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Is it so beneath us that we wont do it? Can the future of our next generations not be taken into account and for us to show a different side to the world? Or will it be considered a sign of weakness?
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Should Pakistan take the initiative in seeking peace with India?
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Syed1
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Pakistan has always been the one that has extended an arm of friendship. Meanwhile, India has been funding and instigating terrorism in Pakistan. There can be no peace between India and Pakistan till a guy like Modi is at the head in India.
Pakistan has the most pro-India PM we have had in decades yet the relations are near an all-time low, doesn't take a lot to guess why is that the case.
Pakistan has the most pro-India PM we have had in decades yet the relations are near an all-time low, doesn't take a lot to guess why is that the case.
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I think in your statement is the actual issue. We "think" we have always extended our hand of friendship but then Kargil etc are all issues that we need to face also.
Couch Cricketer
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Not possible as Kashmir issue which both will never agree on as even if the people in power would be willing to it would be political suicide specially in India. In Pakistan military is powerful because of threat of India if no threat they will loose power.
Another thing Pakistan and India were a continent like Europe of many nation's they have used each other to unite these separate nations as they would have broken up otherwise. Remove the other as a threat and the nation's would want to seperate on race religon and sect. Although I think India will be more successful in staying together as they have devolved the power to the states.
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Another thing Pakistan and India were a continent like Europe of many nation's they have used each other to unite these separate nations as they would have broken up otherwise. Remove the other as a threat and the nation's would want to seperate on race religon and sect. Although I think India will be more successful in staying together as they have devolved the power to the states.
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No, never! Enough of this "aman ki asha" rubbish and "cricket diplomacy". To India and it's people peace means agreeing to all their demands like us giving up on Kashmir whilst they continue terror activities in Pakistan by sending the likes of Kulbushan. So we did Kargil, hard luck!. There can be no peace with any government or armed forces of India so the best is just to ignore them until these problems are sorted. After thrashing them at the Cricket I couldn't care less if we ever play them again or not. From our perspective I want a fiercely patriotic man is our Prime Minister who will not give Bharat at inch. This is not an overall negative reflection of Indian people as a whole.
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Saeed
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Completely agree. Pakistan should be always open to friendly relations with India, applies to other neighboring countries too. To those saying we can't because we have issues with them. Well you seek peace with with foes not friends. Never heard anyone saying oh we are trying to have friendly relations with our allies. If we were truly for peace we would find hundreds of excuses to have peace.
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Lets have more votes!
Wasim_Waqar
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Until Kashmir valley becomes part of Pakistan, the answer is no. They aren't sincere.
The India-China situation is getting very serious with the Chinese threatening war over the Sikkim stand off.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/chin...-chinese-expert-1720367?pfrom=home-topstories I guarantee you boy's that China will not give India even an inch and will crush them in the event of any war. This is the only language that India who has territorial disputes with every neighbour understands. Modi is just trying to impress Trump by showing him he can handle even defeat China. Keep dreaming! As I have said many Indian people are indeed nice, polite and sincere. It is the country and it's attitude people like me have a massive problem with. China is not asking for an peace deals rather demanding Indian back off unless it wants another 1962 done to them.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/chin...-chinese-expert-1720367?pfrom=home-topstories I guarantee you boy's that China will not give India even an inch and will crush them in the event of any war. This is the only language that India who has territorial disputes with every neighbour understands. Modi is just trying to impress Trump by showing him he can handle even defeat China. Keep dreaming! As I have said many Indian people are indeed nice, polite and sincere. It is the country and it's attitude people like me have a massive problem with. China is not asking for an peace deals rather demanding Indian back off unless it wants another 1962 done to them.
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The Pakistani Army has made it quite clear to Nawaz that there will be no reduction in tensions with India. That was part of the deal that Nawaz was forced to accept due to IK's agitation.
The Pakistani Army does not want peace with India simply because if there was peace, its own power within Pakistan would lessen. People would then question its relevance. Currently it monopolizes both the political and the economic sectors. Bad for the common Pakistani citizen but great for the generals.
India is different because its Army has always been obedient to the civilian government.
