Should ICC try to find a way to keep Test playing nations in the main round of World Cup?

[RyanRyan10]

It seems most people are enjoying the Pakistani team being thrown out of the competition.

I can understand the Indian fans rejoicing.

Really sad to see Pakistani fans being excited at no Pakistan in Super 8.

Some Indian fans might be celebrating here, and some India/Pakistan fans may have misconstrued your post as an excuse for Pakistan's elimination. However, it's important to recognize that not everyone who is voicing their opposition belongs to that group. A significant no. of posters here are supporters of associates and have consistently criticized the 10-team World Cup format.

It's important to recognize that cricket is not limited to an 8-team sport. Yes, it may not have the same level of competition as football, but it is still more competitive than many other sports. People who primarily follow cricket and football often have this misconception. Rugby has had fewer World Champions, finalists, and semi-finalists than cricket, but it has been hosting a 20-team World Cup since 1999. In the past, Japan struggled against most opponents, often losing in lopsided matches. Despite this, World Rugby maintained a quota for Asian countries, allowing Japan to keep qualifying for major events. In 2015, Japan shocked South Africa, and then in 2019, they topped their group and advanced to the quarterfinals.

Even in football, Asian nations also used to be present just to make up numbers. South Korea had a terrible record in the FIFA World Cup until 1998. However, over the last two decades, they have managed some upsets against top teams. Similarly, Saudi Arabia lost to Spain 8-0 in 2002, but 20 years later, they shocked Argentina.

In cricket, we are witnessing a comparable rise of emerging/associate teams. The formats you proposed make it extremely difficult for these nations to qualify. Are you aware of the fact that cricket has lost many countries as early as the 19th century due to elitism? Several countries were denied status, which subsequently reduced cricket's popularity in those regions. Inclusivity is vital, and we must begin somewhere. The ICC has made the right call.

PS: I concur with the notion that we need to find a solution for rain-affected washouts.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Some Indian fans might be celebrating here, and some India/Pakistan fans may have misconstrued your post as an excuse for Pakistan's elimination. However, it's important to recognize that not everyone who is voicing their opposition belongs to that group. A significant no. of posters here are supporters of associates and have consistently criticized the 10-team World Cup format.

It's important to recognize that cricket is not limited to an 8-team sport. Yes, it may not have the same level of competition as football, but it is still more competitive than many other sports. People who primarily follow cricket and football often have this misconception. Rugby has had fewer World Champions, finalists, and semi-finalists than cricket, but it has been hosting a 20-team World Cup since 1999. In the past, Japan struggled against most opponents, often losing in lopsided matches. Despite this, World Rugby maintained a quota for Asian countries, allowing Japan to keep qualifying for major events. In 2015, Japan shocked South Africa, and then in 2019, they topped their group and advanced to the quarterfinals.

Even in football, Asian nations also used to be present just to make up numbers. South Korea had a terrible record in the FIFA World Cup until 1998. However, over the last two decades, they have managed some upsets against top teams. Similarly, Saudi Arabia lost to Spain 8-0 in 2002, but 20 years later, they shocked Argentina.

In cricket, we are witnessing a comparable rise of emerging/associate teams. The formats you proposed make it extremely difficult for these nations to qualify. Are you aware of the fact that cricket has lost many countries as early as the 19th century due to elitism? Several countries were denied status, which subsequently reduced cricket's popularity in those regions. Inclusivity is vital, and we must begin somewhere. The ICC has made the right call.

PS: I concur with the notion that we need to find a solution for rain-affected washouts.

Correct. I don't think top 8 countries should overly focus on this T20 format. For them real format should be Tests and ODIs. If Top 8 teams focus on T20s instead then they are not top teams. Australia has won world T20 just once. They don't care as much as they care ODIs where you cannot pull off upsets easily.

