Shadab Khan vs Kuldeep Yadav vs Yuzvendra Chahal - Performances in World Cup 2019

[Mujtaba2900]

Shadab Khan: Average 35 Overs. 58 Runs 320
Economy. 5.52. Wickets 9. SR 38.

Kuldeep Yadav. Average 56. Overs 67. Runs 337
Economy. 5.03. Wickets 6. SR 68

Yuzvendra Chahl. Average 37. Overs 74 Runs 442
Economy 6. Wickets 12 SR 37

Rashid Khan (AFG) Has Probably The Worst Stats For Spinners in this WC So no point Including

People Complains A Lot about Shadab Khan bowling Ability But His Performances is Not behind the so Called Best spinners duo of India
And Shadab Khan is Genuine all-rounder Its just he isn't getting time to Freely Demonstrate his batting ability he often Comes When 10-20 Balls Are remaining And Hitting is Not his natural game

 

[Mujtaba2900]

And He Is Only 20

 

[Sunny_majoka]

Shadab is good bowler but he losses focus right in first over.

 

[Zerotohero]

Shadab has only bowled half of the overs when compared to Kuldeep and Chahal
So comparison is a non starter

 

[Pete Rose]

The ppl hating on Shadab usually don’t have numbers on their side.

 

[IAJ]

Shadab has only bowled half of the overs when compared to Kuldeep and Chahal
So comparison is a non starter

Lol, he is only ONE person, even if all bowled their full quota of overs he would have only bowled half of them combined.

After CT the expectations have been sky high from Shadab. That is the reason people get a bit disappointed by his performances and he hasn’t improved as much as we would likes in these two years. But he is young, so could still be a very fine spinner.

 

[sweep_shot]

All three didn't perform as well as they probably would've liked but then again spinners didn't have a great time in this WC. Pacers dominated big time.

 

[sweep_shot]

I must admit Pakistan hasn't found a proper ODI spinner since Ajmal retired. Shadab is no Ajmal.

 

[saeed5646]

His most wicket were at very crucial stage
1)dismissed danger man roy in power play
2)break the crucial partnership of root/butler by getting the wicket of root
3)dismissed nz main man williamson with a excellent delivery
Cannot remember other's. Still not satisfied with his overall bowling but he was not that bad too

 

[PakPremi]

Just what I have been saying in other threads. Shadab done ok but of course needs to improve and has time on his side. Pity Pak don't play much cricket against top opponents.

 

[PakPremi]

The ppl hating on Shadab usually don’t have numbers on their side.

Its more agenda driven as they have their personal likes or hates.

 

[rhony]

Shadab is a good bowler and a gun fielder. He's very young and will improve. His batting isn't good. He's a tail ender currently so he isn't an AR

 

[Xoib]

Shadab has unjustifiably got a lot of hate on PP during the WC with markhor and mamoon leading the pack. Shady did ok during the tourney no doubt he has to improve but the way people talk they were lumping him with Hassan and Malik which is not true at all.

Shadab can become a genuine world class bowler if he can string together 2 complete season of FC cricket though he seems very much contend playing pyjama leagues.

 

[hur rizvi]

Shadab is a good bowler and a gun fielder. He's very young and will improve. His batting isn't good. He's a tail ender currently so he isn't an AR

His batting is not suited to his spot

He’s not a tailender. He has potential to be a genuine batsman. Just watch his back to back 50s against England in bowler friendly conditions

 

[Rellu_Katta]

i think he is a must in the team but problem is he isnt going to run through a side like Chahal and Kuldeep would.. now the problem pakistan have is that they cannot play another proper spinner in the team given Imad's performance... Imad has out performed shadab and played an un-matchable role .. was excellent (i do not rate him high enough but i am more than happy to accept when i am wrong) ... so now given imad and Shadab, we can not bring in likes of Umar Khan, Zafar Gohar or anyother new spinner...

only way for this to happen would be if Shadab and Imad suddenly turn into a Ben Stokes type of player who can smash with high average at no6 ... but for that to happen both of them need to bring their batting to a higher level. something like a Ben stokes and Moeen Ali type where both of them are able to bat long, strike hard when needed and play defensive if wickets are lost on the top, only then we can bring in an extra spinner....

 

[Khan12]

Shadab is a good bowler and a gun fielder. He's very young and will improve. His batting isn't good. He's a tail ender currently so he isn't an AR

No he's not a tail ender. Although he doesn't have the power in Odi's, He's a perfect no 7 or 8 for test. Tailender don't last long against Rabada, Styen, Anderson Broad, Woakes.

