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Slump deepens for England in ODIs: Crisis or just a rough patch?

FearlessRoar

FearlessRoar

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Since Eoin Morgan retired in June 2022, England has played 44 ODIs, winning just 16 and losing 25. Their win/loss ratio stands at 0.64, the second-worst among all 12 Test-playing nations, ahead of only Ireland.

With this latest series defeat against India, England has now lost four consecutive ODI series, adding to their woes after a disastrous ICC ODI World Cup 2023 campaign.

Most defeats in ODIs since the start of the ICC ODI World Cup 2023

England - 15 in 22 games
Bangladesh - 15 in 21 games
Netherlands - 12 in 21 games
Sri Lanka - 12 in 30 games
 
Most defeats for a team in ODIs after scoring 300+ (Matches):

28 - England (99)
27 - India (136)
23 - West Indies (62)
19 - Sri Lanka (87)
 
That is what happens when you focus more on BazBall rather than identifying technical flaws. Simply smashing everything won’t help you improve your game.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
That is what happens when you focus more on BazBall rather than identifying technical flaws. Simply smashing everything won’t help you improve your game.
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Bazball term is used for Tests. Not other formats. You have to play aggressively anyway in other formats. It is the weakness against spin. On flat pitches they struggle against spin. There is no excuse. Afghanistan exposed them in 2023 world cup on a relatively flat Delhi wicket. Here in India they played on true wickets both in Test series and in the ongoing LOI series. They struggled against spin even in this series. Bazball works on flat pitches against average attacks.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Bazball term is used for Tests. Not other formats. You have to play aggressively anyway in other formats. It is the weakness against spin. On flat pitches they struggle against spin. There is no excuse. Afghanistan exposed them in 2023 world cup on a relatively flat Delhi wicket. Here in India they played on true wickets both in Test series and in the ongoing LOI series. They struggled against spin even in this series. Bazball works on flat pitches against average attacks.
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Basically they are fast bowling bully cant play spin doesn't matter what the pitch is they just cant play spin simple.
 
FearlessRoar said:
Since Eoin Morgan retired in June 2022, England has played 44 ODIs, winning just 16 and losing 25. Their win/loss ratio stands at 0.64, the second-worst among all 12 Test-playing nations, ahead of only Ireland.

With this latest series defeat against India, England has now lost four consecutive ODI series, adding to their woes after a disastrous ICC ODI World Cup 2023 campaign.

Most defeats in ODIs since the start of the ICC ODI World Cup 2023

England - 15 in 22 games
Bangladesh - 15 in 21 games
Netherlands - 12 in 21 games
Sri Lanka - 12 in 30 games
Click to expand...
It's not a bad patch, Their 2019 team was genuinely stronger.

1) Roy (Prime form was more destructive then salt and an overall better batsmen then salt)

2) Bairstow (Only improvement as Duckett is a better batsmen then Bairstow)

3) Root (2019 had more form)

4) Morgan (Morgan and root were the only genuine players of spin, Brooks can't play spin for the life of him, He's only better against pace then Morgan, He's a sitting duck vs spin)

5) Stokes (Butler at 6 was better since he could go bang bang and didn't come early, Now with Stokes gone, Butler needs to move up)

6) Butler (Gun no 6, compared to Liam Livingstone)

7) Moeen Ali (Hige huge loss to England as bethell ain't it)

8) Liam Plunkett (Very underrated gem for Eng)

9) Adults Rashid (quality)

10-11) Archer and wood

2025 team is a mess
 
mominsaigol said:
It's not a bad patch, Their 2019 team was genuinely stronger.

1) Roy (Prime form was more destructive then salt and an overall better batsmen then salt)

2) Bairstow (Only improvement as Duckett is a better batsmen then Bairstow)

3) Root (2019 had more form)

4) Morgan (Morgan and root were the only genuine players of spin, Brooks can't play spin for the life of him, He's only better against pace then Morgan, He's a sitting duck vs spin)

5) Stokes (Butler at 6 was better since he could go bang bang and didn't come early, Now with Stokes gone, Butler needs to move up)

6) Butler (Gun no 6, compared to Liam Livingstone)

7) Moeen Ali (Hige huge loss to England as bethell ain't it)

8) Liam Plunkett (Very underrated gem for Eng)

9) Adults Rashid (quality)

10-11) Archer and wood

2025 team is a mess
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Moeen was poor and dropped . You are missing Woakes in that lineup. Plunkett came in for Moeen.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Moeen was poor and dropped . You are missing Woakes in that lineup. Plunkett came in for Moeen.
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Oh yeah my bad. But yes, 2019 team was much superior.

