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The best left-arm pacers of this era: Mohammed Amir, Mitchell Starc and Joel Paris?

TalentSpotterPk

TalentSpotterPk

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Barring injuries these 3 are going to be the best 3 left arm bowlers in this Era. I.A

Starc will have edge over Amir in ODI's but after 6 months of international cricket Amir may be equal or ahead of him if he is able to revive his 2010 pace.

In tests Amir will have edge over Starc.

While Joel Paris is very talented left arm bowler. If he stays fit he will give tough competition to Starc and Amir especially in odi cricket.

Sorry to Bengali brothers Mustafiz isn't in the same league yet but has got potential. And if his cutters aren't worked out and he increases his pace abit more than he will be in this league soon. But if his cutters are worked out than No.

Boult ? Well certainly yes in test cricket if he can revive his pace. If he can't revive his lost pace than he will go down from here.
 
Starc's peak is prolly equal to that of best ODI fast bowlers of all time and peak Amir may not reach him so it is premature for you to just say off the cuff, that Amir wll equal or surpass him in months.
 
Forgive my ignorance, but who is Paris?
 
Starc has averaged 21 or under in 4 of his 5 years in ODI cricket. In his worst year he averaged a not too shabby 30. Its just mind boggling to see how OP has so casually just said Amir will surpass him lol
 
It is delusional to think that Amir would have been miles ahead of what Starc is today, if he wasn't banned. Yes he was better than him at 18, but players don't improve exponentially - prodigies hit their top level early and then it is all about maintaining that level; otherwise every young talented player will be at a legendary level by the times he's 30.

Starc has peaked in ODIs and his peak is as good (if not better) as any bowler to have played this format. Similarly, the way Amir bowled in England in 2010 was the zenith of fast bowling in helpful conditions. It doesn't get better than that.

Amir has the edge over Starc in Tests but the latter is finding his feet in this format. In ODIs, Amir will struggle big time to match his ODI impact.

Overall Starc is better than Amir, don't let his fans delude you. That of course doesn't mean that Amir isn't fantastic - honestly this is a great era for left-arm pacers - we have three pacers who can become legends of the game - Starc, Boult and Amir.

Of course we haven't seen enough of the likes of Joel Paris yet, but none of the others come close to this trio.
 
[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] give my boy 6 months kindly. He was 18 when he got banned.

Even Imran who says Wasim was the best left arm fast bowler ever to play cricket and many others believe in this assessment too say that Amir was ahead of Wasim wrt what Wasim was at 18.

Remember Starc has got his most wickets with either raw pace , yorkers or in swingers to right handers causing lbw's or Bowled.

I don't think Amir is behind Starc in these three strong aspects of his bowling. He is good at in swingers aswell as yorkers. He will just take 3 to 6 months of international cricket to revive his raw pace.

The thing is that you are trying to compare 18 years old Amir with 26 years old Starc.


The real competition begins now.
 
Hahaha.

Amir will NEVER EVER pass Mitchell Starc, like ever.

He is close to Boult, and Boult is slightly better.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] give my boy 6 months kindly. He was 18 when he got banned.

Even Imran who says Wasim was the best left arm fast bowler ever to play cricket and many others believe in this assessment too say that Amir was ahead of Wasim wrt what Wasim was at 18.

Remember Starc has got his most wickets with either raw pace , yorkers or in swingers to right handers causing lbw's or Bowled.

I don't think Amir is behind Starc in these three strong aspects of his bowling. He is good at in swingers aswell as yorkers. He will just take 3 to 6 months of international cricket to revive his raw pace.

The thing is that you are trying to compare 18 years old Amir with 26 years old Starc.


The real competition begins now.
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This is where I disagree with this assessment. Amir was better at the age of 18 doesn't mean that he is going to be better than him at 26 as well. A lot of young prodigies hit their peak early and then they maintain that level.

Tendulkar was already a complete batsman at 25 and most players don't even peak before 30, but that doesn't mean that a 30 year old Tendulkar was way better than a 25 year old Tendulkar.

