"Sportsmanship of few Champions got tested and they failed badly" : Waqar Younis

[dildilpak]

And you think that just because younis khan was smiling, Pakistan deliberately lost that match? That match went till the last bowl. Please go and see the scorecard or even watch the highlights of that game. It was a brilliant game (not one sided at all, like India vs eng) in which we fought till the last ball. Maybe because you were not able to identify any suspicious activity during that game, you directed all the attention towards younis khan's smile and made a fuss about it?

I am not the one making a fuss about the smile, everybody was. Losing a game by 2 runs when Pakistan was cruising at one point - doesn’t that sound suspicious? But I was not trying to pin the blame on Younis, just was making a point to counter the conspiracy theorists abounding in this forum.

I am saying that we don’t have anything concrete to pinpoint the blame on Dhoni - he played the same way the last game too & also practically the whole tournament- looks to be loosing his hand-eye co-ordination.

 

[Titan24]

What exactly is the issue?

That India threw the match? Even if it is so, so what? It was their match to throw. If like England, India had come into this match as a must-win encounter then they wouldn't have had the option to "throw" the match.

Maybe they felt that facing NZ in the semi is a better option than facing England or even Pakistan. If India was actually in a position to decide who they might play in the SF then so be it. They only managed to do so because they won 6 out of 6 games before that. They earned that privilege.

Credit to India for performing so well that even after yesterday's loss they are still a surety for the SF.

If PCT had managed to replicate India's WC performance so far, then you wouldn't even need to be in this thread right now.

It was their match to throw? Bro right here is the problem, if they did it then it falls under match fixing which is against the spirit of the game. ICC being the governing body is not supposed to let such things happen.

 

[Titan24]

Fun times on PP!!! Pakistanis claiming Indians are good enough to win and Indians otherwise.

Nope! Not only Pakistanis even English sports experts and some Indians too find certain things hard to believe.

 

[Ucdkee]

I am not the one making a fuss about the smile, everybody was. Losing a game by 2 runs when Pakistan was cruising at one point - doesn’t that sound suspicious?

We did not lose that game by 2 runs, we were actually defending in that match. On the contrary, Australia was cruising at one stage and we came back in the game. They needed one run of the last ball which they stole of a bye.

India can do whatever they want. they have every right to choose who they want to face in the semis but comparing this match to Pakistan CT match against Australia is very irritating.

 

[loves_cricket]

It was their match to throw? Bro right here is the problem, if they did it then it falls under match fixing which is against the spirit of the game. ICC being the governing body is not supposed to let such things happen.

Since when scoring more then 300 batting second counts as throwing match?
If that is the case then what about England? scored around 310 and lost by similar margin.
And what about team rolled over around 100?
Seriously guys stop crying, its not even your team lost.
And remember one thing, India wanted to win, but just not good enough.
But what we Indians know about match fixing anyway?

 

[FreePalestine]

No they are people who are paid to voice their opinions. And they have done so. But none of them gave any explanation for the same. Please quote them if I have missed it.

What I don't understand is what is it to Pakistan fans how India played. It's India which lost 2 points.

Why do Pakistan fans feel like they are even entitled to an explanation for yesterday's match? PCT was not playing yesterday. It's none of the fans' business how the match went.

Statements like "match was fixed" and "spirit of cricket was murdered" only makes Pakistani cricket look weaker. Pakistani fans and (ex)-players with any amount of self-respect really shouldn't be saying anything about this match at all.

Before the match we saw Pakistani fans chanting "Jai Hind" and waving the tri-colour and now after the result we see this. Surely people have more self-respect than that.

Pakistan are entitled to an explanation for the very reason you give in the next paragraph - fixing a match by deliberately underperforming is against the spirit of cricket. This is an offence against the game I love, and that is why Nasser Hussain, Gary Linekar and others who are not Pakistan fans were also surprised by India’s approach. So it is my business, you see.

So supporting India in a situation where our interests (ought to) naturally align shows a lack of self-respect? What do you mean by self-respect in this instance? Blind hatred of our neighbours - would that show more self-respect?

 

[zafarsyed]

This is a perfect example of emotions getting the best of someone and then using social media to show how mentally weak they are. Here are few points that I would like to address here:

1. If you actually watched the game, it was a perfect example of England, a team that had everything to play for, show more hunger than Indian counterpart and that is why they won the game and India had very little to do in losing this game. England started the game off by seeing off the most lethal threat that India has and that is Bumrah. After that, they took on the Indian spinners which other teams have failed to do and credit goes to England for it. Stokes finished off their innings in a great fashion by targeting Shami who's weakness, which is death bowling, was exposed in this game. That is why India has gone with B. Kumar ahead of him in the first place when the tournament started. When India came out to bat, England bowled stifling line and length and did not allow easy runs to Indian batsmen. Yes, Dhoni and Yadav could have tried throwing their bat at everything and lost their wickets and gotten all out, but they decided to play out all the overs and improve their net run rate which could come into play in the worst case scenario for India. It was just a case of risk and reward and they chose to not go for the win and it is as simple as that. It had nothing to do with how this result affect Pakistan in any way. I know it is very convenient to think that the whole world revolves around and how everyone in this world is out to get you, but that is not the reality.

