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Should ICC try to find a way to keep Test playing nations in the main round of World Cup?

Dr_Bassim

Dr_Bassim

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The disclaimer here is that I am not saying this because Pakistan crashed out.

I happily accept that Pakistan played poor cricket and deserve the knockout blow

But already Sri Lanka and NZ have been eliminated from Super stage along with Pakistan even before the main tournament starts

England might be knocked out tonight if rain doesnt relent in Antigua.

From broadcasting point of view, I dont care how many times USA wins or Scotland wins.

People want to see India vs Pakistan instead of instead of USA vs India.

No one wants to see Scotland vs Australia rather Australia vs NZ.

Without blaming the developing nations, who fully deserve to be in 2nd round, I have lost interest in this tournament.

I am sure SL and NZ fans also are done and if England is done that is a very poor viewing for an international tournament.

Thoughts?
 
They care only if India qualifies are not. They care to have a guaranteed India vs Pakistan game. They will make the format condusive to India vs Australia final. That's all they care about. So.far, it worked.
 
No. ICC shouldn't do that.

All nations have to play well (heavyweights and minnows) and qualify on their own. This is not a charity.
 
No. This elitist mentality will destroy any chance of spreading the game.

What are "Test" nations anyway and why are they important when

A). This is a completely different format
B). Tests are a dying format played seriously by 3 nations only nowadays?


If this means that Disney is no longer willing to buy ICC rights at that price, then so be it.
 
The eliminated major nations could've stayed in the main round had they played well.

Pakistan lost to USA
NZ lost to Afghanistan and West Indies
Sri Lanka lost to South Africa and Bangladesh

All 3 teams got knocked out fair and square. Nothing to do with rain.
 
Nope, why expand it then if smaller teams have odds stacked agains them and yes only concern is India, as long as they are in Super 8s, the viewership is there and no money is lost.
 
This is just not for Pakistan, Here’s an idea for the next T20 World Cup, instead of abandoning a game because of the weather, one super over to decide the game, much fairer to the team who may be chasing a result and the other team get a chance to win, if the Indians can play football on the pitch then players can field for one over
 
You play well and win to qualify. If you lose to minnows and lose big matches and are relying on Qudrat ka Nizam, you don't deserve to progress and qualify.
 
This is the best format. 20 teams and you want to expand the game. T20 is the future. ODI’s and Tests will die slow death.

If you can’t beat USA - go home.
 
Too many high horses in this thread.

If a tournament cannot guarantee that each team will play all of its matches to ensure fair qualification, then it's indeed a poorly managed one. Irrespective of results.

Group's of 5 ie 4 games scheduled for each team so fine margins. If you're then saying that 2 will be washed out, that's 50% of your chances gone down the drain. So what are you going to say to those teams then? Better 'luck' next time?

The ICC needs to stop sitting on it's bum under the farcical rain rule and instead do something about it.
 
Well that's what the format is. Two strong teams with 3 lower tier teams. In India Pakistan group , you had 3 lower tier teams. Who would have thought Pakistan losing to USA?

NZ, West indies with Afghanistan. but what happened here was that Afghanistan becomes much better in spinning conditions and took out NZ. Also NZ starting lineup was poor.
 
Pak and NZ can only blame themselves for the poor performances.

Eng will feel hard done by the weather.

This format is perfect and should remain.

Just don't play during rainy season - period!
 
Although I fully agree with most posters that we deserved zilch after losing to USA and India and the game really needs to expand..

However, rain can’t dictate who qualifies and who doesn’t because it doesn’t impact each team equally.

ICC needs to have a reserve day for each game and be willing to relocate games in the event of adverse weather forecasted at a venue impacting multiple games I.e Lauderhil, Florida
 
msb314 said:
Although I fully agree with most posters that we deserved zilch after losing to USA and India and the game really needs to expand..

However, rain can’t dictate who qualifies and who doesn’t because it doesn’t impact each team equally.

