Shoaib Akhtar or Mitchell Johnson - Who is the better bowler?

[Abid Z]

Johnson can only dream of performing in important matches like Akhter did in the SF of 1999 WC

Johnson was okayish in both the wcs he played

Firstly I promise you that you’ve only seen re runs or highlights of the 1999 World Cup and I assure you that Shohaib was the biggest flop. Despite his speed and wicket taking ability nz still got to 240 and he only picked 3 wickets. The Yorker to Stephen Fleming was pretty special but we did t see any more of those. It was talked about constantly by Wasim, waqar Imran and everybody else but Shohaib just wanted to bowl his way.

Now the final where gilchrist took him apart before we knew what gilchrist could do was a sight to behold and brought tears to the eye. A year later Marcus trescothick returned the favour. Shohaib was just too flashy to care when he could have really made a difference

 

[Faisalsq092]

Firstly I promise you that you’ve only seen re runs or highlights of the 1999 World Cup and I assure you that Shohaib was the biggest flop. Despite his speed and wicket taking ability nz still got to 240 and he only picked 3 wickets. The Yorker to Stephen Fleming was pretty special but we did t see any more of those. It was talked about constantly by Wasim, waqar Imran and everybody else but Shohaib just wanted to bowl his way.

Now the final where gilchrist took him apart before we knew what gilchrist could do was a sight to behold and brought tears to the eye. A year later Marcus trescothick returned the favour. Shohaib was just too flashy to care when he could have really made a difference

Wow! you are seriously after Shoaib Akhtar. I have followed his entire career and can safely say he was a genuine match winning bowler. Yes he got injured, but that was part of the package. You earlier said that you dont remember a single yorker post 1999. Probably u dont remember that brute to Kallis in Faisalabad 2003 or that stump shattering one to Giles in Multan 2005. These yorkers were so special that I didnt need to google the venues, it has just stuck in my mind. Shoaib Akhtar could have done a lot but he underachieved due to a fragile body which he was born with.

 

[Abid Z]

Wow! you are seriously after Shoaib Akhtar. I have followed his entire career and can safely say he was a genuine match winning bowler. Yes he got injured, but that was part of the package. You earlier said that you dont remember a single yorker post 1999. Probably u dont remember that brute to Kallis in Faisalabad 2003 or that stump shattering one to Giles in Multan 2005. These yorkers were so special that I didnt need to google the venues, it has just stuck in my mind. Shoaib Akhtar could have done a lot but he underachieved due to a fragile body which he was born with.

Thanks for your post and my sincerest apologies to any Shohaib fan as he was a true star of the game and patriot. I loved him then and still think he’s wonderful.

But! The issue is would we have him in the team over a workhorse and clearly his star power is usurped by the work ethic and fitness of others. Let’s follow this logic

In 2003 SA IN PAK was probably their weakest bowling attack our batsmen therefore flourished. Shohaib got a couple of wickets in the first test in Lahore. None was a Yorker to Kallis (the scorecard doesn’t read kallis bwld akhtar. You will see that he limped off in the second innings and didn’t play in the following match in Faisalabad. Shabbir Ahmed took his place and I think became the fastest to 50 wickets. Then of course there was razzaq in his prime Gul did well against India in 2004 in Multan or Lahore I think and Rana was the spearhead for a long time.

So you see the very tour you mention, Shohaib only played half a match. And yes his body was bendy and fragile but he had a very fractious relationship with Wasim, waqar inzi, bob woolmer, naseem Ashraf etc etc. Nobody forced him to hit Asif with a bat or take nandrolone. So however great Shohaib was in little segments he was always unreliable.

The 2005 series Eng v Pak was his best though. But 7 years too late and it was a shame that we played very little cricket in 2007, 2008 and 2009. I think Geoff Lawson was on record to say he wouldn’t have him in the team.

 

[Faisalsq092]

Thanks for your post and my sincerest apologies to any Shohaib fan as he was a true star of the game and patriot. I loved him then and still think he’s wonderful.