2. India does not owe anything to Pakistan or any other team for that matter. If losing this game was going to benefit India in any way (which it probably did not but then again that is just my opinion), it is their prerogative and right to make that decision to lose the game. Again, I do not think they lost on purpose, but they most definitely reserve the right to make that decision on their own rather than so many Pakistani team supporters making it for them.

3. Now I do not blame Waqar for having such a thought cross his mind. Not going to lie, it crossed my mind as well. But as a rational human being, it was my duty to remind myself to not be so self centered. I guess Waqar failed to that. But the bigger mistake here is letting your emotions get the best of you and putting out such a toxic tweet out in the open for the rest of the world to see. It shows lack of judgement from someone who has a very prestigious platform where people actually pay more attention to what he has to say. It is better to use that platform to do and say positive things rather than putting out such venomous and irresponsible tweets.

 

[ak619]

Pakistan are entitled to an explanation for the very reason you give in the next paragraph - fixing a match by deliberately underperforming is against the spirit of cricket. This is an offence against the game I love, and that is why Nasser Hussain, Gary Linekar and others who are not Pakistan fans were also surprised by India’s approach. So it is my business, you see.

So supporting India in a situation where our interests (ought to) naturally align shows a lack of self-respect? What do you mean by self-respect in this instance? Blind hatred of our neighbours - would that show more self-respect?

If the match was "fixed" then I'm sure a money trail for that would soon be found by the British authorities.

If however the match was thrown due to strategic reasons, then you just have to live with it. Being a "lover of cricket" doesn't grant you any explanation for that.

It's a commonly accepted idea even among the Pakistani players that NZ threw their game against PAK in the 1992 WC because they wanted to play their SF on a home ground. Strange that your love for cricket doesn't allow you to question that but yesterday's match has gotten you all hot and bothered.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yes, because commentators are free to say what they please on air. India were certaintly trying to win for 90% of the match. During the last 10% though, it was obvious that they just gave up trying. If someone believes that Dhoni and Jadhav were still trying to chase down the target when all they were doing is take singles in the 48th and 49th over, I can acquaint them with a Nigerian prince who has the offer of a lifetime...

No. Commentators are not free to slander players.

 

[AdamM97]

Pakistan are entitled to an explanation for the very reason you give in the next paragraph - fixing a match by deliberately underperforming is against the spirit of cricket. This is an offence against the game I love, and that is why Nasser Hussain, Gary Linekar and others who are not Pakistan fans were also surprised by India’s approach. So it is my business, you see.

So supporting India in a situation where our interests (ought to) naturally align shows a lack of self-respect? What do you mean by self-respect in this instance? Blind hatred of our neighbours - would that show more self-respect?

Writing Jai Hind because you want Pakistan to qualify is embarassing. I cringed at every Pakistani who wrote that, sometimes we go too far with our memes and jokes.

 

[FreePalestine]

If the match was "fixed" then I'm sure a money trail for that would soon be found by the British authorities.

If however the match was thrown due to strategic reasons, then you just have to live with it. Being a "lover of cricket" doesn't grant you any explanation for that.

It's a commonly accepted idea even among the Pakistani players that NZ threw their game against PAK in the 1992 WC because they wanted to play their SF on a home ground. Strange that your love for cricket doesn't allow you to question that but yesterday's match has gotten you all hot and bothered.

You realize it is 2019. Why would I be questioning a match in 1992 today?

At least you have admitted that they deliberately threw the game, which is match fixing by the way, regardless of whether it was done for money or for some other reason. Deliberate underperformance is match fixing. So thanks for acknowledging that. I don’t think you are really capable of much beyond that so will leave you to your trolling now.

 

[CricLegend]

What happens if BAN and Sri Lanka beat IND?
And PK to lose big against BANG? i.e similar to WI margins?

 

[CricLegend]

There's a straight forward explanation. They all decided that they aren't gonna win. They decided to get close to the target so results against BD or SL don't matter as long as NRR is high enough. Heres the proof:

Pandya's over against Rashid. It was an ideal matchup for Pandya but he took singles. Pandya's batting against Archer where he tried to dab the ball instead of scoring boundaries. Dhoni's six in the last over and then the refused single. He was trying to get close to the target and lose by a lower margin.

