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Should the India versus England 3rd Test pitch be rated poor or unfit? Rated Average

RedwoodOriginal said:
Don't know what you are implying. But being Number 1 technically means you are the best team in the world. Doesn't matter if you are New Zealand or Zimbabwe that is number one. Especially when there isn't one team that comfortably dominates all the others.
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Regardless of the WTC final or the rankings, there's a good reason to not rate NZ as the best team in the world. NZ have the kinda record that India for years used to get criticised for - strong home record but poor away records.

I know they have done decently well against Sri Lanka and Pakistan away, but when was the last time they won a test in India, South Africa, England or Australia though..

They won a test in 2015 in England and one at Hobart in 2011 against Australia.

The last time they won a test in South Africa, it goes back to early 1990s I think, and when they last won in India, Kapil Dev and Richard Hadlee were still playing cricket.

I have no doubt that NZ will start the heavy favourites against India (if they make it to the final) and they'll most probably win too but that doesn't absolve New Zealand's struggles away from home.
 
"We play on seaming wickets around the world and get bowled out for 47, 60. Nobody ever says a thing (about the pitch)" - Lyon

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It has to do with the origin of cricket.
 
Good honesty by NL. However, as an indian at some point -this victory also seems a bit hollow....Its not that this pitch was ideal, brilliant, awesome or something remotely similar. In fact it was difficult for batting to start off with, and throw in the zip gathered due to the lacquered pink ball and also skid off the wicket due to the night conditions renedered it even harder. In fact, Joe rott was spot on when he said that they were defeated not by the spin but by the pace and zip off the wicket. That said I would not want this wicket or this type of wickets anywhere, it just kills the skill levels if Root bowls like Murali.....we need balanced wickets that all types of bowlers and batsmen prosper, if they are good enough.
 
Don't see what the fuss is about. India played on the same wicket as England, they got out for 145 after England score 113. England had gotten out of jail and had a golden opportunity to make India pay but they blew it and India won by ten wickets on the same wickets England batted poorly. England honestly should look at themselves, they are not the best team in the world because they can't deal with Indian wickets as this series has shown.
 
This whole bickering over the pitches is nonsense. England should be proud of how well they have played. They have proved that they are a top class side.

At this point, no team in the world can give the GOAT Asian Test team a better fight in their own backyard, and England are still more likely than other teams to trounce India in their own home series.

It has been a terrific series between two incredible teams.
 
saeed5646 said:
Isn't aus arch rival of england in cricket .You are expecting unbiased answer from aussie for all the people that against poms :)))
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Exactly!
Not in a million years Lyon would’ve issued this shallow and sarcastic statement had the Australian team been on the receiving end.

The only brave and truthful statement was given by Yuvraj.
 
I have to say I agree with Lyon. It's a test of skill and India did better.

However, I do find that rubbish, nobody spinners get tons of wickets in India because the pitch does all the work. In fact, the more you spin, the worse your chances are of success.

Equivalent to Neil Mallender getting 8-fer against Pakistan because conditions did all the work.

Making heroes out of useless spinners on both sides on those kinds of pitches irks me.
 
saeed5646 said:
Isn't aus arch rival of england in cricket .You are expecting unbiased answer from aussie for all the people that against poms :)))
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You know that IND-AUS are rivals too and considering the fact that we just defeated them i don’t think they will support India in any way. This is just a spinner telling us about how people react differently to pace and spin friendly conditions.
 
street cricketer said:
Regardless of the WTC final or the rankings, there's a good reason to not rate NZ as the best team in the world. NZ have the kinda record that India for years used to get criticised for - strong home record but poor away records.

I know they have done decently well against Sri Lanka and Pakistan away, but when was the last time they won a test in India, South Africa, England or Australia though..

They won a test in 2015 in England and one at Hobart in 2011 against Australia.

The last time they won a test in South Africa, it goes back to early 1990s I think, and when they last won in India, Kapil Dev and Richard Hadlee were still playing cricket.

I have no doubt that NZ will start the heavy favourites against India (if they make it to the final) and they'll most probably win too but that doesn't absolve New Zealand's struggles away from home.
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There's a good reason not to rate India or Australia or England as the best team in the world either. Its just an opinion which isn't to far-fetched considering there hasn't been a clear number one in test cricket for decades now. Fact is there has to be one side that is the best even if the gap between that side and the others is not that significant, and even if that side's form is covered up by winning at home.

On recent form and consistency New Zealand is the best test team in the world. This may change later on when they tour abroad but right now they are the best, just like India in 2016 during that monster home run were the best.

New Zealand may have poor records in all the countries you mentioned but these days no side has a squeaky clean record. India always get hammered in England, England never win in Australia, Australia can't seem to beat India and South Africa somehow always lose to England. Meanwhile all these sides get spinned out in India. But New Zealand have won in UAE, drawn in Sri Lanka which is no small feat for a SENA side. Granted Pakistan is not an A-list side but New Zealand's away series win against Pakistan came after 30 something years.

And if you think about, they have only had two really bad away series losses in 5 odd years: the 3-0 drubbing in India in 2016 and the recent thrashing they got in Australia. Compare that with other sides who have routinely gotten smashed away and you'll see why New Zealand is number one.

Also, they have already qualified for the final.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’m all for spin friendly pitches as well but what we saw in the last 2 tests was going way to far. Balls exploding from day 1 is not acceptable. If these 2 surfaces are what is dished up then you are going to see 2/3 days test matches regularly and fast bowlers being extinct.</p>— Mark Waugh (@juniorwaugh349) <a href="https://twitter.com/juniorwaugh349/status/1365940893958610947?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2021</a></blockquote>
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Viv Richards isn’t happy with the chatter around the spin-friendly Motera pitch laid out for the third Test between India and England which resulted in the contest ending inside two days. Richards says there’s been a ‘moaning and groaning’ about the surface which is unfair because critics are claiming it was “spinning too much”.

