Tactically and Fitness wise India is far superior to Pakistan

[Savak]

India's use of the short ball with the fielders in the right place testifies to this.

Not a single Indian player struggled with cramps whereas the fittest players in Pakistan including an 18 year old Naseem struggled badly with cramps.

Serious lack of professionalism in the Pakistani players and team think tank. IPL has enabled the modernization of the Indian Cricket system from the grass roots to the Indian team where you have to be supremely fit and must be very professional in your approach to the gym and must have good game awareness to make the Indian team.

In comparison the PSL has not made such a big difference. The likes of Sharjeel, Azam still get picked inspite of attricious fitness levels, these two players would not be selected for a local mohala team in India with such a pathetic lazy attitude towards fitness.

Khushdil and Asif Ali would not be selected for long either if they didn't show improved mental toughness, technique improvement and game awareness.

 

[Shafi]

They are far superior than us in skill, talent and intelligence wise as well. If Babar & Rizwan fail against Hong King, we will loose that match as well.

 

[Snowflake]

Naive to think that the physical requirements to bowl 135kph are the same as those for 145kph+

Our bowlers struggled because the way they bowl takes A LOT more effort! Naseem can run in all day and bowl at Bhuvaneshwar's pace.

Yes, overall Indian players' fitness is better, but citing the example of cramps is totally illogical.

 

[Savak]

Naive to think that the physical requirements to bowl 135kph are the same as those for 145kph+

Our bowlers struggled because the way they bowl takes A LOT more effort! Naseem can run in all day and bowl at Bhuvaneshwar's pace.

Yes, overall Indian players' fitness is better, but citing the example of cramps is totally illogical.

Pandya and Avesh were consistently bowling at 140 km/hr plus

 

[Ashmal]

Pandya and Avesh were consistently bowling at 140 km/hr plus

It gets more humid at night

 

[Major]

lol you clearly haven't played sports in pakistani weather....

Cramps take place when you place in hot humid weather. It has nothing to do with fitness, infact, people who train more are more prone to cramps due to muscle fatigue. These guys are playing in UAE in august coming straight from netherlands where the weather was cool.

Also, Rizwan batted the innings for 10+ overs along with keeping in the same match. Naseem and Harris are pace bowlers, they use more energy than any trudller out there. The more energy you put in this weather the more prone to cramps you are.

You are comparing these players with a team that had trudlers as their pacers who barely used any energy to bowl. Its like comparing Shoaib Akhtar's bowling routine with Yasir Arafats.

Lol, pakistani cricket fans now want players to be dropped for cramping in UAE in August

 

[Gayle_Force]

Fitness wise yes India is definitely superior. Only a Rohit Sharma looks out of shape. Everyone else is probably way ahead.

Tactically I am not so sure. India had the advantage of winning the toss and had the luxury of only chasing 147 but they still made a meal of it.

 

[Major]

Pandya and Avesh were consistently bowling at 140 km/hr plus

You are misusing the word consistently. Avesh might had gotten one or two deliveries at 140, he was bowling consistently at 130kph.

Naseem maintained himself above 140 and was touching 145. Harris was touching at 150kph. [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] made a thread on it aswel

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?307176-ACC-Asia-Cup-2022-Speedwatch

 

[Swing]

Yes the BCCI has more money to dump into their players and a larger selection pool to begin with.

On the other hand Pakistani cricketers are yet to make some personal sacrifices to their lifestyle and focus on their diet and fitness like serious professionals. The mindset of Pakistani cricket is obviously way more lax than say, the Kiwis, and because of that we have a lot more fitness problems in our players particularly our pacers who I feel are never properly preserved and just made to run in till they break down and lose their careers.

That being said, Naseem was bowling in some hot and humid weather, it happens sometimes.

 

[Firebat]

Naseem Shah has bowled 2037 balls across 13 Tests so far in his short career. Are we supposed to think he's not fit enough for a 4-over spell in a T20I? Seems logical to assume there were extenuating circumstances here for poor fitness.

 

[Ghazinator1313]

The knee-jerk reactions here are absurd. Pakistan played a very bad game and still pulled it off. We have some key takeaways from this game and as long as the adjustments are made, we will be okay. It was India's day today and little things went their way, giving them the win. Overall, this was a good effort by Pakistan. The biggest positive here is the progress from the deer caught in the headlights look our players had just a few years back to being a competitive unit against the best.

 

[Savak]

I was highlighted weaknesses in our cricket system, structure, mindset. I wasn't calling for anyone to be dropped.