Starc has peaked in ODIs and Amir peaked in Tests in that summer - he is not going to top that. Both Amir and Starc have to improve in ODIs and Tests respectively to fulfill their potential, but I honestly do not think that Amir will match him in ODIs, but I do think Starc can match him in Tests which is why I consider him better.

The problem is that if Amir doesn't prove to be better in the long run, his hardcore fans will blame the 5 year ban for it, because 'dil ko khush rakhney ko ghalib ye khayal acha hai'.
 
Bullet Drive said:
Hahaha.

Amir will NEVER EVER pass Mitchell Starc, like ever.

He is close to Boult, and Boult is slightly better.
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I think he is on par with Boult, but Starc is better.

Mustafizur is inferior them but he's better than Junaid.
 
Mamoon said:
I think he is on par with Boult, but Starc is better.

Mustafizur is inferior them but he's better than Junaid.
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Hmm, I think Amir can be better then Boult. He isn't right now, but can be.

But he will never be better then Starc. Starc is one of the best ODI bowlers ever.
 
Mamoon said:
This is where I disagree with this assessment. Amir was better at the age of 18 doesn't mean that he is going to be better than him at 26 as well. A lot of young prodigies hit their peak early and then they maintain that level.

Tendulkar was already a complete batsman at 25 and most players don't even peak before 30, but that doesn't mean that a 30 year old Tendulkar was way better than a 25 year old Tendulkar.

Starc has peaked in ODIs and Amir peaked in Tests in that summer - he is not going to top that. Both Amir and Starc have to improve in ODIs and Tests respectively to fulfill their potential, but I honestly do not think that Amir will match him in ODIs, but I do think Starc can match him in Tests which is why I consider him better.

The problem is that if Amir doesn't prove to be better in the long run, his hardcore fans will blame the 5 year ban for it, because 'dil ko khush rakhney ko ghalib ye khayal acha hai'.
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They shouldn't blame the ban, they should blame Amir.
 
Bullet Drive said:
Hmm, I think Amir can be better then Boult. He isn't right now, but can be.

But he will never be better then Starc. Starc is one of the best ODI bowlers ever.
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Yes, at this rate Starc will end up as the best ODI pacer ever.
 
Amir can pass Starc in tests which is the main thing. It's gonna be Mustafiz vs Starc vs Amir in the LOIs. I wouldn't disagree wtih a guy named TalentSpotter about these matters though. :srt
 
As of now, classifying Amir is pointless. We simply do not know until he puts on a green shirt.

We can argue till the cows come home and it will be similar to banging ones head against the wall. It will have a few home tourneys, and word of mouth of those who have seen him play in the nets to bank on.

When the lights are on, and you play for your nation, after all that has happened to you, it is an entirely new ball game, and we can keep guessing all we want, some will be right, some will be wrong, but few if any actually have a clue as to what Amir will produce with any level of certainty, and I include myself in this group who have no idea.

That is the honest truth. Rankings based on five years, and the little we have seen are worth as much as an American penny, which cost more to produce than to exist.
 
Mamoon said:
This is where I disagree with this assessment. Amir was better at the age of 18 doesn't mean that he is going to be better than him at 26 as well. A lot of young prodigies hit their peak early and then they maintain that level.

Tendulkar was already a complete batsman at 25 and most players don't even peak before 30, but that doesn't mean that a 30 year old Tendulkar was way better than a 25 year old Tendulkar.

Starc has peaked in ODIs and Amir peaked in Tests in that summer - he is not going to top that. Both Amir and Starc have to improve in ODIs and Tests respectively to fulfill their potential, but I honestly do not think that Amir will match him in ODIs, but I do think Starc can match him in Tests which is why I consider him better.

The problem is that if Amir doesn't prove to be better in the long run, his hardcore fans will blame the 5 year ban for it, because 'dil ko khush rakhney ko ghalib ye khayal acha hai'.
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OK if he cannot surpass Starc in odi cricket than atleast he can be at par with him definitely. This is my point of view. And I am saying this after analysing 23 years old bowling closely in BPL. The quality of his bowling.

