Should Australia declare overnight?

[Cricfan4eva]

Australia are 1-0 up, so its Pakistan that will be pushing for a win unless they are okay with securing a draw.

IMO Aus should declare and attack Pakistan. If they end up bowling them out <150, it could be a 1 innings shoot out tomorrow on final day.

Also if they do declare overnight, will Pakistan play aggressively to set em a competitive target or just bat out time?

 

[Convict]

No.

We should just bat as long as possible.

We're not running a charity.

 

[Aman]

No.

We should just bat as long as possible.

We're not running a charity.

Your last two bowling innings suggest otherwise.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

No.

We should just bat as long as possible.

We're not running a charity.

How is it charity?

If Australia are looking to go 2-0 up, they have 2 choices -

Bat quick and get to 150 lead and then bundle out Pak.

Or put Pak in and then chase down whatever Pak put up.

With tail already in, Aus' best shot is by declaring overnight and put Pak in tomorrow morning. If you pick a few early, who knows this Pak side is vulnerable to collapse.

 

[Convict]

How is it charity?

If Australia are looking to go 2-0 up, they have 2 choices -

Bat quick and get to 150 lead and then bundle out Pak.

Or put Pak in and then chase down whatever Pak put up.

With tail already in, Aus' best shot is by declaring overnight and put Pak in tomorrow morning. If you pick a few early, who knows this Pak side is vulnerable to collapse.

We're 1-0 with a test after this.

Ten wickets for a small total is impossible on this wicket

 

[Gilly]

Australia should bat at least until lunch tomorrow and try to put on another 100-120 runs then if the wicket looks like it could have something in it put Pakistan back in to face the last two sessions, other than that bat all day and wrap up the series.

But declaring overnight is not an option, why on earth would they do that.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

We're 1-0 with a test after this.

Ten wickets for a small total is impossible on this wicket

And that's exactly why Australia can afford to take the risk

Unless Australia have already conceded this test to be a draw. I am not saying result will be certain but you generally associate Australia to push for a win in any situation.

Australia should bat at least until lunch tomorrow and try to put on another 100-120 runs then if the wicket looks like it could have something in it put Pakistan back in to face the last two sessions, other than that bat all day and wrap up the series.

But declaring overnight is not an option, why on earth would they do that.

Because it gives them the best chance to go up 2-0, if they are still looking at a result in this test?

 

[Big Mac]

Of course not. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose by declaring.

 

[Zeshan547]

Yeah Oz hold all the cards, and whenever they want they can declare, at worst they will get a draw. And i agree with op Oz should declare that will give them the best chance of winning it, but 2nd option of having a bash in first session and score 150 odd, and declare at lunch with a lead around 180, then go all out attack for 65 odd overs, with 5 or 6 slips and man all around the batsman, and then we shall see how tough are these pak batsman really are under the pump, and i won't be surprise if pak bundle out under 160 in 50 overs, and all the great batting effort in 1st inning will be ruined.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

I doubt it. They'll look to rest their bowlers for as long as possible.

 

[Xoib]

any rain expected tommorow if there is no rain we will lose.

 

[Gilly]

Because it gives them the best chance to go up 2-0, if they are still looking at a result in this test?

No their best chance is to bat until lunch racking up 100+ runs then putting Pak back in, make the batsmen stand in the field for a couple of hours first.

Declaring would be the best thing for Pakistan but that's not going to happen.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

No their best chance is to bat until lunch racking up 100+ runs then putting Pak back in, make the batsmen stand in the field for a couple of hours first.

Declaring would be the best thing for Pakistan but that's not going to happen.

Help me understand this.


As I see it the pitch is devoid of any demons so in all situations draw is the most probable result but given Pak's inconsistent batting overseas, they are prone to a collapse especially if put under the pump. Pakistan don't have the batting to quickly put up 180-200, in fact if they do try it could only induce a collapse.

Draw will hurt them more than you as they lose the opportunity to win the series.

Australia will want to seal the series off at MCG because SCG will bring in the Yasir threat if the pitch is the typical SCG wicket that helps spinners.

