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The all-rounder Pakistan needs - Mohammad Amir?

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Saj

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We say that we need a genuine pace bowling all-rounder in all formats and have been hunting for that player for a while now.

Perhaps we have been looking too hard, perhaps that all-rounder is already in our ranks?

I've always felt that Amir can become that all-rounder if he works a little harder on his batting and improves his concentration when at the crease.

His technique is good. He has a fine array of shots. His defence is solid.

Maybe with some better application and more self-belief he can become a genuine all-rounder?
 
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He should be our number 8 in the odi series :

1. Azhar Ali
2. Sharjeel Khan
3. Babar Azam
4. Malik
5. Sarfaraz
6. Umar Akmal
7. Imad Wasim
8. Amir
9. Wahab Riaz
10. Hassan Ali
11. Asghar
 
He is a bowling all-rounder. What Pakistan needs is a Stokes/Marsh type all-rounder.
 
Saj said:
We say that we need a genuine pace bowling all-rounder in all formats and have been hunting for that player for a while now.

Perhaps we have been looking too hard, perhaps that all-rounder is already in our ranks?

I've always felt that Amir can become that all-rounder if he works a little harder on his batting and improves his concentration when at the crease.

His technique is good. He has a fine array of shots. His defence is solid.

Maybe with some better application and more self-belief he can become a genuine all-rounder?
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I agree - I have said this before aboout Amir (and to a lesser extent about Wahab/Yasir)

Another good knock by Amir was in the 444 chase against England at Headingley where he scored a fine half century whilst chasing.

As you said - he has a good defence and can play all the big shots and slog too. Just needs to work on consistency and avoid fishing outside the off stump that he usually does.
 
msb314 said:
I agree - I have said this before aboout Amir (and to a lesser extent about Wahab/Yasir)

Another good knock by Amir was in the 444 chase against England at Headingley where he scored a fine half century whilst chasing.

As you said - he has a good defence and can play all the big shots and slog too. Just needs to work on consistency and avoid fishing outside the off stump that he usually does.
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All our batsman have habit of fishing ouside off stump or playing flashy drives. Lol
 
He is a bowler who can bat .
Pakistan must leave him as he is.

He should be batting at number 9 . Number 8 should be a bowling all rounder.
 
He's got the skills, but he's more of a solid #9.

You need a genuine allrounder in front of him in a perfect XI.
 
He is just a bowler who can bat, he is a good tail ender, nothing more and very likely that he'll stay like this his whole career.
 
he is not a all rounder, ll contribute with 20s,30s here n there but mostly ll fall in single digit scores.
 
Every other country in the world has tailenders who can contribute a little with the bat. That's all he will be for Pakistan.
 
Amir looks pretty average against spinners, against good spinning bowling he usually just blocks and blocks and can't score off them.
 
Amir should focus on his bowling. If he can average 10-20 runs in batting with his current level then that's more than enough. Don't need a new Irfan Pathan.
 
endymion248 said:
Amir should focus on his bowling. If he can average 10-20 runs in batting with his current level then that's more than enough. Don't need a new Irfan Pathan.
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True but a little bit of effort put into his batting won't do much harm
 
As I said in match thread if amir works hard he can end up as poor man's wasim akram as allrounder. That in itself will be great.
 
Misbah on Amir

"Always rated Amir as a good all-rounder, I believe he has ability with the bat. I've been talking to him since the England series to concentrate and check yourself as a batsman. He has a good defence, he has shots. The only thing he needs is a change of mindset and he can score runs. He has everything. I am pretty happy with his batting, specially character shown by him and Wahab." -

See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...thing-quot-Misbah-ul-Haq#sthash.AFgqIUGf.dpuf
 
Like I said in another post on the same topic a couple of days ago, let bowlers do their job. We need to find genuine all rounders who come into the team as all rounders and who train their entire life as all rounders, not convert bowlers into batsmen. If he performs good with the bat, good. If not, not a problem because that's not your job. Don't want another Irfan Pathan in the making. Especially not with our best bowler. Look at the English cricket team.. There is a reason there are specialists. Even all rounders are specialist all rounders.

