Should Shaheen Shah Afridi be given a run in Tests for the South Africa tour?

[Xoib]

I dont care he is raw and not ready just throw him in the deep end now. We have tour to South Africa in 12 months and another one to Australia in 22 months we need tall quick pacers who can extract bounce from the track I am sick and tired of Midget Amir trundling in bowling mid 130 short of length rubbish. We need a fresh approach with our pace attack heck get Salman Irshad in if he looks good too at PSL.

 

[Xoib]

At worst he will be a failure big deal we already know what we will get from Amir, Abbas and co.

 

[troodon]

I thought Amir is 6 footer. He is definitely not a midget. Hasan Ali is pretty short.

There weee threads abound not all long ago about how Pakistan has embarrassment of riches when it comes to picking fast bowlers. All of that euphoria seems to have vanished in a matter of 10days in Kiwiland.

 

[zn426]

I thought Amir is 6 footer. He is definitely not a midget. Hasan Ali is pretty short.

There weee threads abound not all long ago about how Pakistan has embarrassment of riches when it comes to picking fast bowlers. All of that euphoria seems to have vanished in a matter of 10days in Kiwiland.

I will remind you here that Junaid Khan and Usman Shinwari are both out injured. That makes an impact.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mushtaq Ahmed "There are some bowlers who can be fast-tracked to international cricket - Shaheen Shah Afridi is one of them" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/953639481155997696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 17, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Hasan123]

The revolutionary doesn't have the guts.

 

[MMHS]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mushtaq Ahmed "There are some bowlers who can be fast-tracked to international cricket - Shaheen Shah Afridi is one of them" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/953639481155997696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 17, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

End of the kid - this means he is not likely before 2025.

 

[Bewal Express]

I tell one thing if the present PK bowling goes to SA they will get torn apart. Too many 82mph bowlers. The batsman will already be having nightmares.

 

[indipper]

I would worry about batsmen but bowlers? Most of them were injured and not even playing.


And I cant understand the fuss behind Shaheen Afridi. Everyone thinks that he is next Wasim Akram yet he appeared just average 6/10 sort of bowler to me.

I tell one thing if the present PK bowling goes to SA they will get torn apart. Too many 82mph bowlers. The batsman will already be having nightmares.

Asif was way lesser than 82 yet highly successful. Its about using your brain.

 

[Bewal Express]

I would worry about batsmen but bowlers? Most of them were injured and not even playing.


And I cant understand the fuss behind Shaheen Afridi. Everyone thinks that he is next Wasim Akram yet he appeared just average 6/10 sort of bowler to me.



Asif was way lesser than 82 yet highly successful. Its about using your brain.

I think people confuse the exceptions like Asif with general mediocrity of guys that bowl at 82mph. For everyone that is good at that pace there are dozens of others that are totally harmless.

 

[Pete Rose]

End of the kid - this means he is not likely before 2025.

Mushtaq is not the brightest. this endorsement will be the kiss of death.

 

[Savak]

Pakistan needs to go back to the 80's and 90's formula of fast tracking pacers in the team. Do not let them rot and wilt in domestic cricket.

 

[indipper]

I think people confuse the exceptions like Asif with general mediocrity of guys that bowl at 82mph. For everyone that is good at that pace there are dozens of others that are totally harmless.

No. Its about taking speed as a single parameter out of many. We got loose canons like Sami or Wahab. Its about using brain. You got pace? Its a bonus but only if you got brains and skills to bowl with it.

 

[coy0607]

At worst he will be a failure big deal we already know what we will get from Amir, Abbas and co.

Actually - at worst he will get an epic phanti, he may possibly have some of the worst figures in history against Amla, ABD, de Kock, du Plessis and then Warner, Smith...

It could destroy a promising career

We have other bowlers who have been performing domestically and have earned a debut ahead of Shaheen

 

[Syed1]

Perhaps you lot aren't familiar with how PCB works... If untrained raw SSA is thrown in the deep end and he has a torrid time he would probably be discarded for half a decade.

 

[MMHS]

Mushtaq is not the brightest. this endorsement will be the kiss of death.

Same school Bhai - normally talks sweet & don’t talk what’s in mind. This “lots of talent” is a bluff talk - those who endorses youngsters, they actually pick the player and tell that the kid is picked for his talent & potential.

