South Africa ODI problems ahead of the World Cup 2019

[Ab Fan]

South Africa are currently going through one of the worst phase they are having in ODI cricket.

With de Villiers retired, the batting is in worry while the bowling doesn't look as great as it is in tests.

SA just got hammered last year vs India and even Pakistan looked in control of first ODI of the series. Worst part is these results coming in their home conditions.

With de Kock's return, it will improve but what inclusions and exclusions you think will make this team a solid XI going ahead for World Cup?

I think maybe this XI can bring some good results for SA: -

de kock
Amla
Faf
Markram
Klaseen
Miller
Morris
Phehlukwayo
Rabada
Steyn
Tahir

Discuss!

 

[Suleiman]

Match was the epitome of the whole “I hope Amla scores a hundred but Pakistan win” meme

 

[Arsalan Pro]

South Africa are currently going through one of the worst phase they are having in ODI cricket.

With de Villiers retired, the batting is in worry while the bowling doesn't look as great as it is in tests.

SA just got hammered last year vs India and even Pakistan looked in control of first ODI of the series. Worst part is these results coming in their home conditions.

With de Kock's return, it will improve but what inclusions and exclusions you think will make this team a solid XI going ahead for World Cup?

I think maybe this XI can bring some good results for SA: -

de kock
Amla
Faf
Markram
Klaseen
Miller
Morris
Phehlukwayo
Rabada
Steyn
Tahir

Discuss!

Duminy is a vital member who can also bowl as the sixth bowler keeping batsmen in check.

Why wouldn't you play Lungi Ngidi? He seems to be a good bowler.

My Team would be:

Quinton De Kock
Aiden Markram
Hashim Amla
Faf Du Plessis
JP Duminy
David Miller
Chris Morris
Kagiso Rabada
Dale Steyn
Imran Tahir
Lungi Ngidi

 

[Rana]

Underestimated Pakistan today!

Losing the first ODI of a series will come back to haunt them. Pakistan need one more win in the next two/three matches and they are set to play for a monumental series win in the final ODI

 

[Ab Fan]

Duminy is a vital member who can also bowl as the sixth bowler keeping batsmen in check.

Why wouldn't you play Lungi Ngidi? He seems to be a good bowler.

My Team would be:

Quinton De Kock
Aiden Markram
Hashim Amla
Faf Du Plessis
JP Duminy
David Miller
Chris Morris
Kagiso Rabada
Dale Steyn
Imran Tahir
Lungi Ngidi

Yes, missed Lungi. So, he will obviously play and strengthen the bowling. But just feel SA bowling is just not the same as it is in tests.

 

[Chokli]

still can't believe ab de villiers screwed his own team and country by retiring a year before, such a selfish and horrible thing to do.

Duminy is a vital member who can also bowl as the sixth bowler keeping batsmen in check.

Why wouldn't you play Lungi Ngidi? He seems to be a good bowler.

My Team would be:

Quinton De Kock
Aiden Markram
Hashim Amla
Faf Du Plessis
JP Duminy
David Miller
Chris Morris
Kagiso Rabada
Dale Steyn
Imran Tahir
Lungi Ngidi

this looks like the perfect team.

 

[AFM]

Duminy is a vital member who can also bowl as the sixth bowler keeping batsmen in check.

Why wouldn't you play Lungi Ngidi? He seems to be a good bowler.

My Team would be:

Quinton De Kock
Aiden Markram
Hashim Amla
Faf Du Plessis
JP Duminy
David Miller
Chris Morris
Kagiso Rabada
Dale Steyn
Imran Tahir
Lungi Ngidi

I would play another batsman in place of Chris Morris. He doesn't offer that much as either a batsman or bowler.

Duminy can bowl 5-6 overs, and the other batsmen can chip in the middle for the 5 extra overs left.

 

[The Viper]

Duminy is a vital member who can also bowl as the sixth bowler keeping batsmen in check.

Why wouldn't you play Lungi Ngidi? He seems to be a good bowler.

My Team would be:

Quinton De Kock
Aiden Markram
Hashim Amla
Faf Du Plessis
JP Duminy
David Miller
Chris Morris
Kagiso Rabada
Dale Steyn
Imran Tahir
Lungi Ngidi

I would pick this team. Morris is probably the best allrounder they have. Not sure about his batting these days but can be destructive.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

I would play another batsman in place of Chris Morris. He doesn't offer that much as either a batsman or bowler.

Duminy can bowl 5-6 overs, and the other batsmen can chip in the middle for the 5 extra overs left.

If opposition knows that Duminy is the 5th bowler, he will be taken to the cleaners.