 

[maqbool]

The Indian spinners havent had a good world and the Indian team was justified in selecting jadeja for the semi finals.

Shadab is a good spinner and should be persisted with.

 

[Mamoon]

The ppl hating on Shadab usually don’t have numbers on their side.

Spot on

Its more agenda driven as they have their personal likes or hates.

Actually, it is the other way round. People who defend Shadab are the ones who don't have numbers on their side.

Shadab averages 37 against the top 5 sides.

Kuldeep averages 24 and Chahal 27.

An average of 37 is awful for the so-called main spinner of the team. So there you go, people who criticise Shadab do have numbers on their side.

Now since the pro-Shadab campaigners don't, their fragile argument is based on the following:

- he is young
- he tends to take important wickets
- Kuldeep and Chahal have performed poorly as well

There are problems with all of these arguments and it is not hard to dissect them. "he is young" is a relatively credible argument, but not all young players develop into top performers. In fact, it is a rarity in Pakistan because most of our players fall off a cliff during what should be their peak years. He may or may not follow the trend, but he is not good enough at present.

"he takes important wickets" means nothing. It is used to mask his inconsistency. This paper argument was used to defend Afridi's performance for 20 years, who has very similar numbers to Shadab (against the top sides) but spread over 400 games.

As far as the performance of Kuldeep and Chahal in this World Cup is concerned, they have performed below their capabilities while Shadab has performed at par level. A 50 averaging batsman who averages 20 in a tournament is a less of a concern than a 30 averaging batsman who averages 30.

You can always count on the 50 averaging batsman to get back to his best, but when it comes to the 30 averaging batsman, you have to question his capability.

Whether Shadab improves or not is something time will tell, but the bottom-line is that at the moment, he is not good enough and doesn't deserve to be Pakistan's frontline spinner.

 

[Hasan123]

As if Shadab has been anything special in the tournament. Kuldeep has been off it but I think Chahal has done well for the most part.

 

[Markhor]

The surfaces in this World Cup haven't helped wrist spinners generally. It would be more useful to compare Shadab Khan's overall record against the Top 7 ranked ODI teams with his counterparts around the world:



These numbers are nowhere near good enough for a frontline spinner. You could argue the others are specialist spinners whereas Shadab is an all-rounder. But Shadab averages 24 with the bat against the Top 7 at a SR of 67 !

So why is he in the team if he's not delivering with either bat or ball ? His theatrics at backward point ? This is a classic example of PSL making six week wonders out of mediocre players when it would be more prudent to assess a bowler's long-term record in domestic cricket before handing out international caps.

Shadab needs to play at least two full seasons of 4 day cricket where he can bowl long spells to improve his control and stock ball. He won't do that bowling 4 overs in second rate T20 leagues which he's planning to play more of after this World Cup. I believe the next stop is Toronto.

 

[Mamoon]

The surfaces in this World Cup haven't helped wrist spinners generally. It would be more useful to compare Shadab Khan's overall record against the Top 7 ranked ODI teams with his counterparts around the world:

View attachment 93675

These numbers are nowhere near good enough for a frontline spinner. You could argue the others are specialist spinners whereas Shadab is an all-rounder. But Shadab averages 24 with the bat against the Top 7 at a SR of 67 !

So why is he in the team if he's not delivering with either bat or ball ? His theatrics at backward point ? This is a classic example of PSL making six week wonders out of mediocre players when it would be more prudent to assess a bowler's long-term record in domestic cricket before handing out international caps.

Shadab needs to play at least two full seasons of 4 day cricket where he can bowl long spells to improve his control and stock ball. He won't do that bowling 4 overs in second rate T20 leagues which he's planning to play more of after this World Cup. I believe the next stop is Toronto.

Brilliant post. However, brace yourself for the "he is 20", "he takes important wickets", and "other spinners failed also" arguments. Shadab is an average player who has been fast-tracked as if he is Wasim. There is no substitute for domestic experience, even if the standard of domestic cricket isn't great.

 

[Abdullah]

The ppl hating on Shadab usually don’t have numbers on their side.

I don't care about numbers, he didn't play or bowl in 2 out of our 3 losses!
He got root Williamson and de cocks wickets at vital junctures.
That is enough

 

[Bilal7]

I must admit Pakistan hasn't found a proper ODI spinner since Ajmal retired. Shadab is no Ajmal.

No one has been on Ajmal's level since Ajmal retired, not even Imran Tahir. Anyone who was expecting Pakistan to replace such a great spinner within a few years did not realize how great of a spinner Ajmal actually was.

Shadab is very talented and should be a good player for us moving forward but let's have realistic expectations please.

