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Team combination with Faheem Ashraf and Hussain Talat in the same XI (ODIs + T20Is)

Kohli The King of Chase

Kohli The King of Chase

Local Club Captain
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Runs
2,572
In 2 T20is Talat has bowled 2 overs with 3 wickets @ 7.5 rpo


Faheem has bowled just 3 overs despite being the 5th bowler. Moreover with empty wickets column at 6.6 rpo

Malik and Talat can easily be the 5th bowler.

We can easily see that Faheem is being under utilised. If he doesn't improve his batting, he may go back to the bench.
 
Talat is playing for his batting. Faheem for his bowling and low order hitting. Talats performances won't determine whether Faheem loses his place or not.
 
Talat is clearly the better batsman. But he is an average bowler.

For Pak, considering that batting has been their weakest link, I would pick Talat over Faheem.

Pak has good enough bowling to carry Talat as their 5th bowler. Also the likes of Malik can share the 5th bowlers quota.
 
No because talat bowling is over rated. Hes been lucky bowling to tailenders mainly and bowling when pressure is off. Faheem is our biggest hope after Abdur razzaq and azhar mahmood. We hope he can become like stokes.
 
Lol both have different roles ... Talat is more of a specialist batsman, Faheem is a bowler and lower order hitter. Both are needed.
 
Don’t see why not.

Fahim will not be discarded as long as Mickey is coach. He thinks the world of him.
 
Both should be in the squad.Talat is the better batsman while Faheem is the better bowler.They both should play as Talat can play as a genuine batsman as well.
 
Talat is a batsman who can roll his arm over... Faheem is a bowling all rounder.

There’s space for both in T20. We need Faheem’s late order striking. Best lower order hitter in Pakistan.
 
ODI TEAM

F ZAMAN
H SOHAIL
B AZAM
S AHMED + *
S MALIK
A ALI
H TALAT
S KHAN
H ALI
M AMIR
J KHAN

H ALI, M AMIR, J KHAN and S KHAN to bowl 10 overs each.

10 overs can easily be shared by Talat, Malik and Haris.

Asif can do the role of hitter.

Your team is building up nicely.
 
Different players, Talat is more of a Watson type allrounder, Faheem is more of a James Faulkner.

Faheem’s place is more under threat by the likes of Imad and Nawaz, especially when we play on spinning tracks.

In Odis though I could Talat’s utility being a contributing factor in Faheem missing out. I don’t see either as being wicket taking options, so may as well play 3 pacers plus the batsmen who can bowl
 
Absolutely not! Talat bowls absolute tripe and he is not a front-line bowler.

He is getting wickets because WI are trying to slog and he is picking up cheap wickets. Talat should not even bowl his full quota, he is a good option to have that's all.

Neither of them are actually front line strike bowlers but Faheem can bowl his full quota
 
They have distinctive roles in the team and both should start in the team when it comes to limited overs cricket.
 
Kohli said:
ODI TEAM

F ZAMAN
H SOHAIL
B AZAM
S AHMED + *
S MALIK
A ALI
H TALAT
S KHAN
H ALI
M AMIR
J KHAN

H ALI, M AMIR, J KHAN and S KHAN to bowl 10 overs each.

10 overs can easily be shared by Talat, Malik and Haris.

Asif can do the role of hitter.

Your team is building up nicely.
Click to expand...

You're turning Talat into a slogger which is exactly what Pakistan cannot afford to do with him. The lowest he should bat at is #5 so drop Malik and place Faheem at #7. Talat is good enough to make the side as a batsman which is exactly what I see what I look at Talat. His bowling is only a bonus and he should be under no pressure improve it as long he bats well and plays a similar style to Yuvi and Morgan.
 
Kohli said:
In 2 T20is Talat has bowled 2 overs with 3 wickets @ 7.5 rpo


Faheem has bowled just 3 overs despite being the 5th bowler. Moreover with empty wickets column at 6.6 rpo

Malik and Talat can easily be the 5th bowler.

We can easily see that Faheem is being under utilised. If he doesn't improve his batting, he may go back to the bench.
Click to expand...

dont look at the stats; watch the actual games to understand what is going on;

Hussain Talat is a horrible bowler and Sarfraz will definitely not give him ball if the opposition is respectable; Hussain Talat is in the team for his batting, he is not an all-rounder.

