage for producing poetry that was too ornate and effete, that ultimately failed to inspire action in the ‘real’ world. Hali looked to English and Arab models and it is striking that in his famous Musaddas, according to Christopher Shackle and Javed Majeed, he drew on an unusual Arabic metre.

In the 1970s and 1980s Arab influence became more visible in Pakistan. There was Saudi patronage of religious institutions. There were the growing economic connections as Pakistan sought expansion into new markets following the loss of its Eastern Wing. There were closer diplomatic ties which helped pave the way towards the possession of nuclear weapons. There was the great export of labour to the Gulf and all that meant for interaction with different Islamic cultures. Significant, too, was the orientation of the Zia regime. The impact, we might say, was heard: Regula Burckhardt Qureshi notes, that in the Zia era there was a proliferation of cassettes of Islamic recitation, particularly in the style developed in Egypt. Qureshi also points out that in this era, qawwali began to feature Arabic drum beats and was “recorded in a strongly Arabic pronunciation.”

The influence of the Western models have been no less profound. Colonial rule provided the example of British institutional models. Even the Deobandis who sought to provide an alternative education to Western examples set up their seminaries along the lines of the bureaucratic style of the colonists, as Barbara Metcalf has shown. Professional staff, students taking exams, the presence of a central library were signs of a more professional approach being adopted in place of the more traditionally informal and personal models of education.

Many of course went much further and actively sought to build bridges with the British. English had after all become the language of power. A pioneer of modernism in British India, Sayyid Ahmad Khan, expended considerable energy to argue that the divine message could be reconciled to science and that it was wholly within the ambit of reason. The college he founded at Aligarh, was in the words of Peter Hardy “to produce a class of Muslim leaders with a footing in both Western and Islamic culture, at ease both in British and Muslim society.”

Though modernists remained committed to Islam, many of their opponents criticised them as lacking authenticity and following their Western masters rather too closely. The satirical poet, Akbar Allahabadi, wrote bitingly in one poem:

Chhod literature ko apni history ko bhuul ja
shaikh-o-masjid se taalluq tark kar school ja
char-din ki zindagi hai koft se kya faeda
kha double roti clerki kar khushi se phuul ja

(Leave your literature, forget your history. Abandon the sheikh and the mosque, attend school. Life’s too short, so why vex yourself. Eat English bread, be a clerk, blossom with happiness)

More amorphous, and rooted in local languages are the folk models. To take just the Punjab as an example, the existence of tragic love tales - Heer Ranjha, Sohni Mahiwal, Mirza Sahiban, Sassi Punnhun - and the poetry of Sufis - such as Sultan Bahu and Bullhe Shah - provided a basis of shared cultural values within much of the region.

The Pakistani state searching for a focus for national unity, transcending the local and provincial, has often sought to down play or ignore folk cultures. Folk models have therefore sometimes been turned into a mode of protest. In the paintings of Zainul Abedin, an East Pakistani/Bangladeshi artist, art historian Iftikhar Dadi identified an “abiding concern for the local, the rural, and the folk.” Dadi notes, Abedin’s “choice of motifs” represented a “pointed bypassing of modernisation, protesting the continued underdevelopment and cultural marginalisation of East Pakistan throughout the 1950s and 1960s.”

This is not to say the state has always ignored folk culture. In the era of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, though not without its ambiguities it must be said, more space opened up for imagining Pakistan as a nation grounded in historic and regional cultures. The Bhuttos had themselves been regular visitors at the shrine of Lal Shabaz Qalandar, in Sehwan Sharif. And it was in the seventies that the Lok Virsa in Islamabad was founded. Folk artists - such as Allan Faqir and Mai Bhagi - were also given more airtime on TV.

Sorry I missed this... its hard to know when you've been quoted on the cellphone.

Growing up, we had a Qari Sahab come and teach us the Quran, and he was unusually fond of Akbar Allahabadi. Apart from the passage you quoted, another of his favorites was:

تم شوق سے کالج میں پڑھو پارک میں پھولو
جائز ہے غباروں میں اڑو چرخ پر جھولو
لکین ایک سخن بندہ؛ عاجز کی رہے یاد
الله کو اور اپنی حقیقت کو نہ بھولو

The irony of course is that the poet himself studied at an English-language school, hence the extensive English vocabulary he employed to satirical effect, and was briefly employed as a clerk before rising through the ranks. I wonder if there is an element of self deprecation in his poetry.

