Terror police warn against new rules on Muslim hate

[Robert]

It's not. The equality law summary :



There is no law that prevents hate towards a particular religion in the UK. Judaism however is protected by the equality act because Judaism is considered a race, unlike other religions.

That’s not an accurate summation (wiki?) as race is also a protected characteristic. So your race, and mine too, are afforded the same protections as the Jewish race.

 

[Robert]

I reply according to the posts.

You're not even close. Every citizen pays taxes, the Muslims under the system payed more than the minorities. The Jews and Christians were also expemt from fighting if there was a war. The rich paid more and the poor were often expemt from paying. If the state failed to protect them, they would refund their taxes. If the UK was to offer Muslims such a deal ,they would all take it up. Islam is far more just in this regard than any secular system in history.

That is quixotic thinking on your part. If they were not expected to fight to defend the state then that means they were not first class citizens of the state because their personal responsibility to the state was set lower than for the Muslims.

Now, I am sure that some Jewish communities would have preferred peace at that price to facing yet another pogrom, but they were still not equal in responsibility to Muslims in those states and therefore lacking in commensurate rights.

The modern British state affords Muslims exactly the same rights as everyone else for the same taxes. I am sure that modern British Muslims would not want to be ‘protected’ second class citizens. It would be settling for second best.

 

[Technics 1210]

That’s not an accurate summation (wiki?) as race is also a protected characteristic. So your race, and mine too, are afforded the same protections as the Jewish race.

Not an accurate summary because it is from WIKI? Then kindly post a summary or highlight the specific text outlining the law against discrimination based on a religion since you have read the equalities act.

I think you are bring deliberately obtrusive here. No one is denying discrimination based on race is not protected, but when you say my race, you mean Pakistani, NOT Islam. Islam is not considered a race, but Judaism is - this is the point, and I think you know this, further proven by the fact you state above "Jewish race". Is Islam a race? Is Christianity a race? Is Hinduism a race?

No one has said that race is not protected from discrimination under the equality act. The point is the equality act does not protect religion from being discriminated unless in the work place. However the protection is extended to Jews because Jews are considered a race, and the equalities act states that discrimination based on race, in all places, is illegal, unlike discrimination based on religion which only applies to the workplace.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That is quixotic thinking on your part. If they were not expected to fight to defend the state then that means they were not first class citizens of the state because their personal responsibility to the state was set lower than for the Muslims.

Now, I am sure that some Jewish communities would have preferred peace at that price to facing yet another pogrom, but they were still not equal in responsibility to Muslims in those states and therefore lacking in commensurate rights.

The modern British state affords Muslims exactly the same rights as everyone else for the same taxes. I am sure that modern British Muslims would not want to be ‘protected’ second class citizens. It would be settling for second best.

It was set higher not lower. They do not have to fight and will be defended but of course they have the right to defend themselves if they so wish.

Jewish communities thrived under Islamic rule, they were in high positions, advisors to the rulers etc.

You ignored the part where I stated their taxes were mostly lower and the poor did not have to pay taxes + they were promised security. British Muslims pay the same taxes, have no guarantee of security because they would be told to fight if there was an invasion.

No offence Robert but you have no clue what you are talking about on this subject, so please dont guess or make up stuff.

 

[Tubs]

It was set higher not lower. They do not have to fight and will be defended but of course they have the right to defend themselves if they so wish.

Jewish communities thrived under Islamic rule, they were in high positions, advisors to the rulers etc.

You ignored the part where I stated their taxes were mostly lower and the poor did not have to pay taxes + they were promised security. British Muslims pay the same taxes, have no guarantee of security because they would be told to fight if there was an invasion.

No offence Robert but you have no clue what you are talking about on this subject, so please dont guess or make up stuff.

You always default to 'you don't know about this topic' when someone says something you don't like. Quran 9:29 says that the jizya is to humble (or humiliate depending on the translation) so don't even try and suggest that it isn't about subjugation of other religions. You really can't be arguing that a Shariah state is superior to a secular democracy?

 

[KingKhanWC]

You always default to 'you don't know about this topic' when someone says something you don't like. Quran 9:29 says that the jizya is to humble (or humiliate depending on the translation) so don't even try and suggest that it isn't about subjugation of other religions. You really can't be arguing that a Shariah state is superior to a secular democracy?

Its not humilate because this goes against the principles. You and Robert dont have clue, Im only stating facts. Go to a scholar and ask the meaning of verses or principles in Islam regarding Jiyza. Islam is far superiour than a secular democracy in terms of treatment of it's citizens.

 

[Tubs]

Its not humilate because this goes against the principles. You and Robert dont have clue, Im only stating facts. Go to a scholar and ask the meaning of verses or principles in Islam regarding Jiyza. Islam is far superiour than a secular democracy in terms of treatment of it's citizens.

Regardless, even if it's to 'humble', it isn't with positive intention. It's only a 'fact' to you because it coincides with its worldview. Don't appeal to authority, their biased interpretation is no more valid than mine. So, cutting off hands of thieves, stoning adulterers and homosexuals, death penalty for apostates, imposing a religious tax are all examples of better treatment? You can keep your Islamic state, I'm going with the secular one.

 

[Technics 1210]

Regardless, even if it's to 'humble', it isn't with positive intention. It's only a 'fact' to you because it coincides with its worldview. Don't appeal to authority, their biased interpretation is no more valid than mine. So, cutting off hands of thieves, stoning adulterers and homosexuals, death penalty for apostates, imposing a religious tax are all examples of better treatment? You can keep your Islamic state, I'm going with the secular one.