Rohit Sharma of India and Zak Crawley of England were the only two batters who crossed fifty during the entire Test as 28 of the 30 wickets fell to spinners as the hosts registered a crushing 10-wicket win which put them 2-1 ahead in the four-match series. The likes of former England captain Michael Vaughan among others have been quite vocal in their criticism of the pitch.

“I’ve been asked questions recently about the Test match that was played in India, the second and third Test match against England,” West Indies legend Richards said in a video posted on his Facebook page. “And I am a little confused about the question really because there seems to be a lot of moaning and groaning about the wicket that they were playing on.”

He continued, “I just felt that the ones who are moaning, in my opinion, should realise that there are times that you’re going to get a seaming track, a ball that is basically jumping off a good length and everyone thinks that’s a problem for batters. But now you’ve seen the other side, and this is why I think it was given the name Test match cricket, because of the test of the mind and will and everything else that goes with it when you’re competing. And the complaints have been that the wicket is spinning too much and all that sorts of stuff. This is another side of the coin guys.

Richards said whenever a team travels to India, it is expected that the pitches will be spinner-friendly and thus England should have been better prepared for the challenge. “People seem to forget that if you’re going to India, you should expect that. You are going to spin land. You should basically prepare yourself to know what you’re going to encounter,” he said.

“Ever since that first Test match, England were in their comfort zone. They have now been taken out of their comfort zone at present and they have got to find ways and means to cope with what they are going to encounter,” he added.

Richards said spin is part of the game and England mist find a way to score runs in India. “Now that you’re in India, you are going to encounter things and have got to find a way. You’re going to get dirty. There is nothing in the rule book that says I’ve got to score my runs in pretty, classical ways,” he said.

The fourth Test will also be played in Motera.

https://www.cricketcountry.com/news...onfused-about-the-moaning-and-groaning-972092
 
What does Viv Richards know about cricket pitches?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
There's a good reason not to rate India or Australia or England as the best team in the world either. Its just an opinion which isn't to far-fetched considering there hasn't been a clear number one in test cricket for decades now. Fact is there has to be one side that is the best even if the gap between that side and the others is not that significant, and even if that side's form is covered up by winning at home.

On recent form and consistency New Zealand is the best test team in the world. This may change later on when they tour abroad but right now they are the best, just like India in 2016 during that monster home run were the best.

New Zealand may have poor records in all the countries you mentioned but these days no side has a squeaky clean record. India always get hammered in England, England never win in Australia, Australia can't seem to beat India and South Africa somehow always lose to England. Meanwhile all these sides get spinned out in India. But New Zealand have won in UAE, drawn in Sri Lanka which is no small feat for a SENA side. Granted Pakistan is not an A-list side but New Zealand's away series win against Pakistan came after 30 something years.

And if you think about, they have only had two really bad away series losses in 5 odd years: the 3-0 drubbing in India in 2016 and the recent thrashing they got in Australia. Compare that with other sides who have routinely gotten smashed away and you'll see why New Zealand is number one.

Also, they have already qualified for the final.
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Sure New Zealand are the world's best side if you go by the ICC rankings. But then again, according to the ICC points system, India winning a test in Chennai against England is the same as India winning a test at Trent Bridge. Or India beating Australia at Mumbai has the same value as India beating Australia at Melbourne. We are in a phase where teams are very strong at home but generally poor travellers by and large. So it makes sense to rate sides by their away performances in the homes of top test nations.

Yes NZ have done well to win a series in the UAE against Pakistan and draw a series in Sri Lanka. But like you yourself said, neither Pak nor SL are A list sides and current Pak in the last 5 years are not the same as when they had Misbah, Younis and Ajmal in their team. I think they even dropped a test to the West Indies in the UAE, so they're hardly at their strongest. And I don't think drawing with a Herath less Sri Lankan side is a great achievement to boast of in the CV as England showed by sweeping aside SL in their own home twice. If you look at the performance of test sides in the last 5 years (posted below), the tier I sides are clearly India, Australia, England, New Zealand and South Africa (despite their recent regression).

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So India, Aus, Eng, NZ and SA are clearly the A lister test sides. And when you look at the win/loss ratio for sides away from their home in these countries in the past 5 years (for India, it would be SENA and for NZ, it would be SEIA and so forth), these are the results:

Screenshot_20210301-132417~2.jpg

New Zealand, despite having their best ever side still performs worse in the homes of tier I test sides than a side like Pakistan or even Sri Lanka for that matter, which are going through one of their worse phases in their test history. If you extend the time period to the start of 2015 (because that was the year when NZ last won a test in those countries), their W/L ratio increases to 0.1 which is still lesser than both Pak and SL.

Sure India did get hammered in England, if one goes by the overall scoreline, but it was hardly the case if one followed the series where India were in with a chance of winning nearly all the tests they lost except the one at Lords where they got blown away on a seaming wicket under overcast skies, and they actually won a live test at Trent Bridge in that series. Same was the case in South Africa and it was only in NZ where India truly got hammered. This is unlike NZ which hardly looked like winning a single game in either Australia or India or even South Africa when they toured there a few years back.

I have no problem if you don't rate India because of their away performances in places other than Australia but surely Australia have much more claim to being the best side than NZ with their impressive performance in the Ashes in England and they did win live tests in both India and South Africa before going on to lose both series. And most importantly, they hammered New Zealand both home and away. NZ to me have a very strong home record and a decent record against the weak teams away. They have been blown away in the homes of the top tier test teams whenever they toured there, except England which is closest to the conditions in their home.
 
I've no problem with Kiwis ranked no. 1 in tests. There is a methodology (same for every team) as per which they are ranked no. 1 team in world.
 
street cricketer said:
Sure New Zealand are the world's best side if you go by the ICC rankings. But then again, according to the ICC points system, India winning a test in Chennai against England is the same as India winning a test at Trent Bridge. Or India beating Australia at Mumbai has the same value as India beating Australia at Melbourne. We are in a phase where teams are very strong at home but generally poor travellers by and large. So it makes sense to rate sides by their away performances in the homes of top test nations.

