The ineptness of the Indian Air Force

[Savak]

They have a larger naval force because of the size of their coast. The disparity is mostly in the number of active soldiers. The rest Pakistan can match India punch for punch.


Also most defense analyst predict that a defensive army only has to be about 1/3 of offensive army to have even standing.

Size of the army i.e. foot solidiers and some equipment, technology is useless in a guerella war fare situation.

 

[pillionrider]

This is difficult because you have to give the impression of being weak, disorganized and there for the taking and then time it just right to turn around, coordinate and take down a strong enemy (since a weak enemy won't really pursue). Had the PAF downed the IAF jets in Indian territory, it would have been an act of war. Had their retreat been too quick, the IAF might not have pursued. Had it been too slow, they would have been the ones captured or worse.

Good Morning Sir,
Nice to see you're back in full spirits.

So essentially you're saying that Pak fighters did a better job of 'tail between legs' and running scared than the Indian fighters did the other day?

Since you have such military insight, can you please share with us civvies how they practiced and honed this?

Thank you.

 

[Syed1]

Good Morning Sir,
Nice to see you're back in full spirits.

So essentially you're saying that Pak fighters did a better job of 'tail between legs' and running scared than the Indian fighters did the other day?

Since you have such military insight, can you please share with us civvies how they practiced and honed this?

Thank you.

Let's be honest here if there were no videos of Abhinand you guys would have denied that even a single jet went down like you are denying the second jet.

 

[pillionrider]

Let's be honest here if there were no videos of Abhinand you guys would have denied that even a single jet went down like you are denying the second jet.

Yes for a few days, but this is something that is bound to come out sooner.

Let's say he died while crashing in some thick jungle or remote area and Pak authorities are unable to find the wreckage. So no proof right. But I still say, it would have come out from the Indian side. It's hard for Pakistanis to maybe believe cuz many are convinced and even maybe like the bloodthirsty Hindu image . But reality is, India is still democratic in almost everything. Despite Modi's best efforts to kill it. It is a disorganized democracy and things take time. But they eventually happen.

Also, among the rabble rousing riff raff press, you have some dedicated honest journalists who are very good at what they do, especially ones who cover the defence.

 

[Slog]

Yes for a few days, but this is something that is bound to come out sooner.

Let's say he died while crashing in some thick jungle or remote area and Pak authorities are unable to find the wreckage. So no proof right. But I still say, it would have come out from the Indian side. It's hard for Pakistanis to maybe believe cuz many are convinced and even maybe like the bloodthirsty Hindu image . But reality is, India is still democratic in almost everything. Despite Modi's best efforts to kill it. It is a disorganized democracy and things take time. But they eventually happen.

Also, among the rabble rousing riff raff press, you have some dedicated honest journalists who are very good at what they do, especially ones who cover the defence.

I can guarantee that no one was killed in the Indian air strikes. And besides there is no proof. You can’t magically hide 30 deaths let’s along 300 in this day and age. Whenever there was a drone attack and 2-3 deaths there would be so much local video footage and then there would be funeral coverage etc. And somehow this just disappeared into thin air and into a parallel world where no cameras exist? And journalists and locals who have scoured the area can find nothing but a few craters and downed trees?

Yet any Indian journalist or otherwise who says anything but the official line is hounded it and termed a traitor.

Some democracy and some freedom of press you have.

 

[pillionrider]

You can’t magically hide 30 deaths let’s along 300 in this day and age.

Many in India including myself have been skeptical of these claims from Day 1, given the BJP's track record of lies.

I can guarantee that no one was killed in the Indian air strikes.

You can guarantee...

Some democracy and some freedom of press you have.

It's hard for you to get, so you should maybe let it be

 

[Slog]

Many in India including myself have been skeptical of these claims from Day 1, given the BJP's track record of lies.




You can guarantee...



It's hard for you to get, so you should maybe let it be

We’re tears rolling down your cheek when you typed this?

You sound defeated like your weak pilot

Want some chai and biscuits?

