The double-standards regarding pitches?

[Saj]

It's ok to have a green top that seams and swings from the first ball to the last and makes a batsman's life a misery.

But it's not ok to prepare a pitch that has a lot of cracks and takes spin from ball of the match?

Discuss.

 

[Hasan123]

You are right.

We need to understand that home teams are allowed to prepare pitches that suit their strengths. The whining of Vaughan and Mark Waugh should be ignored. I'm sure home teams will take no notice anyway.

I have no problem with a home team producing a pitch to their advantage . It is called test cricket for a reason. Producing the same pitches would be boring.

Another thing is that there is a myth that India produce rank turners. This is actually false, most tests in India are producing high scoring games and something in for the seamers early on.

If India were producing rank turners , I think they may have lost more tests but still won series , just not so 1 sided at times.

 

[Extra_Cover]

The argument is not producing tracks to suit home conditions and I'm totally with it afterall its home advantage.

The argument is mostly around the safety of players. A rank turner on Day 1 would be minefield on Day 5 that could cause some physical harm. If the pitch can spin square its all good but if a pitch throws excessive bounce either way then its a problem.

I didn't had any issues with recent pitch as it was not a minefield.

On a side note, its high time we introduce no toss rule in bilateral cricket. Toss should only be limited to tournaments.

 

[street cricketer]

The common answer you'll get is that a seaming wicket usually settles down and becomes better to bat as time goes on, and therefore it's a good pitch.

There arises the question what really makes a pitch, a "good pitch". Is it becoming better to bat on as the match goes on or is it offering equal chance to both teams regardless of the toss. A wicket that starts as a green seamer on day 1 but becomes one that's better to bat on later is actually a poor wicket because it absolutely shafts the team that has to bat first after losing the toss. It's actually like playing cricket in two different venues - side A playing on a greentop on day 1 and side B playing on a road on day 2. This is what usually happens in NZ whereas in South Africa, the wicket starts seaming on day 1 and continues seaming till the test ends.

In many ways, even if a square turner like the one we had just now has poor conditions for batting, the pitch was exploding from ball 5 of the test on day 1 and the disparity in the conditions when both sides bat is not as great as it is in the scenario mentioned above. It was a minefield on day 1 and it remained one till the test ended. As far as the bounce is not very unvariable, square turners and green seamers are just fine. It's only when unvariable bounce gets added to it, it becomes a poor pitch as in the case of Nagpur wicket vs SA or the Wanderers wicket that India played in 2017.

 

[Titan24]

Every team has the right to prepare the home tracks as per their strengths as far as it is upto the defined regulations by ICC.

However, one thing which needs to be considered with regards to the rank turners is that pitch deteriorates quickly with each passing day and the conditions to bat and ball are much more different in each innings than they are on a green track. A rank turner adds a lot more weight to the lady luck with the result of the toss which I think is something which makes it pretty different from a green track which can also vary on each day but, nowhere close to the deterioration and variation which the rank turners face. Batting first on a rank turner is considerably easy in comparison to the consequent innings while green tracks do face fluctuation but, its not as close to what we sometimes see on rank turners in my opinion.

Again its the right of the home teams to prepare the tracks as they like but, as a cricket fan I would like the role of the toss in terms of the overall impact on the match to be less than what it is on rank turners.

 

[HitWicket]

In general pitches will spin more as the game proceeds and the amount of swing (or how long the swing lasts for) will decrease as a match goes on.

 

[Saurav]

The argument is not producing tracks to suit home conditions and I'm totally with it afterall its home advantage.

The argument is mostly around the safety of players. A rank turner on Day 1 would be minefield on Day 5 that could cause some physical harm. If the pitch can spin square its all good but if a pitch throws excessive bounce either way then its a problem.

I didn't had any issues with recent pitch as it was not a minefield.

On a side note, its high time we introduce no toss rule in bilateral cricket. Toss should only be limited to tournaments.

Bat flip instead?

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.crictracker.com/india-in-danger-of-losing-world-test-championship-points-if-chennai-pitch-is-rated-poor/

Even if India go on to win the ongoing second Test against England at the MA Chidambaram Stadium in Chennai, they might not get the full 30 points because of the much-talked-about Chepauk pitch. At a time when every point is crucial, India might be slapped with point penalty if the Chepauk wicket is rated as ‘Poor’ by the ICC.

The pitch has become the talk of the town and has divided the cricketing fraternity into two halves. With the pitch favouring the spinners right from the start, several pundits, experts and fans have criticised it. The critics have also taken shots at Team India and have alleged that the hosts purposely prepared such a wicket.