ICC needs to have a reserve day for each game and be willing to relocate games in the event of adverse weather forecasted at a venue impacting multiple games I.e Lauderhil, Florida
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Pakistan who were most benefited team due to rain. Your solo world cup was all due to rain

Stop blaming rain for everything. Sometimes it's goes against you and sometimes favour you.

Reserve day for only most important stage like Semifinals and final .
 
No team can complain about their non qualification for super 8.

Eng had their chance to beat Aus. They messed up with selection (no Topley) and in batting and bizarre PP bowling choices.

Pak should have topped the group but let go of 2 won games.

NZ were undercooked in game 1 and let go of a winning position in game 2.

SL misread NY pitch and messed up the Bang game.

SA, India and Bang have been average but they held their nerve in tight games on difficult pitches.

Aus and Afg have been the two top teams of tournament and deservedly storming into Super 8
 
pratiktc said:
No team can complain about their non qualification for super 8.

Eng had their chance to beat Aus. They messed up with selection (no Topley) and in batting and bizarre PP bowling choices.

Pak should have topped the group but let go of 2 won games.

NZ were undercooked in game 1 and let go of a winning position in game 2.

SL misread NY pitch and messed up the Bang game.

SA, India and Bang have been average but they held their nerve in tight games on difficult pitches.

Aus and Afg have been the two top teams of tournament and deservedly storming into Super 8
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True its not rain fault when teams messed it up themselves.
 
What's the point of a knockout tournament then? If they are so concerned they should host a series between big 3 and in the end trophy should be shared among them regardless of result.
 
Never. the associate teams are given exposure to the top level teams to improve their quality. This world T20 showed vast improvements from Afghanistan, Scotland and even Nepal proved competitive. If the test playing nations played crap like Pak,SL and NZ did, they deserve to be eliminated. (y) :ROFLMAO:
 
Should be 1 group stage and then knockouts.

Sometimes a team needs 2/3 games to warm up so they should have an opportunity to claw back points.
 
What makes sports interesting is when the underdog rises.

The best thing about the fifa world cup is its fairness in terms how teams are berthed and how an underdog has an equal chance.

Concept is simple, win games and qualify.

The only thing that restricts full members from qualifying in almost every icc tournament are the rain affected games. If ICC can fix this issue, there is no need to make the tournaments more accomodating.

I have always felt that when going into an icc tournament, the associate nations have an upper hand if rain is predicted as an associate nation only has to win one game against a full member and take advantage of the rain where points get shared.
 
Devadwal said:
Pakistan who were most benefited team due to rain. Your solo world cup was all due to rain

Stop blaming rain for everything. Sometimes it's goes against you and sometimes favour you.

Reserve day for only most important stage like Semifinals and final .
Click to expand...

You keep talking about the past but we have also been screwed by rain in the 2003 WC and 2019 WC. Not to mention lack of rain in the NZ v SL game effectively knocked us out in the 2023 WC.

So it is a totally false notion that we have always benefited from rain..
 
If you play 4 games like your scheduled to then at the end you deserve to be where you are, but if one team plays 4 games and the other one or two teams plays 2 out of the 4 because of the weather, how is that a fair reflection of the group and the tournament?
 
Its the job of ICC to expand the cricket in different countries.

Its not the job of rain to expand that.

A lot of people are being deliberately obtuse.

If England get knocked out tonight because of rain its a mockery that matches will be USA vs Australia, Scotland vs India and Bangladesh vs India.

Broadcasters lose millions in this and so does ICC.

How does a Scotland vs Australia match help the game grow?

I dont care if you throw Pakistan out of every World Cup.

But being 40 all out and chasing the target in 6 overs and 50 all out and chasing in 3 overs does not help the game grow.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Its the job of ICC to expand the cricket in different countries.

Its not the job of rain to expand that.

A lot of people are being deliberately obtuse.

If England get knocked out tonight because of rain its a mockery that matches will be USA vs Australia, Scotland vs India and Bangladesh vs India.

