The double-standards regarding pitches?

[street cricketer]

Indian spinners are poor for sure.. So that was not a road but obviously flatter than second Chennai pitch. team like India should not be getting beaten on that first wicket by England.

That was an out and out road for the first half of the match. You have no idea about what you're talking. The fact that India lost on a fecking road makes their first test defeat pretty embarrassing.

 

[Pakhs]

That was an out and out road for the first half of the match. You have no idea about what you're talking. The fact that India lost on a fecking road makes their first test defeat pretty embarrassing.

Sorry I meant England spinners are poor for sure.. and they were able to take wicket on the pitch so it cant be classed as a road. India lost quit easily and match was never likely to end as a draw.

 

[street cricketer]

Sorry I meant England spinners are poor for sure.. and they were able to take wicket on the pitch so it cant be classed as a road. India lost quit easily and match was never likely to end as a draw.

The wicket was a road for the first two days is what I said. After the 2nd session on 3rd day, it started breaking up and disintegrating.

 

[Pakhs]

The wicket was a road for the first two days is what I said. After the 2nd session on 3rd day, it started breaking up and disintegrating.

That's how pitches in subcontinent start flatter on first few days where fast bowlers have some work to do and then spinners take over. Some spinners can even take wickets on the first day like Kumble.

 

[street cricketer]

That's how pitches in subcontinent start flatter on first few days where fast bowlers have some work to do and then spinners take over. Some spinners can even take wickets on the first day like Kumble.

I'm from Chennai, I follow the domestic Ranji matches that TN play at the Chepauk and it's reasonable to assume I know more about the wicket having seen the wicket change its character from 8 years back to now after the square got relaid in the ground. Think we have nothing to discuss here.

 

[Pakhs]

I'm from Chennai, I follow the domestic Ranji matches that TN play at the Chepauk and it's reasonable to assume I know more about the wicket having seen the wicket change its character from 8 years back to now after the square got relaid in the ground. Think we have nothing to discuss here.

No we dont I dont agree with this level of rank turner.. you can argue about wicket being too flat etc but this level of turner is too extreme.

 

[street cricketer]

No we dont I dont agree with this level of rank turner.. you can argue about wicket being too flat etc but this level of turner is too extreme.

Like I said, everyone's entitled to an opinion.

 

[MenInG]

Taking a subtle dig at the pitches in India amidst the ongoing England tour, former cricketer Michael Vaughan shared an image of a stadium in Pakistan thereby reigniting the whole debacle over the Chepauk surface. Sharing the image on Twitter, Vaughan remarked that the scenic ground looked 'stunning' and added 'looks a lovely prepared pitch as well'. Vaughan, who has been at the forefront of the criticism against the Chepauk pitch, was shut down by England skipper Joe Root himself, who pointed out at that the pitch had no part to play in their defeat in the second Test.

Soon after Vaughan's tweet on Saturday evening, netizens rushed to counter the former England cricketer. Several users also reminded the former batsman of the stark green pitch at Lord's and highlighted that he was crying foul only after the defeat. Here's how netizens reacted:

With India dominating the second Test against England, several veterans of the game have jumped to blame the pitch for England's dismal performance with the bat at the Chepauk. Former Australia cricketer Mark Waugh criticized the pitch at Chepauk, terming it 'unacceptable' at Test level. The junior Waugh highlighted that it was not acceptable to have the ball going through the top of the surface on day 1 from the main part of the pitch.

On the other hand, spin maestro Shane Warne schooled Michael Vaughan as the latter blamed the pitch for India grabbing the advantage in the ongoing Test. Warne highlighted that the pitch has been the same since day 1 but England bowlers have failed to bowl brilliantly whereas Indian batsmen have been on top of their game. The duo engaged in a war of words on Twitter as they fought over the part of the pitch in the game so far.

Meanwhile, after the defeat in the second Test, England skipper Joe Root asserted that the pitch and the toss had no part to play in their defeat. The English skipper added that they had already anticipated the turning behaviour of the pitch and added that winning the toss wouldn't have guaranteed a win either. "The fact is that India have shown that you can score runs on it and have found a way of managing a very tricky surface so we've got to learn from that, add it to our own games and come back better for it," he said.

https://m.republicworld.com/sports-...-india-by-sharing-pakistan-stadium-image.html

 

[Saj]

A lot of former England players not happy with the Ahmedabad pitch.

Would they still be unhappy if England had won this match?

 

[CanadianG00se]

A lot of former England players not happy with the Ahmedabad pitch.

Would they still be unhappy if England had won this match?

I remember when India were folding inside three days in England on green pitch, same English pundits were mocking team India for their ineptness, but here they are singing different tune.

 

[IMMY69]

I remember when India were folding inside three days in England on green pitch, same English pundits were mocking team India for their ineptness, but here they are singing different tune.

Were part time Bowlers looking like fred trueman or McGrath?

 

[cricketjoshila]

A lot of former England players not happy with the Ahmedabad pitch.

Would they still be unhappy if England had won this match?

They are unhappy because England is out of the WTC. They are frustrated because ECB cant arm twist BCCI.

 

[pillionrider]

Swann summed it up post match when he said - while this is a proper turning pitch, complaining about it is absolute rubbish. Instead the English batsmen should try to improve their game like Kohli did after England prepared pitches suiting Anderson that troubled him on his first tour.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Swann summed it up post match when he said - while this is a proper turning pitch, complaining about it is absolute rubbish. Instead the English batsmen should try to improve their game like Kohli did after England prepared pitches suiting Anderson that troubled him on his first tour.

English media is frustrated because Indians are not giving a damn about what they have to say.