 

[AdamM97]

Shadab is the only proper spinner in the team and that can be uncomfortable, especially if you bowl alongside a darter like Imad.

I truly believe that Shadab’s potential can be unleashed if he has another proper spinner like Zafar Gohar playing alongside him. Playing two spinners is better than one imo.

 

[Abdullah]

His most wicket were at very crucial stage
1)dismissed danger man roy in power play
2)break the crucial partnership of root/butler by getting the wicket of root
3)dismissed nz main man williamson with a excellent delivery
Cannot remember other's. Still not satisfied with his overall bowling but he was not that bad too

Given the guy was diagnosed with hepatitis a month b4 the world cup and he didn't bowl in 2 out of 3 losses, people are being Uber critical. He had a decent tournie

 

[Mean&Green]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I read your stupid article I didn’t want to quote it but this thread was based on this World Cup not overall and obviously shadab isn’t better than chahal and kuldeep but you hate the guy way too much cut him some slack he’s only a kid is it personal with you that you hate all Niazis

 

[PakPremi]

Lol at comparing stats of a 20 year old with senior spinners of the world with lots of first class and international experience.
We all saw how much Pak missed Shadab when he was not available in the England series and the games he was left out in the world cup.
No one is saying he will be the best spinner for Pak, but he provides good utility in all three facets and is a must at least in limited overs. No point quoting his batting stats when he normally has less than 5 overs to bat. If he bats at 6 then you will see his true capability.

 

[PakPremi]

Imran Tahir and Adil Rashid are vital players for SA and England but average in mid 30s, Shadab average is only 2/3 away from them, so why are they regulars in their team ?

If Shadab had the luxury of playing on turning home pitches like the Indian duo, his average would also improve a lot.

Going back to the topic both Indian spinners failed to make any impact in this world cup and Shadab provided good breaks for Pakistan, so he was no less useful than those two.

 

[big_gamer007]

All three were rubbish in world cup. Kuldeep still got his moment with the delivery to Babar.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

The Shadab hate was disgusting to see. How can one hate everything related to their country so much i will never understand it. Half of the forum was after Shadab like mad and as usual the hate filled agenda was started by a selected few.

 

[Xoib]

The surfaces in this World Cup haven't helped wrist spinners generally. It would be more useful to compare Shadab Khan's overall record against the Top 7 ranked ODI teams with his counterparts around the world:

View attachment 93675

These numbers are nowhere near good enough for a frontline spinner. You could argue the others are specialist spinners whereas Shadab is an all-rounder. But Shadab averages 24 with the bat against the Top 7 at a SR of 67 !

So why is he in the team if he's not delivering with either bat or ball ? His theatrics at backward point ? This is a classic example of PSL making six week wonders out of mediocre players when it would be more prudent to assess a bowler's long-term record in domestic cricket before handing out international caps.

Shadab needs to play at least two full seasons of 4 day cricket where he can bowl long spells to improve his control and stock ball. He won't do that bowling 4 overs in second rate T20 leagues which he's planning to play more of after this World Cup. I believe the next stop is Toronto.

This thread is about performance in the World Cup. Yes Shadab has to improve but it is also clear he was better then KulCha on the ODI's biggest stage.

 

[Xoib]

Actually, it is the other way round. People who defend Shadab are the ones who don't have numbers on their side.

Shadab averages 37 against the top 5 sides.

Kuldeep averages 24 and Chahal 27.

An average of 37 is awful for the so-called main spinner of the team. So there you go, people who criticise Shadab do have numbers on their side.

Now since the pro-Shadab campaigners don't, their fragile argument is based on the following:

- he is young
- he tends to take important wickets
- Kuldeep and Chahal have performed poorly as well

There are problems with all of these arguments and it is not hard to dissect them. "he is young" is a relatively credible argument, but not all young players develop into top performers. In fact, it is a rarity in Pakistan because most of our players fall off a cliff during what should be their peak years. He may or may not follow the trend, but he is not good enough at present.

"he takes important wickets" means nothing. It is used to mask his inconsistency. This paper argument was used to defend Afridi's performance for 20 years, who has very similar numbers to Shadab (against the top sides) but spread over 400 games.

As far as the performance of Kuldeep and Chahal in this World Cup is concerned, they have performed below their capabilities while Shadab has performed at par level. A 50 averaging batsman who averages 20 in a tournament is a less of a concern than a 30 averaging batsman who averages 30.

You can always count on the 50 averaging batsman to get back to his best, but when it comes to the 30 averaging batsman, you have to question his capability.