Broadcasters lose millions in this and so does ICC.

How does a Scotland vs Australia match help the game grow?

I dont care if you throw Pakistan out of every World Cup.

But being 40 all out and chasing the target in 6 overs and 50 all out and chasing in 3 overs does not help the game grow.
Click to expand...

Cricket is a small sport and these associates have zero market for the sport. Every world cup should follow champions trophy format.

If an associate wants to join then they must demonstrate in test cricket for a number of years.
 
They did have a very easy path for Pakistan and most of the major nations. USA may be the home team but their cricketers are part time - even in t20 this shouldn't have been a close contest tbh.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Its the job of ICC to expand the cricket in different countries.

Its not the job of rain to expand that.

A lot of people are being deliberately obtuse.

If England get knocked out tonight because of rain its a mockery that matches will be USA vs Australia, Scotland vs India and Bangladesh vs India.

Broadcasters lose millions in this and so does ICC.

How does a Scotland vs Australia match help the game grow?

I dont care if you throw Pakistan out of every World Cup.

But being 40 all out and chasing the target in 6 overs and 50 all out and chasing in 3 overs does not help the game grow.
Click to expand...

I really enjoyed that game! First, there were wickets falling everywhere, and then it was raining boundaries.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Its the job of ICC to expand the cricket in different countries.

Its not the job of rain to expand that.

A lot of people are being deliberately obtuse.

If England get knocked out tonight because of rain its a mockery that matches will be USA vs Australia, Scotland vs India and Bangladesh vs India.

Broadcasters lose millions in this and so does ICC.

How does a Scotland vs Australia match help the game grow?

I dont care if you throw Pakistan out of every World Cup.

But being 40 all out and chasing the target in 6 overs and 50 all out and chasing in 3 overs does not help the game grow.
Click to expand...
Teams who got bundled out at 40 and 50 are not progressing so bringing them up is irrelevant. ICC should ensure that they don’t play in rainy season or there should be a reserve day. You shouldn’t be losing to minnows when super eight is on line.
 
The IPL will always take precedence. T20 world cup is mickey mouse hence the absurd scheduling.

ICC needs to be more flexible with the Florida debacle as others have pointed out could have played the game in Dallas.

I also think an abandoned game should be 0 points each or perhaps an alternative to awarding a point each is before the main tournament begins to have in each group the teams play each other in a super over. And the winner gets 2 points for an abandonment. Just a thought.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Its the job of ICC to expand the cricket in different countries.

Its not the job of rain to expand that.

A lot of people are being deliberately obtuse.

If England get knocked out tonight because of rain its a mockery that matches will be USA vs Australia, Scotland vs India and Bangladesh vs India.

Broadcasters lose millions in this and so does ICC.

How does a Scotland vs Australia match help the game grow?

I dont care if you throw Pakistan out of every World Cup.

But being 40 all out and chasing the target in 6 overs and 50 all out and chasing in 3 overs does not help the game grow.
Click to expand...
Your OP and this post are saying different things.

What is your point?

Do you think ICC needs to ensure a more fair outcome for rain affected games or do you want them to protect big teams from being knocked out early?

Clarify your own argument.
 
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DeadlyVenom said:
Your OP and this post are saying different things.

What is your point?

Do you think ICC needs to ensure a more fair outcome for rain affected games or do you want them to protect big teams from being knocked out early?

Clarify your own argument.
Click to expand...

I want the main tournament to have main teams.

Simple.

Rain or no rain.
 
