The battle of the keepers, Rishabh Pant versus Mohammad Rizwan

[Extreme Pace]

It is extremely obvious that Pant is going to have a hell of a white ball career as well, there is no possibility of that not happening.

Only a career-threatening injury (which will thus end his Test career as well) will prevent him from having a world class white ball career.

How is that obvious ? He has an extremely poor domestic List A record to go with poor showing in ODIs. Doesn't have the temperament for ODIs. In fact its only a matter of time before teams recognize this and set choking fields in Test matches too. He doesn't have enough of a cricketing brain once you choke him. Pretty mediocre player as was clear on the tour of England and New Zealand. No technique against seam/swing and no brain when he can't score.

 

[Mesozoic]

Rizwan is slightly better because of keeping

Sohail Nazeer has better potential than both.

I'm unable to find that gem brother [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] dropped a few months ago.....

 

[Saurav]

Pant is improving keeping

 

[Bigboii]

Saved a test in Australia ?

100 in Aus, saved pak a test match recently against SA

This is better

 

[Pakhs]

Pant misses 2 catches per match ? How did you come to this ? He may even miss 3 per match, I don't know. Can you show proof of your statement

Is this even debatable? He misses two chances per match and hence India has not been playing him as much until recently. And now he has become a must not because he has improved his keeping but because of his batting performances.

He is definitely not a genuine keeper but someone who can keep for now.

 

[Pakhs]

Pant is improving keeping

He must his batting is good but not so good that he can have a great career for team like India with this level of keeping. The amount of chances he misses currently will catch up with him sooner or latter. The batting for will dip at some point and he will come under severe pressure.

 

[Mamoon]

How is that obvious ? He has an extremely poor domestic List A record to go with poor showing in ODIs. Doesn't have the temperament for ODIs. In fact its only a matter of time before teams recognize this and set choking fields in Test matches too. He doesn't have enough of a cricketing brain once you choke him. Pretty mediocre player as was clear on the tour of England and New Zealand. No technique against seam/swing and no brain when he can't score.

The reason why he hasn’t been consistent in Limited Overs cricket so far is because he hasn’t really found his game in those formats. He bats with a cluttered mind and doesn’t know how to plan his innings. He either gets overly aggressive or overly defensive.

He is only 23 years old and is only now beginning to understand his game. In spite of that, he has already done things in his short Test career that most WK batsmen can only dream of.

His best years are ahead of him and because he is an ultra-talented player, he will find his game in all three formats and is going to terrorize teams in all formats over the next 10-12 years.

Don’t bet on him getting found out in Test cricket and going downhill from here. He won’t. He is going to be a phenomenal player and reach the heights of Gilchrist.

 

[Bigboii]

Both are important for their teams and perfect players for their team in current balance.

In future things might change but currently they both fulfill the exact roles needed.

England though is blessed with all types of WK... other countries don’t enjoy that riches.

This we can't afford Pant
Rizwan is a bit more dependable rn but ICT already have tons of dependable batsman they need a dasher who can change innings and it's result in a session but he is not the most dependable but with Pakistan we need a conservative, gritty batsman who can bail us out of trouble on a regular basis while batting with tail

 

[Bigboii]

Technically shoddy? What's wrong with his technique?

Watch him bat man he isn't all there teqnique wise
But he is gritty as hell! Would never give up

 

[Romali_rotti]

Is this even debatable? He misses two chances per match

Again Proof ?..

 

[Pakhs]

The reason why he hasn’t been consistent in Limited Overs cricket so far is because he hasn’t really found his game in those formats. He bats with a cluttered mind and doesn’t know how to plan his innings. He either gets overly aggressive or overly defensive.

He is only 23 years old and is only now beginning to understand his game. In spite of that, he has already done things in his short Test career that most WK batsmen can only dream of.

His best years are ahead of him and because he is an ultra-talented player, he will find his game in all three formats and is going to terrorize teams in all formats over the next 10-12 years.

Don’t bet on him getting found out in Test cricket and going downhill from here. He won’t. He is going to be a phenomenal player and reach the heights of Gilchrist.

Ultra talented player do not miss chances that he does, He is not talented at all when it comes to be a keeper infact he is a forced keeper who must improve if he is to keep his position in the team long term.

 

[Slim]

I see it this way - Pakistan as a team cannot afford Pant - as hes a luxury in an already non-existent top order. Due to Pant's aggressive nature, if he also fails then the team is in complete doldrums. Not to mention that the team cannot afford a tubby keeper who is missing chances every match. Hence, the reason why i am against Azam's selection as well until he gets fit.

India on the other hand has an overall better top order, and can risk playing a player that is aggressive. They still cannot afford dropped chances though and is hit and miss which is why in recent past Pant was dropped for Saha but their elasticity in terms of taking a risky player onboard is much more than Pakistan.

Rizwan works for Pakistan - hes reliable.

 

[ufcfan]

He must his batting is good but not so good that he can have a great career for team like India with this level of keeping. The amount of chances he misses currently will catch up with him sooner or latter. The batting for will dip at some point and he will come under severe pressure.

So ,Rizwan's form will not drop?Lol

 

[Pakhs]

So ,Rizwan's form will not drop?Lol

It will drop but Rizwan can stay on the team just for his keeping as he is a better keeper.

 

[mohan11]

Opposition should answer this - do they want to play against Pant or Rizwan.

