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'Taj Mahal is a blot on Indian history' - BJP MLA Sangeet Som

They are more interested in seeing the downfall of others more than improving themselves. Whether it is this or when their chucker gets caught.

Strangely they don't seem to show the same interest in seeing the downfall of others in the case of Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Jamaica, Sweden, etc. This interest only seems to be a special relationship between Pakistan and India only, perhaps reflected by the special interest shown by the specially large numbers of Indian friends posting here.
 
Can't say the same for entire subcontinent, look at Hyderabad for example. Many muslims were descendant of Central Asian, Arabian and Persian ancestry.

They will be in terrible minority.

Most Muslims in Hyderabad look exactly like other locals. A very few like the Owaisis may have part Persian or Arab ancestry.

Also Nizams brought in Gujjars and Jat converts from north to serve in their army. Of course, those guys are going to look a bit different from the rest of the Telugu Muslims and Hindus.

I have seen tons of Muslims in Hyderabad and they do not look any different to locals. Funnily, its the Muslims that are rich and in power that look different. The overwhelming majority of Muslim population are locals.

This is like picking a Brahmin guy from Andhra and explaining that this is how Telugus look. Obviously not. Brahmins are a minuscule minority and they do not represent the local population.
 
^ Just to add to my above post, some pictures of Hyderabadi Muslims. You just have to google them.

You can see that they look exactly like local Telugu people.

5.jpg4.jpg3.jpg2.jpg1.jpg.
 
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Which Muslim guilt? Muslims in Indian subcontinent are sons of the soil who chose to convert or got converted.

How conveniently didn't mention "forcefully".

Now, history is important and should always be remembered even if it is uncomfortable. So nothing wrong in criticism of Taj Mahal. However, one cannot be bitter about it. There is a difference between remembering, and being bitter of it. Thus, not right to blame current Muslims for it. However, the current generation of Muslims themselves have some blame, as many of them seem to be proud of such genocide/violence. Like naming children after such barbarics, like how would you feel if someone named their child, Hitler? It's all totally unacceptable.
 
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ANI UP ✔ @ANINewsUP
It does not matter who built it and for what reason; it was built by blood and sweat of Indian labourers: UP CM Yogi Adityanath #TajMahal pic.twitter.com/KSFU56KIRz

Never thought I will agree with something he says

This.....Taj Mahal does not need anybodies help to become famous. Whether they include it in their tourism booklet or not, tourists from all over the world will flock to see it.
 
What logic is "building tunnels in that time is impressive"? How does that make it better than Taj? In that sense the stone tools built by early man are better than the modern equipment which we use.

Fact is fact, ellora cave cannot hold a candle infront of taj in terms of being an architectural creation. Its another matter if you assign some abstract meanings to those caves and make it sound more important culturally or in some other way.

Do you even know in todays world digging a tunnel takes heck lot of an effort, imagine 190miles long tunnel some 2-3000 years ago. You can disagree with me all you want. Taj Mahal has beauty because it has been maintained time to time, but Ellora caves basically standing on its own. You like Taj fine thats your choice, i find absolute nothing special in Taj Mahal, its like you visit once and you’re done with it. Im looking at more adventure prespective.

Like i said, both are important to our( I mean Indian) society and both are different from each other.
 
India is not free till this structure stands naked on its heartland, mocking our history and challenging our dignity.
 
Sell of the stuff and build infrastructure for people in the city. They will be thankful for it.

Yes, but you need to pick the right infrastructure...as wounds are very deep:

Blinded by his grief and obsession, Shah Jahan almost emptied the royal treasury in the construction of the Taj. The great riches of the flourishing empire became a thing of the past. Moreover, a huge portion of the grains and resources were redirected to Agra in order to feed the elephants and thousands of labourers employed in the construction of the Taj, resulting in an artificial famine in the rest of the kingdom.
 
Yes, but you need to pick the right infrastructure...as wounds are very deep:

Blinded by his grief and obsession, Shah Jahan almost emptied the royal treasury in the construction of the Taj. The great riches of the flourishing empire became a thing of the past. Moreover, a huge portion of the grains and resources were redirected to Agra in order to feed the elephants and thousands of labourers employed in the construction of the Taj, resulting in an artificial famine in the rest of the kingdom.