The game is looking set to end inside four days and all eyes are now on the match-referee. If he gives a ‘Poor’ rating to the Chennai pitch, Team India will lose three points in accordance with the ICC regulations. If that happens, it will be a massive blow for Virat Kohli & Co. who are chasing the one remaining spot in the final of the World Test Championship.

India currently need to win the series against England 2-1 or 3-1 to qualify for the final, which takes place in June at Lord’s. New Zealand are already in the finals. Having lost the series-opener, the home side looks set to draw level in the series by winning the ongoing game.

What is a ‘Poor’ pitch?
According to ICC’s rules, the pitches are divided into different categories depending on the nature of the contest. As per the rules, a pitch is rated ‘Poor’ if it does not allow an even contest between bat and ball. As far as the ongoing game is concerned, India have done well with both bat and ball so far but it is England‘s failure with the bat that has played a big role in the pitch’s criticism.

“A poor pitch is one that does not even allow an even contest between bat and ball, either by favouring batters too much, and not giving the bowlers (seam and spin) from either side sufficient opportunity to take wickets, or by favouring the bowlers too much (seam or spin), and not giving the batters from either team the opportunity to make runs,” reads the ICC’s rule.

At the same time, the rules also state that a pitch is poor if it assists the spinners right from the start of the match. This is where things could get trickier for the home side as the spinners were able to get a sharp turn on the pitch right from day one.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

The common answer you'll get is that a seaming wicket usually settles down and becomes better to bat as time goes on, and therefore it's a good pitch.
.

By the time the wicket settles down a major part of the match would have already been completed, so this "common answer" is incorrect in this context .
Also, games on a greentop finish way earlier then a rank turner, so the "test match should last 5 days " theory is equally violated in both situations .

The one and only reason why rank turners are cursed is that the two countries where test cricket is most popular don't really like playing on them and instead of working on their weakness they prefer shouting and complaining.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes there are double-standards but it is also important to understand that a rank-turner is worse than a green pitch due to the following reasons:

1. green and seam-friendly wickets ease out after the first day and a half while a turner gets worse and worse.

2. seam-friendly wickets do not always play out as expected, but the ball will always turn on rank-turners.

3. The margin of error for bowlers in seam-friendly wickets is lower. You still have to pitch in the right areas and bowl right lengths. On the other hand, it is very easy for spinners to take wickets on turners and a batsman will have to play exceptionally well to negate them.

Even an average spinner is going to take 3-4 wickets on a turner but that is not always the case for seamers on green pitches.

4. Toss plays a much bigger role on turners, especially when the home (Asian) teams wins the toss.

They are pretty much guaranteed to win, whereas winning the toss on a seamer pitch is helpful to the foreign sides, but it is less influential than Asian sides winning tosses on turners.

5. It virtually guarantees a win for the Asian team. Yes once in a blue moon it might backfire like the Pune Test in 2017, but the vast majority of times, the Asian side will win because they have better spinners.

On the other hand, the seamer wicket in foreign countries will not create such a massive gulf between the two sides, because that wicket will also play the Asian seamers into play.

No seaming pitch guarantees the demise of an Asian team (unless you are Australia and you are hosting Pakistan) the same way a turning pitch guarantees the demise of a foreign team.

Nevertheless, it is what it is. There is nothing wrong in capitalizing on home advantage. Turners bring their own uniqueness to Test cricket, and it is fine.

 

[burger_uno]

i dont know why but as i pak supporter, i would have more of an issue if pak had to play on the chennai pitch compared to the pitches encountered on the recent nz tour. for one thing, grass pitches dont deteriorate so both teams play in similar conditions. plus experience pak gained in nz would help the team when it played in england or may be in s.a. as well. dustbowl indian pitches are specific to india and foreign batsman cant really prepare for it. toss also plays a big part. this is why the 1987 victory in banglore was such a satisfying one. the pitch was complete minefield. fortunately indians lost the toss so they were behind right from the start. yt highlights still make for fascinating viewing. kapil dev played a horrible hoick in the first inning and let pak back in the match. end was as nerve racking as any match that pak has played in.

 

[leatherface58]

Double standards or not, India is going to roll out these pitches and other teams better learn to play on them. No point holding out hope for the dreaded poor pitch rating from ICC. It is not going to change the results in the record books. To their credit, the English team did not complain once about the pitch. It is just the armchair experts and ex-players who were never flash in the subcontinent, who see it fit to get some attention on themselves.