And remember Boult was successful when he was fast medium. In last 3,4 tests and 3,4 odis he has been less effective due to bring medium fast now. If he cannot revive his lost pace you would not be able to see the same Boult again.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
OK if he cannot surpass Starc in odi cricket than atleast he can be at par with him definitely. This is my point of view. And I am saying this after analysing 23 years old bowling closely in BPL. The quality of his bowling.

And remember Boult was successful when he was fast medium. In last 3,4 tests and 3,4 odis he has been less effective due to bring medium fast now. If he cannot revive his lost pace you would not be able to see the same Boult again.
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Yes, true regarding Boult. Still sample size of his below par performances are low.

Regarding matching Starc in ODIs, again, it will take something extremely special. Starc is unbelievably good in ODIs.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Barring injuries these 3 are going to be the best 3 left arm bowlers in this Era. I.A

Starc will have edge over Amir in ODI's but after 6 months of international cricket Amir may be equal or ahead of him if he is able to revive his 2010 pace.

In tests Amir will have edge over Starc.

While Joel Paris is very talented left arm bowler. If he stays fit he will give tough competition to Starc and Amir especially in odi cricket.

Sorry to Bengali brothers Mustafiz isn't in the same league yet but has got potential. And if his cutters aren't worked out and he increases his pace abit more than he will be in this league soon. But if his cutters are worked out than No.

Boult ? Well certainly yes in test cricket if he can revive his pace. If he can't revive his lost pace than he will go down from here.
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From a decent poster, you are trying your best to become a troll - remember, it takes lot to climb somewhere, doesn't take long to drop off. Don't put posts that instigates different debate if you want to build some reputation.

Your title & topic doesn't back each other - sorting best left-arm pacers & then selecting Paris on his pace. Like a lot of "experts" here, you also are too deluded with the "cutters" of Mustafiz, which is only part of his skill; but what he has is something that rest above his shoulders - you can watch time & again the dismissal of Gayle - how to work out a batsman. Cutter is something he is using because of the surface & the format, & it's giving him result - by result, I am saying ~20 wickets in 6 ODI matches against 2 of the best batting lineups around. I don't want to hurt posters ego here, but the "batting skill" that I have seen of PAK top orders in recent times, in his 1st 3/4 matches against Pakistan, this guy could have ran through that line-up from one end in one spell.

A lot of posters here have no clue that the most difficult ball for a pacer to master is the leg-cutter, for a left-armer, that actually comes into right-handers, particularly something that drift away in air & then cuts back after pitching - this is one skill, that's something natural to him. If he can maintain 135km with stock ball leaving right handers & the effort "cutters" holds it's line within stumps once or twice every over, on green tops, this guy 'll be a nightmare with semi old ball & these days, you can review half-cock LBWs denied by umpire on benefit of doubts.

Long way to go still for him, as I don't think he is physically ready yet & he 'll struggle on AUS/SAF wickets for his Bengali shoulders, but what you are intending is utter rubbish, wasn't worth for this expense of 15 minutes.
 
MMHS said:
From a decent poster, you are trying your best to become a troll - remember, it takes lot to climb somewhere, doesn't take long to drop off. Don't put posts that instigates different debate if you want to build some reputation.

Your title & topic doesn't back each other - sorting best left-arm pacers & then selecting Paris on his pace. Like a lot of "experts" here, you also are too deluded with the "cutters" of Mustafiz, which is only part of his skill; but what he has is something that rest above his shoulders - you can watch time & again the dismissal of Gayle - how to work out a batsman. Cutter is something he is using because of the surface & the format, & it's giving him result - by result, I am saying ~20 wickets in 6 ODI matches against 2 of the best batting lineups around. I don't want to hurt posters ego here, but the "batting skill" that I have seen of PAK top orders in recent times, in his 1st 3/4 matches against Pakistan, this guy could have ran through that line-up from one end in one spell.