5th bowler has always been an issue for South Africa ever since Kallis retired, I would like them to have an all rounder at this position and Morris can be the man.

 

[BDfanforever]

I like RSA, but truth be told they are the most overrated team out there. I expect all top teams Eng, India, NZ, Aus, plus one of PAK/BD/AFG to beat RSA in WC. They are neither contender for SF spot and never mind winning the cup.

They will continue to dominate in tests at least in South Africa, but in Asia even SRL will decimate them. In ODIs, once Amla and Tahir goes they will continue to struggle. Among top teams they have the worst limited over achievements.

 

[Syed1]

You know things are bad when you are losing to Pak of all teams, that too at home

 

[Savak]

The South African team just does not have the depth or talent.

 

[gazza619]

I dont think they have an issue. De kock and Steyn were resting and their team tank thought 260-270 would be enough for Pakistan. Hence they lost,

Basically they understimated Pakistan.

 

[Deewana]

South africa lost the 2015 world cup because they didn't have an all rounder ..dumminy abd were the fifth bowler in that semi final vs nz and that costed them big time..4 years latter they still haven't found one..guys like phelumwayo shouldnt really be playing for sa..

 

[Bewal Express]

South African doesn't look right. After today's innings, Hash needs to retire( tonight), the lower order is a mess with a long tail which isn't​ very good.

De Kock
Hendricks
Markram
Du Plessis
Miller/Duminy
Phlekwayo
Klassen (WK)
Rabada
Olivier
Ngidi/Steyn/Norte
Tahir

 

[Bilal7]

South Africa should do well at the WC. I actually back them to make the finals, alongside Pakistan.

You know things are bad when you are losing to Pak of all teams, that too at home

Except that Pak is a very good ODI team.

 

[Syed1]

South Africa should do well at the WC. I actually back them to make the finals, alongside Pakistan.



Except that Pak is a very good ODI team.

Must be a wonderful day for you

 

[Bilal7]

Must be a wonderful day for you

I missed the match, unfortunately.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Without AB and Morkel (Their best ODI bowler for a long time) they have no chance at the World Cup. Eve with those two they were a beatable side. Id go with

De Kock
Markram
Amla
Faf
Miller
Klaasen
Pretorius
Rabada
Steyn
Shamsi/Tahir
Ngidi

But we all know this is not gonna happen

 

[soso_killer]

Lol

South Africa should do well at the WC. I actually back them to make the finals, alongside Pakistan.



Except that Pak is a very good ODI team.

 

[Farhan93]

They need to take a bold decision and go with two wrist spinners in the worldcup in playing 11. Yes they have never done that before in their history but the time has changed and they have three very good spinners available why not use them?
Go with Tabraiz Shamshi and Imran tahir with K.Maharaj as a back up.Modern day flat ODI pitches as well as seamless Kookaburra balls are nightmare for pacers like Rabada, Oliver. They also need to find one express fast bowler who's a genuine wicket taker like NZ have found Lockie Fergueson. Otherwise SA will enter in the wc with the weakest ever ODI squad in their history. Even Afghanistan and WI will topple them.

Amla is playing like Babar Azam his selfish knocks on flat tracks are useless. Their only threat to other team is David Miller.

 

[shah_1]

They are not strong enough

Won't qualify for Semis

 

[a_tahir]

I dont think they have an issue. De kock and Steyn were resting and their team tank thought 260-270 would be enough for Pakistan. Hence they lost,

Basically they understimated Pakistan.

Someone just doesn't intentionally make 260 after 30 overs they are one down against any team either Zimbabawe or Pakistan.
You try to make the highest total u possibly could.

 

[a_tahir]

still can't believe ab de villiers screwed his own team and country by retiring a year before, such a selfish and horrible thing to do.



this looks like the perfect team.

If he had to retire prematurely then he could have just retired after the world cup.
He just left a hole in the team which SA is finding hard to fill

 

[Hasan123]

SA will be prepared for the WC. Don't think It will be lack of talent that will cost them at WC. Will more than likely be a mental issue which continues to plauge them at ICC tournaments.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

South Africa just isn't as good as it used to be.

de Villiers is gone. Steyn, Tahir, Amla are all on their last legs. Du Plessis himself isn't far from retirement. Markram, Hendricks, Klassen and the all-rounders (Mulder, Phehlukwayo, Pretorius) haven't nearly done enough to establish themselves which leaves behind de Kock, Miller, Duminy (currently injured), Rabada and Ngidi.

Still a pretty good side but not the same ODI giants they were at the last WC.

 

[Abdullah]

We should be looking to put the foot on the throat here and win this series comfortably. So they know where they stand when they face us in the world cup. This isn't the same team as it used to be a are heavily reliant on De cock.

