Shahid Afridi versus Abdul Razzaq

[RagingJ]

This is a flawed assumption.

Why didn't he apply himself? Because he didn't have the mental strength.

Why didn't he have the mental strength? because some people have it and some don't. You cannot teach that to someone and that is part of the package which is labeled as 'talent'.

I keep hearing this nonsense that Dravid was not a talented player but he had a lot of determination and guts.

His concentration and unflappable temperament was part of his ability. That is massive talent which you cannot teach.

You could say it in that way too.

Just think both failed to deliver.

 

[Reverselap]

Afridi, being compared to Razzaq? I can't believe the laughable S/R use. 11 Afridis would make 340? Look at his average, in 10 wickets, he'd make 230. 11 Slower Razzaqs would make 240. How can one only look at S/R? Don't get how W63L35 can be so biased here, when he's able to see past Malik's hype. Closet fanboy, who didn't even post a lot on Afridi till that 76 against the Windies.

If Razzler had half the contacts and sources Afridi does, had the idea of selling interviews for free, but in exchange for good publicity, he'd be remembered as one of our greatest A/R, instead of this Tullaybaz Slogger

 

[Mamoon]

For Pakistani fans, Imran Nazir is very talented, Afridi is the most talented player world of cricket ever produced, Sami is talented fast bowler, Wahab is rare talent, Fawad Alam is talented, ....anybody who can hit boundaries with blind eyes and have speed is talented.

If you happened to decent looking, better looks, style, ...the talent is beyond the limit ( almost kind of fetish to them).

Yes. Sadly, for us, talent is restricted to your strokes only.

 

[eradicator]

Who needs Afridis useless S/R anyways ?

Razzaq can do everything that Afridi could but Afridi couldnt do everything that Razzaq can.

Tell me one knock of 50 or more played by Afrdi in a pressure filled chase, OTOH Razzaq arguably played the Best Ever Odi innings where he chased 50 runs with the last wicket.

Can we even expect Afridi to score 6 runs in last over with 1 wicket in hand ? Razzaq scored 16 against SA.

If Afridi had batted in Razaqs place then he would have been out during the 1st ball of the final over and match would have been over there itself.

So much for having a Higher S/R.

 

[Itachi]

i'l trade any indian player(s) for just 1 afridi.

Afridi is a LEADER.

Razzaq is a FOLLOWER.

Vast difference.

 

[zaid65]

Afridi, being compared to Razzaq? I can't believe the laughable S/R use. 11 Afridis would make 340? Look at his average, in 10 wickets, he'd make 230. 11 Slower Razzaqs would make 240. How can one only look at S/R? Don't get how W63L35 can be so biased here, when he's able to see past Malik's hype. Closet fanboy, who didn't even post a lot on Afridi till that 76 against the Windies.

If Razzler had half the contacts and sources Afridi does, had the idea of selling interviews for free, but in exchange for good publicity, he'd be remembered as one of our greatest A/R, instead of this Tullaybaz Slogger

As usual, after being humiliated and exposed, he has been disappeared.

His next move, he will come up with some anti-Indian thread ( filled with useless stats), try to gain some supporters, followed by Malik news or thread to engage BZ in long lengthy useless conversation, and than hit with Afridi thread to bring all the fan boys in one place. How predictable, isn't he?

PS: This SR comparison is the most laughable argument I have seen by somebody for the sake to win a debate ( at the cost of loosing all the credibility and exposing himself).

 

[zaid65]

Who needs Afridis useless S/R anyways ?

Razzaq can do everything that Afridi could but Afridi couldnt do everything that Razzaq can.

Tell me one knock of 50 or more played by Afrdi in a pressure filled chase, OTOH Razzaq arguably played the Best Ever Odi innings where he chased 50 runs with the last wicket.

Can we even expect Afridi to score 6 runs in last over with 1 wicket in hand ? Razzaq scored 16 against SA.

If Afridi had batted in Razaqs place then he would have been out during the 1st ball of the final over and match would have been over there itself.

So much for having a Higher S/R.

Whenever Afridi failed to finish the match and scored some usless runs ( which happened 99% of the time ) , Afridi fan would make the argument, but he scored the highest runs and other players failed.

 

[Raz]

Afridi is a decent bits n pieces cricketer and that is it.