If Shahjahan stopped having kids, Mumtaz Mahal would have been saved. Hence to Taj Mahal.

She died giving birth to Shahjahan's 14th child :facepalm:

Shahjahan had Multiple wives too.
 
Yes, but you need to pick the right infrastructure...as wounds are very deep:

Blinded by his grief and obsession, Shah Jahan almost emptied the royal treasury in the construction of the Taj. The great riches of the flourishing empire became a thing of the past. Moreover, a huge portion of the grains and resources were redirected to Agra in order to feed the elephants and thousands of labourers employed in the construction of the Taj, resulting in an artificial famine in the rest of the kingdom.

At one hand we had self indulging idiots like shahjahan.. and then we had Asaf-ud-Daula (jisko na de maula, usko de asafudaula)..who constructed bhool bhulaiya in lucknow only because there was a famine and he wanted people to have employment during that time. The right deserving icons are relegated and the most barbaric and depraved ones are glorified in indian history written by darbari historians.
 
If anyone who should be hailed as man of love, it was prince khusrau mirza..not the idiot khurram (who finally got what he deserved).
 
If Shahjahan stopped having kids, Mumtaz Mahal would have been saved. Hence to Taj Mahal.

She died giving birth to Shahjahan's 14th child :facepalm:

Shahjahan had Multiple wives too.


I do not know if you are aware of this fact that Mumtaz allowed him to have relationships with other women but he would not have children from other women. So, those children were killed on their day 1.(of course that what Mumtaz meant)...

It was kind of divine justice, when Aurengzeb killed Dara, Murad and Shujah.

His predatory nature about women was also "legendary" where he would sit in Bano Bazaar for hunting.
 
At one hand we had self indulging idiots like shahjahan.. and then we had Asaf-ud-Daula (jisko na de maula, usko de asafudaula)..who constructed bhool bhulaiya in lucknow only because there was a famine and he wanted people to have employment during that time. The right deserving icons are relegated and the most barbaric and depraved ones are glorified in indian history written by darbari historians.

jisko na de maula, usko de asafudaula ... I need to read about this guy.
 
It's interesting you say that, I never heard ordinary people discussing these issues either, but with the advent of the internet, the Hindutva movement has brought these issues to the forefront. The Babri Masjid stood for a long time before suddenly there was a groundswell of movement against it in the 90's. I don't know if that coincided with the web becoming worldwide phenomenon but certainly the BJP rise to power was fuelled by social media.

Before joshila bhai jumps in with indignation, let me be clear, I am not passing judgement on your government, or declaring Hindutva or right wing illegal movement. This is purely an observation, I don't have strong feelings either way.


Nah in early 1990's internet was not a phenomenon in India.. After 2000 it became popular before that only a few could afford computer and even fewer had internet.. To become a nationalistic party across PAN India you need to have something strong.. Congress haa history on their side (pre partition history) for BJP to challenge congress across pan India they needed and still need a strong factor which hindutva provides.. You see how many parties have come and aspired to become national parties but only BJP succeeded so they played the right game at the right time which parties like BSP, SP, TMC, RJD, DMK etc couldn't play because they themselves rose to power on support of Muslim votebank and if they went the hindutva route they would have lost their regional existence.. Muslims not from the state of the above mentioned parties in general elections side with congress so in LOL sabha existence here guys become irrelevant..

What BJP did was make a strong support base pan India which no other party could achieve and slowly grow from their by increasing their work force at ground levels.. Currently they probably have the highest number of work force in the world..
 
They will be in terrible minority.

Most Muslims in Hyderabad look exactly like other locals. A very few like the Owaisis may have part Persian or Arab ancestry.

Also Nizams brought in Gujjars and Jat converts from north to serve in their army. Of course, those guys are going to look a bit different from the rest of the Telugu Muslims and Hindus.

I have seen tons of Muslims in Hyderabad and they do not look any different to locals. Funnily, its the Muslims that are rich and in power that look different. The overwhelming majority of Muslim population are locals.

This is like picking a Brahmin guy from Andhra and explaining that this is how Telugus look. Obviously not. Brahmins are a minuscule minority and they do not represent the local population.

