Should Pakistan try to dominate the opposition or play at the level of the opposition?

[Major]

Whenever Pakistan plays a limited overs cricket against any opposition, be it Ireland or Netherlands, Pakistan doesnt look to take risks and fully dominate the match.

If the opposition is England, they will play at Englands level by batting at fast pace.

If the opposition is a minnow, they will look to score 300 runs minimum to make sure the game is safe to win.
[MENTION=141811]shariqnoor[/MENTION] pointed this out today that "Pakistan has a habit of playing at the level of the opposition. If they play Argentina, these Pakistani players will play at their level and make a match of it."

Now when you try to dominate others that means you are taking more risk and more risk means losing wickets and even losing the match.

When you play safe and set in mind that you want 300 against a weak opposition, the goal is reached safely, but you dont get the chance to experiment or further improve yourself.

Whats your take on this when playing against a minnow?


My view is that we arn't at the level of England, plus, a player who doesnt perform gets thrown out. England can try a Rory Burns type player for 10 plus matches but Pakistan's case is different and a loss to a minnow or a player not performing faces the axe.

 

[Ilan Bluestone]

You should play your youngsters in these types of series.

Our B side should still win this series.

Domination is irrelevant if you’re always going to play at the level of your competition.

The youngsters will probably have something to prove and play with a sense of urgency. The senior squad were simply not putting their best foot forward. That innings by Imam was one of the laziest I’ve ever see.

There is nothing for the senior squad to gain in these types of series. You may unearth talent though if you give players who have had little international experience and get some exposure to the international setting in this way.

Bringing them into a big series against say an England is a lot more pressure with simply better opposition which will cause confidence issues if they start poorly.

Some good scores like Indian is doing against WI for the youngsters gives them confidence, learning, and gives you an idea of what you have at the international stage instead of “is Shakeel good enough?”, “is Dhawani an international bowler”.

Today’s match taught us nothing we don’t already know. A win was to be expected even if it was playing to the level of their competition.

The 100 matches comment is a weak one. Does Babar Adam really need to play NZ? Do we think this series will teach him anything?

If you’re afraid of losing with a B squad to ND then it shows where the priorities are. Winning and losing against them isn’t the priority. Pakistan will qualify for the World Cup. We know that. Might as well try to find if there is a hidden gem. It’s not as though we are the best squad in the world and couldn’t use additional help. Pakistan clearly has holes in its roster - may as well see if maybe you can find even one who is ready to break through.

This is what good teams do. They give their players a chance against weaker teams. Often the issue for talented players isn’t whether they can score runs but what’s between the ears. We’ve seen it so many times in the past. Player comes in, looks good, then has a bad few matches, the confidence looks shot, and they become an anecdote in Pakistan history.

A little bravery in the short term willing to put a loss on the line against Netherlands will potentially unearth talent in the long term and not ruin prospects who are thrown in the deep end against Australia.

It’s this kind of thinking that will keep us where we are.

India did a fabulous job of blending young and old against West Indies and they have a better idea who they should give more attention to and who might not be ready / will be a flop.

Who was excited about today’s match? Pakistan was the 5th best team in the last World Cup with many of these same players, tied with the fourth team, and beat both the finalists but they needed to really put a similar squad against Netherlands?

Poor planning, poor execution. Simply a step behind the big teams and clearly shows a lack of confidence in their system.

 

[Rohan]

Try youngsters, bench strength against these sort of teams. Something is not right with mentality, attitude, confidence in their system.

 

[Nasty Naz]

Try youngsters, bench strength against these sort of teams. Something is not right with mentality, attitude, confidence in their system.

Two players made their debuts today. Khushdil & Rauf haven't even played 20 ODI's yet and Nawaz just played his 20 ODI today. They're also carrying players like Haris and Dahani who have hardly even played List A domestically too.

This is a relatively inexperienced side. I am not sure what people want them to play? An U-19 side?