 

[Gilly]

Help me understand this.


As I see it the pitch is devoid of any demons so in all situations draw is the most probable result but given Pak's inconsistent batting overseas, they are prone to a collapse especially if put under the pump. Pakistan don't have the batting to quickly put up 180-200, in fact if they do try it could only induce a collapse.

Draw will hurt them more than you as they lose the opportunity to win the series.

Australia will want to seal the series off at MCG because SCG will bring in the Yasir threat if the pitch is the typical SCG wicket that helps spinners.

Yasir is not a threat to Australia, Australia would be confident of out bowling and out batting Pak at the SCG.

 

[Vivek_86]

Your last two bowling innings suggest otherwise.

Even greater reason not to declare

 

[kingusama92]

That's a move you pull out when you're down 1-0 in a series.

Would turn Day 5 into a fantastic finish.

 

[JibranAnsari]

They should bat 25 more overs , add 150 and then get pakistan out in 60 overs.

 

[Zeshan547]

Do you guys [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION] think that on this pitch, this pak batting and this captain misbah can pull this if Oz declare overnight, "score 220 in 40 odd overs and then try to shoot out Oz under their target of 200 inside 60 overs" do you really think this can happen in practical terms?

 

[thelandofthebravepeople]

Does not matter what they do. It will be 100% draw because the pitch is total flat and it's not going to change for the last day. Effectivly Pakistan need to bat maximum 2 session to draw the game. Even the tail has been scoring runs, so I don't think it will be difficult on this pitch.

Most likely rain is going to eat 1 session if not more.

 

[Gilly]

Do you guys [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION] think that on this pitch, this pak batting and this captain misbah can pull this if Oz declare overnight, "score 220 in 40 odd overs and then try to shoot out Oz under their target of 200 inside 60 overs" do you really think this can happen in practical terms?

Not possible for Pak to win regardless of declaration, but if Australia do declare then Pak are just going to occupy the crease for the day and make Australia bowl all day, why would Smith do that to his bowlers. If Smith wants to make a play for the win then his best chance is to bat until lunch and get a total and make the Pak batsmen stand in the field for a couple of hours. Preferably declare 15 minutes after the lunch break.

 

[kingusama92]

Do you guys [MENTION=132373]Convict[/MENTION] [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION] think that on this pitch, this pak batting and this captain misbah can pull this if Oz declare overnight, "score 220 in 40 odd overs and then try to shoot out Oz under their target of 200 inside 60 overs" do you really think this can happen in practical terms?

I think it's more the idea of tiring your bowlers with a minimal chance of winning. This pitch has draw written all over it even with a declaration.

Let the bowlers rest and come out roaring at the SCG.

 

[Zeshan547]

Not possible for Pak to win regardless of declaration, but if Australia do declare then Pak are just going to occupy the crease for the day and make Australia bowl all day, why would Smith do that to his bowlers. If Smith wants to make a play for the win then his best chance is to bat until lunch and get a total and make the Pak batsmen stand in the field for a couple of hours. Preferably declare 15 minutes after the lunch break.

so in other words you believe that if Oz declare overnight they can't shoot out pak in 2 sessions? And then chase whatever slim lead pak have?

 

[street cricketer]

Bat for a session and try to rake up as many runs as possible.

Have a crack at Pakistan after lunch. It might still be a tame draw but you never know. Pressure does funny things to you.

 

[Pete Rose]

Australia's first priority as pointed out here (along with securing the series) is to manage the work load of its bowlers. So they should definitely not declare. Pakistan can do itself huge favors if they dismiss the tail very early tomorrow

 

[Gilly]

so in other words you believe that if Oz declare overnight they can't shoot out pak in 2 sessions? And then chase whatever slim lead pak have?

What I'm saying is Australia's best chance of winning is to bat until lunch or just after taking a lead of 170-200 then putting Pak into bat having to last for 50-60 overs.

 

[Pete Rose]

Bat for a session and try to rake up as many runs as possible.