Speaking of the Bhutto era and the patronage extended to folk artistes through Lok Virsa, there was some effort prior to this on part of the ethnic nationalist left towards bringing folk culture to the fore and harnessing it for political purposes. They saw Sufi shrines as veritable portals into some bygone organic syncretic subculture that flourished at the grassroots far away from the genteel world of the various royal courts. They probably felt dismayed at the modern nation state appropriating this, or attempting to, but a more charitable reading of this attempt would be to see it as a vindication, of things coming full circle at long last.
 
On somewhat of a tangent, @KB, I recall reading correspondence between Akbar Allahabadi and a young Iqbal from very early in the 20th century. Iqbal, not quite at the height of his powers yet but already a formidable poet, far superior to Akbar in the craft, nevertheless comes across as incredibly courteous and respectful. I guess like in cricket today, the seniority culture prevailed amongst our poets too?
 
Growing up, we had a Qari Sahab come and teach us the Quran, and he was unusually fond of Akbar Allahabadi. Apart from the passage you quoted, another of his favorites was:

تم شوق سے کالج میں پڑھو پارک میں پھولو
جائز ہے غباروں میں اڑو چرخ پر جھولو
لکین ایک سخن بندہ؛ عاجز کی رہے یاد
الله کو اور اپنی حقیقت کو نہ بھولو

The irony of course is that the poet himself studied at an English-language school, hence the extensive English vocabulary he employed to satirical effect, and was briefly employed as a clerk before rising through the ranks. I wonder if there is an element of self deprecation in his poetry.

The wit and satirical quality is reason enough to read the poetry of Akbar Allahabadi (1846-1921). His poetry, though, also says much about the times he lived in, as in fact the poem cited above indicates.

For many Muslims, particularly in upper India, the colonial challenge raised profound questions. What did it now mean to be Muslim? The sense of the world having been turned upside down, that sense of cultural decline, comes through strongly in some of Allahabadi’s poems.

Wo mutrab aur wo saaz wo gaana badal gaya
neendain badal gain wo fasana badal gaya
rang-i-rukh-i-bahaar ki zeenat hui nai
gulshan me bulbulon ka tarana badal gaya
Fitrat ke har asar mein howa aik inqlaab
Pani falak pe khait mein daana badal gaya

(the minstrel, the music, the song, sleep itself, the tales, the colours of spring, the tune of the nightingales in the flower garden have all changed. Every aspect of nature turned upside down; rain from the sky and the seed in the field no longer what it once was.)

In another he says that should you pass by his ruined village, you will see a soldiers' barracks belonging to the British standing next to a broken mosque:

Jo guzro gay idhar se mera ujra gaon dekho gay
Shikasta aik masjid hai bagal mein Gora Barrak hai

Cultural decline had happened before his eyes: the days of sherbet long gone. Instead these were the days of soda, lemonade, whiskey and tea:

Gaye sherbet ke din yaaron ke aage ab to ay Akbar
Kabhi soda kabhi lemonade kabhi whiskey kabhi tea hai

Muslims, of course, responded differently to the colonial challenge. One response was that of the modernists - Sayyid Ahmad Khan and the Aligarh movement - who attempted to adapt Islam to the needs of the modern world without surrendering its soul. But for many of its critics, including Allahabadi, they went too far. There was danger of reducing Islam to mere identity as he sarcastically noted:

Nai tahzib men diqqat ziyada to nahin hoti
Mazahib rahte hain qaaim faqat imaan jaata hai

(Not so troubling are these modern times / religions remain intact, only faith is lost)

In his attempts to reconcile religion with reason, in his fervent belief in science, Sayyid Ahmad Khan, so his many of critics thought, forgot that faith and belief is transcendent. Heart not reason, believing without seeing, were the essence of faith. Or as Allahabadi put it, rather more succinctly, God was beyond the limits of the telescope:

Khuda bahir hai haden dorbeen se

He felt that in falling over themselves to fill their bellies and please their western masters, these modern Muslims had little sense of self-worth. Though actually a nightingale, they were prepared to become parrots of the British so that they could have a council seat:

Haqiqat mein main hon bulbul magar charay ki khawahish mein
Bana hon member konsil yahan mithu mian ho kar

Though the British have kept their faith, the modernists in their attempts to ape the west have lost theirs:

Dars tha yaksaan magar wo to masihi he rahe
Tujh pe mazhab ke evaz shetan ka qaabu ho gaya
Aik he bottle se pee hotel mein dono ne sharaab
Lutf mastee un ko aaya or tu ullu ho gaya

(Attending the same lesson, the Christian kept his faith / but Satan captured yours / from one bottle you both drank the same wine in the hotel / he became intoxicated, you became a fool)

Finally, we note that unsurprisingly, given his sentiments above, Allahabadi was far more anti-colonial than many of the modernists he critiqued. In one couplet, he wrote there was not much difference between the colonial secret police and criminals:

Sheikh jee ke dono betay ba-hunar peda howay
Aik hain khufia police mein aik phansi pa gay

(Both sons of the Sheikh turned out rather skilled / One is in the secret police, the other sent to the gallows)

He warns Muslims to be wary of the British rulers. In a reference to the Christian belief in Trinity, he says,

Bachtay raho in ki teziyon se akbar
Tum kaya ho khuda ke teen tukray kar den

(Protect yourself from [British] sharpness, Akbar / What are you, when they cut God himself into three pieces).
 
The wit and satirical quality is reason enough to read the poetry of Akbar Allahabadi (1846-1921). His poetry, though, also says much about the times he lived in, as in fact the poem cited above indicates.

For many Muslims, particularly in upper India, the colonial challenge raised profound questions. What did it now mean to be Muslim? The sense of the world having been turned upside down, that sense of cultural decline, comes through strongly in some of Allahabadi’s poems.

Wo mutrab aur wo saaz wo gaana badal gaya
neendain badal gain wo fasana badal gaya
rang-i-rukh-i-bahaar ki zeenat hui nai
gulshan me bulbulon ka tarana badal gaya
Fitrat ke har asar mein howa aik inqlaab
Pani falak pe khait mein daana badal gaya

(the minstrel, the music, the song, sleep itself, the tales, the colours of spring, the tune of the nightingales in the flower garden have all changed. Every aspect of nature turned upside down; rain from the sky and the seed in the field no longer what it once was.)

In another he says that should you pass by his ruined village, you will see a soldiers' barracks belonging to the British standing next to a broken mosque:

Jo guzro gay idhar se mera ujra gaon dekho gay
Shikasta aik masjid hai bagal mein Gora Barrak hai

Cultural decline had happened before his eyes: the days of sherbet long gone. Instead these were the days of soda, lemonade, whiskey and tea:

Gaye sherbet ke din yaaron ke aage ab to ay Akbar
Kabhi soda kabhi lemonade kabhi whiskey kabhi tea hai

Muslims, of course, responded differently to the colonial challenge. One response was that of the modernists - Sayyid Ahmad Khan and the Aligarh movement - who attempted to adapt Islam to the needs of the modern world without surrendering its soul. But for many of its critics, including Allahabadi, they went too far. There was danger of reducing Islam to mere identity as he sarcastically noted:

Nai tahzib men diqqat ziyada to nahin hoti
Mazahib rahte hain qaaim faqat imaan jaata hai

(Not so troubling are these modern times / religions remain intact, only faith is lost)

In his attempts to reconcile religion with reason, in his fervent belief in science, Sayyid Ahmad Khan, so his many of critics thought, forgot that faith and belief is transcendent. Heart not reason, believing without seeing, were the essence of faith. Or as Allahabadi put it, rather more succinctly, God was beyond the limits of the telescope:

Khuda bahir hai haden dorbeen se

He felt that in falling over themselves to fill their bellies and please their western masters, these modern Muslims had little sense of self-worth. Though actually a nightingale, they were prepared to become parrots of the British so that they could have a council seat:

Haqiqat mein main hon bulbul magar charay ki khawahish mein
Bana hon member konsil yahan mithu mian ho kar

Though the British have kept their faith, the modernists in their attempts to ape the west have lost theirs:

Dars tha yaksaan magar wo to masihi he rahe
Tujh pe mazhab ke evaz shetan ka qaabu ho gaya
Aik he bottle se pee hotel mein dono ne sharaab
Lutf mastee un ko aaya or tu ullu ho gaya

(Attending the same lesson, the Christian kept his faith / but Satan captured yours / from one bottle you both drank the same wine in the hotel / he became intoxicated, you became a fool)

Finally, we note that unsurprisingly, given his sentiments above, Allahabadi was far more anti-colonial than many of the modernists he critiqued. In one couplet, he wrote there was not much difference between the colonial secret police and criminals:

Sheikh jee ke dono betay ba-hunar peda howay
Aik hain khufia police mein aik phansi pa gay

(Both sons of the Sheikh turned out rather skilled / One is in the secret police, the other sent to the gallows)

He warns Muslims to be wary of the British rulers. In a reference to the Christian belief in Trinity, he says,

Bachtay raho in ki teziyon se akbar
Tum kaya ho khuda ke teen tukray kar den

(Protect yourself from [British] sharpness, Akbar / What are you, when they cut God himself into three pieces).

What a superb post.
 
The wit and satirical quality is reason enough to read the poetry of Akbar Allahabadi (1846-1921). His poetry, though, also says much about the times he lived in, as in fact the poem cited above indicates.

For many Muslims, particularly in upper India, the colonial challenge raised profound questions. What did it now mean to be Muslim? The sense of the world having been turned upside down, that sense of cultural decline, comes through strongly in some of Allahabadi’s poems.

Wo mutrab aur wo saaz wo gaana badal gaya
neendain badal gain wo fasana badal gaya
rang-i-rukh-i-bahaar ki zeenat hui nai
gulshan me bulbulon ka tarana badal gaya
Fitrat ke har asar mein howa aik inqlaab
Pani falak pe khait mein daana badal gaya

(the minstrel, the music, the song, sleep itself, the tales, the colours of spring, the tune of the nightingales in the flower garden have all changed. Every aspect of nature turned upside down; rain from the sky and the seed in the field no longer what it once was.)

In another he says that should you pass by his ruined village, you will see a soldiers' barracks belonging to the British standing next to a broken mosque:

Jo guzro gay idhar se mera ujra gaon dekho gay
Shikasta aik masjid hai bagal mein Gora Barrak hai

Cultural decline had happened before his eyes: the days of sherbet long gone. Instead these were the days of soda, lemonade, whiskey and tea:

Gaye sherbet ke din yaaron ke aage ab to ay Akbar
Kabhi soda kabhi lemonade kabhi whiskey kabhi tea hai

Muslims, of course, responded differently to the colonial challenge. One response was that of the modernists - Sayyid Ahmad Khan and the Aligarh movement - who attempted to adapt Islam to the needs of the modern world without surrendering its soul. But for many of its critics, including Allahabadi, they went too far. There was danger of reducing Islam to mere identity as he sarcastically noted:

Nai tahzib men diqqat ziyada to nahin hoti
Mazahib rahte hain qaaim faqat imaan jaata hai

(Not so troubling are these modern times / religions remain intact, only faith is lost)

In his attempts to reconcile religion with reason, in his fervent belief in science, Sayyid Ahmad Khan, so his many of critics thought, forgot that faith and belief is transcendent. Heart not reason, believing without seeing, were the essence of faith. Or as Allahabadi put it, rather more succinctly, God was beyond the limits of the telescope:

Khuda bahir hai haden dorbeen se

He felt that in falling over themselves to fill their bellies and please their western masters, these modern Muslims had little sense of self-worth. Though actually a nightingale, they were prepared to become parrots of the British so that they could have a council seat:

Haqiqat mein main hon bulbul magar charay ki khawahish mein
Bana hon member konsil yahan mithu mian ho kar