 

[Abdullah719]

The full article with Mushtaq's comments on Shaheen:

ICC U-19 World Cup 2018: The other Afridi from Pakistan

Last week Mushtaq Ahmed, former Pakistan legspinner, got a text message from New Zealand. It was from Shaheen Afridi, the teenaged pacer he had spotted and promoted in an U-16 camp a couple of years ago. “Mushy bhai, I am not getting wickets, what to do? What am I doing wrong?” Pakistan U-19 had played a series of warm-ups with Australia and the boy was fretting. A week later, in Pakistan’s second game, Afridi ran through Ireland with a six-for to emerge as potentially the most potent bowler to watch out for in this tournament.

Mushtaq says he brought up the reference of Wasim Akram to reassure Afridi. “I told him I have played several matches with Akram, and even he went wicketless in some games despite bowling well. What matters is whether you have the rhythm, and feeling good about how you are bowling. Rest will happen. Don’t worry.” A week later, Afridi has now started to make his presence felt in the cricketing world.

Not that Mushtaq is surprised. Even when Afridi came in for the at U-16 camp in Pakistan, Mushtaq was stunned by what he saw. “It was amazing. There are many young pacers in Pakistan and world wide who will catch your eye with their pace or say with their stock ball – inswinger or outswinger. Afridi had all that, but what stood out was the level of his cricket awareness, and skill set.

“He could bowl round the stumps even back then and, most importantly, what amazed me was that he already had the knowledge of using the angles at crease. I can tell you after playing so many years for Pakistan and coaching international teams, it’s not common for young pacers to have that kind of awareness.”

Over a six-week camp, Mushtaq recalls spending a lot of time with Afridi, and gaining respect for the work ethic. “I would tell him to bowl with the old ball around the stumps, and next morning he would be there spending hours working on it. He has a wonderful repeatable action – which is very key to have consistent success at higher level.”

In September last year, on his first-class debut in Quaid-e-Azam tournament, Afridi took 8 for 39, best ever by a Pakistani on debut. The Youtube video is worth a watch: the ball cuts late to peg back off stump, swings in full from round the stumps, kicks up from short of length, curves away late as the youngster created quite a delightful ruckus.

Afridi hails from Landi Kotal — the western most part of Khyber — in many ways the door to Afghanistan. A tough hill terrain, which is often embroiled in battles and war, and especially came to the fore after the September 11 attacks in New York. There are many legends around Landi Kotal, known for its delicacy ‘Patta Tikka’ — lamb liver rolled into layer of fat taken from the stomach. But the sweetest story revolves around a chained tree. The story goes that a drunken English officer had his staff arrest the tree because he thought it was chasing him. It’s been a hundred years but the tree remains chained. Some of the citizens though have escaped. Some, like, Afridi moved to Peshawar after insurgency post 9/11 to work on their cricket. It was then that he met up with his coach Rashid Khan, and eventually ran into Mushtaq.

Mushtaq recalls the first match he set up for the U-16 players in the camp, when he watched a curious thing unfold as Afridi came to bowl. “He came around the stumps and I noticed he didn’t have a third man in. After the innings, I asked him the reason. ‘What’s the need for third man sir? I am thinking of two ways to get the batsman out from around the stumps: Lbw, and a catch behind with the straighter one. I want the batsman to open the bat-face and try run down to third man and I will get him then.’”

In Mushtaq’s mind, it was a moment that has stayed. “Bhai, yeh jo basic cheez lag raha hai, utna basic nahi hai. I have seen many international bowlers also clueless about such field placements or thinking. That told me that this boy mey dum hai. And that all I or Pakistan cricket need to do is to show faith in him – talk strategy to him perhaps, pass experiences from our careers, but best not to interfere too much. There are some bowlers who can be fast tracked. He is one of them.”

The hilly terrain of Landi Kotal, Mushtaq feels, has already played its part in Afridi’s development. “Pahadi ladka hai, he is very fit, and with all the tough things that happen in that region, he is already mentally fit I think. His brother Riaz who played a Test for Pakistan in 2004 has already put the sports dream in him.”