Yes NZ have done well to win a series in the UAE against Pakistan and draw a series in Sri Lanka. But like you yourself said, neither Pak nor SL are A list sides and current Pak in the last 5 years are not the same as when they had Misbah, Younis and Ajmal in their team. I think they even dropped a test to the West Indies in the UAE, so they're hardly at their strongest. And I don't think drawing with a Herath less Sri Lankan side is a great achievement to boast of in the CV as England showed by sweeping aside SL in their own home twice. If you look at the performance of test sides in the last 5 years (posted below), the tier I sides are clearly India, Australia, England, New Zealand and South Africa (despite their recent regression).

View attachment 107695

So India, Aus, Eng, NZ and SA are clearly the A lister test sides. And when you look at the win/loss ratio for sides away from their home in these countries in the past 5 years (for India, it would be SENA and for NZ, it would be SEIA and so forth), these are the results:

View attachment 107696

New Zealand, despite having their best ever side still performs worse in the homes of tier I test sides than a side like Pakistan or even Sri Lanka for that matter, which are going through one of their worse phases in their test history. If you extend the time period to the start of 2015 (because that was the year when NZ last won a test in those countries), their W/L ratio increases to 0.1 which is still lesser than both Pak and SL.

Sure India did get hammered in England, if one goes by the overall scoreline, but it was hardly the case if one followed the series where India were in with a chance of winning nearly all the tests they lost except the one at Lords where they got blown away on a seaming wicket under overcast skies, and they actually won a live test at Trent Bridge in that series. Same was the case in South Africa and it was only in NZ where India truly got hammered. This is unlike NZ which hardly looked like winning a single game in either Australia or India or even South Africa when they toured there a few years back.

I have no problem if you don't rate India because of their away performances in places other than Australia but surely Australia have much more claim to being the best side than NZ with their impressive performance in the Ashes in England and they did win live tests in both India and South Africa before going on to lose both series. And most importantly, they hammered New Zealand both home and away. NZ to me have a very strong home record and a decent record against the weak teams away. They have been blown away in the homes of the top tier test teams whenever they toured there, except England which is closest to the conditions in their home.
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Like I said, its an opinion and you are welcome to disagree with it. But Australia has absolutely no claim to the being called No.1. Sure they are an A-list side like England. But if there are two teams among which it is even debatable; its New Zealand and India.

Undoubtedly, Australia were impressive in England but at the end of the day they still could not win the series. And when you think about it they haven't won in England since 2001 while England won in Australia much more recently in 2010. Against South Africa they have been gotten smashed twice (home and away) in 2016 and 2018. In Sri Lanka they were blanked 3-0 back in 2016. Against Pakistan they were absolutely listless on both occasions in UAE. The 1-0 scoreline in 2018 it did not accurately show how comprehensively Australia were dominated in that series. Against India they were competitive in 2017 but at the end of the day India were a much better side, and I don't need to remind you about the next two series between India and Australia. They even lost a test match to Bangladesh! The only side they have had success against is New Zealand but they haven't toured New Zealand since 2015 so it can't be said that they are a better side than NZ.

While teams like New Zealand, India and England can claim to being dominant home sides with good to patchy away performances; Australia cannot even claim that. India has run over them twice, and South Africa thoroughly outclassed them in 2016.

Re: India in England. That's not a fair comparison. If you were comparing New Zealand's performance in England that was one thing; but comparing India in England to New Zealand in Australia just doesn't make any sense. And I followed that series. India did play well but at the end of the day they didn't have what it took to win games in that series. You can blame the toss or whatnot but fact is barring a few batsmen, the vast majority of the Indian batting struggled against the moving ball and the bowlers couldn't stop players like Curran from coming in and taking the game away from them routinely. It was an improved performance but the scoreline of 4-1 was damning and did show how England were almost always better than India in those conditions.

In South Africa, India could have come up with a series win. That series actually was close which is why its between New Zealand and India as the two best test teams for me, and why both likely will be in the final.
 
ICC docks three point for the home team if the pitch is rated as poor or unfit.
We have have matches finishing in under two days but I dont recall ICC ever declared a pitch or outfield poor or unfit.

That said, I genuinely believe that test matches shouldn't be finishing in under 2 days. Which isn't a crime but not a lot of fun. Not for scores of people like me me who were denied our weekend enjoying cricket without interruption..
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Like I said, its an opinion and you are welcome to disagree with it. But Australia has absolutely no claim to the being called No.1. Sure they are an A-list side like England. But if there are two teams among which it is even debatable; its New Zealand and India.

Undoubtedly, Australia were impressive in England but at the end of the day they still could not win the series. And when you think about it they haven't won in England since 2001 while England won in Australia much more recently in 2010. Against South Africa they have been gotten smashed twice (home and away) in 2016 and 2018. In Sri Lanka they were blanked 3-0 back in 2016. Against Pakistan they were absolutely listless on both occasions in UAE. The 1-0 scoreline in 2018 it did not accurately show how comprehensively Australia were dominated in that series. Against India they were competitive in 2017 but at the end of the day India were a much better side, and I don't need to remind you about the next two series between India and Australia. They even lost a test match to Bangladesh! The only side they have had success against is New Zealand but they haven't toured New Zealand since 2015 so it can't be said that they are a better side than NZ.

While teams like New Zealand, India and England can claim to being dominant home sides with good to patchy away performances; Australia cannot even claim that. India has run over them twice, and South Africa thoroughly outclassed them in 2016.