 

[Major]

Also fitness isn't the job of PCB, its the job of the cricketer himself to fix his fitness

 

[Savak]

Also fitness isn't the job of PCB, its the job of the cricketer himself to fix his fitness

The PCB can set standards ie these are the minimum standards everyone must adhere too and meet to be selected

 

[Snowflake]

Pandya and Avesh were consistently bowling at 140 km/hr plus

Pandya rare deliveries were 140+ (I might be wrong)... It's still very different to consistently 145+

 

[MenInG]

Sachin got it spot-on

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It came down to fitness of the fast bowlers while put under pressure, though both teams’ pacers bowled well upfront.<br><br>Crucial knock by Hardik to stay till the end & get us over the line & ably supported by <a href="https://twitter.com/imjadeja?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@imjadeja</a> & Virat.<br><br>Congrats &#55356;&#56814;&#55356;&#56819; on a nail-biting win.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvsPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvsPAK</a> <a href="https://t.co/dYhiaa3Omh">pic.twitter.com/dYhiaa3Omh</a></p>— Sachin Tendulkar (@sachin_rt) <a href="https://twitter.com/sachin_rt/status/1563960423329644544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 28, 2022</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[basitmian]

Had Pakistan won the toss, would this even be a concern?

 

[jnaveen1980]

lol Chahal/Prasidh/Rohit/Pant these guys are not exactly fit guys. Hardik/Kohli are probably exceptions. Rest are so so. Don't over analyze T20 results. Pakistan's over-reliance on top 3 was exposed. That's it. Nothing else.

 

[adi_62941]

It seems like whenever harris and naseem are bowling, they are putting so much extra energy which was not required. In T20, bowler has to be very tactical rather fast and furious. You can run fast but can also make use of slower balls to save some energy in these humid conditions.
Overall, indian team is composed of such versatile and tactically sound players that they know where to put their energy and how to utilize their skills at right time.

 

[adi_62941]

It is proved that pakistan team is totally banking on three stars babar, rizwan and shaheen. If any one of them performs, then only pakistan can win otherwise we look like some c grade team coming right after playing gully cricket.
Its very scary situation

 

[Marooned]

Naseem Shah has bowled 2037 balls across 13 Tests so far in his short career. Are we supposed to think he's not fit enough for a 4-over spell in a T20I? Seems logical to assume there were extenuating circumstances here for poor fitness.

Loool ikr!

Reason died long time ago around here but it's still surprising to imagine people can be so boneheaded.

 

[pratiktc]

We are talking about tactics but both teams were so poor with over rate despite bowling 6-8 ovs of spin.

Twitter analysts were hyping India's new aggressive approach with bat but their top 4 led them to 9 ovs 53/3.

Analysts were also hyping Rizwan batting avg but he batted 7 ovs for just 43 runs. Atleast Ifti chacha pulled trigger and tried to go for hits.

Bowlers from both teams overperformed and stretched match into a contest fighting against their own teams pathetic batting and inefficient captaincy which hamstrung them with extra circle fielders in death.

 

[MenInG]

Naseem Shah has bowled 2037 balls across 13 Tests so far in his short career. Are we supposed to think he's not fit enough for a 4-over spell in a T20I? Seems logical to assume there were extenuating circumstances here for poor fitness.

Of course he is fit but for this tournament, either not enough recovery time was allowed after nets etc or something else is wrong

 

[Titan24]

Of course he is fit but for this tournament, either not enough recovery time was allowed after nets etc or something else is wrong

I believe they didn't prepare for the conditions well enough but, even Indian bowlers struggled a bit. Looks like humidity got worse as the match progressed and as you said maybe overdid the nets, training sessions.

Rizwan and Haris also faced the issues so something as a unit that needs to be looked at. Need to be better prepared as you cant control the humidity but, you know its going to be there in UAE in this season.

While Naseem is fine, I wont mind him resting vs Hong Kong as he has been playing all 3 formats in last couple of months. Him and Shaheen need to be kept fresh and fit going forwards as well, difference between these two and rest is a lot as it stands currently.

 

[MenInG]

I believe they didn't prepare for the conditions well enough but, even Indian bowlers struggled a bit. Looks like humidity got worse as the match progressed and as you said maybe overdid the nets, training sessions.

Rizwan and Haris also faced the issues so something as a unit that needs to be looked at. Need to be better prepared as you cant control the humidity but, you know its going to be there in UAE in this season.

While Naseem is fine, I wont mind him resting vs Hong Kong as he has been playing all 3 formats in last couple of months. Him and Shaheen need to be kept fresh and fit going forwards as well, difference between these two and rest is a lot as it stands currently.

Problem with such cramps etc is that in the adrenalin rush, bowlers like Naseem can end up with another injury as they push themselves to the limit.

 

[Titan24]

Problem with such cramps etc is that in the adrenalin rush, bowlers like Naseem can end up with another injury as they push themselves to the limit.

Absolutely. Naseem and Shaheen both take it to the limits. Some work for Dr Najebullah Soomro to be done who is with the team.

