Shaheen Shah Afridi and Naseem Shah: The Future of Pakistan's Bowling

[Pacy with wisdom]

Fully agree. We have so many bowlers that if, God forbid, something happens to these boys because of workload, it'll be entirely because of inept management.

Akif can be another test match contender if he gets his runup angle sorted out and starts using his non bowling arm much better.
I believe he is extremely gifted with a very quick arm as well as powerful wrists which despite a technically weak action allow him to bring the ball back into the right handers.


Dilbar, if he gets his fitness sorted out is another elite bowling talent. The amount of arm speed he generates from that run up is unheard of. I really want him to get his auxiliary issues fixed including his fielding, as well as his eyesight. Time for him to get a laser eye surgery done.

Of all the new bowlers, husnain is the least talented.
The guy just doesn't have a repeatable action and really labours to the crease. He is also not a natural wicket taker and relies more on defensive bowling skills. It will take him a while before he can be test ready.

 

[pratiktc]

Abbas is very critical. He will keep things tight and bowl the workhorse spells to keep youngsters fresh. He should prepare for close to 25 ovs of bowling each day

 

[MenInG]

Michael Vaughan in an interview about Naseem and Shaheen Shah:

"We are probably talking about the new Wasim and Waqar in five or six years’ time, with the amount of cricket that they are going to play together"

 

[Bewal Express]

Michael Vaughan in an interview about Naseem and Shaheen Shah:

"We are probably talking about the new Wasim and Waqar in five or six years’ time, with the amount of cricket that they are going to play together"

I hope its not another false dawn-Injuries, desire, intelligence and bookies could all get in the way.

 

[PakLFC]

He is not in league of these two.
But he will still be in the plans for Loi cricket.

Few years back he was set to be a legend. Our bowlers no longer last the test of time.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

Few years back he was set to be a legend. Our bowlers no longer last the test of time.

No he wasn't. He is a very good bowler but unfortunately doesn’t have the skillset for all conditions mainly because of his short height, and low release.
He has great fast twitch fibres and gets the ball to skid and tail in with the old ball which makes him very effective on low and rough surfaces. However, on true ones with a bit of bounce where there is no sideways movement, he comes onto the bat very nicely.
Imo, he should work on being a bowling allrounder, because he clearly has batting talent but doesn't rate himself as a batsman.
That way, his utility wiill become very high in LOI cricket.

 

[aloo paratha]

Few years back he was set to be a legend. Our bowlers no longer last the test of time.

Nobody said he'd be a legend.

 

[PakLFC]

No he wasn't. He is a very good bowler but unfortunately doesn’t have the skillset for all conditions mainly because of his short height, and low release.
He has great fast twitch fibres and gets the ball to skid and tail in with the old ball which makes him very effective on low and rough surfaces. However, on true ones with a bit of bounce where there is no sideways movement, he comes onto the bat very nicely.
Imo, he should work on being a bowling allrounder, because he clearly has batting talent but doesn't rate himself as a batsman.
That way, his utility wiill become very high in LOI cricket.

Oh yes I remember how he was being talked up as being the next big thing. I also thought we could have another Waqar Younis on our hands here, he was similar in some ways. Of course then he fell in love with an Indian that seems to have ruined his career. Not saying he was gonna be a star in England yet I sense he has faded away in all forms of the game. Also he seemed to be a capable lower ordr batsman. He simply does not appear determined enough to become a top player like Mo Amir This is also to [MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION]

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Oh yes I remember how he was being talked up as being the next big thing. I also thought we could have another Waqar Younis on our hands here, he was similar in some ways. Of course then he fell in love with an Indian that seems to have ruined his career. Not saying he was gonna be a star in England yet I sense he has faded away in all forms of the game. Also he seemed to be a capable lower ordr batsman. He simply does not appear determined enough to become a top player like Mo Amir This is also to [MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION]

Short height, low release, average pace, why would anyone think he was the next Waqar Younis? There are three leagues of a difference between Hasan Ali and Naseem Shah.

Hasan Ali also achieved peak height after the Champions Trophy and though it was true he performed well, it was in helpful conditions and the memorable bowling moments of that tournament were Amir’s, not his. He ascended the ladder to number 1 ODI bowler during this purple patch but he just didn’t have the ingredients to be a consistent world beater.

Barring injuries, Naseem does have all the ingredients.

 

[PakLFC]

Short height, low release, average pace, why would anyone think he was the next Waqar Younis? There are three leagues of a difference between Hasan Ali and Naseem Shah.

Hasan Ali also achieved peak height after the Champions Trophy and though it was true he performed well, it was in helpful conditions and the memorable bowling moments of that tournament were Amir’s, not his. He ascended the ladder to number 1 ODI bowler during this purple patch but he just didn’t have the ingredients to be a consistent world beater.