Re: India in England. That's not a fair comparison. If you were comparing New Zealand's performance in England that was one thing; but comparing India in England to New Zealand in Australia just doesn't make any sense. And I followed that series. India did play well but at the end of the day they didn't have what it took to win games in that series. You can blame the toss or whatnot but fact is barring a few batsmen, the vast majority of the Indian batting struggled against the moving ball and the bowlers couldn't stop players like Curran from coming in and taking the game away from them routinely. It was an improved performance but the scoreline of 4-1 was damning and did show how England were almost always better than India in those conditions.

In South Africa, India could have come up with a series win. That series actually was close which is why its between New Zealand and India as the two best test teams for me, and why both likely will be in the final.
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Let's agree to disagree here. I think Australia are more closer to winning a series in India or England or South Africa than New Zealand are and I think Australia would still win in New Zealand if they were to play now (NZ just have a huge mental block against Aus). Guys like Burns, Marsh, Head, Khawaja or even Voges who all struggle against the top sides become Bradman against the kiwis. Smith was sub par in the series two years back and still NZ were never in the fight.

I think NZ had the easiest of schedules among all top teams with respect to the WTC and fair play to them, they took full advantage of it and made the final. Pak have an easy schedule next cycle and I hope they take full advantage as well so that we can probably see an Indo-Pak test final if India play well and make the final too.
 
Saj said:
Nothing yet from ICC.

Don't hold your breath.

If the ICC were to dare to declare the pitch poor, I'm sure the BCCI would put the England squad on the next plane to Heathrow.
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They would not as that would be a massive financial windfall for a board which has struggled financially in the not too distant past. The problem is the ICC is a non existent governing body.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Oh you mean the series in which he averaged 57, was India's leading run-scorer and scored runs on difficult rank-turning tracks like Bangalore?

Here are Pujara's series averages for the home series he has played since the 2017/18 Australia series.


57.80 vs Sri Lanka
48 vs West Indies
36.25 vs South Africa
54.50 vs Bangladesh

I stand corrected he has had two bad series since then.

But remember bro, you gotta slice and dice the stats. Can't lift things you hear on TV and plant them here. Also, please stop thinking that just because someone is not an Indian cricket fan therefore you can look down on them. Pujara's series numbers prove he is just human and is prone to having one or two bad series like everyone.

But to say he is not one of the best players of spin in the world and India who have Rohit, Virat and Pujara in their top 4 are not the best team against spin in the world just betrays common sense.
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You are still misinterpreting us mate:

Nobody here stated Pujara was poor with spin (recent times) because his average was bad. It was the other way around.

We said Pujara hasn't looked good off late and his technique has left a lot to be desired.

For which, you commented we don't know much if we think that.

So we provided statistically evidence for that.

There is actual play and stats.

Since Pujara is getting out in a basic way against Leach making the most obvious of errors, me & jnaveen were concerned.

Of course, Pujara is an INCREDIBLE player of spin.

The clutchest of them all imho.

But that doesn't mean he can never make mistakes or that his technique could have issues.

Same with Kohli.

Used to look great. But is average now.

Rahane was always weak against spin.

Rohit has been good and scores (even with his issues).

So who else is left:

Gill - incredible talent but a newbie
Rohit - Good
Pujara - Incredible against spin but poor offlate
Kohli - Not good these days against spin (not just in tests but even in LOIs)
Rahane - Poor against spin
Next comes Pant and tail.

No one is saying India is inferior to other players when it comes to spin.

It's like a class where topper scores 40 marks out of 100 while others score 20-40.

Sure the 40 marks guy is a TOPPER technically but he sucks too.

That was the point.
 
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^Another point is that this lineup doesn't have to face Ashwin-Jaddu-Umesh-Shami at home while others have to.
 
street cricketer said:
Let's agree to disagree here. I think Australia are more closer to winning a series in India or England or South Africa than New Zealand are and I think Australia would still win in New Zealand if they were to play now (NZ just have a huge mental block against Aus). Guys like Burns, Marsh, Head, Khawaja or even Voges who all struggle against the top sides become Bradman against the kiwis. Smith was sub par in the series two years back and still NZ were never in the fight.

I think NZ had the easiest of schedules among all top teams with respect to the WTC and fair play to them, they took full advantage of it and made the final. Pak have an easy schedule next cycle and I hope they take full advantage as well so that we can probably see an Indo-Pak test final if India play well and make the final too.
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Fair enough.

And as for New Zealand, I think if there are any deficiencies they will be exposed sooner or later. I agree that they had had an easy schedule with ALOT of home games but they still deserve credit for not losing even a single test match at home in 4 years. That's something no other team has managed in this time period. Regardless, no team can coast simply on home form.

Pakistan do have a surprisingly easy schedule leading upto 2023. In all fairness they should make the final but with Pakistan nothing is ever guaranteed. Would be interesting to see an India-Pakistan final though I can't say I fancy our chances in such a case with the final being in India.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Fair enough.

And as for New Zealand, I think if there are any deficiencies they will be exposed sooner or later. I agree that they had had an easy schedule with ALOT of home games but they still deserve credit for not losing even a single test match at home in 4 years. That's something no other team has managed in this time period. Regardless, no team can coast simply on home form.

Pakistan do have a surprisingly easy schedule leading upto 2023. In all fairness they should make the final but with Pakistan nothing is ever guaranteed. Would be interesting to see an India-Pakistan final though I can't say I fancy our chances in such a case with the final being in India.
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With this year's WTC final being scheduled in England, the final for the next cycle might well happen in Australia (as the 2023 WC is happening in India). Wouldn't be surprised if it happens at the MCG.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
You know that IND-AUS are rivals too and considering the fact that we just defeated them i don’t think they will support India in any way. This is just a spinner telling us about how people react differently to pace and spin friendly conditions.
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Lyon is not supporting anyone but taking a dig at their arch rival which is quite common in sports .
 
saeed5646 said:
Lyon is not supporting anyone but taking a dig at their arch rival which is quite common in sports .
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Yes Lyon , Richard said anything that is dig or made up but Dale Steyn said anything that is correct for Pakistan fans .:jk
 