 

[amit]

This is a T20 World cup and not a Test World cup, so why should "Test" playing nations get any preference. In T20Is we have seen any team can beat any team out there. Only Oman and Uganda have looked woefully out of their depth but other 18 teams have had their moments and any 8 of them could have qualified. Even in ODIs now the teams which can bat out 50 overs can beat any team on their day like how Scotland and Netherlands have shown us

Coming to this T20 WC, out of the teams to qualify, Afghanistan and Bangladesh are test playing nations only and have been beating teams ranked in top 8 regularly and even reached top 8 in rankings sometimes too and out of the 3 teams to miss out, Sri Lanka have regularly missed out on being ranked in top 8. They were in 1st round of T20 WCs in 2021 and 2022 and had to play qualifiers in 2023, there is no way they deserved any automatic entry

In this T20 WC Pakistan are out as they lost to both USA and India. USA would have beaten Ireland if it didn't rain and they were coming off a 2-1 win vs Bangladesh and beaten Pakistan as well. Sri Lanka are out as they lost to both Bangladesh and South Africa. New Zealand are out as they were thrashed by Afghanistan and lost to West Indies as well. All 3 of Afghanistan, Bangladesh and USA have made it on merit and the pitches suit Afghanistan a lot and won't be surprised if they beat India/Australia as well on those pitches and reach semis

In this T20 WC USA beat Pakistan and there were many thrillers too between Associates and so called big teams. Nepal lost to South Africa by just 1 run after Tabraiz Shamsi saved them, Scotland lost to Australia with just 2 balls to spare with Australia needing 89 off 7 overs at one stage before Marcus Stoinis saved them, PNG lost to West Indies with just 6 balls to spare and at one stage, WI needed 37 off 19 balls before Roston Chase saved them. USA had India in all sorts of trouble at one point before 5 penalty runs saved India and then Suryakumar Yadav finished it off, Netherlands had South Africa reeling at 12/4 before David Miller saved them and lost with only 7 balls to spare. In all these matches, it was 1 player which proved to be the difference and the matches could have gone either way

We saw in last T20 WC as well when these so called big teams were losing to Associates and emerging teams left, right and center. West Indies lost to both Scotland and Ireland and crashed out even before Super 12, England lost to Ireland, South Africa lost to Netherlands, Sri Lanka lost to Namibia and Pakistan lost to Zimbabwe. That showed that it would have been better to have all 16 teams start equally in either 4 groups of 4 or 2 groups of 8

Also irrespective of no. of teams, whether 16, 20, 24 or even more teams, all teams should start on a equal footing and no team should get direct entries to 2nd round, but they should earn it by beating likes of Ireland, Scotland, Netherlands, Zimbabwe, Namibia, etc to move to 2nd round

In 2014, 2016, 2021 and 2022, ICC gave these so called big teams direct entry to 2nd round and some of them looked out of their depth like England in 2014 and West Indies in 2021

If anything can be changed, then have a Super 12 instead of Super 8 by having 3 teams qualify. After the group stage of 20 teams is complete, have A1, A2, A3, D1, D2, D3 in 1 group of Super 12 and B1, B2, B3, C1, C2, C3 in the other group, this will make group stage bigger as points and NRR will be carried forward too and the big teams can play more matches but will also have to earn their spots and earn points to carry forward as well

Regarding the money being generated in this tournament, don't see ICC facing any losses. India is in Super 8 and in a decent position to make it to semis unless they screw up, India vs Pakistan has been held. USA fans will fly to West Indies to support their team, England and Australia have qualified and will bring their fans too. Bangladesh and Afghanistan fans will travel too to support their teams and West Indies being the home team will bring their fans and their music as well in all matches

 

[amit]

Some Indian fans might be celebrating here, and some India/Pakistan fans may have misconstrued your post as an excuse for Pakistan's elimination. However, it's important to recognize that not everyone who is voicing their opposition belongs to that group. A significant no. of posters here are supporters of associates and have consistently criticized the 10-team World Cup format.

It's important to recognize that cricket is not limited to an 8-team sport. Yes, it may not have the same level of competition as football, but it is still more competitive than many other sports. People who primarily follow cricket and football often have this misconception. Rugby has had fewer World Champions, finalists, and semi-finalists than cricket, but it has been hosting a 20-team World Cup since 1999. In the past, Japan struggled against most opponents, often losing in lopsided matches. Despite this, World Rugby maintained a quota for Asian countries, allowing Japan to keep qualifying for major events. In 2015, Japan shocked South Africa, and then in 2019, they topped their group and advanced to the quarterfinals.