 

[Manager101]

Why AB De Viliers retired soo early ?

 

[Rahul1]

Except that Pak is a very good ODI team.

I knew your standards are low but i didn't know they are this low.

 

[Bilal7]

They have a fantastic bowling attack: Rabada, Steyn, Olivier, Ngidi, Tahir and a couple of all-rounders. Good depth and a lot of quality.

 

[MMHS]

Replacing a player like AdV within a year is impossible, even a decade is not enough, so obviously they'll miss him. Having said that, he has played for them in 3 WCs and 4(?) CTs with better squad(s) and at his prime - result is a SF loss at most

I think, SAF is trying to find a way for life after AdV, and they are experimenting the combination. Recently, they have beaten AUS, in AUS 2-1, and that's exactly the margin between IND-AUS as well (& AUS did play Strac, Cummins, Hazlewood in all 3 games, Coulter-Nile in one; while SAF did rested Amla and Morne already retired by then), therefore don't think situation is that bad. Their core strength (fast bowling) is still intact, probably a bit stronger considering the raise of Olivier and they'll bring couple of new players as well; Chris Morris isn't retired yet either.

As of now, I think their WC squad will be within these players, with may be 1-2 changes/surprise max.

1. Kock
2. Markram/Hendricks
3. Amla
4. Faf
5. Miller
6. Klaasen
7. Morris/Pretorius/Andile
8. Morris/Pretorius/Andile
9. Rabada
10. Styen
11. Tahir
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For bowling back-up, they are well covered with Olivier, Shamshi, Mahraj (His List A numbers are impressive), Paterson. Also, this year in domestic tournament, couple of pace bowling all-rounders have done well - Gareth Dukes & Marcello Peidt. Their domestic numbers are great and they are at right age (mid 20s) with enough domestic experience.

Batting is their weaker zone, but still that starting XI is good enough for a SF spot. For batting back-ups - Dussen debuted well, they can try Elgar as well (his List A stats are great). Among surprise picks, Leus du Plooy, Luke Schlemmer, Rubin Herman has great numbers and they are in form (among top players in recent domestics).

Don't expect new faces to make the WC yet, but SAF still has 9 (I think few more) ODIs left and some of these players will be introduced - 1/2 might make it.

WC isn't won only by the best teams and this year the format is such that the side that can gradually improves (carries momentum) and keeps fitness till end will do better. SAF is among the fittest teams, they have a very good leader to keep squad in focus & happy - it's more likely that they'll make the SF than not. Last 1992 WC was played with similar format and they did well - got stronger with the tournament. They are probably the dark horse of this tournament, as probably everyone has leveled them as Choker.

 

[Farhan93]

I don't know why People expecting 35 year old Steyn to do wonders for them with the white ball.
White ball doesn't swing, seam or even reverse swing anymore to help him. With pace only, he can't do much he will probably get injured instead and will retire early from tests too if SA decide to force him in ODIs.

 

[yuvi]

They have recently beaten Aus in Aus so they are not bad. But with a lot of new players their dependence on senior players like Steyn, Dekock very high. Can loose matches even against weaker teams if key players are rested/ injured.

 

[Hasan123]

Replacing a player like AdV within a year is impossible, even a decade is not enough, so obviously they'll miss him. Having said that, he has played for them in 3 WCs and 4(?) CTs with better squad(s) and at his prime - result is a SF loss at most

I think, SAF is trying to find a way for life after AdV, and they are experimenting the combination. Recently, they have beaten AUS, in AUS 2-1, and that's exactly the margin between IND-AUS as well (& AUS did play Strac, Cummins, Hazlewood in all 3 games, Coulter-Nile in one; while SAF did rested Amla and Morne already retired by then), therefore don't think situation is that bad. Their core strength (fast bowling) is still intact, probably a bit stronger considering the raise of Olivier and they'll bring couple of new players as well; Chris Morris isn't retired yet either.

As of now, I think their WC squad will be within these players, with may be 1-2 changes/surprise max.

1. Kock
2. Markram/Hendricks
3. Amla
4. Faf
5. Miller
6. Klaasen
7. Morris/Pretorius/Andile
8. Morris/Pretorius/Andile
9. Rabada
10. Styen
11. Tahir
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For bowling back-up, they are well covered with Olivier, Shamshi, Mahraj (His List A numbers are impressive), Paterson. Also, this year in domestic tournament, couple of pace bowling all-rounders have done well - Gareth Dukes & Marcello Peidt. Their domestic numbers are great and they are at right age (mid 20s) with enough domestic experience.