The best of teams only play one all rounder. The specialist All Rounder. Even Pakistan of the 80's played one, the best ever Imran Khan. Wasim was no mug with the bat but was just a bowler who could bat. Had they concentrated on his batting more he could've averaged in the mid 30's because a 254 against a strong Zim side says it all but Imran Khan knew that he wouldn't be the bowler that he was if they did so and they weren't going to risk that for some more runs from him.
 
I think Amir can develop his batting and there is no reason to pigeonhole him as a bowler who can bat. Pakistan cricket has many examples of players who started out as bowlers primarily then went on to do well as batsmen. Asif Iqbal is probably the best example but one could also include Imran Khan and Nasimul Ghani.
 
At best he can be like a Mitchel Johnson. Not exactly an all-rounder but handy with the bat
 
hur rizvi said:
Wasim was a bowling All-rounder. Amir is far from that atm.
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I don't know about far from that part, how many times Wasim has scored 40+ in Australia and England?? - At Oval he had 100 run partnership with YK, here in GABBA he had 100+ with Shafiq, first innings he had 60 runs out of total 142. He is playing only 6 months ago after long break.

If he had been playing alll those years by now, he would have been ahead of Wasim in batting.
 
Fahdi said:
At best he can be like a Mitchel Johnson. Not exactly an all-rounder but handy with the bat
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Lazy batter like Amit Mishra(21) has an average of 8 higher than Amir (13). No one in their right mind ever called Ojha being in the vicinity of being an all rounder.
 
yasir said:
I don't know about far from that part, how many times Wasim has scored 40+ in Australia and England?? - At Oval he had 100 run partnership with YK, here in GABBA he had 100+ with Shafiq, first innings he had 60 runs out of total 142. He is playing only 6 months ago after long break.

If he had been playing alll those years by now, he would have been ahead of Wasim in batting.
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Wasim has a century in Australia if I remember correctly.

Amir doesnt have raw ability with the bat that wasim had
 
If Yasir , wahab , amir can score 15 - 20 runs , that will be enough.

I think Yasir is the one who should work hard to develop his batting. That is because he is playing only one format , he has more time to work on batting. Pakistan management must tell him that .
 
Sohail khan is not the all rounder that Pakistan deserves, but the all rounder that Pakistan needs.
 
He's a handy bat, but to be an all rounder IMO you need to be good enough to bat in the top 7, and Amir shouldn't be played higher than 8. Ashwin, Stokes, Moeen Ali, Shakib all have batted in the top 6, if you promote Amir that far he'll be a nightwatchman

Woakes is probably the best bowler who can bat in the world right now and I wouldn't play him any higher than 7.
 
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Amir with batting average 13.80 is far from being AR. A bowling AR should average atleast 25.
 
jeetu said:
Amir with batting average 13.80 is far from being AR. A bowling AR should average atleast 25.
Click to expand...

A team with legendary all rounders Wasim Akram and Imran Khan calls a player with 13 avg. an all rounder :facepalm: .
Pakistan has had good actual all rounders .. Azhar Mahmood also comes to mind, even shoaib Malik and Mohd. Hafeez were handy at their peaks!

Calling Amir an all rounder .. ... :yk2
 
I would be more worried about Amir going the Irfran Pathan way.

They tried to make too much of him, and he lost his bowling as well.

Better for Amir to focus on his bowling instead of trying to do batting/bowling and all the other things.
 
aloo paratha said:
He is just a bowler who can bat, he is a good tail ender, nothing more and very likely that he'll stay like this his whole career.
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A bowler who can bat is generally regarded as an all-rounder.

He's better than a tail ender. Tail enders are the likes of Rahat Ali.
 
jeetu said:
Amir with batting average 13.80 is far from being AR. A bowling AR should average atleast 25.
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Work in progress. As I say, the potential is there, he just needs to work on his batting and take it a little more seriously.
 