Fahim Ashraf is a much better bowler than a batsman so he is also not an all-rounder.

But both of these players are not competing against each other for a position in the team. One is a batsman while the other is a bowler.
 
Faheem and Talat have seperate batting skills... Pakistan should be looking at Asif Ali and Faheem Ashraf as power hitter for last 15 overs or so, something does not exists in current ODI team, this restrain us from posting 300-330 score on regular basis, no amount of top batsmen are going to solve that problem... They should play regardless of the top order, because Pakistan don't have power hitters, lets not confuse the roles...

Talat should be developed as top order batsman, he is not slogger or power hitter like Asif or Faheem, no need to confuse the role, you can screw up both :facepalm:
 
If we continue to play against West Indies, Zimbabwe and World XI type of teams you will never be able to see Faheems true value. So far going has been easy for the Pakistan side. We will only know how good Faheem is when he comes in and Pakistan needs like say 50 off 30 balls or 70 off 40 which is why he is there at least in the batting aspect. Hussain is playing in the top order and his bowling skills are no where close to Faheems. Faheem was the best bowler in the PSL so definitely he is one of the best bowlers out there. For Faheem in the Pakistani cricketing circle Faheems main competitors are probably Amad Butt, Hammad Azam and Aamer Yamin who for now are not in the squad.
 
Kohli said:
ODI TEAM

F ZAMAN
H SOHAIL
B AZAM
S AHMED + *
S MALIK
A ALI
H TALAT
S KHAN
H ALI
M AMIR
J KHAN

H ALI, M AMIR, J KHAN and S KHAN to bowl 10 overs each.

10 overs can easily be shared by Talat, Malik and Haris.

Asif can do the role of hitter.

Your team is building up nicely.
Click to expand...

Asif doesnt merit a place in ODI team yet, Him out Fahim in
 
srh said:
dont look at the stats; watch the actual games to understand what is going on;

Hussain Talat is a horrible bowler and Sarfraz will definitely not give him ball if the opposition is respectable; Hussain Talat is in the team for his batting, he is not an all-rounder.

Fahim Ashraf is a much better bowler than a batsman so he is also not an all-rounder.

But both of these players are not competing against each other for a position in the team. One is a batsman while the other is a bowler.
Click to expand...

Talat has potential to improve as a bowler. He has gift of pace and bounce so just few months with the team and he should be bowling pretty well

Faheem and Talat both should Play in my opinion. We can open with Babar in ODIs too to make that happen
 
yasir said:
Faheem and Talat have seperate batting skills... Pakistan should be looking at Asif Ali and Faheem Ashraf as power hitter for last 15 overs or so, something does not exists in current ODI team, this restrain us from posting 300-330 score on regular basis, no amount of top batsmen are going to solve that problem... They should play regardless of the top order, because Pakistan don't have power hitters, lets not confuse the roles...

Talat should be developed as top order batsman, he is not slogger or power hitter like Asif or Faheem, no need to confuse the role, you can screw up both :facepalm:
Click to expand...

We can start to achieve 300+ consistently without having to slog for the sake of it if they play Babar, Haris and Talat in top 4 in ODIs. A good consistent RR throughout will help us achieve our objectives much like India does regularly.

And when you add lower order with Malik, Faheem, Shadab, Hasan and Amir then we can definitely put up big totals more often.

Hopefully next ODI series we see a top 4 of Fakhar, Babar, Haris, Talat followed by Sarfaraz, Malik, Faheem, Shadab, Hasan, Amir and Junaid. That would be a solid ODI XI for the WC.

Asif for now is fine in T20s, let him prove his worth in this format before we consider inducting him into ODIs to replace Malik.
 
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Both should play for Pakistan in the limited overs, as the next LOI world cup and T20 world cup will be played in England and Australia respectively.
 
Fahim will not be compared to a bowler because he isn't a "proper bowler", will insist he's picked for his batting.

He won't be compared to a batsman, and it's different as "Faheem can bowl".

Won't be compared to an allrounder, as it's different as "he's a pace allrounder not a spin allrounder so can't compare"

He's in the fortunate position where somehow he can do no wrong. No competitors to his spot, doesn't matter how well they perform. And doesn't matter how well he performs, if he does badly with the ball, people will insist he isn't picked for his ability with the bat And if he fails with the bat, people will just say he's still learning (despite World cup being a year away).