Whether Shadab improves or not is something time will tell, but the bottom-line is that at the moment, he is not good enough and doesn't deserve to be Pakistan's frontline spinner.

Maybe you need to read the thread topic before going on your rant. This was about performances in the world cup, all your boring rant proves is that KulCha are bowling equivalent of Hasham Amla i:e bilaterial bullies

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I read your stupid article I didn’t want to quote it but this thread was based on this World Cup not overall and obviously shadab isn’t better than chahal and kuldeep but you hate the guy way too much cut him some slack he’s only a kid is it personal with you that you hate all Niazis

Lol at comparing stats of a 20 year old with senior spinners of the world with lots of first class and international experience.
We all saw how much Pak missed Shadab when he was not available in the England series and the games he was left out in the world cup.
No one is saying he will be the best spinner for Pak, but he provides good utility in all three facets and is a must at least in limited overs. No point quoting his batting stats when he normally has less than 5 overs to bat. If he bats at 6 then you will see his true capability.

Imran Tahir and Adil Rashid are vital players for SA and England but average in mid 30s, Shadab average is only 2/3 away from them, so why are they regulars in their team ?

If Shadab had the luxury of playing on turning home pitches like the Indian duo, his average would also improve a lot.

Going back to the topic both Indian spinners failed to make any impact in this world cup and Shadab provided good breaks for Pakistan, so he was no less useful than those two.

No matter how much "aye bayen shayen" you guys do, the bottom-line is that there are better spinners than Shadab available in Pakistan and they deserve to play ahead of him. International cricket is not a platform where you can thrust raw players and hope they improve with time, especially when you already have better options at your disposal. Shadab needs to go back to F/C cricket and put in the hard yards like everyone else.

 

[Mamoon]

Maybe you need to read the thread topic before going on your rant. This was about performances in the world cup, all your boring rant proves is that KulCha are bowling equivalent of Hasham Amla i:e bilaterial bullies

What is the point? Kuldeep and Chahal are world class spinners who had an average tournament, while Shadab is an average spinner who had an average tournament. So what do we do? Do we praise Shadab for performing to his usual mediocre level?

 

[Markhor]

Lol at comparing stats of a 20 year old with senior spinners of the world with lots of first class and international experience.
We all saw how much Pak missed Shadab when he was not available in the England series and the games he was left out in the world cup.
No one is saying he will be the best spinner for Pak, but he provides good utility in all three facets and is a must at least in limited overs. No point quoting his batting stats when he normally has less than 5 overs to bat. If he bats at 6 then you will see his true capability.

Kuldeep and Chahal have only played 8-10 more ODIs than Shadab. Shadab has now played 41 ODIs and 5 Tests so I don't know how long we can keep clutching onto this inexperience defence.

A SR of 67 is terrible no matter where you bat, but especially if you're coming in at 7 or 8. Has Shadab produced a SINGLE valuable batting contribution in ODIs since debuting ? As for utility in all three facets - this is the same defence used to justify Hafeez and Malik's long and mediocre careers, that they provide balance as they're all rounders etc when these average bits and pieces players take the spot of a specialist who's more likely to perform consistently.

Regarding Tahir and Rashid, a bowling average in the mid 30s for a wrist spinner is decent when you play your home games on non-turning wickets. Whereas Shadab plays on dry, spin friendly UAE wickets. Time and again against good players of spin he's exposed - see his record vs India.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

What is the point? Kuldeep and Chahal are world class spinners who had an average tournament, while Shadab is an average spinner who had an average tournament. So what do we do? Do we praise Shadab for performing to his usual mediocre level?

and the cry baby is back lol .... i am still waiting for the cry baby to come out and rant abt how ICC should ban left arm seamers against india bcz they actually perform well... they should ban direct throws and cathes cz india cannot win if tht happens...

Kuldeep and Chahal , for a few years , have the luxury of bowling in a tight bowling unit that picks wickets at the top of the order and has an excellent fielding support... shadab had it the other way around...

no1 denies that only Kuldeep (cahal no chance) is better than Shadab but the constant crying abt how much better they are is abysmal ....

Cricket is a game of confidence ... where Jadeja played innings of his life yesterday, top 3 failed.. bcz jadeja took the confidence from his bowling and off-the-field critisicm ....Shadab needs to play on spinner friendly conditions to boost his confidence ...

 

[chacha kashmiri]

What is the point? Kuldeep and Chahal are world class spinners who had an average tournament, while Shadab is an average spinner who had an average tournament. So what do we do? Do we praise Shadab for performing to his usual mediocre level?