Only in Pakistan and in minnows like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Ireland etc would he have played 360 ODIs and when you play so many games, you are bound to win some of them on your own.

More than just a decent bits and pieces cricketer, he's one of the biggest match winners that Pakistan has produced. If man of the match awards are anything to go by, he's won more matches for Pakistan than Inzamam (who played more matches than Afridi has currently) and Wasim (played only three less than what Afridi is on right now). And it's on this basis that he's played so many matches. It's because of this various selectors, captains and coaches have felt it's worth including him in the XI.

Bottom-line is that Afridi has a pathetic average of 23 and that too playing in the lower order most of the times and hence having a chance to boost his average by remaining not out but Afridi has shown that he's incapable of that.

Even as an opener, he averages 24 with 3 hundreds in 145 games. That is a pathetic record.

I couldn't give a monkey's about his average. Afridi doesn't care, I don't care and neither do millions of others. It's the most common argument that's bandied about when any discussion on Afridi comes up. Afridi's style of batting, which is completely unique is not going to warrant a batting average in the 30s or even 40s. Afridi's USP is that he is capable of producing that performance that gives a slap in the face of his so-called pathetic average.

With the ball his record against quality teams is very mediocre.

By overall record you mean average. But again if you're prepared to look beyond the average, you'll notice that he's given some good performances and some extraordinary performances against these quality teams. Again no I couldn't care less that his average is the 30s. He's there because he's a strike bowler, he's a partnership-breaker and he's a wicket taker. Rather like with his batting he's capable of producing that performance that will more or less clinch the match for his team.

Afridi is a decent utility cricketer who has done well at times in the past and will continue do well occasionally and can be an absolute match winner on his day BUT it is people like you because of which he is the most overrated cricketer in history.

Stop living under the delusion that he is a great/world class player or a legend. He is not and neither is he big talent. I don't consider him an underachiever and let me explain why.

Just because you can hit a couple of random sixes per innings before top edging eventually doesn't make you a talented batsman. A talented batsman is the one who can play long, sensible innings and according to the situation of the team.

Firstly I don't consider him a great, but I do consider him a legend. A distinction needs to be made between the two. A cricketer could be both or either. These words are not synonyms. Afridi is a legend, because he's an entertainer but an entertainer mostly for the reasons that people queue up to see him and empty the stadium when he gets out. He's a legend because some of his exploits haven't been witnessed before or since. That he hasn't done it consistently means he isn't a great. But that is his charm. His brand of cricket will never be destined to attain consistency.

I see him as a talented batsman because he can play all the shots in the book. For any one delivery he has more shots as options that he can play than any other batsman in history. He is a batsman who in one over can be elegant, orthodox, ungainly and outrageous yet take that over 20 runs in that over. He can take apart any sort of bowler, whether its a great in Murali, a great in McGrath or in ODI cricket a great in Lee.

If your brand of cricket is that of an aggressive batsman, than man up and play like Viv Richards, Gilchrist and Sehwag etc.

Having 24 hundreds at an average of 50 and SR of 83 with triple hundreds (one of them in a single day) is what you call hitting and power batting. Not cheap slogs of Afridi at an average of 23.

Having the best strike rate in history when you have an average of 23 is not a big deal and in most cases, it doesn't help the team at all.

Even after 17 years and 350+ ODI matches, he has failed to learn the art of playing according to the situation.

I'm confused. Why are you comparing Sehwag's Test batting stats with Afridi's ODI batting stat? If you want to talk Test cricket, then do you really think Afridi has a poor Test batting record? Personally I feel Afridi's Test career was unfulfilled. He could have achieved so much more had he not been unfairly treated during 2006 when his passion for Test cricket was at its zenith. By 2010 it had gone and Afridi knew that himself which is why he called it quits.

He isn't a batsman who will be able to meet the demands of the situation on a consistent basis. That isn't the way to use him. He is best utilised when he is understood as a batsman, given confidence and is given a role in the team much like Woolmer did. And Afridi did respond positively, perhaps more so than during any other phase of his career.

I have followed Afridi's career throughout and apart from the two knocks in the T20 2009 and the one against WI in the second T20 recently, I don't remember a single sensible innings from Afridi or which he has played according to the situation by curbing his attacking instincts.