He is living up to his domestic averages atm (actually slightly worse, and quite a bit worse for bowling) even though people claimed he's much better than his domestic stats. And yet we are confident he'll turn it around by next year, when a year's already gone and little improvement with the bat at least (we didn't play much cricket in the last year but still).

Has to hold down his place as a bowler, we need some sort of standards for him, it's unfair for him to keep his place based off nothing. And he clearly isn't holding it with the bat, nor do I expect him to in the near future. I think it's fairly ridiculous that despite his low average and batting below Shadab, he hasn't even bowled full quota in ODIs. He's a literal passenger in the side, underutilised both batting and bowling, in NZ at times we were even bowling Haris over him.

In T20s, play him at 7, it's fine we can afford a weaker batting line up, and give him opportunities to prove himself.

However in ODIs (and in T20s somewhat) Let him try to hold down his place as third seamer. It's not that hard, our third seamer standards aren't terribly high. Then he can focus on his batting more. Atm his bowling is improving at a faster rate than his batting (which isn't changing too much) anyway.
 
Faheem has a different role to play. Faheem is required to come in and play a 35(20) sort of innings day in and day out to put the finishing touches to our innings or take us home in a tough chase.


Talat on the other hand would be required to play a long innings of 50+ in ODIs to set the platform. It's not going to be everyday where Fakhar goes hell to leather, or Babar plays an anchoring innings, which means Talat will assume the anchoring role. Let's not confuse his hitting ability for slogging. Talat is a proper batsman who is suited for number 3/4.


Fahim on the other hand is gun slogger. He is equally important for us.
 
nope they canbe the razzaq and azhar mahmood of this generation.. will compliment each other well
 
How come they compete with each other ? both are different players each with different skill-set.
Both are needed in our team in ODI ,T-20 and Test as well.
Only person who would find it difficult to get a place after the emergence of Talat and Faheem is Imad and I am very happy that we would get rid of his mediocrity .
Hafeez time is up from T-20 and soon from ODI also if Talats performs in ODI.
So team is on right track for now . Sit back and relax for a change :)
 
In T20Is utility is highly valued so I can't see one keeping the other out, plus as some have already stated; Faheem is more of a bowling A/R and Talat a batting A/R; they also have different roles in the team so as long as both put their head down and keep at it they should get a long rope hopefully to develop and gain experience at the international level.
 
For all those dismissing Faheem as a “premeditating slogger” ... what else is he going to do when he comes in the last 2 overs? You want him to be “selfish” and tap the ball around?
 
They both should be playing. Both are different types of players and we need both of them in the 11.
 
babajee said:
For all those dismissing Faheem as a “premeditating slogger” ... what else is he going to do when he comes in the last 2 overs? You want him to be “selfish” and tap the ball around?
Click to expand...

I hope tommorow fahim is given a chance at 4.
 
Faheem is a class act. I wonder what kind of threads these are sometimes!
 
babajee said:
For all those dismissing Faheem as a “premeditating slogger” ... what else is he going to do when he comes in the last 2 overs? You want him to be “selfish” and tap the ball around?
Click to expand...

it's not his approach that's wrong more his technique

I get the impression he is swinging madly rather than playing the ball. There is a difference. For example, Shadab has a bigger range and plays the bowling rather than going for the power hit.

I'm not saying Faheem doesn't have the ability, his helicopter shots are dhoniesque, but he does need to be more calm imo.

He should look at videos of Abdul Razzaq, Pakistan have never replaced him.

His hitting stance was great because he cleared his front leg, but still got himself into a position where he could transfer his weight and launch the ball offside if needed
 
For all those calling saying Faheem's bowling isnt good enough, he was the highest wicket taker in the psl, and we have some of the best bowling talent, and this allrounder showed them all up. enough said
 
They can coexist.

Theese two and Amir and Hasan. Gun pace attack.

Shadab and Imad/Nawaz and Malik as the spinners.
 