But! The issue is would we have him in the team over a workhorse and clearly his star power is usurped by the work ethic and fitness of others. Let’s follow this logic

In 2003 SA IN PAK was probably their weakest bowling attack our batsmen therefore flourished. Shohaib got a couple of wickets in the first test in Lahore. None was a Yorker to Kallis (the scorecard doesn’t read kallis bwld akhtar. You will see that he limped off in the second innings and didn’t play in the following match in Faisalabad. Shabbir Ahmed took his place and I think became the fastest to 50 wickets. Then of course there was razzaq in his prime Gul did well against India in 2004 in Multan or Lahore I think and Rana was the spearhead for a long time.

So you see the very tour you mention, Shohaib only played half a match. And yes his body was bendy and fragile but he had a very fractious relationship with Wasim, waqar inzi, bob woolmer, naseem Ashraf etc etc. Nobody forced him to hit Asif with a bat or take nandrolone. So however great Shohaib was in little segments he was always unreliable.

The 2005 series Eng v Pak was his best though. But 7 years too late and it was a shame that we played very little cricket in 2007, 2008 and 2009. I think Geoff Lawson was on record to say he wouldn’t have him in the team.

I was referring to the 3rd ODI played in that series. I watched the match live, Shoaib was in middle of a fiery spell, the ball was supposed to be his last of the spell and everyone including me commentators and probably Kallis knew it was going to be full indipping yorker. The way he bowled a well set Kallis is a sight u must not miss. Here's the link http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...-3rd-ODI-south-africa-in-pakistan-odi-series/.

Btw the Lahore test against South Africa you are referring to, Shoaib didnt played half a match. He was injured in the 2nd innings but not before he took 4 wickets in the innings and made an impact.

And in between those South Africa and Indian Series, there was a tour to NZ where Shoaib single handedly won us a test match with his sheer brilliance. Shoaib played the whole series against India btw although without much success.

His fitness was always an issue and so was his attitude. But the thread is about who was the better bowler and for me it was very clearly Akhtar who was more dangerous and lethal.

 

[Mainul]

Even Shoib Akhter of 2011 looked more lethal to me than Johnson.Akhter bowled with venom against Newzealand and Srilanka and he was in his twilight of his career. Actuallyhould be no confusion about who was the best.The comparison came here just because of longevity of the career of Johnson which made the total wicket tally better than Shoib.

 

[bujhee kom]

Akhtar was better overall. He is one of the better pacers I have seen. Not category 1 great but truly world class.

 

[Savak]

The spells that Akhtar bowled in the graveyards of Colombo and Sharjah against the best side of his generation i.e. the Invincible Aussies in 2002 and WI in 2002, Johnson can only dream off, in fact Johnson always got disheartened when the pitch had nothing for him.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Thanks for your post and my sincerest apologies to any Shohaib fan as he was a true star of the game and patriot. I loved him then and still think he’s wonderful.

But! The issue is would we have him in the team over a workhorse and clearly his star power is usurped by the work ethic and fitness of others. Let’s follow this logic

In 2003 SA IN PAK was probably their weakest bowling attack our batsmen therefore flourished. Shohaib got a couple of wickets in the first test in Lahore. None was a Yorker to Kallis (the scorecard doesn’t read kallis bwld akhtar. You will see that he limped off in the second innings and didn’t play in the following match in Faisalabad. Shabbir Ahmed took his place and I think became the fastest to 50 wickets. Then of course there was razzaq in his prime Gul did well against India in 2004 in Multan or Lahore I think and Rana was the spearhead for a long time.

So you see the very tour you mention, Shohaib only played half a match. And yes his body was bendy and fragile but he had a very fractious relationship with Wasim, waqar inzi, bob woolmer, naseem Ashraf etc etc. Nobody forced him to hit Asif with a bat or take nandrolone. So however great Shohaib was in little segments he was always unreliable.

The 2005 series Eng v Pak was his best though. But 7 years too late and it was a shame that we played very little cricket in 2007, 2008 and 2009. I think Geoff Lawson was on record to say he wouldn’t have him in the team.

He got Kallis with a yorker in one of the ODIs. Brutal delivery that few can match.