The Pakistani Army does not want peace with India simply because if there was peace, its own power within Pakistan would lessen. People would then question its relevance. Currently it monopolizes both the political and the economic sectors. Bad for the common Pakistani citizen but great for the generals.
India is different because its Army has always been obedient to the civilian government.
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Romali_rotti
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I honestly don't know how Pakistan and India can be on peaceful terms unless Pakistan abandon's Kashmir. Abandoning Kashmir means majority of the money generated from the Pakistani economy would no longer go the Pakistan military which is something they would never allow.. It is too late for peace, this will unfortunately go on till the end of time, wish it was not the case....
ahmedwaqas92
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Lol you clearly have no idea what you're talking about do you now
Pakistan faces more threats almost 10x times more from it's Western and South Western Border than anything even remotely at the LOC.
If you think having 'peace' with India will undermine the armed forces relevance then clearly you have absolutely no clue about the actual threat concerning Pakistan at the moment and the ground realities of the country.
On Topic: I agree we should seek peace (should always be the first option) however, peace should be on equal and fair terms and not rolling over and letting India walk upon us. You get peace only when the other side wants peace in return.
Cpt. Rishwat
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Does India even want peace? I have heard many Indian members on here say it quite bluntly that India doesn't need peace or trade with Pakistan, in their eyes maintaining hostile relations damages Pakistan far more than it does India. In which case it's difficult to see what Pakistan could do to make a difference other than become a client state giving India far greater advantage. Pakistan would be better off dissolving as a nation IMO, that way at least Pakistan's problems would become India's. Not going to happen for obvious reasons.
Lol you clearly have no idea what you're talking about do you now
Pakistan faces more threats almost 10x times more from it's Western and South Western Border than anything even remotely at the LOC.
If you think having 'peace' with India will undermine the armed forces relevance then clearly you have absolutely no clue about the actual threat concerning Pakistan at the moment and the ground realities of the country.
On Topic: I agree we should seek peace (should always be the first option) however, peace should be on equal and fair terms and not rolling over and letting India walk upon us. You get peace only when the other side wants peace in return.
Until your countrymen understand why your Army runs bakeries and construction firms, your country will not progress.
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Arham_PakFan
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Lol you clearly have no idea what you're talking about do you now
Pakistan faces more threats almost 10x times more from it's Western and South Western Border than anything even remotely at the LOC.
If you think having 'peace' with India will undermine the armed forces relevance then clearly you have absolutely no clue about the actual threat concerning Pakistan at the moment and the ground realities of the country.
On Topic: I agree we should seek peace (should always be the first option) however, peace should be on equal and fair terms and not rolling over and letting India walk upon us. You get peace only when the other side wants peace in return.
This.
I completely agree.
Yossarian
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There will come a time when India will realise that it's economic success will be even greater if the rest of the world didn't perceive India as being just a step or two away from nuclear war with it's next door neighbour.
That plus the prospect of having a free flowing land border that leads onto overland access to the Asian hinterland, China, Russia, Europe et al, and the economic benefits it will bring to Indian businesses and the Indian economy as they/it locks horns with the other major economic blocks around the world, all going toe-to-toe, competing and fighting for the same markets.
Once India fully perceives the benefits to be gained by having peace with it's next door neighbour then perhaps serious moves might be made to find solutions to the current impasse.
cricketjoshila
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If Pakistan means for peace India will handover J and K.Never going to happen.If by peace Pakistan means status quo is kept and neither country will promote help finance hide anyone or anybody who is involved in separatism terrorism violence in the other country then peace is achievable.
But the question is if such an agreement is signed whats the guarantee that Pak Army wont do a Kargil or a OP Grandslam?
But the question is if such an agreement is signed whats the guarantee that Pak Army wont do a Kargil or a OP Grandslam?
proud_pakistani
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Pakistan has already tried that path in the past. It hasn't worked. India has always claimed Pakistans wrong doing in anything that goes wrong in their country. They are quick to jump the gun and that kind of hysteria has developed a very negative mindset of Indians towards Pakistan. I think Pak trying to make peace with India is like a dog barking up a tree. I don't see the point in Pakistan demeaning itself especially after Pakistan has tried before.
