The curious case of Kamran Akmal vs Khurram Manzoor

[Forum363]

Watching Khurram bat against Karachi just now reminded me just how good a batsman the guy is at this level. Even the commentators were comparing his hitting strength to Sharjeel. Some blistering shots.

However, while enjoying the innings, it is clear this guy is not an international cricketer and should not play for Pakistan. He has performed brilliantly in domestic cricket before and been throughly exposed at the international level.

This is in fact, incredibly similar to another cricketer - the much beloved Kami. He also has a knack for destroying domestic bowlers and looking like a world beater. However unlike Manzoor he has been persisted with for hundreds of matches. Now admittedly, he is a keeper too, but even his most arduous fans accept he is a terrible keeper and it is his top order batting that brings 'value'.

After Kami's recent PSL performances which included a couple of good innings, there has been another clamour to add him to the national side.

Kami is 40 years old, unfit and has terrible footwork / technique similar to Khurram.

My question is simple - why does someone like Kamran continue to find their way back in the team when others do not. What is it about Kamran that has allowed him to maintain a 20 run average over hundreds of matches at a rubbish strike rate, I believe the worst for any batsman to play for Pakistan, yet still continue to be selected. (His 'keeping' skills excluded)

 

[Pakpak]

Because apparently he can win 'matches on his own'. I don't remember a single game where he did that on his own. If someone can even pull up 10 games I'd be amazed.

 

[reversehook]

last time kabh intnl khaila tha, zara check karna? bhai khair hai?

otherwise agree, yes both arent good enough for intnl level..

 

[PakPremi]

Strong backing having played a lot of international cricket , he has obviously made lots of friends to support him. Kami has to be the worst batsman to play for Pakistan, if you go on the chamces given to him and his performances.

 

[Forum363]

Because apparently he can win 'matches on his own'. I don't remember a single game where he did that on his own. If someone can even pull up 10 games I'd be amazed.

Funny how everyone hates Fakhar, but off the top of my head I can remember a few matches he has won such as the CT final, and tri-series final against Australia. And he has played a fraction of the matches Kami has.

 

[Forum363]

last time kabh intnl khaila tha, zara check karna? bhai khair hai?

otherwise agree, yes both arent good enough for intnl level..

2017. When he performed in the PSL and the selectors decided a 37+ player had turned over a new leaf. Guess what, he performed at a 20 run average in line with his career and was dropped.

The point is, now in 2020, people are adamant he should be back in the team. In fact [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] is insisting that Babar is dropped down to number 3 to accommodate Kami as opener.

My question is, why the double standards compared to other domestic bullies.

 

[ads101]

Because Kamran has done it in all domestic formats, and has been the best batsman over all PSLs. You can't compare. If he wasn't called Kamran, he would have been called up to the international squad by now, it's his previous record going against him.

Khurram tbh deserved an ODI call up for some time and has been performing for ages. It's sad he's been overlooked. And when he did play internationals, he hardly got a chance in ODIs, mostly in tests despite his domestic record being superior in the 50 over format.

It is also clear we need more teams in the PSL. There's hardly a chance for domestic cricketers or young cricketers to shine, all the spots are taken up by pakistani national or former pakistan team regulars and international players.

 

[ElRaja]

its not that difficult, until the england tour of 2006 he was an exceptional wicket keeper, one of the best i've ever seen in pak.

after that his keeping fell off a cliff, however he scored plenty of test runs, averaging 60 odd in Pakistan. he loves flat Pakistani batting decks which further explains his bullying of domestic teams.

khurrum never excelled in any discipline at international level, hence he never got similar chances and only got to play one or two tests in pakistan.

a whole generation of pakistani cricketers got destroyed because pakistani domestic cricket did not preaper young players for uae pitches.

 

[Pakpak]

Because Kamran has done it in all domestic formats, and has been the best batsman over all PSLs. You can't compare. If he wasn't called Kamran, he would have been called up to the international squad by now, it's his previous record going against him.

Khurram tbh deserved an ODI call up for some time and has been performing for ages. It's sad he's been overlooked. And when he did play internationals, he hardly got a chance in ODIs, mostly in tests despite his domestic record being superior in the 50 over format.

It is also clear we need more teams in the PSL. There's hardly a chance for domestic cricketers or young cricketers to shine, all the spots are taken up by pakistani national or former pakistan team regulars and international players.

His PSL records are the same. Ie 10 innings with 7 poor/disaster performances and 3 good ones with a century here or there to pad up his stats and make him seem like world beater. His international career is the same, last call-up, 1 innings with 48 runs and the other three combined 36 runs at 12 avg an innings. As for other domestic cups, the national t20 cup, he barely even averaged 10 (even if he did that!) and was at the bottom of the rankings.

 

[Hawkeye]

Khurram is poor as a batsman. Nowhere near Kami and Sharjeel in ability.

