Should the UK ban the burqa in the name of public safety?

[Rajdeep]

There is a lot of debate going on in UK about this topic.

What is the Story:
Parliament's newest MP, who recently won the Runcorn & Helsby by-election, urged the prime minister to "ban the burqa" in the interests of public safety. She asked Keir Starmer in parliament on Wednesday: “Given the prime minister’s desire to strengthen strategic alignment with our European neighbours, will he in the interests of public safety follow the lead of France, Denmark, Belgium and others and ban the burqa?”

Reform UKs position
Nigel Farage, the party leader, also weighed in later on GB News, saying: “I don’t think face coverings in public places make sense, and we deserve a debate about this.”

However, party’s chair, Zia Yusuf, saying it was a “dumb” question given that was not party policy. “Nothing to do with me. Had no idea about the question nor that it wasn’t policy. Busy with other stuff. I do think it’s dumb for a party to ask the PM if they would do something the party itself wouldn’t do,” he wrote.

MP Rupert Lowe backed a burqa ban, saying: “The burqa is a political symbol: it represents a deeply patriarchal and unpleasant worldview that has no place in our society. We must defend the freedom of girls and women born into a culture where that suffocation isn’t a choice, but a rule. Let’s ban the burqa.”

The idea was also endorsed by Nick Timothy, a Tory MP and former chief of staff to Theresa May, who said on X: “The burqa is as British as Jeddah and yes it should be banned.”

Reform UK row as party chair calls new MP’s burqa ban question ‘dumb’

Party says ban is not its policy after Sarah Pochin called on the prime minister to introduce one

www.theguardian.com

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Should Britain follow France, Belgium and other European countries and ban burqa for public safety or this is a pure racist call by the MP?

 

[Rajdeep]

Sincere apologies to open the thread in cricket section by mistake. Request moderators to move it in Time Pass

 

[Rajdeep]

British Pak posters, what do you think of this issue? Did Zia Yusuf made the right decision to quit reform?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

British Pak posters, what do you think of this issue? Did Zia Yusuf made the right decision to quit reform?

From what I read this morning he is back on board. Seems Nigel Farage won't contemplate going forward without him.

On the subject itself, I am not a fan of burqa but the safety issue is a red herring. The real reason it is an issue is because dog whistle politics gets votes. I don't particularly care either way at this point, if Brits want to waste their time arguing useless stuff go for it. My concern would be that it is indicative we are going backwards as a nation and don't really know what to do about it.

 

[emranabbas]

doesn't really matter what British reform wants this is the same party who only won 5 seats compared to labours 411 and conservatives 121, Indians don't need to get excited nobody takes this party serious in uk

 

[Bhaijaan]

It is a human right.
If a woman wants to keep the Burqa then by all means she must be allowed and her personal space and boundaries must be respected by everyone.

Let’s be clear about one thing.
Whereas Islamists pose a threat to the free world anywhere in the world, the regular Muslims who do not support the ideology of expansionism or oppression are no problem for anyone and their personal space and way of life must be respected.

Devout Muslims must be respected and we are no one to judge a culture.

Also, hate mongering against Burqa is a Western thing. Sanatan Dharma has never made an issue out of it.

 

[Rajdeep]

It is a human right.
If a woman wants to keep the Burqa then by all means she must be allowed and her personal space and boundaries must be respected by everyone.

Let’s be clear about one thing.
Whereas Islamists pose a threat to the free world anywhere in the world, the regular Muslims who do not support the ideology of expansionism or oppression are no problem for anyone and their personal space and way of life must be respected.

Devout Muslims must be respected and we are no one to judge a culture.

Also, hate mongering against Burqa is a Western thing. Sanatan Dharma has never made an issue out of it.

Most European countries are banning Burqa or calling for it not to hurt religious sentiment of others but it is seen as oppression of women and symbol of patriarchy.

 

[RexRex]

Ban the letterbox. It is a symbol of oppression.

I know some women wear it deliberately just to remain anonymous in public but I don't think it is good for a healthy society - to not see each other's faces.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Most European countries are banning Burqa or calling for it not to hurt religious sentiment of others but it is seen as oppression of women and symbol of patriarchy.

Screw the West.
They are the most backward, arrogant and violent people on this planet.

We share a generational relationship with Islam. Countries like Saudi, the Gulf nations and the people of Iran (not their dictatorship) are our brothers and we share a very warm relationship with them.

