Should Mohammad Amir be played only on lively tracks in elite series? (Outside UAE)

[hafeezrocks]

I think the pitches in UAE are dead and dull which offer nothing to the fast bowlers hence it's futile to play your Best Pacer on them and making him go through rigorous bowling spells when all the efforts and energy that he puts in is easily negotiated due to lack of juice in the pitches.

It does no good to the confidence of the bowler and might even take a toll on his body, leading to an injury. So instead of wasting a premier bowler on such dull pitches in series that don't matter it will be better if the bowler is allowed to skip them and be fresh for the series in England, Australia, SA and NZ where his potential can be maximized and honestly most fans would rather win an overseas series in England, Australia, SA and NZ rather than a series against WI or SL in UAE.

 

[Rayyman]

I think bowling in UAE will make him a better bowler overall.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Yes, the golden boy should get some more golden treatment

Btw which are those lively tracks on which he should be played? IIRC he averaged 40+ in his last tours to England, NZ and Australia

 

[Cric1234]

No he should be dropped if he doesn't perform which he isn't doing at the moment.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

What has happened to him? I don't think his bowling has ever fully lived up to the hype, but in this series he's actually been totally mediocre.

Mohammad Abbas has looked top-class, but Amir is actually bowling very poorly. Anyone knows why?

 

[IndYeah1]

I think OP is onto something. Amir at this stage, is pretty much like Bhuvanesh Kumar - a very good ODI bowler, who can be effective in tests if the conditions are helpful.

 

[IndYeah1]

What has happened to him? I don't think his bowling has ever fully lived up to the hype, but in this series he's actually been totally mediocre.

Mohammad Abbas has looked top-class, but Amir is actually bowling very poorly. Anyone knows why?

In the words of the great Bill Parcells, "you are what your record says you are". And Amir's test numbers after his comeback are positively pedestrian.

 

[CricFan2012]

Lannister Amir has deceived us all with this dross bowling! Seems like those series in 2010 were due to the conditions, an ATG has to be able to perform everywhere

 

[Rudi hater]

What has happened to him? I don't think his bowling has ever fully lived up to the hype, but in this series he's actually been totally mediocre.

Mohammad Abbas has looked top-class, but Amir is actually bowling very poorly. Anyone knows why?

He certainly, delivers against India.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

He certainly, delivers against India.

Does he? He averages 30 against us in ODIs. We would have loved to give him an even bigger phainty in test cricket but the present political condition saved him

 

[Rayyman]

Does he? He averages 30 against us in ODIs. We would have loved to give him an even bigger phainty in test cricket but the present political condition saved him

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...a-vs-Pakistan-Final-ICC-Champions-Trophy-2017

 

[ToeCrusher2]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...a-vs-Pakistan-Final-ICC-Champions-Trophy-2017

Still averages 30

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Don't play him in OZ either. He got smashed there by Warner and co.

 

[Rayyman]

Still averages 30

Well for Kohli he is the toughest bowler sooo...

 

[CadPakFan]

Still averages 30

But since his comeback, he averages 11 against you.

 

[Buffet]

Which pitches are lively?

 

[Rana]

His first over today pretty much sums up his luck in Test cricket these days. Fantastic bowler, just not getting those outside edges or ones that fly to slips more often. A shame really, lesser skilled bowlers seem to be far more luckier than he is in terms of taking wickets

 

[JibranAnsari]

Should only play lois.

 

[R0H1T]

Which pitches are lively?

Ind vs NZ 2002/03 IIRC only 2 scores above 200 from a total of 10 or 12 innings (per team) & just a couple of hundreds by Sehwag!

You can get those pitches today as well, ready to order.

 

[Plumb]

But since his comeback, he averages 11 against you. View attachment 76694

Ouchhhh!!! you just crushed the toe.. easy there..

 

[Buffet]

Ind vs NZ 2002/03 IIRC only 2 scores above 200 from a total of 10 or 12 innings (per team) & just a couple of hundreds by Sehwag!

You can get those pitches today as well, ready to order.

Well, what percentage of pitches are lively? You still need to bowl well. In NZ series, it was a green pitch and Amir bowled poorly to average 35+.