Making his immature fans dance and entertain them with 6 ball cameos is what he lives for.

You clearly haven't followed it as well as you think you have, if during his whole career you could only pick out three innings which you deem to be sensible or played according to the situation by suppressing his attacking instincts. His century against Sri Lanka in 2010 is one that immediately comes to mind. There are many more of course.

And this is it. The extent to which Afridi can curb his aggression with the bat is seen as an additional measure by which he can be judged. I feel that this is grossly unfair and is a flawed way of thinking anyway. Afridi in general should be given free license to play how he wants. Don't tell him to rein himself in, because it isn't going to happen consistently and will be counter productive to what the objective is. Feed his strengths by giving him confidence and he will respond.

I enjoy Afridi and I miss him when he isn't in the team because he has the presence about him and x factor if you like and it is understandable the people worship him (flashy hair getting shampooed before the match for money from head and shoulders, trademark celebrations, sixes and all that) BUT DON'T MAKE OF HIM WHAT HE IS NOT. He is no legend, he is not a great player and neither is he a big talent.

He is a club level slogger with zero application and a decent leg spinner.

I've already sort of addressed what you've said here earlier.

The difference between him and other mediocre players is that he can potentially be a total match winner on his day and that is understandable with the way he plays. If you blindfold yourself and throw darts, Eventually after 20 misses, you'll hit the bulls eye for once.

But if you act sensibly and not blind fold yourself for show off purpose, you may not look awesome while hitting the bulls eye but you will not miss the target completely with your other shots.

Afridi could have kept that strike rate to around 100 instead of the sexy 114 and boosted his average to 35 if he had any thing between his skull.

But who says having a good cricketing brain is not part of talent? Learn what talent means to start with.

You're placing the onus entirely on Afridi for him to show the mental discipline that you and others want. I disagree that he should be told or even asked to rein himself in. What needs to happen is that he should be given complete freedom to bat how he wants. He's more likely to succeed that way. By asking him to go tuk tuk it means he's having to cover up for the failures of others. He's only found himself in a tuk tuk situation because others before him failed. Now if he fails to produce that innings to save the team's blushes then don't go crazy with endless criticism directed at him. Direct more of your criticism at who caused the situation of despair in the first place.

 

[zaid65]

I couldn't give a monkey's about his average. Afridi doesn't care, I don't care and neither do millions of others. It's the most common argument that's bandied about when any discussion on Afridi comes up. Afridi's style of batting, which is completely unique is not going to warrant a batting average in the 30s or even 40s. Afridi's USP is that he is capable of producing that performance that gives a slap in the face of his so-called pathetic average.

Hahaha, the most important part of the discussion, which people are discussing and having a conversation, which define the class and stature of the player, the answer is, I dont care, ..care to define, what do you care about Afridi? his looks, his hairs, his manipulations, his dirty politics, his chicken tikka stores, his stats against minnows, his useless and irresponsible slogs which cost the game 90% of the time?

Is this is the best answer you could come out to defend Afridi, your chaheeta player?

 

[Haroon786]

I hope this last ten years were worst for Pakistani cricket, I dont want us ever pkummeting lower than these depths, we can only go up, its shocking when we used to laud the greatest allrounder in the game we are now singing the laurels of the worst allrounder to play 350 Odis.

 

[zaid65]

I hope this last ten years were worst for Pakistani cricket, I dont want us ever pkummeting lower than these depths, we can only go up, its shocking when we used to laud the greatest allrounder in the game we are now singing the laurels of the worst allrounder to play 350 Odis.

Exactly!!

Actually majority of the people who are singing the songs of Afridi are either born around 1997 or start watching cricket during this era or they used to watch Pakistani drama serial with Saas bahu laraai, Afridi is perfect role model for them, he provide everything which is missing link in their life.

 

[Raz]

Hahaha, the most important part of the discussion, which people are discussing and having a conversation, which define the class and stature of the player, the answer is, I dont care, ..care to define, what do you care about Afridi? his looks, his hairs, his manipulations, his dirty politics, his chicken tikka stores, his stats against minnows, his useless and irresponsible slogs which cost the game 90% of the time?

Is this is the best answer you could come out to defend Afridi, your chaheeta player?