Fear factor is associated with Pant now. Rizwan is a regular good player.

 

[MHN1293]

Opposition should answer this - do they want to play against Pant or Rizwan.

Fear factor is associated with Pant now. Rizwan is a regular good player.

Pant has a much higher ceiling than rizwan. Being 5 years younger than rizwan pant has already acheived similar levels of success to rizwan in tests and odis. Still yet to play a memorable knock. Someone rightfull stated earlier that rizwan will end up as Bj watling while pant will end up in the middle of gilchrist and butler. Both play important roles for their team.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Rizwans glovework is on another level to Pants.

With bat yes Pant can take away a game from a team very quickly with bat.

Rizwan is a man for a batting crisis.

Both should be enjoyed for who they are.

Funny how same posters get over excited and pro claim pretty much ever indian player is god like or best the world has ever seen.

Same laughable copy and paste stuff. Its as though cricket only exists in India and nowhere else.

 

[Extreme Pace]

The reason why he hasn’t been consistent in Limited Overs cricket so far is because he hasn’t really found his game in those formats. He bats with a cluttered mind and doesn’t know how to plan his innings. He either gets overly aggressive or overly defensive.

He is only 23 years old and is only now beginning to understand his game. In spite of that, he has already done things in his short Test career that most WK batsmen can only dream of.

His best years are ahead of him and because he is an ultra-talented player, he will find his game in all three formats and is going to terrorize teams in all formats over the next 10-12 years.

Don’t bet on him getting found out in Test cricket and going downhill from here. He won’t. He is going to be a phenomenal player and reach the heights of Gilchrist.

Are you OK in the head ? Don't bet on him getting found out ? He already got found out.. he looked like a clueless hack when the ball moved in England and New Zealand. His stumps took quite a few cart wheels there when his bat was miles away from the ball and his head somewhere else. Complete hack that requires flat pitches.. averages under 20 in NZ and Eng. Rizwan on the other hand averages 40+ everywhere because he has good technique, temperament and a cricketing brain.
And no he will not have a ODI career.. completely brain dead player. Brain dead players remain brain dead their entire career.

 

[JaDed]

Mamoon brings the inner hatred towards every Indian player out lol
Surely Pant is not as bad as the post above by Mr.Pace

 

[MHN1293]

Are you OK in the head ? Don't bet on him getting found out ? He already got found out.. he looked like a clueless hack when the ball moved in England and New Zealand. His stumps took quite a few cart wheels there when his bat was miles away from the ball and his head somewhere else. Complete hack that requires flat pitches.. averages under 20 in NZ and Eng. Rizwan on the other hand averages 40+ everywhere because he has good technique, temperament and a cricketing brain.
And no he will not have a ODI career.. completely brain dead player. Brain dead players remain brain dead their entire career.

I think its muhammad rizwan vs pant not muhammad rizwan vs abid ali.

 

[praveen]

If we expect batsmen and bowlers to sort their weakness and get better as they play more, why isn't the same expected of keepers ? Pant's glove work will only get better as he gets more games. His age and higher ceiling will give him an edge over other keepers but he faces strong competition in LOI formats and needs to sort his batting out.

Rizwan is having a purple patch now and if he keeps up his batting form, he will end up as one of the best. Add to the fact he is a captaincy material, Pakistan have a real gem on their hands.

 

[Extreme Pace]

I think its muhammad rizwan vs pant not muhammad rizwan vs abid ali.

Funny that you say, even Abid Ali facing the new ball averages much higher than 'Gilchrist' Pant in New Zealand.

Anyone who thinks Pant has any semblance of a technique needs to re-watch his Test matches in NZ where he gave three chances every ball. A flat track tullay baaz if I have ever seen one.

 

[Pakhs]

If we expect batsmen and bowlers to sort their weakness and get better as they play more, why isn't the same expected of keepers ? Pant's glove work will only get better as he gets more games. His age and higher ceiling will give him an edge over other keepers but he faces strong competition in LOI formats and needs to sort his batting out.

Rizwan is having a purple patch now and if he keeps up his batting form, he will end up as one of the best. Add to the fact he is a captaincy material, Pakistan have a real gem on their hands.

Pant does not have a higher ceiling when it comes to keeping otherwise he would already be a better keeper. He is the worst keeper India has available to them. He is in the team for his batting he really needs to improve his keeping before his batting form dips because otherwise he will come under extreme pressure again and might lose his spot like what happened in England.

 

[Pakhs]

Funny that you say, even Abid Ali facing the new ball averages much higher than 'Gilchrist' Pant in New Zealand.

Anyone who thinks Pant has any semblance of a technique needs to re-watch his Test matches in NZ where he gave three chances every ball. A flat track tullay baaz if I have ever seen one.

He is a good flat track bully though which is more than enough for some one who is not likely to be all time great..

 

[Extreme Pace]

Most people don't have the IQ and cricketing sense to understand this but Test cricket is actually ripe for Tullar Baaz's in regions with flat tracks and Captains giving these Tullar Baaz's open fields on these flat tracks. The correct way to bowl against Tuller Baaz's is setting choking fields on flat tracks.
Even the king of Tullah's's Afridi averages 50 vs India in Test matches. Same with prince of Tullah's, Sehwag who had a tailender's average in NZ and Eng.

 

[Ab Fan]

Rizwan is a world class test keeper batsman. He will play in my Indo-Pak test XI.