Please don’t allow the b@stardized version of a great community to ruin the relationship Sanatanis share with true sons of Mohammad peace be upon him.

The Burqa is a woman’s choice. For as long as she wears it happily we are no one to say otherwise. Let’s be respectful to the Islamic women who are our sisters and we shall never betray this pure relationship for what the bloody Westerners say.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Indians must know that no where in the world they face the kind of deep racism that they face from Westerners.

The Muslim world despite the issues created by the converts with the Hindus remain largely and overwhelmingly Hindu friendly. This is exactly what i posted in another thread where a respected poster presented a completely different picture of Muslim worlds views on Indians and i am not accusing him of spreading fake information, I have mentioned quite clearly how warmly I have always been welcomed by the muslim world. I feel safer and more welcomed in the muslim world than I do in Western nations and i am never going to betray this friendship for superficial dual faced racist Westerners who will suffer our wrath every soon. Mark my word.

Don’t ever create issues with Muslims by blindly following the West. Muslim world the real 100% original Muslims are much better than these Western animals.

 

[ElRaja]

this is a tough one, i don't believe in regulating what people wear. im not in favour of full face coverings, they are illogical and present a significant security risk. i dont know anyone who wears one. ive never known anyone who wears one.

 

[Rajdeep]

this is a tough one, i don't believe in regulating what people wear. im not in favour of full face coverings, they are illogical and present a significant security risk. i dont know anyone who wears one. ive never known anyone who wears one.

Is it true that Burqa is not religious symbol but a tradition that was followed in the past where women in Arab world used to cover their head and face from sand dunes/sand storms? Genuine question.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I will share an experience, the first time i visited Saudi i was hell scared of even looking at women after hearing all the exaggerated stories about how the Saudis give out punishments and stuff.

Whenever i saw women i just looked the i other direction. But so many times when I had trouble figuring out things the local women , many wearing Burqa came out in support and were so helpful. You have to look at people as humans.

Although now when you go there you see women like you do in Turkey, central Asian countries and all. Many young girls don’t wear it and it’s the current generation Saudi men who are empowering their daughters to live the world. Let this change come organically from their side if they want it. Don’t judge or impose your way of life on them.

You go to Jeddah corniche in the evenings and you see dads with their wife/ wives and their little boys are playing football and the little girls are all running around and doing their stuff. I don’t many of these little girls will go on to wear a Burqa and will be great women and contributors to society. But if they choose to wear it out of respect for the culture, no one should judge.

 

[ElRaja]

Is it true that Burqa is not religious symbol but a tradition that was followed in the past where women in Arab world used to cover their head and face from sand dunes/sand storms? Genuine question.

im not a religious expert, and im not religious, so im not talking from a religious point of view, however there is historical evidence that women used to cover their faces long before islam, for what reason we cant totally be sure, but most likely cultural, however some used to keep their busts, arms and ankles exposed, however post islam this was stopped.

someone more religious can correct me however that the quran ordered the wives and daughters of the prophet to speak to non familial men from behind a screen, essentially segregation, but in the event of mixing covering their faces, im guessing.

 

[Rajdeep]

doesn't really matter what British reform wants this is the same party who only won 5 seats compared to labours 411 and conservatives 121, Indians don't need to get excited nobody takes this party serious in uk

Couple of things here:

1. What was the vote percentage in last general election? Can you post it?

2. This has nothing to do with India. India with everything you blame on them, still allows loudspeaker Azaans, open Namaaz on streets and no ban on Burqa or anything. All of this after muslims didnt wanted to live with Hindus and formed a separate country. You will not find a more tolerant country. So lets leave India aside. This debate is about after numerous countries in Europe like France, Swiss, Denmark etc etc banned Burqa, do you agree with the call from British MPs to ban it in Britain as well? Just respond staying with this topic and dnt deviate with illogical stuff like you mostly do.

 

[ElRaja]

Couple of things here:

1. What was the vote percentage in last general election? Can you post it?

2. This has nothing to do with India. India with everything you blame on them, still allows loudspeaker Azaans, open Namaaz on streets and no ban on Burqa or anything. All of this after muslims didnt wanted to live with Hindus and formed a separate country. You will not find a more tolerant country. So lets leave India aside. This debate is about after numerous countries in Europe like France, Swiss, Denmark etc etc banned Burqa, do you agree with the call from British MPs to ban it in Britain as well? Just respond staying with this topic and dnt deviate with illogical stuff like you mostly do.

reform is the silent storm that is gonna blindside the political mainstream, theyve killed any likelihood of the conservatives coming back to power, and the way the uk voting set up is, a small increase in their vote share will lead them to getting lots more seats. its a reactionary party, and the mainstream ignore it at their own peril.