I agree.
 
Strangely they don't seem to show the same interest in seeing the downfall of others in the case of Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Jamaica, Sweden, etc. This interest only seems to be a special relationship between Pakistan and India only, perhaps reflected by the special interest shown by the specially large numbers of Indian friends posting here.

Indian are idiots too, can't blame your people for competing with us. Indians don't bring the downfall of Pakistan because India is doing better than Pakistan.If India and China or say USA are competing in a rival sport you will see lot of negative threads about them being created by Indians.
 
Hindu group assaults Taj Mahal gate

NEW DELHI: A group of Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) members tried to vandalise the west gate of the Taj Mahal on Sunday alleging that the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) is blocking the way to a 400-year-old Shiva temple while constructing a closed area for the Taj Mahal, the Indian Express said on Tuesday.

It said footage of the incident showed VHP workers with hammers and iron rods trying to vandalise the western entrance of the Taj Mahal (on Basai Ghat) even as they removed the turnstile gate installed by the ASI. The right-wing activists were also raising slogans against them. However, police said there’s an optional path to the Siddheshwar Mahadev Temple on the Basai Ghat, but the right-wing members weren’t satisfied with the explanation.

Meanwhile, after the ASI lodged a complaint, an FIR was registered on the same day against five members of the VHP and the 20-25 of their unidentified associates for rioting, assault or criminal force to deter public servant from discharge of his duty and under the section 7 of Criminal Law Amendment Act and a section of Prevention of Damage to Public Property Act, the Express said.

“On Sunday around 25-30 activists from the VHP came near the western gate of the Taj Mahal and started vandalising the newly installed turnstile gate for ticket collection for Taj Mahal and Saheli ka Burj. The protesters had hammers and iron rods with them. They removed the gate and threw it some around 50 metres from there. Soon the Taj safety police team reached there and stopped them from vandalising more property,” Taj Safety circle officer (CO) Prabhat Kumar said.

The FIR was later registered against VHP members Ravi Dubey, Madan Verma, Mohit Sharma, Niranjan Singh Rathore and Gulla and 20-25 other unidentified VHP members. No arrests have been made so far.

Talking to the Indian Express, VHP Brij Prant Vishesh Sampark Pramukh Ravi Dubey said they took this step as the ASI is removing all things related to the Hindu culture in and around the Unesco World Heritage monument.

“Till around 15 years ago, there used to be satsang at the Saheli ka Burj on the western gate but it was stopped. Dussehra fair was also stopped near Taj Mahal. Earlier people used to celebrate Amla Nawami here on the Taj Mahal premises near an Amla tree. That tree was also cut down by the ASI. There were so many other things people used to do here, but it all ended around 14-15 years ago during the Samajwadi Party and Bahujan Samaj Party rule. We cannot let this happen,” Dubey said.

He further added that while the ASI was claiming there’s an optional way to the temple, there’s only a narrow path on which people couldn’t even walk properly. On their future course of action, Dubey said the district administration was in talks with the ASI and they’re hoping that the issue would soon be sorted out.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1413869


Double whammy for the Taj Mahal as activists launch a follow up attack to go with the BJP spokesman tirade.
 
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It's their eternal wish since ages to rename every structure or road or monument that is named after Muslim rulers.
 
it's their eternal wish since ages to rename every structure or road or monument that is named after muslim <strike>rulers</strike> invaders.

Fixed it for you. In Germany, they still have teach about Holocaust but in India, they don't teach the genocide and violence by muslim invaders. Instead they are admired , which for Germans would be same as getting roads, structures named after Hitler
 
It's their eternal wish since ages to rename every structure or road or monument that is named after Muslim rulers.
Do they do the same to structures, roads or monuments named after the British? Or is it just Muslim names they have a problem with? Genuine question.
[MENTION=9655]someone21[/MENTION]
 
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Do they do the same to structures, roads or monuments names after the British? Genuine question.
[MENTION=9655]someone21[/MENTION]

Wherever popular grassroot movements have won, we have removed the british era names..like chennai, kolkata, bengaluru. but the convent educated and british worshipping brown sahibs are still very powerful and it will take many decades before we can overthrow these pretenders.
 
