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South Africa vs India | 2nd Test | Centurion | Jan 13-17, 2018 | Pre-Match Thread

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If South Africa keep picking 6 Whites for all seven India and Australia Tests, they may well get to December and find that they can only meet the annual quota by only picking 3 or 4 Whites for the Pakistan Tests. And Mickey Arthur will know that very well!

It’s a serious problem. Let’s be frank: without the quota, Amla and Maharaj would not be in the team in 2018.

You mean they don't warrant a place in the national side?
 
Pakistan aren't going to benefit from nothing just like the Australians didn't benefit when they were beaten black and blue by a Protea side that's keeping in line with the government's radical socio economic transformation. No amount of complaining from clueless individuals is going to change that.

Do you think Pakistan's bowling attack will cause you guys problems or no? It's most likely going to be Amir, Junaid, Hassan, Shah and hopefully, a pace bowling all-rounder.

Our batting will be rolled over unless Babar and Haris become established test players by the end of the year and the other bats raise their game.
 
Do you think Pakistan's bowling attack will cause you guys problems or no? It's most likely going to be Amir, Junaid, Hassan, Shah and hopefully, a pace bowling all-rounder.

Our batting will be rolled over unless Babar and Haris become established test players by the end of the year and the other bats raise their game.

Pakistan did well bowling wise against a stronger team than this one when they had Junaid Khan, Umar Gul, hafeez, and tanvir, ajmal.
of course our batting was rubbish at centurion
we competed and lost a close match in cape town
and lost hope by the third match.
I think Pakistan has the bowling....to keep south africa on their toes this time as well. but they need to spend this year settling on their batting line up. We are doomed if we open with shan masood and ahmed shehzad there.
 
Since Australia series Amla averages 32 minus Bangladesh team

Amla was our second leading run scorer in 2017 after Elgar. QdK averaged 35, Bavuma 32.
Do we drop him as well? Or are players dropped mainly on colour? Like AB failed to drop his underperforming buddies in 2015 and then cried foul play. How does that work?
 
When we exclude Bangladesh and Zimbabwe
Amla averages 40 over the last year (2017) ahead of QdK and Faf who average 37 and 38 respectively.

Link

Sorry for trampling on agendas.
Why do they make the team?
 
And Bavuma's done similarly/worse plus he bats in the middle order. So who is the replacement at #3?

Du Plessis at 3 and play this 19 year old Wiaan Mulder, don't much about him but he is rated very highly. Time for Amla to go, he looks finished. Scoring couple of hundreds against Bangladesh won't change it.
 
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Do you think Pakistan's bowling attack will cause you guys problems or no? It's most likely going to be Amir, Junaid, Hassan, Shah and hopefully, a pace bowling all-rounder.

Our batting will be rolled over unless Babar and Haris become established test players by the end of the year and the other bats raise their game.

TBH I have not watched much of Pakistan cricket down the years because every time they build an exciting team it gets dismantled from one reason to the next. I can't keep up with the influx of new players coming in. I was very upset in 2011 to see Akhtar playing in the 2011 WC (I thought he had long retired). To think that we could have seen a bowling attack of Akhtar, Amir, Asif, Ajmal playing together had Pakistan cricket had its house in order upsets me to this day, depending on conditions we could add A. Rehman/D. Kaneria. Even Saqlain Mushtaq just disappeared, my favourite LOI's spinner of all time.

To get back to your question, if Amir has discovered the form he had prior to his ban I see no reason why not. All it takes to win in South Africa is one front line bowler to bowl like a demon. Which is what Johnson did for Australia, to be fair they had Harris as well though SA handled him well.

It all comes to the batting unit thereafter. The question thus become: does Pakistan have a gutsy player in the mold of VVS Laxman to take an opportunity from a low scoring match?
 
Pakistan will get bulldozed, one of the worst test team right now.
 
If South Africa keep picking 6 Whites for all seven India and Australia Tests, they may well get to December and find that they can only meet the annual quota by only picking 3 or 4 Whites for the Pakistan Tests. And Mickey Arthur will know that very well!