Please cite the Quranic verses where it states adulterers must be stoned, along with homosexuals. You must be confusing yourself with the Bible and Torah.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Regardless, even if it's to 'humble', it isn't with positive intention. It's only a 'fact' to you because it coincides with its worldview. Don't appeal to authority, their biased interpretation is no more valid than mine. So, cutting off hands of thieves, stoning adulterers and homosexuals, death penalty for apostates, imposing a religious tax are all examples of better treatment? You can keep your Islamic state, I'm going with the secular one.

What level of knowledge do you have in Islam? Have you studied it?

Because your level is from reading hate sites. This is the type of debate the likes of the EDL bring up. I wont even bother refuting them.

There is no Islamic state today but you enjoy what you like, no skin off my nose.

 

[Tubs]

Please cite the Quranic verses where it states adulterers must be stoned, along with homosexuals. You must be confusing yourself with the Bible and Torah.

They're in sahih hadith, is that not sufficient? I could be wrong about homosexuality, as I remember being thrown from a roof top being a punishment mentioned before. Regardless, the hudud (I think that's how it's spelled) does cover zina, and I am almost certain that most mainstream schools of thought advocate stoning as punishment for homosexuality.

 

[Tubs]

What level of knowledge do you have in Islam? Have you studied it?

Because your level is from reading hate sites. This is the type of debate the likes of the EDL bring up. I wont even bother refuting them.

There is no Islamic state today but you enjoy what you like, no skin off my nose.

Depends what you mean by 'studied'. I was raised Muslim, and I get my sources from quran.com and various hadith cites. I am certainly no scholar, but do you need to be to show atrocities within an ancient text?

It's quite rich that you are asking about level of knowledge, when you were saying that human evolution isn't real despite being far less knowledgeable than the academics who study it. And scientific evidence is verifiable, whereas subjective claims from ancient scriptures aren't.

 

[Technics 1210]

They're in sahih hadith, is that not sufficient? I could be wrong about homosexuality, as I remember being thrown from a roof top being a punishment mentioned before. Regardless, the hudud (I think that's how it's spelled) does cover zina, and I am almost certain that most mainstream schools of thought advocate stoning as punishment for homosexuality.

I was asking for Qu'ran. If I see a contradiction between Hadith and Qu'ran I will put my faith on the Qu'ran being the more accurate. Anyhoo, there is no verse in the Qur'an that states adulterers must be stoned, and homosexuals must be killed. Yes homosexuality is described a sin, but there is no death penalty in the Qur'an. By the way, Qur'an states that adulteres, BOTH man and woman, must be lashed, not stoned.

"Those who commit adultery, men or women, give each of them a hundred lashes" Qur'an 24: 2.

As for homosexuals being thrown off a roof top, I think you are confusing yourself between culture and religion. 70 years ago Homosexuals were not only illegal in the UK but also at the receiving end of inequality, death, violence etc. Would you say the Bible promotes such feats or culture?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Depends what you mean by 'studied'. I was raised Muslim, and I get my sources from quran.com and various hadith cites. I am certainly no scholar, but do you need to be to show atrocities within an ancient text?

It's quite rich that you are asking about level of knowledge, when you were saying that human evolution isn't real despite being far less knowledgeable than the academics who study it. And scientific evidence is verifiable, whereas subjective claims from ancient scriptures aren't.

Not raised very well it seems. Everything has a context in scripture. There is no conclusive proof of apes becoming humans as dicussed on the relevant topic. All the nonsense you have wrote has been refuted by scholars, go watch them on youtube. No point wasting time on here.

 

[Tubs]

I was asking for Qu'ran. If I see a contradiction between Hadith and Qu'ran I will put my faith on the Qu'ran being the more accurate. Anyhoo, there is no verse in the Qur'an that states adulterers must be stoned, and homosexuals must be killed. Yes homosexuality is described a sin, but there is no death penalty in the Qur'an. By the way, Qur'an states that adulteres, BOTH man and woman, must be lashed, not stoned.



As for homosexuals being thrown off a roof top, I think you are confusing yourself between culture and religion. 70 years ago Homosexuals were not only illegal in the UK but also at the receiving end of inequality, death, violence etc. Would you say the Bible promotes such feats or culture?

Certainly, the Bible is just a reprehensible as the Quran to me, but don't try to use a tu quoque fallacy. You very conveniently deny sahih hadith when it's inconvenient to your position. But if we take Quran only, lashing is still incredibly immoral for either 'crime'.

 

[Tubs]

Not raised very well it seems. Everything has a context in scripture. There is no conclusive proof of apes becoming humans as dicussed on the relevant topic. All the nonsense you have wrote has been refuted by scholars, go watch them on youtube. No point wasting time on here.

'Context' is a common excuse used. Islam is meant to be applicable to all times, but it obviously a product of its time. And of course there is no proof of humans going to apes, because humans are apes, we share a common ancestor with the other great apes, but you won't accept the truth because it goes against Islam. Fine by me, don' t waste my time. Nothing can change the fact that Islam at its core has no place in the modern world (same with the other Abrahamic faiths, of course).

 

[Technics 1210]

Certainly, the Bible is just a reprehensible as the Quran to me, but don't try to use a tu quoque fallacy. You very conveniently deny sahih hadith when it's inconvenient to your position. But if we take Quran only, lashing is still incredibly immoral for either 'crime'.

You didn't answer the question. Unsurprising.

You failed to back your argument, and it was convenient of you to use the Hadith, and not the Qur'an when you realized you were all bluff and bluster; using fancy phrases lifted from Google doesn't hide this fact.

If we take just the Qu'ran it proves you wrong, which is why you conveniently included other sources in an attempt to bolster your claim. You're still young, you have a lot to learn once you complete university.

Have a nice evening!