It appears the plan is to not get 250 all out but get close to 300 so NRR isn't impacted. Thats the Mumbai khadoos mentality and people who know Mumbai or Dhoni from IPL know this. Winning the battle is not as important as winning the war.

Because of this, India is a sureshot for semi irrespective of what the results are in the next two games as long as they don't lose big. And they won't against BD or SL. It gives them a chance of NZ matchup in semis and England again which is vulnerable on any pitch that's not flat.

What happens if BAN and Sri Lanka beat IND?
And PK to lose big against BANG? i.e similar to WI margins?

 

[rhony]

What happens if BAN and Sri Lanka beat IND?
And PK to lose big against BANG? i.e similar to WI margins?

They have to beat India by more than 75 runs for Ind to lose the SF spot.

 

[rhony]

Nope! Not only Pakistanis even English sports experts and some Indians too find certain things hard to believe.

Once you stop thinking India was trying to boot Pak out, you will see the real story. Nobody is scoring 70 in 30 balls, let alone Dhoni

 

[CricLegend]

Man, some of the trolls supporting India’s fixing on this thread are just repeating nonsensical and false arguments. Really, if they were honest, they would realize that if India deliberately threw that match, that is wrong, unethical and in many ways, unbelievably arrogant / petty depending on whether they did it because they think they can beat Eng in the final easily or because they dislike Pakistan.

If you don’t think India threw the game, then you have to answer the questions already put in this thread about why Dhoni and Jadhav played the way they did in the last 7-8 overs when the target was difficult but not impossible. If you know that they deliberately lost then you should condemn your team for fixing a game of cricket. Simple really.

Not worth talking about the game anymore. IND may have got the upper hand on this occasion but its not finished yet so you never know who will have the last laugh. There may be another twist to the tale and PAK can come back to haunt IND. Will be brilliant if it happens and egg on dhoni and all the nationalistic faces. I always had a feeling that this WC19 will be one to remember.

 

[CricLegend]

They have to beat India by more than 75 runs for Ind to lose the SF spot.

If Pak cant get thru, they can let BANG win against them by a huge margin. For example BANG to chase 150 inside 20 overs. This will increase their NRR.

 

[Titan24]

Hahaha this is the best thing dhoni has done in last few years. Rile up PPers lol

Again, for me its nothing to do with Pak going froward or India doing whatever they want.

Some ex players and experts who have have almost around 1500-2000 international matches between them are suggesting it as bizarre. ICC is supposed to protecting the spirit of the game. If Steve Smith, Warner, Amir etc damages the spirit of the game then incase India did something shady it has to be accounted for as well.

 

[rhony]

If Pak cant get thru, they can let BANG win against them by a huge margin. For example BANG to chase 150 inside 20 overs. This will increase their NRR.

India play SL after the Pak vs BD. They can make sure they go through

 

[Titan24]

Once you stop thinking India was trying to boot Pak out, you will see the real story. Nobody is scoring 70 in 30 balls, let alone Dhoni

Why arent Naseer Hussain, Ganguly, Mangerker etc seeing that story. They have played tons of international matches, is their love for Pak blinding them as well?

 

[rhony]

Again, for me its nothing to do with Pak going froward or India doing whatever they want.

Some ex players and experts who have have almost around 1500-2000 international matches between them are suggesting it as bizarre. ICC is supposed to protecting the spirit of the game. If Steve Smith, Warner, Amir etc damages the spirit of the game then incase India did something shady it has to be accounted for as well.

How can you prove it was Shady? Dhoni already got a rap once in the tournament in the Afg game. He actually played a similar innings last year against ENg in Eng and got booed.

 

[rhony]

Why arent Naseer Hussain, Ganguly, Mangerker etc seeing that story. They have played tons of international matches, is their love for Pak blinding them as well?

Ganguly kept saying Dhoni is capable. That's his mistake. ANyone who saw Dhoni for the past 2 years knows there is no way he could chase 70 in 30. If at all, Dhoni is probably miffed with himself that he couldn't score another 10 runs in the last over. This defeat is insignificant to India as long as their NRR is up. They have 2 relatively easier games next with BD and SL

 

[Titan24]

How can you prove it was Shady? Dhoni already got a rap once in the tournament in the Afg game. He actually played a similar innings last year against ENg in Eng and got booed.

When did I say that? I am just saying incase they did something shady. Its for ICC to investigate, not me but if some ex international players are saying something they all cant be wrong at the same time.

 

[rhony]

When did I say that? I am just saying incase they did something shady. Its for ICC to investigate, not me but if some ex international players are saying something they all cant be wrong at the same time.

That's the thing, they can be surprised and can say anything. But everybody knows why Dhoni is in the team. It's to guide Kohli, spinners, the tail and make sure India reaches par score. He's not the same hitter anymore. As far as the lack of intent goes, I already said there are logical reasons.