Even in football, Asian nations also used to be present just to make up numbers. South Korea had a terrible record in the FIFA World Cup until 1998. However, over the last two decades, they have managed some upsets against top teams. Similarly, Saudi Arabia lost to Spain 8-0 in 2002, but 20 years later, they shocked Argentina.

In cricket, we are witnessing a comparable rise of emerging/associate teams. The formats you proposed make it extremely difficult for these nations to qualify. Are you aware of the fact that cricket has lost many countries as early as the 19th century due to elitism? Several countries were denied status, which subsequently reduced cricket's popularity in those regions. Inclusivity is vital, and we must begin somewhere. The ICC has made the right call.

PS: I concur with the notion that we need to find a solution for rain-affected washouts.

Yes I have seen many people, especially the football fans call cricket as 8/10 team sport. They need to realise ICC has 106 member countries and about 25-30 of them are serious about their cricket. Cricket is atleast a 25 team sport if not more and many teams are waiting for opportunities to play big teams and beat them as well like Scotland, Netherlands, Namibia, Nepal, USA, etc and have to wait for 2 years in T20Is and 4 years in ODIs to get that opportunity. More bilateral T20Is and ODIs involving Associates need to be scheduled and ODI super league needs to return as well

Also in this T20 WC, only Oman and Uganda have looked woefully out of their depths but other Associates have been very much competitive and deserve more chances

Also cricket has lost many teams due to this elitist mentality. Earlier cricket was kept limited to commonwealth and USA, Argentina, France, Italy, etc were lost. Later after Associate membership came in 1960s, in 1990s Denmark were lost, Kenya and Canada were lost by late 2000s/early 2010s. Out of these now USA are getting another chance and showing improvement and maybe Canada can improve with homegrown Punjabis in coming years, Italy can improve as they are getting good ancestry/diaspors players but Argentina, France, Denmark and Kenya are very much lost and will take many years and efforts to get any of them back

 

[jnaveen1980]

With more leagues popping up, these associate players get to play in different leagues. They will get better and better. Most of the USA team members were part of the MLC. Netravalkar got to bowl alongside Nortje and Jansen. We have ILT20, SA20. You can't bully european teams with spin anymore. Some players play better than subcontinental players. They will go from occasionally winning a match or two to consistently beating stagnated Asian sides

 

[Technics 1210]

ICC should hold an annual raffle for the WC instead of holding an actual tournament.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

ICC should hold an annual raffle for the WC instead of holding an actual tournament.

We would still find a way of getting knocked out by a minnow.

 

[RyanRyan10]

This is a T20 World cup and not a Test World cup, so why should "Test" playing nations get any preference. In T20Is we have seen any team can beat any team out there. Only Oman and Uganda have looked woefully out of their depth but other 18 teams have had their moments and any 8 of them could have qualified. Even in ODIs now the teams which can bat out 50 overs can beat any team on their day like how Scotland and Netherlands have shown us

Coming to this T20 WC, out of the teams to qualify, Afghanistan and Bangladesh are test playing nations only and have been beating teams ranked in top 8 regularly and even reached top 8 in rankings sometimes too and out of the 3 teams to miss out, Sri Lanka have regularly missed out on being ranked in top 8. They were in 1st round of T20 WCs in 2021 and 2022 and had to play qualifiers in 2023, there is no way they deserved any automatic entry

In this T20 WC Pakistan are out as they lost to both USA and India. USA would have beaten Ireland if it didn't rain and they were coming off a 2-1 win vs Bangladesh and beaten Pakistan as well. Sri Lanka are out as they lost to both Bangladesh and South Africa. New Zealand are out as they were thrashed by Afghanistan and lost to West Indies as well. All 3 of Afghanistan, Bangladesh and USA have made it on merit and the pitches suit Afghanistan a lot and won't be surprised if they beat India/Australia as well on those pitches and reach semis