Have a crack at Pakistan after lunch. It might still be a tame draw but you never know. Pressure does funny things to you.

I am hoping that Australia plays according to form and folds cheaply

 

[street cricketer]

I am hoping that Australia plays according to form and folds cheaply

I think an Australian defeat is out of the window here. The two probabilities here are a draw (which is more likely) and an Australian win (which is less likely). So even if Pakistan do get Australia out cheaply, it would only give Pakistan more overs to bat out for a draw as I'm pretty sure Misbah won't be making a brave declaration and risk losing the series before Sydney.

 

[Pete Rose]

I think an Australian defeat is out of the window here. The two probabilities here are a draw (which is more likely) and an Australian win (which is less likely). So even if Pakistan do get Australia out cheaply, it would only give Pakistan more overs to bat out for a draw as I'm pretty sure Misbah won't be making a brave declaration and risk losing the series before Sydney.

Yes absolutely. I would rather that we keep them in the field for longer rather than the other way around.

 

[Napa]

We're 1-0 with a test after this.

Ten wickets for a small total is impossible on this wicket

Maximum of 98 overs possible tomorrow. If Aus declares and Pakistan scores 180 in 65 overs, it leaves Aus about 160 to get in about 30 overs. Eminently doable for Aus. Pakistan batting is prone to collapses in such situations.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Yasir is not a threat to Australia, Australia would be confident of out bowling and out batting Pak at the SCG.

Sure you can.

you didn't answer how declaring would be beneficial for Pakistan though?

 

[Cricfan4eva]

I think it's more the idea of tiring your bowlers with a minimal chance of winning. This pitch has draw written all over it even with a declaration.

Let the bowlers rest and come out roaring at the SCG.

That's one way to see it but Australia are in a position to force Pakistan to make a play. If they declare overnight, onus would be on Misbah and Pakistan to at least attempt for a win, You think if Pak come out batting tomorrow, they will bat out at 2-2.5 rpo to draw the game? I don't see him escaping criticism if he does approach it that way. On other hand if Pak do try and look to set up a competitive total, Pak may collapse.

Either way unless Australia's tail wags they will end up bowling 60-70 overs but if they do bat till lunch. Pakistan most certainly will shut shop.

 

[Gilly]

you didn't answer how declaring would be beneficial for Pakistan though?

Because their opening batsmen would not have stood in the field for a couple of hours, their bowlers could put their feet up and rest.

 

[Gilly]

That's one way to see it but Australia are in a position to force Pakistan to make a play. If they declare overnight, onus would be on Misbah and Pakistan to at least attempt for a win, You think if Pak come out batting tomorrow, they will bat out at 2-2.5 rpo to draw the game? I don't see him escaping criticism if he does approach it that way. On other hand if Pak do try and look to set up a competitive total, Pak may collapse.

Either way unless Australia's tail wags they will end up bowling 60-70 overs but if they do bat till lunch. Pakistan most certainly will shut shop.

That's what Smith would be hoping, bring the fielders in and start peppering them with short balls.

 

[troodon]

Does not matter what they do. It will be 100% draw because the pitch is total flat and it's not going to change for the last day. Effectivly Pakistan need to bat maximum 2 session to draw the game. Even the tail has been scoring runs, so I don't think it will be difficult on this pitch.

Most likely rain is going to eat 1 session if not more.

Came to say exactly this.

This is a joke pitch only made to troll bowlers and their averages. Aus will be smart not to bowl on these pitches again.

 

[mumtaz]

Australia would and should declare about 40 minutes before lunch so that they can get Starc and Hazelwood to have two cracks with the new ball either side of lunch. That gives them their best chance.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

If AUS wins this match, will be one of their greatest test match comebacks ala Sydney 2010.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

If AUS wins this match, will be one of their greatest test match comebacks ala Sydney 2010.

How is it a come-back? They were never in a position to lose this test.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

How is it a come-back? They were never in a position to lose this test.

Neither are they in a position to win it with so much of rain and PAK stacking up 443.