Barring injuries, Naseem does have all the ingredients.

Waqar wasn't the tallest either and Hasan too had a slingy action. So Hasan's peak was at the age of 24 or something and now he's finished!? Only way to find out if he still has it is to play him in all conditions. To say his bowling only suits certain conditions without trying others doesn't convince me. The problem seems to be his attitude more then ability in the sense that he probably became very wealthy at a young age losing his love for the game. We don't have the players who seem to last anymore.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Waqar wasn't the tallest either and Hasan too had a slingy action. So Hasan's peak was at the age of 24 or something and now he's finished!? Only way to find out if he still has it is to play him in all conditions. To say his bowling only suits certain conditions without trying others doesn't convince me. The problem seems to be his attitude more then ability in the sense that he probably became very wealthy at a young age losing his love for the game. We don't have the players who seem to last anymore.

Well, he had a series of injuries and like you said his attitude seems through the roof. To me that means he’s very much finished especially if there are replacements available (and there are a lot). Shaheen and Naseem will both always make the team over him unless one of them is injured.

The two Shahs are indeed our future!

 

[PakLFC]

Well, he had a series of injuries and like you said his attitude seems through the roof. To me that means he’s very much finished especially if there are replacements available (and there are a lot). Shaheen and Naseem will both always make the team over him unless one of them is injured.

The two Shahs are indeed our future!

Don't count our chickens too soon. Naseem Shah has not done anything worthy for us so I am not jumping around yet. We always end up disappointed with Amir, Asif and Hasan being a few examples. Who is the other Shah that excites you? Waqar despite many injuries came back many times. Hasan just doesn't have what it takes.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Don't count our chickens too soon. Naseem Shah has not done anything worthy for us so I am not jumping around yet. We always end up disappointed with Amir, Asif and Hasan being a few examples. Who is the other Shah that excites you? Waqar despite many injuries came back many times. Hasan just doesn't have what it takes.

Thing is, I do have a genuine reason for rating Naseem higher than Hasan. Regarding Amir and Asif, their 2010 versions are to this day rated as some of the best bowlers we never got to see long enough of. But they are still rated highly.

If Naseem falls prey to spot fixing or an injury, god forbid, I will still rate him highly! Of course, I do want to see him actually perform against top opposition first. But it’s a disservice to compare him to Hasan Ali.

Lastly, I think what most posters mean when they say that these two are our future is that, not only are they good, but the second string is pretty bad. That’s why people are happy about Naseem - he’s head and shoulders above the likes of Hasnain, Akif, Musa Khan, Ehsan Adil, Sameen Gul, Amir Khan, and all the other names.

I dislike it myself when people hype Naseem to the moon as it is unfair on him as well. But I do think he is something special if he continues developing the way he is.

 

[aloo paratha]

Oh yes I remember how he was being talked up as being the next big thing. I also thought we could have another Waqar Younis on our hands here, he was similar in some ways. Of course then he fell in love with an Indian that seems to have ruined his career. Not saying he was gonna be a star in England yet I sense he has faded away in all forms of the game. Also he seemed to be a capable lower ordr batsman. He simply does not appear determined enough to become a top player like Mo Amir This is also to [MENTION=138508]aloo paratha[/MENTION]

I don't think anybody was ever expecting him to be a legend. Yes, people thought he'd be a much better bowler than what he has turned out to be. Also quite laughable to think Amir has the determination to become a top player He quit the most important format of the game.

 

[PakLFC]

I don't think anybody was ever expecting him to be a legend. Yes, people thought he'd be a much better bowler than what he has turned out to be. Also quite laughable to think Amir has the determination to become a top player He quit the most important format of the game.

I expected him to be a legend Aamir also before retiring was talked up as being a future all time great!

 

[Firebat]

Shaheen starts the England first innings with a near perfect over! Wicket maiden, sending Burns on his way back for a duck.

 

[Majid Khan]

Shaheen starts the England first innings with a near perfect over! Wicket maiden, sending Burns on his way back for a duck.

Good start by Shaheen but these are clearly conditions heavily in favour of bowling , and if anything maybe this is the opportunity for Shaheen, Naseem and Abbas to rip through a batting line up - because if you can’t do that in these conditions then when?

 

[Firebat]

Fantastic bowling by Shaheen:

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[Artaxerxes]

Hasnain,Akif,Dilbar and Rauf also have potential to become good bowlers.They have good pace but need more experience.

 

[Saj]

Another hour or so today would have been very interesting. Pakistan's pacers would have been licking their lips after seeing the conditions, sadly it wasn't to be.

 

[Bewal Express]

My Usual worry for left armer pacers is the lack of swing into the right handers and SSA has learnt it and that is not easy as bowlers like Wahab would testify. He needs to work on getting it to go a little later and setting up the batsman with the one that goes straight on or cut away like Curran did to Abid. He also needs a captain that understands that young bowlers confidence gets hit when they go for runs so having square leg back would help him to attack the stumps without fearing runs. Overall coming on nicely.