In this T20 WC USA beat Pakistan and there were many thrillers too between Associates and so called big teams. Nepal lost to South Africa by just 1 run after Tabraiz Shamsi saved them, Scotland lost to Australia with just 2 balls to spare with Australia needing 89 off 7 overs at one stage before Marcus Stoinis saved them, PNG lost to West Indies with just 6 balls to spare and at one stage, WI needed 37 off 19 balls before Roston Chase saved them. USA had India in all sorts of trouble at one point before 5 penalty runs saved India and then Suryakumar Yadav finished it off, Netherlands had South Africa reeling at 12/4 before David Miller saved them and lost with only 7 balls to spare. In all these matches, it was 1 player which proved to be the difference and the matches could have gone either way

We saw in last T20 WC as well when these so called big teams were losing to Associates and emerging teams left, right and center. West Indies lost to both Scotland and Ireland and crashed out even before Super 12, England lost to Ireland, South Africa lost to Netherlands, Sri Lanka lost to Namibia and Pakistan lost to Zimbabwe. That showed that it would have been better to have all 16 teams start equally in either 4 groups of 4 or 2 groups of 8

Also irrespective of no. of teams, whether 16, 20, 24 or even more teams, all teams should start on a equal footing and no team should get direct entries to 2nd round, but they should earn it by beating likes of Ireland, Scotland, Netherlands, Zimbabwe, Namibia, etc to move to 2nd round

In 2014, 2016, 2021 and 2022, ICC gave these so called big teams direct entry to 2nd round and some of them looked out of their depth like England in 2014 and West Indies in 2021

If anything can be changed, then have a Super 12 instead of Super 8 by having 3 teams qualify. After the group stage of 20 teams is complete, have A1, A2, A3, D1, D2, D3 in 1 group of Super 12 and B1, B2, B3, C1, C2, C3 in the other group, this will make group stage bigger as points and NRR will be carried forward too and the big teams can play more matches but will also have to earn their spots and earn points to carry forward as well

Regarding the money being generated in this tournament, don't see ICC facing any losses. India is in Super 8 and in a decent position to make it to semis unless they screw up, India vs Pakistan has been held. USA fans will fly to West Indies to support their team, England and Australia have qualified and will bring their fans too. Bangladesh and Afghanistan fans will travel too to support their teams and West Indies being the home team will bring their fans and their music as well in all matches

POTW for me.

Those who oppose this format may not have closely followed associate nations, and they might not be familiar with the qualifying tournaments. The qualifying tournaments themselves have become increasingly competitive, as demonstrated by Zimbabwe's failure to qualify for this 20 team tournament.

 

[Mamoon]

@Dr_Bassim

Your stance is completely irrelevant unless you can back it up with actual viewership numbers & how it impacted the revenue generated.

When the World Cup is over, please show us the numbers for the group stage & for the subsequent stages of the World Cup.

Only then can we can gauge the impact of the elimination of Pakistan, New Zealand & Sri Lanka.

Assumptions don’t mean anything.

 

[mominsaigol]

@Dr_Bassim

Bro just saying, viewership aside. This would make cricket into a wwe type show.

This isn't about test nations being the main characters and icc having to bend backwards to keep them in while shoving the minnows aside.

They should not be losing to minnows plain and simple and just qualify.

NZ, Sri Lanka and Pakistan have themselves to blame.

 

[Rana]

Pakistan not making it to the next round of the T20 World Cup is pure justice

England had they not made it yesterday would have been pure cricket injustice. They are the best or second best T20 side in the world.

 

[Rana]

New Zealand not making it to the next round is partial justice

Their good cricketers fell off the boil in the recent past and have suffered as a result.

Do they deserve to go ahead of Pakistan? Ah hell yeah they do!

 

[Rana]

Sri Lanka not making it to the next round is also justice

You deserve this for bottling 350 against Pakistan in the 50 over World Cup and allowing guys like Abdullah and Rizwan to walk all over you!

 

[mominsaigol]

New Zealand not making it to the next round is partial justice

Their good cricketers fell off the boil in the recent past and have suffered as a result.

Do they deserve to go ahead of Pakistan? Ah hell yeah they do!