 

[KingKhanWC]

'Context' is a common excuse used. Islam is meant to be applicable to all times, but it obviously a product of its time. And of course there is no proof of humans going to apes, because humans are apes, we share a common ancestor with the other great apes, but you won't accept the truth because it goes against Islam. Fine by me, don' t waste my time. Nothing can change the fact that Islam at its core has no place in the modern world (same with the other Abrahamic faiths, of course).

Thats your opinion based on ignorance and lack of understanding. Are you really doing a degree? lol Since you mentioned it your parents must be happy you have found the light? Are they non-Muslims now too?

No need to go off topic, you failed in the relevant thread.

Muslims deserve the same protection as other minorities but are not getting this. While in historic Islamic states the minorities were granted better rights , paid less tax and enjoyed protection. Secular world is only good for the individual to realise his/her desires not for society.

 

[Tubs]

You didn't answer the question. Unsurprising.

You failed to back your argument, and it was convenient of you to use the Hadith, and not the Qur'an when you realized you were all bluff and bluster; using fancy phrases lifted from Google doesn't hide this fact.

If we take just the Qu'ran it proves you wrong, which is why you conveniently included other sources in an attempt to bolster your claim. You're still young, you have a lot to learn once you complete university.

Have a nice evening!

And what did you study at university? Probably Islamic studies, don't worry, you'll find a job soon! I don't know what you mean fancy phrase lifted from Google, but as you were, you obviously get insecure when you come across words you don't understand.

Either way, lashing or stoning, it is disgusting. You can't dance around that. Let's add (sexual) slavery to the mix, oh and wife beating and Aisha being a child. You'll probably say 'b-but slavery was different in Islam, b-b-but it says beat lightly and symbolically, b-b-but girls mature faster in the desert!111one!1' All untrue.

 

[Tubs]

Thats your opinion based on ignorance and lack of understanding. Are you really doing a degree? lol Since you mentioned it your parents must be happy you have found the light? Are they non-Muslims now too?

No need to go off topic, you failed in the relevant thread.

Muslims deserve the same protection as other minorities but are not getting this. While in historic Islamic states the minorities were granted better rights , paid less tax and enjoyed protection. Secular world is only good for the individual to realise his/her desires not for society.

Yeah I failed, whereas you just stick your finger in your ears whenever scientific literature came up.

Nope, they're devout Muslims. Yep, I'm at uni, are you?

My opinion is based off ignorance and understanding, but yours is coincides with your book. Your indoctrination is very sad.

 

[Technics 1210]

And what did you study at university? Probably Islamic studies, don't worry, you'll find a job soon! I don't know what you mean fancy phrase lifted from Google, but as you were, you obviously get insecure when you come across words you don't understand.

Either way, lashing or stoning, it is disgusting. You can't dance around that. Let's add (sexual) slavery to the mix, oh and wife beating and Aisha being a child. You'll probably say 'b-but slavery was different in Islam, b-b-but it says beat lightly and symbolically, b-b-but girls mature faster in the desert!111one!1' All untrue.

I just realised you are the guy who claimed there is proof of abiogenesis while learning what it meant 5 minutes earlier to your claim. I bet you have 2 screens, one for posting, one for Google. Hehehehe.

Anyway - you have derailed this thread with your random ramblings.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yeah I failed, whereas you just stick your finger in your ears whenever scientific literature came up.

Nope, they're devout Muslims. Yep, I'm at uni, are you?

My opinion is based off ignorance and understanding, but yours is coincides with your book. Your indoctrination is very sad.

Why waste time on here? Surely you love them more than you care about any random poster on here? Use the time to sit with them, explain they are following a backward false way of life and their ancestors were apes. Let me know how you get on

 

[Tubs]

I just realised you are the guy who claimed there is proof of abiogenesis while learning what it meant 5 minutes earlier to your claim. I bet you have 2 screens, one for posting, one for Google. Hehehehe.

Anyway - you have derailed this thread with your random ramblings.

Haha, you are such a liar. I said there was some supportive evidence for a hypothesis, and I was aware f abiogenesis far before our discussion due to my research in Artificial Life.

You are obviously very embarrassed by your lack of education, hence why you keep dodging the question. And you seem to love using the Google argument, how could I obtain papers without it?

Regardless, I agree that this thread has been derailed, so after replying to the other guy I’m done here.

 

[Tubs]

Why waste time on here? Surely you love them more than you care about any random poster on here? Use the time to sit with them, explain they are following a backward false way of life and their ancestors were apes. Let me know how you get on

I will tell them after I have moved out for my Masters or PhD, since they’ll surely disown me. I will obviously have more tact when talking to them because they’re my parents. Again, you obviously don’t understand science so don’t even try, your ignorance is showing.

I hope you get educated soon. As the other guy mentioned, this has been detailed so I am done on that thread, enjoy your iftar (and I mean that sincerely).

 

[Technics 1210]

Why waste time on here? Surely you love them more than you care about any random poster on here? Use the time to sit with them, explain they are following a backward false way of life and their ancestors were apes. Let me know how you get on

To be frank his veiled attacks on Islam are the very reason we need laws against Islamophobia. In scientific terms, he signifies empirical evidence with a 5 sigma probability. (I bet he will Google this).

 

[KingKhanWC]

I will tell them after I have moved out for my Masters or PhD, since they’ll surely disown me. I will obviously have more tact when talking to them because they’re my parents. Again, you obviously don’t understand science so don’t even try, your ignorance is showing.

I hope you get educated soon. As the other guy mentioned, this has been detailed so I am done on that thread, enjoy your iftar (and I mean that sincerely).

I would not advise living a life of lies and deciet towards ones parents. You are using them while pursuing your 'education' and will never speak to them again when you have money in your pocket. I assume this is your secular free liberal belief, it's your life, YOLO and the rest of the nonsense you hear.