 

[Major]

Except for Babar And Fakhar, the rest of the team is pretty inexperience

 

[Rohan]

Two players made their debuts today. Khushdil & Rauf haven't even played 20 ODI's yet and Nawaz just played his 20 ODI today. They're also carrying players like Haris and Dahani who have hardly even played List A domestically too.

This is a relatively inexperienced side. I am not sure what people want them to play? An U-19 side?

I understand your point. But winning should not be criteria here ( you are going to win regardless), try out who did not get chances. Do you think Babar, Rizwan, Shadab should have played?they are pretty established players anyways.

 

[topspin]

Only Pakistan plays their first team against the likes of Netherlands. The concept of experimenting and testing out your bench strength is simply non-existent in Pakistan cricket. We're 30 years behind the likes of England etc. One of the reasons for this is because not a single Pakistani ex-player understands and reads the game properly.

 

[topspin]

Really poor stuff to see our first team play like a bunch of timid kittens against a minnow.

 

[shamaan]

I understand your point. But winning should not be criteria here ( you are going to win regardless), try out who did not get chances. Do you think Babar, Rizwan, Shadab should have played?they are pretty established players anyways.

Rizwan is stil finding his feet in odis he hasn't performed to the standard expected hence why they should continue playing him to find some form.

 

[sweep_shot]

Dominate obviously.

I thought Pakistan were way too cautious today.

 

[Cric1234]

Pakistan are not good enough to dominate any team regularly being a team who’s true ranking is just below the top 5 teams you can’t expect them to beat the opposition even if they are minnows by 200 300 Run margin.

The selection of Imam as an opener is another reason why as Babar is a decent ODI bat but not one who plays over 100 strike rate the team would need batsmen who can play over 100 strike rate to be more dominant.

That means there isn’t enough in the top order to be dominant as the middle order currently isn’t great you would need batsmen like Umar Akmal Haider with
Improvement to bat with Fakhar and Babar then there’s a chance of dominating teams who are minnows.

The series won recently are against B teams and Windies who
are close to minnows it’s not a true reflection of Pakistan’s ability in ODIs by playing the top 5 teams who would be at full strength would be a better indicator of where we stand as a team the likelihood is one who’s below the top 5 teams and thus not capable enough to dominate even minnows.

 

[Nasty Naz]

I understand your point. But winning should not be criteria here ( you are going to win regardless), try out who did not get chances. Do you think Babar, Rizwan, Shadab should have played?they are pretty established players anyways.

Rizwan hasn't established himself in the ODI side but I get your point and it is fair. However, Pakistan haven't played much ODI's in 3 years and don't even know what their roster/middle order they will be going with for a WC that is only a year away. When the side is more established like India/England/Australia/NZ, it is easy to experiment and with the amount of Tests India/England/Australia play compared to our players, it's necessary for their players to rest anyways. Their fans are also less likely to lose their minds if the team happens to lose a game too but there is always plenty of negativity and criticism in Pakistan.

I certainly wouldn't have minded if they tested bench strength but there's a very strong reason why they aren't and it's justifiable IMO.

 

[shariqnoor]

The problem with Pakistan is always "fear of failure". Unless something is mathematically impossible, Pakistan cricket team will always have that doubt in the back of the mind that what if they lose, or what if they don't qualify for the next stage, no matter the improbability of it.

I can rest assure that ICC will never let Pakistan not qualify for the World Cup. Their whole World Cup is built on the India-Pakistan game. The pool of international teams that play cricket to a good standard is so limited that the idea to have a World Cup qualification for the Test nations is beyond reason to me. If for any reason Pakistan fails to qualify for the World Cup, rest assured ICC will scrap this nonsense from next time onwards. So not inducting youngsters in the team for this Netherlands series based on the reason that Pakistan needs to qualify for the World Cup is a lame excuse in my opinion.