 

[Ami]

No chance...Aussies will go in set a lead of 150 by lunch...even if they dont, they wont lose this game.
Pak is vulnerable cos we dont really have the batters who are mentally tough or with any sort of shot making credentials.
Happy to Draw and hope for best in the last test.
Looking at Aussie batting it looks like 2-0.
No shame in it cos Aussies are way better than us just like the New Zealanders were.
Hats off.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Neither are they in a position to win it with so much of rain and PAK stacking up 443.

yes it would be a monumental effort but wouldn't call it a come back of sorts?

Sydney was a complete turn around. 2 different cases.

 

[Pete Rose]

yes it would be a monumental effort but wouldn't call it a come back of sorts?

Sydney was a complete turn around. 2 different cases.

these are matched batting line ups (barring the first innings at brisbaine)...I guess this match proves it.

 

[joly]

bat for an hour,score 130 odd more @ 10RPO,bowl 75 overs with a lead of 150+

 

[90MPH]

They shouldn't and they will not.

Pakistan shouldn't lose from here on such a pitch but it's cricket and anything can happen.

 

[spade]

This Australian team is an extremely mediocre one and is marginally better than Pakistan regardless of conditions, none of the players including Smith and Warner are world class in all conditions, I wouldn't be surprised if they suffer innings defeat in all the tests in india, neither are any of the bowlers good enough, Pakistan are playing with 2 rookies and 2 obsolete batsmen in the top 6 and on top of that one of the worst captains in the history of the game yet they are competing, that should really tell us a story, really sad state of affairs.

 

[hitthestump]

Australia should declare. Pakistan have a long and decorated history of belief defying batting collapses. There is no chance Pakistan has the bottle to try and score a quick 250 with one more test still to go, even less chance they can take 10 Aussie wickets on a dead pitch within one day. Win win for Australia.

 

[Gilly]

This Australian team is an extremely mediocre one and is marginally better than Pakistan regardless of conditions, none of the players including Smith and Warner are world class in all conditions, I wouldn't be surprised if they suffer innings defeat in all the tests in india, neither are any of the bowlers good enough, Pakistan are playing with 2 rookies and 2 obsolete batsmen in the top 6 and on top of that one of the worst captains in the history of the game yet they are competing, that should really tell us a story, really sad state of affairs.

Of course, they are extremely mediocre otherwise India wouldent be top of the rankings.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

I Hope Starc scores a century tomorrow.

 

[spade]

Of course, they are extremely mediocre otherwise India wouldent be top of the rankings.

Well and truly deserving no 1, not always can the rankings be taken at face value. This is one instance where India and perhaps South Africa can interchangeably claim the mace.

 

[Gilly]

Well and truly deserving no 1, not always can the rankings be taken at face value. This is one instance where India and perhaps South Africa can interchangeably claim the mace.

So that's Indias claim to fame, they can beat teams that don't contain world class players, hooray for them.

 

[ExplicitAI]

I seriously have no idea as to why we couldn't even run through this batting lineup in bowling conditions.

 

[spade]

So that's Indias claim to fame, they can beat teams that don't contain world class players, hooray for them.

You can only beat your opposition, whether they are bereft of quality is not our lookout. When Australia were dominating world cricket till a few years ago, I am certain it didn't sully their reputation.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

I seriously have no idea as to why we couldn't even run through this batting lineup in bowling conditions.

because they are not bowling conditions?

 

[Buffet]

What will Aus gain by declaring over night? Aus should bat to add 150 runs if possible and then declare. Pitch is super road and game will be draw. Even for winning, it's best to slog with these last 4 wickets and get as many as quickly as you can get. No point in driving bowlers to ground when 3rd test doesn't have much gap.

 

[Gilly]

You can only beat your opposition, whether they are bereft of quality is not our lookout. When Australia were dominating world cricket till a few years ago, I am certain it didn't sully their reputation.

I agree, when Australia were on top they could beat anyone anywhere, India can win at home but get destroyed once they leave their own turf. India are world class at home and chumps abroad.