 

[MenInG]

Absolutely. Naseem and Shaheen both take it to the limits. Some work for Dr Najebullah Soomro to be done who is with the team.

With the cramp, NS bowled a good bouncer also - at that point I was very worried.

 

[Titan24]

With the cramp, NS bowled a good bouncer also - at that point I was very worried.

Yes, just after the 6 from Jadeja he knew he had to push a bit more despite the pain and did that with such a pacy short one. That really showed the kind of temperament he is and how mentally tough he is.

 

[the Great Khan]

I think we are being very harsh. I thought we played a great t20 match yesterday. We lost because we have two rubbish players in khushdil and asif. Why we haven't brought faheem is anybodys guess. He would have been good on this pitch and an extra alrounder. Couldn't have done worse.

With all due respect to India we nearly beat them. The hype was just that. I didn't think they were very impressive other than Pandya who was the main difference. Their batting looks long in the tooth to be Frank and the young bowlers were okay..

Our problem is the middle order..we can't have both asif and khusdil..also they were clearly rusty..we have only played 1 t20 in ages. But took them to the wire and now cricinfo makes it out like they won a big final.

If the middle two idiots had gotten us 10 or 15 more we would have won this. Khushdils shot was a gully cricketer shot..I mean just leave the short ball..why were they taking them on? Ifti couldn't middle the ball but at least he helped stabilise the innings..

Fitness we found it hard but then pur bowlers were all.running in at full pelt all bowling 140 plus clicks. India just had a t20 series so were not as undercooked.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan was tactically bizarre as well. Rahul/Kohli/Rohit none of them were going to dominate left arm spinners upfront. So one or two overs could have been used inside the powerplay.

 

[sweep_shot]

This is probably true.

India nowadays focus a lot on fitness. Also, their tactical decisions tend to be good.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistan makes selection and on field tactical decisions which are based Cricviz analytics and have done so since before the last World T20. It's bizarre to say that India are ahead tactically.

Fitness wise, they were fielding better than we were.

Qq

 

[Champ_Pal]

Its not fitness. Its the paltry 147 that Pak made that was the reason for the loss. Once Babar was gone, it was game over for Pakistan.

But the way Naseem was struggling after delivery stride was almost Hollywoodesque. I felt I was watching some sports movie.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Pakistan makes selection and on field tactical decisions which are based Cricviz analytics and have done so since before the last World T20. It's bizarre to say that India are ahead tactically.

Fitness wise, they were fielding better than we were.

Qq

Indian fielding yesterday was pathetic. Very ordinary to say the least.

 

[Ashmal]

Pakistan makes selection and on field tactical decisions which are based Cricviz analytics and have done so since before the last World T20. It's bizarre to say that India are ahead tactically.

Fitness wise, they were fielding better than we were.

Qq

India are more methodical & calculative....while Pakistan are mostly impulsive in their decision-making

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Indian fielding yesterday was pathetic. Very ordinary to say the least.

Yeah. Especially chahal. First time I'm seeing a Pakistan side fielding significantly better than we do.

 

[Local.Dada]

Indian fielding yesterday was pathetic. Very ordinary to say the least.

One thing where india is better is the catching. I do agree both sides were ordinary in the field yesterday. However Pandya and Jadeja is a notch above every other Pakistan fielder with the exception of Shadab. Add Kohli the outfielder that’s a better but overall in world context we are an average fielding unit.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

One thing where india is better is the catching. I do agree both sides were ordinary in the field yesterday. However Pandya and Jadeja is a notch above every other Pakistan fielder with the exception of Shadab. Add Kohli the outfielder that’s a better but overall in world context we are an average fielding unit.

We have a couple of outstanding fielders but as a unit Pakistam were better.

 

[Marooned]

Pakistan was tactically bizarre as well. Rahul/Kohli/Rohit none of them were going to dominate left arm spinners upfront. So one or two overs could have been used inside the powerplay.

Nah. I think babar was spot on

With a small total he knew his best bet was wickets at the start so he decided to go as agressive as he possibly could by starting with 6 overs of pace.

In hindsight every decision can be argued but his motivation was completely understandable in this case.

 

[docteurmanish]

India are more methodical & calculative....while Pakistan are mostly impulsive in their decision-making

Accurate

The current team is full of specialists designated for certain key roles

Bhuvi - new ball and death
Chahal - middle overs
Jadeja - floating batter , floating bowler outside of power plays
Ashwin - power play , left handers and late order floater batter
Rohit - opener and aggressor
Rahul - opener / no 3 / wicket keeper , anchor and late aggressor
Arshdeep - death overs specialist , new ball incumbent ; swings both ways
Karthick - specialist no 6-7 , last 4 overs batter
Pant , sky - middle order muscle .
Kohli - no 3 , ideal for australia if in form . Takes on pace better than spin .
Avesh - middle orders back of length tall hard length bowler

India has been selecting teams based on opposition and pitch. Also rotation of players with emphasis on like for like . It’s madness and method .