Current Indo-Pak XI:-

1. Rohit Sharma
2. Shubhman Gill
3. Cheteshwar Pujara
4. Virat Kohli
5. Rishabh Pant
6. Mohammad Rizwan(wkt)
7. Ravindra Jadeja
8. Ravichandran Ashwin
9. Ishant Sharma
10. Mohammad Shami
11. Jasprit Bumrah

 

[Pakhs]

Rizwan is a world class test keeper batsman. He will play in my Indo-Pak test XI.

Current Indo-Pak XI:-

1. Rohit Sharma
2. Shubhman Gill
3. Cheteshwar Pujara
4. Virat Kohli
5. Rishabh Pant
6. Mohammad Rizwan(wkt)
7. Ravindra Jadeja
8. Ravichandran Ashwin
9. Ishant Sharma
10. Mohammad Shami
11. Jasprit Bumrah

Pujara does not deserve to be in any Indo-Pak XI as his stats in SENA countries are poor he avergaes in low 30s in England, SA & NZ. I would play Azhar Ali ahead of him as his got better stats. Its hard to argue with their stats as this is over long term. Pant will not make my XI as I would play Babar ahead of him in that position. I would also not play Ishant sharma as he is bang average over long term and play Shaheen infront of him. Rohit Sharma position is also debatable as he has a seriously bad record outside of India.

 

[MHN1293]

Funny that you say, even Abid Ali facing the new ball averages much higher than 'Gilchrist' Pant in New Zealand.

Anyone who thinks Pant has any semblance of a technique needs to re-watch his Test matches in NZ where he gave three chances every ball. A flat track tullay baaz if I have ever seen one.

Pant may not be that good but i think we all can agree that he is better than abid ali.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pujara does not deserve to be in any Indo-Pak XI as his stats in SENA countries are poor he avergaes in low 30s in England, SA & NZ. I would play Azhar Ali ahead of him as his got better stats. Its hard to argue with their stats as this is over long term. Pant will not make my XI as I would play Babar ahead of him in that position. I would also not play Ishant sharma as he is bang average over long term and play Shaheen infront of him. Rohit Sharma position is also debatable as he has a seriously bad record outside of India.

Pujara in SENA- 35
Azhar in SENA - 32

Pujara is better statistically and has won his team two test series in Australia. Azhar hasn't won any test match in Australia.

Rishabh Pant in SENA- 42
Babar Azam in SENA - 39

Rishabh has won a test series in Australia with bat and is also a keeper bat. Both about same innings.


https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...n;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=batting

 

[Pakhs]

Pujara in SENA- 35
Azhar in SENA - 32

Pujara is better statistically and has won his team two test series in Australia. Azhar hasn't won any test match in Australia.

Rishabh Pant in SENA- 42
Babar Azam in SENA - 39

Rishabh has won a test series in Australia with bat and is also a keeper bat. Both about same innings.


https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...n;team=6;team=7;template=results;type=batting

Pujara has a worst over all record in SENA not just Australia and even in WI thats just the truth. Rishabh cant get into the side as a batsman alone he is too inconsistent.

But you worst selection is Pujara.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pujara has a worst over all record in SENA not just Australia and even in WI thats just the truth. Rishabh cant get into the side as a batsman alone he is too inconsistent.

But you worst selection is Pujara.

I gave you all the record and what you are doing is just whining. Carry on! Pujara walks into team ahead of anyone in that team not named Kohli if we are talking about overall record.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Again Proof ?..

Not sure about two drops per match but I shared this article here last month.

What’s the problem with Pant’s ’keeping?

A CricViz Analyst tweet shows that Pant’s catch success percentage in Tests is 93% against pace and 56% against spin. “Since the start of 2018, Rishabh Pant averages 0.86 dropped catches per Test played. Of all keepers to play 10 matches in that time, Pant’s drops-per-Test record is the worst,” says another tweet from the same handle.

https://indianexpress.com/article/e...t-and-why-indias-options-are-limited-7137248/

 

[RyanRyan10]

Rizwan is a world class test keeper batsman. He will play in my Indo-Pak test XI.

Current Indo-Pak XI:-

1. Rohit Sharma
2. Shubhman Gill
3. Cheteshwar Pujara
4. Virat Kohli
5. Rishabh Pant
6. Mohammad Rizwan(wkt)
7. Ravindra Jadeja
8. Ravichandran Ashwin
9. Ishant Sharma
10. Mohammad Shami
11. Jasprit Bumrah

Good

I will pick Nauman Ali in place of Ishant if we are playing in Asia.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Funny that you say, even Abid Ali facing the new ball averages much higher than 'Gilchrist' Pant in New Zealand.

Anyone who thinks Pant has any semblance of a technique needs to re-watch his Test matches in NZ where he gave three chances every ball. A flat track tullay baaz if I have ever seen one.

To be fair to Pant he did give chances to Australian fielders as well but they were all in Kamran Akmal mode and dropped him multiple times. He is a batsman who needs luck on his side whenever he plays his natural game.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Rizwan is a world class test keeper batsman. He will play in my Indo-Pak test XI.

Current Indo-Pak XI:-

1. Rohit Sharma
2. Shubhman Gill
3. Cheteshwar Pujara
4. Virat Kohli
5. Rishabh Pant
6. Mohammad Rizwan(wkt)
7. Ravindra Jadeja
8. Ravichandran Ashwin
9. Ishant Sharma
10. Mohammad Shami
11. Jasprit Bumrah

Very nice of you to include Rizwan but leave Babar out lol.