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Rain played havoc on a few teams fortunes but it's the same if the matches are conducted in England. It's absolutely atrocious in India too with the dew under the lights. People keep saying it's the beauty of cricket but it ain't. There is no other game where toss plays such a huge factor. The best place to play cricket is Australia. Unless UK builds retractable roofs, India knows how to control dew, only Aussies should be hosting tournaments. I know it sounds ridiculous but it's the only place where batsmen, bowlers can thrive, weather doesn't play a spoil.sport and where toss doesn't matter much.
 
rhony said:
Rain played havoc on a few teams fortunes but it's the same if the matches are conducted in England. It's absolutely atrocious in India too with the dew under the lights. People keep saying it's the beauty of cricket but it ain't. There is no other game where toss plays such a huge factor. The best place to play cricket is Australia. Unless UK builds retractable roofs, India knows how to control dew, only Aussies should be hosting tournaments. I know it sounds ridiculous but it's the only place where batsmen, bowlers can thrive, weather doesn't play a spoil.sport and where toss doesn't matter much.
Click to expand...
Australia literally has the highest number of washed out games in World Cups.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
Australia literally has the highest number of washed out games in World Cups.
Click to expand...
Lucky for.you and me, we have chat gpt.


The country that has experienced the most number of washed out games due to rain in Cricket World Cups is England. Specifically, during the 2019 Cricket World Cup, England saw a record number of matches abandoned because of rain. The weather in England can be quite unpredictable, and this has affected cricket matches on several occasions, especially during the World Cup tournaments.
 
rhony said:
Lucky for.you and me, we have chat gpt.


The country that has experienced the most number of washed out games due to rain in Cricket World Cups is England. Specifically, during the 2019 Cricket World Cup, England saw a record number of matches abandoned because of rain. The weather in England can be quite unpredictable, and this has affected cricket matches on several occasions, especially during the World Cup tournaments.
Click to expand...
Check the thread i have created on rain affected tournaments !
Last T20 World cup also had 4 washed games plus 3 rain affected games.
92 World Cup is literal mess of scheduling with 2 abandoned and 6 rain affected games.
Eng sucks as a venue, Australia is no paradise!!
 
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Aang_The_last_airbender said:
Check the thread i have created on rain affected tournaments !
Last T20 World cup also had 4 washed games plus 3 rain affected games.
92 World Cup is literal mess of scheduling with 2 abandoned and 6 rain affected games.
Eng sucks as a venue, Australia is no paradise!!
Click to expand...
I literally copied and pasted directly from.chatgpt which says England has the most number of washed out games . we are trying to find the best of all scenarios here. Impact of toss, impact of dew, impact of weather and balance between bat and ball. I even explained all this in my first post. Australia is the best place to play considering all these factors.
 
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Main teams shouldn't drop matches against the likes of USA if they want to qualify for the next round, can't hand out promotions to incompetent teams based on some seniority level.
 
I am very much on board with the likes of USA progressing to the Super 8 stage. I do think there should be better planning for rain affected games though, such as a reserve day, and the possibility of a bowl out competition / super over to decide a result rather than just calling off so many games.
 
Another question is which team is a "main" team? There are no longer 8 fixed main teams. Afghanistan is now also a main team. Even teams like Bangladesh and Ireland are not pushovers (they can beat teams like Sri Lanka and West Indies).

As far as I am concerned, only one "non-main" team made it to Super 8 and that was USA. Other teams are all Test nations.

I feel this tournament's format has been fair to all teams.
 
Not in T20. T20 is supposed to bring the gap in quality. Nothing is an upset anymore. If only some teams knew how to hold their nerve there would have been more upsets. Also pitch conditions bridge the gap even closer. Nothing illustrated this better than ODI world cup qualification for last world cup. On Zimbabwe pitches West Indies, Ireland and Zimbabwe all 3 failed to qualify.
 
I suppose people dont want to watch teams like NZ, Sri Lanka and Pakistan to play super 8.

I stick by what I said.

No World Cup without main teams playing main rounds.

This is not FIFA with a million teams who play football.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
I suppose people dont want to watch teams like NZ, Sri Lanka and Pakistan to play super 8.

I stick by what I said.

No World Cup without main teams playing main rounds.

This is not FIFA with a million teams who play football.
Click to expand...

New Zealand lost to West Indies and Afghanistan. There was no rain involved. They got knocked out fair and square. Same with Sri Lanka.