2025 team is a joke. India is now looking like they'll win CT. Their alot stronger then people thought and Aus, Eng, SA aren't threats.

Their biggest threat is NZ. If NZ or India don't win it then I'll be surprised.

Anyway idc anymore. WTC and Ashes and that's it.
 
England's bowling unit is not a bad unit on paper. But their tactic, LOI skills, strategies are poor. The same bowling unit can do better under with better tactic, strategy, plans. Hazlewood even at speed of 132 kph has been a gun LOI bowler. These guys are blessed with 154 kph, 145 kph bowlers. But they just don't have strategies to use them effectively.
 
They are playing against the best limited overs team ie India. Watch this same English team against Pakistan and look world class.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
England's bowling unit is not a bad unit on paper. But their tactic, LOI skills, strategies are poor. The same bowling unit can do better under with better tactic, strategy, plans. Hazlewood even at speed of 132 kph has been a gun LOI bowler. These guys are blessed with 154 kph, 145 kph bowlers. But they just don't have strategies to use them effectively.
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Bro thats what i am saying teams like nz aus with lesser quality than england does well.
 
England's ODI cricket is definitely in a crisis. Their performances since 2021 have been quite poor, but they have especially taken a nosedive since the 2023 World Cup.
 
Savak said:
They are playing against the best limited overs team ie India. Watch this same English team against Pakistan and look world class.
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Just like how sa got whitewashed vs pak in odis its easy to put pakistan down and downplay their achievements.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
England's ODI cricket is definitely in a crisis. Their performances since 2021 have been quite poor, but they have especially taken a nosedive since the 2023 World Cup.
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Bro is it because england cant play spin we have seen the moment spin comes they throw their wickets against fast bowling they look different beast.
 
Aqib_mustafa said:
Bro is it because england cant play spin we have seen the moment spin comes they throw their wickets against fast bowling they look different beast.
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They have a definite weakness against spin. It was exposed on this tour and in the World Cup
 
Aqib_mustafa said:
Just like how sa got whitewashed vs pak in odis its easy to put pakistan down and downplay their achievements.
Click to expand...

The secret behind the wins in Australia and South Africa was Pakistans bowling clicking and restricting the opposition to par totals. If our bowling doesn't click and if we are forced to chase 300 plus, our team will be in trouble. Our pacers will not get good bowling conditions in Pakistan and we haven't selected spinners to take advantage of the spin on offer in the opening and middle overs.
 
Savak said:
The secret behind the wins in Australia and South Africa was Pakistans bowling clicking and restricting the opposition to par totals. If our bowling doesn't click and if we are forced to chase 300 plus, our team will be in trouble. Our pacers will not get good bowling conditions in Pakistan and we haven't selected spinners to take advantage of the spin on offer in the opening and middle overs.
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So aqib should just be brave and select sufiyan muqeem pak will get really far in champions trophy if they select him.
 
Aqib_mustafa said:
So aqib should just be brave and select sufiyan muqeem pak will get really far in champions trophy if they select him.
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Sajid and Nauman should have been considered as well. If these guys can excel in test cricket, why can't they do the same in ODI Cricket where they can bat and field as well.
 
Savak said:
Sajid and Nauman should have been considered as well. If these guys can excel in test cricket, why can't they do the same in ODI Cricket where they can bat and field as well.
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What was the need of selecting hasnain that guy is a spray gun sajid or noman are 100 times better than him
 
Aqib_mustafa said:
Bro thats what i am saying teams like nz aus with lesser quality than england does well.
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They tried to bully players with pace. On red soil it is not a bad strategy.But you cannot be predictable. Same pace will become your worst enemy.
 