NZ currently loses to Pakistan. This team atm has a stronger c string then its main side. That's how out of it they are

 

[Rana]

NZ currently loses to Pakistan. This team atm has a stronger c string then its main side. That's how out of it they are

Good point but Finn Allen alone deletes the entire Pakistan cricket nation when he gets going

 

[mominsaigol]

Good point but Finn Allen alone deletes the entire Pakistan cricket nation when he gets going

Yeah but he's also out of it. Just not to the same extent

 

[Rana]

Yeah but he's also out of it. Just not to the same extent

He likes quicker tracks

 

[IMMY69]

The only gripe I have is the decision to play the tournament in the Caribbean and Florida knowing it's the rainy season.

 

[Technics 1210]

Is the OP for real?

There is a Super 8 stage in this world cup which was designed precisely for this reason. The expectation was the Test 8 will qualify. We know the rest of the story.

Also if the OP thinks a tournament should consist of just the Test 8 then there is a tournament for that too, and it is the ICC World Test Championship.

Time to take off those rose tinted glasses.

 

[amit]

The only team which is genuinely unlucky to miss out on Super 8s is Scotland. Pakistan, Sri Lanka and New Zealand lost 2 matches in their group and might lose a 3rd match too but Scotland thrashed Namibia and Oman, lost off the 3rd last ball vs Australia after scoring 180 and were dominating the match vs England when rains came

None of Pakistan, Sri Lanka and New Zealand can say they were unlucky and they are going out deservingly as they played poor cricket. Only Scotland can say they were unlucky

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The only team which is genuinely unlucky to miss out on Super 8s is Scotland. Pakistan, Sri Lanka and New Zealand lost 2 matches in their group and might lose a 3rd match too but Scotland thrashed Namibia and Oman, lost off the 3rd last ball vs Australia after scoring 180 and were dominating the match vs England when rains came

None of Pakistan, Sri Lanka and New Zealand can say they were unlucky and they are going out deservingly as they played poor cricket. Only Scotland can say they were unlucky

Spot on.

They have done wonderfully well. It's a shame their efforts aren't getting much press here as it's being overshadowed by the football team in the euros.

 

[Technics 1210]

If India had been eliminated the way Pakistan are, I can bet a million dollars this format would have been scrapped.

What are you on about?

India and Pakistan were eliminated in the 07 WC, after which ICC ensured that the 2 teams will play at least once in future World Cups.

 

[Saurav]

They can have two groups of round robin instead of this format

This will make sure one fluke win/loss doesnt matter and cream rises on top

 

[Mockingbird]

Why not finish the automatic qualification for all teams and arrange a qualification round for these teams? It would filter out many teams who don't deserve it.

 

[RamLakhan]

I think whichever teams qualified for Super 8's so far deserve it fully! NZ & Sri Lanka were below par without doubt. Afghanistan is a far superior team than NZ on Slow/Turning pitches, so they deserve. I think going ahead they will compete with top teams on most pitches... They are the fastest improving team in the history of cricket! Even India took ages to reach their current level, Bangladesh is still improving team in spite of playing for so long...

I think the cry is about Pakistan and the rained out game (which Pakistan was not even a part of!) If Ireland beat them today, they will be humbled further... Even India were on the verge of early exit for the way they have been playing (I think they don't deserve to reach Semi-Finals for the way they are playing and for the way they selected players...! Nepal's team selection is much better for the resources they have!)

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

I'm not sure how the ICC can develop a format that is suitable for your taste buds while still maintaining a fair competition.

By Ensuring victory for Pakistan

 

[Mockingbird]

The only gripe I have is the decision to play the tournament in the Caribbean and Florida knowing it's the rainy season.

Sure, it’s the hurricane season here, but the storm that hit Florida last week was one of a kind weather event - never heard of a storm there lasting days in early June. Nobody could have anticipated such level of flooding.

 

[Shaka81]

This format is very good, as it allows progress on performance and associate nations get to show the progress they've made. If teams like Pakistan have failed to get to the next round, then clearly they are lacking quality. Maybe a harsh lesson was required so they realise that even associate teams are moving ahead of them. Next time bring better players and a more modern playing style instead of complaining about too much competition.