A lot of posters here have no clue that the most difficult ball for a pacer to master is the leg-cutter, for a left-armer, that actually comes into right-handers, particularly something that drift away in air & then cuts back after pitching - this is one skill, that's something natural to him. If he can maintain 135km with stock ball leaving right handers & the effort "cutters" holds it's line within stumps once or twice every over, on green tops, this guy 'll be a nightmare with semi old ball & these days, you can review half-cock LBWs denied by umpire on benefit of doubts.

Long way to go still for him, as I don't think he is physically ready yet & he 'll struggle on AUS/SAF wickets for his Bengali shoulders, but what you are intending is utter rubbish, wasn't worth for this expense of 15 minutes.
Click to expand...

I think my post would have been good if I did not write these 5 lines. And should have focused on the three.
 
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

I got a very good reply to you yesterday to your post as to why would Bangladesh want to visit pakistan to play against a number 8/9th ranked team.

But my post was deleted eveb before you read it.

Otherwise you might have wasted your 45 minutes on replying me.

Anyhow where do you see Mustafiz in 2 years if he stays fit ? What will be his odi and test ranking and what will be his averages and strike rates ? With his work ethics and attitude remaining the same ?

And wrt cutters the main issue is that majority do not pick it. So what do you say it will remain his deadly ball and majority would fail to pick it ?
 
MMHS said:
From a decent poster, you are trying your best to become a troll - remember, it takes lot to climb somewhere, doesn't take long to drop off. Don't put posts that instigates different debate if you want to build some reputation.

Your title & topic doesn't back each other - sorting best left-arm pacers & then selecting Paris on his pace. Like a lot of "experts" here, you also are too deluded with the "cutters" of Mustafiz, which is only part of his skill; but what he has is something that rest above his shoulders - you can watch time & again the dismissal of Gayle - how to work out a batsman. Cutter is something he is using because of the surface & the format, & it's giving him result - by result, I am saying ~20 wickets in 6 ODI matches against 2 of the best batting lineups around. I don't want to hurt posters ego here, but the "batting skill" that I have seen of PAK top orders in recent times, in his 1st 3/4 matches against Pakistan, this guy could have ran through that line-up from one end in one spell.

A lot of posters here have no clue that the most difficult ball for a pacer to master is the leg-cutter, for a left-armer, that actually comes into right-handers, particularly something that drift away in air & then cuts back after pitching - this is one skill, that's something natural to him. If he can maintain 135km with stock ball leaving right handers & the effort "cutters" holds it's line within stumps once or twice every over, on green tops, this guy 'll be a nightmare with semi old ball & these days, you can review half-cock LBWs denied by umpire on benefit of doubts.

Long way to go still for him, as I don't think he is physically ready yet & he 'll struggle on AUS/SAF wickets for his Bengali shoulders, but what you are intending is utter rubbish, wasn't worth for this expense of 15 minutes.
Click to expand...

No, on the current limited sample set he isn't in the same league as Starc and Amir yet.
 
If Amir can match starc in ODIs, it would be a miracle . starc is from another planet when it comes to ODIs.
 
In ODIs starc is a different beast. Amir can be the second best left arm pacer
 
Haroon786 said:
No, on the current limited sample set he isn't in the same league as Starc and Amir yet.
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That's debatable, I won't go to that - but, there is a 3rd name as well in OP, which is a bit dodgy.
 
How can you say Paris [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] when he is yet to play a international match? Same guys for Amir- the guy has been out of International cricket for 5yrs+ for god's sake.
 
in_cutter said:
How can you say Paris [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] when he is yet to play a international match? Same guys for Amir- the guy has been out of International cricket for 5yrs+ for god's sake.
Click to expand...

That is my opinion on basis of what I have seen of both.

This opinion can be totally irrational or can be proved totally wrong aswell.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

I got a very good reply to you yesterday to your post as to why would Bangladesh want to visit pakistan to play against a number 8/9th ranked team.

But my post was deleted eveb before you read it.