Aqib_mustafa said:
So they are good against pace bowling how come they struggle vs australia who mainly play fast bowlers?
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When you are a poor team its less about how good or bad you are against pace and spin, and more about how you do in the key moments of the game. England have been quite poor in those key moments for a long time now.
 
Savak said:
Sajid and Nauman should have been considered as well. If these guys can excel in test cricket, why can't they do the same in ODI Cricket where they can bat and field as well.
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How about because Sajid Khan has a List A bowling average of 37.88, which suggests he is anything but good in 50 over cricket? Or how about because the pitches in ODI cricket don't start offering turn from ball one and are actually quite flat? Let's go with - it's absolutely dumb to select someone for one format based on their performance in another format.
 
In cricket, the captain matters. Morgan turned the ODI team around.

Stokes took a team that was losing 14 out of 15 matches and immediately made them win most matches.

England haven’t learned that the best player doesn’t make a good captain. Butler is a shocking leader, almost as bad as Root. Moeen was a far better captain but couldn’t keep his place. I’m not sure who the next great leader within this English group is. Perhaps Duckett who’s a plucky resourceful player.
 
Since 2023, Mark Wood averages 110 and has an economy of 5.8 in the middle overs of ODIs.

Need to get rid of rubbish bowlers like him to have any chance. Not much new ball skill either.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Since 2023, Mark Wood averages 110 and has an economy of 5.8 in the middle overs of ODIs.

Need to get rid of rubbish bowlers like him to have any chance. Not much new ball skill either.
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Mark wood becomes a tiger only against Bangla tigers. Against better sides he sucks
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Mark wood becomes a tiger only against Bangla tigers. Against better sides he sucks
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He's a luxury in a quality attack.

When you have peak Archer who could bowl anywhere, peak Woakes who was the best PP bowler and Plunkett and Rashid to control the middle overs, you can afford him I suppose.

Can't select him when the entire team is struggling.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
He's a luxury in a quality attack.

When you have peak Archer who could bowl anywhere, peak Woakes who was the best PP bowler and Plunkett and Rashid to control the middle overs, you can afford him I suppose.

Can't select him when the entire team is struggling.
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David WIlley is not that bad. He can bat too. His swing can be handy against most teams. I know Sam Curran fell of the radar due to expensive spells. But he can bat a bit. Anyway they are leaking runs. THey might as well go with all rounders and go after bowling from over no.1 to 50
 
jnaveen1980 said:
David WIlley is not that bad. He can bat too. His swing can be handy against most teams. I know Sam Curran fell of the radar due to expensive spells. But he can bat a bit. Anyway they are leaking runs. THey might as well go with all rounders and go after bowling from over no.1 to 50
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Willey is better with the new ball than Mark Wood for sure.
 
There approach is not correct. They play OD like 20 20 , which means they often fail to bat full 50 overs.
They lack hitters against conventional spinners , and are restricted when facing them.
The bowling is one dimensional , and fail to have Plan B.
 
It is a bit of a crisis now. Their LOI performance has gone down.

It is probably because many of their established guys have retired or are close to retirements. New guys aren't as good.
 
They have good players but this team is in transition period plus they needs to Stop playing brainless cricket.

You can't Play ODI cricket with one stretegy ( Smashed evrything) . They needs to build the partnership through rotation of strikes instead blind slogging .
:kp
 
Jason Roy was working well at the top. This Salt is a hack. Bring back Hales and Roy.
 
One dimensional express pace bowling is not working out for them. Indian batsmen had nothing to worry about change of pace or a surprise Yorker. Very predictable bowling.
May be they will be effective against teams that struggle against genuine quick bowling. It did not work against India.
 
They have been playing without any gameplan. Team looks directionless. Buttler is not the captain Morgan was. Root isn't the same Root. Roy was giving England quick starts 8/10 times.
 
These goras have a wining mentality. They are not like other subcontinental teams who think that they are not capable enough to win. The foreign teams work hard and this is just a rough patch for them IMO.
 