 

[Thephenom]

This is not just because of us but super overs should only be used in knockout rounds when points mean nothing, a tie should be a tie

 

[sweep_shot]

This is not just because of us but super overs should only be used in knockout rounds when points mean nothing, a tie should be a tie

Agree. Super Over is not needed during group stages. It should be reserved for knockout games only.

 

[emranabbas]

Although I fully agree with most posters that we deserved zilch after losing to USA and India and the game really needs to expand..

However, rain can’t dictate who qualifies and who doesn’t because it doesn’t impact each team equally.

ICC needs to have a reserve day for each game and be willing to relocate games in the event of adverse weather forecasted at a venue impacting multiple games I.e Lauderhil, Florida

In that case bro we need to return 1992 world cup if it wasn't for rain we wouldn't have won that.

2022 - South Africa vs zimbabwe got rained out SA got hard done too we would been a group exit and not reached the final

 

[emranabbas]

If India had been eliminated the way Pakistan are, I can bet a million dollars this format would have been scrapped.

I think they got eliminated 2021

 

[Shafi]

Both Pakistan and SL shouldn't even play in this format. Full stop. These 2s are just of joke of the teams.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Both Pakistan and SL shouldn't even play in this format. Full stop. These 2s are just of joke of the teams.

SL failing here is a crime. These pitches are ideal for their spinners. THey have Pathirana who has been the game breaker in the IPL where his role is just to land yorkers. It was shocking to see him bowl back of the length into the stuffs wasting his yorker skills in the world T20. They are not getting the best out of him. Also they bat deep.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think they got eliminated 2021

Actually 2021 elimination did not have this first round. This time around we have an extra round just to accommodate Associates.

 

[RamLakhan]

Agree. Super Over is not needed during group stages. It should be reserved for knockout games only.

Hmm... With this Pakistan would have qualified due to better NRR as USA would have also finished with 4 points... Another conspiracy which Pakistan can think of propogating...!

 

[Mockingbird]

Agree. Super Over is not needed during group stages. It should be reserved for knockout games only.

Not an excuse. Both teams knew the tournament rules earlier on & should have prepared for the super over eventuality. The fact that Pak team took almost 10 mins to send their batters in for the super over showed that they were never prepared for it.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Not 100% related but I really missed Zimbabwe in this WC.

PNG had a decent opening against Windows then faltered. Zimbabwe must be kicking themselves at not getting into this world cup. They are a better team than Uganda and should have qualified from the regional stages.

 

[mominsaigol]

Not 100% related but I really missed Zimbabwe in this WC.

PNG had a decent opening against Windows then faltered. Zimbabwe must be kicking themselves at not getting into this world cup. They are a better team than Uganda and should have qualified from the regional stages.

Well Uganda beat them, they should have taken their own destiny in their hands.

Also tbf, I've seen the team, it's down on the water. Their only better then uganda in fielding atm and their names look better and are more recognisable on a cricinfo website.

In terms of form, their just uganda but with better fielding and even then marginally, they'd get butchered this cup as well.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Well Uganda beat them, they should have taken their own destiny in their hands.

Also tbf, I've seen the team, it's down on the water. Their only better then uganda in fielding atm and their names look better and are more recognisable on a cricinfo website.

In terms of form, their just uganda but with better fielding and even then marginally, they'd get butchered this cup as well.

They have some good players and would probably beat Uganda most times. They had a horrible start to the qualifiers. But yeah overall they only have themselves to blame.

 

[mominsaigol]

They have some good players and would probably beat Uganda most times. They had a horrible start to the qualifiers. But yeah overall they only have themselves to blame.

I still think we had way too many teams.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed usa, Canada and Ireland, Scotland etc. But these should be the only associate nations.

Uganda, PNG, and even Oman felt out of place.

 

[volcyz]

I still think we had way too many teams.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed usa, Canada and Ireland, Scotland etc. But these should be the only associate nations.

Uganda, PNG, and even Oman felt out of place.

Uganda, PNG, and Oman were there to inflate the main teams stats, pad them to nirvana.

Like the Lockie Ferguson joke of 4 maidens