 

[Syed1]

We’re tears rolling down your cheek when you typed this?

You sound defeated like your weak pilot

Want some chai and biscuits?

One should be humble in victory

 

[Chrish]

Mig-21s first entered into service in 1950s! Why would any military still use it?

 

[Slog]

One should be humble in victory

True. My apologies to pillion

 

[pillionrider]

We’re tears rolling down your cheek when you typed this?

Yeah, not just now. Over the last few days too, watching you and some of my other favorite bravehearts here doing their keyboard

Want some chai and biscuits?

Is that the tactic you used to appease those Indian guys at Uni who were making you nervous

 

[sjahmed23]

So let me get this straight.

What Pakistan is saying

1. They shot down 2 Indian jets.
2. One fell in Pakistan controlled Kashmir and another in Indian controlled Kashmir.
3. They have captured one IAF pilot. (Earlier they said 2-3 but now its 1...correct?)
4. They didn't lose any jets.

What India is saying

1. They shot down 1 Pakistani jet. Didn't name it in their official statement.
2. The aircraft fell in Pakistan controlled Kashmir.
3. They lost one MIG 20.
4. They were missing one IAF pilot (later acknowledged that he was in Pak custody).

--

Is this correct?

What's the final verdict?

Is there any way to find out about aircrafts that fell on Indian/Pakistan controlled Kashmir? There doesn't seem to be a murmur on either side regarding these supposedly crashed aircrafts.

There are two crash sites, one has dead Indian soldiers and one has captured Indian soldier. No Pakistani crash site only TV anchor claims with wishful thinking.

 

[Syed1]

Yes for a few days, but this is something that is bound to come out sooner.

Let's say he died while crashing in some thick jungle or remote area and Pak authorities are unable to find the wreckage. So no proof right. But I still say, it would have come out from the Indian side. It's hard for Pakistanis to maybe believe cuz many are convinced and even maybe like the bloodthirsty Hindu image . But reality is, India is still democratic in almost everything. Despite Modi's best efforts to kill it. It is a disorganized democracy and things take time. But they eventually happen.

Also, among the rabble rousing riff raff press, you have some dedicated honest journalists who are very good at what they do, especially ones who cover the defence.

I'm glad to know that.... On this side of the fence we only hear Arnab Goswami types

 

[JaDed]

We’re tears rolling down your cheek when you typed this?

You sound defeated like your weak pilot

Want some chai and biscuits?

Ego is hurt even for me, and its your time you can mock us am sure with change of guard coming summer in our politics we would get back to our strength and better strategists learning from what happened yesterday.

 

[slipcatch]

Ego is hurt even for me, and its your time you can mock us am sure with change of guard coming summer in our politics we would get back to our strength and better strategists learning from what happened yesterday.

Hopefully that strategy is for the peace in the region than promoting racist and ignorant ideology.

 

[pillionrider]

I'm glad to know that.... On this side of the fence we only hear Arnab Goswami types

Dunno if you're really interested but these are some names to look out for

N Ram from The Hindu
Ravish Kumar - NDTV
Manu Pubby - first guy yesterday from Indian side to talk about captured Indian pilot
Ajai Shukla - good with defence stuff

Lots of independent websites and sources like Alt News, Cobrapost, Caravan.

Tarun Tejpal was also pretty good until they managed to frame him on some bizarre sexual conduct charge

 

[JaDed]

Hopefully that strategy is for the peace in the region than promoting racist and ignorant ideology.

Naw irrespective what happened and how Imran Khan has portrayed(well done to him) we know proxy wars happen, Congress always did well with soft power(across world) and made sure we were equipped to deal when required with misadventures, that strategy along with more scientific approach, time to utilize our space programs lets see.

 

[Slog]

Yeah, not just now. Over the last few days too, watching you and some of my other favorite bravehearts here doing their keyboard



Is that the tactic you used to appease those Indian guys at Uni who were making you nervous

Lol I made this Indian guys cry like you are just now )

Vigil lol.