Pakistan team is more into pace bowling rather than which pace bowler is suited more for what conditions

India has not picked siraj , Shami , krishna , porel and sen - all are 140 range bowlers . Backups like chahar , axar , sundar are always on standby . Hooda , Ayer , sampson are all like for like replacements .

India will win a lot more tournaments with this policy coupled with aggression in first batting .
Of course , a shaheen can ruin the party but it will be interesting to see if india brings in pant as opener against shaheen to negate left arm angle a bit .

 

[MP2011]

Yeah. Especially chahal. First time I'm seeing a Pakistan side fielding significantly better than we do.

Chahal has always been bad in field and with bat. Whenever he doesn't bowl well, which happens quite often, he is a total liability for us.

 

[Mean&Green]

There is a major difference when you bowl at 130 kph and trundle and than bowling some balls at 148 kph but cramps happen because of not enough water intake and not eating the right food so that could be related to the diet not fitness as the Pakistani lot are extremely fit as well if not fitter than most of Indian players.

 

[Gayle_Force]

Accurate

The current team is full of specialists designated for certain key roles

Bhuvi - new ball and death
Chahal - middle overs
Jadeja - floating batter , floating bowler outside of power plays
Ashwin - power play , left handers and late order floater batter
Rohit - opener and aggressor
Rahul - opener / no 3 / wicket keeper , anchor and late aggressor
Arshdeep - death overs specialist , new ball incumbent ; swings both ways
Karthick - specialist no 6-7 , last 4 overs batter
Pant , sky - middle order muscle .
Kohli - no 3 , ideal for australia if in form . Takes on pace better than spin .
Avesh - middle orders back of length tall hard length bowler

India has been selecting teams based on opposition and pitch. Also rotation of players with emphasis on like for like . It’s madness and method .

Pakistan team is more into pace bowling rather than which pace bowler is suited more for what conditions

India has not picked siraj , Shami , krishna , porel and sen - all are 140 range bowlers . Backups like chahar , axar , sundar are always on standby . Hooda , Ayer , sampson are all like for like replacements .

India will win a lot more tournaments with this policy coupled with aggression in first batting .
Of course , a shaheen can ruin the party but it will be interesting to see if india brings in pant as opener against shaheen to negate left arm angle a bit .

Most of the players in the list have played for India for a number of years so in theory India should be dominating T20 cricket for a better part of last five years. This has not happened so that should make you think. India is a great white ball cricket team but let’s not make them out to be like the Aussies of the 90s and early 00s.

Also, tbh a number of players in your post are just average players and you can find similar players in most of the top 8 teams. I will say though that India is blessed with 3-4 real world class match winners, which is what sets them apart.

 

[shariqnoor]

Its not easy adjusting from 20 degree weather to 50 degree weather within a week. I would give the team management a pass on this one. I can't remember the last time I saw multiple Pakistan fast bowlers going down with cramps in a single match. These guys have played in the UAE for a long time and nothing of this sort has happened before. Could be a one-off. We don't need to slag anyone.

 

[Saj]

If you compare the head coaches too, India has a clear advantage in terms of experience, game awareness, technical knowledge and plans.

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

Unlike 2016 and 2018 Asia cups, the gulf between the sides have reduced significantly. Pakistan has improved a lot in terms of fielding and batting is slowly inching towards modern day batting standards. Selectors are to be blamed for the painful middle order.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Diet and fitness isn't something majority of our cricketers take seriously or even believe in.

Malik and Riaz are two guys who do so and their shape is something to begrudge for guys 10-15 younger than them.

 

[MenInG]

As per media reports regarding fitness:

The tour management committee had a detailed meeting on the matter after multiple injuries were reported among the players.

 

[shamaan]

Pandya and Avesh were consistently bowling at 140 km/hr plus

Avesh bowled 2 overs !

 

[shamaan]

The PCB can set standards ie these are the minimum standards everyone must adhere too and meet to be selected

And what if they are meeting them standards?

 

[MP2011]

There is a major difference when you bowl at 130 kph and trundle and than bowling some balls at 148 kph but cramps happen because of not enough water intake and not eating the right food so that could be related to the diet not fitness as the Pakistani lot are extremely fit as well if not fitter than most of Indian players.

If those 130 KMPH trundlers are making us win, then why not? We'll keep our trundlers.

 

[MenInG]

If those 130 KMPH trundlers are making us win, then why not? We'll keep our trundlers.

Exactly.

And If Pakistan bowlers cannot bowl fast under these conditions then lets get Sohail Tanvir back.