Greater chance of ET landing on earth. Ask the people what they want but we know India is to scared to do that. Stop supporting terrorism in Pak through the likes of Kulbushan otherwise the ISI will make you cry tears of blood in IoK which they are. There are never no guarantee's between arch rivals when one is sitting in Afghanistan causing trouble for the other. Good news is that for now China has India by the throat and all of your country on edge. We are just spectators waiting to happen when you will obey China's orders or else....
I love the Pak army for taking care of the pro India puppet Nawaz Sharif. Our next PM will be a patriot, insha Allah.
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cricketjoshila
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Take these threats elsewhere.LoL.Everything will be returned with interest.
You may be a chinese lackey we are not.
Who you have as your PM is no headache of ours.
ahmedwaqas92
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If you want to change goal posts, at least do it in a subtle and non obvious way dude
Nevermind, this discussion is futile and unending in the current political climate (due to obvious reasons ofcourse)......
If you want to change goal posts, at least do it in a subtle and non obvious way dude
Nevermind, this discussion is futile and unending in the current political climate (due to obvious reasons ofcourse)......
If you think I am changing the "goalposts" you obviously don't understand that the Pakistani Army desires to dominate commerce for the sake of plum jobs for its officers, and that desire requires it to maintain a constant tension with its neighbors.
The Indian Army on the other hand does not have to justify why it is running industries or deposing Prime Ministers because it doesn't do so.
The situation is not difficult to understand, and repeating the arguments ad nauseam is not going to help, so no more replies from me.
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Romali_rotti
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Agreed, China vs India would be a Chinese win in a war, no one is going to doubt that. If a war did happen, China would bed ridden India while India would put break China's legs and put them in a wheel chair. However if a war did happen, It wont be just India, the Americans, Japanese, Israel, Russia, Nato would all be on India's side while China has Pakistan lol, now work out the after affect..
Romali_rotti
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Pakistan will never be able to do another Kargil, we have that many spy satellites all over the sky now, that the entire Pakistan region is visible, which wasn't the case when Mushy launched Kargil war last time. We would know every move they are making, I am sure their military knows that, so it would be futile to even risk such a mis-adventure,...
No you are a Israeli tool! But Nawaz is a headache for us, Modi is just a chicken! I think China standing at your border is ready to return everything! We are just spectators for now yet I am sure the ISI will be watching closely.
China would also have Pak, the Middle East and Russia on it's side. India having always been western boot lickers will have NATO on its side. I am on the side of Pak, China and Russia moreover remember that China is not alone either.
cricketjoshila
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Calm down calm down.Geo politics dont run on basis of street fight fantasies.
cricketjoshila
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These countries came and told you which side they will be?
Pakistanian
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Hasn't that always been the case?!? Pakistan has done more than it's part to reach out to India, it's the Indian govt that doesn't want to make peace. It's in India's interest to be hostile to Pakistan cause they believe it benefits them by being part of the 'war on terror' narrative.
Pakistanian
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cricketjoshila
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So what was Kargil?OP Gibraltar?
Yossarian
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If a fully fledged all out war broke out between China and India, we're all stuffed. Whether you're India, China, USA, Russia or Europe.
Reason? Even if no one else gets involved, a fully fledged all out war between India and China will cause massive economic damage to both, which in turn will have a ripple effect on all other economies around the world. China and USA's direct trade with each other was $648.2 billion in 2016. Imagine if there was a serious disruption to that? And that's without even allowing for disruption to indirect trade (eg Chinese and Japan trade being disrupted, leading to economic issues in Japan, which in turn affects Japanese - USA trade).
The reality is that any major all out war between any two large industrial powers will have a disastrous effect on the economies around the world - which in turn could cause more conflict and more wars.
Even an all out war between India and Pakistan, especially if it involves nukes, will be disastrous politically and economically for the rest of the world.
Gabbar Singh
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The side which is suffering the most from the status quo will be the one which takes the initiative imo. If they are thinking logically of course.
Well yes they did. You just need to join the dots and understand who is standing where. India is on the wrong side of history being an Eastern country depending on the west to save it from the rage of China, Pak and Russia. By the same token how do you know the American's will be on your side as prophesied in your post 26?. Russia and America are never on the same side although your fear of China and Muslim unity can be seen in your comments.