 

[Hyperion66]

Rizwan is a world class test keeper batsman. He will play in my Indo-Pak test XI.

Current Indo-Pak XI:-

1. Rohit Sharma
2. Shubhman Gill
3. Cheteshwar Pujara
4. Virat Kohli
5. Rishabh Pant
6. Mohammad Rizwan(wkt)
7. Ravindra Jadeja
8. Ravichandran Ashwin
9. Ishant Sharma
10. Mohammad Shami
11. Jasprit Bumrah

Top post. You really did manage to capture all the best available test players from both the countries in one XI.

 

[Pakhs]

I gave you all the record and what you are doing is just whining. Carry on! Pujara walks into team ahead of anyone in that team not named Kohli if we are talking about overall record.

What sort of record? I give you a record that you tried to hide Pujara averages 30 or below 30 in ENG, SA, NZ and less than 20 in WI and I would like my team to win in those countries.

 

[Bigboii]

Very nice of you to include Rizwan but leave Babar out lol.

Rohit (in tests crciket, yeah...) , Gill (rookie), Pant (a good batsman but seriously a better "bat" than babar) (batsman) in test XI
and no Babar (no#6 rn and in the top 5 just couple of months ago in ranking)

there's no limit to the stupid biases, some other guy saying Jadeja is better than IK, some poster saying Bumrah is better than wasim
and this is "pakpassion"...

Zero respect for PCT and its legacies by majority of Indian posters here

 

[Bigboii]

Rohit (in tests crciket, yeah...) , Gill (rookie), Pant (a good batsman but seriously a better "bat" than babar) (batsman) in test XI
and no Babar (no#6 rn and in the top 5 just couple of months ago in ranking)

there's no limit to the stupid biases, some other guy saying Jadeja is better than IK, some poster saying Bumrah is better than wasim
and this is "pakpassion"...

Zero respect for PCT and its legacies by majority of Indian posters here

also heard somone saying babar is Mushfiqur level batsman by an indian poster

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Rohit (in tests crciket, yeah...) , Gill (rookie), Pant (a good batsman but seriously a better "bat" than babar) (batsman) in test XI
and no Babar (no#6 rn and in the top 5 just couple of months ago in ranking)

there's no limit to the stupid biases, some other guy saying Jadeja is better than IK, some poster saying Bumrah is better than wasim
and this is "pakpassion"...

Zero respect for PCT and its legacies by majority of Indian posters here

Yeah I saw that post where someone was calling Bumrah better than Wasim Akram lol. Don't remember who was behind that gem. And yes this is your PakPassion. If it was an Indian forum and you guys had said something like Babar is better than Sachin there they would have banned you guys long time ago. Freedom of speech for the neighbours especially Pakistanis doesn't exist on Indian forums.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Top post. You really did manage to capture all the best available test players from both the countries in one XI.

Nah he stopped looking for other player(s) in Pakistan after finding Rizwan. It looks more like a quota selection to me. You can't play both Rizwan and Pant in the same team. Only one has to play. Babar should be there and one of these two has to make way for him. Playing Pant as a specialist batsman is risky. Not even Pandya is finding a place in this team as a specialist batsman these days.

 

[street cricketer]

Rohit (in tests crciket, yeah...) , Gill (rookie), Pant (a good batsman but seriously a better "bat" than babar) (batsman) in test XI
and no Babar (no#6 rn and in the top 5 just couple of months ago in ranking)

there's no limit to the stupid biases, some other guy saying Jadeja is better than IK, some poster saying Bumrah is better than wasim
and this is "pakpassion"...

Zero respect for PCT and its legacies by majority of Indian posters here

Both Jadeja and Bumrah are nowhere near the exploits of IK and Wasim in test cricket history. No true cricket fan will take such comments seriously. They both are excellent players but need to be compared to stalwarts like IK and Wasim at the end of their careers, but not after playing 18 tests like Bumrah.

But don't understand the rest of your post. Are you seriously saying Babar is a league above Pant as a batsman in test cricket? Are you aware Pant actually has a better overall and SENA average than Babar in test cricket..Not to forget more impact innings with the bat.

As for the openers, believe it or not, Rohit might have a poor record as opener outside asia but he's competing with Abid Ali, Shan Masood, et al, who don't have flash records outside asia themselves.

For the record, I rate Babar very much and love watching him bat. But I think he is still finding his feet in test cricket and hasn't set test cricket on fire in a manner Kohli and Smith started to do around Babar's current age. I think it was around the same age when both Kohli and Smith scored 4 tons in 4 matches in that post Hughes death Border-Gavaskar series in Australia.

If I were to make a combined Indo-Pak team, I would convert Azhar Ali to an opener once again and make him open with Gill. Probably a bit harsh on Rohit given his bradmanesque record in asia but Azhar Ali is more solid outside asia. I would definitely find a place for both Babar and Pant in my team though, will play Babar at 5 and Pant at 6.

Shubman Gill
Azhar Ali
Cheteshwar Pujara
Virat Kohli (c)
Babar Azam
Rishabh Pant (wk)
Ravindra Jadeja
Ravichandran Ashwin
Ishant Sharma
Mohammad Shami
Jasprit Bumrah

12th man: Mohammad Rizwan

Bench: Rohit, Rahane, Yasir, Siraj, Shaheen.