This post of yours just goes to show that even after so many years of stalking Afridi, you still make that mistake of judging him by his average? Well if that's what keeps you going you carry on sunshine.

His success in life must eat you up so bad because your posts seem like just incessant regurgitation. Don't get me wrong I find them highly amusing perhaps borderline entertaining so please continue.

 

[RapidSnake29]

legendary ownage by Raz. Iam your fan bro.

 

[Reverselap]

So Raz, summary of that long post, no one cares about average, Afridi has performances that win us games?

He may have won us 50-60 matches singlehandedly, but if we had another player who gave steady, good, reliable, performances, we may have won about 150-160 of those 350 matches.

 

[Sidilicious]

So Raz, summary of that long post, no one cares about average, Afridi has performances that win us games?

He may have won us 50-60 matches singlehandedly, but if we had another player who gave steady, good, reliable, performances, we may have won about 150-160 of those 350 matches.

+1

He said Afridi won pak 50-60 singlehandedly (i would say its more like 20, but lets assume he is correct) matches out of around 350 he has played. That's one in 6. He has pretty much 0 contribution in the rest. Just a wicket here or there.

Is that enough to warrant a place in the team? NO. You need someone who can perform consistently so that you can build a team around it. Someone who contributes in every game. You can't just base all your matches on bang or bust.

 

[zaid65]

+1

He said Afridi won pak 50-60 singlehandedly (i would say its more like 20, but lets assume he is correct) matches out of around 350 he has played. That's one in 6. He has pretty much 0 contribution in the rest. Just a wicket here or there.

Is that enough to warrant a place in the team? NO. You need someone who can perform consistently so that you can build a team around it. Someone who contributes in every game. You can't just base all your matches on bang or bust.

If he had won 50-60 games single handedly ( going by Afridi's fan boys delusional stats), care to define, how many games country has lost due to his brain farts, his deliberate attempt to throw away his wicket to undermine the captain ( so he can get the captaincy eventually).

 

[zaid65]

This post of yours just goes to show that even after so many years of stalking Afridi, you still make that mistake of judging him by his average? Well if that's what keeps you going you carry on sunshine.

His success in life must eat you up so bad because your posts seem like just incessant regurgitation. Don't get me wrong I find them highly amusing perhaps borderline entertaining so please continue.

If you call Afridi's life successful ( dropped 31 times from the team), begging to play IPL by kissing Indian players, going around the world to play mama papa leagues to make cheap dollars, has to beg every politicians to get into the team after being dropped, use cheap journalists to get 99 cents fame,..I would pray to God, make me a Dog but do not make me Afridi

 

[Haroon786]

Exactly!!

Actually majority of the people who are singing the songs of Afridi are either born around 1997 or start watching cricket during this era or they used to watch Pakistani drama serial with Saas bahu laraai, Afridi is perfect role model for them, he provide everything which is missing link in their life.

Ironically I was born in 97.

 

[zaid65]

So Raz, summary of that long post, no one cares about average, Afridi has performances that win us games?

He may have won us 50-60 matches singlehandedly, but if we had another player who gave steady, good, reliable, performances, we may have won about 150-160 of those 350 matches.

Every single Afridi has has hidden BZ somewhere, they all seems to have frontal lobe infarcted and instead of using the logic in discussion, they all use emotions ( for obvious reasons).

 

[cricketfanfirst]

Whether one may agree or not with all of zaid's posts but they are funny, specially when he is on Afridi's case. Quite a unique poster here on PP.

 

[zaid65]

Ironically I was born in 97.

You are lucky, your parents tuned into Barneys for you instead of putting Pakistan-SL match where Afridi had played a fluke inning.

Imagine, if you would have watched that inning in your crib, you would be bringing Afridi's SR comparison or his match winning abilities 1-50 match

 

[zaid65]

Whether one may agree or not with all of zaid's posts but they are funny, specially when he is on Afridi's case. Quite a unique poster here on PP.

Hahaha, thanks for the compliment.

 

[Mamoon]

So the bottom line is that neither Afridi nor his fans care about his pathetic average and mediocre stats. So what do they care about? It proves once again that they care about Afridi the brand (hair, looks, restaurants, boutiques etc) and not Afridi the cricketer.