Faheem's place is going to depend on how well the batting does against better competition

if Fakhar, Babar, Talat, Sarfraz can consistently deliver performances against top bowling attacks, and Shadab, Nawaz / Imad can provide solid support in the lower order, then I can see Faheem being replaced by a better bowler like Shinwari or Shaheen

if batting continues to be brittle, then we'll need Faheem at 7/8
 
I love this XI from beginning to end. No need to change anything.

Pakistan have become the first team to play 11 players who are all capable of hitting a 50
 
ads101 said:
Fahim will not be compared to a bowler because he isn't a "proper bowler", will insist he's picked for his batting.

He won't be compared to a batsman, and it's different as "Faheem can bowl".

Won't be compared to an allrounder, as it's different as "he's a pace allrounder not a spin allrounder so can't compare"

He's in the fortunate position where somehow he can do no wrong. No competitors to his spot, doesn't matter how well they perform. And doesn't matter how well he performs, if he does badly with the ball, people will insist he isn't picked for his ability with the bat And if he fails with the bat, people will just say he's still learning (despite World cup being a year away).

He is living up to his domestic averages atm (actually slightly worse, and quite a bit worse for bowling) even though people claimed he's much better than his domestic stats. And yet we are confident he'll turn it around by next year, when a year's already gone and little improvement with the bat at least (we didn't play much cricket in the last year but still).

Has to hold down his place as a bowler, we need some sort of standards for him, it's unfair for him to keep his place based off nothing. And he clearly isn't holding it with the bat, nor do I expect him to in the near future. I think it's fairly ridiculous that despite his low average and batting below Shadab, he hasn't even bowled full quota in ODIs. He's a literal passenger in the side, underutilised both batting and bowling, in NZ at times we were even bowling Haris over him.

In T20s, play him at 7, it's fine we can afford a weaker batting line up, and give him opportunities to prove himself.

However in ODIs (and in T20s somewhat) Let him try to hold down his place as third seamer. It's not that hard, our third seamer standards aren't terribly high. Then he can focus on his batting more. Atm his bowling is improving at a faster rate than his batting (which isn't changing too much) anyway.
Click to expand...

What is the basis of Sarfraz in the team?? He is not a proper batsmen not a power hitter nor a quality keeper, yet his palace is untouchable.

All expectation must be met by these young kids like in CT, all the talk was about Fakhir should do this and that...Nobody mention what should Azhar, Hafeez, Malik, Sarfraz do? They are just there to guide youngesters. If this is all they are good at, then a job as supporting staff, we have 18 of them as well :facepalm:
 
yasir said:
What is the basis of Sarfraz in the team?? He is not a proper batsmen not a power hitter nor a quality keeper, yet his palace is untouchable.

All expectation must be met by these young kids like in CT, all the talk was about Fakhir should do this and that...Nobody mention what should Azhar, Hafeez, Malik, Sarfraz do? They are just there to guide youngesters. If this is all they are good at, then a job as supporting staff, we have 18 of them as well :facepalm:
Click to expand...

Captain, wicketkeeper, batsman. He's good enough to get into the team on any of those disciplines. I'm pretty sure he's the best captaincy option we have now. Wicketkeeping he ain't great, but he doesn't face much competition from a wicketkeeper who can bat in domestic (we don't want Kamran back. Rizwan's an even worse bat, Adnan's a better keeper but again worse bat).

Sarfraz averages 40 in tests, 34 in ODIs SR 86, 27 in T20s. Those aren't terrible stats by a wicketkeeper. It's not 15. Admittedly ODIs especially he should be better, but then again Kamran akmal averaged 26 in that format and was a worse keeper.

Sarfraz isn't "untouchable", it's just the guys coming up aren't competition. If that changes, he'll feel pressure. If anything I agree he's gotten complacent hence his weight gain. But what can we do, it's up to others in domestic to stand up. Even in PSL Sarfraz was the best wicketkeeper batsman by some distance from Pakistan.

Azhar's not in the team. Hafeez shouldn't be, and I'm pretty sure is out now in ODIs, and is already out in T20s. Malik has had very good averages in LOI, particularly T20, but is failing against top teams in ODIs and should be given the boot if things don't turn around soon.