 

[Bewal Express]

Another hour or so today would have been very interesting. Pakistan's pacers would have been licking their lips after seeing the conditions, sadly it wasn't to be.

It's the type of wicket you could see England getting rolled over for 140.

 

[Savak]

Shaheen has developed the in swinger which is great but he no longer swings or seams it away from the right hander which is now making him predictable. Need to be able to swing the ball both ways to be lethal

 

[Fahdi]

My Usual worry for left armer pacers is the lack of swing into the right handers and SSA has learnt it and that is not easy as bowlers like Wahab would testify. He needs to work on getting it to go a little later and setting up the batsman with the one that goes straight on or cut away like Curran did to Abid. He also needs a captain that understands that young bowlers confidence gets hit when they go for runs so having square leg back would help him to attack the stumps without fearing runs. Overall coming on nicely.

Shaheen has developed the in swinger which is great but he no longer swings or seams it away from the right hander which is now making him predictable. Need to be able to swing the ball both ways to be lethal

Same observation. The outswinger came naturally to him and got him a lot of wickets but seems to have disappeared. He needs to bowl it more often. Last match the last ball of the game of which Woakes got an edge was I think the only outswinger that I can recall him bowling, and that was a very good delivery which on another day might have produced a wicket. Batsmen are clearly setting themselves up for his inswing this series he needs to read the game better and learn to outfox them.

With his height another effective weapon would be to extract seam movement using the wobble seam, like Abbas and Broad do. Would be a great change up.

 

[Third Man]

Same observation. The outswinger came naturally to him and got him a lot of wickets but seems to have disappeared. He needs to bowl it more often. Last match the last ball of the game of which Woakes got an edge was I think the only outswinger that I can recall him bowling, and that was a very good delivery which on another day might have produced a wicket. Batsmen are clearly setting themselves up for his inswing this series he needs to read the game better and learn to outfox them.

With his height another effective weapon would be to extract seam movement using the wobble seam, like Abbas and Broad do. Would be a great change up.

Yeah, I've noticed that as well. But it's still early stages of his development, and this sort of thing tends to happen. Young bowlers focus too much on a new skill and in trying to perfect it, kind of lose another skill, but it comes back.

I think the wobble seam will take a bit of time if he has that in mind. It took Anderson probably about a decade to learn that. Shaheen might learn it much quicker, say with the help of Abbas, but learning these skills requires a lot of patience and persistence, and for the near future, he needs to learn to bowl the two swing deliveries reliably and consistently, and then later think about adding new skills. His control is already very good.

 

[Snowflake]

Another hour or so today would have been very interesting. Pakistan's pacers would have been licking their lips after seeing the conditions, sadly it wasn't to be.

The umpires wanted to make sure the English batsmens fragile confidence is kept intact. It was unbelievable how quickly they wanted to get off

 

[aloo paratha]

One slight problem Shaheen has is that while he is swinging the ball, the ball isn't landing on the seam, rather on the rough side of the ball. This means he won't be getting much movement off the seam, if at all, and if he does, it'll only be further into the right hander. If he can get the seam more upright, he'll still be swinging the ball in but there's a chance that it will nip away off the seam which becomes almost unplayable.

Also I feel he's nullifying his straight ball by bowling it way too wide. It can be seen in the video where Nick Knight analyzes his bowling (I think the video is in another thread). He needs to bowl it on a 4th-5th stump line so that batsmen play at it because it could be the inswinger. Currently he bowls it so wide, it doesn't matter whether it's an inswinger or not because it'll never even come near the stumps.

 

[hitthestump]

I hope Naseem gets the first over instead of Abbas tomorrow. The match might be cooked but there's plenty of experience points available for him and Shaheen.

If England are only a couple down towards tea then we need to see our part timers roll over a few too. I want to see how dangerous Shan's seam up deliveries might be in the right conditions.

 

[Firebat]

Good consistent 140+ kph bowling from Naseem, but all very full, nothing utilising his pace for some short stuff.

 

[Fahdi]

Good consistent 140+ kph bowling from Naseem, but all very full, nothing utilising his pace for some short stuff.

There's also been a lack of swing from him. I think he got a lot more shape back in Pakistan. Not good to see in England.

Also both Naseem and Shaheen need to learn the art of setting up batsmen. Anderson and Broad are masters of it. There is such a thing as being too consistent with the length. A simple setup Broad uses is a couple of balls back of a length, maybe a short ball and then fuller. Pushes the batsman back and then draws him forward again with the aim that his footwork will be just a bit off.