 

[Saj]

Also worth mentioning that England won the toss here........batted first......and were bundled out for 112.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

The pitch was fine. And it was the same for both sides, of whom one side was clearly superior.

England lost the match in their heads as opposed to on the pitch. They let last test match collapse, the pitch, the umpiring decisions, lockdowns, idiotic rotations and much more get inside their brains.

All through the last 2 test matches, India have been the far superior team and have made the most of the pitch with superior bowling.

 

[IMMY69]

Also worth mentioning that England won the toss here........batted first......and were bundled out for 112.

Good point.
It should also be pointed out that India batted on the first day itself and were bowled out on the second day for 150 with Root (whose bowling average is in the 40's) took 5 wickets for 8 runs

 

[Saj]

Good point.
It should also be pointed out that India batted on the first day itself and were bowled out on the second day for 150 with Root (whose bowling average is in the 40's) took 5 wickets for 8 runs

And it should also be pointed out that England lost by 10 wickets largely because their batting was rubbish.

England have over the years prepared green tops particularly for Asian teams (Headingley was notorious for that). So why can't other teams do that too.

 

[sam_ahm]

It was a pretty poor pitch and made to look worse by poor batting by both teams. I don't know what to say but ot was quite boring to watch the match today, almost every ball it looked like a wicket will fall.

 

[IMMY69]

And it should also be pointed out that England lost by 10 wickets largely because their batting was rubbish.

England have over the years prepared green tops particularly for Asian teams (Headingley was notorious for that). So why can't other teams do that too.

and yet Pakistan have only lost two one series in the last decade.

Team chasing 49 to win has zero scoreboard pressure...

Green seamers tend to flatten out and most sides winning the toss in England (as well as in New Zealand) do what anyone would do on a flat wicket and that is to bat first.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Chennai 2nd test, Pitch is bad and India would have lost if they had batted second.

Ahmedabad test Englsnd batted first,still pitch is bad.

Pitch is good, if India loses, else not.

 

[street cricketer]

and yet Pakistan have only lost two one series in the last decade.

Team chasing 49 to win has zero scoreboard pressure...

Green seamers tend to flatten out and most sides winning the toss in England (as well as in New Zealand) do what anyone would do on a flat wicket and that is to bat first.

Wrong on New Zealand.

In the last 5 years in NZ, 23 tests have happened and in 20 of those matches, the team that had won the toss bowled first.

 

[IMMY69]

Wrong on New Zealand.

In the last 5 years in NZ, 23 tests have happened and in 20 of those matches, the team that had won the toss bowled first.

ok and how many of those teams who bowled first actually won the game?
How many times did the Kiwis win the toss and decided to bowl second?

 

[street cricketer]

ok and how many of those teams who bowled first actually won the game?

11 matches won, 6 matches lost.

How many times did the Kiwis win the toss and decided to bowl second?

The Kiwis have won the toss 12 times and have chosen to bowl first in all of those 12 tests in the last five years.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...span;team=5;template=results;toss=1;type=team

 

[Amjid Javed]

Most ex england players are upset because the pitch conditions didnt allow for an even contest between bat and ball.

The fact puffs of dust were coming out of the pitch on day 2 almost every other ball shows how rubbish this pitch was.

 

[IMMY69]

11 matches won, 6 matches lost.



The Kiwis have won the toss 12 times and have chosen to bowl first in all of those 12 tests in the last five years.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...span;team=5;template=results;toss=1;type=team

Ok so then my next question.
How many part timers have taken a five for in the games won bowling first?

 

[LeedsGreen]

Ok so then my next question.
How many part timers have taken a five for in the games won bowling first?

on day 2....

 

[cricketjoshila]

Most ex england players are upset because the pitch conditions didnt allow for an even contest between bat and ball.

The fact puffs of dust were coming out of the pitch on day 2 almost every other ball shows how rubbish this pitch was.

Puffs of dust were coming out? Really? Can you post a few videos?

 

[IMMY69]

on day 2....

Yep on day two!!!

This would mean that the Indian batting line up went from a winning lineup in the second test to not being able to hold a bat in this match or that the wicket was so bad that it allowed Root to pick up 5 for 8...

Personally I don't think the Indian batsmen as so bad just like I don't believe Axar and Ashwin are the bowling demons sent to cause havoc to all batsmen around the world...

I don't understand this need for some Indians to back everything their country, sport body, sportsmen do.
It's a blight on ones character.

The pitch was poor and underprepared...
Why is that so hard to accept?

 

[LeedsGreen]

Yep on day two!!!

This would mean that the Indian batting line up went from a winning lineup in the second test to not being able to hold a bat in this match or that the wicket was so bad that it allowed Root to pick up 5 for 8...

Personally I don't think the Indian batsmen as so bad just like I don't believe Axar and Ashwin are the bowling demons sent to cause havoc to all batsmen around the world...

I don't understand this need for some Indians to back everything their country, sport body, sportsmen do.
It's a blight on ones character.

The pitch was poor and underprepared...
Why is that so hard to accept?

agreed in all likelihood india would have won anyway.... the pitch just added needless controversy and The BCCI should be making sure the next games pitch is better... its simple

 

[street cricketer]

Ok so then my next question.
How many part timers have taken a five for in the games won bowling first?

Are you going to keep expecting me to dig up every single record you ask for using every cricinfo filter available mate?

Nevermind that there's no filter that differentiates a full time bowler and a part time bowler. You said that most teams who win the toss bat first in England and New Zealand. I disagreed with NZ, they have been designing their wickets to their advantage perhaps more than any other team in the last five years ever since B'Mac took over.