 

[Napa]

Australia should declare. Pakistan have a long and decorated history of belief defying batting collapses. There is no chance Pakistan has the bottle to try and score a quick 250 with one more test still to go, even less chance they can take 10 Aussie wickets on a dead pitch within one day. Win win for Australia.

I think whether Australia should declare or not depends upon the answer to the following question:

What conditions will give the Australian bowlers a better chance of getting the Pakistani batsmen out, the first session or the last session tomorrow?

If it is the first session they should declare. If it is the last session then they should pile up some quick runs in the first hour and hope to get Pakistan out without having to bat again.

 

[spade]

I agree, when Australia were on top they could beat anyone anywhere, India can win at home but get destroyed once they leave their own turf. India are world class at home and chumps abroad.

That's true and unfortunately its going to remain that way because unlike Australia we are not a sporting nation we aren't as athletic and the longevity of our athletes is very short, we have so much of resources strictly for one sport and yet we are plain average in a sport that has only 6 decent opponents.

 

[Uzair Gooner]

This Australian team is an extremely mediocre one and is marginally better than Pakistan regardless of conditions, none of the players including Smith and Warner are world class in all conditions, I wouldn't be surprised if they suffer innings defeat in all the tests in india, neither are any of the bowlers good enough, Pakistan are playing with 2 rookies and 2 obsolete batsmen in the top 6 and on top of that one of the worst captains in the history of the game yet they are competing, that should really tell us a story, really sad state of affairs.

Off topic but didn't you say that Asad will struggle to register a single 30+ score in whole of Aussie tour?

 

[spade]

Off topic but didn't you say that Asad will struggle to register a single 30+ score in whole of Aussie tour?

Absolutely!!! i am flabbergasted not because Pakistan put up a fight but to expect Asad Shafiq play such a knock was beyond imagination, also i mentioned before, i enjoyed his knock so much that i missed K L Rahul play a good knock.

 

[MMHS]

Why? Even if they get PAK all-out for 170, they are not going to chase that in 30 overs. Miracles don't happen when you plan for it.

What worse can happen is, in chase of wild goose, Starc & Josh'll bowl 40 overs on Day 5 & then miss the SCG Test in 4 days time. They can do the opposite with PAK, in terms of Amir - beyond stats, if he is not there, Aussies will score at 4.5+ at SCG.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Why? Even if they get PAK all-out for 170, they are not going to chase that in 30 overs. Miracles don't happen when you plan for it.

What worse can happen is, in chase of wild goose, Starc & Josh'll bowl 40 overs on Day 5 & then miss the SCG Test in 4 days time. They can do the opposite with PAK, in terms of Amir - beyond stats, if he is not there, Aussies will score at 4.5+ at SCG.

I am surprised to see that many are assuming Australia will come out tomorrow with the intention of batting long and keeping Pakistan out in the field to tire their bowlers before the next test.

I know draw is the likely result but 98 overs are a lot and of the 2 sides only Australia is capable of enforcing things.

 

[Pete Rose]

I am surprised to see that many are assuming Australia will come out tomorrow with the intention of batting long and keeping Pakistan out in the field to tire their bowlers before the next test.

I know draw is the likely result but 98 overs are a lot and of the 2 sides only Australia is capable of enforcing things.

I dont think this Australian bowling line up is doing much against this batting line up. Nonetheless, if they survive till lunch they will have a go at pakistan.

What I am surprised at is the foregone conclusion that the Aussie tail can bat till lunch.

 

[MMHS]

I am surprised to see that many are assuming Australia will come out tomorrow with the intention of batting long and keeping Pakistan out in the field to tire their bowlers before the next test.

I know draw is the likely result but 98 overs are a lot and of the 2 sides only Australia is capable of enforcing things.