Unfortunately there is no one there to guide them on the field now that Amir is retired. He knew the art of setting batsmen up, probably picked up from Asif. Abbas knows as well but from my judgement his wiles seem limited to his own style of bowling.

 

[Fahdi]

One slight problem Shaheen has is that while he is swinging the ball, the ball isn't landing on the seam, rather on the rough side of the ball. This means he won't be getting much movement off the seam, if at all, and if he does, it'll only be further into the right hander. If he can get the seam more upright, he'll still be swinging the ball in but there's a chance that it will nip away off the seam which becomes almost unplayable.

Also I feel he's nullifying his straight ball by bowling it way too wide. It can be seen in the video where Nick Knight analyzes his bowling (I think the video is in another thread). He needs to bowl it on a 4th-5th stump line so that batsmen play at it because it could be the inswinger. Currently he bowls it so wide, it doesn't matter whether it's an inswinger or not because it'll never even come near the stumps.

He could also take a leaf out of Boult's book and develop a more round arm delivery to add to his arsenal. That would allow him to release the ball from right on top of the stumps, maximising the effectiveness of both his inswing and outswing. Wasim also used to vary the angle of his arm. Guys like Starc and Mitchel Johnson are naturally more round arm.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Please, our test pace bowling attack can't have 2 bachay who don't have the IQ for test bowling. Play Shaheen to develop and teach him, but Naseem is way too raw.

 

[Savak]

Naseem in domestic cricket opens the bowling with the new ball. I wonder if he is being neutralized by coming in first change

 

[Salman4.]

Naseem in domestic cricket opens the bowling with the new ball. I wonder if he is being neutralized by coming in first change

Which opening bowler do you want him to replace? Considering Abbas isn't that effective with the old ball and Shaheen swings the ball most?

 

[Varun]

Naseem in domestic cricket opens the bowling with the new ball. I wonder if he is being neutralized by coming in first change

Let's start the excuses. The bowling equivalent of "batting too high in the order" / "batting too low in the order" / "the coach doesn't like him" etc.

 

[ravisurya]

Does Pakistan have the most talented fast bowling duo in the world?

I know they didn't have a great day in the field but both these guys are extremely young and have all the tools to run through batting line ups especially the criminally under rated Afridi.

I see these guys going past the 400 test wickets mark in their career.

 

[Savak]

Which opening bowler do you want him to replace? Considering Abbas isn't that effective with the old ball and Shaheen swings the ball most?

Abbas is very predictable imo and England have played him better as the series has gone on knowing the role he has. I would have given both Naseem and Shaheen the new ball as aggressive wickets up front is the key.

 

[Firebat]

Michael Holding did a great piece of analysis of Shaheen's bowling yesterday, highlighting his inexperience. He was trying ball after ball to swing it into the right hander with the old ball but it wouldn't swing and went across the batsman.

Then, with the new ball, he was finally able to swing it and got too excited that he was starting the line of the ball too straight and was swinging it down the leg side. Needs to have greater awareness and control during different states of the game, when adapting from old ball to new ball. This will come with experience, Holding says.

 

[Kenpachi]

Let's start the excuses. The bowling equivalent of "batting too high in the order" / "batting too low in the order" / "the coach doesn't like him" etc.

Exactly. First change is at 10 overs, the bowl is still swinging. Any excuse to alleviate any blame for his inexperience

 

[naseem]

Let's start the excuses. The bowling equivalent of

"batting too high in the order" / "batting too low in the order" / "the coach doesn't like him" etc.

He is just 17......he would improve.....the learning curve of these guys r pretty high

 

[naseem]

They r needed 2 b properly groomed and trained aand no way better than giving them exposure.......even experience bowlers from subcontinent could manage the dukes properly either got carried away by conditions or by the swing.........they wil come good ..........and its 4 better of them and Pak and global cricket......

 

[Usman Chadda]

Neither are good Test bowlers, but that's expected given how many matches they both have played.

The hype needs to be controlled, simple as that.

 

[Jeetlodil]

Future rahenge kaafi time tak. When they become present is what will matter

 

[Usman Chadda]

Future rahenge kaafi time tak. When they become present is what will matter

These two haven't played many games, the hype is unfair on both.

It's okay to be excited, but to consistently tell us how they will blow away top quality opposition is not on.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

The future Ashok Dinda and Praveen Kumar.

 

[Majid Khan]

These two haven't played many games, the hype is unfair on both.

It's okay to be excited, but to consistently tell us how they will blow away top quality opposition is not on.

You expect fast bowlers playing test matches to be good enough to win test matches for their team TODAY, not in 10 years time. This is not exactly an unreasonable expectation that fans have , is it? If they are not capable of winning matches today then ideally they should not be playing test cricket.

At the same time looking at teams like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka and India in the past , and Pakistan in this era - it’s true some teams have fast bowlers that are not good enough to be match winners, but then we should be able to accept that reality and the fact that they are mediocre but they are the best you have.