I'm sure you are going to say nothing about that, but that's fine and what I would expect from a Pakistani supporter. I don't expect any soft spot for Indian cricket from a Pakistani cricket fan. But saying teams who win the toss mostly bat first in New Zealand is a gross ignorance about New Zealand pitches or New Zealand cricket in general.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Puffs of dust were coming out? Really? Can you post a few videos?

How about you go watch the highlights on tv rather than watching it on the radio. Amyonr who watched game know what am talking about.

 

[Markhor]

Puffs of dust were coming out? Really? Can you post a few videos?

Watch the entire match.

It won't take long - shortest Test since 1935.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Were part time Bowlers looking like fred trueman or McGrath?

Trundler like Sam Curran was running through Indian batting lineup with his 70mph thunderbolts. If it was his skills then I’m sure he would have been first to be on playing XI on English lineup in India. You’re no different then others who think England pitches are fair but Indian pitches aren’t. I maintain my stand that both countries are equally guilty of it. England should be last to complain about pitches when they have been dishing green mamba to India for so long, and I have never seen Kohli or Indian team complain about it. England lost like it or not, won’t change anything. They got their a** handed to them!!

I predicted before the series that SL series victory is going to give false impression about England chances.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Any home team is allowed to curate whatever pitches they want, unless ICC implements a global standard for all pitches. Since they have no interest in that, and would rather keep their pockets and mouths full of cash, complaining about the pitches is a waste of time.

England got decimated, and they will receive another hammering in the 4th test as well.

India just needs to bat first, put together about 250-300, and watch England collapse like a house of cards.

Hopefully we see India in the WTC Final, where they can stand a very good chance of winning against New Zealand.

 

[cricketjoshila]

How about you go watch the highlights on tv rather than watching it on the radio. Amyonr who watched game know what am talking about.

I watched the game in its entirety. Hence asking you to post videos of puffs of dust every ball.

 

[Amjid Javed]

With srinath as match referee i doubt hes going to rate the pitch as poor. If he does hes likely to be deported out of the country.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I watched the game in its entirety. Hence asking you to post videos of puffs of dust every ball.

Go read my post again clearly, as you cant comprehend basic english.

Also you telling me the pitch was decent quality was it?

 

[Markhor]

How about you go watch the highlights on tv rather than watching it on the radio. Amyonr who watched game know what am talking about.

Much like his propagandist commentators he wouldn't hold an objective opinion if it smacked him across the face.

I've a great respect for India cricket but some people just cannot call a spade a spade because they see everything through a nationalistic lens. Criticising poor batting techniques and the pitch is not mutually exclusive.

Let's review the facts. Shortest Test since 1935, a part timer taking a 5-fer, a winning total of 145, and even the likes of Yuvraj Singh, Bhaji and Ajit Agarkar are saying it wasn't a Day 2 pitch.

CricViz data showed the pitch produced more turn today than typical even of Day 2 Indian pitches. Home advantage is part of Test cricket but this was taken to extreme.

 

[Local.Dada]

With srinath as match referee i doubt hes going to rate the pitch as poor. If he does hes likely to be deported out of the country.

What about the concept of Pink ball as poor option? Batsmen were not able to pick straightish deliveries?

Just FYI, the Adelaide pink ball test was over in 2.5 days as well.

I am sure there were no puff of dusts there visible, just hazy screen with tears of joy watching Hazelwood run through Indians generating crazy moment.

 

[Buffet]

Puffs of dust were coming out? Really? Can you post a few videos?

Puffs of dust were coming out pretty regularly. I caught some action and saying that base on what I saw.

 

[IMMY69]

Are you going to keep expecting me to dig up every single record you ask for using every cricinfo filter available mate?

Nevermind that there's no filter that differentiates a full time bowler and a part time bowler. You said that most teams who win the toss bat first in England and New Zealand. I disagreed with NZ, they have been designing their wickets to their advantage perhaps more than any other team in the last five years ever since B'Mac took over.

I'm sure you are going to say nothing about that, but that's fine and what I would expect from a Pakistani supporter. I don't expect any soft spot for Indian cricket from a Pakistani cricket fan. But saying teams who win the toss mostly bat first in New Zealand is a gross ignorance about New Zealand pitches or New Zealand cricket in general.

Sorry I think I wasn't clear.
You're absolutely right regarding New Zealand, that was a poor example for batting first..
However, the clear difference (and this includes test matches around the world at other venues) is that test matches tend to last longer then two days and part timers aren't suddenly taking five wickets on the second day of the match.

 

[Amjid Javed]

What about the concept of Pink ball as poor option? Batsmen were not able to pick straightish deliveries?

Just FYI, the Adelaide pink ball test was over in 2.5 days as well.

I am sure there were no puff of dusts there visible, just hazy screen with tears of joy watching Hazelwood run through Indians generating crazy moment.

The Adelaide pitch was perfectly fine both teams batted decently in 1st inns with no issues, the game was evenly balanced. Indias batting in 2nd inns of that game was just poor.

How many batsmen in this game looked like they could cope in these conditions? Rohit? Crawley in 1st inns?

Typical indian fan response lets bring up other test matches else where to justify such a pathetic pitch produced here.

Yes the pink ball moved around quicker but thats always been in case the extra lacquer on ball makes it skid and move more. Doesnt excuse fast this test was played on what was pretty much a day 5 surface on day 1.

No real skill just a lottery and the worst test match ive seen, and ive been watching cricket since 1987.

 

[AAli98]

That’s one thing you can accuse pak of is doctoring pitches if anything they produce tracks that suits visitors. In the 90s they produced pitches that gave Zimbabwe a series victory.