It seems like you want ICC to hold a World Cup with only 8 teams.

Cricket is not like FIFA but it is also not a 8-team sport. There are some very good associates out there.
 
If a team can't qualify on their own, that's too bad. This is not a charity. All teams have to win to progress. Nothing should be free.
 
sweep_shot said:
New Zealand lost to West Indies and Afghanistan. There was no rain involved. They got knocked out fair and square. Same with Sri Lanka.

It seems like you want ICC to hold a World Cup with only 8 teams.

Cricket is not like FIFA but it is also not a 8-team sport. There are some very good associates out there.
Click to expand...

Hold a double tie then.

I can almost bet Pakistan would win the reverse tie with USA.

One loss shouldnt define the World Cup.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Hold a double tie then.
Click to expand...

Double tie is not practical because it would make the World Cup unnecessarily long. Cricket calendar is already congested. Double tie was also never done in a cricket World Cup.

What you want to see is unlikely to materialize. Sri lanka and West Indies are likely to get eliminated frequently due to teams like Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Ireland etc.
 
kingusama92 said:
But are you really a main team if you lose to associate teams?
Click to expand...
Looking at Scotland's batting, Nepal's top order hitting i very much doubt Pakistan has that kind of hitters in their ranks. I n a bilteraly they can lose to them. Bangladesh lost T20 series to USA.
 
sweep_shot said:
Double tie is not practical because it would make the World Cup unnecessarily long. Cricket calendar is already congested. Double tie was also never done in a cricket World Cup.

What you want to see is unlikely to materialize. Sri lanka and West Indies are likely to get eliminated frequently due to teams like Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Ireland etc.
Click to expand...
It was done in 1983 and 1987 world cup !
 
Dr_Bassim said:
I want the main tournament to have main teams.

Simple.

Rain or no rain.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how the ICC can develop a format that is suitable for your taste buds while still maintaining a fair competition.
 
It seems most people are enjoying the Pakistani team being thrown out of the competition.

I can understand the Indian fans rejoicing.

Really sad to see Pakistani fans being excited at no Pakistan in Super 8.
 
We get those "ranking games" in u19 WC between the loser teams.

ICC should consider them for senior WC. That way, should India or Pakistan mess up in group stage, we still get full 7-8 matches of them. :afridi
 
Dr_Bassim said:
It seems most people are enjoying the Pakistani team being thrown out of the competition.

I can understand the Indian fans rejoicing.

Really sad to see Pakistani fans being excited at no Pakistan in Super 8.
Click to expand...
More like sad to see the decline of cricket in Pakistan. Not sure why but hopefully it can come back soon.

Every team including test nations have to earn the right to play super 8s. If associate nations are good enough to win, they deserve to play. No preferential treatment for anyone please for a change.
 
Why should the associate teams play in the World Cup if ICC wants only the established team in the super 8s? Are you expecting the associate nations to deliberately underplay so that the main teams go through?

Personally, I am enjoying how well the associate nations are performing in this cup - Afghanistan, US, Scotland and even Nepal have outperformed in this Wcup. The T20 format is a great leveler!
 
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Mockingbird said:
Why should the associate teams play in the World Cup if ICC wants only the established team in the super 8s? Are you expecting the associate nations to deliberately underplay so that the main teams go through?

Personally, I am enjoying how well the associate nations are performing in this cup - Afghanistan, US, Scotland and even Nepal have outperformed in this Wcup. The T20 format is a great leveler!
Click to expand...

So you would rather USA vs India instead of India vs Pakistan?

Okay.

My point is not to throw the associates out of competition but to devise a way that all major teams exist in Super 8 and 2 associates join and we can have a 10 team World Cup.

Anyhow, I can see how everyone loves Bangladesh, Afghanistan and USA locking horns in T20, so no point discussing anything.
 
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Dr_Bassim said:
So you would rather USA vs India instead of India vs Pakistan?

Okay.