Pakistanian
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That was like 20 years ago, and Gibralatar was 50 years ago. The past 15 years, it's been Pakistan that have been reaching out to India and trying to make peace, especially since the Mumbai attacks and Modi getting elected.
Varun
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Nothing will happen. There's not enough enmity on both sides for a full-blown hot war.
Romali_rotti
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There wont be any war, you know it, I know it... India/ China has an annual trade of 100 billion per year, no way China would risk losing that and to have Indian nukes falling on them. Even though India might be destroyed China, China will also be wrecked....
Every war starts with a stand off. India is scared and so are you, not China or it's people.
Looking back, the Musharraf era was a golden opportunity missed to secure peace between Pakistan and India. It seemed agreement on Kashmir was close to being reached.
Then Musharraf went to war with the judiciary and left office - shortly after which Mumbai happened. Since then, with the backdrop of rising nationalism, no Indian PM can afford to be seen as appeasing Pakistan especially without suspects being handed over.
Even a perceived hardliner like Modi was heavily criticised after Pathankot for meeting with Sharif the previous week. As [MENTION=7729]Couch Cricketer[/MENTION] says any compromise, particularly on the central issue of Kashmir, would be met with a major backlash domestically for both parties, and who would be prepared to make such a political sacrifice ?
Pakistan also needs to rethink its policies. So-called "state assets" have not liberated an inch of Kashmir, the policy to bleed India by a thousand cuts is only leading to isolation. India too must realise resentment caused by its heavy military presence. Its time to negotiate a peaceful settlement on Kashmir that protects the political and human rights of Kashmiris. There is no military solution.
Hopefully future generations will realise the futility of an unending cold war.
Then Musharraf went to war with the judiciary and left office - shortly after which Mumbai happened. Since then, with the backdrop of rising nationalism, no Indian PM can afford to be seen as appeasing Pakistan especially without suspects being handed over.
Even a perceived hardliner like Modi was heavily criticised after Pathankot for meeting with Sharif the previous week. As [MENTION=7729]Couch Cricketer[/MENTION] says any compromise, particularly on the central issue of Kashmir, would be met with a major backlash domestically for both parties, and who would be prepared to make such a political sacrifice ?
Pakistan also needs to rethink its policies. So-called "state assets" have not liberated an inch of Kashmir, the policy to bleed India by a thousand cuts is only leading to isolation. India too must realise resentment caused by its heavy military presence. Its time to negotiate a peaceful settlement on Kashmir that protects the political and human rights of Kashmiris. There is no military solution.
Hopefully future generations will realise the futility of an unending cold war.
Yossarian
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You do realise that my post was in response to your own post mentioning the possibility of war, and how "India would put break China's legs and put them in a wheel chair" if war did take place, and how India will have so many friends on its side. Whereas I'm merely pointing out that everybody loses in such a war, involved or not, and not just the two main combatants.
Having said that, major all out war can sometimes come about from the strangest of circumstances, with a fairly minor incidence at the heart of it acting as the trigger. WW1 is one such example.
pakistan cricket fan
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Oneday hopefully we will have peace but for that India has to stop sending terrorist such as Kulbushan Jadav and same for Pakistan as well.
Romali_rotti
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You do realize my post was in response to PAK Lfc's post about how China may go to war against India ? and yes I know everyone loses out in a war, both China/India will never go to war as they have too much to lose......
Yossarian
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"Never"? Extremely unlikely, yes. But never? As I said "major all out war can sometimes come about from the strangest of circumstances, with a fairly minor incidence at the heart of it acting as the trigger. WW1 is one such example".
cricketjoshila
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Its impossible to trust after Kargil.Pak Army doesnt have any respect for international agreements.
cricketjoshila
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Now you know what India is doing.Lol.
This guy seems to know which country will do what.All people come and tell him.
cricketjoshila
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When has Russia ever gone againist India?
What muslim unity?
Chinas trade with India is close to 80bn usf annually.More than entire CPEC.
Dreams of Pakistanis like you make me laugh.
Now you know what India is doing.Lol.
This guy seems to know which country will do what.All people come and tell him.