Devadwal said:
Yes Lyon , Richard said anything that is dig or made up but Dale Steyn said anything that is correct for Pakistan fans .:jk
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yup only lyon opinion matters other aussie cricketer are dumb Mark waugh :genius

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’m all for spin friendly pitches as well but what we saw in the last 2 tests was going way to far. Balls exploding from day 1 is not acceptable. If these 2 surfaces are what is dished up then you are going to see 2/3 days test matches regularly and fast bowlers being extinct.</p>— Mark Waugh (@juniorwaugh349) <a href="https://twitter.com/juniorwaugh349/status/1365940893958610947?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
saeed5646 said:
yup only lyon opinion matters other aussie cricketer are dumb Mark waugh :genius

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I’m all for spin friendly pitches as well but what we saw in the last 2 tests was going way to far. Balls exploding from day 1 is not acceptable. If these 2 surfaces are what is dished up then you are going to see 2/3 days test matches regularly and fast bowlers being extinct.</p>— Mark Waugh (@juniorwaugh349) <a href="https://twitter.com/juniorwaugh349/status/1365940893958610947?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Alll have their opinion but think they made up or take dig to others team that's was nonsense .where was Mark Waugh when Australia bundles out for 47 or 60 ?
For me just play whatever pitch home teams provided .india Team / fans never gave excuse of pitch whenever we lost .
 
street cricketer said:
With this year's WTC final being scheduled in England, the final for the next cycle might well happen in Australia (as the 2023 WC is happening in India). Wouldn't be surprised if it happens at the MCG.
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Haha for Pakistan that's actually worse. India though would be happy to play the final in MCG.
 
Devadwal said:
Alll have their opinion but think they made up or take dig to others team that's was nonsense .where was Mark Waugh when Australia bundles out for 47 or 60 ?
For me just play whatever pitch home teams provided .india Team / fans never gave excuse of pitch whenever we lost .
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If a pitch is horrible then it should get criticized regardless of the location. While I agree that players shouldn't be the ones criticizing pitches; ex-players, journalists, match referees should.

At the end of the day, almost every team does it. India themselves got one of the most downright dangerous pitches in recent memory against South Africa at Jo'burg. This is why match referees have a responsibility to call out such pitches. Because any game ending in two days is not a good advertisement for test cricket.
 
Mamoon said:
This whole bickering over the pitches is nonsense. England should be proud of how well they have played. They have proved that they are a top class side.

At this point, no team in the world can give the GOAT Asian Test team a better fight in their own backyard, and England are still more likely than other teams to trounce India in their own home series.

It has been a terrific series between two incredible teams.
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:))) you were crying about the pitch and so called poor quality of cricket in 2 tests between pak and south africa. Yet when your beloved india produce pathetic tracks and quality of cricket is worse then village standard between two teams then india are proclaimed as GOAT team and england should be proud.

The nonsense that you write in ur posts is commical and hypocrytical to say least.
 
To be fair if those dangerous seaming unfit wickets NZ served up for India in 2003 was rated poor by ICC then the recently finished 3rd test pitch to be rated poor is definitely worth consideration...
 
Not much to complain about in life, matches finish quickly in England too: Jofra Archer

Amid the ongoing pitch debate, England pacer Jofra Archer has said that pitches don't matter, there is not much to complain about in life and matches finish quickly in England too.

The speedster added that batting wasn't easy but one should expect the ball to spin when in India.

The quality of Ahmedabad pitch for the 3rd Test has been a topic of debate ever since India won the match inside 2 days. As many as 30 wickets inside 6 sessions. Archer reckoned that matches finish "quickly" in England as well and even recalled similar finishes in matches he was involved in past.

"To me, it doesn’t matter what pitches we play on. There’s not much to complain about in life — apart from bad Wi-Fi, of course!

"The day-nighter I played against Glamorgan three years ago was over in five sessions and on the day I signed my first Sussex contract we beat Leicestershire inside two days, so matches finish quickly in England, too.

"Let’s be honest, we are in India and we have to expect the ball to spin. That’s fine. Although it doesn’t mean that batting is easy," Jofra Archer wrote for the Daily Mail.

Further, Archer stated that playing against India spinner R Ashwin and Axar Patel in the first innings of 3rd Test was hard and it was that moment when the team was encouraged to play "fearless" cricket by their captain Joe Root. With draw not helping England's cause to qualify for the World Test Championship final, Root had realised that the team had nothing to lose.

"In the first innings in Ahmedabad, it felt hard to get the ball away against their spinners Ravichandran Ashwin and Axar Patel.

"And so, ahead of the second innings, Joe Root encouraged us all to be fearless in our approach.

"He wanted us to realise we had nothing to lose and not to go into our shells, and he urged us to keep the same mentality for the rest of this series.

"Draws were no good to us in our quest to make the World Test Championship final, so it was important to be positive."

https://www.indiatoday.in/sports/cr...side-2-days-in-england-too-1774561-2021-03-02
 
Even with one day to go for the fourth and final Test match between India and England, the debate surrounding the third Test match at the Narendra Modi Stadium is as hot as ever. The match that saw India wrap up a 10-wicket-win inside two days – the first time in 54 years that a Test match has finished in two days, has left the cricketing world divided over the pitch that was used.

While some believe the wicket was far from ideal to host a Test match, there are those who reckon it's part and parcel of the game. Former cricketers such as Michael Vaughan, Gautam Gambhir, David Lloyd, Shoaib Akhtar, Viv Richards and many more have voiced their opinions, some criticising the surface, some defending it.

The latest to weigh in on the debate is former Pakistan captain Inzamam-Ul-Haq, who has blatantly expressed that such a wicket is not good for the health of Test cricket. A perplexed Inzamam seemed to be having a tough time digesting the fact that a Test match got over in two days, and expects the ICC to take some action against it.