To be frank his veiled attacks on Islam are the very reason we need laws against Islamophobia. In scientific terms, he signifies empirical evidence with a 5 sigma probability. (I bet he will Google this).

For sure. Its really sad because he is spreading hate no different to the likes of Tommy Robinson and it's a possibility his hate could be read by someone inspiring that person to attack a Muslim, which could be someone from his own family.

 

[Tubs]

To be frank his veiled attacks on Islam are the very reason we need laws against Islamophobia. In scientific terms, he signifies empirical evidence with a 5 sigma probability. (I bet he will Google this).

Ha, good one. I have studied probability at uni. You sure try to act clever for someone with no qualifications. If you think criticism of Islamic doctrine as an objective fact for all time is an attack, then this shows your victim mentality.

I would not advise living a life of lies and deciet towards ones parents. You are using them while pursuing your 'education' and will never speak to them again when you have money in your pocket. I assume this is your secular free liberal belief, it's your life, YOLO and the rest of the nonsense you hear.



For sure. Its really sad because he is spreading hate no different to the likes of Tommy Robinson and it's a possibility his hate could be read by someone inspiring that person to attack a Muslim, which could be someone from his own family.

Education in quotation marks, someone sounds bitter or jealous. I am not using them. I will not 'discard' them. I will always send them money even after they kick me out. They are in the wrong, they won't accept that I'm an atheist.

Again, victim mentality. Islam is not untouchable, and I have the same criticisms for Christian and Jewish faith. I just challenge the victimhood on this site, which tends to be Islamic. You think that I'm advocating for violence against Muslims? I dislike ideologies which claim to be immutable and perfect for all time, religious or otherwise, but would never advocate, or want, violence to be committed against people. Nice try bringing my family into this as a guilt trip, but it won't work.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Ha, good one. I have studied probability at uni. You sure try to act clever for someone with no qualifications. If you think criticism of Islamic doctrine as an objective fact for all time is an attack, then this shows your victim mentality.


Education in quotation marks, someone sounds bitter or jealous. I am not using them. I will not 'discard' them. I will always send them money even after they kick me out. They are in the wrong, they won't accept that I'm an atheist.

Again, victim mentality. Islam is not untouchable, and I have the same criticisms for Christian and Jewish faith. I just challenge the victimhood on this site, which tends to be Islamic. You think that I'm advocating for violence against Muslims? I dislike ideologies which claim to be immutable and perfect for all time, religious or otherwise, but would never advocate, or want, violence to be committed against people. Nice try bringing my family into this as a guilt trip, but it won't work.

You mentioned your family so I responded.

You're an athiest, this is illogical as you can not be sure there is no powerful diety or creator. Agnostic makes more sense.

You are spouting the same as the far right, those who hate Islam and those who want to spread hate about the religion. Technics is spot on, we need better laws to combat such things as hate leads to more hate and sometimes to violence. Imgaine you inspired someone to attack Muslims and they happen to be your family? You left Islam, why waste your time discussing it now?

 

[Tubs]

You mentioned your family so I responded.

You're an athiest, this is illogical as you can not be sure there is no powerful diety or creator. Agnostic makes more sense.

You are spouting the same as the far right, those who hate Islam and those who want to spread hate about the religion. Technics is spot on, we need better laws to combat such things as hate leads to more hate and sometimes to violence. Imgaine you inspired someone to attack Muslims and they happen to be your family? You left Islam, why waste your time discussing it now?

If I were to specify, I am an agnostic atheist. It's a common misconception that agnosticism is a position, it is a claim to knowledge. I can't know for sure, but I don't believe in a God.

If someone felt compelled to attack Muslims because I made criticisms of the religion, then the fault is with them and not me. You're trying to silence free speech, and it's disgusting. Many people would suggest that the Quran incites violence, should we ban that? Of course not. I've already made my views clear on the laws so I won't mention that again. I left Islam, yes. I am also allowed to discuss why, and criticise Islam. When people make blanket statements about why Islam is x, y and z I like to challenge those claims and discuss them. Also, many 'ex Muslims' (I try not to use labels when I don't have to, but it's apt here I suppose) can't be public about it due to family reasons (like myself), laws, etc.

Do you truly think I want violence against Muslims? I criticise Christianity just as much on other forums, and a Christian apologist came up to me the other day in town. I brought up Numbers 31:17-18 where Moses tells his people to kill all the men, boys and women who have slept with a man, but keep the virgins for themselves, and she looked at me like I was some monster. My point being, criticism of ideas certainly isn't tantamount to incitement of violence (which of course is a crime).

Before I ask this question I must make it clear that I don't support Tommy Robinson. I support his right to free speech(like I support the right of you to have orthodox Muslim views), but has he actually incited hatred against Muslims? I don't follow him, so I don't know the specifics of what he has said, but I would have thought he would have been arrested if he did (the only arrest I know of what the contempt of court thing a while back).

 

[KingKhanWC]

If I were to specify, I am an agnostic atheist. It's a common misconception that agnosticism is a position, it is a claim to knowledge. I can't know for sure, but I don't believe in a God.

If someone felt compelled to attack Muslims because I made criticisms of the religion, then the fault is with them and not me. You're trying to silence free speech, and it's disgusting. Many people would suggest that the Quran incites violence, should we ban that? Of course not. I've already made my views clear on the laws so I won't mention that again. I left Islam, yes. I am also allowed to discuss why, and criticise Islam. When people make blanket statements about why Islam is x, y and z I like to challenge those claims and discuss them. Also, many 'ex Muslims' (I try not to use labels when I don't have to, but it's apt here I suppose) can't be public about it due to family reasons (like myself), laws, etc.