BouncerGuy said:
These goras have a wining mentality. They are not like other subcontinental teams who think that they are not capable enough to win. The foreign teams work hard and this is just a rough patch for them IMO.
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England have barely won anything in sport.
 
Biggest victories for India against England in ODIs

158 runs, Rajkot, 2008
142 runs, Ahmedabad, 2025
133 runs, Cardiff, 2014
127 runs, Kochi, 2013
126 runs, Hyderabad, 2011
 
England vs spin on this tour of India (2025)

T20Is: 29 wkts | Avg 14 | SR 125
ODIs: 13 wkts | Avg 25.6 | SR 78

No wonder England won just 1 out of the 8 games
 
Devadwal said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1889739857775435900

Heartbreaking for England fans? Maybe it's time to demand more from your players than just turning up. This is cricket, not a vacation. Get over it, or get better.

:kp
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To be fair. Beating India in India is not easy. ONly Australia has the smartness to do that. NZ close second. Full strength SA was thrashed by India C team in a do or die series for SA as that series outcome determined whether SA should play qualifier or not.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
To be fair. Beating India in India is not easy. ONly Australia has the smartness to do that. NZ close second. Full strength SA was thrashed by India C team in a do or die series for SA as that series outcome determined whether SA should play qualifier or not.
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If you want to beat India in India , you have to out bat India . You need good batters of spin bowling in middle order , those who can get boundaries in there.
 
Bilaterals may be put down by fans for argument sake. But fans watch your team play to see them win matches Not lose persistently. Winning a cup in 2019 won't absolve them of all failures that follow it. Fans will still be disappointed if you lose a bilateral match. Because they invest time in watching it. So losing it will annoy the fans. That is what you see from KP. Pure anger from a fan.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
PUnches thrown.

"It seems the journos are in cahoots with what we’re trying to be brainwashed into believing! You won’t fool the fan with such!" - KP

Is it possible to brainwash fans? @Rana
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Very easy in the sub continent. Not really outside of it. English fans are quite realistic but are not very critical. They wont lose sleep over it.
 
Thus is a good discussion. As I mentioned aggressions is baked into ODIs as it is. All teams play that way anyway.
 
I think they are going through a mini crisis and would need some wins to get back on the winning track
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Their game against spin has made them look worse than they are.
Click to expand...

England are terrible away from home. Only ODI series they have won away from home in 6 years was in Bangladesh .
They are poor against spin in particular , no doubt . But they are an average ODI team even on pitches that don't spin
 
FearlessRoar said:
Kevin Pietersen slams UK journalist for backing England

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889884072132182150
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KP's problem seems to be that they were playing golf instead of training. I doubt even a couple of extra training sessions could have averted this drubbing. When you make bad decisions on the pitch, you can't attribute them to lack of training. England were in good positions in a couple of matches but simply played some poor cricket and ended up losing both matches.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
England are terrible away from home. Only ODI series they have won away from home in 6 years was in Bangladesh .
They are poor against spin in particular , no doubt . But they are an average ODI team even on pitches that don't spin
Click to expand...

They've been awful apart from a few years around 2019.

Even 2019 WC and 2022 they got a lot of luck.
 
Former England cricketer Mark Butcher, while speaking on a podcast:

"The first thing that sprung to my mind during the first two ODIs was just how naive most of our cricket is in the 50-over format...I thought 'why might that be?'. It's because we don't play any. There is a world of difference in terms of the tempo that the game needs to continuously be played at. I don't mean that the tempo is a rigid graph that only goes up, the tempo needs to fluctuate in 50-over cricket in a way that it doesn't need to in 20-over cricket. Having that skill and nous and game awareness to know when to put the foot down and when to ease off a little but, when to sit in and when to go hard, is something that only comes with playing lots of it."

"Being a very talented boy and somebody who has the hunger and desire to be the very best, he will be better for the experience of flogging in India. But if you're talking about winning a Champions Trophy in a couple of weeks' time, it's not likely, is it? That our team and the make-up of it and the experience of it is going to have the skill and the nous and the know-how to win what is a very difficult form of cricket, 50-over cricket. It requires more than just putting your foot to the floor and keeping it there."
 
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