Afridi is someone who doesn’t offer excuses, Mushtaq says. “Just like most Pathan people I have to say. They are frank: I never found him saying pitch wasn’t good, he would just say, ‘I didn’t bowl well today’. A humble boy, he respects the seniors a lot, and above all, as I keep saying, his temperament is really solid. And with his skills and cricket awareness, he will surely play for Pakistan one day. Shayad, bahut jaldi hi.”

http://indianexpress.com/article/sp...-2018-the-other-afridi-from-pakistan-5027676/

 

[Rayyman]

It will be weird seeing another Afridi in the team. Especially S Afridi.

I hope when he plays next his name is shown as Shaheen Shah or S. Shah.

 

[kingusama92]

Putting in a teenage prospect is highly risky with Pakistan's current setup.

One failed series and that prospect is finished.

It's clear most fans/media/selectors have no idea about the various stages of development and will immediately look to remove Shaheen.

 

[Madplayer]

Perhaps you lot aren't familiar with how PCB works... If untrained raw SSA is thrown in the deep end and he has a torrid time he would probably be discarded for half a decade.

100% True.

People are forgetting what happened to the 19 year old Usman Khan Shinwari when he had a bad debut against srilanka.

He bowled 4 overs and was expensive. Those 4 overs were enough for selectors to discard him for half a decade.

SSA, if selected, needs to be persisted with even if he has bad games. He needs to be in and around the team all the time if he is picked now.

 

[Xoib]

Putting in a teenage prospect is highly risky with Pakistan's current setup.

One failed series and that prospect is finished.

It's clear most fans/media/selectors have no idea about the various stages of development and will immediately look to remove Shaheen.

Its a gamble but in order to compete in Aus/SA we nned tall hit the deck bowlers Shaheen fits the mold not sure there are many in Pakistan who does better to debut in conditions that suit him rather wait till they play in UAE.

 

[Shafi]

Since Amir is not a test material so as Babar we need to find replacement for them

 

[kingusama92]

Its a gamble but in order to compete in Aus/SA we nned tall hit the deck bowlers Shaheen fits the mold not sure there are many in Pakistan who does better to debut in conditions that suit him rather wait till they play in UAE.

That's fine but it shouldn't be this time around.

Shaheen is 17.

You can bring him to SA/AUS on the next tour when he's in his early 20s and properly developed. The kid has 2 FC games under his belt. It's not enough and he will get smashed around against world-class players of pace.

 

[Bewal Express]

No. Its about taking speed as a single parameter out of many. We got loose canons like Sami or Wahab. Its about using brain. You got pace? Its a bonus but only if you got brains and skills to bowl with it.

Totally agree a bad fast bowler is just as bad and in some case even worse

 

[shah_1]

That's fine but it shouldn't be this time around.

Shaheen is 17.

You can bring him to SA/AUS on the next tour when he's in his early 20s and properly developed. The kid has 2 FC games under his belt. It's not enough and he will get smashed around against world-class players of pace.

Well he will have a whole QEA trophy season before SA tour, should be selected if he does preform. Many bowlers have rotten in domestic cricket, no point waiting that long.

 

[static]

Might as well bring him in. He'll probably be better than all the other bowlers we have.

 

[babajee]

Should Shaheen Shah Afridi be given a run in Tests?

In my opinion Pakistan should look to fast track Shaheen into the test team immediately, starting from the Australia test series. He has all the ingredients needed to be successful in tests and will almost certainly be a better option than the likes of Amir and Hasan in UAE.

He is raw but bowling long spells will help him develop further.

 

[Rayyman]

No no no. In UAE tests, we should play two pacers in the XI. Abbas will play every game and Amir+Hasan can be rotated in and out. I wouldn't drop Faheem all together so he can be the backup.

 

[alized]

What’s the point when Pakistan will drop 10 catches off him?

 

[babajee]

No no no. In UAE tests, we should play two pacers in the XI. Abbas will play every game and Amir+Hasan can be rotated in and out. I wouldn't drop Faheem all together so he can be the backup.

I was thinking Shaheen and Abbas.

 

[Titan24]

No, would be too hard on his young body especially in UAE. Maybe in SA tour

 

[Rayyman]

I was thinking Shaheen and Abbas.

Personally, no I don't think he's ready.

Overseas we have Amir, Abbas, Hasan and Faheem.