Do you truly think I want violence against Muslims? I criticise Christianity just as much on other forums, and a Christian apologist came up to me the other day in town. I brought up Numbers 31:17-18 where Moses tells his people to kill all the men, boys and women who have slept with a man, but keep the virgins for themselves, and she looked at me like I was some monster. My point being, criticism of ideas certainly isn't tantamount to incitement of violence (which of course is a crime).

Before I ask this question I must make it clear that I don't support Tommy Robinson. I support his right to free speech(like I support the right of you to have orthodox Muslim views), but has he actually incited hatred against Muslims? I don't follow him, so I don't know the specifics of what he has said, but I would have thought he would have been arrested if he did (the only arrest I know of what the contempt of court thing a while back).

If Muslims have the same protection as Jews, Robinson, Farage and every other fascist would be in jail. If Muslims in the US had the same protection as Jews in the US, Trump would never have been President, he would have been shunned, his business empire broken and vilified. Tommy has been banned from FB, Youtube and other popular networks because he has incited violence.

This is not curtailing free speech but to stop spreading of hatred of religion and it's followers.

You wrote " Nothing can change the fact that Islam at its core has no place in the modern world "

This sentence is one example of fear mongering , spreading hate. Firstly it's not a fact, please look up the definition of a fact. This is your pre-determined opinion based on your negative vibes within.

Second, Islam is in the modern world. There are many types of Muslims who follow Islam, eg. Dubai is more modern than any western city, yet the laws of this city are Islamic laws.

Finally, as a stand alone sentence by a poster who has said it once or a person on social media who has said it once it's not too dangerous but when people like you spend hours and hours of your life criticising Islam, such statements become dangerous.

Do you not accept spouting such rhetoric adds to the hate wheel we now see in the so called civilised worlds towards Islam? Of course it does and therfore you are part of the machine which is inciting and ironically putting your own parents in potential danger. If not for youself but out of respect for your parents, keep you free speech to yourself.

You have gained nothing by your free speech, zilch.

 

[Tubs]

If Muslims have the same protection as Jews, Robinson, Farage and every other fascist would be in jail. If Muslims in the US had the same protection as Jews in the US, Trump would never have been President, he would have been shunned, his business empire broken and vilified. Tommy has been banned from FB, Youtube and other popular networks because he has incited violence.

This is not curtailing free speech but to stop spreading of hatred of religion and it's followers.

You wrote " Nothing can change the fact that Islam at its core has no place in the modern world "

This sentence is one example of fear mongering , spreading hate. Firstly it's not a fact, please look up the definition of a fact. This is your pre-determined opinion based on your negative vibes within.

Second, Islam is in the modern world. There are many types of Muslims who follow Islam, eg. Dubai is more modern than any western city, yet the laws of this city are Islamic laws.

Finally, as a stand alone sentence by a poster who has said it once or a person on social media who has said it once it's not too dangerous but when people like you spend hours and hours of your life criticising Islam, such statements become dangerous.

Do you not accept spouting such rhetoric adds to the hate wheel we now see in the so called civilised worlds towards Islam? Of course it does and therfore you are part of the machine which is inciting and ironically putting your own parents in potential danger. If not for youself but out of respect for your parents, keep you free speech to yourself.

You have gained nothing by your free speech, zilch.

Well, I would say the same about Christianity and Judaism too, if that makes it any better.

I spend 'hours' doing this because you guys get so bent out-of-shape and bombard me with ad hominems and assumptions about me. I am going to respond.

Define 'more modern'. Dubai, the place which holds our people as slaves is modern? Sure, okay.

It shows your immaturity that you think me criticising doctrine is the same as me wanting people attacked? You're such a victim and you don't even know it. Stop being so soft, your deepest feelings can be trodden upon in a free society. You're welcome to do the same to me. The thing is, I am not even being personal, I am just criticising an archaic religion.

Me saying that there are immoralities in the Quran is not 'adding to the hate wheel'. What that idiot Fraser Anning (I think his name was, the Australian senator who posted that terrible message after the NZ terrorist attack) is contributing this 'hate wheel'. Me saying that I don't agree with fundamentalist religion is not. And again bringing my parents into this, nice try but you can't guilt me. What's the point of free speech if I should just keep it to myself? You really are a professional victim. If you can't stand to see criticisms of your religion, then block me or don't read any of my posts regarding religion.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Well, I would say the same about Christianity and Judaism too, if that makes it any better.

I spend 'hours' doing this because you guys get so bent out-of-shape and bombard me with ad hominems and assumptions about me. I am going to respond.

Define 'more modern'. Dubai, the place which holds our people as slaves is modern? Sure, okay.

It shows your immaturity that you think me criticising doctrine is the same as me wanting people attacked? You're such a victim and you don't even know it. Stop being so soft, your deepest feelings can be trodden upon in a free society. You're welcome to do the same to me. The thing is, I am not even being personal, I am just criticising an archaic religion.

Me saying that there are immoralities in the Quran is not 'adding to the hate wheel'. What that idiot Fraser Anning (I think his name was, the Australian senator who posted that terrible message after the NZ terrorist attack) is contributing this 'hate wheel'. Me saying that I don't agree with fundamentalist religion is not. And again bringing my parents into this, nice try but you can't guilt me. What's the point of free speech if I should just keep it to myself? You really are a professional victim. If you can't stand to see criticisms of your religion, then block me or don't read any of my posts regarding religion.

Let me make something clear, I personally have not been a victim because I am more than capable of defending myself just like many other Muslims. The cowards usually attack elderly or females. Muslim men have no fear of right wing fascits, we are not Jews of the 30's.