It’s a serious problem. Let’s be frank: without the quota, Amla and Maharaj would not be in the team in 2018.

Another pearl of wisdom from Junaids.

Maharaj is the fastest South African spinner to 50 Test wickets since readmission in 1992 and joint second fastest in South African history.

Let's not let uninformed opinions take precedence over facts.
 
Du Plessis at 3 and play this 19 year old Wiaan Mulder, don't much about him but he is rated very highly. Time for Amla to go, he looks finished. Scoring couple of hundreds against Bangladesh won't change it.

Actually it's Faf who feasted against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. His average jumps from 38 to 50, lol. Get your head out of the clouds. If I'm not mistaken Amla averaged 40 in England as well. How did Faf do?
 
Amla averaged 41 in England, toughest opposition we've faced Faf 28.
But Faf must bat in Amla's place? Laughable really.
Amla has not been himself for a long time now, but what I found interesting is that he doesn't get bogged down as Faf. He has over 90 boundaries and three sixes, to Faf tentative 65 and 1 maximum. QdK who's more aggressive has 72 boundaries and 5 sixes.

Amla is a perfect foil for a number three, he's got the right balance between attack and defence.
 
Actually it's Faf who feasted against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. His average jumps from 38 to 50, lol. Get your head out of the clouds. If I'm not mistaken Amla averaged 40 in England as well. How did Faf do?

Faf is always in beast mode when he captains South Africa and also a great leader, You mentioned England but what about Australia series? He averaged 50+ and a series win.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/44828.html?captain=1;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
 
Another pearl of wisdom from Junaids.

Maharaj is the fastest South African spinner to 50 Test wickets since readmission in 1992 and joint second fastest in South African history.

Let's not let uninformed opinions take precedence over facts .

Facts and narratives make for strange bedfellows.
 
Faf is always in beast mode when he captains South Africa and also a great leader, You mentioned England but what about Australia series? He averaged 50+ and a series win.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/44828.html?captain=1;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

Faf did nothing in Australia as well except for a hundred in a dead rubber.
Amla's innings of 43 was more crucial in a low scoring match in Hobart. He toughed it out and ensured QdK had the platform and runs to counter. And that Starc didn't run through us. I don't need statsguru for that.

In any case that series is irrelevant, it was played in 2016 and has nothing to do with current form. Even QdK who was our best bat in that series has been awful.

You tried to make as if Amla feasted against a poor Bangladesh side when in fact it was your sweetheart du Plessis who did, then you change goalposts to Australia. An out of form Amla will always be superior to Faf, just like AB is to Bavuma.
 
India are lucky that QDK is out of form. That guy is an insane batsman.

I was impressed by India in the first test. In helpful conditions, their four-man pace attack looked effective. Hope Pandya fulfils his potential.

I guess SA's record at centurion suggests the pitches will favour their bowlers more than they did in the first test.
 
Defeat margin was due to difference in first innings. First innings of South Africa took place on first day. I think foreign teams can be excused for underperforming on first day of the tour.

South Africa have been better team in first test by virtue of that.
 
What do SA fans think of the balance of the side. Would you like to see Bavuma back at six or pick Morris or the young quick?
 
Du Plessis at 3 and play this 19 year old Wiaan Mulder, don't much about him but he is rated very highly. Time for Amla to go, he looks finished. Scoring couple of hundreds against Bangladesh won't change it.

Faf already got his shot at #3 and got exposed. He's not a test #3, which is arguably the most crucial batting position in the entire order.

Amla is certainly past his best but even a 'past his best' Amla is a world class batsman. Would walk into most teams as their #3 and here you want him gone in the middle of a series against India and with Australia to come. :facepalm:
 
What do SA fans think of the balance of the side. Would you like to see Bavuma back at six or pick Morris or the young quick?