 

[jnaveen1980]

There is a major difference when you bowl at 130 kph and trundle and than bowling some balls at 148 kph but cramps happen because of not enough water intake and not eating the right food so that could be related to the diet not fitness as the Pakistani lot are extremely fit as well if not fitter than most of Indian players.

Pandya was not bowling at 130 kph. Many of his deliveries in excess of 140 kph. Shami even in tests maintains that speed for long. Reason they bowl at 135 kph is because they were never express bowlers to begin with. Not because they lacked "stamina". Fitness does not equate to "muscles". It equates to stamina and flexibility. Body flexibility is very very vital for fast bowlers.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

India have been a top of the table team (despite choking).

Pakistan, on the other hand, are have been a middle table team.

It is what it is.

Only difference I see is: Pakistan sometimes go toe to toe against a superior rival thanks to individual brilliance. But as a team Aussies, Indians or English are in a different league.

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

I'll say matches in aug in UAE are a recipe for cramps, dehydratin, injuries and disaster. All teams bench strenght will be tested as the tournament deepens. I donot visualize 11 same players who played their first matches to be turning up for the finals, with injuries playing a massive part in their absenses.

 

[Local.Dada]

India have been a top of the table team (despite choking).

Pakistan, on the other hand, are have been a middle table team.

It is what it is.

Only difference I see is: Pakistan sometimes go toe to toe against a superior rival thanks to individual brilliance. But as a team Aussies, Indians or English are in a different league.

India, Eng and Aus are level 1. Strong boards, a method to the madness and a strong + accountable system in place.

Pak, SA and Nzl are level 2. They can absolutely smash the top teams on their day but will not go too far. A lot of inconsistencies and other issues that holds them below their potential like lack of resources in Nzl, quota system in SA and all the circus that happens in Pak cricket.

WI is level 3. You never know what they will do but won’t be surprised if they beat or lose to any team.

SL, Bang, Afghan are level 4: can beat good teams in favorable conditons once in a while.

Ire. Zim, Ned, sco are level 5 : might get that rare upset.

Rest like Hongkong, USA etc are not even worth discussing

 

[MenInG]

Rizwan speaking in presser:

"As far as fitness is concerned, cramps can occur at any time and you cannot say that just because I am super fit, I won't get cramps; Sometimes you get cramps due to excess of water in your body, or sometimes due to lack of it; I'd like to thank our physios and staff as they are going above and beyond to help us and provide what we need in this case"

 

[Mamoon]

India is far superior in all metrics. Talent, skill, mentality, fitness, tactics etc. They played with a plan even though they didn’t execute it to perfection (with the bat) but Pakistan had no plan.

When Pakistan were put to bat, Babar and Rizwan’s heads were in the clouds. They were still in the 152-0 mode. Rizwan was not even watching the ball in the first couple of overs.

Indian think tank learned their lesson after the World T20 game and targeted the weak areas of the pair, both were badly exposed including Babar. They kept bowling bouncers because they knew our batsmen cannot handle them.

Pakistan on the other hand had no plan with the ball. They were just hoping for a miracle and some good fortune. Rahul’s wicket jolted India but it wasn’t planned, it was a stroke of luck.

On another day, that inside edge could have trickled to the boundary and India would have cantered to 8 or 9 wicket win. Everything India did was with a purpose, including promoted Jadeja. As I said, the execution was somewhat lacking, but you can’t fault their mindset.

When Pandya walked to the crease, you could see his confidence. In his mind, he was almost certain he would take India home. Even in the last over when when Jadeja got out and Pandya played a couple of dots, you could see the belief in his eyes.

At no point was there any doubt in his body language and that had an impact on Pakistan as well. There was a big difference between Pandya and Nawaz’s body language. At no point did Nawaz feel that he had any chance of winning that battle.

Pandya is the new Dhoni. He has taken the mantle. He is going to finish countless matches for India over the next 5-6 years and will also be a successful captain. Anyone who doubts him - or has doubted him - does not know anything about cricket.

It was obvious right from his first year in international cricket that he is a special cricketer in the making, and now he is at the perfect age to his his peak.

He is at the same age as Dhoni was in 2008-09, and it was at that stage where he matured into a world class finisher and won India countless matches over the next 5-6 years, and that is what Pandya will do as well.

These are the type of players and characters that Pakistan lack. You would never see such confidence and self-belief in the likes of Asif Ali, Khushdil etc.

 

[MenInG]

India is far superior in all metrics. Talent, skill, mentality, fitness, tactics etc. They played with a plan even though they didn’t execute it to perfection (with the bat) but Pakistan had no plan.

When Pakistan were put to bat, Babar and Rizwan’s heads were in the clouds. They were still in the 152-0 mode. Rizwan was not even watching the ball in the first couple of overs.

Indian think tank learned their lesson after the World T20 game and targeted the weak areas of the pair, both were badly exposed including Babar. They kept bowling bouncers because they knew our batsmen cannot handle them.