I’m not sure why shadab is in the odi team apart from everyone blaming our West Indian loss on him and our subsequent victory to his employment
Mohammed hafeez offers much more to the team apart from his age
Shadab is only in the team because Mickey rates him

Zafar gohar and raza hasan are better odi players
He was never going to be the mushtaq of 92
Yasir shah is just as expendable in odis

 

[PakPremi]

Kuldeep and Chahal have only played 8-10 more ODIs than Shadab. Shadab has now played 41 ODIs and 5 Tests so I don't know how long we can keep clutching onto this inexperience defence.

A SR of 67 is terrible no matter where you bat, but especially if you're coming in at 7 or 8. Has Shadab produced a SINGLE valuable batting contribution in ODIs since debuting ? As for utility in all three facets - this is the same defence used to justify Hafeez and Malik's long and mediocre careers, that they provide balance as they're all rounders etc when these average bits and pieces players take the spot of a specialist who's more likely to perform consistently.

Regarding Tahir and Rashid, a bowling average in the mid 30s for a wrist spinner is decent when you play your home games on non-turning wickets. Whereas Shadab plays on dry, spin friendly UAE wickets. Time and again against good players of spin he's exposed - see his record vs India.

I also mentioned first class (read it as domestic) experience, and do not forget they hunt as a pair, Shadab would also perform better if he a spin partner on other end and an attacking captain to give him confidence.|And no UAE pitches are not as spin friendly as Indian specially prepared pitches.

 

[PakPremi]

What is the point? Kuldeep and Chahal are world class spinners who had an average tournament, while Shadab is an average spinner who had an average tournament. So what do we do? Do we praise Shadab for performing to his usual mediocre level?

No we should only praise Pandya's mediocre levels and give ayen bhain shain reasons why he is one of the best all rounder.

 

[Pete Rose]

Actually, it is the other way round. People who defend Shadab are the ones who don't have numbers on their side.

Shadab averages 37 against the top 5 sides.

Kuldeep averages 24 and Chahal 27.

An average of 37 is awful for the so-called main spinner of the team. So there you go, people who criticise Shadab do have numbers on their side.

Now since the pro-Shadab campaigners don't, their fragile argument is based on the following:

- he is young
- he tends to take important wickets
- Kuldeep and Chahal have performed poorly as well

There are problems with all of these arguments and it is not hard to dissect them. "he is young" is a relatively credible argument, but not all young players develop into top performers. In fact, it is a rarity in Pakistan because most of our players fall off a cliff during what should be their peak years. He may or may not follow the trend, but he is not good enough at present.

"he takes important wickets" means nothing. It is used to mask his inconsistency. This paper argument was used to defend Afridi's performance for 20 years, who has very similar numbers to Shadab (against the top sides) but spread over 400 games.

As far as the performance of Kuldeep and Chahal in this World Cup is concerned, they have performed below their capabilities while Shadab has performed at par level. A 50 averaging batsman who averages 20 in a tournament is a less of a concern than a 30 averaging batsman who averages 30.

You can always count on the 50 averaging batsman to get back to his best, but when it comes to the 30 averaging batsman, you have to question his capability.

Whether Shadab improves or not is something time will tell, but the bottom-line is that at the moment, he is not good enough and doesn't deserve to be Pakistan's frontline spinner.

Given that all three have played about a similar number of games (i would argue shadab's is still lesser exposure given he has played ten fewer one-dayers). A few points to run through
Chahal averages 26.35, Yadav averages 23.96, and Shadab 29: at an aggregate level thats pretty notwithstanding your thousand word essays on the subject.
This world cup was the first true test of all three spinners - an that metric I would say Shadab has done far far far better than the other 2. Chahal is 30 runs over his career average, Yadav is 12 runs over his career average, whereas Shadab is 7 runs over his career average.
Since you are prone to hyperbole you have made claims about how rashid khan and imran tahir are also better: both have gone well over their career averages in this world cup.
Given the thread is about the world cup we can objectively say that Shadab has done better than Chahal or Yadav at this world cup. Thats all there is to say at this point.

 

[hur rizvi]

I am not really sure about chahal, he is just a regular leggie and his first class stats are abysmal

Kuldeep has novelty factor and has already started going down hill

Shadab might not be great as of now but I sincerely think a first class season and time with good spin coach can do wonders to his game. Potential is immense

 

[Pete Rose]

Whereas Shadab plays on dry, spin friendly UAE wickets. Time and again against good players of spin he's exposed - see his record vs India.

What does it say about Chahal who averages 66.5 vs. Pakistan in odi's and 110 vs England and 6o vs Bangladesh?