 

[Wattoo]

Afridi + Brain = Abdul Razzaq

 

[Mamoon]

In hindsight, that 37 ball hundred is the most powerful innings in history of cricket. Which other innings has carried a player for 17 years and 350 matches?

Tendulkar was forced to retire from ODIs 2 years after his 200 against South Africa.

Ponting was kicked out only a year after scoring double hundreds against India

 

[bill_123]

Razzaq is one of the GREATEST match winning finishers in all of ODI cricket...this comparison isn't even all dat valid...afridi is average overall...while Razzaq is a VERY GOOD ODI cricketer...so yes razzaq by miles

 

[zaid65]

So the bottom line is that neither Afridi nor his fans care about his pathetic average and mediocre stats. So what do they care about? It proves once again that they care about Afridi the brand (hair, looks, restaurants, boutiques etc) and not Afridi the cricketer.

For them, Afridi is a name of Lollywood version of Spiderman, Superman, Batman,..they all have his posters all over, half of them don't even know who many balls in one over or how players get out, this is why they dont care about average.

For them, hitting choukay chakaay is the ultimate thing in cricket, this is why they care so much about strike rate.

 

[zaid65]

In hindsight, that 37 ball hundred is the most powerful innings in history of cricket. Which other innings has carried a player for 17 years and 350 matches?

Tendulkar was forced to retire from ODIs 2 years after his 200 against South Africa.

Ponting was kicked out only a year after scoring double hundreds against India

That 37 ball hundred has destroyed the Pakistani cricket the most. If he would not have scored that hundred, he would have done and dusted long time ago and we would not seen all this dirty politics and below mediocre performance for so long.

Hey, but at least, who would have provided me the top class entertainment?

 

[Haroon786]

You are lucky, your parents tuned into Barneys for you instead of putting Pakistan-SL match where Afridi had played a fluke inning.

Imagine, if you would have watched that inning in your crib, you would be bringing Afridi's SR comparison or his match winning abilities 1-50 match

Yeah LOL

 

[Sidilicious]

See, as a kid I used to enjoy Afridi batting, even when he giving to phainty to Indian bowlers. He had a sense of freedom about him, as if he didn't care. Studying in school, and being surrounded by books, I used to feel wish I could just be that care free. Then, I grew up. I started appreciate what is more important. I started to understand the finer things of cricket.

For a while, I used to think, yeah Afridi will mature very soon. Sure next match he will think and play. Its been 9 years (2004 indo pak series) since I stopped being his fan. He hasn't grown up yet.

More swashbuckling players than him have come, done their bit of hitting and samshing sixes, and then taken responsibility and have now become top finishers in the sport.

 

[I Believe in the Teesra]

I'd take Razzaq over Afridi simply because Razzaq's batting has been more matching winning for us than Afridi's. Afridi shines when facing minnows but I think Razzaq has done it a tad more consistently against other teams.

 

[zaid65]

See, as a kid I used to enjoy Afridi batting, even when he giving to phainty to Indian bowlers. He had a sense of freedom about him, as if he didn't care. Studying in school, and being surrounded by books, I used to feel wish I could just be that care free. Then, I grew up. I started appreciate what is more important. I started to understand the finer things of cricket.

For a while, I used to think, yeah Afridi will mature very soon. Sure next match he will think and play. Its been 9 years (2004 indo pak series) since I stopped being his fan. He hasn't grown up yet.

More swashbuckling players than him have come, done their bit of hitting and samshing sixes, and then taken responsibility and have now become top finishers in the sport.

Excellent small write up..

So you are saying, most of the Afridi fans have grown up except Afridi ( with few exceptions), look like Afridi has been stuck to an-nal phase of life . (Sigmund Freud’s theory of psychosexual development)

 

[Mamoon]

For them, Afridi is a name of Lollywood version of Spiderman, Superman, Batman,..they all have his posters all over, half of them don't even know who many balls in one over or how players get out, this is why they dont care about average.

For them, hitting choukay chakaay is the ultimate thing in cricket, this is why they care so much about strike rate.

Yeah he's a superhero )

 

[Mamoon]

That 37 ball hundred has destroyed the Pakistani cricket the most. If he would not have scored that hundred, he would have done and dusted long time ago and we would not seen all this dirty politics and below mediocre performance for so long.