Pakistan on the other hand had no plan with the ball. They were just hoping for a miracle and some good fortune. Rahul’s wicket jolted India but it wasn’t planned, it was a stroke of luck.

On another day, that inside edge could have trickled to the boundary and India would have cantered to 8 or 9 wicket win. Everything India did was with a purpose, including promoted Jadeja. As I said, the execution was somewhat lacking, but you can’t fault their mindset.

When Pandya walked to the crease, you could see his confidence. In his mind, he was almost certain he would take India home. Even in the last over when when Jadeja got out and Pandya played a couple of dots, you could see the belief in his eyes.

At no point was there any doubt in his body language and that had an impact on Pakistan as well. There was a big difference between Pandya and Nawaz’s body language. At no point did Nawaz feel that he had any chance of winning that battle.

Pandya is the new Dhoni. He has taken the mantle. He is going to finish countless matches for India over the next 5-6 years and will also be a successful captain. Anyone who doubts him - or has doubted him - does not know anything about cricket.

It was obvious right from his first year in international cricket that he is a special cricketer in the making, and now he is at the perfect age to his his peak.

He is at the same age as Dhoni was in 2008-09, and it was at that stage where he matured into a world class finisher and won India countless matches over the next 5-6 years, and that is what Pandya will do as well.

These are the type of players and characters that Pakistan lack. You would never see such confidence and self-belief in the likes of Asif Ali, Khushdil etc.

Wrong thread.

This is about fitness only.

 

[Mamoon]

Wrong thread.

This is about fitness only.

I think you need to read the title again.

“Tactically and Fitness wise….”

 

[MenInG]

I think you need to read the title again.

“Tactically and Fitness wise….”

ok I stand corrected but less of generic statements please.

 

[docteurmanish]

Most of the players in the list have played for India for a number of years so in theory India should be dominating T20 cricket for a better part of last five years. This has not happened so that should make you think. India is a great white ball cricket team but let’s not make them out to be like the Aussies of the 90s and early 00s.

Also, tbh a number of players in your post are just average players and you can find similar players in most of the top 8 teams. I will say though that India is blessed with 3-4 real world class match winners, which is what sets them apart.

Pandya has played a number of years . As has bhuvi .

India has not won icc tournaments but has been top 3 across all formats number of years . In tests it’s been dominating at home and been more competitive abroad than any current team

In odi and t20 , it has been dominating bilateral series .
Losses in icc tournaments are down to sometimes luck ( like the t20 World Cup bowling second last year all the time ) and to poor captaincy . India is rectifying that with Rohit , pant , pandya in captaincy roles ..

Having match winning batters and bowlers is the key but don’t forget the support cast . India lacked a good middle order support cast in limited overs cricket recently which led to icc tournament losses .

Sky pant pandya Karthick / sampson / Ayer are as good or fearsome middle order as any currently .

Avg players knowing their roles and performing is the key to success as star players need the avg players to perform . Bhuvi won the last match against pak and he is just avg but in good form . If he get injured , chahar is ready to replace him

Most teams struggle to get a like for like replacement . India holds the ace in this regard currently .

 

[moghul]

India's use of the short ball with the fielders in the right place testifies to this.

Not a single Indian player struggled with cramps whereas the fittest players in Pakistan including an 18 year old Naseem struggled badly with cramps.

Serious lack of professionalism in the Pakistani players and team think tank. IPL has enabled the modernization of the Indian Cricket system from the grass roots to the Indian team where you have to be supremely fit and must be very professional in your approach to the gym and must have good game awareness to make the Indian team.

In comparison the PSL has not made such a big difference. The likes of Sharjeel, Azam still get picked inspite of attricious fitness levels, these two players would not be selected for a local mohala team in India with such a pathetic lazy attitude towards fitness.

Khushdil and Asif Ali would not be selected for long either if they didn't show improved mental toughness, technique improvement and game awareness.

Just look at the physique of coaches of both teams and you will realize the fitness culture in both teams . Just on his awful fitness I won;t appoint Saqlain coach of a school team. I don;t buy this excuse of "bad knees", there is treatment for any knee problem if someone wants to.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

India's use of the short ball with the fielders in the right place testifies to this.

Not a single Indian player struggled with cramps whereas the fittest players in Pakistan including an 18 year old Naseem struggled badly with cramps.

Serious lack of professionalism in the Pakistani players and team think tank. IPL has enabled the modernization of the Indian Cricket system from the grass roots to the Indian team where you have to be supremely fit and must be very professional in your approach to the gym and must have good game awareness to make the Indian team.

In comparison the PSL has not made such a big difference. The likes of Sharjeel, Azam still get picked inspite of attricious fitness levels, these two players would not be selected for a local mohala team in India with such a pathetic lazy attitude towards fitness.