 

[Pete Rose]

I am not really sure about chahal, he is just a regular leggie and his first class stats are abysmal

Kuldeep has novelty factor and has already started going down hill

Shadab might not be great as of now but I sincerely think a first class season and time with good spin coach can do wonders to his game. Potential is immense

my opinion is that with hafeez and malik playing in the team Imad and Shahab have not gotten enough opportunities to contribute. With Malik dropped this world cup Imad has really stepped up. I expect the same to happen to Shadab once hafeez is dropped.

 

[hur rizvi]

my opinion is that with hafeez and malik playing in the team Imad and Shahab have not gotten enough opportunities to contribute. With Malik dropped this world cup Imad has really stepped up. I expect the same to happen to Shadab once hafeez is dropped.

Shadab was ok in WC. He contributed to almost all our wins. Leg spinners take time to develop, we need to be patient with him. It’s not as if his performances are atrocious

 

[Pete Rose]

Shadab was ok in WC. He contributed to almost all our wins. Leg spinners take time to develop, we need to be patient with him. It’s not as if his performances are atrocious

If bowling average is the metric to use (assuming a minimum of 5 wickets) he did better than chahal, yadav, tahir, rashid.
In this world cup these other 4 spinners not only averaged higher than shadab but also their wickets came at an average which is at most 40 points above their career average and at least 12 points above their career average.

 

[Mamoon]

Given that all three have played about a similar number of games (i would argue shadab's is still lesser exposure given he has played ten fewer one-dayers). A few points to run through
Chahal averages 26.35, Yadav averages 23.96, and Shadab 29: at an aggregate level thats pretty notwithstanding your thousand word essays on the subject.
This world cup was the first true test of all three spinners - an that metric I would say Shadab has done far far far better than the other 2. Chahal is 30 runs over his career average, Yadav is 12 runs over his career average, whereas Shadab is 7 runs over his career average.
Since you are prone to hyperbole you have made claims about how rashid khan and imran tahir are also better: both have gone well over their career averages in this world cup.
Given the thread is about the world cup we can objectively say that Shadab has done better than Chahal or Yadav at this world cup. Thats all there is to say at this point.

I don’t need to write a thousand word essay to dismiss the paper argument that Shadab is comparable to Kuldeep and Chahal.

You claimed Shadab critics don’t have numbers on their side but I gave you their respective numbers against the top sides.

You can call it cherry picking, but perhaps you can follow your own advice when dismissing the players that you don’t like and their performances against teams that you don’t rate.

The World Cup was not the first true test because you want it to be - all thre have two years of performances and Shadab pales in comparison.

Nonetheless, people are free to fixate with the World Cup if they want to convince themselves that Shadab is at the same level as the Indian duo.

 

[Pete Rose]

I don’t need to write a thousand word essay to dismiss the paper argument that Shadab is comparable to Kuldeep and Chahal.

You claimed Shadab critics don’t have numbers on their side but I gave you their respective numbers against the top sides.

You can call it cherry picking, but perhaps you can follow your own advice when dismissing the players that you don’t like and their performances against teams that you don’t rate.

The World Cup was not the first true test because you want it to be - all thre have two years of performances and Shadab pales in comparison.

Nonetheless, people are free to fixate with the World Cup if they want to convince themselves that Shadab is at the same level as the Indian duo.

Thread is about world cup. the essay thread is elsewhere on the forum.

 

[Xoib]

Thread is about world cup. the essay thread is elsewhere on the forum.

Exactly I don't know why his rant was needed in this thread when the thread title clearly states we are comparing their world cup stats

 

[ManFan]

One factor could be that Kul-Cha have each other as support while Shadab is a lone spinner on his team.

The fast bowlers besides Amir and Shaheen (later stages) have been expensive.

 

[Hamza_]

Chahal is garbage

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Kul-Cha have done zilch for their team this WC.

Bumrah/Shami and BK did all the heavy work.

Shadab has picked important wickets in key Pak wins.

That Afghan leggie was destroyed by Morgan, he now knows what's up.

I was impressed by that NZ spinner tho!

 

[Usman Chadda]

Thread is about world cup. the essay thread is elsewhere on the forum.

This poster believes ODI rankings should decide semi-finals qualification. You are expecting too much of his intelligence.

 

[Mamoon]

This poster believes ODI rankings should decide semi-finals qualification. You are expecting too much of his intelligence.

Wrong. That is not what I said.

My point is that when two teams are level on points, the rankings should decide which teams goes through instead of NRR. The reason why I feel that should be the case is that it will add context to bilateral ODI cricket and add meaning to rankings.

It is a good way of putting an end to “JAMODIs” and encouraging team to strive for consistency, which should be rewarded.