Even the recent SA series SA were within a sniff of chasing 370 & were 230/3

 

[Artaxerxes]

English curators don't doctor pitches.The Headingly pitch used to have a lot of zip but over the years it has flattened out and now offers good contest between bat and ball.Lord's pitch slopes from north to south and helps seam and swing bowling(from pavilion end) but batsman still can make big scores.Edgbastin is a very good pitch.It helps spin bowlers with turn and bounce.The Oval pitch is good for spin bowling,it also helps tall fast bowlers since it provides tennis ball bounce.Trent Bridge is very flat.Old Traffor pitch is good for spin bowling.Bowlers can get reverse swing.

 

[street cricketer]

Sorry I think I wasn't clear.
You're absolutely right regarding New Zealand, that was a poor example for batting first..
However, the clear difference (and this includes test matches around the world at other venues) is that test matches tend to last longer then two days and part timers aren't suddenly taking five wickets on the second day of the match.

I made my views on the pitch clear in the match thread itself, any wicket that makes Joe Root turn the ball like Ashwin does is not a good wicket. I thought it was a poor game that made for bad viewing from a test cricket pov.

Root's post match comments have been interesting. He feels this was more of a 250 par wicket but the extra lacquer layer or two on the pink ball meant that the ball skidded on to the batsman faster than they expected and the batsmen weren't clever enough to adapt to the different ball. The pink SG ball has gripped and turned big every time it landed on the seam and skidded on to the stumps fast whenever it landed on the non-seam part.

On hindsight, I feel this was more of a 3 day 200-250 par wicket but the batsmen taken aback by the pink SG ball skidding on faster than they expected meant that they were late on the ball which is probably why a lot of them got bowled and lbw and looked foolish missing the straight balls. I think purely on the pitch quality, the last wicket was worse than this wicket where the top was exploding far more in Chennai than this one.

But if you saw the last match, the normal red SG ball got old pretty quickly and once it got worn out, it became a bit easier to bat which is how Ashwin was able to make a century on the 3rd day. The extra two layers of lacquer has meant that the ball has remained new, bounced more and seam not getting worn out quickly resulted in the ball turning big + skidding on fast = perfect conditions for disaster with the bat. I get the feeling if the pink SG ball had been used for the last match, it would have ended in two days and if the normal SG red ball had been used for this match, this match could have gone till the third or even the morning of the fourth day like the last test.

Bottom line from this match is that for the pink ball matches in India, even a normal turner would result in the game finishing inside two days due to the added lethality of the pink SG ball and hence to have a good match, either 400 par wickets should be created or seaming wickets with a thin layer of grass.

 

[ssuhaide]

Puffs of dust were coming out pretty regularly. I caught some action and saying that base on what I saw.

I pretty much watched the entire match. Watch any slow motion zoomed in replay and you will see puffs of dust.

I have no issue with a pitch behaving day 4 / day 5 but it was pretty much straight away.

At least with green tops they do flatten out and any team with a good seam attack will take advantage.

 

[Buffet]

Sorry I think I wasn't clear.
You're absolutely right regarding New Zealand, that was a poor example for batting first..
However, the clear difference (and this includes test matches around the world at other venues) is that test matches tend to last longer then two days and part timers aren't suddenly taking five wickets on the second day of the match.

Most teams play with 3-4 pacers and one spinner.

If Pitch is turning a lot - part-timer spin bowler is likely to bowl. They bowl due to a lack of options.

If the pitch is assisting pacers, part-timer pacers will most likely not bowl. You can rotate 3 pacers to covers lots of overs before part-timers may be needed.

It is not as simple as part-timers picking wickets making pitch poor. You will always find that part-time spinners have 1-2 really ridiculous spells. It is less likely with part timers pacers. The opportunity to bowl for both sets is vastly different when pitch is helping both sets.

 

[IMMY69]

Most teams play with 3-4 pacers and one spinner.

If Pitch is turning a lot - part-timer spin bowler is likely to bowl. They bowl due to a lack of options.

If the pitch is assisting pacers, part-timer pacers will most likely not bowl. You can rotate 3 pacers to covers lots of overs before part-timers may be needed.

It is not as simple as part-timers picking wickets making pitch poor. You will always find that part-time spinners have 1-2 really ridiculous spells. It is less likely with part timers pacers. The opportunity to bowl for both sets is vastly different when pitch is helping both sets.

Day two
Home team is batting
They're renouned for being good players of spin
A part timer takes 5 wickets and helps bowl that side out for 150

Now add to this the fact that the team batting first was bowled out for 110 and the same team was bowled out again but for 80 odd and all on the second day...

The above tells you that the pitch is poor but I can see Street Cricketers theory regarding the ball too...
It may have played a part.

However, in my view, the wickets should not turn square from day one.
It's just boring....

Here we can argue that the orange ball assisted the slow bowlers on the dry surface, but in the last match we can equally argue that the team batting first held the advantage.

The end result surely is that nobody wants to see two day test matches and bowlers with inflated figures due to the conditions.
I've argued the same for Anderson, whose an ATG in his own conditions, especially when it's cloudy. However, in the last decade Anderson has done quiet well abroad too including in Asian conditions.

 

[Buffet]

Day two
Home team is batting
They're renouned for being good players of spin
A part timer takes 5 wickets and helps bowl that side out for 150

Now add to this the fact that the team batting first was bowled out for 110 and the same team was bowled out again but for 80 odd and all on the second day...

The above tells you that the pitch is poor but I can see Street Cricketers theory regarding the ball too...
It may have played a part.

However, in my view, the wickets should not turn square from day one.
It's just boring....

Here we can argue that the orange ball assisted the slow bowlers on the dry surface, but in the last match we can equally argue that the team batting first held the advantage.

