Should Pakistan be allowing West Indies to put up 250+ totals?

[Major]

I understand that its a West Indies homeground, but looking at the inexperience of the WI test squad, should we be getting 250+ scores from such an opponent?

I believe that we should be dominating this kind of WI side from the 1st innings uptil the 4th innings, as their squad is very unsettled, with many players shifting. Like in the last tour they had Bravo playing, now he has been replaced.

Or is it just me under estimating the WI side and comparing them to Zimbabwe.

 

[Abdul]

Yes you're underestimating West Indies. Don't forget they did well against India also.

 

[troodon]

This WI test side is an experiment by WICB.

Some notable names like Darren Bravo/Blackwood/Samuels are missing from their batting unit.

WI is batting exactly they way an inexperienced batting unit is playing.

WI bowling is mediocre. Joseph is new. Gabrial has pace with no brains. Bishoo is mediocre who shows up once every 10 Tests.
WI did a mistake of not playing Ashley Nurse. He is a much better spinner than Bishoo.

Pak are under performing with the bat. Centuries are there for the taking. Pak batsmen are not showing the hunger.

A young Indian team was scoring 500 for fun against these mediocre bowlers. I can't remember too many times in the past when an Indian batting lineup scored over 500 so easily as they did against WI in an Away Test.

 

[troodon]

Yes you're underestimating West Indies. Don't forget they did well against India also.

Rain saved WI on both occasions.

In one of the drawn matches, India had 2 days left to bowl out WI batsmen and win the Test. One of those days was washed out and the final day, Chase and Dowrich played out of their mind on a flat track and earned a well deserved draw.

The Final Test was also completely washed out after Day-1 Lunch.

 

[idrizzy]

Rain saved WI on both occasions.

In one of the drawn matches, India had 2 days left to bowl out WI batsmen and win the Test. One of those days was washed out and the final day, Chase and Dowrich played out of their mind on a flat track and earned a well deserved draw.

The Final Test was also completely washed out after Day-1 Lunch.

Playing against India gave them some experience, however little it was. I still think restricting them to less than 300 is always the aim, and considering that we have 2 debutants in Abbas and Shadab, that isn't too bad. Amir finally getting wickets isa great sign of better things to come. At 280/6 we were looking at a more even match but that morning session was great.

I'm not saying WI's are a competitive side (we should win all tests) but more saying that the team will gel more they play together. I can see us scoring 450-odd here, and bowl them out for under 250 in 2nd innings, leaving us 100 to chase in the final day

 

[Sarfarazian92]

What frustrates me most is that the same batsman (holder, dowrich etc) are consistently scoring against us. We haven't been able to identify their weaknesses. And if we have identified their weaknesses, we aren't executing the plans properly.

Holder is a good batsman, but that's about it. He shouldn't be scoring a fifty every other innings against us.

 

[Napa]

This WI test side is an experiment by WICB.

Some notable names like Darren Bravo/Blackwood/Samuels are missing from their batting unit.

WI is batting exactly they way an inexperienced batting unit is playing.

WI bowling is mediocre. Joseph is new. Gabrial has pace with no brains. Bishoo is mediocre who shows up once every 10 Tests.
WI did a mistake of not playing Ashley Nurse. He is a much better spinner than Bishoo.

Pak are under performing with the bat. Centuries are there for the taking. Pak batsmen are not showing the hunger.

A young Indian team was scoring 500 for fun against these mediocre bowlers. I can't remember too many times in the past when an Indian batting lineup scored over 500 so easily as they did against WI in an Away Test.

Same batting lineup that only recently scored over 600 and over 700 against England.

 

[aloo paratha]

Same batting lineup that only recently scored over 600 and over 700 against England.

You can't even read what you bolded yourself? AWAY TEST

 

[yasir]

Getting home teams out under 200 in first innings is not easy, every team will struggle to do that, unless wicket day one is super seamer friendly, which is not the case in this series.

Secondly Pakistan plays bowler short, that really shows in away test. Four bowlers, with only two seamers is not going to fetch you many wickets on day 1.

Even in 90s Pakistani legends were not rolling over teams, 150/2 to 250 all out, scoreboard were possible because of reverse swing. That kind of reverse swing is never going to happen again, world knows about it more, scrunity is lot more... plus in 90s we have two really world class seamers, now we have one in the making, others are make shift from series to series...

Pakistan's hope is that if Shadab develop at world class test all rounder like Strokes in next two years, Amir and Yasir's batting improves, that will allow us to play five bowlers, could really create penetrative bowling unit.