Whatever side SA picks their 3 fast bowlers are enough for Indian batting line up as shown in the first test. The most interesting aspect of the second game is Indian team selection. I expect Virat to chicken out an select 6 batsman, play both Rahane and Rohit and drop a spinner. He will pick Rahane only because he has no choice now. Rahul will still remain out. If Dhawan fails again, Rahul will be brought back for the last test under pressure and will be dropped for ever from the test side as in ODI's and T20's.
 
If four bowlers can do the job, Virat Kohli shouldn't hesitate to drop Hardik Pandya -Aakash Chopra

Picking the playing XI for a Test match can either be straightforward or a little tricky. If the team is settled and most players pick themselves, it’s just about putting those names on paper before the captain signing the sheet at the bottom. But if you are looking for answers to certain questions, it can test your judgment and resolve. What comes first — the combination you want to play, or the personnel you deem will fit the bill? Should pedigree be the only yardstick, or current form can override the historical references? Considering India’s tremendous run in the last 24 months, the selection of the playing XI should’ve been easy, but it was anything but that for the Test match in Cape Town.

Hardik Pandya in action on Day 2 of the first Test against South Africa at Newlands, Cape Town. AP
Hardik Pandya in action on Day 2 of the first Test against South Africa at Newlands, Cape Town. AP

India chose to play only five batsmen with Hardik Pandya given a place in the XI. And that wasn’t the only tough decision that the team management took, for they chose Shikhar Dhawan over KL Rahul and Rohit Sharma over Ajinkya Rahane with both Rahul and Rahane having better away records than the ones chosen to play. In addition, India handed the debut to Jasprit Bumrah, which meant that the fast bowling star of the long Indian home season — Umesh Yadav — warmed the bench. One would assume that these brave and unpopular decisions were taken on the basis of sound judgment and clarity of thought. A heartbreaking loss in the first Test will lead to these decisions being judged and discussed threadbare. It’ll also test team management’s judgment and clarity of thought going forward.

So, how do you finalise the playing XI for the second Test? Should you use the first Test as the starting point or simply consider the second Test a brand new entity? The reason to bring up this question is to figure out what comes first — team composition based on the pitch with regards to how many batsmen-fast bowler-spinners should feature in the XI, or is it about who can’t be dropped because of the way he performed in the last outing.

Pandya’s performance has given India this sweet headache, for leaving him out would invite wrath of the supporters and experts — he was the highest scorer of the game from both sides — but playing him might mean compromising with the team combination that you might think is ideal for the pitch in Centurion, and what’s best suited for the team after the twin batting failure.

In my humble opinion, it should always be about the team combination first, for the pitch offered for the match dictates that. If the pitch is anywhere close to the one in Cape Town (there’s enough reasons to be believe that Centurion is very similar to Cape Town, if not a little more lively), it’s only pragmatic to play six proper batsmen. On a pitch offering loads to the bowlers, you must bolster the batting like you must bolster the bowling department on a flat pitch. If you think that you’d need only four bowlers to take 20 wickets, playing an extra bowling option at the cost of a proper Test batsman isn’t recommended. Especially when your batting has failed twice.

Let me raise another question before you shred me to threads for the suggestion to drop Pandya. If the same team can drop Karun Nair in the very next match after he scored the triple century (only the second Indian to do so) for the sake of playing the right combination, why is it preposterous to suggest that Pandya can be left out too for the same reason? Back then, India felt the need for the fifth bowler on a flat Hyderabad pitch against Bangladesh and Karun was told to sit out. Keeping the spirit of the same logic, if the pitch at Centurion demands only four bowlers, team shouldn’t hesitate to leave Pandya out. If this team can leave out its vice-captain after only one poor series in his career, it surely knows how to take the unpopular calls.

That brings me to the second unpopular question to ponder — the spot occupied by Dhawan at the top. While he’s scored a lot of runs in all three formats since the Champions Trophy, the jury is out on his ability to play overseas. The modes of his dismissals in the first Test have, once gain, opened the Pandora’s box. Since it’s widely believed that Rahul is better equipped to handle pace, bounce and lateral movement in the air and off the surface, does he merit a place in the XI for the second Test? It’s important to remember that any corrective measures taken after the second Test might have no bearing on the outcome of this series. It’s human to err and if the team management feels that they erred in judgment with regards to Dhawan for the first Test, they can surely make amends in the second without thinking about how the decision will look to the outsiders.