Hey, but at least, who would have provided me the top class entertainment?

It's amazing how different Pakistan cricket would have been without his hundred but yeah it has been pure entertainment.

 

[Mobashir]

It's amazing how different Pakistan cricket would have been without his hundred but yeah it has been pure entertainment.

You are yet to awnser post number 67? Or too hard to awnser?

 

[Mamoon]

You are yet to awnser post number 67? Or too hard to awnser?

Sorry, had too many posts to cover

Afridi has done very well for his ability as a test match batsman. Better than Razzaq because he plays spin better.

I will have neither of them in Tests anyway but no comparison in ODIs. Razzaq is much superior and reliable and a bigger match winner with the bat.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

Featured on our FB page
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....10150150879386041.349709.128644756040&type=1

 

[Itachi]

Sorry, had too many posts to cover

Afridi has done very well for his ability as a test match batsman. Better than Razzaq because he plays spin better.

I will have neither of them in Tests anyway but no comparison in ODIs. Razzaq is much superior and reliable and a bigger match winner with the bat

but Razzaq is NOT a leader.

Afridi took a weak, unprepared ODI team to SEMI FINAL of WORLD CUP. This isn't a joke.

 

[cricketfanfirst]

but Razzaq is NOT a leader.

Afridi took a weak, unprepared ODI team to SEMI FINAL of WORLD CUP. This isn't a joke.

Here the comparison is about players performance in ODIs and not their leadership abilities. So, based on these parameters, Razzaq has been more consistent which is showed in his stats.

 

[ethan hunt]

Razzaq vs kapil dev was a better comparison in ODIs.
Afridi is the chuck norris of the cricketing world , you just dont compare him to others .

 

[Despicable Green]

Razzaq in his Early days were much much much better than Afridi now and in his early age

 

[Haroon786]

Look at it this way, Razzaq-cricket, Afridi-entertainment.

 

[Raz]

legendary ownage by Raz. Iam your fan bro.

Thanks, the sad thing is that much of what I've said is nothing new really. Hence it's good to remind others from time to time, who still don't get it.

 

[Raz]

So Raz, summary of that long post, no one cares about average, Afridi has performances that win us games?

He may have won us 50-60 matches singlehandedly, but if we had another player who gave steady, good, reliable, performances, we may have won about 150-160 of those 350 matches.

Yes average is inconsequential as far as Afridi is concerned. It is all about looking at his stupendous performances from the past and deciding to take that risk by including him in the side. The negative repercussions of that risk can be minimised by giving him confidence and other things that I mentioned.


Yes he's had a major part to play in numerous team victories and yes in some of these Afridi's performance towered above all others. However the sort of player that you speak of would have to given Herculean-type performances to have made that much of a difference in most of the 100 additional matches that you mention. There have not been many matches where Afridi didn't perform and everyone else did. The other important point is that this steady, good, reliable performer would not have been able to put in those jaw-dropping performances that Afridi did and continues to do, which were the reason why Pakistan did end up winning.

The problem is that such a player didn't exist and currently does not exist. The ones that came close were already playing such as Abdul Razzaq. Presently there isn't one that even comes close.

 

[Raz]

+1

He said Afridi won pak 50-60 singlehandedly (i would say its more like 20, but lets assume he is correct) matches out of around 350 he has played. That's one in 6. He has pretty much 0 contribution in the rest. Just a wicket here or there.

Is that enough to warrant a place in the team? NO. You need someone who can perform consistently so that you can build a team around it. Someone who contributes in every game. You can't just base all your matches on bang or bust.

I'm fairly confident that Afridi's ratio of performances compares fairly favourably with others. And even then performance is subjective. What is performance for some isn't for others.

Again I'll just repeat that who exactly has Afridi kept out of the side for so long that was such a consistent performer in domestic and would have been to do what Afridi did do and what Afridi wasn't able to. And finally just to reiterate I would say that with Afridi it's worth taking the risk.

 

[Haroon786]

It's beyond me how Afridi fan boys still try to justify his place in the team, but admiteddly he's performed well to merit his selection for Zimbabwe

 

[Raz]

If he had won 50-60 games single handedly ( going by Afridi's fan boys delusional stats), care to define, how many games country has lost due to his brain farts, his deliberate attempt to throw away his wicket to undermine the captain ( so he can get the captaincy eventually).