2002 kind of pitches are not going to happen often.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Ouchhhh!!! you just crushed the toe.. easy there..

Did he? I chose to have mercy on him but if you insist, those 4 matches include 2 t20 matches which were played on green tops, and you know what, out of those 4 matches, pakistan lost 3

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Well, what percentage of pitches are lively? You still need to bowl well. In NZ series, it was a green pitch and Amir bowled poorly to average 35+.

2002 kind of pitches are not going to happen often.

Amir averaged 28 in NZ.

 

[Buffet]

Amir averaged 28 in NZ.

I stand corrected then.

Anyway, NZ series kind of pitch is not a norm. OP point about only playing in pace friendly conditions will result in playing very little test cricket. UAE is not a good place for pacers. That's 50% of tests for Pakistan. Then many venues are not pace friendly as well.

 

[JibranAnsari]

He failed in australia and in england.


Where is he going to play then?

 

[Chief Destroyer]

I stand corrected then.

Anyway, NZ series kind of pitch is not a norm. OP point about only playing in pace friendly conditions will result in playing very little test cricket. UAE is not a good place for pacers. That's 50% of tests for Pakistan. Then many venues are not pace friendly as well.

I didn't say anything about your argument only pointed out that your stats were incorrect.

 

[Plumb]

Did he? I chose to have mercy on him but if you insist, those 4 matches include 2 t20 matches which were played on green tops, and you know what, out of those 4 matches, pakistan lost 3

It was about avg. of Amir against the neighbor when can't justify change the topic to win/loss, green top and all sort of other stuff

 

[R0H1T]

Well, what percentage of pitches are lively? You still need to bowl well. In NZ series, it was a green pitch and Amir bowled poorly to average 35+.

2002 kind of pitches are not going to happen often.

It depends on the opposition tbh, NZ wouldn't (re)lay those kinds of tracks for India, since we've generally had better batting & bowling than NZ over the last decade or so. England have done it against India, 3 tests last series, because they can make use of such tracks.

With Jadeja/Ashwin/Kuldeep we aren't losing a series in India unless Pak play sometime in the next decade. Aus don't make lively tracks because their paper masters fold like nine pins, viz Hobart 2016.

Anyone remember 21/9 in SA, also Pak's horrendous tour when Steyn was near his peak? I'd say we've seen more lively tracks in the last 5 years than the last decade preceding it. That's more down to the quality of batters left, also the bowling stocks have dwindled as well, in terms of quality.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

It was about avg. of Amir against the neighbor when can't justify change the topic to win/loss, green top and all sort of other stuff

And the average is still 30 against us in Odis, I didn't change the topic, you guys did by bringing "since his return" caveat into the picture

 

[Buffet]

It depends on the opposition tbh, NZ wouldn't (re)lay those kinds of tracks for India, since we've generally had better batting & bowling than NZ over the last decade or so. England have done it against India, 3 tests last series, because they can make use of such tracks.

With Jadeja/Ashwin/Kuldeep we aren't losing a series in India unless Pak play sometime in the next decade. Aus don't make lively tracks because their paper masters fold like nine pins, viz Hobart 2016.

Anyone remember 21/9 in SA, also Pak's horrendous tour when Steyn was near his peak? I'd say we've seen more lively tracks in the last 5 years than the last decade preceding it. That's more down to the quality of batters left, also the bowling stocks have dwindled as well, in terms of quality.

I am not saying that lively tracks are not present, but you can't have strategy to play one pacer only when you get lively tracks. That will mean playing very little test cricket.

 

[Adil_94]

what kind of a thread is this. Thats like saying should Kohli only play on tracks that dont have grass or on grounds that have clear skies.

Amir has to learn how to get wickets in the UAE. if he fails to be successful in unfriendly conditions then he just isnt as good as some think he is. especially in Test Cricket

 

[sachin100]

Looking at the responses from amir fan boys it looks like they had given up on amir the test bowler and hyping amir the odi bowler.