My point is not to throw the associates out of competition but to devise a way that all major teams exist in Super 8 and 2 associates join and we can have a 10 team World Cup.

Anyhow, I can see how everyone loves Bangladesh, Afghanistan and USA locking horns in T20, so no point discussing anything.
Click to expand...
What you are suggesting makes sense in the ODI WC, but not in the T20 WC. Anybody can beat anybody in the T20 format, so it is no surprise that associates are doing well, especially since these wickets have not been very high scoring so far.
 
The fact that rain stayed out ensured fair qualification in the end for Australia and England.

Else, a sneaky associate was going through on the basis of rain dance.
 
How do we define top teams? Market size of the countries or top performers in the cup or icc ranking? Icc ranking is stacked against associates, since they don't get to play top teams! If market wise we need to see, then all the teams should play among themselves and then challenge India in a final, as India has highest market.
If top performers in the cup to be awarded, then keep it the way it is.
We got an India Pak match alredy, why need them in super 8 again. I would be curious to see if usa can continue being a giant killer! Couple of surprises are always welcome
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Its the job of ICC to expand the cricket in different countries.

Its not the job of rain to expand that.

A lot of people are being deliberately obtuse.

If England get knocked out tonight because of rain its a mockery that matches will be USA vs Australia, Scotland vs India and Bangladesh vs India.

Broadcasters lose millions in this and so does ICC.

How does a Scotland vs Australia match help the game grow?

I dont care if you throw Pakistan out of every World Cup.

But being 40 all out and chasing the target in 6 overs and 50 all out and chasing in 3 overs does not help the game grow.
Click to expand...

Nobody is being obtuse about this. England have qualified now. And , honestly the best teams have qualified.

Who among the eliminated teams deserved to go through in your opinion ?

Rain hasn't eliminated any worthy team from the competition. NZ were not eliminated by rain. Neither were Sri Lanka.

You said you don't care what happened to PAK. But rain , theoretically at least, only affected PAK qualification.
 
Why not finish the automatic qualification for all teams and arrange a qualification round for these teams? It would filter out many teams who don't deserve it.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Why not finish the automatic qualification for all teams and arrange a qualification round for these teams? It would filter out many teams who don't deserve it.
Click to expand...
Why should any top ranking team be automatically selected? Associate teams should also get a shot at defeating top teams, else they will never grow.
 
Doesn't really affect them the same way it would if India were eliminated.

Probably the main reason why they changed the World Cup format after the 2007 tournament.
 
Mockingbird said:
Why should any top ranking team be automatically selected? Associate teams should also get a shot at defeating top teams, else they will never grow.
Click to expand...
This is what I said.

ICC can scrap this auto qualification stuff and arrange a qualification round for all team.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Doesn't really affect them the same way it would if India were eliminated.

Probably the main reason why they changed the World Cup format after the 2007 tournament.
Click to expand...

If India had been eliminated the way Pakistan are, I can bet a million dollars this format would have been scrapped.
 
Adiram said:
I bet Pak will lose to USA at least 8 out of 10 times
Click to expand...

If Pakistan loses to USA 8 out of 10 times, then it's quite a fair call.

I am willing to assume that Pakistan defeats USA 8 Out of 10 times.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
If India had been eliminated the way Pakistan are, I can bet a million dollars this format would have been scrapped.
Click to expand...
I wish India got eliminated. But India hasn't lost to a minnow side since that 2007 mishap. If you look carefully entire T20 cup is a fluke tournament. 2021, 2022. You just have to have 2 good days bang you are through to final or semi-final. No team goes through rigorous examination before getting to final. Pakistan got their luck in 2022 by way of Netherlands beating SA. Or else they would have been eliminated first round itself. In 2021 on certain venues teams that batted second invariably won because of excessive dew. I don't rate this 2 year once cup. ODI world cup is the real tournament. Then Test series. I enjoy IPL more than these international T20 clashes where teams assemble once every 2 years and compete. Most of the times teams are mismatched.
 
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