Khushdil and Asif Ali would not be selected for long either if they didn't show improved mental toughness, technique improvement and game awareness.

I remember before 2015 WC game in Australia, there were clips of India batters preparing for perceived threat of bounce from Md. Irfan by the ball thrower standing on the chair. Virat/Rohit/Raina etc all practiced
On one of the tv show on Geo Super, Sikandar Bakht, Sarfaraz Nawaz and Javed Miandad were making fun of Indian Think Tank and players. They were saying things like no matter what Indians do, Irfan will bounce them out and this is a useless trick Indians are employing.

Result, India's strategy and practice before the match paid dividends and Irfan was neutralised.

So, it has always been like this. Indians have been more methodical and tactical, Pakistanis pure instinctive.

 

[Gayle_Force]

Pandya has played a number of years . As has bhuvi .

India has not won icc tournaments but has been top 3 across all formats number of years . In tests it’s been dominating at home and been more competitive abroad than any current team

In odi and t20 , it has been dominating bilateral series .
Losses in icc tournaments are down to sometimes luck ( like the t20 World Cup bowling second last year all the time ) and to poor captaincy . India is rectifying that with Rohit , pant , pandya in captaincy roles ..

Having match winning batters and bowlers is the key but don’t forget the support cast . India lacked a good middle order support cast in limited overs cricket recently which led to icc tournament losses .

Sky pant pandya Karthick / sampson / Ayer are as good or fearsome middle order as any currently .

Avg players knowing their roles and performing is the key to success as star players need the avg players to perform . Bhuvi won the last match against pak and he is just avg but in good form . If he get injured , chahar is ready to replace him

Most teams struggle to get a like for like replacement . India holds the ace in this regard currently .

I think todays match should answer most of the points you raised. India is a very good side but they are not without issues and missing pieces.

 

[Usman Chadda]

I think todays match should answer most of the points you raised. India is a very good side but they are not without issues and missing pieces.

The middle-order is massively over-rated. Pandya, Pant and Yadav are nowhere near the quality India is used to. They put up a below par total tonight due to these three misfiring at a crucial point.

Pace bowling is pants without Bumrah. Harshal Patel is another medium pacer, they just don’t have anyone coming up.

 

[PakLFC]

Generally the fitness of the Indian boys is better then ours. In terms of Cricketing ability as we have seen over the past two matches it is very tight. Despite the IPL being a cash cow the gap in class is not that much at all if any.

 

[Gayle_Force]

The middle-order is massively over-rated. Pandya, Pant and Yadav are nowhere near the quality India is used to. They put up a below par total tonight due to these three misfiring at a crucial point.

Pace bowling is pants without Bumrah. Harshal Patel is another medium pacer, they just don’t have anyone coming up.

Yep India has 3-4 real match winning players but the rest are just average players. They are a great side but by no means invincible.

 

[offstump]

A lot of talk about cramps. Didn’t Wasim state that cramps doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with fitness? Rizwan is a supreme athlete still suffered from cramps. In regards to fitness, did you see Rohit? He looks like an overweight uncle. Anyone can win on any given day, no team is goona go undefeated.

 

[Firebat]

Did Pakistan win the tactical battle this time thanks to Nawaz's unexpected but successful promotion?

 

[Champ_Pal]

In T20, tactics are overrated. You bring out a gun and you hope it fires. If it fires, you are a cricket genius, otherwise, you are a terrible captain.
The gap is not that big in T20's between India and Pakistan. India may be slightly better, but Pakistan is well capable of embarrassing this overrated Indian lineup.

 

[Mobashir]

India is far superior in all metrics. Talent, skill, mentality, fitness, tactics etc. They played with a plan even though they didn’t execute it to perfection (with the bat) but Pakistan had no plan.

When Pakistan were put to bat, Babar and Rizwan’s heads were in the clouds. They were still in the 152-0 mode. Rizwan was not even watching the ball in the first couple of overs.

Indian think tank learned their lesson after the World T20 game and targeted the weak areas of the pair, both were badly exposed including Babar. They kept bowling bouncers because they knew our batsmen cannot handle them.

Pakistan on the other hand had no plan with the ball. They were just hoping for a miracle and some good fortune. Rahul’s wicket jolted India but it wasn’t planned, it was a stroke of luck.

On another day, that inside edge could have trickled to the boundary and India would have cantered to 8 or 9 wicket win. Everything India did was with a purpose, including promoted Jadeja. As I said, the execution was somewhat lacking, but you can’t fault their mindset.

When Pandya walked to the crease, you could see his confidence. In his mind, he was almost certain he would take India home. Even in the last over when when Jadeja got out and Pandya played a couple of dots, you could see the belief in his eyes.

At no point was there any doubt in his body language and that had an impact on Pakistan as well. There was a big difference between Pandya and Nawaz’s body language. At no point did Nawaz feel that he had any chance of winning that battle.