 

[Obaidd]

Dhoni has a history of playing such innings.

 

[CricLegend]

India play SL after the Pak vs BD. They can make sure they go through

SRI LANKA can win against the Buzdils... I mean IND

 

[Obaidd]

That's because these ex players only watch tournament matches. They don't want India bilaterals against teams not their own. So they still has perception of dhoni as that of 2010. If they had watched dhoni play in last 4-5 years they would know this is not first time he has been so rubbish.

Same goes for all PPers who think it was intentional there have been many matches like these when dhoni sucked the momentum. So theres no conspiracy it's just incompetence..

Still funny seeing people cry about it whereas Indians know how incompetent our middle order is others think our middle order is great

You are right. Indian fans have for long lamented their poor middle order. I think the middle order only clicked in one of the warm ups and that’s it. KL had just begun to find his feet in the new role but it was a poor decision to move him to opening position. Actually it was a blunder by the management.

 

[rhony]

SRI LANKA can win against the Buzdils... I mean IND

They can and were robbed a certain win against Pak. But again, doesn't matter to India. They are already in the SF

 

[Usman Chadda]

India tactically outgunned. That is all i can say. Inspite of everything India was in the game. But most unpardonable thing was Dhoni's mega flop of not going for a review second time in a row. Roy's dismissal at that point would have brought Root in. Bairstow slowed down as soon as Roy got out. Their goal was both going after bowling until first wicket fell. It completely changed the dynamics. Pitch started slowing down by 30th over. By the time India used up bulk of Kuldeep's over. India will be ready next time they meet these guys. (Hope NZ put these arrogant guys away)

India was out of the game by the end of the first innings. You guys had no hope of chasing 338. You have only two competent batsmen, the rest are below average.

 

[Usman Chadda]

They can and were robbed a certain win against Pak. But again, doesn't matter to India. They are already in the SF

Pakistan was never losing to Lanka. There is a reason we are still in contention, and they have been knocked out despite two free points and one outstanding victory.

 

[rhony]

Pakistan was never losing to Lanka. There is a reason we are still in contention, and they have been knocked out despite two free points and one outstanding victory.

You never know. They were robbed two games against Pak and BD. Pak or SL or BD punch above their weight against better teams because they have nothing to lose and play without fear. Same is not the case against teams that they are expected to win.

 

[Usman Chadda]

You never know. They were robbed two games against Pak and BD. Pak or SL or BD punch above their weight against better teams because they have nothing to lose and play without fear. Same is not the case against teams that they are expected to win.

Nah, Pakistan and Bangladesh both would have comfortably beat them.

 

[moghul]

So match fixing and ball tempering is all hallmark of class and integrity.
I am happy our standards are not that high. We scored 306 chasing 337, lost 1st wicket on 0, people questioning our integrity and class,

Match fixing is bad, no one is blaming your team for that, they did not not "fix" the match, just threw the match away to hurt another team. We need to invent a new term for that act if its not lack of sportsmanship or fixing.

 

[CricLegend]

LOL. Take it easy man. As I said, India doesnt need to win. They are through because they spanked a few teams and have a good NRR

I dont think IND NRR is as good as u think. IF BANG win IND. ENG beat NZ, PAK dont play with intent against BANG and get hammered.

Bang can surpass IND NRR

 

[Salman]

Absolute nonsense from Waqar, stop undermining a solid England performance, 337 is no walk in the park when chasing, India is not a super imortal unbeatable team and can be as complacent as anyone else on the day.

Waqar should be venting his frustrations at the Pak think tank who thanks to the ECB had been given the best possible opportunity to prepare for the tournament but got exposed immediately againt WI performace.

 

[CCAD]

Must say most Cricket fans from Pakistan seem to clued on about Dhoni’s uselessness in such situation and understand it was Dhoni being Dhoni rather than deliberate attempt to knock Pakistan out.
Of course there are few Nutter Pakistani fans and ex-cricketers. India has fair few of them as well

 

[Pete Rose]

This is madness from Waqar and others

 

[rhony]

I dont think IND NRR is as good as u think. IF BANG win IND. ENG beat NZ, PAK dont play with intent against BANG and get hammered.

Bang can surpass IND NRR

No. India has to lose by 75 runs or more against BD and SL. They won't. They are a gun team. They are a smart team. If at all, it might be the opposite and India will continue to spank lesser teams

 

[Third Man]

I am not the one making a fuss about the smile, everybody was. Losing a game by 2 runs when Pakistan was cruising at one point - doesn’t that sound suspicious? But I was not trying to pin the blame on Younis, just was making a point to counter the conspiracy theorists abounding in this forum.