Otherwise you might have wasted your 45 minutes on replying me.

Anyhow where do you see Mustafiz in 2 years if he stays fit ? What will be his odi and test ranking and what will be his averages and strike rates ? With his work ethics and attitude remaining the same ?

And wrt cutters the main issue is that majority do not pick it. So what do you say it will remain his deadly ball and majority would fail to pick it ?
Click to expand...



You don't expect a bowler to take 3 wickets/match - 30 in 20 is more than enough. I don't know where Mustafiz 'll end up in 2 years time, neither I am indulging into the debate of what 'll be like Aamir after 5 years of wilderness or Strack after his stress fracture, but what Mustafiz did to start his career, had it been done by any Pakistani pacers, by this time PP server would have crashed.

Nothing wrong with your post, apart from those extra notes - you can think Mir Hamza or Sadaf Hussain as a better prospect than Mustafiz. Someone can prove that without the drifting big leg-spin, Shane Warne won't have been that deadly...............
 
MMHS said:
You don't expect a bowler to take 3 wickets/match - 30 in 20 is more than enough. I don't know where Mustafiz 'll end up in 2 years time, neither I am indulging into the debate of what 'll be like Aamir after 5 years of wilderness or Strack after his stress fracture, but what Mustafiz did to start his career, had it been done by any Pakistani pacers, by this time PP server would have crashed.

Nothing wrong with your post, apart from those extra notes - you can think Mir Hamza or Sadaf Hussain as a better prospect than Mustafiz. Someone can prove that without the drifting big leg-spin, Shane Warne won't have been that deadly...............
Click to expand...

Dale Steyn would be rubbish without his outswinger :murali
 
MMHS said:
You don't expect a bowler to take 3 wickets/match - 30 in 20 is more than enough. I don't know where Mustafiz 'll end up in 2 years time, neither I am indulging into the debate of what 'll be like Aamir after 5 years of wilderness or Strack after his stress fracture, but what Mustafiz did to start his career, had it been done by any Pakistani pacers, by this time PP server would have crashed.

Nothing wrong with your post, apart from those extra notes - you can think Mir Hamza or Sadaf Hussain as a better prospect than Mustafiz. Someone can prove that without the drifting big leg-spin, Shane Warne won't have been that deadly...............
Click to expand...

I wish and pray he keeps achieving huge in all formats.
 
Totally not sure with whats happened to [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] certainly changed his style of posts!
 
don't really rate starc, he just seems a heavy lobber of the ball like johnson, i mean he's effective enough i guess, but amir is a lot more versatile/skillful and will average significantly less with the ball in test cricket(which is all that matters) than starc
 
Mamoon said:
It is delusional to think that Amir would have been miles ahead of what Starc is today, if he wasn't banned. Yes he was better than him at 18, but players don't improve exponentially - prodigies hit their top level early and then it is all about maintaining that level; otherwise every young talented player will be at a legendary level by the times he's 30.

Starc has peaked in ODIs and his peak is as good (if not better) as any bowler to have played this format. Similarly, the way Amir bowled in England in 2010 was the zenith of fast bowling in helpful conditions. It doesn't get better than that.

Amir has the edge over Starc in Tests but the latter is finding his feet in this format. In ODIs, Amir will struggle big time to match his ODI impact.

Overall Starc is better than Amir, don't let his fans delude you. That of course doesn't mean that Amir isn't fantastic - honestly this is a great era for left-arm pacers - we have three pacers who can become legends of the game - Starc, Boult and Amir.

Of course we haven't seen enough of the likes of Joel Paris yet, but none of the others come close to this trio.
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I agree Strac is monster in ODI, he bowls at 150 clicks every ball... It will be very hard for any bowler to match or beat his 2015 WC performance, nobody was able to play him, he bullied everybody even in death where everybody else was taken to cleaners (except probably Wahab), but Wahab is obviously no match to the skills and pace of Strac... He won the WC on his own... Look at how he put NZ to silence not once but twice, when it matter most!!