There are no right or wrong answers to address the selection conundrum and it’s almost certain that irrespective of the path the team takes, it will be criticised. But that must not stop them from doing what they think is right, even if it means taking a few more unpopular and brave decisions in the second Test too.

So Mr.Chopra Suggesting to drop Hardik Pandya for second test for the sake of team combination
 
Pandya's innings has created problem in selection for sure. Can't go with proper 6 batsman nor 4 bowlers. This will be big issue as he is not no 6 batsman in test format.
 
For the sake of Indian cricket, fans, commentators and everyone else, it is best Aakash Chopra just don't open his mouth..
 
Pandya's way of batting won't always be successful.
 
Fitness of Shami and ineffectiveness
Of Ashwin does not allow India to play only 4 bowlers.

Pandya offers the 5th bowling option without compromising too much on batting.

What India needs to do is give Parthiv Patel a chance and hope he keeps well. Saha is a poor batsman.

One of the biggest difference between SA and Indian squads is that SA has a keeper who is one of their best batsmen. De Cock offers the depth in batting. He is not a great keeper. But a decent one. I have seen him miss so many chances. Yet SA persists with him due to batting depth.

Rohit should be kicked out and Rahul should come in. I would play Dhawan in middle order when the ball is a bit older.

Please drop Murali Vijay. He builds up so much pressure on himself and gets out by playing a stupid shot.

Parthiv Patel/Dhawan
Rahul
Pujara
Kohli
Dhawan/Parthiv Patel
Rahane
Pandya
Ashwin
BK
Shami
Bumrah

Above line up will score 300 every time they come out to bat. Considering SA conditions, 300 is a match winning score.
 
This test will define Kohli's men if they are any different from previous teams, we lost badly against SL in 2015 during our first away series under Virat and then came back to win it 2-1; a series win after 25 years.

If they go down in this test n series then i don't see them winning in AUS/ ENG either. Big match... lets see what happens over the next few days!
 
India are lucky that QDK is out of form. That guy is an insane batsman.

I was impressed by India in the first test. In helpful conditions, their four-man pace attack looked effective. Hope Pandya fulfils his potential.

I guess SA's record at centurion suggests the pitches will favour their bowlers more than they did in the first test.

He is not our of form, no one scored on that pitch except pandya/ abd/ faf (all 3 were dropped once)
 
Centurion: The South African pacers are in for a treat at the SuperSport Park as they gear up to take on India in the second Test of the three-match series from Saturday. Speaking exclusively to CricketNext, chief curator Bryan Bloy has promised a wicket that will have pace, bounce and a bit of sideways movement.

The Indian batsmen will definitely have their task cut-out with pace and bounce not being something that Virat Kohli and his boys are too comfortable against. Add to that the invariable bounce that might come in later in the Test match.

"Firstly my apologies, I don't like doing lives, just happy to speak to you. Coming to the wicket, well you will get pace and bounce. That is the true nature of the wicket here at SuperSport Park. You can also expect a bit of sideways movement, but primarily pace and bounce.

"Going into the later stages of the game, you might also start seeing some invariable bounce as it is very dry here and that would or could make the pitch crack up. But that would not really be for assistance to the spinners. Wickets at SuperSport Park over the years have turned, not that it has not, but that would be more from the rough created by the bowlers," he said.

In his second season in charge at the venue, Bloy says that more than favouring the home team, it is about preparing a wicket that shall play true to its nature.

"See, pace and bounce comes naturally here and that is what we have tried to keep. No point trying to change the nature of the wicket. Yes, it does end up helping the home team, but that is how it is world over. You cannot expect to change the true nature of the wicket," he smiles.