I am saying that we don’t have anything concrete to pinpoint the blame on Dhoni - he played the same way the last game too & also practically the whole tournament- looks to be loosing his hand-eye co-ordination.

As if that has never happened to Pakistan before or since.

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

Waqar's isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the kitchen. His insinuation that India threw the game away deliberately reinforces my belief that he should have never appointed coach of Pak cricket team. Whatever this guy says is just to generate controversy and nothing more. He should not be taken seriously.

India played smart cricket at the end and ensured they preserve their NRR and not lose badly to England. They have 2 games remaining and should easily win 1 out of 2 if not both to qualify for the semis.

 

[surg]

Very well thought and said. He is right. India should have attempted the chase.

 

[BaankeJi]

All speculations without any proof. These Pakistanis demand proof from others but when their turn comes.....we are seeing what happens.

 

[Napa]

Yeah... there was much more than a 0.1% chance of chasing 11 / over on these pitches for the last seven overs... You say ‘Fine if Dhoni had tried, but okay if he didn’t’ So you are ok with him deliberately losing the game? Your reply shows that there is no real answer to Usman’s question. Your only response there is ‘Anyway it is Dhoni’s decision. No one can tell him...’ lol.

1. It was not 11 an over for the last 7, it was 11.85. If you are going to round off, it is 12 and not 11.

2. Pandya was playing and I don't think anyone who watched him play will say he wasn't trying. Repeated shots were cut off at the boundary.

3. NRR is also a consideration when it comes to the position in the group stage. Maybe Dhoni was trying to maximize the Indian innings score.

4. WI lost today by 23 runs, scoring only 23 runs in the last 5 overs compared to 39 by India yesterday. This is not unusual.

 

[Zaz]

1. It was not 11 an over for the last 7, it was 11.85. If you are going to round off, it is 12 and not 11.

2. Pandya was playing and I don't think anyone who watched him play will say he wasn't trying. Repeated shots were cut off at the boundary.

3. NRR is also a consideration when it comes to the position in the group stage. Maybe Dhoni was trying to maximize the Indian innings score.

4. WI lost today by 23 runs, scoring only 23 runs in the last 5 overs compared to 39 by India yesterday. This is not unusual.

Wi lost the game by being bowled out going for a win

They didnt score 23 off the last 5 overs and preserve their wkts like india did

 

[Usman]

The downside of coming out swinging is that India would likely have ended up with a score around 280 instead of 306. There may be a psychological benefit of crossing 300.

Anyway, it is Dhoni's decision. No one can tell him that he needs to try for that 0.1% chance of a win that won't make much difference to India's knockout stage. If it was a knockout game and he did not try for the 0.1% chance, then as an Indian I would have been upset. This particular game just didn't have enough significance for India to go for the 0.1% chance of a win. Fine if Dhoni had tried, but okay if he didn't.

Ironically, this game was actually a knockout game for Pakistan (even though they were not playing) and not India, hence the strong reactions.

I doubt there is any physiological advantage in showing the opposition and the World that you don't even have the self belief to win.

Take the emotion out of what this particular loss and what it means to Pakistan for one second. I cannot believe that any true cricket fan would support their team giving up, no matter how unlikely a victory may seem.

For the record, India did not have a 0.1% chance of victory. The real odds were 30-35%. To not try in those circumstances is unforgivable.

 

[shockbound]

Let's assume India decided to lose intentionally. I refer you to bumrah ''s last spell. He gave 25 runs in 5 overs against butler, stokes and root while firing in perfect yorkers every ball. If it was India's plan to lose he could have bowled a few bad ball which would have taken the score above 350. And no way we were going to chase that. And it would not even have eyebrows raised. So if it was our plan to lose we would have done that.

1. Stats padding for Bumrah, Kohli, Sharma.
2. Needed to keep NR close.
3. Didnt needed to be obvious fix, 330+ was more than enough.

 

[ak619]

Wi lost the game by being bowled out going for a win

They didnt score 23 off the last 5 overs and preserve their wkts like india did

Apples to Oranges comparison. WI were already out of the tournament before they began today's match. They had nothing to lose. India on the other hand hasn't yet qualified and has to keep an eye on its NRR.

 

[ak619]

1. Stats padding for Bumrah, Kohli, Sharma.
2. Needed to keep NR close.
3. Didnt needed to be obvious fix, 330+ was more than enough.

Should also question PCT how they bundled out for 105 against WI - a team that couldn't manage a single win in 9 matches apart from that match against Pakistan.

Something really suspicious there, don't you think?

 

[sshakir411]

Waqar bhai ki in swinging Yorker triggering the Indian twitter army’s rage

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Waqar is right india lost the match & respect for a purpose.

 

[jnaveen1980]

India was out of the game by the end of the first innings. You guys had no hope of chasing 338. You have only two competent batsmen, the rest are below average.

