Statistical metrics for determination of ATG status

[Shutdown Corner]

What are some easily identifiable statistical metrics to determine which players are all time greats?

Easily identifiable rules out useful, but subjective or hard-to-gather data like "runs scored under pressure".

Using 4 or 5 metrics means that a player with one weakness or flaw can still make it up. But if you fail in 2 areas, it basically consigns one to being mediocre (on the list of ATGs that is).

This is what I have so far:

- alien conditions: how well players from IND/PAK/SL/WI/BD perform in AUS/ENG/SA/NZ/ZIM and vice versa

- a player's average relative to the all time average (everyone gets measured against the same standard)

- a player's weighted average against the relative strength of the teams he played against in his era (some eras may feature stronger batsmen or bowlers than others)

- how well batsmen batted in the 4th innings and bowlers bowled in the 1st innings (the best aproximation for performances in critical and/or tough conditions)

- value: a player's average with regard to both his teammates and the opposition he played against (standardizes for different pitch conditions)

Any thoughts?

 

[Buffet]

What are some easily identifiable statistical metrics to determine which players are all time greats?

Easily identifiable rules out useful, but subjective or hard-to-gather data like "runs scored under pressure".

Using 4 or 5 metrics means that a player with one weakness or flaw can still make it up. But if you fail in 2 areas, it basically consigns one to being mediocre (on the list of ATGs that is).

This is what I have so far:

- alien conditions: how well players from IND/PAK/SL/WI/BD perform in AUS/ENG/SA/NZ/ZIM and vice versa

- a player's average relative to the all time average (everyone gets measured against the same standard)

- a player's weighted average against the relative strength of the teams he played against in his era (some eras may feature stronger batsmen or bowlers than others)

- how well batsmen batted in the 4th innings and bowlers bowled in the 1st innings (the best aproximation for performances in critical and/or tough conditions)

- value: a player's average with regard to both his teammates and the opposition he played against (standardizes for different pitch conditions)

Any thoughts?

80-90% of tests are won or lost in 1st inning by both sides. Scoring heavily in 1st/2nd inning has higher impact. ATG is also about influencing result.

WI may have some similarities, but a lot different than Asian conditions. If I recall it right, only one Asian side has won series there. If conditions were close enough to be bracketed with Asian countries, I would expect more Asian sides to win series in WI.

 

[Bilal7]

What is up with this obsession around the so-called "ATG" status? Pretty sure most of these ATGs are not familiar with this term and have never used it themselves.

Having said that, it's very easy to spot a fantastic player by having a quick look at his stats. All one needs to look for is:

- The overall average, number of runs/wickets, 100s, five-fors, etc.
- Their average and/or SR in individual countries, specifically the big ones like Australia, England, India, South Africa, Pakistan/UAE, etc.
- The stats during their peak because that is what the player was capable of at their absolute best.

Any player that has great overall numbers (which are an average of 50 or close to that for a batsman and an average of 25 or close to that for a bowler), performances all around the world and a superb peak is an "ATG".

If one scores highly in all three respects, they are a bonafide icon of the game and you don't need to have watched them play to know this.

 

[JibranAnsari]

The players who better than their counterparts in their respective generations.

 

[MenInG]

Personally speaking - I look at each player per his performance in the last 3-6 games - ATG sounds great but with rankings etc it is not what you have done in the past (last 10 years) that bothers me any more.

 

[Ultimate]

Batsmen:

Average of above 50 in Test cricket, and above 40 in ODI cricket. But add to it, impressive performances against a best bowling attack, plus some clutch knocks, in tough conditions or tough situations.

Bowlers:

Average of 23 or under in both ODI and Test cricket. To add to it, in Test cricket, a match winning spell against a best team is must. While, in ODI cricket, a World Cup win is a must.