Take a look at this from 6.00 onwards. If it wasn't for the police protecting those who spread hatred against Islam, they would all be given a good hiding..not that I advise violence but its a reaction to previous violence.

I dont care what you think of Christianity or any other religion but I would suggest not spread the same nonsense against the minority faiths.

Millions of westerners go to Dubai and hundreds of thousands have worked in Dubai. There is no slavery, people are not forced to enter the land and work, it's their choice. If you want to dig deeper why mainly Pakistanis and Indians work in Dubai, its due to the secular 'civilised' west who robbed and looted the lands of these people in times before.

Ive explained to you what you are doing is not criticising but spreading hate, its how you put your views into words. By suggesting the most practised religion in history and today has no place in todays world is not academic crictism but hate speech. If you cannot to better than the likes of Tommy Robinson , you wont be taken seriously by anyone but the likes of those people.

 

[Tubs]

Let me make something clear, I personally have not been a victim because I am more than capable of defending myself just like many other Muslims. The cowards usually attack elderly or females. Muslim men have no fear of right wing fascits, we are not Jews of the 30's.

Take a look at this from 6.00 onwards. If it wasn't for the police protecting those who spread hatred against Islam, they would all be given a good hiding..not that I advise violence but its a reaction to previous violence.

I dont care what you think of Christianity or any other religion but I would suggest not spread the same nonsense against the minority faiths.

Millions of westerners go to Dubai and hundreds of thousands have worked in Dubai. There is no slavery, people are not forced to enter the land and work, it's their choice. If you want to dig deeper why mainly Pakistanis and Indians work in Dubai, its due to the secular 'civilised' west who robbed and looted the lands of these people in times before.

Ive explained to you what you are doing is not criticising but spreading hate, its how you put your views into words. By suggesting the most practised religion in history and today has no place in todays world is not academic crictism but hate speech. If you cannot to better than the likes of Tommy Robinson , you wont be taken seriously by anyone but the likes of those people.

Easy there tough guy. And it's really rich that you bring in the Jews, you obviously have a huge hatred for them. And you, and Muslims as a whole, have never gone through anything like Jews did in the 30's, so stop acting like you guys are so tough and brave.

Yeah, a bunch of idiots there. I'm pretty sure they're allowed to protest and rally, and the police did their job to make sure no one got attacked. If Tommy Robinson's crew attacked someone, it would be wrong and I would condemn it. What's your point here? I was just asking for anything Tommy said which incited hate (I don't deny that he has, I just don't have any direct quotes of what he has said regarding inciting hatred against Muslims).

Hahaha, you have to bring in the West again. You really do hate the country you live in (I wonder why you won't leave). Yes, atrocities were committed but that's not an argument. The terrible treatment of migrant workers in Dubai and other gulf nations (who are predominately of South Asian descent) is well documented (treatment is tantamount to slavery, hidden contracts, taking passports, terrible living conditions and wages, etc) and you can't blame the west for that.

You really are trying your best to represent me as some far right loony. If you want me to specify my statement, I meant that Islamic doctrine and practices has no place in the modern world. Examples of such practices are lashing adulterers and homosexuals (though major schools of thought approve of hudud punishment, stoning in this case, which are prescribed in sahih hadith), cutting off hands of thieves, gender inequality (women's testimony being half of a man, awrah of men and women being significantly different, men owning women, etc), wife beating (Quran 4:34, and there is a hadith which said that women shouldn't hit their husbands, only warn them and Allah will do the rest, I wonder why it wasn't the same for men), jizya (the tasfir (Ibn Kathir) for the jizya verse (9:29) says that the jizya is to disgrace the dhimmi, and to show that the dhimmi can never reach the level of Muslims, but remember, you said Shariah is more just that secular democracy!), and slavery (mentioned throughout the Quran, Muhammad had many slaves and even referred to black people (a slave in this context) as having a head like a raisin). This is criticism of the religion, I never mentioned Muslims as people. So stop strawmanning what I'm saying, it won't work. If someone can't take my criticisms seriously after I've provided evidence from scripture, then they're being willfully ignorant and dishonest.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Easy there tough guy. And it's really rich that you bring in the Jews, you obviously have a huge hatred for them. And you, and Muslims as a whole, have never gone through anything like Jews did in the 30's, so stop acting like you guys are so tough and brave.

Yeah, a bunch of idiots there. I'm pretty sure they're allowed to protest and rally, and the police did their job to make sure no one got attacked. If Tommy Robinson's crew attacked someone, it would be wrong and I would condemn it. What's your point here? I was just asking for anything Tommy said which incited hate (I don't deny that he has, I just don't have any direct quotes of what he has said regarding inciting hatred against Muslims).

Hahaha, you have to bring in the West again. You really do hate the country you live in (I wonder why you won't leave). Yes, atrocities were committed but that's not an argument. The terrible treatment of migrant workers in Dubai and other gulf nations (who are predominately of South Asian descent) is well documented (treatment is tantamount to slavery, hidden contracts, taking passports, terrible living conditions and wages, etc) and you can't blame the west for that.

You really are trying your best to represent me as some far right loony. If you want me to specify my statement, I meant that Islamic doctrine and practices has no place in the modern world. Examples of such practices are lashing adulterers and homosexuals (though major schools of thought approve of hudud punishment, stoning in this case, which are prescribed in sahih hadith), cutting off hands of thieves, gender inequality (women's testimony being half of a man, awrah of men and women being significantly different, men owning women, etc), wife beating (Quran 4:34, and there is a hadith which said that women shouldn't hit their husbands, only warn them and Allah will do the rest, I wonder why it wasn't the same for men), jizya (the tasfir (Ibn Kathir) for the jizya verse (9:29) says that the jizya is to disgrace the dhimmi, and to show that the dhimmi can never reach the level of Muslims, but remember, you said Shariah is more just that secular democracy!), and slavery (mentioned throughout the Quran, Muhammad had many slaves and even referred to black people (a slave in this context) as having a head like a raisin). This is criticism of the religion, I never mentioned Muslims as people. So stop strawmanning what I'm saying, it won't work. If someone can't take my criticisms seriously after I've provided evidence from scripture, then they're being willfully ignorant and dishonest.