Can't play 360 degree strokes like Kami and doesn't rely on timing as much as Kami does at the start of the innings to smash the bowlers.

Poor thread and comparison, the usual for OP.

Both aren't world class but Khurram isn't even decent within Pak.

 

[iniqbal223]

Because Kamran has done it in all domestic formats, and has been the best batsman over all PSLs. You can't compare. If he wasn't called Kamran, he would have been called up to the international squad by now, it's his previous record going against him.

Khurram tbh deserved an ODI call up for some time and has been performing for ages. It's sad he's been overlooked. And when he did play internationals, he hardly got a chance in ODIs, mostly in tests despite his domestic record being superior in the 50 over format.

It is also clear we need more teams in the PSL. There's hardly a chance for domestic cricketers or young cricketers to shine, all the spots are taken up by pakistani national or former pakistan team regulars and international players.

Because the legend Kamran was given proper chance of 4 T20s and 3 ODIs against the 3rd string WI, and he could not do anything even after playing so many matches and so many returns to international cricket.. And this is his strongest part -- batting -- which is below average than the international cricket demands..
His fielding/keeping is a laughing stock..so just in case if you just started watching cricket then better get some facts before coming out in open.. Help you save yourself with lot of embarrassment

 

[Mueez]

Didn’t Khurram used to open the innings in T20’s in 2016?

 

[iniqbal223]

Both Kami and Khurram are domestic bullies.. Just go and watch Khurram Manzoor batting in 2016 Asia Cup, you yourself will get embarrassed..

Cricket is a competitive sports, other more deserved players are also working hard to play. If someone repeatedly fails then he should not be allowed to be part of international team

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Do people just look at stats? Khurram Manzoor’s innings tofay was all over the place. Edged quite a few deliveries and rode his luck to his 50. Should have been caught out way before with proper field placements and better fielding. Commentators were making fun of him too.

Even though I’m still 50/50 about him getting a call up, Kamran has half of the PSL hundreds and is the highest tournament run scorer. Very different discussion to Khurram who is nowhere close. His innings are not flukey, whether or not you put that down to domestic bullying. I am however concerned about him not performing this season after that initial 101. I would rather have Sharjeel open with Babar and Haider one down.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Khurram Manzoor has as much right to complain about lack of chances as Asif Ali has. Asif Ali only needs to play test cricket to match him

As for the Akmal, the Farhats had much more chances even after they went to the icl but that's obviously due to their relatives

 

[happydavy]

Because apparently he can win 'matches on his own'. I don't remember a single game where he did that on his own. If someone can even pull up 10 games I'd be amazed.

2009 t20 world cup final? By the time first wicket fell, kamran had decisively tilted the game in Pakistan's favor. He had a fairly decent international record, better than many many Pakistani batsmen who have played for far longer than him. He has 10+ international centuries, don't think it's a small achievement.

 

[Pakpak]

2009 t20 world cup final? By the time first wicket fell, kamran had decisively tilted the game in Pakistan's favor. He had a fairly decent international record, better than many many Pakistani batsmen who have played for far longer than him. He has 10+ international centuries, don't think it's a small achievement.

That final was won when when Sri Lanka were 2 down in the first over and 75-6. And not to mention by Afridi's 50 and helping us get over the line. As much as I hate Afridi too. At BEST Akmal played a supporting role. Others had much bigger claims to helping us win it.

After 100s of games if this is the best his fans can come up with, well it tells everything.

 

[Forum363]

2009 t20 world cup final? By the time first wicket fell, kamran had decisively tilted the game in Pakistan's favor. He had a fairly decent international record, better than many many Pakistani batsmen who have played for far longer than him. He has 10+ international centuries, don't think it's a small achievement.

Are you kidding? Kamran played the decisive role in the final? I thought perhaps I had made a mistake so I rechecked the scorecard. Kamran fell at 7.1 overs with the score at 48. That is just about keeping up with the required run rate of 7 an over. A decent contribution but ridiculous to call it the decisive role. That would be Amir's wicket of Dilshan (batsman of the tournament) in the first over. That would be Razzaq taking out Jayasuriya, Mubarak and Jayawardene within the powerplay. That would be Afridi giving away just 20 runs in his 4 overs and then taking us home with the bat. Absolutely laughable to say he decisively tilted the game in Pakistan's favour.

And secondly, please give me some examples of the many many Pakistan batsmen who have played for longer than him and have a worse international record. I have been asking this question for a long time and never received an answer and here you are bringing it up yourself.

 

[Hasan123]

Kamran Akmal is a much better player. That is why he gets more chances.

 

[PakPremi]

Kamran Akmal is a much better player. That is why he gets more chances.

No he is not, probably one of the worst to play for Pakistan purely as a batsman, considering the 100s of chances afforded to him.

 

[Forum363]

2009 t20 world cup final? By the time first wicket fell, kamran had decisively tilted the game in Pakistan's favor. He had a fairly decent international record, better than many many Pakistani batsmen who have played for far longer than him. He has 10+ international centuries, don't think it's a small achievement.