"No one could have thought, and neither can I remember when was the last time a Test match got over in two days. Did India play that well or was it the behaviour of the wicket? Should such wickets be part of Test matches? I thought India were playing some brilliant cricket. They beat Australia earlier and made a brilliant comeback in the second Test, but preparing such a wicket, I feel is not the right thing to do with cricket," Inzamam said on his YouTube channel.

"Even scorecards in T20 matches read better than the one we saw in Ahmedabad. The ICC should take action on this. What sort of wickets are these that a Test match cannot even last two entire days? 17 wickets falling in less than one day… what are we playing on here? Sure, you take home advantage, spinning tracks should be made, but this sort of pitch I don't think should exist."

Inzamam explained how uneven wickets should not be allowed to host Test matches. The former Pakistan batsman brought to light the Barbados Test match between India and West Indies in 1997, where the visitors, chasing 120 to win, were infamously bowled out for 81, pointing out how that was an equally poor wicket and so much was said about it.

"I feel that as a former cricketer, such type of cricket should not be played. When teams come to the sub-continent that they will encounter spin-friendly encounters, but to this extent? I remember in the West Indies, in the fourth innings, it was such an uneven wicket. India needed some 100-125 runs to win (120) and they all got out (81), so much of noise was made even then," Inzamam added.

"If Joe Root is picking up five wickets in six overs, you can imagine the condition of the wicket. Why should I praise R Ashwin and Axar Patel, when Root is picking up 5/8? Test matches have so many important elements, the venue, the ground, the umpire, referee, so a pitch should also hold some significance. Test match should look like a Test match. Don't think India would have derived the same satisfaction from this win as they did after beating Australia."

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...-against-ahmedabad-pitch-101614735393952.html
 
Amidst the raging controversy over the pitches in India, former Pakistan speedster Shoaib Akhtar has come out to have his say on the issue. Akhtar, who represented Pakistan from 1997 to 2011, criticised Team India for using home advantage 'too much' adding that Kohli & Co. do not require assistance from the pitch to win a game. The Rawalpindi Express denounced the Ahmedabad pitch by stating that it was not an even contest between bat and ball.

In a video posted on his YouTube channel, Akhtar said, "Should Test matches be played on such wickets? Not at all. A pitch where there is so much unreasonable turn, that a match gets finished in two days, is not good for Test cricket. I understand the concept of home advantage but this sort of advantage I believe is a little too much. If India had scored 400 runs and England got out for 200, then one could say that England played poorly. But here, even India was shot out for 145."

Opining that India should play 'fair,' the 45-year-old cited the example of the Men in Blue's recent victories in Australia. "I thought India is a bigger, better team than this. There should be fair play and fair pitches where I think India can still beat England. They don’t need to be scared. There is no need for India to prepare such wickets. Did we make the wicket in favour of India in Adelaide? Was the wicket in Melbourne made in favour of India? How did they win the series there? You play on fair ground, fair conditions, and say ‘Look, we can play well at home and abroad,” he added.

https://www.republicworld.com/sport...izes-team-india-for-using-home-advantage.html
 
Also Michael Vaughan when a game gets over in 2 days :yk

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">English conditions YES ... Would you expect England to Win YES ... but to hammer the No1 Team inside 2 allocated days is some effort ... I declare it <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BeerOclock?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BeerOclock</a></p>— Michael Vaughan (@MichaelVaughan) <a href="https://twitter.com/MichaelVaughan/status/1028701412493090817?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 12, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Andrew Strauss - Not pleased with Indian pitches

Throughout the series broadcast he has not been happy and here he states "Kohli moaned about the first test pitch" and "the Indian batsmen could not score, so these were very difficult pitches to bat on...Kohli only averaged 28".

What do you guys think of that?
 
These analysts dont know anything.

Kohli averaged 28 so pitches are bad. Lol.

We forum posters would humiliate many of these so called analysts on a one on one debate lol.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mastimasti said:
Throughout the series broadcast he has not been happy and here he states "Kohli moaned about the first test pitch" and "the Indian batsmen could not score, so these were very difficult pitches to bat on...Kohli only averaged 28".

What do you guys think of that?
Click to expand...

Please post your sources, so we can tear Strauss apart :rabada2

You should know about this, as you were busy asking for sources from [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] regarding the terrible-looking egg that Alex Hales was served. This despite Hales' twitter post on the same issue a few posts above in that thread :)
 
BreadPakoda said:
Also Michael Vaughan when a game gets over in 2 days :yk

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">English conditions YES ... Would you expect England to Win YES ... but to hammer the No1 Team inside 2 allocated days is some effort ... I declare it <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BeerOclock?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BeerOclock</a></p>— Michael Vaughan (@MichaelVaughan) <a href="https://twitter.com/MichaelVaughan/status/1028701412493090817?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 12, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

Vaughan is a certified troll and shouldn't be taken too seriously
 
pillionrider said:
Please post your sources, so we can tear Strauss apart :rabada2

You should know about this, as you were busy asking for sources from [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] regarding the terrible-looking egg that Alex Hales was served. This despite Hales' twitter post on the same issue a few posts above in that thread :)
Click to expand...

It's on the channel 4 post match analysis.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
These analysts dont know anything.

Kohli averaged 28 so pitches are bad. Lol.

We forum posters would humiliate many of these so called analysts on a one on one debate lol.
Click to expand...
Kohli averaged 13 in that 2014 England series so going by that logic pitches were twice as bad they are in this series.

English 'analysts' and their joke logic. And to think this guy was/is their Director of Cricket. I heard Giles too was once their Director of Cricket.

Having such medicore cricketers in leadership positions will give them such results only.
 
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One man who was truly magical in whatever he did was KP, should have been a top shot in their cricket administration. But we all know he is a pariah in English cricket and ECB doesn't like such characters.
 
MP2011 said:
Kohli averaged 13 in that 2014 England series so going by that logic pitches were twice as bad they are in this
Click to expand...