 

[Robert]

It's ok to have a green top that seams and swings from the first ball to the last and makes a batsman's life a misery.

But it's not ok to prepare a pitch that has a lot of cracks and takes spin from ball of the match?

Discuss.

When teams come to England they can expect varying degrees of slow seam. Depending on the weather and time of day, the ball might or might not swing. Lords, Headingley and TB are seamers. Oval and OT might offer some turn later on.

When teams come to the Subcontinent they can expect varying degrees of spin.

When teams come to Australia they can expect varying degrees of bounce.

A properly capable batsman can adjust to all of these.

That’s it.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

You come to someone's backyard they will make a pitch suited to their strengths and target your weaknesses, it's their prerogative and there's nothing a visiting nation can do about it until they take revenge when the team returns on their home soil.

 

[Robert]

You come to someone's backyard they will make a pitch suited to their strengths and target your weaknesses, it's their prerogative and there's nothing a visiting nation can do about it until they take revenge when the team returns on their home soil.

It’s more the case that countries produce bowlers that suit the wickets. So England is the home of seam, India the home of spin, Australia the home of quicks with a series of outstanding wrist spinners.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

In general pitches will spin more as the game proceeds and the amount of swing (or how long the swing lasts for) will decrease as a match goes on.

Except that the match doesn't last long on a green top .

 

[Pakhs]

The problem with square turner like the one seen in the last test in India is that its by definition an under prepared pitch and very obvious done on purpose.

Where green top can stay green through out the match and spinner will come into the game later. There is a chance green top will last 5 days as it eases out but a pitch thats under prepared to start with cant be repaired in between match.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Lot of sore losers amongst the english pundits like Vaughan and Agnew. They should be criticising the Eng team for not adapting to the conditions instead of blaming the conditions.

 

[Energy]

If India would have scored 150 in the second innings then the argument of the turner deteriorating consistently would hold. But it's fair to say that England batted poorly 3 times (2nd innings first test, and both innings second test).

 

[Buffet]

If India would have scored 150 in the second innings then the argument of the turner deteriorating consistently would hold. But it's fair to say that England batted poorly 3 times (2nd innings first test, and both innings second test).

+1

Eng batted well on belter in the first inning of the first test. The last 3 innings had varying amounts of turn and Eng batted poorly in the last 3 innings.

India scored near 300 in even 2nd inning. You just have to bat well.

 

[IMMY69]

No issues with balls spinning square on the first morning of a test...
However, I would be concerned if the wicket turned even more and had variable bounce by day 3 or 4 because that would mean the team winning the toss and batting first will win the game 9.5 times out of 10..

That would make the toss interesting and the rest of it pretty boring.

 

[street cricketer]

The problem with square turner like the one seen in the last test in India is that its by definition an under prepared pitch and very obvious done on purpose.

Where green top can stay green through out the match and spinner will come into the game later. There is a chance green top will last 5 days as it eases out but a pitch thats under prepared to start with cant be repaired in between match.

How would you define a "well prepared" pitch in cricketing terms?

 

[Bewal Express]

It's ok to have a green top that seams and swings from the first ball to the last and makes a batsman's life a misery.

But it's not ok to prepare a pitch that has a lot of cracks and takes spin from ball of the match?

Discuss.

I thought those pitches are just as poor as the one in Chennai.

 

[IMMY69]

If India would have scored 150 in the second innings then the argument of the turner deteriorating consistently would hold. But it's fair to say that England batted poorly 3 times (2nd innings first test, and both innings second test).

Pretty much this.

 

[IMMY69]

Traditionally you would want a good wicket for the first three days and with the spinners coming to it on day 4 and 5 with a bit more variable bounce.

That's the ideal wicket because it won't make average bowlers look like Warne, Batsmen would still have to work hard to play a long innings and the toss wouldn't be so decisive...

 

[Pakhs]

How would you define a "well prepared" pitch in cricketing terms?

Well prepared subcontinent pitch will start as hard and firm and slowly break up from day 3 onward. But if you prepare an under prepared pitch it will deteriorate from ball one and the explosion of dust will be visible from day one. No reason for under prepared pitch when you have a full time highly paid curator who only job is to prepare the pitch well unless ofcourse been told otherwise by home team captain.

 

[Robert]

Except that the match doesn't last long on a green top .