Granted his average does not indicate that he is a batsman and he still has a way to go particularly in developing his defence, but there is no reason why he cannot improve his batting substantially. As I have indicated, Pakistan cricket is full of examples of players who started out as bowlers and then developed their batting skills significantly. Among these players one can include Asif Iqbal, Majid Khan, Imran Khan, Nasimul Ghani,Wasim Akram, Shoaib Malik. Look up their records and you will see how they started out and how their batting developed through their careers. There is a reason for this--many Pakistani players do not become the finished article until they are able to develop their game in a more challenging and conducive cricket environment. The best example of course was the period when a lot of Pakistanis played in English county cricket. But bowlers developing their batting skills significantly is not just a Pakistani phenomenon. Both Steve Smith and Ravi Ashwin started out more as bowlers and Smith is now primarily a batsman while Ashwin is doing very well with the bat. It was good to see that good sense finally prevailed and Amir was finally sent to bat before Wahab. If he bats at 7 or 8 we can expect to see that average climb Inshallah.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
I would be more worried about Amir going the Irfran Pathan way.

They tried to make too much of him, and he lost his bowling as well.

Better for Amir to focus on his bowling instead of trying to do batting/bowling and all the other things.
Click to expand...

Rest assured that Pak will not send Amir at number 3 like India tried to do with Irfan Pathan.
 
Amir's not comparable to Wasim or Johnson. He's quite capable but inferior to them. His limit is becoming a bowling allrounder. But those two if they dedicated enough time to the craft would easily have become genuine allrounders. They were also powerful strikers of the ball which Amir doesn't have the physique for.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Amir's not comparable to Wasim or Johnson. He's quite capable but inferior to them. His limit is becoming a bowling allrounder. But those two if they dedicated enough time to the craft would easily have become genuine allrounders. They were also powerful strikers of the ball which Amir doesn't have the physique for.
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I disagree. Amir has shown at times good technique and you can see if he really put his mind to it, he can become a handy batsman. Also you dont need to have a muscular physique to hit sixes. Against England if I remember correctly, he hit our fastest ever ODI fifty after Afridi. This included sixes of Rashid where he had to generate the power himself to clear the rope.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Amir's not comparable to Wasim or Johnson. He's quite capable but inferior to them. His limit is becoming a bowling allrounder. But those two if they dedicated enough time to the craft would easily have become genuine allrounders. They were also powerful strikers of the ball which Amir doesn't have the physique for.
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Not that easy. If they had worked too much on batting , there bowling would have suffered.
 
Boom boom legend said:
I disagree. Amir has shown at times good technique and you can see if he really put his mind to it, he can become a handy batsman. Also you dont need to have a muscular physique to hit sixes. Against England if I remember correctly, he hit our fastest ever ODI fifty after Afridi. This included sixes of Rashid where he had to generate the power himself to clear the rope.
Click to expand...

If Amir can chip in with 20 - 25 runs consistently he has done his job.
 
Boom boom legend said:
I disagree. Amir has shown at times good technique and you can see if he really put his mind to it, he can become a handy batsman. Also you dont need to have a muscular physique to hit sixes. Against England if I remember correctly, he hit our fastest ever ODI fifty after Afridi. This included sixes of Rashid where he had to generate the power himself to clear the rope.
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A bowling allrounder is more than a handy batsman.

I did not say he isn't capable of hitting boundaries just that Amir will not be able to match their level of hitting power.
 
The spectrum of all rounders:

0. All rounders who can neither bat nor ball E.g. Anwar Ali
1. Bowlers who are not world beaters with the bat, but are not mugs either. E.g. Wahab Riaz, Yasir Shah
2. Bowlers who can bat, and can frequently deliver some memorable batting innings E.g. Amir, Bilawal Bhatti, Wasim
3. All rounders who are decent with the bat and ball and deliver regularly (Stokes, Irfan Pathan, Jaddu).
4. All rounders who are exceptional with both bat and ball, and deliever more often than not (Imran, Kallis, Watson, Ashwin)
5. Batsmen who can bowl, and can frequently deliver some memorable bowling innings E.g. Hafeez, Malik, Mathews, Moeen Ali
6. Batsmen who are not world beaters with the ball, but are not mugs either. E.g. Gayle, Raina, JP Duminy
7. All rounders who do well in shampoo ads. E.g. Afridi.
 