In Test, Amir has better late swing and length variation... His reverse swing would be more potent....

Strac injury is major concern for his future, I hope he is fully recovered... Bowling 150 clicks with chronic Angle is major road block

Also, Left arm fast bowler era has just started!!! - Look at variety Strac, Johnson/Wahab, Amir, Boult, MR etc... We are not just getting more in quantity, range of left arm bowlers is expanding... There are lot options for left arm bowlers to play with... When we were growing up, there was nothing :(
 
Lol Amir has potential to be one of the world's best left arm pacers by now. But he hasn't played Internationals for 5 years. So we don't know just how good he is gonna be.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
MMHS said:
You don't expect a bowler to take 3 wickets/match - 30 in 20 is more than enough. I don't know where Mustafiz 'll end up in 2 years time, neither I am indulging into the debate of what 'll be like Aamir after 5 years of wilderness or Strack after his stress fracture, but what Mustafiz did to start his career, had it been done by any Pakistani pacers, by this time PP server would have crashed.
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Pretty much this.

Not even going to waste my time on this thread.
 
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yasir said:
I agree Strac is monster in ODI, he bowls at 150 clicks every ball...(
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Not even Shoaib Akhtar (the fastest bowler of the last 45 years, and probably the fastest ever to play the game), Brett Lee, Mohammad Zahid, Waqar Younis, Michael Holding or Jeff Thompson could bowl at 150 kmph every ball. Starc is far slower than them.

He is a glorified Mitchell Johnson. Let's judge him once he plays in dead tracks of Asia against top batting sides like Sri Lanka, South Africa, India, even Bangladesh. He has only played Pakistan and Afghanistan (that too, only once against Afg) in the flat and dead tracks of UAE.

He averages an unsightly 48.00 in 5 matches in England.

Stats against 'Weaklings' like New Zealand, Windies, or Pakistan - should be taken with a grain of salt - UNLESS there is ample corroborative evidence to support his 'greatness'.
 
bashar345 said:
He has only played Pakistan and Afghanistan (that too, only once against Afg) in the flat and dead tracks of UAE.


Stats against 'Weaklings' like New Zealand, Windies, or Pakistan - should be taken with a grain of salt - UNLESS there is ample corroborative evidence to support his 'greatness'.
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Word Cup finalists are weaklings? And if you have taken out New Zealand, WIndies and Pak and I'm sure you'll take out England, Bangla, Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka too as they are far greater weaklings, do you want him to take wickets of his teammates to prove himself?
 
Starc should be compared to Wasim Akram. He already won his team a WC early in his career and may end up as the greatest Australian fast bowler of all time by the time he retires from cricket.
 
I also do not agree to the point that Mustafiz will not be successful. He has been brilliant so far and will only improve with time.
 
aslaisnomasla said:
and smith to sachin Tendulkar !
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Not Smith but you can compare both Williamson and Root to Tendulkar. Both are accomplished batsmen and technically very sound very early in their career.

Comparison of Starc with Wasim is valid. Starc won his team a WC too with his bowling. He was unplayable in batting friendly conditions.
 
Slog said:
Word Cup finalists are weaklings? And if you have taken out New Zealand, WIndies and Pak and I'm sure you'll take out England, Bangla, Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka too as they are far greater weaklings, do you want him to take wickets of his teammates to prove himself?
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2003 World Cup finalists India were weaklings - they got trampled all over by Australia twice in the same tournament. 1983 World Cup finalists India were weaklings. They got whitewashed by the Windies in their home turf in India 5-0, immediately after the World Cup, proving their win in the 1983 World Cup final was a fluke.

2003 World Cup semifinalist Kenya was a weakling, a minnow.

2015 World Cup finalist New Zealand has always been a weakling and is still a weakling in an era of all-pervasive-weaklings.

The Kiwis got lucky that they faced the chokers Saffers in the Semis or they would not have made it to the finals. The Banglas that you call weaklings whitewashed the Kiwis, as far as I recall, and had them on the ropes in the tiny grounds of New Zealand.