That is not true. India is very much capable of chasing if these two click. They did click. INdia was not really far away from the target when there was a lull created by Dhoni. Having spent IPL for 1.5 months 70 odd in 6 overs is tough? Salim Malik did chase 77 in 6 overs in the 80s. This is T20 era.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I dont think IND NRR is as good as u think. IF BANG win IND. ENG beat NZ, PAK dont play with intent against BANG and get hammered.

Bang can surpass IND NRR

India can still beat SL and go forward. YOu seriously think INdia will lose to SL and BD?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Wi lost the game by being bowled out going for a win

They didnt score 23 off the last 5 overs and preserve their wkts like india did

We didnot get bowled out. We got as close we could to keep our NRR fine.

 

[Grunge101]

Waqar isnt someone who will impulsively say something without knowing the evidence behind it.

I for one have no issues with how India played yesterday being a Pak fan. We need to make it through on our own and thats it. Period.

But that doesnt mean everyone has to somehow wear a blindfold and not see the obvious bizarreness of that match.

100 to get in last 10 with 3 eickets down and you lose comprehensively losing only 2 more wickets. Last 31 balls saw two specialist batsmen score 3 fours, 1 six, 7 singles and 20 dots. If that was actually them giving their best, then God help team India next time they need quick runs at the end..

 

[Varun]

Dhoni basically does some calculation in his head, figures out a match can't be won and then stops trying.

Lame. Hit out or get out.

 

[gazza619]

Whatever it was by India, it was not attractive to watch and didnt suit a team who is supposedly one of the favourites to win the Cup.

 

[Usman Chadda]

That is not true. India is very much capable of chasing if these two click. They did click. INdia was not really far away from the target when there was a lull created by Dhoni. Having spent IPL for 1.5 months 70 odd in 6 overs is tough? Salim Malik did chase 77 in 6 overs in the 80s. This is T20 era.

No. Sharma and Kohli left the guys coming in too much to do. Also, you have below average batsmen in your team. You were never within a shout of this total. India just does not have a strong batting line-up nowadays.

Dhawan being injured sealed it for you. You are not going to do anything in the semis, if your bowling underperforms like this again.

 

[BaankeJi]

Whatever it was by India, it was not attractive to watch and didnt suit a team who is supposedly one of the favourites to win the Cup.

Agree. That is not even being debated.

 

[FreePalestine]

1. It was not 11 an over for the last 7, it was 11.85. If you are going to round off, it is 12 and not 11.

2. Pandya was playing and I don't think anyone who watched him play will say he wasn't trying. Repeated shots were cut off at the boundary.

3. NRR is also a consideration when it comes to the position in the group stage. Maybe Dhoni was trying to maximize the Indian innings score.

4. WI lost today by 23 runs, scoring only 23 runs in the last 5 overs compared to 39 by India yesterday. This is not unusual.

You mean when Sheldon Cottrell and Shannon Gabriel were batting? Is that the same as having your Jadhav and Dhoni at the crease?

Anyway, they made an attempt and got closer to the target than India did, so the NRR thing still doesn’t make sense. Even if India had been all out on the ball Pandya got out, India would have to lose remaining games by 63 runs and Bangladesh (I think) would have to win against PK and India by over 63 runs... That is a pretty big margin when you could have still potentially won the game and got straight into the semis if you had gone for it. India have won from more difficult positions in the past.

Pandya was going great guns and all of a sudden stopped hitting, off Rashid of all people!

Anyway, thanks for some legitimate questions. First ones I’ve had this whole thread. I am done discussing this game.

 

[Napa]

Wi lost the game by being bowled out going for a win

They didnt score 23 off the last 5 overs and preserve their wkts like india did

So WI score 23 last 5 overs while losing wickets, while India scores 39 against a superior bowling attack while not losing wickets.

Indian batsmen score 70% more runs without losing wickets and that is supposed to be less effort?

Also remember that the next batsman in was Yadav, not exactly the second coming of Bradman.

 

[Mp812]

SRI LANKA can win against the Buzdils... I mean IND

Sure and England can win vs NZ by a close margin

 

[shockbound]

Should also question PCT how they bundled out for 105 against WI - a team that couldn't manage a single win in 9 matches apart from that match against Pakistan.

Something really suspicious there, don't you think?

Early days, lack of preparation, many core players were coming in after gaps.


and Pakistan is not consistent like India.

 

[Bhaijaan]

This is what separates Vikki The Jatt from Wasim Akram who is too sophisticated to address these things. Wasim Akram is almost a foreigner. Vikki The Jatt speaks from his heart. Sometimes he looks pendu doing that but most times he’s bang on target.

Always follow your instinct

Bhaijaan

 

[DHONI183]

Just thought I´d share my pre-match analysis......