It depends on whether tha batters have good defences. The Pujaras and Williamsons can bat for a long time without scoring many runs.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Well prepared subcontinent pitch will start as hard and firm and slowly break up from day 3 onward. But if you prepare an under prepared pitch it will deteriorate from ball one and the explosion of dust will be visible from day one. No reason for under prepared pitch when you have a full time highly paid curator who only job is to prepare the pitch well unless ofcourse been told otherwise by home team captain.

That is your artificial definition. I have seen subcontinent pitches where teams have scored 600, 700 for fun. I have also seen pitches where seamers have rolled teams over.

 

[street cricketer]

Well prepared subcontinent pitch will start as hard and firm and slowly break up from day 3 onward. But if you prepare an under prepared pitch it will deteriorate from ball one and the explosion of dust will be visible from day one. No reason for under prepared pitch when you have a full time highly paid curator who only job is to prepare the pitch well unless ofcourse been told otherwise by home team captain.

What's wrong if spin happens from day 1?

 

[Ab Fan]

https://www.crictracker.com/india-in-danger-of-losing-world-test-championship-points-if-chennai-pitch-is-rated-poor/

Makes complete sense.

 

[Ab Fan]

As long as the pitch is not like Nagpur 2015 and Johannesburg 2018, I would say it is fine. Both the pitches were absymal and wickets taken on those two pitches should be declared void and invalid.

There should be a rule that runs and wickets on "poor pitches" as declared by ICC should not be counted in players stats.

Chennai 2021 was pretty fine by all standards.

 

[viveks]

I generally think that if a team is getting bowled out for less than 100 on day 1 pitches where even part time bowlers look amazing, then it's quite stupid. But as long as good bowling is rewarded(to a degree) and bad bowling is not, then I'm all for it. E.g. the recent Ind vs Eng test match, Moeen Ali bowled like trash and got smashed, he basically lost them the game, whereas Indian spinners bowled well and won India the game.

 

[Pakhs]

What's wrong if spin happens from day 1?

Its not if the ball is turning its why ts turning. If its turning due to under prepared pitch and explosions can be seen then thats not good regardless of how players play on it.

 

[silentkiller187]

Its only a problem because those that enjoy playing on green seam friendly wickets usually struggle to produce spinners with enough quality to make the most of a turning pitch, shane warne aside.

 

[Robert]

Its only a problem because those that enjoy playing on green seam friendly wickets usually struggle to produce spinners with enough quality to make the most of a turning pitch, shane warne aside.

Australian tracks are not green seamers. They are hard with not much lateral movement. Wrist-spinners like bouncy track like quick bowlers.

 

[Arajit]

In general pitches will spin more as the game proceeds and the amount of swing (or how long the swing lasts for) will decrease as a match goes on.

I think you mean to say seam not swing. Swing has nothing to do with pitch condition rather swing depends on weather and age/type of ball in use.

 

[HitWicket]

I think you mean to say seam not swing. Swing has nothing to do with pitch condition rather swing depends on weather and age/type of ball in use.

A ball being bowled on a rough, dry pitch going to 'age' faster than a ball being bowled on a green carpet however.

 

[Arajit]

A ball being bowled on a rough, dry pitch going to 'age' faster than a ball being bowled on a green carpet however.

Marginally true. Ball does swing on dry pitches too if conditions favour and the ball in use is dukes.

 

[street cricketer]

Its not if the ball is turning its why ts turning. If its turning due to under prepared pitch and explosions can be seen then thats not good regardless of how players play on it.

You cannot prepare a pitch that supports spin from day 1 in Chennai without underpreparing it. A pitch that supports spin from day 1 was needed to eliminate the toss advantage and keep it fair for both teams, unlike a pitch that starts as a road and becomes a minefield later or a green seamer that becomes a road on day 2.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Very interesting thread.
The Chennai wicket for the second test produced exciting cricket where the fine players such as Sharma, Ashwin and Kohli performed well. A poor wicket removes the differentiation between the good and the excellent — be it a flat road on which everyone can score or a complete minefield on which even Bradman would look ordinary.
The Chennai wicket was not that — an awful lot of sour grapes from English commentariat. I’ve seen a lot of cricket in England over the years — some of the pitches produced at say Headingly back in the day were as favourable to the home side as this wicket.

 

[Pakhs]

You cannot prepare a pitch that supports spin from day 1 in Chennai without underpreparing it. A pitch that supports spin from day 1 was needed to eliminate the toss advantage and keep it fair for both teams, unlike a pitch that starts as a road and becomes a minefield later or a green seamer that becomes a road on day 2.