With regards to domination of a match and not inducting youngsters in lesser rated series, there are several factors at play for Pakistanis:

1) Backlash in the media: The team is so scared of a backlash that it is now literally ingrained into them to play for safety and not risk losing a match. It doesn't matter if it's against Australia or against Papua New Guinea. If Pakistan team finds themselves in a position where the match can go either way, trust them to take the safety first option of not losing. Because they are afraid of the intense backlash they will receive in the media. England lose to Scotland and nobody bats an eyelid in England. If Pakistan loses 1 match to Netherlands, imagine the backlash on these players.

2) Fear of getting dropped: In Pakistan, you can be dropped from the team altogether based on one failure in a series (in some cases even one game). This puts massive pressure on anyone coming in to perform and since Pakistani players are generally very weak mentally, most of them are not able to take that pressure. This fear of getting dropped hangs over their head like a Damocles sword. So in that situation, you would hardly find anyone playing with no fear of losing his wicket. For them, runs is more important than the SR you accumulate it.

3) Less number of matches: Take the example of ODIs. Pakistan are playing 47 ODIs only in the next 4 years. That is a ridiculously low number of ODIs. Comes to about 12 ODIs on average per year. Those 12 ODIs are going to be spread over 12 months meaning basically 4 series of 3 matches each with a gap of 2-3 months in between. So if a new player comes into the side, he practically has only 3 ODIs (given that he is played in all 3 ODIs) to make an impression so that he is retained for the next series that will happen 3 months later. When you know this is the situation, every batsmen is going to look to score 50 even if it means it comes at a 80 SR. The system is set up in such a way that it discourages power batting.

4) Lack of talent/technique: Fans need to admit that Pakistan talent in cricket is at an all time low. There are no players in the domestic who can do what England/India players can do. Even if there is no backlash of losing a match, or the fear of getting dropped, Pakistan batsmen just don't have the technique to play at a tempo that is required for modern cricket now.

These are some of the factors that have hindered Pakistan cricket from moving forward and it will take some drastic measures to correct it. Till then we will continue seeing Pakistan players playing to the level of the opposition.

 

[Major]

The problem with Pakistan is always "fear of failure". Unless something is mathematically impossible, Pakistan cricket team will always have that doubt in the back of the mind that what if they lose, or what if they don't qualify for the next stage, no matter the improbability of it.

I can rest assure that ICC will never let Pakistan not qualify for the World Cup. Their whole World Cup is built on the India-Pakistan game. The pool of international teams that play cricket to a good standard is so limited that the idea to have a World Cup qualification for the Test nations is beyond reason to me. If for any reason Pakistan fails to qualify for the World Cup, rest assured ICC will scrap this nonsense from next time onwards. So not inducting youngsters in the team for this Netherlands series based on the reason that Pakistan needs to qualify for the World Cup is a lame excuse in my opinion.

With regards to domination of a match and not inducting youngsters in lesser rated series, there are several factors at play for Pakistanis:

1) Backlash in the media: The team is so scared of a backlash that it is now literally ingrained into them to play for safety and not risk losing a match. It doesn't matter if it's against Australia or against Papua New Guinea. If Pakistan team finds themselves in a position where the match can go either way, trust them to take the safety first option of not losing. Because they are afraid of the intense backlash they will receive in the media. England lose to Scotland and nobody bats an eyelid in England. If Pakistan loses 1 match to Netherlands, imagine the backlash on these players.

2) Fear of getting dropped: In Pakistan, you can be dropped from the team altogether based on one failure in a series (in some cases even one game). This puts massive pressure on anyone coming in to perform and since Pakistani players are generally very weak mentally, most of them are not able to take that pressure. This fear of getting dropped hangs over their head like a Damocles sword. So in that situation, you would hardly find anyone playing with no fear of losing his wicket. For them, runs is more important than the SR you accumulate it.