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Wasim was a power hitter. He could hit sixes/boundaries at will. But Amir has the potential to match him.
 
s28 said:
Misbah on Amir

"Always rated Amir as a good all-rounder, I believe he has ability with the bat. I've been talking to him since the England series to concentrate and check yourself as a batsman. He has a good defence, he has shots. The only thing he needs is a change of mindset and he can score runs. He has everything. I am pretty happy with his batting, specially character shown by him and Wahab." -

See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...thing-quot-Misbah-ul-Haq#sthash.AFgqIUGf.dpuf
Click to expand...

It's good that the captain recognizes his batting ability.

But what i don't want is that another Irfan Pathan is not created.Pakistan needs an old Aamir of 2010 more than anything else and his endeavor should be centered around this goal.I don't mind if he polishes his batting after taking care of his bowling because he is yet to regain his old mojo.
 
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jeetu said:
Amir with batting average 13.80 is far from being AR. A bowling AR should average atleast 25.
Click to expand...

Yes and that's what he needs to work on.

At the moment his batting has potential as we have seen of late, but he needs to add consistency to it.
 
I think Amir has good enough technique and requesite reflexes for a batsman.

It's just that he is a 90mph+ bowler who can swing ball and win match in single spell. And that is more valuable than any batsman ever. Expecting him to perform like an all-rounder will bring different level of pressure.

Let him play at 8 for some time and focus on bowling for now and work on his batting off season and during premier leagues.
 
sure, he'll make a kam chalau all-arounder, so will yasir. the all-arounder you really need is Nawaz.
 
Man this guy is dynamite with the bat.. love how he takes on the bowlers!!

'Jigla hai Jigla' :jm
 
I am awake at 1 am enjoying Amir's batting, now this rain break again. That's it for tonight, first day of working week in am. Amir was really going great guns.
 
I thought I'll hit the hay after Sarfaraz's dismissal, but Amir kept me up with his beautiful counter attacking batting.

Then mother nature took mercy on the Aussies.
 
Syed1 said:
I thought I'll hit the hay after Sarfaraz's dismissal, but Amir kept me up with his beautiful counter attacking batting.

Then mother nature took mercy on the Aussies.
Click to expand...

To be honest Amir is playing pacers better than Sarfraz. Sarfraz is king of spinners but seamer, he is not up to the mark.

Even in odi, Amir and Sohail can slog better than Sarfraz in last 10 overs, probably we will see that during odi series.
 
I'll reiterate what many have said above, he's a bowler who can bat a bit. Expecting him to become a genuine allrounder could be counterproductive as it'll minimize the potency of his bowling. Let him contribute as much as he can without the burden of expectations weighing him down.

He should focus on his primary weapon for the time being which he's been assigned to do and if he can follow it up by scoring 15-20 runs with the bat, that's more than enough. Last thing we need is to groom a bits and pieces cricketer not proficient in either departments.

If the management is smart, they'll instruct him to polish in his primary craft and work on getting back his bowling mojo of 2010 without worrying too much about his batting, but we Pakistanis always go overboard and start expecting too much which always leads to disappointments.