The end result surely is that nobody wants to see two day test matches and bowlers with inflated figures due to the conditions.
I've argued the same for Anderson, whose an ATG in his own conditions, especially when it's cloudy. However, in the last decade Anderson has done quiet well abroad too including in Asian conditions.

I already said that it was not a good pitch. Pitch was made worse due to the extra layer on the ball and the seam being more pronounced. No one wants to see matches lasting 2 days.

I was only explaining why we see part-time spinners having some ridiculous spells more frequently than part time seamers. I won't use that logic to draw conclusion about pitch when comparing pitches.

I am fine with turn from day one as long as it's not too sharp.

 

[Buffet]

Day two
Home team is batting
They're renouned for being good players of spin
A part timer takes 5 wickets and helps bowl that side out for 150

Now add to this the fact that the team batting first was bowled out for 110 and the same team was bowled out again but for 80 odd and all on the second day...

The above tells you that the pitch is poor but I can see Street Cricketers theory regarding the ball too...
It may have played a part.

However, in my view, the wickets should not turn square from day one.
It's just boring....

Here we can argue that the orange ball assisted the slow bowlers on the dry surface, but in the last match we can equally argue that the team batting first held the advantage.

The end result surely is that nobody wants to see two day test matches and bowlers with inflated figures due to the conditions.
I've argued the same for Anderson, whose an ATG in his own conditions, especially when it's cloudy. However, in the last decade Anderson has done quiet well abroad too including in Asian conditions.

I think Indians crossed 250 even in their second inning. So batting first or second wouldn't have mattered much. I am pretty sure that a good batting unit, who can play spin, would have scored 300+ as well. We simply have lack of skills to play spin now. Even Indians are poor against spin.

 

[Local.Dada]

The Adelaide pitch was perfectly fine both teams batted decently in 1st inns with no issues, the game was evenly balanced. Indias batting in 2nd inns of that game was just poor.

How many batsmen in this game looked like they could cope in these conditions? Rohit? Crawley in 1st inns?

Typical indian fan response lets bring up other test matches else where to justify such a pathetic pitch produced here.

Yes the pink ball moved around quicker but thats always been in case the extra lacquer on ball makes it skid and move more. Doesnt excuse fast this test was played on what was pretty much a day 5 surface on day 1.

No real skill just a lottery and the worst test match ive seen, and ive been watching cricket since 1987.

You are telling me since 1987 you haven’t seen a worse minefield than this pitch, then I am not sure what exactly you have been watching with all due respect.

No one is delusional enough to call this a batting paradise or Perth V 2.0. It was a typical dry SC pitch. However it wasn’t a 1.5 day mine field.

How many people got hurt?

How many balls kept low?

How many balls rose up from a good length hitting a crack and took the edge?

Apart from the imaginary puff of dust you saw there is nothing to authenticate that.

It was at best a 3.5- 4 day pitch which we used to see in SC since time immemorial.

The pink ball just made it worse.

Moral of the story; next time teams play with pink ball, pitch should be relatively flat as the ball will do the rest . That’s the only take away. It’s not as dramatic as you are making it seem.

 

[Local.Dada]

Day two
Home team is batting
They're renouned for being good players of spin
A part timer takes 5 wickets and helps bowl that side out for 150

Now add to this the fact that the team batting first was bowled out for 110 and the same team was bowled out again but for 80 odd and all on the second day...

The above tells you that the pitch is poor but I can see Street Cricketers theory regarding the ball too...
It may have played a part.

However, in my view, the wickets should not turn square from day one.
It's just boring....

Here we can argue that the orange ball assisted the slow bowlers on the dry surface, but in the last match we can equally argue that the team batting first held the advantage.

The end result surely is that nobody wants to see two day test matches and bowlers with inflated figures due to the conditions.
I've argued the same for Anderson, whose an ATG in his own conditions, especially when it's cloudy. However, in the last decade Anderson has done quiet well abroad too including in Asian conditions.

You are drinking the same kool aid as foreign commentators or the cliches by our Asian commentators like Sunny,Wasim,Rameez etc that players from SC are great players of spin.


This current team has gotten owned by mediocre spinners like Moeen Ali etc. or even Zampa,Santner in LOI’s

Our benchmark is we are better than a lot of other teams relatively speaking when it comes to playing spin but doesn’t mean we are great either.

As I said this was a usual mediocre dry pitch that Sc teams used to put out for SENA team. The ball made it worse. That’s about it. I think you are just jumping on the bandwagon than actually watching the match and forming a rational opinion. If you had watched it, your analysis might have been more moderate unless of course you have any other biases playing a part here.

 

[BaankeJi]

Puffs of dust were coming out pretty regularly. I caught some action and saying that base on what I saw.

No puffs of dust were coming out due to ball landing on the pitch.
Also, batsmen were getting out to stupid shots.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Right, here goes...! <br><br>The batting from both teams was awful! The wicket wasn’t horrendous! It’s just that the batting was dreadful! <br><br>21/30 wickets were from straight balls! Nothing dangerous!<br><br>That’s all! See you in india next week and I’m bringing my kit...my golf kit! </p>— Kevin Pietersen (@KP24) <a href="https://twitter.com/KP24/status/1364976218479681537?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Nikhhil98]

The Adelaide pitch was perfectly fine both teams batted decently in 1st inns with no issues, the game was evenly balanced. Indias batting in 2nd inns of that game was just poor.

How many batsmen in this game looked like they could cope in these conditions? Rohit? Crawley in 1st inns?

Typical indian fan response lets bring up other test matches else where to justify such a pathetic pitch produced here.