You cant eliminate the toss advantage by having under prepared pitch. The toss advantage has been there since test cricket started. In the subcontinent the pitches if prepared well will always start of solid and then start to break up later thats just how its unless you temper with the pitch.

 

[Pakhs]

Very interesting thread.
The Chennai wicket for the second test produced exciting cricket where the fine players such as Sharma, Ashwin and Kohli performed well. A poor wicket removes the differentiation between the good and the excellent — be it a flat road on which everyone can score or a complete minefield on which even Bradman would look ordinary.
The Chennai wicket was not that — an awful lot of sour grapes from English commentariat. I’ve seen a lot of cricket in England over the years — some of the pitches produced at say Headingly back in the day were as favourable to the home side as this wicket.

Produced exciting cricket? Game was over in two days.

 

[silentkiller187]

Australian tracks are not green seamers. They are hard with not much lateral movement. Wrist-spinners like bouncy track like quick bowlers.

Maybe not green tops but most SENA teams favour pace and will always try and promote seam friendly wickets because that's where they are given an advantage. Similarly we are starting to see in places like SL BAN spin friendly wickets are being created from day 1, for example SL vs england were opening the bowling with spin in a test match. In my opinion neither pitch should be criticised.

 

[street cricketer]

You cant eliminate the toss advantage by having under prepared pitch. The toss advantage has been there since test cricket started. In the subcontinent the pitches if prepared well will always start of solid and then start to break up later thats just how its unless you temper with the pitch.

yes, but the pitches got relaid in 2013 in Chennai and since then, even in the domestic matches, the Tamil Nadu Ranji team players have been complaining of the newly relaid square producing wickets that are too flat and slow and highly favouring the team winning the toss and batting first. Same thing happened in 2016, England should have never lost the test as the wicket was too flat (the one when England scored 400 and India scored 700 in reply) but they were mentally drained at the end of a long and tiring series.

Ditto with the first test. India did not lose that test due to the pitch, they should have drawn it with some conservative batting but they lost it due to their reckless batting on the 3rd day. But once they lost the toss, a victory immediately went out of the table for them as the wicket was an absolute road and supported neither the quicks nor the spinners for the first two days. So a "well prepared" wicket in the Chennai context would just be an absolute road that refuses to assist the bowlers for the first half of the match, thereby absolutely shafting the team that loses the toss and has to bowl first, which is why a rank turner was made so that even if a team loses the toss, the pitch will have plenty of help from day 1 as it's a rank turner.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

I think it formally ended on day 4, though I acknowledge the result was a foregone conclusion by day 2.
However anything is better than watching the tedium of a run fest on a completely flat wicket.
India did score about 600 runs on that wicket with two centuries — it can’t have been that bad

 

[Saj]

Personally I would like the away team to be given the choice regarding batting first or bowling first.

Let the home side make the pitches how they want, but let the away side have the toss.

 

[Pakhs]

yes, but the pitches got relaid in 2013 in Chennai and since then, even in the domestic matches, the Tamil Nadu Ranji team players have been complaining of the newly relaid square producing wickets that are too flat and slow and highly favouring the team winning the toss and batting first. Same thing happened in 2016, England should have never lost the test as the wicket was too flat (the one when England scored 400 and India scored 700 in reply) but they were mentally drained at the end of a long and tiring series.

Ditto with the first test. India did not lose that test due to the pitch, they should have drawn it with some conservative batting but they lost it due to their reckless batting on the 3rd day. But once they lost the toss, a victory immediately went out of the table for them as the wicket was an absolute road and supported neither the quicks nor the spinners for the first two days. So a "well prepared" wicket in the Chennai context would just be an absolute road that refuses to assist the bowlers for the first half of the match, thereby absolutely shafting the team that loses the toss and has to bowl first, which is why a rank turner was made so that even if a team loses the toss, the pitch will have plenty of help from day 1 as it's a rank turner.

Rank turner is no answer I understand the desire and temptation for Indian captain to ask for rank turners but it reduces the quality of matches.

 

[Robert]

Maybe not green tops but most SENA teams favour pace and will always try and promote seam friendly wickets because that's where they are given an advantage. Similarly we are starting to see in places like SL BAN spin friendly wickets are being created from day 1, for example SL vs england were opening the bowling with spin in a test match. In my opinion neither pitch should be criticised.

Seaming pitches don’t favour real pace bowling as they are soft and take speed off the ball.