Shaheen can be the fifth squad pacer over

 

[Savak]

Am getting frustrated to see our young pacers having to constantly play their cricket in UAE. Their careers have suffered and their bowling averages have shot up constantly bowling in these conditions.

 

[the_outsider]

Absolutely not. He is too young and he will break down. Test bowling is a hard job. Let him stay in the system for another year or two and then give him test games, preferably with a debut on a SENA tour.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Maybe in South Africa but definitely not in UAE

 

[mak36]

Maybe in South Africa but definitely not in UAE

Agree with this.

 

[hussain.r97]

Not in the UAE, we can debut him in South Africa. In fact, Hasan and Amir shouldn't play in the UAE either. Our pacers for UAE tests should be Abbas and Wahab.

 

[Hasan123]

Select him for the South Africa tour. I don't think he would do any worse than Rahat or Wahab.

 

[freezerburn]

Yeah let’s give a test run so he can break his back and ruin his career

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

He needs to be given another season or two in first class cricket to understand the nuances of the longer form of the game. Maybe even send him to the county circuit for a season if possible. For now, play two spinners and two pacers in UAE. Rushing him into the side could be a bit of a mistake as raw players don't always do well...

 

[Pete Rose]

He is way too hyped. Pakistan really doesn’t need to fast track him. I don’t understand the urgency

 

[ManFan]

Nope.

In the UAE, we should stick to a 7+4 combination. Wahab (old ball), Abbas (new ball), Yasir (leg-spin), and Agha Salman or Bilal Asif (off-spin).

For overseas Tests, we need a 6+2+3 combination. Faheem (seam all-rounder), Shadab (spin all-rounder), Asif, and or Bilal (spin), Hasan (seamer one), Abbas (seamer two), and Amir (seamer three).

As bad as Amir has been, he’s been fine in the last year as he has gotten the chance to play on helpful pitches. SA will prove no different and it will be a shootout between the two teams of who can score the most runs.

That’s where the two all-rounders can be the difference as they were in 2 out of the 3 Tests in England earlier this year.

 

[Junaids]

Maybe in South Africa but definitely not in UAE

Agree with this.

Not in the UAE, we can debut him in South Africa. In fact, Hasan and Amir shouldn't play in the UAE either. Our pacers for UAE tests should be Abbas and Wahab.

Select him for the South Africa tour. I don't think he would do any worse than Rahat or Wahab.

Yes!

Yes!

Yes!

Play him in South Africa!

 

[alized]

It is possible that he might take a Fiver today against Bangladesh in this Asia Cup 2018

 

[Abdullah719]

Lahore Qalandars coach Aaqib Javed, however, minced no words in speaking his mind. “Shaheen should have been playing in this Test series against Australia and I don’t know why they have delayed him. He should have been there as I feel he is very much ready to be out there,” asserted Javed. “Shaheen is the future and nobody can stop him. He is tall, aggressive and has shown tremendous promise and wicket-taking ability. It is just a matter of time he will be there.”

https://gulfnews.com/sport/cricket/...es-telling-statement-before-inzamam-1.2287238

 

[moghul]

Let him first spoil his bowling with playing T20 cricket.

 

[Justcrazy]

Everyone cannot be given chances at the same time. Pakistan need to play players like Shaheen , Faheem , Shadab etc at least couple of first class season. They need to learn the art of Test Cricket.

 

[ahmadharis1]

No, he's literally played 2 first class matches

 

[Ahson8]

I would love to see him bowling in South Africa

 

[TeamPak95]

I think maybe if Wahab has a terrible series vs AUS, Pak could opt for Shaheen in the NZ tests.

 

[moghul]

No, he's literally played 2 first class matches

Do you how many FC games Waseem had played before his test debut and how old was he ?

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Do you how many FC games Waseem had played before his test debut and how old was he ?

If Shaheen possesses the same talent as Waseem then he is yet to show it. Anyway, the majority of players back then were unearthed from talent scouts conducted by players themselves (in Waseem's case I think it was javed Miandad). A few years after his debut Waseem went on to play 3-4 seasons of county cricket for Lancashire after Imran's recommendation and was able to understand his own game better and improve it better.

 

[Rahul1]

Not in the UAE, we can debut him in South Africa. In fact, Hasan and Amir shouldn't play in the UAE either. Our pacers for UAE tests should be Abbas and Wahab.