Please can you confirm some examples of the many Pakistan batsmen who have played far longer than him with a worse international record?

 

[The_Odd_One]

Let's not forget that Kamran was one of the best players around 2005. He played some excellent innings in very challenging conditions. Though, Manzoor deserved more chances in ODIs, he has been nowhere near Kamran as a batsman.

 

[Hasan123]

No he is not, probably one of the worst to play for Pakistan purely as a batsman, considering the 100s of chances afforded to him.

He is not one of the worst players to play for Pakistan.

 

[coy0607]

Khurram Manzoor would definitely be in the right to complain. He has been a prolific scorer in List-A cricket for 15 years now, and most of those years Pakistan has had one of the worst batting line-ups in world cricket.

People can sit at home and say Manzoor doesn't have a good technique, is a hack, etc. But he's scored a ton of runs in domestic, and should have been given an extended run around 2010 (maybe as Butt's replacement)

 

[Forum363]

He is not one of the worst players to play for Pakistan.

Can you name some worse batsmen who played close to that many games for Pakistan?

 

[Forum363]

Khurram Manzoor would definitely be in the right to complain. He has been a prolific scorer in List-A cricket for 15 years now, and most of those years Pakistan has had one of the worst batting line-ups in world cricket.

People can sit at home and say Manzoor doesn't have a good technique, is a hack, etc. But he's scored a ton of runs in domestic, and should have been given an extended run around 2010 (maybe as Butt's replacement)

Exactly. It’s not like Kami has a textbook technique. He leans on his bat while the bowler is running up.

For those saying Kami was decent once in a while and has played a couple of good international innings - well if Khurram had been given HUNDREDS of international chances I’m sure he would have a few good innings too.

 

[Forum363]

Let's not forget that Kamran was one of the best players around 2005. He played some excellent innings in very challenging conditions. Though, Manzoor deserved more chances in ODIs, he has been nowhere near Kamran as a batsman.

What exactly do you mean by one of the best players? In Pakistan? In the world?

Regardless, his performance 15 years ago is completely and utterly irrelevant. 15 years, seriously?

 

[Forum363]

2009 t20 world cup final? By the time first wicket fell, kamran had decisively tilted the game in Pakistan's favor. He had a fairly decent international record, better than many many Pakistani batsmen who have played for far longer than him. He has 10+ international centuries, don't think it's a small achievement.

Still waiting for you to give some examples of the many many batsman. Or at least be decent and accept that you just made that up.

 

[Hasan123]

Can you name some worse batsmen who played close to that many games for Pakistan?

He won games for Pakistan and also played a part in us winning an ICC tournament. He is not as bad as you are making out.

 

[Hawkeye]

He won games for Pakistan and also played a part in us winning an ICC tournament. He is not as bad as you are making out.

Huge gulf in batting ability of the two, range of shots, etc.

You can trust [MENTION=144683]Forum363[/MENTION] to make absurd comparisons.

 

[HuzaifaE]

I've never come across such an incurious case. They're both garbage /thread

 

[Forum363]

He won games for Pakistan and also played a part in us winning an ICC tournament. He is not as bad as you are making out.

Then perhaps you can answer the question. Name some worse batsmen who have played consistently as [MENTION=147130]happydavy[/MENTION] claimed and has now disappeared

 

[Forum363]

I've never come across such an incurious case. They're both garbage /thread

They are both garbage at international level. The curious case is why is one accepted as such and the other treated as a hero even after being given (and failing in) hundreds of chances?

 

[Forum363]

Huge gulf in batting ability of the two, range of shots, etc.

You can trust [MENTION=144683]Forum363[/MENTION] to make absurd comparisons.

The only thing that matters after this many games is performance. And Kami has not performed for Pakistan. The odd innings doesn’t matter.

Even Yasir shah has a century in Australia. It happens when you get given that many chances.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

IMO a peak Kami is a better batsman than a peak KM .Thing is Kami is way past his prime and didn't really learn from his mistakes when he has time to do so. PCB did KM dirty though , the guy could easily fitssin our test team(even now) and maybe even ODI .

 

[hitthestump]

I'm pretty sure the Pakpassion term 'TTF' was invented for Khurram Manzoor?

 

[Forum363]

IMO a peak Kami is a better batsman than a peak KM .Thing is Kami is way past his prime and didn't really learn from his mistakes when he has time to do so. PCB did KM dirty though , the guy could easily fitssin our test team(even now) and maybe even ODI .

I’d say a peak Nasir Jamshed was on par with Saeed Anwar. But what good is that when the ‘peak’ lasts a couple of games? Like Nasir, Kami had only a few good innings and so his ‘peak’ is completely irrelevant.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

I'm pretty sure the Pakpassion term 'TTF' was invented for Khurram Manzoor?

Taufeeq Umar