England is where cricket originated, and England it is which usually produces the greatest technically capable batsmen able to challenge some of the better bowlers and batsmen of any era.

From what little I recall, both Windies and Pak are ranked below Bangla, English, and Lankans in ODIs. Yes, the Windies and Pak are legitimate weaklings in ODIs as of now. Their performances are testament to that.
 
Starc is the fastest and the beast of a swing bowler this era has seen.

Aamir has potential but not the best. Let him play again and then its good to judge him.

Mustafizur also have potential. But needs to perform overseas too. Again too early to judge him.

Boult is just behind starc. One of the best....

Paris... Ah! Let him debut. Even Tait had pace! But came out as a crap.
 
Paris?

Boult would have been a better option.

If Amir hits his pre-ban form, then he would easily be the best left arm bowler in Tests and all formats combined.

Starc is a wonderful ODI bowler and doing really well in T20's (not quite ODI standards yet), but very poor in Tests and needs to make a vast improvement in the longest format.

Boult at the moment, needs to raise his game in Tests, but has made a promising start to his LOI career.
 
It's far too early to make conclusions on Mustafizur, but it's very likely he will become a world class fast bowler. He's starting to master the art of swing from what I've seen in that Zimbabwe series. He has great control and accuracy. The guy's intelligent – which is the key thing. He can bowl quick. He made makes Mushfiqur Rahim in a hurry from what I've seen in that Zimbabwe series. 140 is quick enough if you have the variations and control. Starc hasn't done anything special in tests despite playing a lot of tests outside the subcontinent.

Obviously Starc is a beast in ODIs, but it's just far too early to judge other left armers.
 
Barragan said:
Paris?

Boult would have been a better option.

If Amir hits his pre-ban form, then he would easily be the best left arm bowler in Tests and all formats combined.

Starc is a wonderful ODI bowler and doing really well in T20's (not quite ODI standards yet), but very poor in Tests and needs to make a vast improvement in the longest format.

Boult at the moment, needs to raise his game in Tests, but has made a promising start to his LOI career.
Click to expand...

From when 31 average became poor for a guy who played 15 odd tests??
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

I got a very good reply to you yesterday to your post as to why would Bangladesh want to visit pakistan to play against a number 8/9th ranked team.

But my post was deleted eveb before you read it.

Otherwise you might have wasted your 45 minutes on replying me.

Anyhow where do you see Mustafiz in 2 years if he stays fit ? What will be his odi and test ranking and what will be his averages and strike rates ? With his work ethics and attitude remaining the same ?

And wrt cutters the main issue is that majority do not pick it. So what do you say it will remain his deadly ball and majority would fail to pick it ?
Click to expand...

Lol no admins will delete your post if it had quality.
 
On topic, right now amir could be compared to irfan pathan.

Irfan was also called a legend in making.... But we all know where he is now.

Amir could become a good fast bowler.... But let him play a few matches before even considering him good (in international arena)

Generally people psychologically get blocked after a severe punishment in their professional field. Let's see is amir mentally strong or not.
 
In tests boult would be the number 1 young leftie right now, he was disappointing here for the most part but his overall record is good.
 
Why is amir mentioned in the same sentence as Starc? Starc is in a different league, the way Amir has been overhyped, he is being set up for a big fall, the expectations people have from Amir are unrealistic
 
Ability-wise, Starc bhai is in a different league. In ODIs, I am even temtpted to call him Wasim upgraded. He is phenomenal.
 
From what I've gathered from convicts posts Paris won't have much of an international career with him being made of glass and all. So this thread is really Amir v Starc. On that, I'd say Starc is the better ODI bowler based on his results and ability to bowl jaffas. In Tests it's unclear with Amir coming back and Starc yet to hit his stride in Test cricket.
 
This pre-emptive strike of already labelling Amir best in the world without playing a single match for 05 years is helpful to "feed on the delusion that Pakistan has amazing talent".

Other than that, right now Amir is just a potential.
 