What are they waiting for, knocking it down.

It would be a better idea to leave it standing and give it a Hindu name, that way a couple of generations down the line they can claim it was Hindu inspiration all along. Think of the Goodness Gracious Me Made in India sketches.


 
It would be a better idea to leave it standing and give it a Hindu name, that way a couple of generations down the line they can claim it was Hindu inspiration all along. Think of the Goodness Gracious Me Made in India sketches.



I want to see it done to show up these small minded hindu fascists. What are they waiting for?
 
Should be renamed and modified into a secular mausoleum...as we are a secular country. It's presence is not good for communal harmony as it stands as a reminder of a brutal past.
 
It was the saving grace of Hindustan.

You are absolutely right. I dnt knw technically why pakistan thanks Mr jinnah sahab. If pakistan was not formed and muslims were in majority or even in equal percentage then i am sure india wud have been islamic rupublic .because history shows that all over hindus hardly care for their religion and muslims wherever in majority form islamic country or laws.
It was indeed a saving grace for hindustan...
 
Then I guess the creation of Pakistan is also a blot on indian history?

It is technically because indian civilization which is indus is now in pakistan very much and many many religious places of hindus which were there since centuries now has been vanished.
But it was good for india in long term i guess.
 
You are absolutely right. I dnt knw technically why pakistan thanks Mr jinnah sahab. If pakistan was not formed and muslims were in majority or even in equal percentage then i am sure india wud have been islamic rupublic .because history shows that all over hindus hardly care for their religion and muslims wherever in majority form islamic country or laws.
It was indeed a saving grace for hindustan...

They were killing each other before partition and if there was no Pakistan, the land would have remained in conflict for decades to come. The idea of Pakistan was genius.
 
They were killing each other before partition and if there was no Pakistan, the land would have remained in conflict for decades to come. The idea of Pakistan was genius.

Nope trust me...you know what india is expected to have highest number of muslims in coming years. Just imgagine if pakistan or bangladesh muslims were also there,muslims would have ruled for sure.
Mr jinnah was a god's gift to hindustan civilization. You wont understand this. But i am talking with logics .
When did i disagree ?? what i am saying is india owns a lot to Mr jinnah then even pakistan. Trust me.
 
Nope trust me...you know what india is expected to have highest number of muslims in coming years. Just imgagine if pakistan or bangladesh muslims were also there,muslims would have ruled for sure.
Mr jinnah was a god's gift to hindustan civilization. You wont understand this. But i am talking with logics .
When did i disagree ?? what i am saying is india owns a lot to Mr jinnah then even pakistan. Trust me.

Who says Muslims wont rule India again even with Pakistan present?
 
Every time such statements are made I cringe. Taj Mahal is a thing of rare beauty just like some of the forts, palaces, temples, mosques, churches, tombs and natural beauty all over India. Instead of spouting nonsense hope the BJP leaders think of ways to increase tourism in India which will add to our national income and provide employment opportunities to lakhs of youth. Even in death the late Mughal emperor is providing more employment to our people (via tourism, culture, food etc) compared to 99.9% of Indians today.
 
Every time such statements are made I cringe. Taj Mahal is a thing of rare beauty just like some of the forts, palaces, temples, mosques, churches, tombs and natural beauty all over India. Instead of spouting nonsense hope the BJP leaders think of ways to increase tourism in India which will add to our national income and provide employment opportunities to lakhs of youth. Even in death the late Mughal emperor is providing more employment to our people (via tourism, culture, food etc) compared to 99.9% of Indians today.

Lol how you know when the state you live never got under mughal rule. India has always been very wealthy place since centuries .Rich in everything, not now for sure..
Second these statements dnt mean a jack. Nothing gonna change about taj mahal or all . We all know this.
 
It would be a better idea to leave it standing and give it a Hindu name, that way a couple of generations down the line they can claim it was Hindu inspiration all along. Think of the Goodness Gracious Me Made in India sketches.