 

[Firebat]

Nasser Hussain: "How impressed have you been with Naseem?"

Michael Holding: "Think he has been pretty good, I think both himself and Shaheen have bowled well in this series, but not all the time getting the results that they deserve, but when you consider the age of these guys, I think they have been brilliant"

"What [Naseem] has is pretty good control, I wouldn't say he has the perfect action, there are a few things that I would like to see adjusted a bit, but he has good control, you don't see him shooting balls down the leg side on a regular basis, he's just about off stump getting the ball to do a bit in either direction, certainly very promising"

 

[Jeetlodil]

You expect fast bowlers playing test matches to be good enough to win test matches for their team TODAY, not in 10 years time. This is not exactly an unreasonable expectation that fans have , is it? If they are not capable of winning matches today then ideally they should not be playing test cricket.

At the same time looking at teams like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka and India in the past , and Pakistan in this era - it’s true some teams have fast bowlers that are not good enough to be match winners, but then we should be able to accept that reality and the fact that they are mediocre but they are the best you have.

Well said. This future thing is a selling point for faliure

 

[Kaka4pope]

Missing a bit of culture in the attack without Amir or Hassan Ali, both good on these decks - Shaheen and Naseem are learning on the job..

 

[Titan24]

Problem with fans is that they want to completely eliminate any development and they expect world class performers from the word go. I am afraid thats not how it works. As a reference Mohammad Amir averaged 41 in his first 7 tests.

There are countless other examples from every country and some people expect that someone coming into a test team at young age can start delivering at the same level as some more experienced bowers going around.

 

[hitthestump]

Nasser Hussain: "How impressed have you been with Naseem?"

Michael Holding: "Think he has been pretty good, I think both himself and Shaheen have bowled well in this series, but not all the time getting the results that they deserve, but when you consider the age of these guys, I think they have been brilliant"

"What [Naseem] has is pretty good control, I wouldn't say he has the perfect action, there are a few things that I would like to see adjusted a bit, but he has good control, you don't see him shooting balls down the leg side on a regular basis, he's just about off stump getting the ball to do a bit in either direction, certainly very promising"

Holding obviously the right person to ask in this context. It's quite clear he believes that these 2 have potential, but aren't the finished article yet.

Where Pakistan go from here is anyone's guess. Either we keep trying to realise that potential at the highest level or we send Naseem to FC for a few years to make those adjustments that Holding has spotted.

In my view there's hardly room at test level for one developing bowler, let alone 2. I can understand keeping Shaheen around now as he's been there long enough, but Naseem needs to play a few seasons of FC and maybe county cricket before being selected again.

 

[Cric_lover4487]

I am an Indian fan who is passionate fan of Pakistan bowling since childhood. I regret to say this bowling attack lacks aggression and fire. They just waiting for things to happen. Pakistan fans please kick out Azhar Ali and Misbah. You really need an aggressive captain and team management. I want to see Naseem who is ruthless and create fear in batsman like Johnson and Shoaib did. He is bowling in 135-140 kph

 

[Junaids]

Both Naseem and Shaheen have been damaged - like Amir in 2016 in England - by bowling in a 3 pacer attack.

They are bowling spells which are too long and with a spinner at the other end they get a 3 minute break between overs instead of 4 minutes.

Consequently they end up bowling around 134K instead of 138-142K if there was a fourth pacer.

Both would take more wickets in 12 overs per day at 138-142K than in 18 overs at 134K.

 

[Saj]

Got to have some sympathy for both.

Young lads thrown in at the deep end against a tough opponent and in conditions they are not familiar with.

A captain who frankly hasn't really helped them or got the best out of them and a batting unit that has by and large struggled.

Tough days - let's see if they sink or swim after this tour.

 

[Usman Chadda]

You expect fast bowlers playing test matches to be good enough to win test matches for their team TODAY, not in 10 years time. This is not exactly an unreasonable expectation that fans have , is it? If they are not capable of winning matches today then ideally they should not be playing test cricket.

At the same time looking at teams like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka and India in the past , and Pakistan in this era - it’s true some teams have fast bowlers that are not good enough to be match winners, but then we should be able to accept that reality and the fact that they are mediocre but they are the best you have.

The issue lies with the management putting both of them in the same team, and not preparing proper first-choice seam bowlers in the first place. Neither Shaheen nor Naseem are good enough to carry the bowling attack, with a handful FC games. It's just not fair and not logical at all, considering the brutal analysis that goes on in modern day cricket.

In our case, once Amir retired and Hasan got injured, our go to reaction was to have these talented bowlers literally thrown into the deep end and expect them to win Test matches for Pakistan. It's fine if you're playing Sri Lanka, Bangladesh or West Indies, but you will struggle against top level teams.