NZ tracks are not really seamers these days. Their climate has changed from Hadlee’s day.

Australian tracks don’t favour seam, they are for fast bowlers.

SA tracks are bouncy but there is also orthodox swing sometimes.

In England - Lords, Trent Bridge, Cardiff and Edgbaston are seamers, Headingley is usually full of runs these days, Oval and Old Trafford are quickish early on then start to break up, Southampton is flat and crusty. Swing depends on damp air rising.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Ashwin's 100 on day 3 should have laid rest to the argument that the pitch was lethal. England (both batsmen and bowlers) did the mistake of overestimating the role of the pitch and the likes of Vaughan and some fans did not help their cause.

Also, If I were Root, I'd ask my batsmen to learn how to sweep properly before playing that shot again.

 

[BreadPakoda]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The lords pitch against india just after i’d finished was greener than a toddlers bogey. It backfired horribly as we bowled first, got pumped and India won but it was still an emerald strip made to order. I think I’m still considered a maverick so they haven’t asked me back ���� <a href="https://t.co/3XcoSTcnBx">https://t.co/3XcoSTcnBx</a></p>— Graeme Swann (@Swannyg66) <a href="https://twitter.com/Swannyg66/status/1360937644272844800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ps. I did not know what toddlers bogey means, so I googled it. Don't do that.

 

[street cricketer]

Rank turner is no answer I understand the desire and temptation for Indian captain to ask for rank turners but it reduces the quality of matches.

Well that's your subjective opinion and you're entitled to believe in your theory. Does not necessarily make it true though.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Personally I would like the away team to be given the choice regarding batting first or bowling first.

Let the home side make the pitches how they want, but let the away side have the toss.

Yeah will make cricket interesting.

 

[Pakhs]

Well that's your subjective opinion and you're entitled to believe in your theory. Does not necessarily make it true though.

Yes it my opinion but you can not deny that it reduces the quality of cricket as it gives one set of bowlers complete advantage which is spinners on all 5 days.

 

[street cricketer]

Yes it my opinion but you can not deny that it reduces the quality of cricket as it gives one set of bowlers complete advantage which is spinners on all 5 days.

It is not necessary for a wicket to be equally conducive to both spin bowling and pace bowling all the time. It is completely okay to have a green top which barely aids the spinners and also a rank turner which barely aids the pacers. If anything, a rank turner has more help for the pacers due to the abrasive nature of the wicket resulting in reverse swing. A green top does nothing to help the spinners because the grass holds the surface together and prevents it from breaking up as opposed to a surface without grass cover.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Yes it my opinion but you can not deny that it reduces the quality of cricket as it gives one set of bowlers complete advantage which is spinners on all 5 days.

Your take on perth, joberg and wellington style pitches?

Spinners (especially finger spinners) hardly get assistance.

Fair or unfair pitches... Why?

 

[Robert]

It is not necessary for a wicket to be equally conducive to both spin bowling and pace bowling all the time. It is completely okay to have a green top which barely aids the spinners and also a rank turner which barely aids the pacers. If anything, a rank turner has more help for the pacers due to the abrasive nature of the wicket resulting in reverse swing. A green top does nothing to help the spinners because the grass holds the surface together and prevents it from breaking up as opposed to a surface without grass cover.

Not the case- the first Chennai wicket helped with reverse because it was quite hard. The second did not as the ball was going through the top, it was dry but soft so there was nothing for the ball to become damaged on.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Easy solution , the home advantage can be negate by removing the toss altogether and allowing the Foreign team to make a choice regarding whether to bat or bowl after seeing the pitch.

This will put fear in home team hearts as the poorly curated pitch can actually backfire for them as well hence they will still try to get home advantage but in limits.

 

[Robert]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The lords pitch against india just after i’d finished was greener than a toddlers bogey. It backfired horribly as we bowled first, got pumped and India won but it was still an emerald strip made to order. I think I’m still considered a maverick so they haven’t asked me back ���� <a href="https://t.co/3XcoSTcnBx">https://t.co/3XcoSTcnBx</a></p>— Graeme Swann (@Swannyg66) <a href="https://twitter.com/Swannyg66/status/1360937644272844800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

.

The Lord’s groundsman didn’t cut the grass on the eve of the match. So India batted first on a greentop.

It was a very hot week, so by day two the grass had died, and the wicket went totally flat. England should have escaped with a draw but Ishant bowled brilliantly on the last day.