Bloy was seen having a longish chat with the South African players in the middle, asked if it was anything specific, he said: "Naah, just showing them around the wicket as they wanted to have a look at it. Don't worry, I would say the same things to the Indian team if they ask me (smiles again).

"For most of these guys, Titans is their domestic team and they play here at SuperSport Park, so they do know about the style of play on this one."

http://www.news18.com/cricketnext/n...-in-centurion-curator-bryan-bloy-1630251.html
 
Pandya's innings was good but he will not succeed often playing that way unless he comes in with 'nothing to lose' situations, anyway i presume he will be picked for all 3 tests this series.
 
Since 2010, visiting top-order (1-3) batsmen average around 25 in South Africa, while the middle order averages around 10 runs higher. Even South Africa's own top order have struggled with Smith and Peterson (remember him?) averaging below 40 at home. Source: Cricinfo.

It's clear that India cannot afford Dhawan batting in the top. Do people really expect him to do well given that even someone like Smith had difficulty negotiating the new ball in these conditions? However, it should also be noted that India's middle order need to score the bulk of the runs when and if the top order see off the first session.

Rahul, Vijay, Pujara, Rahane and Kohli as the top five gives a lot more confidence than having Dhawan and Rohit in there and Kohli being two dismissals away from facing his kryptonite.

If India want to keep Rohit in the team that bad, they're better off dropping Ashwin whose bowling won't be of much use in Centurion.
 
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Rahane has to play even if Kohli has to sit out. You don't carry best oversea batsman just to warm the bench
 
For the sake of Indian cricket, fans, commentators and everyone else, it is best Aakash Chopra just don't open his mouth..

He used to be one of my favorite analysts but I am afraid, he has become a sellout these days.

Every Indian commie is a sell out these days.

The way they defend each pathetic decision of our team management is sad.
 
Cape Town - Often perceived as only having Test success on their own soil, this Indian group is determined to show that they are good enough to get results away from home and, more significantly, in South Africa, England and Australia.

To their credit, there have been absolutely no issues with the state of the wickets on their South African tour so far.

From the day they arrived in South Africa, coach Ravi Shastri and captain Virat Kohli have said that there would be no excuses if things did not go their way.

That stance was put to the test when, in Cape Town, India's batsmen were blown away on a green wicket that did everything to help the fast bowlers.

Still, though, there were no complaints.

Kohli may have been forgiven for feeling a little better about the wicket in Centurion for the second Test.

Proteas skipper Faf du Plessis said earlier on Thursday that he had expected more green on the surface, but Kohli was not having any of it.

He is still expecting a wicket that is pace-friendly, and after watching his own seamers excel in cape Town, that is something that he is embracing.

"It looks like a really lively pitch and exactly what we expected it to be," Kohli said.

"We actually wanted it to be that way so that both teams are into the contest provided they play some good cricket.

"We were pretty happy to see the wicket and how it behaved in Cape Town ... that gave us many opportunities to stay in the game and make comebacks when we were put under pressure.

"This pitch will again Test us to play our best cricket and that is something that we're looking forward to."

Kohli added that there were still a number of selection issues that needed resolving before play got underway on Saturday morning.

"At this stage everybody is still in the running and no decisions have been made," he said.

India must win in Pretoria to keep their hopes of becoming the first Indian side to win a Test series in South Africa alive.

https://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/kohli-india-pleased-with-lively-pitch-20180112


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Kohli keeping a brave face!
 
Otis Gibson says he wants four fast bowlers so I'd prefer to see Lungi Ndigi get the nod ahead of Chris Morris, Duanne Olivier and Andile Phehlukwayo who looked nothing special when I saw them in England.

However he's only played 9 FC matches so they may want to save him for the future. He has a reputation for pace and has made a great start to his FC career.
 
Dhawan really needs to take a hike in test cricket (yes even in India), he is not cut out for it and is taking up others places needlessly, Rohit must be replaces with Rahane too
 
He used to be one of my favorite analysts but I am afraid, he has become a sellout these days.

Every Indian commie is a sell out these days.