Sure I know what India is doing. That is what internet sites are for. I also know that India and it's people are crap scared of China
Russia will not fight your war against China as you seem to think. As Russia and USA are rivals you can't have them both on your side. Russia is not going to go against the dragon to please dirt poor India. I think you should have a look at your poverty ratings that will make you cry. Well obviously being ten times bigger in size your trade with China will be much bigger, it's only common sense. Raheel Sharif is working on Muslim unity so stay tuned.
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English August
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It's a truism to say that having a peaceful Pakistan as a neighbor would be a good thing for India. However, India has realized, quite belatedly, that aiming to have a peaceful relationship with Pakistan is quite close to impossible, so might as well accept the reality of ongoing conflict and move on. Every time there is a new govt. in New Dehli, there is a push for engaging with Pakistan (think Rajiv Gandhi, Gujral, Vajpayee, MMS, Modi over the past 30 years). Within 2-3 years, the new rulers realize that the reality in Pakistan is way more complex than what they had imagined. They realize that the people they're negotiating with have no real power. Real power is exercised by the deep state and those players aren't sitting in the meetings. The Pakistani deep state has no incentive to have peaceful relationship with India. In fact there is a huge incentive to not have peace.
This is further complicated by the increasing influence China wields over Pakistan. As if Ind-Pak wasn't complex enough, now there is a new player in the equation who will never allow any sort of agreement between the two warring parties.
Smiling Creed
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Honestly I think peace is on the way between India and Pakistan & China will play a very important part. The status quo will remain for quite some time, LOC will be treated as boundary. China will do everything in it's power to protect CPEC and secure it, be it from non-state actors in Pakistan or RAW agents. The border skirmishes on India's north east corner are part of parcel to ensure India accepts the brokered peace deal between both countries. Chinese premier will eventually win Nobel peace prize to get both the countries sign the deal.
Romali_rotti
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cricketjoshila
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Sure I know what India is doing. That is what internet sites are for. I also know that India and it's people are crap scared of China
Scared?Lol.We have the guts to stop the chinese and throw them out of Doklam.Thats why the daily rudaali of the CCP.
Romali_rotti
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This is flat out embarrassing for China now that Indian troops have stopped their army from entering Doklam. All Chinese media has been doing was bark like a dog, we will do this and that to India but all talk no action
..... Have the guts to show your worth China, do something if you dare, perfect time Malabar exercises has kicked off ALSO.. Thank god Modi is in charge of India rather than the SICKULAR CONGRESS...P.S. Meanwhile Rahul Gandhi meets the Chinese to beg them for help to overthrow Modi at the expense of selling India's interest. I hope every SICKULAR can now see those evil Congress has been doing to India since that cursed NEHRU, may god DAMN HIS SOUL, was given power....
Umm what ?
You wouldn't know what Raheel is doing in Saudi.
the Great Khan
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would love there to be peace but I cant see it happening anytime soon. However [MENTION=129922]Smiling Creed[/MENTION] does have a point and thats a good theory. The facts are this:
1) there can never ever be a full scale war between us anymore.
2) there cant be a limited war anymore as any form of border incursions using mechanised forces and air power will lead to a full scale war and nuclear exchange.
3) both country's have failed in their proxy wars. Pakistan with the sikh independance movement and india with the TTP and balochistan issue.
4) People on both sides of the border in general want some sort of relaxation of the tensions. This will come to a head in India where (im hoping) sane members of society will reject the uber nationalism of hinduvta parties and their fanatics.
5) We are sitting on an economic goldmine if, and only if, all parties agree to work together and not try to see one as superior to the other.
6) The China factor. China just made an investment of nearly a 100 billion dollars in Pakistan and is changing the game in the eurasian sphere. It will not tolerate its two younger "brothers" going at each other with pitch forks. A good big brother beating will probably ensue to both sides.
thats how I see it. But what of the spoilers? what could cause peace to be put back?
well peace has been put back due to the geo political games being played by the US and its allies in the region. They cannot afford to see a successful OBOR. what they want is a less effective OBOR that gives them some benefits but ultimatley doesnt affect their power and economic hold on key trade routes.
The other problem is the political situation in India and Pakistan. With increasingly nationalistic and right wing forces taking over in certain parts of India, Pakistan is once again feeling insecure. What india has to realise is that Pakistan always makes moves based on its insecurity. Even Kargil stemmed from this. As the more powerful neighbour India should make the first moves and alleviate some of this insecurity.