You or anyone else is free to dissect and criticize my argument, but countering it by calling it stupid or unintelligent exposes the fact that you don’t really have a proper counter in the first place.

It seems to bug you because Pakistan are simply not good and competitive enough to maintain a high ranking in ODIs, so this system is always going to work against them.

 

[Mamoon]

Thread is about world cup. the essay thread is elsewhere on the forum.

Sure, if you want a myopic outlook on the capabilities of these three bowlers, I will leave you to your delusions.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Wrong. That is not what I said.

My point is that when two teams are level on points, the rankings should decide which teams goes through instead of NRR. The reason why I feel that should be the case is that it will add context to bilateral ODI cricket and add meaning to rankings.

It is a good way of putting an end to “JAMODIs” and encouraging team to strive for consistency, which should be rewarded.

You or anyone else is free to dissect and criticize my argument, but countering it by calling it stupid or unintelligent exposes the fact that you don’t really have a proper counter in the first place.

It seems to bug you because Pakistan are simply not good and competitive enough to maintain a high ranking in ODIs, so this system is always going to work against them.

There were proper counters in that thread, which only ended up with the inevitable flimsy criticism on Pakistan from your side.

It's futile to engage in discussion with deranged fools like you. That's a harsh truth, but ab kya karein

 

[Mamoon]

There were proper counters in that thread, which only ended up with the inevitable flimsy criticism on Pakistan from your side.

It's futile to engage in discussion with deranged fools like you. That's a harsh truth, but ab kya karein

They weren’t from your side. All you ever did was either call it stupid and dumb of whatever. That is not the proper way of using a discussion forum. Anyway, it is your choice and we should respect the thread topic.

 

[Usman Chadda]

They weren’t from your side. All you ever did was either call it stupid and dumb of whatever. That is not the proper way of using a discussion forum. Anyway, it is your choice and we should respect the thread topic.

Yeah, my replies to your posts will usually be on similar lines on this discussion forum. However, other respectable posters did receive proper counters.

Agreed. The topic straight-up mentions the three spinners' performance in the World Cup only. Time for you to respect the thread topic.

 

[Pakhs]

There were a couple of Indian fans who were saying kuldeep and chahal can take pitch out of the equation like warne did hope they got a reality check. As for Shadab he actually out bowled both of them in this WC but more so because others had even worst WC.

 

[Mujtaba2900]

Main reason for This thread was to Highlight That shadab isn't performing as badly as people's were complaining
But We definitely need a genuine spinner. This Wrist spinner Mantra failed For Every Team in this WC
Which Is also Highlighted by the Performances
Of Mohammad Nabi,Santner,and Mujeeb,Mehdy even jadeja in His Match against new Zealand
Asghar or Gohar one of them is must for our team

 

[Pete Rose]

Main reason for This thread was to Highlight That shadab isn't performing as badly as people's were complaining
But We definitely need a genuine spinner. This Wrist spinner Mantra failed For Every Team in this WC
Which Is also Highlighted by the Performances
Of Mohammad Nabi,Santner,and Mujeeb,Mehdy even jadeja in His Match against new Zealand
Asghar or Gohar one of them is must for our team

We need not ape things for the sake of. Our bowling attack composition is different.

 

[zarak]

Brilliant post. However, brace yourself for the "he is 20", "he takes important wickets", and "other spinners failed also" arguments. Shadab is an average player who has been fast-tracked as if he is Wasim. There is no substitute for domestic experience, even if the standard of domestic cricket isn't great.

Also helps if the batting unit piles on 350 instead of 250

 

[ak619]

Kuldeep was totally out of form in this WC. So we can keep him aside as he is comfortably 3rd best among the 3 in this WC.

But I'm surprised that so many people seem convinced that Shadab actually had a better WC than Chahal.

Anybody who saw all games can easily tell which bowler looked more threatening. And it certainly wasn't Mr Khan.

Plus, Chahal's 12 wickets to Shadab's 9 kind of kills the debate right there, doesn't it?

 

[ak619]

Given that all three have played about a similar number of games (i would argue shadab's is still lesser exposure given he has played ten fewer one-dayers). A few points to run through
Chahal averages 26.35, Yadav averages 23.96, and Shadab 29: at an aggregate level thats pretty notwithstanding your thousand word essays on the subject.
This world cup was the first true test of all three spinners - an that metric I would say Shadab has done far far far better than the other 2. Chahal is 30 runs over his career average, Yadav is 12 runs over his career average, whereas Shadab is 7 runs over his career average.
Since you are prone to hyperbole you have made claims about how rashid khan and imran tahir are also better: both have gone well over their career averages in this world cup.
Given the thread is about the world cup we can objectively say that Shadab has done better than Chahal or Yadav at this world cup. Thats all there is to say at this point.