Yes the pink ball moved around quicker but thats always been in case the extra lacquer on ball makes it skid and move more. Doesnt excuse fast this test was played on what was pretty much a day 5 surface on day 1.

No real skill just a lottery and the worst test match ive seen, and ive been watching cricket since 1987.

Worst test match you have seen ?
I assume that you dont watch your home teams test matches in that case !

 

[CricketCartoons]

Worst test match you have seen ?
I assume that you dont watch your home teams test matches in that case !

He is not talking about the skills (or lack of) of the players, but the quality of the pitch. in my memory don't think pakistan ever played on any such poor pitch.

 

[Usman]

I watched the game in its entirety. Hence asking you to post videos of puffs of dust every ball.

I don't mean to interject in your debate with [MENTION=16]Amjid Javed[/MENTION] but I think you are being untruthful here. I watched the game too and agree that the puff of dust was a ball-by-ball occurrence for the spinners. The same happened in the last match.

Look, I get making use of home advantage, I really do. But there comes a point where you take it so far that there isn't a game. What is the point of a 2 day game? Yes you achieve the end result of an extra '1' added to the win column but you have essentially done that at the expense of an actual game.

The reason we all like this sport is because we get to witness some world class battles between great batsmen and great bowlers. A balance where both have to work hard to win. No doubt conditions will favour the home team, but that doesn't mean it will be a walk in the park. The eventual winner will have to perform exceptionally well to defeat their opponent. That is what you call an enjoyable game.

Contrast that with what we have seen here which is a wicket on almost every ball with even all time greats like Kohli and Root looking like tailenders. I don't buy this excuse "oh but Crawley and Rohit were able to bat" - neither made a particularly big score and both could have been out to spin on numerous occasions before they eventually got out.

Overall, a really disappointing test match.

 

[Chrish]

This isn’t is double standards. This was a poor lottery wicket.

 

[Buffet]

No puffs of dust were coming out due to ball landing on the pitch.
Also, batsmen were getting out to stupid shots.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Right, here goes...! <br><br>The batting from both teams was awful! The wicket wasn’t horrendous! It’s just that the batting was dreadful! <br><br>21/30 wickets were from straight balls! Nothing dangerous!<br><br>That’s all! See you in india next week and I’m bringing my kit...my golf kit! ����</p>— Kevin Pietersen�� (@KP24) <a href="https://twitter.com/KP24/status/1364976218479681537?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Are you saying that puff of dust was not coming? I saw it myself when I watched it. A Puff of dust was coming once the ball was landing.

I also agree with Kevin here. It was inept batting. Just because a puff of dust is coming, the pitch did not become unplayable.

Eng has not scored 200 runs in their last 5 innings when ball turned. So I won't really read much into Eng scores here. Indians also batted poorly and collapsed in the first inning.

 

[Mobashir]

That was some poor cricket on offer from both sides and from the BCCI.

No double standard in anything, that pitch isn't conductive for a good match.

 

[pillionrider]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Right, here goes...! <br><br>The batting from both teams was awful! The wicket wasn’t horrendous! It’s just that the batting was dreadful! <br><br>21/30 wickets were from straight balls! Nothing dangerous!<br><br>That’s all! See you in india next week and I’m bringing my kit...my golf kit! &#55357;&#56698;&#55356;&#57341;</p>— Kevin Pietersen&#55358;&#56719; (@KP24) <a href="https://twitter.com/KP24/status/1364976218479681537?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He should have been here earlier in place of Mark Butcher.

The greatest analyst since Nasser with the added bonus of being blunt and rude as long as it lets him have a giggle. Him and Swann talking over a match is a fantastic experience without the cringe of them being total pleasers unlike some

 

[Robert]

I remember when India were folding inside three days in England on green pitch, same English pundits were mocking team India for their ineptness, but here they are singing different tune.

I don’t. When was there a three day test in England?

 

[pillionrider]

A good Indian pitch is one where England win the toss and Joe Root grinds out a double hundred.

But England should be careful what they wish for. If India wins the toss, the Rohit triple that's lurking round the corner, could happen. They already have the dubious honour of watching Lara do it twice and even Karun Nair

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't mean to interject in your debate with [MENTION=16]Amjid Javed[/MENTION] but I think you are being untruthful here. I watched the game too and agree that the puff of dust was a ball-by-ball occurrence for the spinners. The same happened in the last match.

Look, I get making use of home advantage, I really do. But there comes a point where you take it so far that there isn't a game. What is the point of a 2 day game? Yes you achieve the end result of an extra '1' added to the win column but you have essentially done that at the expense of an actual game.

The reason we all like this sport is because we get to witness some world class battles between great batsmen and great bowlers. A balance where both have to work hard to win. No doubt conditions will favour the home team, but that doesn't mean it will be a walk in the park. The eventual winner will have to perform exceptionally well to defeat their opponent. That is what you call an enjoyable game.

Contrast that with what we have seen here which is a wicket on almost every ball with even all time greats like Kohli and Root looking like tailenders. I don't buy this excuse "oh but Crawley and Rohit were able to bat" - neither made a particularly big score and both could have been out to spin on numerous occasions before they eventually got out.

Overall, a really disappointing test match.

It happened in the last match. Yes no doubt. But not this match.

 

[Robert]

A good Indian pitch is one where England win the toss and Joe Root grinds out a double hundred.

But England should be careful what they wish for. If India wins the toss, the Rohit triple that's lurking round the corner, could happen. They already have the dubious honour of watching Lara do it twice and even Karun Nair

That Antigua wicket was the flattest in history. Good bowlers like Fraser, Caddick, Harmison, Tufnell, Hoggard, Jones and Flintoff were rendered powerless. The wicket did WI no good as both matches were high scoring draws.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don’t. When was there a three day test in England?