 

[Savak]

He got Kallis with a yorker in one of the ODIs. Brutal delivery that few can match.

I remember that over, Kallis hit the over pitched delivery for 4 runs, the next delivery was a good inswinging yorker which he managed to keep out with a big smile on his face, the next delivery was an accidental fast full toss which was close to Kallis's ribs and went for 4 runs, in most normal circumstances an average bowler would be unsettled by the umpire warning him about the dangerous beamer but Akhtar still charged him and surprised Kallis with a fast inswinging yorker whereas Kallis was thinking the bowler after the previous delivery would be more careful and just looking to finish the over incident free.

Exciting stuff.

 

[Abid Z]

I was referring to the 3rd ODI played in that series. I watched the match live, Shoaib was in middle of a fiery spell, the ball was supposed to be his last of the spell and everyone including me commentators and probably Kallis knew it was going to be full indipping yorker. The way he bowled a well set Kallis is a sight u must not miss. Here's the link http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...-3rd-ODI-south-africa-in-pakistan-odi-series/.

Btw the Lahore test against South Africa you are referring to, Shoaib didnt played half a match. He was injured in the 2nd innings but not before he took 4 wickets in the innings and made an impact.

And in between those South Africa and Indian Series, there was a tour to NZ where Shoaib single handedly won us a test match with his sheer brilliance. Shoaib played the whole series against India btw although without much success.

His fitness was always an issue and so was his attitude. But the thread is about who was the better bowler and for me it was very clearly Akhtar who was more dangerous and lethal.

His fitness and his attitude are the only two pertinent points. His skills and wicket taking abilities would easily put him in any playing eleven let there be no doubt about this. But he missed more matches than he played.

But what’s the point of being the better bowler sat on the bench? Surely the whole point of being the better bowler is that you play the full series. Not get injured time and time again and watch his more pedestrian compatriots overtake him.

 

[Savak]

His fitness and his attitude are the only two pertinent points. His skills and wicket taking abilities would easily put him in any playing eleven let there be no doubt about this. But he missed more matches than he played.

But what’s the point of being the better bowler sat on the bench? Surely the whole point of being the better bowler is that you play the full series. Not get injured time and time again and watch his more pedestrian compatriots overtake him.

Like Shane Warne says, its not about how many wickets you go at the end of your career, how long you played, it is about the impact you made on the game and the memories you left in the short career you had.

 

[waleed88]

Even Shoib Akhter of 2011 looked more lethal to me than Johnson.Akhter bowled with venom against Newzealand and Srilanka and he was in his twilight of his career. Actuallyhould be no confusion about who was the best.The comparison came here just because of longevity of the career of Johnson which made the total wicket tally better than Shoib.

Yea which is why he averaged 47.8 in the matches he played in 2011

Fans will goto any lengths without looking at facts.

Johnson help his team win the world cup in the decline of his career and averaged 19.61 in 2015

Shoaib Akhtar was taken apart by Ross Taylor in the last world cup he played thanks to his full toss barrage... 4 sixes in his last over

 

[waleed88]

Like Shane Warne says, its not about how many wickets you go at the end of your career, how long you played, it is about the impact you made on the game and the memories you left in the short career you had.

Some way to end your International career, bowling 135kph half trackers. This is one memory that always remains special for us fans.

46.1
4
Shoaib Akhtar to Taylor, FOUR, poor delivery to begin with, swinging wide full toss way outside off stump, he capitalises, and slashes it over point and into the boundary
46.2
6
Shoaib Akhtar to Taylor, SIX, Taylor has made Pakistan pay dearly, another full toss, this time on the pads, and Ross swings it powerfully, flat and quick, over deep square leg
46.3
6
Shoaib Akhtar to Taylor, SIX, 141.1 kph high full toss, it's going horribly wrong for Shoaib, Taylor swivelled and hammered it miles over the deep midwicket boundary
46.5
4
Shoaib Akhtar to Taylor, FOUR, and another one, this time he waited in the crease for this length ball to come on comfortably wide outside off stump, and carved it over cover, no chance for sweeper cover
46.6
6
Shoaib Akhtar to Taylor, SIX, Rosco is back in style, brings up his century on his birthday, with a savage pull over deep midwicket for six, he was waiting for that shortish one on the stumps, and when it arrived, he was ready and raises his bat in celebration, the dressing room stands up and applauds

 

[Abdullah719]

Some way to end your International career, bowling 135kph half trackers. This is one memory that always remains special for us fans.