I´ve a feeling that if it´s a flat track with no assistance for any kind of bowling, and if it´s a clear-your-leg-and-smash-the-ball kind of pitch, then England are running away with this on Sunday. However, if the pitch requires application of brains from the batsmen, and if it assists any type of bowling, whether it be pace or spin bowling, India are in with a serious chance to topple England.

^ http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-Pre-Match-Discussion&p=10376359#post10376359 ^

And exactly this is what happened I´m afraid. England are just way too ahead of others in the modern way of batting in cricket. Only a testing pitch can stand in their way - or perhaps an almost explosive Australian batting line-up.

 

[the Great Khan]

So match fixing and ball tempering is all hallmark of class and integrity.
I am happy our standards are not that high. We scored 306 chasing 337, lost 1st wicket on 0, people questioning our integrity and class,

more whataboutery. As if India hasnt ever fixed. the scourge of fixing is because of the gambling culture in your country. But thats a totally different discussion. Amir was convicted and served time in prison. Nobody else in this team has been convicted or been accused of tampering or fixing so lets move on.

Coming to class and integrity. yes you scream to the rafters that you are the greatest and are superstars and the world revolves around your team but you simply cant get past little pakistan. It was as clear as day what was going on.

Now heres a question for you, if this was the equation in a semi final would dhoni have tuk tuked his way on? rubbish..this is a player who can hit quick fire fifities and is a big hitter and he didnt even bother..I wonder why..

also considering his recent jongoistic history he is a prime suspect for this sort of neech hurkat.

 

[DHONI183]

Thinking deep into this from a more logical angle, I can´t see how India intentionally lost the match to oust Pakistan from the tournament. Here´s why.....

The team to qualify as the first from the table will play in the semi-final the fourth to qualify. Now, what that means after India´s loss is that India have a couple of matches left, one today against Bangladesh and then another against Sri Lanka, and Autralia have just one more to go, against South Africa. If both these teams will all of their remaining matches, which is very, very likely to happen, Australia will clinch the first spot, and India the second.

Now, if England beat New Zealand tomorrow, which again has great chances of happening, then New Zealand are very likely to qualify ahead of Pakistan as the fourth team based on their (good) net run-rate. So, in this case, India would´ve shot in its foot by electing deliberately to face England in the first semi-final! The theory of them having lost deliberately would´ve made more sense if for example it would´ve increased their chances of playing New Zealand ahead of Pakistan in the semi-final. This would´ve somewhat made sense, but how on earth could they´ve chosen to face a dangerous, in fact, tournament´s most dangerous team, ahead of Pakistan? I don´t deny the possibility of such dirty politics in sports, but I surely can´t, and never have, seen a team play such foolish politics in sports.

If however, India had come to this tournament to only eliminate Pakistan from it, then job well done I´d say. If however, they´re here with a dream to win the World Cup, then it was massively foolish on their part to have lost Sunday´s match deliberately. I´d be hugely surprised if they indeed did so! Fair enough, a team with a positive mind-set and with ambitions to win the World Cup wouldn´t and shouldn´t bother about whom they´ll face in knock-out matches, but no team on earth deliberately elects themselves the tournament´s red hot favourites over a team which is winning its league matches just by a whisker.

If I´ve got my mathematics and calculations wrong, someone please correct me here. I wouldn´t mind being corrected here.

 

[akkers]

Guys I am surprised how you are all getting worked up and supporting India, Pakistan and the rest and trying to fighting the corner.
In a nutshell, a sportsperson has to perform at his/her best and try to WIN at all times, no matter what the circumstances. Thats what us, the spactators and TV viewers, pay them for. If they do not try to win and play some silly games then we are being short-changed and the ethos sport is being abused. If we say its ok in this instance then it will happen again and again and we will wasting our monies even more.
Think about it.

 

[ak619]

Guys I am surprised how you are all getting worked up and supporting India, Pakistan and the rest and trying to fighting the corner.
In a nutshell, a sportsperson has to perform at his/her best and try to WIN at all times, no matter what the circumstances. Thats what us, the spactators and TV viewers, pay them for. If they do not try to win and play some silly games then we are being short-changed and the ethos sport is being abused. If we say its ok in this instance then it will happen again and again and we will wasting our monies even more.
Think about it.

It's happened many times before. Maybe you're too young.

And the objective is to win the WC. That's the big picture. Every team is free to plan as they fit to lift the trophy.

 

[princeuk]

I dont know if India threw the match or not but just watching them opening the batting and then finishing it off there was certainly lack of intent, I mean 3 maidens up front from Woakes when chasing a massive total does get me to scratch my head, so its not just Dhoni who is to blame.

Say what you will but from certain palyers in the Indian side there wasnt that that Intent and i have made peace with that....you feel sorry for the fans who go out and fork out lots of money to watch their stars, its them who deserve better.