Though the British have kept their faith, the modernists in their attempts to ape the west have lost theirs:

Dars tha yaksaan magar wo to masihi he rahe
Tujh pe mazhab ke evaz shetan ka qaabu ho gaya
Aik he bottle se pee hotel mein dono ne sharaab
Lutf mastee un ko aaya or tu ullu ho gaya

(Attending the same lesson, the Christian kept his faith / but Satan captured yours / from one bottle you both drank the same wine in the hotel / he became intoxicated, you became a fool)

Finally, we note that unsurprisingly, given his sentiments above, Allahabadi was far more anti-colonial than many of the modernists he critiqued. In one couplet, he wrote there was not much difference between the colonial secret police and criminals:

Sheikh jee ke dono betay ba-hunar peda howay
Aik hain khufia police mein aik phansi pa gay

(Both sons of the Sheikh turned out rather skilled / One is in the secret police, the other sent to the gallows)

He warns Muslims to be wary of the British rulers. In a reference to the Christian belief in Trinity, he says,

Bachtay raho in ki teziyon se akbar
Tum kaya ho khuda ke teen tukray kar den

(Protect yourself from [British] sharpness, Akbar / What are you, when they cut God himself into three pieces).

Terrific, I guess my exposure to Akbar had been limited to the more hackneyed examples from his poetry. The ones you’ve quoted here are heartrending.
 
It should be, do you think Allah SWT's history only started in the 6th century?

I dont mind series going back to BC but those figures must have some relevance to the audience. Film about Moses or Noah would be great but why would I be interested in some Bhuddist hero who has no relevance to me?
 
More Turkish dramas to air as Pakistan, Turkiye agree on joint broadcasts

Information Minister Attaullah Tarar and the communications head of the Turkish presidency on Saturday agreed on joint broadcasts between PTV and Turkiye’s state-run television TRT, including airing popular Turkish dramas in Pakistan, Radio Pakistan reported.

The development came as Tarar, who arrived in Turkiye on Thursday on a three-day official visit, met with Professor Fahrettin Altun, head of communications at the Turkish Presidency.

Tarar is representing Pakistan at Stratcom Summit 2024 being held in Istanbul. Yesterday, he visited the headquarters of TRT World and discussed media cooperation between the two countries.

In their meeting today, Tarar and Altun discussed key issues, including strengthening media cooperation, promoting public diplomacy, and combating Islamophobia and misinformation.

According to Radio Pakistan, an agreement was also reached to form a working group between Pakistan’s Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, and Turkiye’s Directorate of Communications, with focal persons designated from both sides.

“Pakistan and Turkiye share historical and brotherly relations,” said Tarar, who is the minister for information, broadcasting, national heritage and culture.

He highlighted the “vast potential” for media cooperation between both countries and said that such collaborations would help strengthen public-level connections.

The meeting also covered cooperation in the fields of entertainment and tourism, as well as the development of joint projects, which Tarar said would foster an exchange of both countries’ cultures.

He added, “It is important to raise awareness among the youth about the historic ties between the two countries.”

Professor Altun expressed a deep interest in the development of media in Pakistan and acknowledged that the Turkish drama Ertugrul Ghazi gained significant popularity in Pakistan.

He also noted that Pakistani artists and musicians were greatly admired in Turkiye.

The Turkish official said media cooperation between the two countries would help in the fight against Islamophobia and misinformation.

Last month, Turkish Ambassador Irfan Neziroglu showed interest in further strengthening bilateral relations in multiple sectors between the two friendly countries during his meetings with the housing and finance ministers.

In August, after enforcing a Free Trade Agreement (FTA), a high-level Turkish business delegation visiting Pakistan agreed to remove barriers to increasing bilateral investment.

In May, both nations set their sights on enhancing annual bilateral trade to $5 billion in three years, besides intensifying their defence collaboration.

 
Missus watches tons of these turkeye-ish dramas.

Predominant storylines of adulterous affairs, children borne out of wedlock, family business wranglings, backstabbings et al. Fits right in to pak societal happenings.

Come to think of it, this man right here is the one green-lighting the partnership. HA!

1734183389305.png
 
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