What a fall? From next wasim to being satisfied with his occasional brilliance in ODI's

 

[CadPakFan]

Did he? I chose to have mercy on him but if you insist, those 4 matches include 2 t20 matches which were played on green tops, and you know what, out of those 4 matches, pakistan lost 3

And in those matches, he got Rohit Sharma to eat his words on Amir being an "average bowler", nearly getting Pakistan to defend 83 but Pakistan would've won the Asia cup encounter had the umpire given Kohli out LBW. He got Kohli "The King Of Run Chases" out for 5 even after being dropped the ball before. Not to mention in those games Jasprit Bumrah averages 65, Economy 6.23 and SR 63.

 

[sachin100]

And in those matches, he got Rohit Sharma to eat his words on Amir being an "average bowler", nearly getting Pakistan to defend 83 but Pakistan would've won the Asia cup encounter had the umpire given Kohli out LBW. He got Kohli "The King Of Run Chases" out for 5 even after being dropped the ball before. Not to mention in those games Jasprit Bumrah averages 65, Economy 6.23 and SR 63.

Still he averages 30 against india which is nothing to boast off.

Even harbhajan singh thrashed him for sixers in asia cup.

 

[Ellipsism]

What sort of argument is this? If you can't perform outside of your comfort zone, then frankly your not an international level cricketer.

Why should we place Amir on this high pedestal, like he's above this level; his fans have ran out of excuses to bulwark his performances and have resorted to saying there's no need for him to go all in and all out against 'minnows'; like he's exhibited the ability to perform in "elite overseas series". Took 5 wickets in a three test series against Aus and averaged 40 odd against England. Some performance in elite series, eh?

 

[AlizeeFan]

What sort of argument is this? If you can't perform outside of your comfort zone, then frankly your not an international level cricketer.

Why should we place Amir on this high pedestal, like he's above this level; his fans have ran out of excuses to bulwark his performances and have resorted to saying there's no need for him to go all in and all out against 'minnows'; like he's exhibited the ability to perform in "elite overseas series". Took 5 wickets in a three test series against Aus and averaged 40 odd against England. Some performance in elite series, eh?

Tbf to OP, pitches in Australia weren't lively. It's actually not bad strategy. Rather than taking it as preferential treatment, it should be taken as horses for courses scenario. Play 2 pacers in all matches and if pitch has something for pacers, bring him in squad. He can be 3rd pacer of the team.

 

[Shafi]

Yes, the golden boy should get some more golden treatment

Btw which are those lively tracks on which he should be played? IIRC he averaged 40+ in his last tours to England, NZ and Australia

Amir is not a test material. He is good in shorter format.

 

[Shafi]

Amir should concentrate only shorter format. Unfortunately he did not have talent to perform in Test.

 

[Pak_lover6]

I think he should be dropped from the side and should be given a clear message that if you want to be in the side then have to perform.

 

[CadPakFan]

Still he averages 30 against India which is nothing to boast off.

Even harbhajan Singh thrashed him for sixers in Asia cup.

And now even Kohli "The Destroyer" can't hit him for sixes.

 

[sachin100]

And now even Kohli "The Destroyer" can't hit him for sixes.

Haha. Indian team means kohli not alone. Others can do the same.

He did a runner against the same indian team in early match on ct 2017 when he is getting thrashed.

 

[IndianHero]

Amir is over rated and over hyped bowler world cricket has ever seen ! Indian Team white washed lanka at their home still Amir went wicketless in 1st test lol..

 

[Saj]

You can't pick and choose the series you play in.

I'm sure there are plenty of bowlers out there who would love to say that only pick me when the pitch is a green top.

 

[CadPakFan]

Haha. Indian team means Kohli not alone. Others can do the same.

He did a runner against the same Indian team in the early match on ct 2017 when he is getting thrashed.

Giving 32 runs in 8.1 overs is getting thrashed? https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-crick...k-4th-match-group-b-icc-champions-trophy-2017

 

[sachin100]

Giving 32 runs in 8.1 overs is getting thrashed? https://www.cricbuzz.com/live-crick...k-4th-match-group-b-icc-champions-trophy-2017

Thats what u r country fans told in the same pak passion site.

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