I agree with your last statement. We are in for a lot of tears till these lads become better (and that's a big IF too).

 

[Ami]

Its not their fault...good luck to them for keep coming back!
This is what happens when your attack, which in the recent past existed of Yasir, Abbas, Amir, Hasan, Wahab suddenly disappears and decides to call it a day.
So these 2 have had no option but to sink or swim, I'm pretty sure the shore is not too far away, just a few choppy waters ahead.
Good Luck.

 

[sweep_shot]

It's fine if you're playing Sri Lanka, Bangladesh or West Indies, but you will struggle against top level teams.

This is true. This same Naseem was manhandling Bangladesh (took a hat-trick also). Pakistan also looked like a heavyweight team against SL.

But, England are a different beast and you have to be at absolute best to beat them. Naseem probably isn't ready yet to face these top teams (Australia, England etc.).

 

[castortroy]

Both Naseem and Shaheen have been damaged - like Amir in 2016 in England - by bowling in a 3 pacer attack.

They are bowling spells which are too long and with a spinner at the other end they get a 3 minute break between overs instead of 4 minutes.

Consequently they end up bowling around 134K instead of 138-142K if there was a fourth pacer.

Both would take more wickets in 12 overs per day at 138-142K than in 18 overs at 134K.

Bowling with a spinner who isn't economical and consistently gets smashed for 200

 

[Ahmed216]

Both are too raw for test cricket atm. International cricket is not the stage to learn ur art. First prove urself as a consistent wicket taker in domestics.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Both need a lot of games under their belt.. getting them to play in highly competitive county circuit will really help them develop the requisite skills..

 

[Abdullah]

Got to have some sympathy for both.

Young lads thrown in at the deep end against a tough opponent and in conditions they are not familiar with.

A captain who frankly hasn't really helped them or got the best out of them and a batting unit that has by and large struggled.

Tough days - let's see if they sink or swim after this tour.

These 2 need to play every single test match.
It's funny how Sohail khan has so many fans when we know that he would not have been able to get out of bed for that 2nd morning. He averages 42 and is pushing 37 years of age.
Wahab Riaz is 36 and averages over 35 with the ball. ( And that average is only so because he could reverse swing the ball- which is not happening anymore)

Or do we want to see Imran khan in the team again!!

Absolutely laughable fans

These guys are not going to have great games each time out in all conditions. And guess what nobody does!!!
They have bowled with very good control and all the pundits have said great things. I was happy with the way the quicks bowled on the 2nd day given what happened on the first. I don't think any of our other squad bowlers would hold up like that.

Our team is at a stage where it needs to look at the process for now and the results will follow. How can people expect us to be the number one in the world when our first xi is about 200 test matches light in terms of experience compared to the top 6 test sides? And the ones who are experienced in our team behave like novices!
Yes it hurts we should have won the first game but that is down to leadership which is a separate issue. And everybody is on the bandwagon after one avg innings of bowling. Even great sides have conceded 500s in batting conditions, but there batsman stand up and give it back.

We are just a bunch of fickle fans!
We need to find one good batsman ( hopefully Haider Ali) and a good spinner , which has been a problem given our domestic wickets where avg scores are very low batting first. We need a leader and fighter as captain more importantly. Somebody who can make us greater than the sum of our parts.

Some vision from misbah would not go amiss either but I'm confident we have a good 6 7 players to build this team around

 

[Mamoon]

People who are saying that PCB and the fans put unfair pressure on Naseem by hyping him up should look at what Naseem himself had to say.

I like to see fear in batsmen’s eyes, I want to be top 3 in the world, I don’t know any English batsman‘a full name apart from Root, if English batsmen take me lightly it will be their loss etc. etc.

He is a talker who does not have the ability to walk the talk. He fully deserves this humiliation because he brought it on himself.

Another Pakistani player who is not half as good as he thinks.

 

[Abdullah]

Humiliation lol.
Calm down.
I don't mind guys who talk like that, or are we just happy with guys who can present a straighter bat when they are interviewed rathe than when they are in the pitch

 

[Majid Khan]

People who are saying that PCB and the fans put unfair pressure on Naseem by hyping him up should look at what Naseem himself had to say.

I like to see fear in batsmen’s eyes, I want to be top 3 in the world, I don’t know any English batsman‘a full name apart from Root, if English batsmen take me lightly it will be their loss etc. etc.

He is a talker who does not have the ability to walk the talk. He fully deserves this humiliation because he brought it on himself.

Another Pakistani player who is not half as good as he thinks.

Can’t disagree with that, as an international sportsman you need to walk the walk first and then talk.. or otherwise will leave yourself open to criticism and then take in on the chin when you get exposed by not living up to the expectations you have set.