Harsh on Rizwan yes but Rizwan does a good rescue job in a weak batting line up like Pakistan has, but in a top 5 of Gill, Azhar, Pujara, Kohli and Babar, you won't see a lot of collapses and therefore gives a lot more freedom to someone like Pant to play his natural game as you have Jadeja and Ashwin coming after him and not just tailenders.

 

[Ab Fan]

Rohit (in tests crciket, yeah...) , Gill (rookie), Pant (a good batsman but seriously a better "bat" than babar) (batsman) in test XI
and no Babar (no#6 rn and in the top 5 just couple of months ago in ranking)

there's no limit to the stupid biases, some other guy saying Jadeja is better than IK, some poster saying Bumrah is better than wasim
and this is "pakpassion"...

Zero respect for PCT and its legacies by majority of Indian posters here

A lot of posters here think Azhar is better or even as good as Pujara. Do you also think the same? One is averaging 42 while other is averaging 47.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Both Jadeja and Bumrah are nowhere near the exploits of IK and Wasim in test cricket history. No true cricket fan will take such comments seriously. They both are excellent players but need to be compared to stalwarts like IK and Wasim at the end of their careers, but not after playing 18 tests like Bumrah.

But don't understand the rest of your post. Are you seriously saying Babar is a league above Pant as a batsman in test cricket? Are you aware Pant actually has a better overall and SENA average than Babar in test cricket..Not to forget more impact innings with the bat.

As for the openers, believe it or not, Rohit might have a poor record as opener outside asia but he's competing with Abid Ali, Shan Masood, et al, who don't have flash records outside asia themselves.

For the record, I rate Babar very much and love watching him bat. But I think he is still finding his feet in test cricket and hasn't set test cricket on fire in a manner Kohli and Smith started to do around Babar's current age. I think it was around the same age when both Kohli and Smith scored 4 tons in 4 matches in that post Hughes death Border-Gavaskar series in Australia.

If I were to make a combined Indo-Pak team, I would convert Azhar Ali to an opener once again and make him open with Gill. Probably a bit harsh on Rohit given his bradmanesque record in asia but Azhar Ali is more solid outside asia. I would definitely find a place for both Babar and Pant in my team though, will play Babar at 5 and Pant at 6.

Shubman Gill
Azhar Ali
Cheteshwar Pujara
Virat Kohli (c)
Babar Azam
Rishabh Pant (wk)
Ravindra Jadeja
Ravichandran Ashwin
Ishant Sharma
Mohammad Shami
Jasprit Bumrah

12th man: Mohammad Rizwan

Bench: Rohit, Rahane, Yasir, Siraj, Shaheen.

Harsh on Rizwan yes but Rizwan does a good rescue job in a weak batting line up like Pakistan has, but in a top 5 of Gill, Azhar, Pujara, Kohli and Babar, you won't see a lot of collapses and therefore gives a lot more freedom to someone like Pant to play his natural game as you have Jadeja and Ashwin coming after him and not just tailenders.

Arguably in a strong batting lineup you want a better keeper to hold onto chances, there’s no point having another batsman. I would have the same lineup as you but including Rizwan instead of Pant.

 

[street cricketer]

Arguably in a strong batting lineup you want a better keeper to hold onto chances, there’s no point having another batsman. I would have the same lineup as you but including Rizwan instead of Pant.

Actually, I take your point, I would have Rizwan instead of Pant for matches in the subcontinent as Pant needs improvement with the gloves against spinners.

Outside asia, I would have Pant in my line up as he is as good as any keeper against the pacers and can change the dimension of the game with his batting. Having someone like Pant in the line up would also make the opposition delay their declaration as they would be reluctant to declare on a total that gives a sniff to the chasing side.

 

[saeed5646]

Rohit (in tests crciket, yeah...) , Gill (rookie), Pant (a good batsman but seriously a better "bat" than babar) (batsman) in test XI
and no Babar (no#6 rn and in the top 5 just couple of months ago in ranking)

there's no limit to the stupid biases, some other guy saying Jadeja is better than IK, some poster saying Bumrah is better than wasim
and this is "pakpassion"...

Zero respect for PCT and its legacies by majority of Indian posters here

Also nobody posting stats of both from our neighbour's which suggest rizwan ìs doing better

 

[Bigboii]

Both Jadeja and Bumrah are nowhere near the exploits of IK and Wasim in test cricket history. No true cricket fan will take such comments seriously. They both are excellent players but need to be compared to stalwarts like IK and Wasim at the end of their careers, but not after playing 18 tests like Bumrah.

But don't understand the rest of your post. Are you seriously saying Babar is a league above Pant as a batsman in test cricket? Are you aware Pant actually has a better overall and SENA average than Babar in test cricket..Not to forget more impact innings with the bat.

As for the openers, believe it or not, Rohit might have a poor record as opener outside asia but he's competing with Abid Ali, Shan Masood, et al, who don't have flash records outside asia themselves.

For the record, I rate Babar very much and love watching him bat. But I think he is still finding his feet in test cricket and hasn't set test cricket on fire in a manner Kohli and Smith started to do around Babar's current age. I think it was around the same age when both Kohli and Smith scored 4 tons in 4 matches in that post Hughes death Border-Gavaskar series in Australia.