Pandya is the new Dhoni. He has taken the mantle. He is going to finish countless matches for India over the next 5-6 years and will also be a successful captain. Anyone who doubts him - or has doubted him - does not know anything about cricket.

It was obvious right from his first year in international cricket that he is a special cricketer in the making, and now he is at the perfect age to his his peak.

He is at the same age as Dhoni was in 2008-09, and it was at that stage where he matured into a world class finisher and won India countless matches over the next 5-6 years, and that is what Pandya will do as well.

These are the type of players and characters that Pakistan lack. You would never see such confidence and self-belief in the likes of Asif Ali, Khushdil etc.

Lol that post is pure gold. It looks like Mamoon is trolling India, otherwise you can't be so wrong.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Once again tactically outplayed by Pakistan. Nawaz's post match interview was most illuminating. The team culture since last year has changed completely and he was talking about executing skills under pressure .

The think tank got it absolutely spot on by sending Nawaz up the order to hit Chahal to the shorter boundary on the leg side.

India on the other hand, either did not have a plan for Nawaz (more likely) or could not execute properly against Nawaz.

 

[nuttyprof]

Despite the glitz of IPL, the BCCI team has had a set of issues. Soft underbelly due to lack of planning. 2019, the entire debate was for number 4. Wrong batting positions in the T20 line up. IMHO Rohit and Rahul are blocking places for talented batsmen like Gaikwad, Gill and Padikkal. Tewatia deserves a chance. Decent fielder, gun finisher and good part time bowler. Single handedly won games for GL. Lot of bowlers deserve chances in t20.

 

[Mobashir]

India is far superior in all metrics. Talent, skill, mentality, fitness, tactics etc. They played with a plan even though they didn’t execute it to perfection (with the bat) but Pakistan had no plan.

When Pakistan were put to bat, Babar and Rizwan’s heads were in the clouds. They were still in the 152-0 mode. Rizwan was not even watching the ball in the first couple of overs.

Indian think tank learned their lesson after the World T20 game and targeted the weak areas of the pair, both were badly exposed including Babar. They kept bowling bouncers because they knew our batsmen cannot handle them.

Pakistan on the other hand had no plan with the ball. They were just hoping for a miracle and some good fortune. Rahul’s wicket jolted India but it wasn’t planned, it was a stroke of luck.

On another day, that inside edge could have trickled to the boundary and India would have cantered to 8 or 9 wicket win. Everything India did was with a purpose, including promoted Jadeja. As I said, the execution was somewhat lacking, but you can’t fault their mindset.

When Pandya walked to the crease, you could see his confidence. In his mind, he was almost certain he would take India home. Even in the last over when when Jadeja got out and Pandya played a couple of dots, you could see the belief in his eyes.

At no point was there any doubt in his body language and that had an impact on Pakistan as well. There was a big difference between Pandya and Nawaz’s body language. At no point did Nawaz feel that he had any chance of winning that battle.

Pandya is the new Dhoni. He has taken the mantle. He is going to finish countless matches for India over the next 5-6 years and will also be a successful captain. Anyone who doubts him - or has doubted him - does not know anything about cricket.

It was obvious right from his first year in international cricket that he is a special cricketer in the making, and now he is at the perfect age to his his peak.

He is at the same age as Dhoni was in 2008-09, and it was at that stage where he matured into a world class finisher and won India countless matches over the next 5-6 years, and that is what Pandya will do as well.

These are the type of players and characters that Pakistan lack. You would never see such confidence and self-belief in the likes of Asif Ali, Khushdil etc.

This post has to be the most inaccurate ever on PP. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] should be laughing at himself..

 

[MenInG]

This post has to be the most inaccurate ever on PP. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] should be laughing at himself..

Can you address the points he has made us and tell us why you think so.

 

[Stewie]

Can you address the points he has made us and tell us why you think so.

With all due respect, does this poster warrant a serious riposte?

With Pandya it’s confidence but Pakistani players it’s head in the clouds?

Why would one bother to respond to such garbage?

 

[Golden arm]

Spot on

 

[Golden arm]

Just look at the physique of coaches of both teams and you will realize the fitness culture in both teams . Just on his awful fitness I won;t appoint Saqlain coach of a school team. I don;t buy this excuse of "bad knees", there is treatment for any knee problem if someone wants to.

Bad knees is a lame excuse
Physique is 95 percent diet and 5 percent exercise
If saqlain has will power he can easily maintain a balance physique

 

[shamaan]

Generally the fitness of the Indian boys is better then ours. In terms of Cricketing ability as we have seen over the past two matches it is very tight. Despite the IPL being a cash cow the gap in class is not that much at all if any.

Yes fitness standards of Rohit and Pant is way above pakistans fitness levels.