 

[Pakhs]

It is not necessary for a wicket to be equally conducive to both spin bowling and pace bowling all the time. It is completely okay to have a green top which barely aids the spinners and also a rank turner which barely aids the pacers. If anything, a rank turner has more help for the pacers due to the abrasive nature of the wicket resulting in reverse swing. A green top does nothing to help the spinners because the grass holds the surface together and prevents it from breaking up as opposed to a surface without grass cover.

You are competently wrong, Green pitches will aid spinners on day 4 and 5 where the advantage for spinners are so great on rank turners that you don't need anything else.

 

[street cricketer]

You are competently wrong, Green pitches will aid spinners on day 4 and 5

In Narnia?

 

[Pakhs]

Your take on perth, joberg and wellington style pitches?

Spinners (especially finger spinners) hardly get assistance.

Fair or unfair pitches... Why?

They start helping spinners from day 4 and 5. Wellington maybe an exception I dont like that wicket for same reason.

 

[Pakhs]

In Narnia?

Pitches dont stay green for 5 days its against nature.

 

[street cricketer]

Pitches dont stay green for 5 days its against nature.

Sure, but a greentop that's under the sun will not suddenly start producing turn after 3 days, it will just become a road as the live grass dies out under the sun. Grass cover, whether live or dead, will help the pitch hold together and stop it from breaking down in the same way as a bald wicket does, which is why wickets in NZ transform from a green top to a road in 1-2 days.

 

[Gilly]

It's ok to have a green top that seams and swings from the first ball to the last and makes a batsman's life a misery.

But it's not ok to prepare a pitch that has a lot of cracks and takes spin from ball of the match?

Discuss.

Who are these people that say ok to have a green top that seams and swings from the first ball to the last
But it's not ok to prepare a pitch that has a lot of cracks and takes spin from ball of the match.

Is this a straw man argument or did someone actually say this?.

 

[Pakhs]

Sure, but a greentop that's under the sun will not suddenly start producing turn after 3 days, it will just become a road as the live grass dies out under the sun. Grass cover, whether live or dead, will help the pitch hold together and stop it from breaking down in the same way as a bald wicket does, which is why wickets in NZ transform from a green top to a road in 1-2 days.

I dont like wellington pitch as any old seamer like de grandhomme bowl like Mcgrath same as rank turners seen in chennai. But most other green tops do help spin from day 4 onwards.

 

[street cricketer]

I dont like wellington pitch as any old seamer like de grandhomme bowl like Mcgrath same as rank turners seen in chennai. But most other green tops do help spin from day 4 onwards.

I'll give you a small exercise, let's see if you can guess the answer correctly.

In the last ten years, can you guess

1. Which country has produced the most green wickets in the world? and

2. Which country has been the least helpful to spinners?

 

[Robert]

Double standards or not, India is going to roll out these pitches and other teams better learn to play on them. No point holding out hope for the dreaded poor pitch rating from ICC. It is not going to change the results in the record books. To their credit, the English team did not complain once about the pitch. It is just the armchair experts and ex-players who were never flash in the subcontinent, who see it fit to get some attention on themselves.

Of course. England won on the Gower and Cook tour because they had several batters who could get big hundreds on spinning tracks. Root’s side has only one such batter, and he won’t score big in every game.

 

[Robert]

In Narnia?

Yes because Aslan always turns up at the end and he can spin it on glass!

 

[Pakhs]

I'll give you a small exercise, let's see if you can guess the answer correctly.

In the last ten years, can you guess

1. Which country has produced the most green wickets in the world? and

2. Which country has been the least helpful to spinners?

This is subjective because the definition of green wickets will have to be defined first but for me NZ are the worst offenders when it comes to pure green wickets. England do not produce as many and spinner do come int play from Day 4 and 5.

The country that is least helpful for spinners is also NZ that's obvious followed by SA.

On the other hand SL and India have produced the most rank turners in recent times.

 

[street cricketer]

This is subjective because the definition of green wickets will have to be defined first but for me NZ are the worst offenders when it comes to pure green wickets. England do not produce as many and spinner do come int play from Day 4 and 5.

The country that is least helpful for spinners is also NZ that's obvious followed by SA.

On the other hand SL and India have produced the most rank turners in recent times.

You've answered yourself, there you have it.

 

[Pakhs]

You've answered yourself, there you have it.

So I never said other teams do no use home advantage, I just called the Chennai pitch rank turner and most Indian fans started denying it as if it may undermine India's win.