46.1
4
Shoaib Akhtar to Taylor, FOUR, poor delivery to begin with, swinging wide full toss way outside off stump, he capitalises, and slashes it over point and into the boundary
46.2
6
Shoaib Akhtar to Taylor, SIX, Taylor has made Pakistan pay dearly, another full toss, this time on the pads, and Ross swings it powerfully, flat and quick, over deep square leg
46.3
6
Shoaib Akhtar to Taylor, SIX, 141.1 kph high full toss, it's going horribly wrong for Shoaib, Taylor swivelled and hammered it miles over the deep midwicket boundary
46.5
4
Shoaib Akhtar to Taylor, FOUR, and another one, this time he waited in the crease for this length ball to come on comfortably wide outside off stump, and carved it over cover, no chance for sweeper cover
46.6
6
Shoaib Akhtar to Taylor, SIX, Rosco is back in style, brings up his century on his birthday, with a savage pull over deep midwicket for six, he was waiting for that shortish one on the stumps, and when it arrived, he was ready and raises his bat in celebration, the dressing room stands up and applauds

If the last impression is all that counts then you'll have negative impressions of most cricketers.

 

[Savak]

Yea which is why he averaged 47.8 in the matches he played in 2011

Fans will goto any lengths without looking at facts.

Johnson help his team win the world cup in the decline of his career and averaged 19.61 in 2015

Shoaib Akhtar was taken apart by Ross Taylor in the last world cup he played thanks to his full toss barrage... 4 sixes in his last over

Mitchel Johnson was being spanked around by NZ's tailenders in his home conditions in his final test match

 

[waleed88]

Mitchel Johnson was being spanked around by NZ's tailenders in his home conditions in his final test match

He won a world cup or two with the country, maybe something to refresh your memory.. while averaging 19.21 that year. If this was Shoaib that did, we will probably worshipping him like no other.

 

[waleed88]

If the last impression is all that counts then you'll have negative impressions of most cricketers.

Well a player that ends his ODI career by winning the world cup has achieved more than someone like Akhtar... but people will never look at that

 

[Abdullah719]

Well a player that ends his ODI career by winning the world cup has achieved more than someone like Akhtar... but people will never look at that

Yeah but achievements don't equate to being better on an individual level, which is what the thread is primarily about.

 

[Savak]

He won a world cup or two with the country, maybe something to refresh your memory.. while averaging 19.21 that year. If this was Shoaib that did, we will probably worshipping him like no other.

Shoaib is still worshipped regardless of his failure to win the WC or how he ended his career. Everyone remembers how Waqar's career ended, i.e. being spanked around in the 2003 WC like no tommorow, being sacked as captain, being thrown out of the team and forced into retirement.

 

[waleed88]

Shoaib is still worshipped regardless of his failure to win the WC or how he ended his career. Everyone remembers how Waqar's career ended, i.e. being spanked around in the 2003 WC like no tommorow, being sacked as captain, being thrown out of the team and forced into retirement.

Yes atleast Waqar got two wickets in the match and gave some hope to the country, while Shoaib refused to bowl to Sachin even in his prime.

 

[waleed88]

Yeah but achievements don't equate to being better on an individual level, which is what the thread is primarily about.

He was vital in that tournament too, picked up Kohli in the semi which basically sealed the match.

Picked up 3 wickets in the final. Great achievement. Here we obsess over Amir picking up 3 wickets in the final. Well he also brought the goods in the two main matches.

15 wickets in the tournament is a great number whichever way you look at it.

 

[Savak]

Yes atleast Waqar got two wickets in the match and gave some hope to the country, while Shoaib refused to bowl to Sachin even in his prime.