Lol, oh so the team lost only because of his "brain farts"? I guess other non-performers can be exonerated of any blame right? Makes complete sense.

You other claim is just

 

[Raz]

If you call Afridi's life successful ( dropped 31 times from the team), begging to play IPL by kissing Indian players, going around the world to play mama papa leagues to make cheap dollars, has to beg every politicians to get into the team after being dropped, use cheap journalists to get 99 cents fame,..I would pray to God, make me a Dog but do not make me Afridi

)) One word to describe both you and Afridi: legend.

 

[Raz]

Every single Afridi has has hidden BZ somewhere, they all seems to have frontal lobe infarcted and instead of using the logic in discussion, they all use emotions ( for obvious reasons).

As opposed to you who doesn't at all deal with speculation. You prefer pure unadulterated fact right? And you have had all these various "facts" of yours verified because you have friends in high places?

 

[Raz]

So the bottom line is that neither Afridi nor his fans care about his pathetic average and mediocre stats. So what do they care about? It proves once again that they care about Afridi the brand (hair, looks, restaurants, boutiques etc) and not Afridi the cricketer.

I don't care about stats that Afridi is able to render asunder through his bombastic performances. His average is completely meaningless and insignificant. That is what I and others believe to be his charm.

 

[Haroon786]

I don't care about stats that Afridi is able to render asunder through his bombastic performances. His average is completely meaningless and insignificant. That is what I and others believe to be his charm.

You and others can follow him and his 'charm' in T20 leagues around the leagues, the national team is reserved for consistency and results, we can't afford one match of brilliance, then ten further matches of utter mediocrity, effectively making it a 12 vs 10 contest.

 

[Raz]

In hindsight, that 37 ball hundred is the most powerful innings in history of cricket. Which other innings has carried a player for 17 years and 350 matches?

Tendulkar was forced to retire from ODIs 2 years after his 200 against South Africa.

Ponting was kicked out only a year after scoring double hundreds against India

That 37 ball hundred has destroyed the Pakistani cricket the most. If he would not have scored that hundred, he would have done and dusted long time ago and we would not seen all this dirty politics and below mediocre performance for so long.

Hey, but at least, who would have provided me the top class entertainment?

That 37 ball hundred certainly has had reverberations both positive and negative on Afridi the player and Pakistan as a team. It brought to the fore the exceptional talent of a someone who was only considered a leg spinner. However conversely it meant that his leg spin never developed for the first 8 years or so of his career and he was labelled a pinch hitter who could bowl a bit.

For 8 years, Pakistan gained someone who get the innings off to a rollicking start, but lost the opportunity to develop someone into a decent leg spinner. With the likes of Saqlain and other spinners around we perhaps didn't feel the absence of the leg breaks, but due to mismanagement of his talent, we could have benefited so much more from his batting talent.

 

[Raz]

You and others can follow him and his 'charm' in T20 leagues around the leagues, the national team is reserved for consistency and results, we can't afford one match of brilliance, then ten further matches of utter mediocrity, effectively making it a 12 vs 10 contest.

It need not be that way if he is properly handled, if he is given confidence, if Whatmore and Misbah adopt the approach of Woolmer/Inzi.

 

[zaid65]

As opposed to you who doesn't at all deal with speculation. You prefer pure unadulterated fact right? And you have had all these various "facts" of yours verified because you have friends in high places?

I guess you cannot comprehend the difference between the first hand information vs speculation, love is blind, isn't it?

 

[Sidilicious]

That 37 ball hundred certainly has had reverberations both positive and negative on Afridi the player and Pakistan as a team. It brought to the fore the exceptional talent of a someone who was only considered a leg spinner. However conversely it meant that his leg spin never developed for the first 8 years or so of his career and he was labelled a pinch hitter who could bowl a bit.

For 8 years, Pakistan gained someone who get the innings off to a rollicking start, but lost the opportunity to develop someone into a decent leg spinner. With the likes of Saqlain and other spinners around we perhaps didn't feel the absence of the leg breaks, but due to mismanagement of his talent, we could have benefited so much more from his batting talent.