 

[akkers]

Not really, I have been involved in cricket and football for last 50 yrs. I have always understood that a sportperson has to win every game, every round, every tournament. If that does not happen then the the ethos of sprt goes out of window and paying public is misled.
Losing one game to win another - yes its happened before. But at what cost? At the cost of bringing the game down?
The Dhonis, Amirs, the rest....will come and go but the game has to survive.
I, for one, will never condone such behaviour and see it as blatant cheating. I am forf the beautiful game, not for any particular team or player.

 

[big_gamer007]

Another expert who doesn't know anything about Indian team and still thinks Indian batting is our strongest point.

If waqar watched today's match he should publically come out and apologize to Indian public for hinting at conspiracy.

 

[MP2011]

Indian batting is simply incompetent to score big totals consistently.

 

[Snowflake]

Another expert who doesn't know anything about Indian team and still thinks Indian batting is our strongest point.

If waqar watched today's match he should publically come out and apologize to Indian public for hinting at conspiracy.

Never hinted at conspiracy but only sportsmanship. Giving up when the target is achievable is nothing but poor sportsmanship. Waqar is spot on.

 

[cricket.mad]

Did Waqar tweet anything about india’s Batting today

 

[big_gamer007]

Never hinted at conspiracy but only sportsmanship. Giving up when the target is achievable is nothing but poor sportsmanship. Waqar is spot on.

Another one who still doesn't understand. They didn't give up, they are not capable enough to get to the target.

That's the difference. If you Watched today's match and Indian cricket in general for last few years you would have already known it..

All this poor sportsmanship and conspiracy theories are from people who don't watch Indian cricket or can't comprehend where Indian middle order stands.

 

[akkers]

We watch all cricket, including club and junior cricket. We have enough sense to figure out malpractice when it happens. You may be really clever but we are not stupid.
BAD SPORTSMANSHIP - simple.

 

[OmaIR1]

Of course not, I would not have accepted this effort. But this game was not even a semi, let alone a final. The point is that it also is in India's favor if they score 300+ as it will help them in the next game against England.

No need to slog blindly and chase an impossible RRR of 14+, rather get a decent score to be mentally at a better place the next time they meet England.

This game came down to the toss. If India won the toss it would have scored 330+ and England would be under pressure.

Now you can answer my earlier question. How many teams have won an ODI when the RRR was 14+ in the last 5 overs? What percentage of these have been victories?

Except that this was not a KO match. So why are you even bringing up this comparison. If India does something like this in a KO, the we can talk.

Secondly, you're right. India could have been all out for 285. Which would have hurt our NRR. If the batsmen decided that they are not good enough to hit sixes and thus wants to play full 50 overs to reduce the margin of defeat to save the NRR, then that's their decision.

The team will do what's in their own best interest. If as a result of that, Pakistan gets knocked out (which is still not the case, btw) then that's too bad.

But thats on Pakistan. Not India. The team will play as it sees fit. Not according to how some other team wants them to play.

You both are saying the same thing which is case in point - India showed no INTENT to win the game. I'm glad we all agree on this point!

Trying to make sure their NRR is high? For what? To make sure India made it to the SFs? That's laughable! Even if they lost to BOTH Bangladesh and SL (which would never happen) they would remain at 11 points. And as a worst case NZ, India and Pakistan could all end up with 11 points. Pakistan has the worst NRR so there is no way India would be knocked out. Unless they lost to BOTH Bangladesh and SL by 150 runs in each game there is no way their place in the SFs would be threatened by the NRR. And if they did lose by 150 runs each against those two then minimizing the runs loss against England wouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things anyway.

Or was it to make sure they stay number 1 on the table? Again, that doesn't make sense because to do that they need to win against both Bangladesh and SL so NRR would never come into play for the number 1 spot. It's strictly points based for team India when it comes to rankings on the points table for #1.

And Napa, I don't need to answer your question because it's not relevant, I never said India would 100% win if they showed intent. Playing to win should be the number 1 priority and they didn't do that for some reason. Maybe they had Pakistan on their mind? Who knows.

 

[Hasan123]

It is not Indias fault we are in this situation.

 

[saintgrace]

It was not lack of intent but it was lack of skill from Dhoni and Jadhav. Dhoni is spent force and can't hit for life. Jadhav is runa ball kind of batsman. he should play at no 4.

 

[austerlitz]

We didn't throw it,we would have preferred pak over engalnd which is a far more dangerous team.Its just that we had 2 **** batsmen dhoni and kedar who have no hitting power and negative mentality on a slowing track.These 2 are on their last legs and have been suspect as dud burdens for some time now.Its only now that pak fans got a taste of what indian fans have feared for over a year.