Finally what about the US factor? they are a major spoiler here and can scupper any peace deals using various proxies, agents and actors..
1) there can never ever be a full scale war between us anymore.
2) there cant be a limited war anymore as any form of border incursions using mechanised forces and air power will lead to a full scale war and nuclear exchange.
3) both country's have failed in their proxy wars. Pakistan with the sikh independance movement and india with the TTP and balochistan issue.
4) People on both sides of the border in general want some sort of relaxation of the tensions. This will come to a head in India where (im hoping) sane members of society will reject the uber nationalism of hinduvta parties and their fanatics.
5) We are sitting on an economic goldmine if, and only if, all parties agree to work together and not try to see one as superior to the other.
6) The China factor. China just made an investment of nearly a 100 billion dollars in Pakistan and is changing the game in the eurasian sphere. It will not tolerate its two younger "brothers" going at each other with pitch forks. A good big brother beating will probably ensue to both sides.
thats how I see it. But what of the spoilers? what could cause peace to be put back?
well peace has been put back due to the geo political games being played by the US and its allies in the region. They cannot afford to see a successful OBOR. what they want is a less effective OBOR that gives them some benefits but ultimatley doesnt affect their power and economic hold on key trade routes.
The other problem is the political situation in India and Pakistan. With increasingly nationalistic and right wing forces taking over in certain parts of India, Pakistan is once again feeling insecure. What india has to realise is that Pakistan always makes moves based on its insecurity. Even Kargil stemmed from this. As the more powerful neighbour India should make the first moves and alleviate some of this insecurity.
Finally what about the US factor? they are a major spoiler here and can scupper any peace deals using various proxies, agents and actors..
OneTip-OneHand
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Some posts in this thread are hilarious (hopeless). Prophecy (Looks like they are hoping for it) of war between India-China-Pakistan which is highly unlikely, dare i say nearly impossible unless one of the parties go nuts.
As many posters are claiming Pakistan has always extended an arm of friendship. By doing what? Kargil, Mumbai terror attack? Wasn't it Vajpayee inititiating the talks again or even Modi who is considered as hardliner started soft by inviting Nawaz Sharif to his swearing in ceremony or going to Pakistani to wish him on his birthday.
Both countries, its people, its army has their own narrative when it comes to peace. Best possible solution i can see is India keeps its part of Kashmir, Pakistan keeps the one they are occupying currently, Forget about Aksai-chin, make the LOC an International border, stop proxy wars in each other's lands. Thats the only feasible solution i can see for peace.
As many posters are claiming Pakistan has always extended an arm of friendship. By doing what? Kargil, Mumbai terror attack? Wasn't it Vajpayee inititiating the talks again or even Modi who is considered as hardliner started soft by inviting Nawaz Sharif to his swearing in ceremony or going to Pakistani to wish him on his birthday.
Both countries, its people, its army has their own narrative when it comes to peace. Best possible solution i can see is India keeps its part of Kashmir, Pakistan keeps the one they are occupying currently, Forget about Aksai-chin, make the LOC an International border, stop proxy wars in each other's lands. Thats the only feasible solution i can see for peace.
Romali_rotti
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Pretty much summed up your whole post..
English August
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So many inaccuracies and myths in one post. Just a few examples:
- No idea where you're getting this "feeling" that people on both sides want peace. I don't know about Pakistan, but I can tell you that the Indians have realized that there can't be peace with Pakistan given how entrenched the deep state is over there
- What goldmine are you talking about? Indian pursuit of "goldmine" has zero relationship with this so-called Pakistani goldmine. India is a stable economy, structurally insulated from ups-and-downs in the global markets (since it doesn't depend on exports, unlike China) and is growing fast. Pakistan is a well-known basket case.