Care to quantify how many times he gave Pak a rollicking start and how many times did he fail? Anything less than 25, with SR less than 100 should be classified as a failure when opening the batting

Compare that to other players like dilshan/sehwag who are expected to provide a 'rollicking' start.

 

[zaid65]

)) One word to describe both you and Afridi: legend.

I am glad you enjoyed it

 

[waqas.farooq]

It's not just a common argument on PP, it's the opinion of many others including the late Bob Woolmer, whom if I recall once said "Shahid Afridi is one of the most talented cricketers I have seen".

You and others talk as if Afridi has only scored that 37 ball century and done jack diddly squat in the other matches he has played. Or are you going to call his many other noteworthy innings flukes as well? Afridi has played shots that others can only dream of playing. He has taken apart great bowlers during his career. Now many other cricketers have come and gone during Afridi's career. Yet they haven't achieved even half as much as what Afridi has.

yup most talented to entertain

 

[Reverselap]

Yes average is inconsequential as far as Afridi is concerned. It is all about looking at his stupendous performances from the past and deciding to take that risk by including him in the side. The negative repercussions of that risk can be minimised by giving him confidence and other things that I mentioned.


Yes he's had a major part to play in numerous team victories and yes in some of these Afridi's performance towered above all others. However the sort of player that you speak of would have to given Herculean-type performances to have made that much of a difference in most of the 100 additional matches that you mention. There have not been many matches where Afridi didn't perform and everyone else did. The other important point is that this steady, good, reliable performer would not have been able to put in those jaw-dropping performances that Afridi did and continues to do, which were the reason why Pakistan did end up winning.

The problem is that such a player didn't exist and currently does not exist. The ones that came close were already playing such as Abdul Razzaq. Presently there isn't one that even comes close.

I can count 20-30 matches in the recent past where even a 20 by Afridi could have won us the match. You all claim he won us a T20 World Cup? Well, what about the last one we lost against Lanka. Had he given us even 10 runs, we'd have won that. Instead, his first ball duck ruined everything. We'd have won against Windies in the final, for sure, if we'd won the semis. That's one whole World Cup

The 2011 World Cup, right, blaming . But when Afridi got out to a full toss, the RRR was about 8 rpo for 10 overs. Not impossible at all. Yes, Misbah was to blame, but what about Afridi's reckless shot?

We'd already beaten Lanka so that's two titles, bro.

 

[Bilal1947]

Razzaq had the ability to really become something special.Intially he batted at no.3 and his bowling had real venom but I feel he became complacent and did not work on his fitness.That what sets Imran Khan apart in PAK cricket.He wasn't most talented cricketer but he became great by sheer hardwork and by punching above his weight.There were far more naturally gifted players in Pak history but they had pretty average carreers.
With Afridi,the case is different.I think works very hard and is highly talented.Not many will agree but he is one of finest batsman for limited overs cricket in the last decade.Unfortunately he refuses to use his brain and read match situation otherwise his record would be like Sehwag,Symonds and Gayle

 

[Reverselap]

With Afridi,the case is different.I think works very hard and is highly talented.Not many will agree but he is one of finest batsman for limited overs cricket in the last decade.

Astaghfirullah! No way, that is an insult to........


Every batsman to grace the game in that period. He averages 20.

 

[waqas.farooq]

For Pakistani fans, Imran Nazir is very talented, Afridi is the most talented player world of cricket ever produced, Sami is talented fast bowler, Wahab is rare talent, Fawad Alam is talented, ....anybody who can hit boundaries with blind eyes and have speed is talented.

If you happened to decent looking, better looks, style, ...the talent is beyond the limit ( almost kind of fetish to them).

when did Fawad hit boundaries with blind eyes

 

[subshakerz]

Shahid Afridi vs Abdul Razzaq - Who was the better ODI player?

I used to think Razzaq was an underrated player who produced really key performances for Pakistan in many crunch situations in ODIs. Now, having gone over his ODI numbers (batting average of 29 and bowling average of 31) I am inclined to rate his slightly better than Afridi.

Afridi always gained the limelight for his on field heroics but in my opinion Razzaq was a most consistent, tougher and dangerous customer. How would you rank them?

 

[Hasan123]

Abdul Razzaq