Lol yeah.

:))

Cricket is probably the only sport where such incompetency is tolerated.

To think these experts get paid to talk nonsense :))
 
What are the averages of Rohit, Pant, Sundar and Root in this series?

What is the bowling average of Leech and Bess?
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
These analysts dont know jackshit.

Kohli averaged 28 so pitches are bad. Lol.

We forum posters would humiliate many of these so called analysts on a one on one debate lol.
Click to expand...

Agree. Strauss is poor and Vaughan is worse.

I have missed the articulate, knowledgable and balanced insight of the Sky team and their high-tech analysis — really glad that they will be back soon. Particularly Nasser, Atherton, Holding & Co. Even Bumble (who I never really “got”) and Rob Key would be welcome at this point. Also a great pity that they did not retain Gower.
 
James said:
Agree. Strauss is poor and Vaughan is worse.

I have missed the articulate, knowledgable and balanced insight of the Sky team and their high-tech analysis — really glad that they will be back soon. Particularly Nasser, Atherton, Holding & Co. Even Bumble (who I never really “got”) and Rob Key would be welcome at this point. Also a great pity that they did not retain Gower.
Click to expand...

Indeed.

The best part about India vs Eng test games was the Sky coverage and their analysts.

They are sooo far ahead of others that it's ridiculous.

Atherton and Nasser are absolute class...well supported by others.

Back in 2016, when England toured India, I would check Youtube for Sky's end of the day studio analysis (someone would upload an illegal video :)) ).

Not sure if it was Sky but that's besides the point.

In that show, there would be Bob Willis (rip) going all out. Praise or criticism...he never holds back and was very very insightful.

I know there are quite a few Indians who got offended by their overuse of phrase "in these conditions". I get it but personally, I never felt it was used in a demeaning manner. If someone performs all over the world, these phrases stop being used.

What makes listening to these analysts so much fun is they are neither boring nor stooges toeing the official party line. So their praise means something and if they are criticising you, chances are there is a reason for that.

For example:

Nasser Hussain talked about how pitches were flat in 2016 (when normally commies would talk about how their team had overcome "tough alien conditions").

This time, Nasser & Atherton did talk about tough pitches but they focused a lot more on poor techniques which as the series wore on, turned out to be bang on.

The best part was Atherton's recent article schooling all the noobs.

He gave a GREAT breakdown of why its harder to play on turning tracks these days.

It's not only due to bad techniques (which sure contributed to the cause).

It's not due to DRS (which everyone blames - which turned out to be true as I found out Ash & Jaddu have the same stats pre and post DRS).

It's due to the fact that you can't kick the ball away and umpires had started giving lbw decisions on the front foot from around 2001.

He gives statistical breakdown for that type of dismissals spinners used to have and how having to use the bat NOW instead of the pad as the main line of defence changed EVERYTHING.

Very insightful.

This is REAL analysis.

Turns an anecdotal theory into a well reasoned argument backed by stats.

Wish we had more analysts like them.

The more opinionated they are, the better. As long as they can back it up.

Even if we disagree with some of their views, we would still appreciate their arguments and try to see where they are coming from and perhaps even shift our own views if the reasons are very compelling.
 
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Why allocate 5 days and waste time n resources?

We all want to watch good hard fought cricket, but a 5 day game ends in two days.
This is sorta disappointing, even for some Indian fans too.

If we are playing on such pitches then instead of 4 match series, we can allocate 2 days for a test, and play an 8 match test series in the same tour.

I wouldn’t mind that.
 
Colorblind Genius said:
We all want to watch good hard fought cricket, but a 5 day game ends in two days.
This is sorta disappointing, even for some Indian fans too.
Click to expand...

Not in the least. After a year of COVID, have been desperately waiting to see visiting teams :hamster: on Indian pitches.

And boy, did they put on a show :rabada2
 
pillionrider said:
Not in the least. After a year of COVID, have been desperately waiting to see visiting teams :hamster: on Indian pitches.

And boy, did they put on a show :rabada2
Click to expand...

What show?
When it was a sporting and neutral wicket, they proved to be the better team.
You guys turned around and made dust bowls.
And what did you see? One sided games, no see saw moments, no fight, no uncertainty on the outcome, no locking horns,,,, just one sided games ending in 2 odd days. Is that the test cricket show they put on for you?
 
Colorblind Genius said:
What show?
When it was a sporting and neutral wicket, they proved to be the better team.
You guys turned around and made dust bowls.
And what did you see? One sided games, no see saw moments, no fight, no uncertainty on the outcome, no locking horns,,,, just one sided games ending in 2 odd days. Is that the test cricket show they put on for you?
Click to expand...

Flat wicket + toss win = sporting and neutral wicket :afridi1

Oh yes, they put on a show. Though I was referring to their dancing skills. :rabada2
 
pillionrider said:
Flat wicket + toss win = sporting and neutral wicket :afridi1

Oh yes, they put on a show. Though I was referring to their dancing skills. :rabada2
Click to expand...
So people are still sooking about pitches. Even English team isn't doing that. Come off it.
 
And this after England won 3/4 tosses in this series. They won 4/5 tosses last time as well and still 0-4.
 
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The pitch that was used for the third Test between India and England at Ahmedabad was criticized by several former cricketers. The hugely anticipated Pink ball Test match was done and dusted in 2 days, as the Indian side romped home with 10 wickets to spare.

And, one of the eagerly anticipated results was the rating that the pitch would get. And now, we have the answer. The pitch has received a rating of ‘average’, meaning that there will be no penalties or sanctions that will be imposed. Also, the pitch that was used for the 4th Test at the same venue has received a ‘Good’ rating.

The 4th Test fared marginally better than the 3rd Test in terms of duration and lasted for 3 days. The Virat Kohli led side pummeled England in the 4th Test match, and beat them by an innings and 25 runs. Also, while the pitch used for the first rubber in Chennai has received a ‘Very Good’ rating, the pitch used for the second Test at the same venue received an ‘Average’ rating.
 