If I were to make a combined Indo-Pak team, I would convert Azhar Ali to an opener once again and make him open with Gill. Probably a bit harsh on Rohit given his bradmanesque record in asia but Azhar Ali is more solid outside asia. I would definitely find a place for both Babar and Pant in my team though, will play Babar at 5 and Pant at 6.

Shubman Gill
Azhar Ali
Cheteshwar Pujara
Virat Kohli (c)
Babar Azam
Rishabh Pant (wk)
Ravindra Jadeja
Ravichandran Ashwin
Ishant Sharma
Mohammad Shami
Jasprit Bumrah

12th man: Mohammad Rizwan

Bench: Rohit, Rahane, Yasir, Siraj, Shaheen.

Harsh on Rizwan yes but Rizwan does a good rescue job in a weak batting line up like Pakistan has, but in a top 5 of Gill, Azhar, Pujara, Kohli and Babar, you won't see a lot of collapses and therefore gives a lot more freedom to someone like Pant to play his natural game as you have Jadeja and Ashwin coming after him and not just tailenders.

No WHERE did I say Babar is leagues above Pant in fact I rate him highly (just look around this thread)
My point was that if you are going to put all these guys in an XI with all thier flaws, then surely Babar deserves a place in the XI
cause sure he is not the fab 4 or a 'great" category right now but when the competition is a rookie (highly rated but still a rookie) and Rohit the test opener than surely you have to find a place for Babar in the XI that's unjustified

 

[Bigboii]

A lot of posters here think Azhar is better or even as good as Pujara. Do you also think the same? One is averaging 42 while other is averaging 47.

and in the same thread I made my views clear ...

 

[street cricketer]

No WHERE did I say Babar is leagues above Pant in fact I rate him highly (just look around this thread)
My point was that if you are going to put all these guys in an XI with all thier flaws, then surely Babar deserves a place in the XI
cause sure he is not the fab 4 or a 'great" category right now but when the competition is a rookie (highly rated but still a rookie) and Rohit the test opener than surely you have to find a place for Babar in the XI that's unjustified

I think [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] didn't include Babar ahead of Rohit and Gill because Babar is not a specialist opener. Rohit and Gill's competitors are Shan Masood, Imam Ul Haq, Abid Ali and Azhar Ali (since he opened for Pakistan 1-2 years back) while Babar has to compete for the 3, 4 and 5 spots. Otherwise even Rahane would have made the cut as an opener as he has a much better test record outside asia than Rohit.

I would personally include Babar at 5 as I think no.5 is too high a position for the cavalier batting approach of Pant. At the same time, Pant is a match winner and there's no way I'm having him on the bench, so I'll play him at 6 for matches outside the subcontinent with Rizwan as the wicket keeper batsman for matches in the subcontinent.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Rohit (in tests crciket, yeah...) , Gill (rookie), Pant (a good batsman but seriously a better "bat" than babar) (batsman) in test XI
and no Babar (no#6 rn and in the top 5 just couple of months ago in ranking)

there's no limit to the stupid biases, some other guy saying Jadeja is better than IK, some poster saying Bumrah is better than wasim
and this is "pakpassion"...

Zero respect for PCT and its legacies by majority of Indian posters here

Apparently that guy szrana is a Pakistani. He had mentioned that they have similar stats.

And please don't attack us for claims which Mamoon makes.

We respect Pakistani legends, some of them have been our favourites and that's why most of us are here. Stop generalizing us please.

 

[Saj]

Interesting comparisons.

Both fantastic batsmen in their own right.

Rizwan the better keeper though?

 

[Ab Fan]

Top post. You really did manage to capture all the best available test players from both the countries in one XI.

Thanks man! Good to see that atleast someone appreciated a very sensible and insightful post.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

I gave you all the record and what you are doing is just whining. Carry on! Pujara walks into team ahead of anyone in that team not named Kohli if we are talking about overall record.

I like the fact Pujara plays county cricket, he should continue that to further enhance himself as a player.

 

[Saurav]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It’s not just about how many you get, but also when you get them. If you can somehow sync the first with the second, when the team needs it most, you’re a true match winner. Looking at you <a href="https://twitter.com/RishabhPant17?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RishabhPant17</a> &#55357;&#56399;</p>— Adam Gilchrist (@gilly381) <a href="https://twitter.com/gilly381/status/1367868769817661443?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Mamoon]

No one on his or her right mind will pick Rizwan over Pant. Rizwan is a very good cricketer but Pant is a freak.

He is probably the most feared Test cricketer in the world at the moment and his presence at the crease has a psychological impact on the opposition.

Not a single bowling unit and captain would prefer to bowl to Pant over Rizwan, and not a single team would pick Rizwan over Pant in their lineup.

 

[Buffet]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It’s not just about how many you get, but also when you get them. If you can somehow sync the first with the second, when the team needs it most, you’re a true match winner. Looking at you <a href="https://twitter.com/RishabhPant17?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RishabhPant17</a> ��</p>— Adam Gilchrist (@gilly381) <a href="https://twitter.com/gilly381/status/1367868769817661443?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pant reminds me of Gilly. Aus used to be in trouble and Gilly will play a blinder to take the match away.

Pant has done it 5-7 times in his short career. Sure, he will fail from time to time as well, but he leaves a huge impact.