 

[HalBass9]

I don’t personally support the face niqab, but I’ll never support a government telling people what they can and can’t wear, as long as basic decency is maintained.

If you’re cheering on these bans, chances are your subconscious has already been colonized.

Today it’s the niqab. Tomorrow, it’ll be the hijab. And after that? Whatever doesn’t fit their manufactured “freedom.”

 

[emranabbas]

Couple of things here:

1. What was the vote percentage in last general election? Can you post it?

2. This has nothing to do with India. India with everything you blame on them, still allows loudspeaker Azaans, open Namaaz on streets and no ban on Burqa or anything. All of this after muslims didnt wanted to live with Hindus and formed a separate country. You will not find a more tolerant country. So lets leave India aside. This debate is about after numerous countries in Europe like France, Swiss, Denmark etc etc banned Burqa, do you agree with the call from British MPs to ban it in Britain as well? Just respond staying with this topic and dnt deviate with illogical stuff like you mostly do.

63% muslims voted Labour and not 100 percent sure but 15-25 % voted Conservative there is no chance Labour is going to listen to nobodies likes reform and lose their vote bank

So Indian dream of burqa ban in uk will remain a dream

 

[Rajdeep]

63% muslims voted Labour and not 100 percent sure but 15-25 % voted Conservative there is no chance Labour is going to listen to nobodies likes reform and lose their vote bank

So Indian dream of burqa ban in uk will remain a dream

So basically you are saying Labour is doing appeasement politics for votes. Not that something I wasn't aware but thanks for clarifying.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Burqas seem like a ridiculous garb in the west, and to western mentality. But shift to the east and the frankly disgusting mindset of some of the guys there, and you can see how it makes a lot more sense.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1930704682143649832

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Burqa opponents need to get their argument in order, they shift from women's rights, to integration, culturally we need to see a face, before landing on security as a reason.

In such an environment it's difficult to have the measured debate necessary to understand why Burqa needs to be banned.

 

[RexRex]

Burqas seem like a ridiculous garb in the west, and to western mentality. But shift to the east and the frankly disgusting mindset of some of the guys there, and you can see how it makes a lot more sense.

Which mentality do you have - western or eastern ?

 

[sweep_shot]

This is for English people to decide. Not bhakts.

 

[ElRaja]

Burqa opponents need to get their argument in order, they shift from women's rights, to integration, culturally we need to see a face, before landing on security as a reason.

In such an environment it's difficult to have the measured debate necessary to understand why Burqa needs to be banned.

security is a valid reason, the lal masjid imam ran off in a burqa, he wasnt the first or the last to do that, considering how many places i need to show visual identification as ID i dont know how you expect existing systems of identification to work where someone chooses to cover their face.

there is no logical reason to want to cover your face, the islamic rationale as i understand it, is to minimise drawing attention to yourself or your beauty as a woman, if you live in a culture where full face coverings are not the norm, you do exactly the opposite by wearing a full face veil, you draw attention to yourself.

again i hate the idea of legislating to ban it, but its a senseless custom if you live in a culture where it isnt the norm. i have always been a full burqa opponent, doesnt matter whether ppl shift the reasoning for it, theres just loads of reasons to be against it.

at the end of the day i pbly wouldnt legislate against it, but only on the grounds that its a slippery road down to all sorts of impingements of liberty, but i dont see how anyone can make a logical argument in its favour either. it should be actively discouraged.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Which mentality do you have - western or eastern ?

Western. If I had eastern I would be living in the east.

What about you.

 

[RexRex]

Western. If I had eastern I would be living in the east.

What about you.

Interesting .. I would have never guessed by the vibes.