 

[Chrish]

Naw irrespective what happened and how Imran Khan has portrayed(well done to him) we know proxy wars happen, Congress always did well with soft power(across world) and made sure we were equipped to deal when required with misadventures, that strategy along with more scientific approach, time to utilize our space programs lets see.

Indian war technology is way behind. Beating Pakistan doesn’t really mean anything in a grand scheme.

India is really lacking in comparison with China and Russia. China has been hacking directly from Pantagon for years and Russia has had rich military history thanks to WWII and Cold War.

 

[slipcatch]

Naw irrespective what happened and how Imran Khan has portrayed(well done to him) we know proxy wars happen, Congress always did well with soft power(across world) and made sure we were equipped to deal when required with misadventures, that strategy along with more scientific approach, time to utilize our space programs lets see.

India can’t win a proxy war on Pakistan’s western border for a while.

India will also have to increase number of soldiers in Indian occupied Kashmir and that all has to do with last 5 years of Modi’s policies in Kashmir.

Let’s be honest so far Pak has had upper hand in proxy wars.

In this misadventures of Modi’s, Pakistan also have came out ahead in all medium of media.

 

[Varun]

Sooner or later it will be made available like the F-16. Then it will be too late.

Nope - the tooling for the F-22 is destroyed, and even the USAF can't get one if they wanted to.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Nope - the tooling for the F-22 is destroyed, and even the USAF can't get one if they wanted to.

Why would they do something that drastic?

 

[Usman Chadda]

We’re tears rolling down your cheek when you typed this?

You sound defeated like your weak pilot

Want some chai and biscuits?

He sounds defeated, and possibly depressed at the state of his country right now. It's a laughing stock in the media. India bombs and kills 300 militants, zero proof. Pakistan captures one pilot, evidence given.

I believe various international media outlets are reporting Pakistan's side of the story.

But let them live in their bubble. The one where the onus is not on the accuser to provide evidence (that's exactly what some Indians implied on the first day of the strike).

 

[rhony]

Indian war technology is way behind. Beating Pakistan doesn’t really mean anything in a grand scheme.

India is really lacking in comparison with China and Russia. China has been hacking directly from Pantagon for years and Russia has had rich military history thanks to WWII and Cold War.

Good points. At the end of the day, India wants to be compared to China. India has constantly increased it's clout in the global space through soft power and diplomacy but that's not enough. To gain real power, a country has to be very strong militarily. I don't think India is a match to China. One could even say India is to China what Pakistan is to India. You could apply the same logic to the economy of these countries as well. Ways to go.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

There are two crash sites, one has dead Indian soldiers and one has captured Indian soldier. No Pakistani crash site only TV anchor claims with wishful thinking.

Where are the two crash sites?

 

[JaDed]

Where are the two crash sites?

One is in India, we are claiming its a chopper at Badgam.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

One is in India, we are claiming its a chopper at Badgam.

Pak haven't claimed to strike them. They have claimed to strike a jet which fell in our side of Kashmir.

6 killed in our chopper crash.

 

[Varun]

Why would they do something that drastic?

Because they wanted to throw their weight behind the silly F-35.

It has tuned out to be the worst military decision ever.

 

[Mamoon]

IAF goofed up big time. From wrongly navigating the JeM camp to getting baited by our jets - it has been absolute shambles.

A massive revamp is in order, which seems to be on the way with the upgraded F-16s (F-21) on the way.

Nevertheless, lying and denying will not make the IAF better.

 

[Varun]

A massive revamp is in order, which seems to be on the way with the upgraded F-16s (F-21) on the way.

Not happening. Hell will freeze over before we get an American military craft.

We are due 36 x Rafales, 40 x MKIs and are negotiating some additional MiG-29s from Russia, along with somehow having the sloths at HAL deliver the 40 Tejas that were due.

IN SPITE OF THAT, the MiG-21s are set to be retired only by 2028. What a joke.