If you notice, I mentioned this in my post - miracles doesn't happen when you plan for it. 2 days left, AUS all-out 470 - PAK can crash out for 170 & lose the match; but it's really difficult to win Test matches with score are almost level in 98 overs, on a wicket that has produced 15 wickets in about 250 overs

 

[Sherlock]

I do have a feeling Aussies will declare once day 5 begins. Pakistan are known to collapse, so let's wait and see if a result is still possible.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Australia should bat until lunch tomorrow and get a lead of 150-200 runs. Declaring overnight is not going to accomplish anything. Australia will have max 30 overs to chase around 170-200 which is very very difficult.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Yasir will be decent on a fifth day pitch


He's been completely nullified recently
He's going the same way as Danish who was going great guns too in his first few matches

 

[Sadevdesai]

I hope they do !!!! I don't think they will. Why would they ???? They are up 1-0 with 1 more to go. So if this one ends in a Draw they are sure to have at least 1-1 after the 3rd Test. So I am sure they will not declare.

 

[Yossarian]

Australia cannot lose this Test.
Australia should declare at the overnight score. That will then leave two possibilities:

1. Pakistan bat till tea, and are either all-out or declare - either way, Pakistan will be a max of 200 or so runs ahead. Australia will then have around 30 overs after tea, give or take, to score these runs if they decide to go for it. If they lose a few wickets early, they could simply shut up shop and should easily bat out the remaining overs.
So either an Australia victory or drawn Test will be the likely possibilities.

2. Pakistan shut up shop, bat slowly, are 130 - 160 runs ahead at tea with only a few wickets down. After tea they bat for an hour or so, until the two captains shake hands on a draw, since there won't be enough overs left for either Australia to get the runs or for Pakistan to bowl Australia out.

 

[street cricketer]

Bat for a session and try to rake up as many runs as possible.

Have a crack at Pakistan after lunch. It might still be a tame draw but you never know. Pressure does funny things to you.

Right on money.

 

[oneindia]

Yeah Oz hold all the cards, and whenever they want they can declare, at worst they will get a draw. And i agree with op Oz should declare that will give them the best chance of winning it, but 2nd option of having a bash in first session and score 150 odd, and declare at lunch with a lead around 180, then go all out attack for 65 odd overs, with 5 or 6 slips and man all around the batsman, and then we shall see how tough are these pak batsman really are under the pump, and i won't be surprise if pak bundle out under 160 in 50 overs, and all the great batting effort in 1st inning will be ruined.

What a prediction!!

 

[JaDed]

Yeah Oz hold all the cards, and whenever they want they can declare, at worst they will get a draw. And i agree with op Oz should declare that will give them the best chance of winning it, but 2nd option of having a bash in first session and score 150 odd, and declare at lunch with a lead around 180, then go all out attack for 65 odd overs, with 5 or 6 slips and man all around the batsman, and then we shall see how tough are these pak batsman really are under the pump, and i won't be surprise if pak bundle out under 160 in 50 overs, and all the great batting effort in 1st inning will be ruined.

Congrats,some gem of prediction with numbers to backup.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Yeah Oz hold all the cards, and whenever they want they can declare, at worst they will get a draw. And i agree with op Oz should declare that will give them the best chance of winning it, but 2nd option of having a bash in first session and score 150 odd, and declare at lunch with a lead around 180, then go all out attack for 65 odd overs, with 5 or 6 slips and man all around the batsman, and then we shall see how tough are these pak batsman really are under the pump, and i won't be surprise if pak bundle out under 160 in 50 overs, and all the great batting effort in 1st inning will be ruined.

Its like you wrote the script for this match

 

[Zeshan547]

Congrats,some gem of prediction with numbers to backup.

that was writing on the wall, with pak batting it always so predictable, we have seen this script unfold so many times that you can see it coming from million miles, this teams is the worst under pressure, may be only BD can give then hard time for the fight of "easiest team to crack under slightest pressure" title. It's not even funny anymore, and we don't even expect any better any more. Don't which streak hurt more 11_0 Vs Ind in WCs or this 11-0 vs Oz in tests in Oz, which will be 12_0 after sydney,

 

[Noman]

If AUS wins this match, will be one of their greatest test match comebacks ala Sydney 2010.

Well it great match for Aus....