2018 Lords test. India v England.

1st day lost to rain. Match ended just after tea on day 4. This despite repeated rain interference.

 

[cricketjoshila]

A good Indian pitch is one where England win the toss and Joe Root grinds out a double hundred.

But England should be careful what they wish for. If India wins the toss, the Rohit triple that's lurking round the corner, could happen. They already have the dubious honour of watching Lara do it twice and even Karun Nair

Kohli and Shastri were ravaged by media when they picked two spinners on a green track at Lords in 2018. Test ended in 2 and a half days.

Here the whining is all about the pitch and not why England chose 4 seamers. They could have easily played 3 spinners.

 

[Robert]

2018 Lords test. India v England.

1st day lost to rain. Match ended just after tea on day 4. This despite repeated rain interference.

Ok but was that because because of the atmospheric conditions rather than the wicket. England got 400 with Chris Woakes scoring a century at #8 so batting was possible. ECB can’t control the weather.

 

[street cricketer]

Ok but was that because because of the atmospheric conditions rather than the wicket. England got 400 with Chris Woakes scoring a century at #8 so batting was possible. ECB can’t control the weather.

Actually it was the previous test at Edgbaston that had more to do with the atmospheric conditions than the Lords test. The test at Birmingham recorded one of the highest degree of swing movement for matches that happened in England in the last decade.



The difficult batting conditions at the Lords had to do with a combination of a damp wicket plus atmospheric conditions, but mostly the wicket itself as it was more about exaggerated seam movement off the wicket than swing movement. What the atmosphere did was that the dark gloomy and rainy sky for most of the first 2 days prevented the dampness in the wicket from drying out under the sun.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lord's 2018 ranked 13th for most seam movement from a pitch in England since 2006, and 67th for most swing. It wasn't purely down to the weather. England produce helpful wickets when they think it'll help them too - it would be incompetent, negligent even, if they didn't. <a href="https://t.co/xoJGFIsEmL">https://t.co/xoJGFIsEmL</a></p>— Ben Jones (@benjonescricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/benjonescricket/status/1360839883087097856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Robert]

Actually it was the previous test at Edgbaston that had more to do with the atmospheric conditions than the Lords test. The test at Birmingham recorded one of the highest degree of swing movement for matches that happened in England in the last decade.

View attachment 107537

The difficult batting conditions at the Lords had to do with a combination of a damp wicket plus atmospheric conditions, but mostly the wicket itself as it was more about exaggerated seam movement off the wicket than swing movement. What the atmosphere did was that the dark gloomy and rainy sky for most of the first 2 days prevented the dampness in the wicket from drying out under the sun.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lord's 2018 ranked 13th for most seam movement from a pitch in England since 2006, and 67th for most swing. It wasn't purely down to the weather. England produce helpful wickets when they think it'll help them too - it would be incompetent, negligent even, if they didn't. <a href="https://t.co/xoJGFIsEmL">https://t.co/xoJGFIsEmL</a></p>— Ben Jones (@benjonescricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/benjonescricket/status/1360839883087097856?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

These figures seem like red herrings to me. Kohli apart, the Indian batters couldn’t manage in the swinging conditions of the tour. That whole summer was damp and overcast and the England top order batters struggled too, with England winning tight matches due to counterattacks from the lower order. Rain and damp means the grass will grow quickly too. Even if Mick Hunt mowed the wicket on the eve of the first, it would keep growing.

Conversely the 2019 summer was sunnier for the WC and the Ashes with not much swing or seam.

 

[Amjid Javed]

So no indian fans so excessive turn in this match. No puffs of dust when ball landed.

Also to those in india watching game on radio.

What i said was this was worst test ive seen in relation to quality of cricket plus poor pitch.

Yet all indian fans responses are we didnt see pitch break up.Was the pitch dangerous?

Did at any point i say the pitch was dangerous, it can still be rated poor.

Ive seen dangerous pitches produced in W.i a couple of times. Also over sporting ones in NZ when india toured in past.

But here we get a pretty much day 5 pitch on day 1 for a test match.

The lack of comprehension of most indian fans is comical as usual.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Worst test match you have seen ?
I assume that you dont watch your home teams test matches in that case !

Read my post! I clearly said the pitch made the game a lottery and took skill factor out of the game. Yet another indian fan blindly ignoring the poor pitch and not knowing how to read a post properly.

 

[Amjid Javed]

He is not talking about the skills (or lack of) of the players, but the quality of the pitch. in my memory don't think pakistan ever played on any such poor pitch.

Thank you finally someone who understands what i mean. Not having head buried in sand over the pitch issue.

 

[RamLakhan]

I don't know whose idea was it to prepare these so called rank turners! Indian pitches were recently known for proper balanced pitches which gave most advantage to actually its pacers (Ishant, Umesh, Shami...). Not its so-called HTB Batsmen or HTB Spinners, but its work-horse Pacers!

With this series I think people have forgotten this intense truth and have defamed these true-hearted Indian pacers who outperformed both Indian Spinners & Non-Indian Pacers on what seems to be the most unlucky pitches for pacers! These pacers learnt the art of bowling on these pitches, and they are the main reason for all our home dominance & success in recent years!

Also people are mocking Jadeja & Ashwin for boosting their stats! But more than their performance (in bowling) it is the balance they gave to the team which allowed us to play the extra bowler (3rd seamer at most times!) because they are good with bat and compensated for the 6th batsman! And they are smarter than normal spinners! They were able to pick wickets at ease not because of the so-called turning tracks but it is more because of the damage done by the pacers! These 3 pacers & these two lovely spinners combined as an army and got all those wickets! And the matches used to invariably go into the 5th day and mostly India won matches after losing tosses (as Kohli is too good in that!)