 

[JaDed]

Pak haven't claimed to strike them. They have claimed to strike a jet which fell in our side of Kashmir.

6 killed in our chopper crash.

Yes, I just meant the poster is talking about this on assumption.

 

[pillionrider]

Not happening. Hell will freeze over before we get an American military craft.

We are due 36 x Rafales, 40 x MKIs and are negotiating some additional MiG-29s from Russia, along with somehow having the sloths at HAL deliver the 40 Tejas that were due.

IN SPITE OF THAT, the MiG-21s are set to be retired only by 2028. What a joke.

The MiG was used apparently because the Pak intrusion happened closest to its base.

 

[Varun]

The MiG was used apparently because the Pak intrusion happened closest to its base.

Do ocean fish like to feast on the dead carcasses of 50-year old MiG-21s?

Left to me, I'll load them into a truck and dump them there. No more deaths. No more shootdowns. No more crashes. No more captures.

 

[Bilal7]

Good Morning Sir,
Nice to see you're back in full spirits.

So essentially you're saying that Pak fighters did a better job of 'tail between legs' and running scared than the Indian fighters did the other day?

Since you have such military insight, can you please share with us civvies how they practiced and honed this?

Thank you.

This is why India has been been conquered again and again. Not a hint of strategic thinking in the whole populace. The IAF did the tucking their tails and running business, the PAF lured them in and snagged them hook, line and sinker.

You don't need to be in the military to be familiar with what I said. You just need to be
fairly well-read in the field of history.

Because they wanted to throw their weight behind the silly F-35.

It has tuned out to be the worst military decision ever.

Why can't they just build the tools they need for those jets again?

 

[Romali_rotti]

IN SPITE OF THAT, the MiG-21s are set to be retired only by 2028. What a joke.

NO, the joke is Tejas still not combat ready..... Instead of trying to bomb Pakistan, Airforce should bomb the living daylights out of HAL......

 

[Varun]

NO, the joke is Tejas still not combat ready..... Instead of trying to bomb Pakistan, Airforce should bomb the living daylights out of HAL......

Easy - they may just offload some fuel tanks and claim that 300 aircraft have been taken down.

 

[Varun]

Why can't they just build the tools they need for those jets again?

I'm linking over a few articles. Hope you find them useful:

The Air Force Won't Build New F-22 Raptors. Here's Why.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/air-force-wont-build-new-f-22-raptors-heres-why-27282

The F-22 Is Nearly Unstoppable (But the Air Force Has Too Few of Them)
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-22-nearly-unstoppable-air-force-has-too-few-them-32152

Why America Simply Can't Build Anymore F-22 Raptors
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-america-simply-cant-build-anymore-f-22-raptors-21264

All from the same site, but you can do your own research on other sites, forums, etc.

 

[Hornbill]

What happened to the second pilot where is he, is this a fake news ?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources: Picture of portion of downed Pakistani Air Force jet F16 from yesterday’s failed PAF raid, wreckage was in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Also seen in pic, Commanding Officer of Pakistan’s 7 Northern Light Infantry. <a href="https://t.co/weYcB0G5eD">pic.twitter.com/weYcB0G5eD</a></p>— ANI (@ANI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1100990350640992256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Bilal7]

What happened to the second pilot where is he, is this a fake news ?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources: Picture of portion of downed Pakistani Air Force jet F16 from yesterday’s failed PAF raid, wreckage was in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Also seen in pic, Commanding Officer of Pakistan’s 7 Northern Light Infantry. <a href="https://t.co/weYcB0G5eD">pic.twitter.com/weYcB0G5eD</a></p>— ANI (@ANI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1100990350640992256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's fake. Pakistan did not even use F-16s over the last couple of days and isn't it convenient how this is the only "evidence" India have about their claim. This is a lie to save face.