- What $100B investment from China? Can you provide a breakdown of *real* investments that have already been made (not some random newspaper report "promising" investments in year 2039)
- Pak may be a little brother to China (and good luck to you if that's what you want to be). India and China are not brothers or cousins of any kind
- Why should India worry about Pak's insecurities when Pakistan continues to pursue its well publicized policy of "death by thousand cuts"? If Pak is so thrilled playing little brother to China, similarly why can't it accept that it also happens to be eight times smaller than India and therefore should learn to live with its "smallness" instead of pursuing an impossible-to-achieve "equivalence"? Pakistan's biggest problem is that it sees itself as India's equal on world stage. It then gets slapped around by everyone and their uncle. So it goes running back to China. China promises Pakistan a friendship that's "sweeter than honey and taller than Everest". But it doesn't even provide visa and medical facilities to Pakistani cancer patients, so they are forced to come their enemy India. Could this possibly get any more screwed up?
- And finally why should US scupper any deal between India and Pak? It makes no sense. Remember it was Bill Clinton who brokered peace during Pak's humiliation in Kargil when Sharif went running to Washington DC (Clinton didn't even receive him at the front door as per usual protocol, Sharif had to enter the White House from the back door during the July 4 weekend)
Lonewarrior
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The pakistani "Govt" ha said it already, No talks With Modi govt ....
Bhaijaan
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Gem of a thread and a reminder of the time when we had peace ambassadors like MenInG in charge of things.
I remain hopeful of a peace treaty during my lifetime.
I remain hopeful of a peace treaty during my lifetime.
rpant_gabba
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What a great, accurate post which demonstrates wishful thinking
Hitman
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We tried the peace route in 99' under Vajpayee. Got rewarded with the Kargil War, and Parliament attack. We didn't learn our lesson and again tried the peace route. Got rewarded with Mumbai attacks.
We were supposed to send our cricket team to Pakistan back in early 2009. Thankfully sanity prevailed and we pulled out, with Sri Lanka taking our place. We saw what happened to them, which would have instead happened to us if we went.
God bless my people who still want the peace route!
@cricketjoshila
We were supposed to send our cricket team to Pakistan back in early 2009. Thankfully sanity prevailed and we pulled out, with Sri Lanka taking our place. We saw what happened to them, which would have instead happened to us if we went.
God bless my people who still want the peace route!
@cricketjoshila
Not even reading the discussion above since I am too scared to fall in the negativity trap, but there's nothing I would wish for more than a friendly Pakistan and Bharat. Our religions and lifestyle are not compatible, there's a strong disagreement there, but I really wish we can get over this @MenInG bhai.
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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That post was from 2017. @TheGreatKhan doesn't realize that in 2025, peace is no longer an option because it would dismantle the very agenda that keeps the BJP in power. If they can't tolerate peace between Hindus and Muslims within India, what makes you think they will pursue peace with Pakistan?
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This is a very short term view. If there is peace what will we discuss all day? How will we fill our time?
This is not just a local pass time but keeps the global economy flowing. We have brothers from both sides sitting in the UK, USA, Australia and Canada who are deeply invested in this battle.
Our views and feelings must be respected by the respective governments before any peace deal is reached.
This is not just a local pass time but keeps the global economy flowing. We have brothers from both sides sitting in the UK, USA, Australia and Canada who are deeply invested in this battle.
Our views and feelings must be respected by the respective governments before any peace deal is reached.
Bhaijaan
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I urge all my fellow posters to look at this from afresh perspective nd not let the bad experiences of the past influence our decisions in the present or future. A man who keeps deep grudges and contempt in his heart can never truly progress and find peace of mind. For our nations to move forward it will take remarkable statesmanship and big heartedness. For all the civilians, your responsibility is to ensure a positive and friendly environment is created to facilitate peace talks.
If you think otherwise you are free to attack me. I will not retaliate with hatred. I promise you.
If you think otherwise you are free to attack me. I will not retaliate with hatred. I promise you.
Bhaijaan
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Brother we must always try.
A relationship cannot progress if someone cannot be a visionary and look at long term benefits.
I would gladly lose 100 debates and keep the friendship with my loved ones.
Similarly, wrt Pakistan, our mentality must be that we must give them all the love and benefits possible to facilitate peace talks without keeping grudges of the past.