Name a replacement to Sarfraz. If you can't, which I suspect most can't, difficult to move him from the side. Sarfraz isn't an extraordinary player by any means.
 
ads101 said:
Captain, wicketkeeper, batsman. He's good enough to get into the team on any of those disciplines. I'm pretty sure he's the best captaincy option we have now. Wicketkeeping he ain't great, but he doesn't face much competition from a wicketkeeper who can bat in domestic (we don't want Kamran back. Rizwan's an even worse bat, Adnan's a better keeper but again worse bat).

Sarfraz averages 40 in tests, 34 in ODIs SR 86, 27 in T20s. Those aren't terrible stats by a wicketkeeper. It's not 15. Admittedly ODIs especially he should be better, but then again Kamran akmal averaged 26 in that format and was a worse keeper.

Sarfraz isn't "untouchable", it's just the guys coming up aren't competition. If that changes, he'll feel pressure. If anything I agree he's gotten complacent hence his weight gain. But what can we do, it's up to others in domestic to stand up. Even in PSL Sarfraz was the best wicketkeeper batsman by some distance from Pakistan.

Azhar's not in the team. Hafeez shouldn't be, and I'm pretty sure is out now in ODIs, and is already out in T20s. Malik has had very good averages in LOI, particularly T20, but is failing against top teams in ODIs and should be given the boot if things don't turn around soon.

Name a replacement to Sarfraz. If you can't, which I suspect most can't, difficult to move him from the side. Sarfraz isn't an extraordinary player by any means.
Click to expand...

Sarfraz is the worse wicket keeper batsman out of top 6 team in LOIs, people of claiming he has no competition, there is something seriously wrong with think tank and fan base...🙄🙄🙄

Just because he is Captain Pakistan stop looking, he is fast becoming one of the most useless player in the team. Pakistan has habit of making passenger a Captain...Modern teams focus on every position, where as Pakistan always carry useless seniors till the next mega event, after big flop we search for another useless senior to take us to next mega event, I am not sure when this none sense will stop 🤬🤬🤬
 
Both are very important in the lineup and should play in each and every match.

Fahim should play as a 3rd pacer while as Talat as 6th bowling option in case any bowler misfires.

Talat is a Batsman who could bowl occasionally while as Fahim is a bowling allrounder and his big hitting is badly needed in the death overs.
 
yasir said:
Sarfraz is the worse wicket keeper batsman out of top 6 team in LOIs, people of claiming he has no competition, there is something seriously wrong with think tank and fan base...������

Just because he is Captain Pakistan stop looking, he is fast becoming one of the most useless player in the team. Pakistan has habit of making passenger a Captain...Modern teams focus on every position, where as Pakistan always carry useless seniors till the next mega event, after big flop we search for another useless senior to take us to next mega event, I am not sure when this none sense will stop ������
Click to expand...

Sarfaraz at 4 can be usefull in ODIs. His strike rotation is among the best and the rule of only four fielders outside the circle in middle overs will help him to score at a decent rate without taking too much risks.
 
They can both make the same team. This is what Arthur is looking for, players who can bat, bowl and field.
 
yasir said:
Sarfraz is the worse wicket keeper batsman out of top 6 team in LOIs, people of claiming he has no competition, there is something seriously wrong with think tank and fan base...������

Just because he is Captain Pakistan stop looking, he is fast becoming one of the most useless player in the team. Pakistan has habit of making passenger a Captain...Modern teams focus on every position, where as Pakistan always carry useless seniors till the next mega event, after big flop we search for another useless senior to take us to next mega event, I am not sure when this none sense will stop ������
Click to expand...

okay whats his competition ?
 
Talat is batting allrounder and top middle order batsman while fahim is more of a bowling allrounder and pinch hitter down the order.
 
Two different roles. Faheem Ashraf is in the team mainly for his bowling but is capable of getting a few quick runs whereas Talat is in the team as a batsman but is capable of bowling a few overs
 
Talat got lucky wickets.His real test will be against top order batsmen or bigger teams.Talat is a good batsman who can bowl.Faheem is a good bowling all rounder.Both should play in the playing eleven.
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
okay whats his competition ?
Click to expand...

Same argument was made about all seniors in last decade, we filled team with passengers seniors with below average skills and could not win anything even in UAE... Pakistan has zero batting talent, no bowler can bowl above 130, we have to play 35 years old seamers and 38 years old spinners for half the decade, because there is no talent... All of a sudden, even U19 has 2-3 140K bowler...