I'm linking over a few articles. Hope you find them useful:

The Air Force Won't Build New F-22 Raptors. Here's Why.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/air-force-wont-build-new-f-22-raptors-heres-why-27282

The F-22 Is Nearly Unstoppable (But the Air Force Has Too Few of Them)
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-22-nearly-unstoppable-air-force-has-too-few-them-32152

Why America Simply Can't Build Anymore F-22 Raptors
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-america-simply-cant-build-anymore-f-22-raptors-21264

All from the same site, but you can do your own research on other sites, forums, etc.

Thanks, bud. This looks interesting.

 

[Mamoon]

Not happening. Hell will freeze over before we get an American military craft.

We are due 36 x Rafales, 40 x MKIs and are negotiating some additional MiG-29s from Russia, along with somehow having the sloths at HAL deliver the 40 Tejas that were due.

IN SPITE OF THAT, the MiG-21s are set to be retired only by 2028. What a joke.

A lot of people are blaming R. Gandhi for India’s archaic jets. Apparently, he vetoed an order of new jets in the parliament. Is that true?

 

[Hornbill]

It's fake. Pakistan did not even use F-16s over the last couple of days and isn't it convenient how this is the only "evidence" India have about their claim. This is a lie to save face.



Thanks, bud. This looks interesting.

Our ground forces arrested two pilots; one of them was injured and has been shifted to CMH [Combined Military Hospital] and, God-willing, he will be taken care of," said the army official.

"The other one is with us."

Later, in a tweet, he said that only one pilot is currently in the custody of the Pakistan Army.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dawn.com/news/amp/1466347

I'm not sure about claims from both sides

 

[Varun]

A lot of people are blaming R. Gandhi for India’s archaic jets. Apparently, he vetoed an order of new jets in the parliament. Is that true?

He's been making some noise about the Rafale procurement but he is too new and smalltime to do anything to progress/hinder procurement.

Our Air Force has systemic issues that span decades. Mired by acres of red tape and bureaucracy.

 

[Greenstorm]

India can’t win a proxy war on Pakistan’s western border for a while.

India will also have to increase number of soldiers in Indian occupied Kashmir and that all has to do with last 5 years of Modi’s policies in Kashmir.

Let’s be honest so far Pak has had upper hand in proxy wars.

In this misadventures of Modi’s, Pakistan also have came out ahead in all medium of media.

Not at all. India has killed 50000+ Pakistanis in last 15 years, sprung up movements in Balochistan, established PTM, worked with MQM to keep unrest in Karachi for decades, hired puppets in media, mukti bahni and the list goes on, and they did it professionally by sending in Kulbhushans and establishing numerous consulates in Afghanistan.

On the other hand, we foolishly used to send mujahideens which only tarnished our image. Supporting Sikh separatists was a decent move but that ended with Zia's death. India is far ahead of us when it comes to proxy warfare and we have a lot to learn.

 

[Mahee]

What happened to the second pilot where is he, is this a fake news ?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sources: Picture of portion of downed Pakistani Air Force jet F16 from yesterday’s failed PAF raid, wreckage was in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Also seen in pic, Commanding Officer of Pakistan’s 7 Northern Light Infantry. <a href="https://t.co/weYcB0G5eD">pic.twitter.com/weYcB0G5eD</a></p>— ANI (@ANI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1100990350640992256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 28, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

yes, everything that's against pak is fake

 

[a_tahir]

yes, everything that's against pak is fake

Saw a pic from someone on twitter debunking this claim. He showed the Indian Plane and it had the EXACT same look as the piece shown.

So stop lying to your public.

 

[a_tahir]

yes, everything that's against pak is fake

https://mobile.twitter.com/schaheid/status/1101023719265353728

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

I always believed that from 47 to 99 India have had upper hand as I believed on what I read on rubbish wwws. But what I have seen in last 2, 3 days is just mind boggling. How the Indian Govt, army & media claims the unexisted false events into reality. Now if I factually analyze each and every war then the tales of pak army generals are more credible then these cheat wwws.

 

[Pakpak]

yes, everything that's against pak is fake

That's the Indian plane and the BBC posted the same set of pictures. Go troll somewhere else.