You seemed to have posted this video many times. Was wondering how popular it is among native Brits like yourself. :ssa
 
You seemed to have posted this video many times. Was wondering how popular it is among native Brits like yourself. :ssa

Goodness Gracious Me was extremely popular with all native Brits, not just those of SC extraction. Actually they aren't all the same videos, Mr Made in India featured a few different sketches along the same theme. Pretty great aren't they, and they always find a context on this wonderful forum.
 
AGRA: A deadly thunderstorm that rolled across parts of northern India damaged sections of the Taj Mahal complex, including the main gate and a railing running below its five lofty domes, officials said on Sunday.

One of the New Seven Wonders of the World, India’s top tourist attraction has been shut since mid-March as part of measures to try and combat the coronavirus pandemic.

Images showed workers assessing the railing of the main mausoleum, after the storm on Friday night battered Agra city in northern Uttar Pradesh state.

“One sandstone railing which was a part of the original structure has been damaged,” Superintending Archaeologist of the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI), Vasant Kumar Swarnkar, said.

“One marble railing which was a later addition, a false ceiling in the tourist holding area and the base stone of the main gate have also been damaged.”

He added there was no damage to the main structure of the monument to love — built by Mughal emperor Shah Jahan as a tomb for his beloved wife Mumtaz Mahal, who died while giving birth in 1631.

“The ASI team assessed the damage today. We found that there was no damage to the main structure. On the backside of the Taj mausoleum, a part of the railing broke and some marble tiles also gave way. Besides that, the main door on the western side tilted due to the impact. The tourist section that is outside the Taj Mahal complex was also damaged,” said an official.

According to the officials, most of the damage has been limited to the modern structure, which includes the tourist holding area, and frisking and checking area.

The ASI officials stated that the repair and reconstruction work, estimated to cost Rs2 million, could take up to one month as marble had to be brought in from Rajasthan.

They said that repairs at the Unesco World Heritage Site could take even less time if labourers were readily available.

According to a Unesco website, “The Taj Mahal is considered to be the greatest architectural achievement in the whole range of Indo-Islamic architecture. Its recognised architectonic beauty has a rhythmic combination of solids and voids, concave and convex and light shadow….

“The colour combination of lush green-scape, reddish pathway and blue sky over it showcases the monument in ever-changing tints and moods. The relief work in marble and inlay with precious and semi-precious stones make it a monument apart.”

Local media reports said thunderstorms and lightning on Friday killed at least 13 people in two Uttar Pradesh districts.

Fatal lightning strikes are relatively common during the June-October monsoon season.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1560444/deadly-thunderstorm-damages-taj-mahal
 
BJ people are very creative, now they are creating their own history.

Yes True history is boring Making it filmy with hindu good guys and evil muslim bad guys make it much more interesting and palatable
 
The iconic Taj Mahal has reopened its doors to visitors after six months - the longest it has ever been shut.

It was closed as the country went into a stringent lockdown in March to halt the spread of coronavirus.

It will now allow only 5,000 visitors daily and enforce Covid-19 safety measures as cases spike in India.

The Taj Mahal is one of the world's leading tourist attractions, and drew as many as 70,000 people every day before the pandemic.

The 17th-Century marble mausoleum was built by Mughal emperor Shah Jahan in memory of his queen, Mumtaz Mahal.

It was last shut briefly in 1978 when Agra city, where it is located, flooded. And before that, the monument closed for a few days in 1971, during a war between India and Pakistan.
 
https://theprint.in/opinion/yogi-ad...-has-many-modern-versions-for-muslims/506656/

Yogi Adityanath’s Mughal hatred based on Jizya. But BJP has many modern versions for Muslims

After renaming Allahabad to Prayagraj, Faizabad to Ayodhya, Mughalsarai Junction to Pandit Deen Dayal Upadhyaya Junction, and then, Agra Airport to Pandit Deen Dayal Upadhyaya Airport, Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath has found a new ‘target’. Driven by a compulsive need to rename ‘Muslim-sounding places’ to something that sounds more ‘Hindu’, Adityanath set his eyes on an under-construction Mughal museum in Agra that was envisioned by his predecessor Akhilesh Yadav.

This has very little to do with either history or Yogi Adityanath’s understanding of it. Being anti-Mughal in today’s politics is a dog-whistle and euphemism for anti-Muslim sentiment.