So England won on the only Test match pitch in the series that was rated as “Very Good” :boycott
 
1) Very Good ( India starts overconfidently and then loses)

2) Average ( Kohli panicks, doesn't want to lose series as captain after what Rahane did in Australia)

3) Average ( Kohli continues with same strategy so that he can play test championship)

4) Good ( Ah fine, we can't lose now, let's dish out a okayish pitch)


Series over, Tamasha on pitches to continue
 
Saj said:
The pitch has received a rating of ‘average’, meaning that there will be no penalties or sanctions that will be imposed.
Click to expand...

Geil said:
According to the ICC's pitch and outfield monitoring process, a pitch is said to be poor if any of the following apply:

The pitch offers excessive seam movement at any stage of the match
The pitch displays excessive unevenness of bounce for any bowler at any stage of the match
The pitch offers excessive assistance to spin bowlers, especially early in the match
The pitch displays little or no seam movement or turn at any stage in the match together with no significant bounce or carry, thereby depriving the bowlers of a fair contest between bat and ball

This pitch certainly offered assistance to spinners but I am not so sure it offered excessive assistance, this is where I have my opinion differ from others, I would rate it as Average because this pitch wasn't like the pitches we have seen in Nagpur in 2015 or the 2017 pune pitch
Click to expand...

My opinion were right all along when I started the thread that it would be rated "Average" by ICC.

Absolutely right decision made as it wasn't a poor pitch by ICC standards, If they had rated it poor then their past decisions of rating other pitches would have come to scrutiny.

If look at the pitches ICC has rated poor in the past and compare it with the Ahmadabad pitch, it doesn't look similar as Ahmadabad pitch was certainly better than the pitches which were rated poor in the past.

At-least ICC have been consistent with their rating of pitches
 
Well deserved.

That pitch was atrocious.

Any test that lasts a day and a few hours should raise serious questions on the surface.
 
MP2011 said:
So people are still sooking about pitches. Even English team isn't doing that. Come off it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, people are still talking about pitches.

We didn’t know what to do on that pitch, says Virat Kohli after losing the first T20
 
Colorblind Genius said:
Yeah, people are still talking about pitches.

We didn’t know what to do on that pitch, says Virat Kohli after losing the first T20
Click to expand...

How is he blaming the pitch? He is blaming his own batsmen for not reading and playing the pitch. He never said the pitch was poor, only that the batsmen didn't read it and adjust for it
 
leg-side-flick said:
1) Very Good ( India starts overconfidently and then loses)

2) Average ( Kohli panicks, doesn't want to lose series as captain after what Rahane did in Australia)

3) Average ( Kohli continues with same strategy so that he can play test championship)

4) Good ( Ah fine, we can't lose now, let's dish out a okayish pitch)


Series over, Tamasha on pitches to continue
Click to expand...

Varun said:
Well deserved.

That pitch was atrocious.

Any test that lasts a day and a few hours should raise serious questions on the surface.
Click to expand...

The match lasting so less had more to do with the pink ball than the pitch. The pink ball was skidding and the batsmen werent able to read it off the pitch and were out to straight ones. The modern batsmen dont use their feet as much as the earlier ones did. They read variations off the pitch. The pink ball was beating them for pace and they were not able to adjust.

A pink ball match should not be compared with regular ones.
 
Indiafan said:
The match lasting so less had more to do with the pink ball than the pitch. The pink ball was skidding and the batsmen werent able to read it off the pitch and were out to straight ones. The modern batsmen dont use their feet as much as the earlier ones did. They read variations off the pitch. The pink ball was beating them for pace and they were not able to adjust.

A pink ball match should not be compared with regular ones.
Click to expand...

Whenever there is a test of the skill, technique of batsmen and they fail, the blame lies with the pitch as per so called experts. They want only bowlers to evolve in all formats and on any pitch but not the batsmen. Instead of moaning why not accept that batsmen were poor from both the sides. Fail in the exam and blame the question paper instead of coming prepared.
 
Not sure anyone can claim with a straight face that there wasn't any variable bounce in any way at all on that pitch which makes the average rating laughable.
 
HitWicket said:
Not sure anyone can claim with a straight face that there wasn't any variable bounce in any way at all on that pitch which makes the average rating laughable.
Click to expand...

I agree, it's a total cop out from the ICC, that was as poor a pitch as we have seen for a long while. They have used the pink ball as an excuse to not make a potentially dangerous decision.
 
HitWicket said:
Not sure anyone can claim with a straight face that there wasn't any variable bounce in any way at all on that pitch which makes the average rating laughable.
Click to expand...

How many wickets fell due to variable bounce?

Which ball bounced steeply?
 
The pink ball not withstanding, it was a horrible pitch. The pitch for the 4th test should have been the standard for all 4 tests. That's a good wicket that will assist pacers, spinners. Batsmen are tested and yet can score if they settle. I thought the 2nd Chennai test pitch was average. The third test pitch was substandard.
 
Saurav said:
How many wickets fell due to variable bounce?

Which ball bounced steeply?
Click to expand...

None directly off the top of my head, I don't recall anything bouncing particularly steeply/dangerously. Doesn't change the fact that variable bounce was present making the pitch undeserving of an average rating.
 
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HitWicket said:
None directly off the top of my head, I don't recall anything bouncing particularly steeply/dangerously. Doesn't change the fact that variable bounce was present making the pitch undeserving of an average rating.
Click to expand...

You cannot remember any steeply bouncing deliveries. Yet you claim variable bounce. Lol.
 
cricketjoshila said:
You cannot remember any steeply bouncing deliveries. Yet you claim variable bounce. Lol.
Click to expand...

Steep bounce suggests good length balls were popping up unexpectedly/dangerously off a good length, that is not the only situation of variable bounce.
 
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