People should go back and look at the facts!

Its high time our management goes back to those days of preparing proper slow tracks where the opposition is tested for their skills & patience! And nobody should stop us from preparing those slow tracks, because we cannot & should not prepare green tracks or SENA tracks, then what's the difference & variety across the countries?

Now with Pant in the lineup (solid No.6 batsman) India should get back to those beautiful slow tracks which can allow them to play 3 pacers & 2 Proper Spinners (which is sufficient) With Bumrah starting to play in home matches, we should get back to those tracks and kill the opposition who don't have spinners of our caliber & even pacers of our caliber (on these kind of pitches!)

It is actually hurting us more than the opposition with these kind of rank-turners! It is damaging the batting-records of some of our own batsmen (who are surrendering to bowlers like Root) Its been ages since Kohli, Pujara... have scored centuries. And its also important to groom players like Gill by allowing them to score some runs... This will help them bat well even when they go overseas...

So lets get back to our actual mode of dominance at home and avoid these raised eyebrows...

OUR PACERS DOMINATING OPPOSITION PACERS ON OUR OWN PITCHES IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WAY OF HOME DOMINANCE! THIS IS SOMETHING SPECIAL AND UNIQUE FEAT...!

And at the same time lets not complain about pitches we get in overseas/SENA, let them provide whatever they want, we will prepare for it & combat (like we did in Australia), lets not stoop to their level of cheap accusations! But lets stop preparing these rank-turners which are damaging our own legacy! If this continues our batsmen may forget batting & scoring runs and may aspire playing only in IPL...

 

[RamLakhan]

I made my views on the pitch clear in the match thread itself, any wicket that makes Joe Root turn the ball like Ashwin does is not a good wicket. I thought it was a poor game that made for bad viewing from a test cricket pov.

Root's post match comments have been interesting. He feels this was more of a 250 par wicket but the extra lacquer layer or two on the pink ball meant that the ball skidded on to the batsman faster than they expected and the batsmen weren't clever enough to adapt to the different ball. The pink SG ball has gripped and turned big every time it landed on the seam and skidded on to the stumps fast whenever it landed on the non-seam part.

On hindsight, I feel this was more of a 3 day 200-250 par wicket but the batsmen taken aback by the pink SG ball skidding on faster than they expected meant that they were late on the ball which is probably why a lot of them got bowled and lbw and looked foolish missing the straight balls. I think purely on the pitch quality, the last wicket was worse than this wicket where the top was exploding far more in Chennai than this one.

But if you saw the last match, the normal red SG ball got old pretty quickly and once it got worn out, it became a bit easier to bat which is how Ashwin was able to make a century on the 3rd day. The extra two layers of lacquer has meant that the ball has remained new, bounced more and seam not getting worn out quickly resulted in the ball turning big + skidding on fast = perfect conditions for disaster with the bat. I get the feeling if the pink SG ball had been used for the last match, it would have ended in two days and if the normal SG red ball had been used for this match, this match could have gone till the third or even the morning of the fourth day like the last test.

Bottom line from this match is that for the pink ball matches in India, even a normal turner would result in the game finishing inside two days due to the added lethality of the pink SG ball and hence to have a good match, either 400 par wickets should be created or seaming wickets with a thin layer of grass.

Perhaps this point is correct! I think its better to prepare a flatter pitch for a pink ball test, because the ball & conditions (twilight) itself are going to affect batting...

 

[Hari Sombar]

The pitch wasnt a good one, but was also not a poor one, it was not a 150 pitch.
Batting especially from england was very poor, they did not learn and adapt accordingly, constantly getting out to straight balls while playing for spin, despite watching the whole indian team do the same thing in their 1st dig.
Poor batting.

 

[mastimasti]

It's ok to have a green top that seams and swings from the first ball to the last and makes a batsman's life a misery.

But it's not ok to prepare a pitch that has a lot of cracks and takes spin from ball of the match?

Discuss.

I am unsure what the double standard here is. How often has a test match, in the modern age achieved a result in roughly 140 overs or less than 2 days of cricket?

Green tops are not over produced in England, sometimes in New Zealand and are not possible in SA or Aus.

On top of that conditions have to be cool and damp for the bowl to swing.

All in all I have never seen a green top in the age of uncovered pitches produce a game like this.

As an Indian I want better pitches for a sporting contest.

 

[observer1]

Make whatever conditions you want. Just make it a 5 day pitch.

I love a low scoring game, but a Test game with all 4 innings complete after 1.5 days is astnoshing

 

[CanadianG00se]

Ok but was that because because of the atmospheric conditions rather than the wicket. England got 400 with Chris Woakes scoring a century at #8 so batting was possible. ECB can’t control the weather.

Well then in 2nd test match Ashwin(bowling allrounder similar to Woakes) scored century and India scored more than 600 combined runs in a test match, yet you guys were moaning about pitch.
Is that not double standards?

Ahmedabad pitch would have played more or less like 2nd test, if it was not played with pink ball.

 

[Buffet]

The pitch wasnt a good one, but was also not a poor one, it was not a 150 pitch.
Batting especially from england was very poor, .

England has not crossed 180 in the last 5 innings when the ball turned.

You give a sharp turner to Eng and if India collapse in one inning then how many posters here expect the match to last long? India is also poor against spin, but they had two tons in 2nd test so I expect them to make some runs.

It was not a good pitch, but not due to lasting for only 2 days. To say the pitch is good or bad, you can simply look at how it was behaving.