Batting is their weaker zone, but still that starting XI is good enough for a SF spot. For batting back-ups - Dussen debuted well, they can try Elgar as well (his List A stats are great). Among surprise picks, Leus du Plooy, Luke Schlemmer, Rubin Herman has great numbers and they are in form (among top players in recent domestics).

Don't expect new faces to make the WC yet, but SAF still has 9 (I think few more) ODIs left and some of these players will be introduced - 1/2 might make it.

WC isn't won only by the best teams and this year the format is such that the side that can gradually improves (carries momentum) and keeps fitness till end will do better. SAF is among the fittest teams, they have a very good leader to keep squad in focus & happy - it's more likely that they'll make the SF than not. Last 1992 WC was played with similar format and they did well - got stronger with the tournament. They are probably the dark horse of this tournament, as probably everyone has leveled them as Choker.

Why did you leave Dumminy out ?

I agree with rest of your analysis. I think they will be a surprise package but don't think they will win the tournament but that won't be due to a lack of talent.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I will be shocked if SAF qualified for Semis honestly. Even current Bangladesh would beat them in a series probably. I love ABD but he did the most selfish thing possible.

I am also disappointed by QDK, he was supposed to be on par with Kohli with he debuted. I remember so much hype for the guy, he really failed to keep it up.

 

[MMHS]

Why did you leave Dumminy out ?

I agree with rest of your analysis. I think they will be a surprise package but don't think they will win the tournament but that won't be due to a lack of talent.

I missed him to be honest. Yes, he adds experience to the middle order, might bowl a bit as well, which gives them off-spin option to support Tahir. But, not sure where to start him, unless they open with Amla and play JP at 3/4. His record is best at 4, so Faf might come up to 3 and play JP at 4. Faf's stats at 3 are exceptional or they might drop Klaasen and slot Faf, Millr at 5/6, but now I think, Klaasan deserves a spot in playing XI.

 

[Hasan123]

I missed him to be honest. Yes, he adds experience to the middle order, might bowl a bit as well, which gives them off-spin option to support Tahir. But, not sure where to start him, unless they open with Amla and play JP at 3/4. His record is best at 4, so Faf might come up to 3 and play JP at 4. Faf's stats at 3 are exceptional or they might drop Klaasen and slot Faf, Millr at 5/6, but now I think, Klaasan deserves a spot in playing XI.

I think he will bat 5.

De Kock
Amla
Markham
Faf
JP
Miller
Morris
All rounder
Rabada
Steyn/Ngidi
Tahir

That's what I think they will go for.

 

[MMHS]

I think he will bat 5.

De Kock
Amla
Markham
Faf
JP
Miller
Morris
All rounder
Rabada
Steyn/Ngidi
Tahir

That's what I think they will go for.

N'gidi's List A numbers are poor compared to average SAF's domestic standard, and he doesn't look to be an ODI bowler. Might be in squad for quota requirement, but not likely to start - they have better options for UK. That batting looks good, though Markram's ODI stats are surprisingly poor.

 

[Chokli]

If he had to retire prematurely then he could have just retired after the world cup.
He just left a hole in the team which SA is finding hard to fill

exactly, it's pathetic

 

[Hasan123]

N'gidi's List A numbers are poor compared to average SAF's domestic standard, and he doesn't look to be an ODI bowler. Might be in squad for quota requirement, but not likely to start - they have better options for UK. That batting looks good, though Markram's ODI stats are surprisingly poor.

Ngidi has 26 wickets in 13 games in ODIs. Wouldn't read too much into his list A numbers. I think with a new ball in English conditions, he could be good dust.

Markham is still young. I would play him. He will come good eventually. Faf will also be retiring after WC . Need to stick with him as he is certain to be the next captain.

Also in my line up ,Miller can be promoted when SA need to accelerate. Same with Morris.

SA could make the semis imo.

 

[TeymurBlake]

AB retiring has definitely hurt SA. There trying to find a replacement for him but that's going to be very hard. Maybe they should try De Kock in the middle with Amla and Markham open.

 

[Chokli]

AB retiring has definitely hurt SA. There trying to find a replacement for him but that's going to be very hard. Maybe they should try De Kock in the middle with Amla and Markham open.

nah i feel de kock has to open, you need to give him the most amount of batting time

1.amla
2.de kock
3.du plessis
4.markham
5.jp duminy
6.david miller
7.an all rounder
8.steyn
9.rabada
10.nigdi
11.tahir

it's still a really good team

more or less the same side that chased down 372 versus australia in 2016

 

[The Viper]

Like others have said, SAF should experiment with spinners. Try out Maharaj or Shamsi for a few games. Shamsi stats are not great at the moment but only 11 ODI's.