The smarter way is to focus on your own game and deliver great performances, which speak for themselves and don’t even need you to come out and tell everyone that by the way that was a great performance from me, I’m seriously good!

 

[FreePalestine]

I am glad that the vast majority of fans here still want to support these two young bowlers. Maybe they will do it, maybe they will not, but we should support them and give them a chance to get better.

However, I don’t buy this idea that they cannot get better by playing more domestic cricket. They have hardly played any, so no harm in that, especially for Naseem.

I still think they both have a bright future for the Pakistan cricket team.

Shinwari is a bowler who has been hard done by. He should have played more test cricket by now.

Tough test match for all of us, and sometimes it is difficult in these situations to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I am going to continue to back these bowlers.

Shaheen has already shown a lot of improvement with his ability to bring the ball back in. But he has to continue to take wickets with his pace and bounce as well, which seems to have gone out of his game a bit because of our obsession with getting him to swing it back. So it is great that he is showing progress, but needs time to gain mastery over a range of skills and the nous required to know when to use which line of attack.

Naseem has raw talent. He will continue to improve even in domestic cricket. If he is not ready to carry a full workload at the international level, then he should be building up his strength in domestic cricket, not the national side. But, having said that, I don’t know what is actually going on with him, or how close he is to a break through. Overall, I am willing to give him time to improve and will not reject him just because of one bad performance. As someone has already said, Amir averaged in the mid 40’s when he came into intl cricket.

 

[HasanA]

Fact of the day: James Anderson made his intl debut 2 months before Naseem Shah was born

And James Anderson age is more than both Shaheen Shah and Naseem Shah ages combined. If shaheen and Naseem both keep playing together, at the rate with which pakistan is playing tests it will take 15 years for combined both shaheen and naseem to play as many test as James Anderson has played now

 

[BreadPakoda]

Agree. People unnecessarily criticizing him should try recalling what they were doing in their lives at 17.

On a different note, all the age related arguments by some posters here go out of the window when you look at the likes of Anderson and Broad. Such fitness in 30s. Inspiring characters.

 

[King_Kohli]

Which DOB you considrning?

What is the actual DOB of Naseem?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Naseem has the talent to overtake James Anderson. But his talent is raw right now.

 

[Kroll]

Naseem has the talent to overtake James Anderson. But his talent is raw right now.

On a motorway or single carriage road?

 

[MenInG]

Shane Warne, who played 15 Tests against Pakistan including three in 1994 in Pakistan, said:


“First of all it is fantastic to see Pakistan over here in England. They should have won the first Test.

“They are such an exciting team to watch. They are well captained by Azhar Ali and it was lovely to see the spinners, especially, Yasir Shah, doing well and the young fast bowlers, the 17-year-old (Naseem Shah) and the 20-year-old (Shaheen Shah Afridi).

“I think it is a very exciting time for Pakistan cricket and they are a very good side.”

 

[MMHS]

Interestingly, for marks out of 10, CricInfo has given Naseem 5.5, and Shaheen 5.0. The logic they used is that Naseem produced two gem of a ball to dismiss Pope & Root and he bowled more threading balls than Shaheen, which I think I agree. To me, Shaheen was the biggest disappointment of this series - not only he failed to make any impression (apart from taking the walking wicket of Burns in first spell), he actually was the main culprit of that 2nd innings (of first Test) melt down. With a bit of intelligence & experience, Naseem easily could have even tripled his wicket tally in this series, but Shaheen looked almost like a bowling machine shooting gun barrel straight balls as his stock delivery & whenever tried to bring it back for right-handers, he slanted down leg.

 

[shamaan]

Interestingly, for marks out of 10, CricInfo has given Naseem 5.5, and Shaheen 5.0. The logic they used is that Naseem produced two gem of a ball to dismiss Pope & Root and he bowled more threading balls than Shaheen, which I think I agree. To me, Shaheen was the biggest disappointment of this series - not only he failed to make any impression (apart from taking the walking wicket of Burns in first spell), he actually was the main culprit of that 2nd innings (of first Test) melt down. With a bit of intelligence & experience, Naseem easily could have even tripled his wicket tally in this series, but Shaheen looked almost like a bowling machine shooting gun barrel straight balls as his stock delivery & whenever tried to bring it back for right-handers, he slanted down leg.

Do you think conditions didnt suit shaheen as I didnt see any bowl that came in to the right hander or do you think he didnt get the Bateman up for the ins winger.new zealand should suit him as they are more bowler friendly wickets than england

 

[Xoib]

Interestingly, for marks out of 10, CricInfo has given Naseem 5.5, and Shaheen 5.0. The logic they used is that Naseem produced two gem of a ball to dismiss Pope & Root and he bowled more threading balls than Shaheen, which I think I agree. To me, Shaheen was the biggest disappointment of this series - not only he failed to make any impression (apart from taking the walking wicket of Burns in first spell), he actually was the main culprit of that 2nd innings (of first Test) melt down. With a bit of intelligence & experience, Naseem easily could have even tripled his wicket tally in this series, but Shaheen looked almost like a bowling machine shooting gun barrel straight balls as his stock delivery & whenever tried to bring it back for right-handers, he slanted down leg.