The way they defend each pathetic decision of our team management is sad.

How is asking to drop Pandya defending team management?
 
My XI: Rahul, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Pandya, Parthiv, Ashwin/Jadeja, Bhuvi, Shami, and Ishant/Yadav.

Serious batting depth [the issue was batting after all], batting all rounder/useful 4th seamer, a very solid keeper who can bat, a frontline spinner, and three main seamers.

Rohit and Dhawan are more Yuvraj than Pietersen. Yuvi could only devastate in ODIs and not in Tests outside Asia, and KP could destroy any lineup in any conditions in any format. This global obsession with finding a David Warner type of player isn't going to win teams Test matches. Saha may be terrific keeper, but as a batsman he's really not good enough for #7 in bowling conditions.

Really want India to win but unless there's some magical KP like batting, SA will seal the series in four days. Hope SA lose but Amla, and QDK will come good and silence the haters.
 
Don't keep such high hopes from Rahane. If he cannot score against SriLanka at home,how will he score against South Africa away?

It's more likely that he won't, but he's one innings away from form and a proven better batsman outside Asia than the guys in the team. At his age, a batter of Rahane's class doesn't become useless overnight.

Kumble would've kept the faith if he was around, and yaarian of cap/coach may cost India the series.

Whoever gets selected, I don't care who is in the team if they perform and India wins.
 
It's more likely that he won't, but he's one innings away from form and a proven better batsman outside Asia than the guys in the team. At his age, a batter of Rahane's class doesn't become useless overnight.

Kumble would've kept the faith if he was around, and yaarian of cap/coach may cost India the series.

Whoever gets selected, I don't care who is in the team if they perform and India wins.
That was Sri lanka and it was still in Sub Continent. This is South Africa. They did not have Morkel philander rabada and morris/steyn
 
It will be interesting to see the x1. Kohli has some tough decisions to make.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
 
So, now the pitches SA are dishing out are sporting pitches? But people cried when India served them rank turners?

Honestly, im perfectly fine with SA serving greenest or bounciest pitch ever, as both teams will have to bat on it.
 
Frankly I am losing respect for this SA team every time their curator opens his mouth. After all the moaning from faf about spinning pitches and home advantage you have the curator saying not just that pitch will have bounce, pace and grass to aid SA but also that he is trying to make sure that pitch does not spin as that would be detrimental to SA, imagine an Indian curator saying such things and imagine the backlash.
 
Looking forward to a one sided contest. This Indian team is no match to proteas.Finish them!
#Demolish
#no mercy
 
Kind of messed up the earlier post those spin comments are from faf but still hypocrisy from du plesis.
 
Reports are suggesting the pitch is brown.
Disappointing if that's the case.
At least prepare a surface that's similar to the one against Pakistan.
 
Frankly I am losing respect for this SA team every time their curator opens his mouth. After all the moaning from faf about spinning pitches and home advantage you have the curator saying not just that pitch will have bounce, pace and grass to aid SA but also that he is trying to make sure that pitch does not spin as that would be detrimental to SA, imagine an Indian curator saying such things and imagine the backlash.

Indian curators don't have to say anything, they prepare rubbish pitches anyways which have been rated as poor by the ICC on numerous occasions.

Why should our conditions cater for spinners? We did that for India last time they toured. What did we get in return? A knife in the back that's what.

South Africa are no longer naive about home conditions, for too long we've catered for the opposition at the expense of our home dominance. Those days are long gone.
 
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Indian curators don't have to say anything, they prepare rubbish pitches anyways which have been rated as poor by the ICC on numerous occasions.

Why should our conditions cater for spinners? We did that for India last time they toured. What did we get in return? A knife in the back that's what.

South Africa are no longer naive about home conditions, for too long we've catered for the opposition at the expense of our home dominance. Those days are long gone.

No one said they should but I was pointing to the hypocrisy of the SA team after moaning day and night about misuse of home advantage by India to do the same, either deal fairly with the opposition or don't moan about it when you get taste of your own medicine.
 
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