 

[JaDed]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It’s not just about how many you get, but also when you get them. If you can somehow sync the first with the second, when the team needs it most, you’re a true match winner. Looking at you <a href="https://twitter.com/RishabhPant17?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RishabhPant17</a> &#55357;&#56399;</p>— Adam Gilchrist (@gilly381) <a href="https://twitter.com/gilly381/status/1367868769817661443?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Who is the dig at though ?

 

[NishanKonar]

This thread is most likely going to become like Bumrah vs Hasan ali or Kohli vs Shahzad thread

Rizwan is very good - and he is going through a purple patch. But Rishabh Pant is generational talent. Have said this earlier - he will be in the league of Adam Gilchrist 5 years from now. He has already achieved more in overseas SENA tests in just 2 years than what MS Dhoni did over his whole career.

You don't play such brilliant 4th innings knocks in consecutive tests in Australia on Day 5 by fluke ( no matter how hard much some posters try to put asterisks like dropped catches ; even Brian Lara was dropped in that 1999 Barbados ton or Kevin Petersen was dropped twice in that epic Oval ton ; but nobody suggests Lara & KP needed dropped catches to help their cause )

Plus Pant has age on his side - he is 23 unlike Rizwan who is officially " 28 years old "

 

[NishanKonar]

Pant reminds me of Gilly. Aus used to be in trouble and Gilly will play a blinder to take the match away.

Pant has done it 5-7 times in his short career. Sure, he will fail from time to time as well, but he leaves a huge impact.

+1

Its not just his ability. Its his flair & audacity even when ur team is a spot of bother which reminds me of Adam Gilchrist most. Never gets bogged down under any situation

 

[Napa]

I gave you all the record and what you are doing is just whining. Carry on! Pujara walks into team ahead of anyone in that team not named Kohli if we are talking about overall record.

Totally true that Pujara was the most Indian important player in the back to back series that India won in Australia.

As for your India-Pakistan team, I may replace Gill with Babar and have Pujara open.

 

[Extra_Cover]

I don't want my opinion to be a dampner as Pant is certainly a hot property in world cricket at the moment and no doubt ahead of Rizwan (infact ahead of most test keepers slightly behind Butler).

However, I have seen shades of Raina in Pant. He has tendency of swathes and hoicks over leg side in front of square. I somehow feel test cricket is for purists where orthodox cricket and technical cricket outweighs and outlasts. The biggest example is Dhoni, he like no one else was truly a freak and once in a lifetime player. However as he was unorhodox he wasn't a success at test cricket, same unfortunately will be the case with Pant (its a matter of time).

Rizwan would have a better test career than Pant. Pant would have a significantly better limited overs cricket career though.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Who is the dig at though ?

Don't see any dig there.

 

[JaDed]

Don't see any dig there.

Just not about how many you get...

 

[Indiafan]

I don't want my opinion to be a dampner as Pant is certainly a hot property in world cricket at the moment and no doubt ahead of Rizwan (infact ahead of most test keepers slightly behind Butler).

However, I have seen shades of Raina in Pant. He has tendency of swathes and hoicks over leg side in front of square. I somehow feel test cricket is for purists where orthodox cricket and technical cricket outweighs and outlasts. The biggest example is Dhoni, he like no one else was truly a freak and once in a lifetime player. However as he was unorhodox he wasn't a success at test cricket, same unfortunately will be the case with Pant (its a matter of time).

Rizwan would have a better test career than Pant. Pant would have a significantly better limited overs cricket career though.

Those swathes and hoicks come only after he crosses at least 50 though. This is the difference between watching a match live and seeing just highlights. In most of his innings, he has given himself 60 or more balls to settle. And in those balls he plays as orthodox shots as possible. He also gives himself a target to reach before opening up. And even after that, he choses which bowler to target

The hoicks and swathes come after that, when he is on roll. Its just to show all the shots he has in the book and to intimidate bowlers, kinda like AB Devillers

He will have a long career as there is a clear method to his madness

 

[Buffet]

I don't want my opinion to be a dampner as Pant is certainly a hot property in world cricket at the moment and no doubt ahead of Rizwan (infact ahead of most test keepers slightly behind Butler).

However, I have seen shades of Raina in Pant. He has tendency of swathes and hoicks over leg side in front of square. I somehow feel test cricket is for purists where orthodox cricket and technical cricket outweighs and outlasts. The biggest example is Dhoni, he like no one else was truly a freak and once in a lifetime player. However as he was unorhodox he wasn't a success at test cricket, same unfortunately will be the case with Pant (its a matter of time).

Rizwan would have a better test career than Pant. Pant would have a significantly better limited overs cricket career though.

Perhaps true, but he has already played few series-changing knocks. If he can do it even 3-4 more times, he would have done it more than most batsmen do in their entire career.


Not many keepers have tons in Aus, Eng, and India at such a young age. He can add a few more. His impact will be huge just by doing them. He is not someone who slogs blindly. Even when he is slogging, he does it intelligently.

I see the tendency of many fans to not appreciate what's happening in front of our eyes. Pant failing from time to time will come with the territory based on how he plays. That won't take away the impact he will have other times.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Just not about how many you get...

It reads like a general statement to me. Gilchrist hasn't really come across as malicious since his retirement.

 

[AMSS]

Just not about how many you get...

Do you get similarly conspiratorial reading the ingredients list at your nearest kirana store?

 

[MesonK]

big LOL at usual suspects trying to convince the board that Rizwan is below Pant.

Stats wise they are pretty much equals in tests but Rizwan is much superior in ODIs and T20Is that its not even comparable.