I do believe Naseem has a higher potential then Shaheen the only advantage Shaheen has over Naseem is his height and I believe there is too much ruckus over Naseem height in most team pictures he is same heightedbas as Abbas or Imran Khan and no one call them short Nasem has a stocky built with small legs which give the impression of shot height else he is 5 10 which is good enough if you bring skills in.
Talking of skills ironically was watching Anderson debut spell in test cricket and he reminded me of Nasem similar age around 20 good action but a bowler of great deliveries rather then a great bowler yet. I looked in to details his stats and it took anderson 5 years and 22 tests before he started getting any good but England could afford to nurture him as they had a relatively strong first choice attack and anderson mostly played from the bench and was able to build his bowling by bowling lots of County overs I am unsure whether Nasem will have the luxury.

 

[MMHS]

Do you think conditions didnt suit shaheen as I didnt see any bowl that came in to the right hander or do you think he didnt get the Bateman up for the ins winger.new zealand should suit him as they are more bowler friendly wickets than england

I think PAK needs a qualified professional fast bowling coach who’ll prepare pacers from fundamentals. Shaheen is slanting down the leg probably for this action & delivery stride while he has completely lost his inswingers (goes away from right handlers) which should have been his stock ball; but this one I’ll credited to amount of T20 overs he has bowled in young career - basically he has lost his grip on new ball. Burns was a walking wicket and he managed to touch Shaheen’s outswing (which is slanting down leg), but others were too comfortable. If he keeps on bowling like this, he won’t have a much better series in NZ. Yes, 5 wickets at 55 is part timer level bowling, he might improve on that stats but not much to put kiwis under pressure. He has to fix his stock ball first, then outswinger that start out side off of a right gander and holds its line to knock off stick, otherwise he might lose his spot in starting XI within a year or two. NZ wickets are seemers friendly in first innings - more precisely first four sessions and may be morning of day 3, after that it’s absolute belter - PAK won’t take 20 wickets in any of the three Tests, if bowling level remains same.

 

[MMHS]

I do believe Naseem has a higher potential then Shaheen the only advantage Shaheen has over Naseem is his height and I believe there is too much ruckus over Naseem height in most team pictures he is same heightedbas as Abbas or Imran Khan and no one call them short Nasem has a stocky built with small legs which give the impression of shot height else he is 5 10 which is good enough if you bring skills in.
Talking of skills ironically was watching Anderson debut spell in test cricket and he reminded me of Nasem similar age around 20 good action but a bowler of great deliveries rather then a great bowler yet. I looked in to details his stats and it took anderson 5 years and 22 tests before he started getting any good but England could afford to nurture him as they had a relatively strong first choice attack and anderson mostly played from the bench and was able to build his bowling by bowling lots of County overs I am unsure whether Nasem will have the luxury.

In his development stage, Anderson got some of the best fast bowling coaches around - Tory Coolie, Donald, Gibson, Saker .....PAK has WY, so finger crossed.

 

[shamaan]

I think PAK needs a qualified professional fast bowling coach who’ll prepare pacers from fundamentals. Shaheen is slanting down the leg probably for this action & delivery stride while he has completely lost his inswingers (goes away from right handlers) which should have been his stock ball; but this one I’ll credited to amount of T20 overs he has bowled in young career - basically he has lost his grip on new ball. Burns was a walking wicket and he managed to touch Shaheen’s outswing (which is slanting down leg), but others were too comfortable. If he keeps on bowling like this, he won’t have a much better series in NZ. Yes, 5 wickets at 55 is part timer level bowling, he might improve on that stats but not much to put kiwis under pressure. He has to fix his stock ball first, then outswinger that start out side off of a right gander and holds its line to knock off stick, otherwise he might lose his spot in starting XI within a year or two. NZ wickets are seemers friendly in first innings - more precisely first four sessions and may be morning of day 3, after that it’s absolute belter - PAK won’t take 20 wickets in any of the three Tests, if bowling level remains same.

Qualified professional coach like who ?

 

[MMHS]

Qualified professional coach like who ?

May be some English bowling coach with MCC Level 3 or 4 badge. Ottis Gibson could have been one.

 

[shamaan]

May be some English bowling coach with MCC Level 3 or 4 badge. Ottis Gibson could have been one.

We dont pay the big buckes no one will come to pakistan unless they average

 

[MenInG]

Younis Khan has stated that longer formats are important for Shaheen Shah Afridi and Naseem Shah.