But yeah .. I've mentioned above that burqa is a ridiculous piece of clothing that should have no place in any society. The security aspect is just one of many reasons.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

security is a valid reason, the lal masjid imam ran off in a burqa, he wasnt the first or the last to do that, considering how many places i need to show visual identification as ID i dont know how you expect existing systems of identification to work where someone chooses to cover their face.

there is no logical reason to want to cover your face, the islamic rationale as i understand it, is to minimise drawing attention to yourself or your beauty as a woman, if you live in a culture where full face coverings are not the norm, you do exactly the opposite by wearing a full face veil, you draw attention to yourself.

again i hate the idea of legislating to ban it, but its a senseless custom if you live in a culture where it isnt the norm. i have always been a full burqa opponent, doesnt matter whether ppl shift the reasoning for it, theres just loads of reasons to be against it.

at the end of the day i pbly wouldnt legislate against it, but only on the grounds that its a slippery road down to all sorts of impingements of liberty, but i dont see how anyone can make a logical argument in its favour either. it should be actively discouraged.

Lal Masjid is one example. There are countless robberies and crimes where people were stocking, scream masks, halloween masks. Burqa and security have rarely caused any issues. It just seems like a deliberate attempt to equate the garment to something sinister and dangerous.

I agree it's senseless and a weird way for someone to choose to dress, but I can't think of any arguments that justify banning it. You can make it mandatory to uncover face at checkpoints or in shopping centres or when driving etc and that will take away any security fears without banning it outright.

 

[Rajdeep]

Since brother @DeadlyVenom loves GB news, this is an interesting discussion

 

[ElRaja]

Lal Masjid is one example. There are countless robberies and crimes where people were stocking, scream masks, halloween masks. Burqa and security have rarely caused any issues. It just seems like a deliberate attempt to equate the garment to something sinister and dangerous.

I agree it's senseless and a weird way for someone to choose to dress, but I can't think of any arguments that justify banning it. You can make it mandatory to uncover face at checkpoints or in shopping centres or when driving etc and that will take away any security fears without banning it outright.

yes, but u can be asked to remove ur balaclava or stocking in any place at the owners request, police can demand ppl to remove niqabs, but if they were treated the same way as ballys and civilians who owns shops or other places open to the public started demanding women remove their niqabs we know how that would end up.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

yes, but u can be asked to remove ur balaclava or stocking in any place at the owners request, police can demand ppl to remove niqabs, but if they were treated the same way as ballys and civilians who owns shops or other places open to the public started demanding women remove their niqabs we know how that would end up.

There's like a few hundred women who wear these things. Most of them won't go to the shops or places that demand them to remove it. Its a non issue that is being politicised heavily.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Since brother @DeadlyVenom loves GB news, this is an interesting discussion

Someone should put a Burqa on Farage. It would make it easier to listen to him

 

[ElRaja]

There's like a few hundred women who wear these things. Most of them won't go to the shops or places that demand them to remove it. Its a non issue that is being politicised heavily.

fair point. i just think there should be a smarter way this custom should be eradicated. it invites a lot of needless but justified criticism towards British Pakistanis.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

fair point. i just think there should be a smarter way this custom should be eradicated. it invites a lot of needless but justified criticism towards British Pakistanis.

British Pakistanis don't wear this as much, it's more the Arab/Afghan women who tend to go full burqa. If people want to criticise British Pakistanis they will find some reason regardless. Personally I feel the campaign against burqa is more cultural than security - which I can understand to be honest - the security angle is just more presentable.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Interesting .. I would have never guessed by the vibes.

But yeah .. I've mentioned above that burqa is a ridiculous piece of clothing that should have no place in any society. The security aspect is just one of many reasons.

It's why I am in a position to call to account many Indian criticisms of Pakistanis which are often just rehashed versions of western arguments. Criticism can be justified, but if it's the pot calling the kettle black it is apparent to someone who has first hand experience of western culture.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

fair point. i just think there should be a smarter way this custom should be eradicated. it invites a lot of needless but justified criticism towards British Pakistanis.

They'll find another reason to criticise.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Donald was right

 

[Farhan The Man]

Donald was right

He always is.

He doesn't want 'wah' on women's faces.

Hiding your face is akin to reneging on your own identity.

 

[Rajdeep]

He always is.

He doesn't want 'wah' on women's faces.

Hiding your face is akin to reneging on your own identity.

Yes you are right....hiding faces must be banned.

 

[KingKhanWC]

After Covid , attempting to stop anyone from covering their mouth will not work. Ban it, the women will use a NHS mask or any mask.

Ironically the right clowns were demanding all of a womans face should be seen, then their grandmas and wifes were walking around with it covered.