Changing goal posts now i.e. atleast Waqar got 2 wickets and gave some hope even though he was getting spanked around by everyone else. Shoaib was the one who got Teenda's wicket with a rip snorter.

 

[waleed88]

Changing goal posts now i.e. atleast Waqar got 2 wickets and gave some hope even though he was getting spanked around by everyone else. Shoaib was the one who got Teenda's wicket with a rip snorter.

Yea after getting destroyed by him for most of the game. Waqar got Ganguly and Sehwag in 2 balls atleast that had the momentum going for Pakistan, Tendulkar had done the damage to Pakistan by the time he got out. Shoaib's wickets was just useless since Tendulkar was already cramped and limping.

Thats the story of Shoaib's career, his fans look at the dismissals but forget to see the stuff in between, remember's Ross Taylor's dropped catch but don't remember what happened after that. In fact they only remember excuses in Shoaib's case, 'oh he had bad knees', 'oh he got out tendulkar' 'oh he was victimized by everyone' 'oh waqar was at fault for not playing him.' The only person not at fault is Akhtar himself.

 

[Abid Z]

Changing goal posts now i.e. atleast Waqar got 2 wickets and gave some hope even though he was getting spanked around by everyone else. Shoaib was the one who got Teenda's wicket with a rip snorter.

After teenda made 90 odd and won his team the match. Are you seriously as deluded as you appear?

Like Shane Warne says, its not about how many wickets you go at the end of your career, how long you played, it is about the impact you made on the game and the memories you left in the short career you had.


Array yaar everybody loves Shohaib. He’s a very likeable person if just a little thick. But regardless of that a debut in 1998 (delayed by a year due to disciplinary issues) and retirement in 2011 means about 13 years. This is not a short career yet he missed more than half the test matches played in this time and not all due to his bendy legs. Yes the year 2004-2005 was good for him and the World Cup in 2017 should have been ours but drug taking put an end to that. So how many excuses are his fans going to come up with.

 

[Savak]

Yea after getting destroyed by him for most of the game. Waqar got Ganguly and Sehwag in 2 balls atleast that had the momentum going for Pakistan, Tendulkar had done the damage to Pakistan by the time he got out. Shoaib's wickets was just useless since Tendulkar was already cramped and limping.

Thats the story of Shoaib's career, his fans look at the dismissals but forget to see the stuff in between, remember's Ross Taylor's dropped catch but don't remember what happened after that. In fact they only remember excuses in Shoaib's case, 'oh he had bad knees', 'oh he got out tendulkar' 'oh he was victimized by everyone' 'oh waqar was at fault for not playing him.' The only person not at fault is Akhtar himself.

Not really, when Shoaib got Tendulkar out, India still need 100 runs to win. Waqar was just a habitual pressure reliever where the opposition would just feast off his bowling, even Wasim rightfully told Waqar to drop himself for that India match.

Anyways, don't hijack this thread. Akhtar is a totally different league compared to Johnson.

 

[Savak]

After teenda made 90 odd and won his team the match. Are you seriously as deluded as you appear?

Like Shane Warne says, its not about how many wickets you go at the end of your career, how long you played, it is about the impact you made on the game and the memories you left in the short career you had.


Array yaar everybody loves Shohaib. He’s a very likeable person if just a little thick. But regardless of that a debut in 1998 (delayed by a year due to disciplinary issues) and retirement in 2011 means about 13 years. This is not a short career yet he missed more than half the test matches played in this time and not all due to his bendy legs. Yes the year 2004-2005 was good for him and the World Cup in 2017 should have been ours but drug taking put an end to that. So how many excuses are his fans going to come up with.

Your desperation to hijack the thread will not work. There is no question about it, in terms of ability and talent, Akhtar was miles ahead of Johnson

 

[Abid Z]

Your desperation to hijack the thread will not work. There is no question about it, in terms of ability and talent, Akhtar was miles ahead of Johnson

Hijack the thread? You have already done that with enough straw man arguments and you’re not stopping now. Are you actually reading what you write? Ability and talent? What good is that when you’re chasing your team mate around the dressing room with a bat or giving them nandrolone or sitting in the bench with genital worts?