But obviously, the hate for Mughals is deeply rooted in Yogi’s “Babur ki Aulad” politics, which evidently needs to be upped, now that the UP assembly election is less than two years away.

Agra’s Mughal museum, now proposed to be turned into Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj museum, is just another example showcasing how Adityanath doesn’t consider Mughals as part of Indian history. It is ironic because Mughal history is deeply rooted in his state — for over 90 years, Agra was the capital city of Mughals, from 1560 to 1650.

The problem is convenient political conflating of Muslim invaders with settled Mughal rule. Perhaps, the greatest development feat of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) is to have the Ram Mandir built in their tenure. And Adityanath continues to ride the same wave of saffron politics, by insisting that nothing ‘Mughal’ can be celebrated in his state because they are a symbol of “the mentality of slavery”. But how true is that?

Mughals and the BJP
We can continue to malign the Mughals over the Jizya tax — how they levied it on Hindus for providing protection to them in their own land. However, this tax was abolished, reinstated and abolished again, under different Mughal rulers based on their politics, just like today, where different politicians choose to do away or keep the ‘symbols’ that suit their politics. While Akbar abolished Jizya, Aurangzeb reinstated it. However, Jahandar Shah abolished it again.

Power play has largely remained unchanged, and today’s politicians are no different from the Mughal kings 400 years ago. They broke temples then. They break mosques today. They imposed taxes then to make citizens appear like non-citizens. They impose discriminatory legislation, such as National Register of Citizens (NRC) and Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA). In this politics of historical revenge, they’re two sides of the same coin. Development and governance takes a toll.

While Aurangzeb is criticised for reinstating the Jizya, on reading the order, one can see that exemption was provided to various classes, including the unemployed, ill or old. The exemption also extended to women and children and those who joined the army. The tax was not uniform either. The wealthiest — those who owned more than ten thousand dirhams — were taxed the most (48 dirhams a year). The poorest, who owned less than 200 dirhams, had to pay one dirham a month. It’s not that only the Hindus were taxed during the Mughal period. Muslims were taxed too. The tax on Muslims was called zakat.

But today, in the golden age of BJP in India, facts don’t matter. Here, the victimisation of Hindus, 400 years ago, is repeatedly roused to evoke the pride of the community so that they re-elect a Hindu Hriday Samrat who can re-instate their self-esteem by painting India and its history in deep hues of saffron. Lessons are not learnt from history, which shows that a government — monarchy or democracy — functions best when secularism and equality are maintained, much like Akbar’s reign.

In fact, the whole idea of looking at the 331 years of Mughal rule with an anti-Hindu prism shows how the lack of education can gravely hinder one’s ability to understand history for what it was. The BJP has always held deep hatred for Aurangzeb. Even if they want to discard all symbols related to him, what about Akbar, Jahangir, Shah Jahan and those Mughal rulers who were not only deeply pro-Hindu, much to the dislike of many ulemas of their times, but also gave India some of the greatest cultural gems — the Taj Mahal, Fatehpur Sikri, Red Fort, et al, which fill the coffers of BJP-ruled states.

Mughals aren’t harming the economy
Although his compulsive disorder of renaming places seems most likely permanent, the BJP high command should tell Yogi Adityanath to take his attention off Mughals and focus on helping the migrant labourers get back their livelihoods. The UP chief minister had received much praise for bringing labourers and students back home.

Yogi needs to focus on his state, which needs to tide over chronic unemployment and a crippling economy.

Renaming Mughal museum to Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj museum — a king who only came to Agra once, and was held captive — will turn into a parody of a museum. If you don’t know your history, don’t play with it. Even if it is to win elections. History will come back to bite you. And it just did with the Jats of UP now getting angry over renaming the Agra museum after Shivaji. They claim that it was the Jat king Surajmal who fought and defeated the Mughals in the UP region and so the museum should have his name. Adityanath now has a new problem in his hands.
 
A relevant article....

A very good article, much needed for the healing of India, but tragically for the country, setting ethnic and religious groups against one another makes better headlines. Mughal history should be celebrated as one of the jewels in India's crowns. Easy to focus on the negatives only, but it is cutting your nose off to spite your face.
 
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