Why should Wahab toil on the lifeless pitches of uae while Amir gets a free pass?

 

[Fahdi]

Whatever happened to Arshad Iqbal? Shaheen's partner during the U19 WC. He at the time looked more of a test bowler than Shaheen.

 

[hussain.r97]

Why should Wahab toil on the lifeless pitches of uae while Amir gets a free pass?

Because Wahab is suited to UAE conditions, where he can steam in with short spells and get the ball the reverse.

 

[topspin]

Shaheen needs some FC cricket but he should be in the squad for the SA series.

 

[Shafi]

Yes play him all formats so that he can be expired fast!!!!!

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Shaheen needs some FC cricket but he should be in the squad for the SA series.

I think he should be told to play first class for 2 seasons after which he will be considered for the Test team. Having him with the squad but not giving him any games won't be a learning experience for him and will waste a slot in the team.

 

[Rahul1]

Because Wahab is suited to UAE conditions, where he can steam in with short spells and get the ball the reverse.

You didn't answer the second half of my question.

 

[hussain.r97]

You didn't answer the second half of my question.

Amir doesn't get a free pass, he was decent in England/Ireland Tests. However, as of now, I would not take Amir as he needs to play domestic cricket for a few months and work on his problems. Hasan, Abbas, and Shaheen should be the frontline pace attack in South Africa.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

He is not that talented to be honest, he is not express nor he can consistently move the ball around, just a decent talent with loads of potential, that's it.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

He should be in the squad at least. Very optimistic about our upcoming pacers, not only are they showing skill and pace but bowling acumen and desire to succeed along with it.

 

[ShahidDar08]

Yes definitely but it's too early. Better to give him one or two complete first class seasons.

 

[Nfc120]

Shaheen Shah Afridi in Tests

Question to the PP community--
Why is shaheen not in the test squad? Some may say its way too early for him, which is a completely valid point. He has only played 2 first class games in Pakistan. Which begs the next question, why has he not played any first class games this year? He is in A team, but I would argue that it is really important for him to build stamina and strength for the longer format of the game. Pakistan domestic cricket is in shambles, and he may not learn much in terms of technique or cricketing IQ. But he will learn lots in terms of the longest format of the game, as well as discipline. He needs to do the hard work, and toil for a season or two.

We are touring south africa this year. We need to do some extensive planning for that series. Our top order, middle order, and fast bowling all seems to be in flux. Seam and bounce, not swing or spin is going to be all important in that series. Shaheen will extract that bounce, he won't be important for this current australia series or the NZ series both in UAE, but seems like a good prospect for south africa. Can't tell if he deserves it or not unless he gets some serious first class experience in the coming months.

 

[Saj]

He's only played 2 First-Class matches.

I'd rather he just played T20Is and ODIs for now.

 

[Nfc120]

Thank you for whoever merged my new thread! I didn't mean to make a superflous thread, and didn't know fi the topic had already been discussed

 

[Nfc120]

Why isn't he playing the current season?? thats my major concern. T20s, PSL, ODIS may degrade his game in the longer format if thats what he will play exclusively. There are critical skills that he needs to pick up by playing domestic first class

 

[Hawkeye]

Thank you for whoever merged my new thread! I didn't mean to make a superflous thread, and didn't know fi the topic had already been discussed

That's all fine, worry not!

As for your question, no, he should not. Would let him try and excel in LOIs first.

Naseem however looks a quality prospect that already can play Tests. Especially outside Asia.

 

[Nfc120]

That's all fine, worry not!

As for your question, no, he should not. Would let him try and excel in LOIs first.

Naseem however looks a quality prospect that already can play Tests. Especially outside Asia.

I think my main point is that he needs to play first class. He is an unknown quantity as of now. His skill set will only improve if he spends time in the national squad, but he needs to be getting regular longer format eperience. They are sacrificing his ability to play tests by making him play these useless T20s in the A team. Look at Abbass. THe guy toiled for 3 years in domestic, and is currently reaping the rewards.

 

[Mainul]

Not yet. Play him in ODIs for one more year with first class matches

 

[MMHS]

Surely, surely he can hit 150+ at Jo'burg if he is fit; add to that almost 2 metre height.......... but kid is missing experience of Rahat & Wahab.