 

[IAJ]

I understand that its a West Indies homeground, but looking at the inexperience of the WI test squad, should we be getting 250+ scores from such an opponent?

I believe that we should be dominating this kind of WI side from the 1st innings uptil the 4th innings, as their squad is very unsettled, with many players shifting. Like in the last tour they had Bravo playing, now he has been replaced.

Or is it just me under estimating the WI side and comparing them to Zimbabwe.

With all respect, dominating any side under the current leadership is only a dream. So just forget that. What you can ask for is to win matches and somehow we are doing that.

And nothing wrong in comparing Zimbabwe to Windies. Zim embarrassed us in 2013 remember..?

 

[Hawkeye]

WI don't have monkeys batting for them. They're a cricket team.

And has a decent squad.

Even in street cricket you won't be able to get out a team under 250 in every match, if 90 overs per day are being played.

 

[Major]

Getting home teams out under 200 in first innings is not easy, every team will struggle to do that, unless wicket day one is super seamer friendly, which is not the case in this series.

Secondly Pakistan plays bowler short, that really shows in away test. Four bowlers, with only two seamers is not going to fetch you many wickets on day 1.

Even in 90s Pakistani legends were not rolling over teams, 150/2 to 250 all out, scoreboard were possible because of reverse swing. That kind of reverse swing is never going to happen again, world knows about it more, scrunity is lot more... plus in 90s we have two really world class seamers, now we have one in the making, others are make shift from series to series...

Pakistan's hope is that if Shadab develop at world class test all rounder like Strokes in next two years, Amir and Yasir's batting improves, that will allow us to play five bowlers, could really create penetrative bowling unit.

but this is a team where the most senior player has only played 25 test games.

I always believed that a test player becomes better after playing more games. And a team as of whole becomes a strong unit when it finds the right combination and parnters.

This WI team has different squad every 6 months.

And yet we are getting such scores.

 

[Napa]

Yes you're underestimating West Indies. Don't forget they did well against India also.

Rain saved WI on both occasions.

In one of the drawn matches, India had 2 days left to bowl out WI batsmen and win the Test. One of those days was washed out and the final day, Chase and Dowrich played out of their mind on a flat track and earned a well deserved draw.

The Final Test was also completely washed out after Day-1 Lunch.

WI was thoroughly outclassed by India. As Troodon says, if it was not for rain WI would have lost 4-0. Only in the 2nd Test WI put up a semblance of a fight, but that one too they were saved by rain having cost more than a days play.

 

[ethan hunt]

WI was thoroughly outclassed by India. As Troodon says, if it was not for rain WI would have lost 4-0. Only in the 2nd Test WI put up a semblance of a fight, but that one too they were saved by rain having cost more than a days play.

India failed to take more than 2 wickets on the 5th day. Give credit to the young westindies team that showed more character than india even with the likes of Chandrika etc . How were they saved by the rain ?? If anything they had the lead when the test match ended and india were no closer to picking up a wicket.
A day was washed out in the first test as well but Pakistan won easily.

 

[Napa]

India failed to take more than 2 wickets on the 5th day. Give credit to the young westindies team that showed more character than india even with the likes of Chandrika etc . How were they saved by the rain ?? If anything they had the lead when the test match ended and india were no closer to picking up a wicket.
A day was washed out in the first test as well but Pakistan won easily.

These were the scores in the 2nd Test:
West Indies 196 and 388/6 (104 ov); India 500/9d

So without the day lost due to rain we can expect WI to have a lead of maybe 150-200, which India should have easily chased down.

Given the following performance of WI in the third Test (total of 2 innings less than India's first innings), it doesn't appear WI would have survived the second Test without the help of rain:

India 353 and 217/7d; West Indies 225 and 108 (47.3 ov, target: 346)

Also since the India series, WI have lost their best batsman Bravo.

 

[ethan hunt]

Why would india have chased down 200 easily on the fifth day ?
India maynot even have bowled them out tbf .Its a recurring theme with india , happened in newzealand as well. Inability to take 20 wickets overseas is well documented . Happens far too often abroad.
Again lets give the credit to chase and the westindies.

 

[Napa]

Why would india have chased down 200 easily on the fifth day ?
India maynot even have bowled them out tbf .Its a recurring theme with india , happened in newzealand as well. Inability to take 20 wickets overseas is well documented . Happens far too often abroad.
Again lets give the credit to chase and the westindies.

Instead of speculating, look at the results when the game was actually played. With the exception of the Chase-Holder stand in the 2nd game, WI was destroyed both batting and bowling.