3) Less number of matches: Take the example of ODIs. Pakistan are playing 47 ODIs only in the next 4 years. That is a ridiculously low number of ODIs. Comes to about 12 ODIs on average per year. Those 12 ODIs are going to be spread over 12 months meaning basically 4 series of 3 matches each with a gap of 2-3 months in between. So if a new player comes into the side, he practically has only 3 ODIs (given that he is played in all 3 ODIs) to make an impression so that he is retained for the next series that will happen 3 months later. When you know this is the situation, every batsmen is going to look to score 50 even if it means it comes at a 80 SR. The system is set up in such a way that it discourages power batting.

4) Lack of talent/technique: Fans need to admit that Pakistan talent in cricket is at an all time low. There are no players in the domestic who can do what England/India players can do. Even if there is no backlash of losing a match, or the fear of getting dropped, Pakistan batsmen just don't have the technique to play at a tempo that is required for modern cricket now.

These are some of the factors that have hindered Pakistan cricket from moving forward and it will take some drastic measures to correct it. Till then we will continue seeing Pakistan players playing to the level of the opposition.

Potw, you nailed it

 

[Markhor]

The problem with Pakistan is always "fear of failure". Unless something is mathematically impossible, Pakistan cricket team will always have that doubt in the back of the mind that what if they lose, or what if they don't qualify for the next stage, no matter the improbability of it.

I can rest assure that ICC will never let Pakistan not qualify for the World Cup. Their whole World Cup is built on the India-Pakistan game. The pool of international teams that play cricket to a good standard is so limited that the idea to have a World Cup qualification for the Test nations is beyond reason to me. If for any reason Pakistan fails to qualify for the World Cup, rest assured ICC will scrap this nonsense from next time onwards. So not inducting youngsters in the team for this Netherlands series based on the reason that Pakistan needs to qualify for the World Cup is a lame excuse in my opinion.

With regards to domination of a match and not inducting youngsters in lesser rated series, there are several factors at play for Pakistanis:

1) Backlash in the media: The team is so scared of a backlash that it is now literally ingrained into them to play for safety and not risk losing a match. It doesn't matter if it's against Australia or against Papua New Guinea. If Pakistan team finds themselves in a position where the match can go either way, trust them to take the safety first option of not losing. Because they are afraid of the intense backlash they will receive in the media. England lose to Scotland and nobody bats an eyelid in England. If Pakistan loses 1 match to Netherlands, imagine the backlash on these players.

2) Fear of getting dropped: In Pakistan, you can be dropped from the team altogether based on one failure in a series (in some cases even one game). This puts massive pressure on anyone coming in to perform and since Pakistani players are generally very weak mentally, most of them are not able to take that pressure. This fear of getting dropped hangs over their head like a Damocles sword. So in that situation, you would hardly find anyone playing with no fear of losing his wicket. For them, runs is more important than the SR you accumulate it.

3) Less number of matches: Take the example of ODIs. Pakistan are playing 47 ODIs only in the next 4 years. That is a ridiculously low number of ODIs. Comes to about 12 ODIs on average per year. Those 12 ODIs are going to be spread over 12 months meaning basically 4 series of 3 matches each with a gap of 2-3 months in between. So if a new player comes into the side, he practically has only 3 ODIs (given that he is played in all 3 ODIs) to make an impression so that he is retained for the next series that will happen 3 months later. When you know this is the situation, every batsmen is going to look to score 50 even if it means it comes at a 80 SR. The system is set up in such a way that it discourages power batting.

4) Lack of talent/technique: Fans need to admit that Pakistan talent in cricket is at an all time low. There are no players in the domestic who can do what England/India players can do. Even if there is no backlash of losing a match, or the fear of getting dropped, Pakistan batsmen just don't have the technique to play at a tempo that is required for modern cricket now.

These are some of the factors that have hindered Pakistan cricket from moving forward and it will take some drastic measures to correct it. Till then we will continue seeing Pakistan players playing to the level of the opposition.

POTW, not need to add to this.