 

[Junaids]

Surely, surely he can hit 150+ at Jo'burg if he is fit; add to that almost 2 metre height.......... but kid is missing experience of Rahat & Wahab.

Exactly.

You and I both know that Pakistan’s First and Second Test are at Johannesburg And Centurion, where the high altitude and thin air causes greater lift and pace.

Mitchell Johnson broke Graeme Smith’s hand three times.

Shaheen Shah Afridi would be the first player I’d select, specifically to break the hands of the opener Dean Elgar and the key batsman Quinton de Kock.

Abbas, Amir and Faheem can knock off the rest of the Saffas with their accuracy.

But Shaheen Shah Afridi is a unique weapon on fast surfaces where his height will create sharp lift from a full length to break hands and arms.

 

[MMHS]

Exactly.

You and I both know that Pakistan’s First and Second Test are at Johannesburg And Centurion, where the high altitude and thin air causes greater lift and pace.

Mitchell Johnson broke Graeme Smith’s hand three times.

Shaheen Shah Afridi would be the first player I’d select, specifically to break the hands of the opener Dean Elgar and the key batsman Quinton de Kock.

Abbas, Amir and Faheem can knock off the rest of the Saffas with their accuracy.

But Shaheen Shah Afridi is a unique weapon on fast surfaces where his height will create sharp lift from a full length to break hands and arms.

You mean, 1st & 3rd Test - traditionally new year's Test is always played at Newlands. This is historically the most vertically challenged PAK attack - Amir 180cm (5'11"), Hasan & Fahim both around 170cm (5'7"), Abbas is like 175-178cm (5'10") ..... May be couple of CMs either side of this range but there is no 6 feeter in this bowling line up. SSA is a must, in fact they should pick the other tall kid Arshad as well (he is like 190cm+, 6'3"), at least for nets. Outside UAE, only place Wahab had some utility was in AUS, but not any more.

Breaking hands might be too much, but if he can keep batsmen on back foot, Abbas will hunt them one by one with his accuracy & guile. And, Amir will always be a threat on English or SAF Test wickets.

Bowling attack isn't the biggest issue if they pick the right combination. But, I am a bit nervous because apart from Amir, only other bowlers with "experience" of bowling in SAF are Wahab & Rahat ............. & probably Umar Gul.

 

[BreadPakoda]

You mean, 1st & 3rd Test - traditionally new year's Test is always played at Newlands. This is historically the most vertically challenged PAK attack - Amir 180cm (5'11"), Hasan & Fahim both around 170cm (5'7"), Abbas is like 175-178cm (5'10") ..... May be couple of CMs either side of this range but there is no 6 feeter in this bowling line up. SSA is a must, in fact they should pick the other tall kid Arshad as well (he is like 190cm+, 6'3"), at least for nets. Outside UAE, only place Wahab had some utility was in AUS, but not any more.

Breaking hands might be too much, but if he can keep batsmen on back foot, Abbas will hunt them one by one with his accuracy & guile. And, Amir will always be a threat on English or SAF Test wickets.

Bowling attack isn't the biggest issue if they pick the right combination. But, I am a bit nervous because apart from Amir, only other bowlers with "experience" of bowling in SAF are Wahab & Rahat ............. & probably Umar Gul.

When is the squad getting announced? I'm excited at the prospects of Gully bhai's return.

 

[New Yorker]

You mean, 1st & 3rd Test - traditionally new year's Test is always played at Newlands. This is historically the most vertically challenged PAK attack - Amir 180cm (5'11"), Hasan & Fahim both around 170cm (5'7"), Abbas is like 175-178cm (5'10") ..... May be couple of CMs either side of this range but there is no 6 feeter in this bowling line up. SSA is a must, in fact they should pick the other tall kid Arshad as well (he is like 190cm+, 6'3"), at least for nets. Outside UAE, only place Wahab had some utility was in AUS, but not any more.

Breaking hands might be too much, but if he can keep batsmen on back foot, Abbas will hunt them one by one with his accuracy & guile. And, Amir will always be a threat on English or SAF Test wickets.

Bowling attack isn't the biggest issue if they pick the right combination. But, I am a bit nervous because apart from Amir, only other bowlers with "experience" of bowling in SAF are Wahab & Rahat ............. & probably Umar Gul.