Paris is a really good prospect but he seems to have gained 10 kmph over the course of this thread
 
Zak_Fan said:
Because of the extreme 155kph pace.
Click to expand...

Wasim turnt up was just as fast with bounce which Starc doesn't have. Don't be deceived by the speed on the speedgun, it doesn't take trajectory into account. Even though it calculates speed out of the hand, it's still calculating point A to point B. A fuller length will always show as faster on the speedgun even though the shorter ball might actually be traveling faster but because of the trajectory, it will record as slower.

Here read this: http://www.hardballtimes.com/zoooomaya-and-speed-guns/
Cricket speedguns are similar.

Starc bowls with a low arm and consistently bowls the fuller length thus more in line with the speed gun so the speed shows up faster than someone who bowls with a higher arm and bowls shorter. Starc's recent fastest spell though similar on the speedgun to Johnson in the Ashes wasn't as fast because Johnson combined pace and bounce while Starc was just pace.

What does Starc have apart from the inswinging yorker? Wasim had a nasty bouncer, yorker, slower ball, made the ball sing both ways(reverse or new), cut the ball, seamed the ball and he did it all with an unpredictable action because it didn't change much whether he bowled full or short, the body stayed upright, the trick was in the fast arm. He could open, come in the middle or bowl at the death and displayed a ridiculous amount of skill doing so.

To be Wasim upgraded, he'd have to be just as skilled and faster which he isn't.
 
Starc is going through a dream run, especially since the world cup. I have never seen a left armer bowl this fast and furious in my lifetime as a cricket viewer. I keep saying it, the world cup they won is all due to Starc. NZ and India would have beaten them if not for Starc's bizarre resurgence as a speed demon.

Amir doesn't look very pacy now but he has the skills to be the best in the world. 135-145 with movement is good enough, in fact perfect.
 
We still would have won the semi without starc, once we hit 300+ it was game over for india.
 
ChachaCricket said:
Wasim turnt up was just as fast with bounce which Starc doesn't have. Don't be deceived by the speed on the speedgun, it doesn't take trajectory into account. Even though it calculates speed out of the hand, it's still calculating point A to point B. A fuller length will always show as faster on the speedgun even though the shorter ball might actually be traveling faster but because of the trajectory, it will record as slower.

Here read this: http://www.hardballtimes.com/zoooomaya-and-speed-guns/
Cricket speedguns are similar.

Starc bowls with a low arm and consistently bowls the fuller length thus more in line with the speed gun so the speed shows up faster than someone who bowls with a higher arm and bowls shorter. Starc's recent fastest spell though similar on the speedgun to Johnson in the Ashes wasn't as fast because Johnson combined pace and bounce while Starc was just pace.

What does Starc have apart from the inswinging yorker? Wasim had a nasty bouncer, yorker, slower ball, made the ball sing both ways(reverse or new), cut the ball, seamed the ball and he did it all with an unpredictable action because it didn't change much whether he bowled full or short, the body stayed upright, the trick was in the fast arm. He could open, come in the middle or bowl at the death and displayed a ridiculous amount of skill doing so.

To be Wasim upgraded, he'd have to be just as skilled and faster which he isn't.
Click to expand...

There has never been a more skilled fast bowler than him and I highly doubt that there will ever be one
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Starc is going through a dream run, especially since the world cup. I have never seen a left armer bowl this fast and furious in my lifetime as a cricket viewer. I keep saying it, the world cup they won is all due to Starc. NZ and India would have beaten them if not for Starc's bizarre resurgence as a speed demon.

Amir doesn't look very pacy now but he has the skills to be the best in the world. 135-145 with movement is good enough, in fact perfect.
Click to expand...

Huh?
He's been a great limited overs bowler for years
 
Zak_Fan said:
Ability-wise, Starc bhai is in a different league. In ODIs, I am even temtpted to call him Wasim upgraded. He is phenomenal.
Click to expand...

That's an exaggeration. You can compare them in ODIs (though Akram is still better because of his overall skills). In tests, Akram is miles ahead.
 
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