Here are their test stats
.........

Muhammad Rizwan (MR)/Rishab Pant (RP)

Overall Average
44.3/45.2

Average Away
42.5/39.3

Average Home
50.2/64.8

Averages Against SENA sides
vs AUS 44.2/64.4
vs ENG 40.25/39.2
vs SA 83/Never played
vs NZ 43/15

Average in SENA
42.5/44.6

Average in 3rd and 4th Innings
78.2 and 73/15.1 and 71.8

..............

Please tell how is Rizwan below Pant ?

 

[Napa]

big LOL at usual suspects trying to convince the board that Rizwan is below Pant.

Stats wise they are pretty much equals in tests but Rizwan is much superior in ODIs and T20Is that its not even comparable.

Here are their test stats
.........

Muhammad Rizwan (MR)/Rishab Pant (RP)

Overall Average
44.3/45.2

Average Away
42.5/39.3

Average Home
50.2/64.8

Averages Against SENA sides
vs AUS 44.2/64.4
vs ENG 40.25/39.2
vs SA 83/Never played
vs NZ 43/15

Average in SENA
42.5/44.6

Average in 3rd and 4th Innings
78.2 and 73/15.1 and 71.8

..............

Please tell how is Rizwan below Pant ?

I can't comment on Rizwan as I haven't followed him closely, but will say that you can't judge Pant's impact by mere stats. Fact is that he played an innings in Australia that won India the match and the series, and has now followed up by playing this innings which has crushed England when it looked like they had a decent chance of winning and putting India out of the WTC.

 

[MesonK]

I can't comment on Rizwan as I haven't followed him closely, but will say that you can't judge Pant's impact by mere stats. Fact is that he played an innings in Australia that won India the match and the series, and has now followed up by playing this innings which has crushed England when it looked like they had a decent chance of winning and putting India out of the WTC.

And Rizwan scored at an average of 44+ playing in a team that collapses regularly and Rizwan has to come on crease at 50-70 for 5. Your point would have been valid if Rizwan would be happily scoring in top order on batting friendly pitches in a world class batting side. But thats just not true.

Like I said, both have even record in Tests (I posted details above) while Rizwan is just a better WK and is a superior ODI and T20I batsman than Pant. They are just even in tests for now.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

And Rizwan scored at an average of 44+ playing in a team that collapses regularly and Rizwan has to come on crease at 50-70 for 5. Your point would have been valid if Rizwan would be happily scoring in top order on batting friendly pitches in a world class batting side. But thats just not true.

Like I said, both have even record in Tests (I posted details above) while Rizwan is just a better WK and is a superior ODI and T20I batsman than Pant. They are just even in tests for now.

Pant is being hyped because he’s 6 years younger than Rizwan, and has 10+ years in his career whereas Rizwan has maybe 5 years. If they were both 23, it would be a better comparison. However Pant is far ahead and by the time he is 29, he will likely already have cemented his status as an Indian great.

On pure ability right now Rizwan will make my World Test XI team instead of Pant, but that will likely change by the end of both of their careers.

 

[Napa]

And Rizwan scored at an average of 44+ playing in a team that collapses regularly and Rizwan has to come on crease at 50-70 for 5. Your point would have been valid if Rizwan would be happily scoring in top order on batting friendly pitches in a world class batting side. But thats just not true.

Like I said, both have even record in Tests (I posted details above) while Rizwan is just a better WK and is a superior ODI and T20I batsman than Pant. They are just even in tests for now.

Maybe like Pant, Rizwan also has an impact far beyond his stats. As I said, I haven't followed Rizwan. I was merely saying that Pant's impact cannot be judged simply by his stats. If Pant had scored a century in the last Test rather than this one, the impact would have been much less as India was far ahead. This Test had England slightly ahead before Pant's century.

 

[Saj]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It’s not just about how many you get, but also when you get them. If you can somehow sync the first with the second, when the team needs it most, you’re a true match winner. Looking at you <a href="https://twitter.com/RishabhPant17?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@RishabhPant17</a> ��</p>— Adam Gilchrist (@gilly381) <a href="https://twitter.com/gilly381/status/1367868769817661443?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I think Pant will be one of those players who will be an impact player. Meaning that his best innings will quite often change the course of a match for his team(s).

There again he will also be the sort of batsman who when you expect him to score big, he will falter.

 

[JaDed]

Do you get similarly conspiratorial reading the ingredients list at your nearest kirana store?

) relax bro...

 

[Slog]

How has his keeping been in England series?

Seems he’s improved from aus series as I haven’t seen people talk about his keeping recently

 

[gazza619]

Pant is obviously ahead, he has an advantage though of playing in a strong Indian side.

 

[JaDed]

The thing I like about Pant is he has gotten a lot of hate from age 21-23 .. and still come on top that’s character.. thankfully Indian Cricket management is much better than us fans(myself ).

 

[JaDed]

Pant is obviously ahead, he has an advantage though of playing in a strong Indian side.

Yes but that would also means he would get less chances and more hate if not performing well... which he did till last year.. got booed on Indian grounds..

 

[Hasan123]

Rizwan is a top class player but he will never reach Pants level. Pant will improve with the gloves the more exposure he gets.

 

[gazza619]

Rizwan is a top class player but he will never reach Pants level. Pant will improve with the gloves the more exposure he gets.

Pant will not in a million years develop keeping skills of Rizwan.