I stopped reading after the 3rd paragraph. A typical trick of Islamaphobic nutters is to divert every thread in quoting verses from hates sites, wont wash with me and neither do I care what you think.

You keep on abusing the religion of your parents and laugh at them every time they put their head on the floor to pray for your well being. Your love of the secular life and desires of this world is more important than your own parents. I feel sorry for them. Nothing more to add really.

 

[Technics 1210]

I stopped reading after the 3rd paragraph. A typical trick of Islamaphobic nutters is to divert every thread in quoting verses from hates sites, wont wash with me and neither do I care what you think.

You keep on abusing the religion of your parents and laugh at them every time they put their head on the floor to pray for your well being. Your love of the secular life and desires of this world is more important than your own parents. I feel sorry for them. Nothing more to add really.

I stopped reading after the 2nd sentence. As you say, typical Islamophobic trait, blame Muslims for everything that has happened to the Jews. The irony being he doesn't realise the OP calls for Islamophobia to be made illegal, just like antisemitism is illegal.

 

[Tubs]

I stopped reading after the 3rd paragraph. A typical trick of Islamaphobic nutters is to divert every thread in quoting verses from hates sites, wont wash with me and neither do I care what you think.

You keep on abusing the religion of your parents and laugh at them every time they put their head on the floor to pray for your well being. Your love of the secular life and desires of this world is more important than your own parents. I feel sorry for them. Nothing more to add really.

Haha, again, you bring up my parents to try and guilt trip me. They are entitled to their opinion, I am entitled to mine. Funny that you won't respond to the criticisms I make of Islam because you know they're indefensible.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I stopped reading after the 2nd sentence. As you say, typical Islamophobic trait, blame Muslims for everything that has happened to the Jews. The irony being he doesn't realise the OP calls for Islamophobia to be made illegal, just like antisemitism is illegal.

Tommy Robinson who probably never passed any GCSEs can do a better job. The difference is you can slightly forgive Tommy because he was never a Muslim, has no Muslims in his family, therefore no issues if Muslims are subjected to discrimination or voilence. Then we have these so called Ex Muslims who spend more time discussing a religion they left than those who practice the faith.

I dont understand why these ex Muslims dont sit down with their family, relatives and friends to show them the light but are always on social media or forum trying to save the world. Quackpots imo.

 

[Tubs]

I stopped reading after the 2nd sentence. As you say, typical Islamophobic trait, blame Muslims for everything that has happened to the Jews. The irony being he doesn't realise the OP calls for Islamophobia to be made illegal, just like antisemitism is illegal.

Another strawman. I never blamed Muslims for anything. He just made a false equivalency, and equated Jews being hunted by the Nazis as them being fearful? And I already established that criticism of the Jewish faith shouldn't be illegal. Things get more murky when it comes to ethnicity(some people say Jews are an ethnicity, some say they aren't), but I also believe that offensive comments (i.e someone calling me a '****') regarding ethnicity shouldn't be illegal either.

Funny that you both 'stop reading' before the religious claims that you can't refute.

 

[Tubs]

I stopped reading after the 3rd paragraph. A typical trick of Islamaphobic nutters is to divert every thread in quoting verses from hates sites, wont wash with me and neither do I care what you think.

You keep on abusing the religion of your parents and laugh at them every time they put their head on the floor to pray for your well being. Your love of the secular life and desires of this world is more important than your own parents. I feel sorry for them. Nothing more to add really.

Forgot to mention, all of the points I made are from the Quran and the (sahih) hadith. So if you call them hateful then go ahead.

 

[Tubs]

Tommy Robinson who probably never passed any GCSEs can do a better job. The difference is you can slightly forgive Tommy because he was never a Muslim, has no Muslims in his family, therefore no issues if Muslims are subjected to discrimination or voilence. Then we have these so called Ex Muslims who spend more time discussing a religion they left than those who practice the faith.

I dont understand why these ex Muslims dont sit down with their family, relatives and friends to show them the light but are always on social media or forum trying to save the world. Quackpots imo.

Apologies for the triple post, missed this one.

I already told you that my parents would kick me out, or even attack me. I'd rather that not happen. Again, I never advocated violence against any group of people, so that's another lie.

Muslims can give dawah, but I can't talk about criticisms of Islam (and other religions) because it hurts your feelings? Aww, there there.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Apologies for the triple post, missed this one.

I already told you that my parents would kick me out, or even attack me. I'd rather that not happen. Again, I never advocated violence against any group of people, so that's another lie.

Muslims can give dawah, but I can't talk about criticisms of Islam (and other religions) because it hurts your feelings? Aww, there there.

I was dicussing ex Muslims in general not you. Im not interested in clarifying the meaning of verses or defending Islam to you because I dont care and it's not interesting. You can find such foolish claims and such statements on youtube videos.

You wrote there is no place for Islam in todays world. So I assume your parents are not good people beause of their religion?

 

[Technics 1210]

Tommy Robinson who probably never passed any GCSEs can do a better job. The difference is you can slightly forgive Tommy because he was never a Muslim, has no Muslims in his family, therefore no issues if Muslims are subjected to discrimination or voilence. Then we have these so called Ex Muslims who spend more time discussing a religion they left than those who practice the faith.