Stupidest logic I've come across on PP.

A mediocre spinner has had a mediocre WC so he must be better than than a good spinner who had a mediocre WC.

 

[Abdullah719]

Stupidest logic I've come across on PP.

A mediocre spinner has had a mediocre WC so he must be better than than a good spinner who had a mediocre WC.

There's a difference between 'he has done better' and 'he is better', perhaps you misread the post.

 

[Pete Rose]

Stupidest logic I've come across on PP.

A mediocre spinner has had a mediocre WC so he must be better than than a good spinner who had a mediocre WC.

Random poster enters thread comparing performance of leg spinners at World Cup, drops his juice pack on his lap, and the complains to manager that he wants his money back.

 

[ak619]

There's a difference between 'he has done better' and 'he is better', perhaps you misread the post.

If that's the case, it seems clear to me that the bowler who has picked 12 wickets is objectively better than the one who has picked 9. Maybe you look at it differently.

 

[Titan24]

Kuldeep and Chahal have only played 8-10 more ODIs than Shadab. Shadab has now played 41 ODIs and 5 Tests so I don't know how long we can keep clutching onto this inexperience defence.

A SR of 67 is terrible no matter where you bat, but especially if you're coming in at 7 or 8. Has Shadab produced a SINGLE valuable batting contribution in ODIs since debuting ? As for utility in all three facets - this is the same defence used to justify Hafeez and Malik's long and mediocre careers, that they provide balance as they're all rounders etc when these average bits and pieces players take the spot of a specialist who's more likely to perform consistently.

Regarding Tahir and Rashid, a bowling average in the mid 30s for a wrist spinner is decent when you play your home games on non-turning wickets. Whereas Shadab plays on dry, spin friendly UAE wickets. Time and again against good players of spin he's exposed - see his record vs India.

Kuldeep has played around 22 matches in sub continent which becomes roughly 50% of the total matches he has played and he currently averages around 24 overall with the ball.

Shadab has played around 12 matches in sub continent with impressive record against Srl and NZ (Asia cup wasnt that good, he averaged 35) which makes it roughly around 25% of his matches in sub continent and he has overall average of 29.

Yes Kuldeep was really good against SA in SA and that has inflated his average to an extent as he took 17 wickets at average of around 13-14. South Africans werent able to read him from hand and same think happened in NZ when they first played him, he averaged around 15 in that series.

Other than the two series for Kudleep which I have mentioned, he hasnt exactly set the stage on fire and in sub continent Shadab has better average though not by a lot and he has just played 12 matches.

Kuldeep is not a surprise anymore as he was a year or two ago so his stats in the last two series itself are reflective of that which include world cup as well.

Not saying that Shadab is good and Kuldeep is poor but if my estimation is correct when and if Shadab's matches in subontinent get close to the 50% of his total matches where Kuldeep is at the moment we will see Shadab's average getting closer to Kuldeep supported by the fact that Kuldeep's inflated average will deteriorate a bit too with no surprise package anymore unless he develops something completely new.

Again not saying Shadab is the next coming of Warne but just saying Kuldeep isnt as well. Surely there are better spinners available to Pak and should be inducted in the side especially when next WC is in India. However, in my opinion Shadab should be kept in the LOIs squad as well unless he deteriorates as you dont want to drop someone who gets you wickets of Roy, Root, Williamson, Markham etc in WC at crucial junctures.

 

[Titan24]

To back my previous post in reply to Markhor and to discuss overall record of the spinners in discussion further:

Chahal




Kuldeep




That SA series was an anomaly for both these wrist spinners as I have never seen a team giving 33 wickets at average of less than 15 out of their total of 60 wickets in 6 match ODI series.

Anyways I cant take anything away from both of Chahal's and Kuldeep's performance against SA however if that series is taken out of their record their stats become pretty mediocre overall as well as those hyped stats against top 4 teams.

 

[Mobashir]

What is the point? Kuldeep and Chahal are world class spinners who had an average tournament, while Shadab is an average spinner who had an average tournament. So what do we do? Do we praise Shadab for performing to his usual mediocre level?

As always, you are completely wrong and hypping your indiand players. You are most probably the bigest embarassement for indians posters on this forum.

 

[shamaan]

As always, you are completely wrong and hypping your indiand players. You are most probably the bigest embarassement for indians posters on this forum.

He needs to slap him self so that he wakes up.