Bhaijaan
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Also, enough with empty words, about time Bharat actually proposed a minimum 100 billion USD peace package to Pakistan. Whatever the amount be, more or less is for the experts to check but we have to give a lucrative peace deal to Pakistan as our brothers to win back their love and friendship. I feel its very cheap of us to ask for peace and friendship without offering a package to them. This is the least we can do for them getting the rough end of the deal in 1947. Pakistan got a lot of land but Bharat got most of the business hubs and rich princely states. We have to make up to Pakistanis for that. From their side, whatever they can do its for them to decide, frankly their friendship is more than enough for us. Let Kashmir have free movement from both sides under our patrolling with Kahmiris getting full rights to elect their government. Let Kashmiri hindus be rehabilitated, i dont see any opposition from Pakistan or muslims to that. Let us do the patroling for a decade and committ to gradually demilitarize. We will contribute to bring peace in Balochistan where we can do similar Kashmir like solution. Autonomy under Pak army patroling for minimum a decade. Afghan border to be jointly settled by us 3.
rpant_gabba
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He has been pushing how India should concede to Pak wishes Becos Pak might get stronger since 2004That post was from 2017. @TheGreatKhan doesn't realize that in 2025, peace is no longer an option because it would dismantle the very agenda that keeps the BJP in power. If they can't tolerate peace between Hindus and Muslims within India, what makes you think they will pursue peace with Pakistan?
Bhaijaan
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@DeadlyVenom @Cpt. Rishwat @Major @Hikaru @RexRex @deltexas @Slim
What are your thoughts on this.
Joint investment plan.
Joint demilitarization and defense budget cap pledge on a gradual basis at Bharat-Pak border.
Joint economic plan to achieve 20 trillion dollar joint economy
Bhaijaan
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Lahore-Amritsar joint economic cooperation treaty to transform Punjab region.
Karachi-Gujarat-Mumbai joint economic cooperation treaty to transform development major economic hubs and sea ports
Kashmir joint development plan to transform it to the most lucrative travel destination of the world within a decade targeting 50 million tourists. 10 billion dollars pledged to development of ropeways, airports and road infrastructure in Kashmir
Karachi-Gujarat-Mumbai joint economic cooperation treaty to transform development major economic hubs and sea ports
Kashmir joint development plan to transform it to the most lucrative travel destination of the world within a decade targeting 50 million tourists. 10 billion dollars pledged to development of ropeways, airports and road infrastructure in Kashmir
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I don't mind it. I want both countries to publicly pledge to stop investment in Nuclear weapons and to symbocally destroy some of their stockpiles.
Ultimately I don't care too much about India but I would like a direct pathway from Dhaka to Lahore with key stops at historical Mughal sites.
Bhaijaan
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I fully support this. Also I think because Pakistan has excellent relationship with China, we can use your help to also have a similar deal with China at the eastern front.
This is not new.
Other countries have also done it or considering it.
Donald Trumo has also made similar calls to China, Russia to pledge to gradually decrease defense budget.
Bhaijaan
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Brother I thought you would wanna make a stop at Ludhiana for me?
You keep breaking my heart. Been a rough week.
Bhaijaan
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I don’t see a nuclear weapon being used by any responsible nation.
Only threat is rogue elements like Taliban, Hamas etc.
Israel is the only actual nation that is crazy and reckless enough to do it.
I don’t even see North Koreans doing it. They just pretend crazy.
Only threat is rogue elements like Taliban, Hamas etc.
Israel is the only actual nation that is crazy and reckless enough to do it.
I don’t even see North Koreans doing it. They just pretend crazy.
Beautiful to read your thoughts @DeadlyVenom @Bhaijaan, didn't expect any less. You two were always my handpicked "glimmer of hope" posters in the forum. <3
Bhaijaan
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Syed Muzammil Bhais thought provoking take on it just a day ago :-
Bhaijaan
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Thanks Hikaru bhai.
What are we if love and brotherhood is not part of our life. We would be just dead people wired to the matrix.
For as long as this human heart is beating, it must long for love and peace.
I also strongly appreciate your positive contributions. Keep it up.
mominsaigol
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China doesn't give a crap about Pakistan. Their friends in the same way Australia and Iceland are friends.
It would only make sense if China was friends with Pakistan in the same way Aus and NZ are friends or USA and Canada use to be friends before Trump went insane with tariffs and forceful invasion threats.
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