Shaheen is far too raw for Tests. I still think Hamza deserves a run. UAE pitches are thankless and he did no worse than Starc. If height is the problem Sadaf could of course be tried. Tallest around.

 

[Junaids]

Shaheen is far too raw for Tests. I still think Hamza deserves a run. UAE pitches are thankless and he did no worse than Starc. If height is the problem Sadaf could of course be tried. Tallest around.

As [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] has written, Abbas + Amir + Faheem is a short, slow attack.

The conditions at Centurion and Johannesburg require at least 1 Express bowler and at least 1 Tall bowler.

It doesn’t matter that Shaheen is raw. He’s quick enough and tall enough.

If he has the batsmen hopping around at one end, the medium pacers can mop them up at the other end.

 

[MMHS]

Shaheen is far too raw for Tests. I still think Hamza deserves a run. UAE pitches are thankless and he did no worse than Starc. If height is the problem Sadaf could of course be tried. Tallest around.

If you are good enough, you are aged/experienced enough. There is nothing called raw - you get experienced as you play. If there was similar quality with few Tests/years experience, I would have accepted your point; but not to accommodate Wahab, Rahat or Gul.

Yes, Hamza can make it indeed & as I wrote somewhere that his FC stats for so many wickets does tell that guy has something - at least accuracy for green tops, but he doesn’t offer any extra dimension from what is already there. Height is just one factor, but 6’6” Abhay Kuruvilla was useless with his 125K thunderbolts. I know Sadaf is like 6’5”, but can he clock 150K? Can he keep an average speed of around 140K, for a full Test day where he’ll be bowling 18-19 overs at least in may be 4-5 spells? If so, he should be first man with Abbas in the XI. I am yet to watch him in a high profile Televised game - these Utube clips are often misleading.

PAK screws themselves in both ways - first picks 4 men attack; then picks at least couple of pacers in that 4 men attack, in their 30s who were born as 3-5 years old, hence by 3rd spell, struggle for breather starts. I personally like at least 4.5 bowlers, but considering the batting struggle, of the 2 options, PAK should pick 6 batsmen and take a chance with few overs from batsmen, but those 4 bowlers can’t be 2 spells wonder.

 

[New Yorker]

As [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] has written, Abbas + Amir + Faheem is a short, slow attack.

The conditions at Centurion and Johannesburg require at least 1 Express bowler and at least 1 Tall bowler.

It doesn’t matter that Shaheen is raw. He’s quick enough and tall enough.

If he has the batsmen hopping around at one end, the medium pacers can mop them up at the other end.

Swap the name Shaheen for Wahab and you will see what is wrong with this argument. It is a loosing strategy to select bowlers on their attributes, be it speed or height, and not their ability. Phaast and
tallll is a circus act not a bowling attack.

I don't mind playing a young bowler, if that bowler is good, on this point I surely agree with [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION], but I don't think we know yet how good Shaheen is in FC cricket. That is what I meant by raw.

Hamza has proven himself over and over in FC cricket and it would boggle my mind how you could
drop him after just one Test in the UAE. It would be the height of poor selecting strategy. So he would
be my choice over Shaheen any day. Which does not mean that you could not play all three of course.
It would be an inexperienced attack, but I am not convinced that there are so many better experienced
options. I like Junaid but I don't think he brings anything Hamza does not, beyond experience.

We should learn from the success of Abbas. FC numbers mean something.

 

[New Yorker]

As [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] has written, Abbas + Amir + Faheem is a short, slow attack.

The conditions at Centurion and Johannesburg require at least 1 Express bowler and at least 1 Tall bowler.

It doesn’t matter that Shaheen is raw. He’s quick enough and tall enough.

If he has the batsmen hopping around at one end, the medium pacers can mop them up at the other end.

Amir is slow?

if we want to have batsmen hopping around, why not just select Wahab? How much evidence is there that
Shaheen is a major upgrade on Riaz?

I see a lot of promise in Shaheen, but not so much evidence yet to back up the claim that there are not better options than him.

 

[IAJ]

How good is his FC stats? He is just 18 so can’t have been playing many FC matches?. Just want to know about his Stamina and if he can keep the pace up for many overs a day.