I dont understand why these ex Muslims dont sit down with their family, relatives and friends to show them the light but are always on social media or forum trying to save the world. Quackpots imo.

At least Tommy is upfront about it, the worst kind of hatred is the veiled hatred as demonstrated here.

What I do not understand is if someone has decided to leave their faith, why are they hell bent on spreading hate and abuse towards their x-faith. It's as if they have a point to prove, but then again hatred is a deep rooted emotion triggered by insecurity.

 

[KingKhanWC]

At least Tommy is upfront about it, the worst kind of hatred is the veiled hatred as demonstrated here.

What I do not understand is if someone has decided to leave their faith, why are they hell bent on spreading hate and abuse towards their x-faith. It's as if they have a point to prove, but then again hatred is a deep rooted emotion triggered by insecurity.

There could be a number of reasons, a lot of ex Muslims are just not very good people who want to get away from their families for 'freedom'. They always say their families are very strict or very religious. They prob feel they have missed out on certain things in life because of how strict their religious parents were and are now on some sort of A team revenge mission. There are others who are very insecure and want to fit in to the point they not only reject their faith but forget the colour of their skin until they see a mirror. Sure each individual has their own jackanory but these are the two types I have come across.

What they and Islamaphobes dont understand is no matter how much hate filled publicity they give, people are not turning away in numbers and I would be happy to guess many more people are becoming Muslims than those who are outright rejecting it after practicising it.

 

[Technics 1210]

There could be a number of reasons, a lot of ex Muslims are just not very good people who want to get away from their families for 'freedom'. They always say their families are very strict or very religious. They prob feel they have missed out on certain things in life because of how strict their religious parents were and are now on some sort of A team revenge mission. There are others who are very insecure and want to fit in to the point they not only reject their faith but forget the colour of their skin until they see a mirror. Sure each individual has their own jackanory but these are the two types I have come across.

What they and Islamaphobes dont understand is no matter how much hate filled publicity they give, people are not turning away in numbers and I would be happy to guess many more people are becoming Muslims than those who are outright rejecting it after practicising it.

Very good point. Islam is the fastest growing religion, which is why laws against Islamophobia are needed quick time.

 

[Tubs]

Hahaha, you guys are awfully good at making assumptions and psychoanalysing people. I have never once advocated for violence, but you can make up lies all you want. While we're on the topic, you are the ones who constantly talk about Indians as a monolith. If anything, you guys are inciting hatred against Indians as you overtly display your hatred for them. They are people, not an ideology. But it's okay when you do it because some Hindus are discriminating against Muslims (which I find deplorable).

Regarding my parents (again), I believe their doctrine has no place in the modern world, yes, but I never said anything about Muslims not being welcome in the West. Again, you keep conflating the religion and its followers. You understand the distinction, you are just a professional victim.

And you really used the 'race traitor' argument. That is ridiculous as there are converts to Islam from all races and ethnicities. Your arguments hold no weight but you continue to keep sucking up to each other, it's very cute.

Islam being the fastest growing religion is mostly attributed to the birth rate and apostates not being able to be public about their true thoughts and feelings due to apostasy laws.

I'm glad you guys accept that you can't refute the claims I made, looks like we are done here. Go ask a scholar to perform some mental gymnastics to make Islam seem peaceful.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Very good point. Islam is the fastest growing religion, which is why laws against Islamophobia are needed quick time.

It really annoys Islamaphobes when people convert esp people such as this chap. Interesting watch.

 

[Technics 1210]

Hahaha, you guys are awfully good at making assumptions and psychoanalysing people. I have never once advocated for violence, but you can make up lies all you want.

Dear student, Islamophoba is not about advocating violence, it is about discrimination based on Islam and spreading hate masquerading as criticism is a good example, as you very well know.

A+ for your efforts though.

 

[Technics 1210]

It really annoys Islamaphobes when people convert esp people such as this chap. Interesting watch.

I watched this video a few months back, and it is amazing to see. I find the reasons for conversion far more interesting then reasons for hate towards Islam.

If the mainstream media would promote such news, then it would be the perfect tonic fighting Islamophobia. Instead MSM promote the right to offend under the guise of free speech.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Very good point. Islam is the fastest growing religion, which is why laws against Islamophobia are needed quick time.

Atheism is growing faster than Islam across the world. Besides, what is the advantage in numbers when you are not contributing anything to the modern world?

 

[The_Odd_One]

There could be a number of reasons, a lot of ex Muslims are just not very good people who want to get away from their families for 'freedom'. They always say their families are very strict or very religious. They prob feel they have missed out on certain things in life because of how strict their religious parents were and are now on some sort of A team revenge mission. There are others who are very insecure and want to fit in to the point they not only reject their faith but forget the colour of their skin until they see a mirror. Sure each individual has their own jackanory but these are the two types I have come across.

What they and Islamaphobes dont understand is no matter how much hate filled publicity they give, people are not turning away in numbers and I would be happy to guess many more people are becoming Muslims than those who are outright rejecting it after practicising it.

What a judgmental post. People are turning away from religions including Islam because religions were made for ancient people. Religion has zero evidence for God and unnecessary prohibitions for followers. Religion was the answer when science was not advanced enough to answer questions in nature. Therefore, everything became supernatural at that time. When children are young, they are programmed by their parents. They believe everything their parent told them. As they grow up and get exposure to outside world, they realize how foolish were some of the things that their parents practiced.

Religious people are the biggest hypocrites. They take the word of their God over science, yet when they are in any kind of trouble they turn toward science. Next time when a Muslim gets cancer, try reciting Quranic verses rather than getting a chemotherapy and then see what happens.