I also have a dis likeness of the pitch that start to explode on first day as this heightens spin advantage way too much.

 

[street cricketer]

So I never said other teams do no use home advantage, I just called the Chennai pitch rank turner and most Indian fans started denying it as if it may undermine India's win.

I also have a dis likeness of the pitch that start to explode on first day as this heightens spin advantage way too much.

It was always a rank turner, that much was obvious from the first over.

As for the second point, that's your personal dislike.

 

[OMB]

ok, for sake of Vaughan..
lets nominate Switzerland (designated neutral party) and they make every pitch same way.. to aid seamers on day 1 and day 2. On Day 3, it must aid spinners and seamers and day 4 & 5 it should only be spin-friendly.

and oh, the pitch test report shall not be done by ex cricketers, lets do a third party testing.

and oh, the scorers and commentrators should also be neutral and so would be the biased DJ's who cheerlead the home teams more.

There. That should make it a level playing ground for all countries. truly neutral and unisex

 

[Pakhs]

It was always a rank turner, that much was obvious from the first over.

As for the second point, that's your personal dislike.

Yes its my personal dis-likeness to give advantage to only one set of bowlers so much. Even bowlers like Bumrah and Ishant utility were limited on that pitch and to large extent not required.

Some people would have you believe Kholi is promoting fast bowling culture and on the other hand he is asking for these pitches openly and no attempt to hide unlike most Indian fans here.

 

[street cricketer]

Yes its my personal dis-likeness to give advantage to only one set of bowlers so much. Even bowlers like Bumrah and Ishant utility were limited on that pitch and to large extent not required.

Some people would have you believe Kholi is promoting fast bowling culture and on the other hand he is asking for these pitches openly and no attempt to hide unlike most Indian fans here.

See the point where we both disagree is this:

For you, a poor pitch is one where one discipline of bowling gets a lot of help and another very little.

For me, a poor pitch is something where you lose the chance to win the match when you lose the toss.

A "well prepared" wicket is nothing but a road in the Chepauk context, where you lose the chance to win the game when you lose the toss and have to bowl on a road. I know about how Chennai wickets behave and wanted a turner from test 1. Have absolutely zero qualms with Kohli wanting a turner.

 

[Pakhs]

See the point where we both disagree is this:

For you, a poor pitch is one where one discipline of bowling gets a lot of help and another very little.

For me, a poor pitch is something where you lose the chance to win the match when you lose the toss.

A "well prepared" wicket is nothing but a road in the Chepauk context, where you lose the chance to win the game when you lose the toss and have to bowl on a road. I know about how Chennai wickets behave and wanted a turner from test 1. Have absolutely zero qualms with Kohli wanting a turner.

I disagree bowlers like Ashwin would still be able to put pressure on the opposition like he did in the first game. But newbies are suppose to struggle initially like they did on a better wicket but the last chennai wicket anyone proper bowler can take wicket even an all rounder like moean got 8.

 

[street cricketer]

I disagree bowlers like Ashwin would still be able to put pressure on the opposition like he did in the first game. But newbies are suppose to struggle initially like they did on a better wicket but the last chennai wicket anyone proper bowler can take wicket even an all rounder like moean got 8.

Mate you have no idea how much of a road that wicket was. It's bad enough if the wicket is a road, but the ball actually slowed down after pitching. So quicks were rendered useless and any little turn that was available was very slow.

Excellent bowlers like Ashwin, Bumrah and Ishant restricted run flow but they couldn't pick wickets as the wicket was so unhelpful to the bowlers until it broke up.

 

[Pakhs]

Mate you have no idea how much of a road that wicket was. It's bad enough if the wicket is a road, but the ball actually slowed down after pitching. So quicks were rendered useless and any little turn that was available was very slow.

Excellent bowlers like Ashwin, Bumrah and Ishant restricted run flow but they couldn't pick wickets as the wicket was so unhelpful to the bowlers until it broke up.

England also played well and and not gave their wickets easily perhaps? It was not a road at all England poor slow bowlers were able to bowl India out even in the first innings.

 

[street cricketer]

England also played well and and not gave their wickets easily perhaps? It was not a road at all England poor slow bowlers were able to bowl India out even in the first innings.

More like the Indian batsmen threw their wickets away to full tosses and long hops.

 

[Pakhs]

More like the Indian batsmen threw their wickets away to full tosses and long hops.

Indian spinners are poor for sure.. So that was not a road but obviously flatter than second Chennai pitch. team like India should not be getting beaten on that first wicket by England.