 

[waleed88]

Not really, when Shoaib got Tendulkar out, India still need 100 runs to win. Waqar was just a habitual pressure reliever where the opposition would just feast off his bowling, even Wasim rightfully told Waqar to drop himself for that India match.

Anyways, don't hijack this thread. Akhtar is a totally different league compared to Johnson.

Who brought the topic off Waqar in? I am not hijacking the thread, you just can't seem to admit that a bowler who wins a world cup at the back end of his career can be somewhat better poorly than a guy who gets spanked for 4 sixes in his last game. And hasn't won a world cup himself.

.. atleast Johnson ended on a high in ODIs and played a few tests. Which is a testament to his fitness unlike Akhtar

Akhtar was too unfit to be even considered for tests post 2007. 4 years before his final ODI game

There is no way Johnson is worse off than Akhtar..

 

[Savak]

Hijack the thread? You have already done that with enough straw man arguments and you’re not stopping now. Are you actually reading what you write? Ability and talent? What good is that when you’re chasing your team mate around the dressing room with a bat or giving them nandrolone or sitting in the bench with genital worts?

Isn't the thread about who was the better bowler b/w Akhtar and Johnson? The answer is Shoaib as the averages indicate along with Shoaib easily being more eye catching. All the other stuff like bat, nandrolin, genital warts is irrelevant.

 

[Savak]

Who brought the topic off Waqar in? I am not hijacking the thread, you just can't seem to admit that a bowler who wins a world cup at the back end of his career can be somewhat better poorly than a guy who gets spanked for 4 sixes in his last game. And hasn't won a world cup himself.

.. atleast Johnson ended on a high in ODIs and played a few tests. Which is a testament to his fitness unlike Akhtar

Akhtar was too unfit to be even considered for tests post 2007. 4 years before his final ODI game

There is no way Johnson is worse off than Akhtar..

This thread is about who was the better bowler b/w Akhtar and Johnson and the answer is Akhtar. I only bought up Waqar given your infatuation with bringing how Akthar's final match went given that Waqar had an equally humiliating ending.

 

[waleed88]

This thread is about who was the better bowler b/w Akhtar and Johnson and the answer is Akhtar. I only bought up Waqar given your infatuation with bringing how Akthar's final match went given that Waqar had an equally humiliating ending.

I would take 2 wickets in a crunch match against India outperfoming likes of Akhtar and Wasim, rather than going for 28 in my final over and deemed unfit for the entire tournament after that.

 

[Abid Z]

Isn't the thread about who was the better bowler b/w Akhtar and Johnson? The answer is Shoaib as the averages indicate along with Shoaib easily being more eye catching. All the other stuff like bat, nandrolin, genital warts is irrelevant.

How can Shohaib be a better bowler if he doesn’t play?

 

[wrongun]

Shoaib never showed up in 2nd, 3rd, 4th spells, let alone the second day of a match or even making it all the way to a second innings or a second test. He was a front-runner without the ticker to face tough conditions for most of his career.

 

[giri26]

Both were incredible bowlers and both were inconsistent as well. So hard to choose between the two. The only thing probably might tip it in favour of Johnson is that he was more than useful lower order bat and a very good fielder as well. Even though Shoaib was quick and fun to watch, he always gave a feeling of not being fit.

 

[Buffet]

Akhtar was a better bowler, but I will take Johnson in my team over Akhtar.

Reason,

10 years 170 odd wickets vs 8 years 300+ wickets tells the story here.

 

[giri26]

Both were incredible bowlers and both were inconsistent as well. So hard to choose between the two. The only thing probably might tip it in favour of Johnson is that he was more than useful lower order bat and a very good fielder as well. Even though Shoaib was quick and fun to watch, he always gave a feeling of not being fit.

 

[Abid Z]

Akhtar was a better bowler, but I will take Johnson in my team over Akhtar.

Reason,

10 years 170 odd wickets vs 8 years 300+ wickets tells the story here.

Spot on!