You cannot tell me that Sarfraz is the standard of keeping in this day and age. He is not athletic, has age of 30, looks more like 36, forget about everything else, his fitness is fast getting out dated for LOI team...His batting is one dimensional, even leg side hoick does not go beyond 50 meters against 125k trundlers, forget about 145 pace...Against pace he is hopeless. Is there any team that fear Sarfraz batting? Nobody fears him in PSL forget about world. People are here arguing as if Sarfraz is second coming of Gilly, He could not do anything for Quetta, what he could do for Pakistan :facepalm: How hard is to overcome this standard??
 
Last edited:
yasir said:
Same argument was made about all seniors in last decade, we filled team with passengers seniors with below average skills and could not win anything even in UAE... Pakistan has zero batting talent, no bowler can bowl above 130, we have to play 35 years old seamers and 38 years old spinners for half the decade, because there is no talent... All of a sudden, even U19 has 2-3 140K bowler...

You cannot tell me that Sarfraz is the standard of keeping in this day and age. He is not athletic, has age of 30, looks more like 36, forget about everything else, his fitness is fast getting out dated for LOI team...His batting is one dimensional, even leg side hoick does not go beyond 50 meters against 125k trundlers, forget about 145 pace...Against pace he is hopeless. Is there any team that fear Sarfraz batting? Nobody fears him in PSL forget about world. People are here arguing as if Sarfraz is second coming of Gilly, He could not do anything for Quetta, what he could do for Pakistan :facepalm: How hard is to overcome this standard??
Click to expand...

You are avoiding it

We have plenty of batsmen and bowlers waiting in the wings

Even ignoring that you are acting like Sarfraz is a TTF, what other keeper do we have. Can’t see anyone right now other than rizwan
 
ShahidDar08 said:
Umair Masood & Rohail Nazir
Click to expand...

Lol you can’t be serious

Umair has only played 20 odd games and scored two 50s, potential yes but you either have an agenda or delusional if you think he is ready

Rohail is 16 and has only played 2 t20s
 
Team combination with Faheem Ashraf and Hussain Talat in the same XI (ODIs)

If we go with 3 Pacer
The line up will be like this
1.Fakhar
2.Babar
3.Haris
4.Sarfaraz
5.Malik
6.Talat
7.Sadab
8.Faheem
9.Hasan
10.Amir
11.Junaid

If we go with 2 Pacer
The line up will be like this
1.Fakhar
2.Babar
3.Haris
4.Sarfaraz
5.Malik
6.Talat
7.Hafeez/Imad
8.Faheem
9.Sadab
10.Amir
11.Hasan

In Wc 2019 i will go with the 2nd lineup with 2 Fast bowlers, 2 Allround medium fast bowlers, 2 genuine spinners. A strong batting lineup & a good bowling options . Views?
 
It’s simple:

Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfraz
Talat
Asif
Shadab
Faheem
Hasan
Amir
Shaheen/Junaid/Usman
 
Pakistan needs to move on from Shoaib Malik, just a garbage batsman on faster wickets and 140+ bowling.
 
My lineup and squad for 2019 qc would look like this:

1. Fakhar
2. Babar
3. Haris
4. Sarfaraz
5. Malik
6. Faheem
7. Imad
8. Shadab
9. Hassan
10. Amir
11. Usman

12. Shaheen
13. Asif
14. Talat
15. Junaid
 
babajee said:
It’s simple:

Fakhar
Babar
Haris
Sarfraz
Talat
Asif
Shadab
Faheem
Hasan
Amir
Shaheen/Junaid/Usman
Click to expand...

That’s pretty much the best of the lot.

Would be my pick for the squad and order for the WC.
 
WC 2019 ODI Squad:

01. Sahibzada Farhan
02. Fakhar Zaman
03. Babar Azam
04. Hussain Talat
05. Sarfaraz Ahmad (C&Wk)
06. Asif Ali
07. Shadab Khan
08. Mohammad Nawaz
09. Hassan Ali
10. Mohammad Aamir
11. Usman Shinwari

12. Shoaib Malik
13. Fahim Ashraf
14. Ahmad Shahzad
15. Zafar Gowhar
16. Shaheen Shah Afridi
 
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