Hope Amir is sane enough to not get carried away with the appraisal and concentrate on his bowling expertise and not burden himself under the weight of expectations centered around his performance with the bat.
 
asfandyar said:
The spectrum of all rounders:

0. All rounders who can neither bat nor ball E.g. Anwar Ali
1. Bowlers who are not world beaters with the bat, but are not mugs either. E.g. Wahab Riaz, Yasir Shah
2. Bowlers who can bat, and can frequently deliver some memorable batting innings E.g. Amir, Bilawal Bhatti, Wasim
3. All rounders who are decent with the bat and ball and deliver regularly (Stokes, Irfan Pathan, Jaddu).
4. All rounders who are exceptional with both bat and ball, and deliever more often than not (Imran, Kallis, Watson, Ashwin)
5. Batsmen who can bowl, and can frequently deliver some memorable bowling innings E.g. Hafeez, Malik, Mathews, Moeen Ali
6. Batsmen who are not world beaters with the ball, but are not mugs either. E.g. Gayle, Raina, JP Duminy
7. All rounders who do well in shampoo ads. E.g. Afridi.
Click to expand...

really? decent with bat and bowl and r regular... u couldnt find any1 better than irfan pathan and jadeja?
pathan was a 1 season wonder and jadeja will only perform on dirt roads of india... anywhere else he is equal/inferior to Mo Ali.

for no3, i would put stokes + Woakes + Sakib + Broad + Jhonson + Corey Anderson + Philander + Matthews
 
Mickey Arthur clearly sees him as an all-rounder thus the promotion to seven even ahead of Sohail Khan who has been very good with the bat recently
 
Hopefully Aamir can be what Woakes / Broad / Jhonson have done in the past for their teams.. made very very very crucial and regular runs.... u never know if he can graduate to stokes level maybe (xtremly difficult) and the Imran-Kallis levels is next to impossible ... but u never knw again.. he is the wonder kid , given he is doing better than 80% of the bowlers in the world at the min even after 5 years lay off... lets see
 
He needs to work on his bowling much more than his batting or we might get another abdur razzaq
 
Wasim Raja-esque.

No seriously, he is capable of useful lower order contributions. He's not just hacking at the ball, but playing proper cricket shots.

Maybe you could promote him to 8 in ODIs and encourage him to develop his batting. Yes his core purpose is bowling but this is such a Pakistani mindset - you are seeing more and more all round cricketers in the world, there's no reason why he can't develop both disciplines. We are in dire need of a bowling AR.
 
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I like his approach. He got lucky today but there is no point in playing defensive cricket as a tail-ender.
 
Comparisons to Mitchell Johnson or Akram are probably too ambitious - they had the potential to take the game away from the opposition in one session though they fell short of being genuine all rounders by quite sensibly focussing on their bowling.

What we can hope for he reaches the level of Warne or Sarfraz Nawaz who averaged around 18, and were capable of half centuries, stoic resistance as well as attacking cameos depending on circumstances and established themselves as capable No.8s (though Sarfraz usually batted lower due to the presence of all rounders Mushtaq Mohammad, Wasim Bari and Imran Khan).
 
This is getting serious Amir Botham Amir Khan Amir Dev Richard Amir
I'll be more than happy if he becomes Freddie Amir

Looks like Amir can avg. 25-30 with bat
 
Still don't think that he is a proper all-rounder yet but he has developed into a very fine batsman lately.

Quite handy to have him in the lower order.
 
He should bat at 8 in odi:

1. Azhar Ali
2. Sharjeel Khan
3. Babar Azam
4. Malik
5. Sarfaraz
6. Umar Akmal
7. Imad Wasim
8. Amir
9. Sohail Khan
10. Wahab Riaz
11. Hassan Ali
 
He is currently averaging about 15 in test , He should aim for 20 at least.
That will be pretty good for number 8 .
 
I believe he is averaging over 20 since his comeback.

Even if he gets out early in this innings his average in Australia this series is going to be 30s
 
Sarfraz and him are great addition to Test cricket. With the addition of Sohail Khan we bat all the way to 11.

If only spots 4 and 5 were not easy wickets.
 
The key to his batting has been that he is playing his shots and not looking to blindly defend. Our tailenders just don't have the defence and cannot survive in alien conditions, they should just look to play their shots most of the time and should have the ability to defend 1-2 deliveries per over provided a seasoned batsman at the other end is batting well and batting with the tail.
 
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