 

[the Great Khan]

Thanks for your insights, but there is absolutely zero evidence that an MKI has been taken down. Your post is the first I have heard of such.

If we have indeed lost an Su-30, the IAF is infinitely more incompetent than I imagined.

i watched a aljazeera report that is also available on the net where an Indian policeman confirmed they had found two bodies amongst the wreckage of the craft that had crashed in Indian kashmir. Now it is either a Mig-29 or a SU-30. it cant be a two seater MIG-21 because they are used for training. it cant be a jaguar because they are strike aircraft and not interceptors. MIG-21's generally will fly with top cover from another craft generally an ir to air fighter in this case either a MIG-29 or an SU-30. The captured pilot was also a SU-30 pilot but at this time seems to be flying a MIG-21.

We will have the "gun camera" footage and I'm sure at some point the PAF will release it to clarify. I'm not surprised if the indian media and military are keeping quiet about this as it would be a massive shock if the vaunted SU-30 was taken down by "that chinese piece of junk the thunder)..

 

[Varun]

i watched a aljazeera report that is also available on the net where an Indian policeman confirmed they had found two bodies amongst the wreckage of the craft that had crashed in Indian kashmir. Now it is either a Mig-29 or a SU-30. it cant be a two seater MIG-21 because they are used for training. it cant be a jaguar because they are strike aircraft and not interceptors. MIG-21's generally will fly with top cover from another craft generally an ir to air fighter in this case either a MIG-29 or an SU-30. The captured pilot was also a SU-30 pilot but at this time seems to be flying a MIG-21.

We will have the "gun camera" footage and I'm sure at some point the PAF will release it to clarify. I'm not surprised if the indian media and military are keeping quiet about this as it would be a massive shock if the vaunted SU-30 was taken down by "that chinese piece of junk the thunder)..

I still doubt it. 2 dead pilots and their families will still need to be accounted for.

And of course the question of the wreckage. Plus Pakistan would have loudly claimed the shootdown.

Things don't add up for a Su-30MKI / Mig-29 shootdown.

The policeman might have been referring to the chopper crash from last morning.

 

[the Great Khan]

I still doubt it. 2 dead pilots and their families will still need to be accounted for.

And of course the question of the wreckage. Plus Pakistan would have loudly claimed the shootdown.

Things don't add up for a Su-30MKI / Mig-29 shootdown.

The policeman might have been referring to the chopper crash from last morning.

Initial reports confirm two planes shot down. However this has now become one definatley 100% confirmed, the second confirmed but awaiting further information. More information will be coming out. The report I saw was not the helicopter crash as that was a different report. this one was clearly a plane not a helicopter. There wasnt much left which shows that it was hit in the air and then crashed from a great height. You could still make out the tail and other bits of the chopper.

Coming onto the so called shooting down of the F16. It could be possible as sometimes our F16's provide top cover to the Thunders during strike missions. However this time we were stopped from using the F16's to go across the border by the americans. They were flying CAPs near Lahore and Sialkot a couple of nights ago but not this time. it has been confirmed that the black panthers squadron which is a JF17 squadron carried out the strikes and all craft returned home. They also took out the MIG21 and its companion aircraft.

Also if Indian had brought down the craft the locals in kashmir would have provided evidence. We also have some reporters in the area and we would have needed to find our pilot urgently so teh SSG would have been on site pretty quickly. The locals would have been all over the area. look what they nearly did to the Indian pilot. A local would not know the difference between an indian jet falling from the sky and a pakistani jet falling. Its been nearly 36-48 hours and nothing anywhere about a lost F16..all are accounted for.

Finally eh would have been given a fulls ervice burial and declared a shaheed, probably awarded a nishan-e-haider. So we would know his name. We would also probably added a bit of masala to the fact he got shot down e.g. he sacrificed his life so the thunders could carry out there mission etc etc..

The fact is we evaded Indian air defences in kashmir in broad daylight, targeted the area freely and when challenged (which seems to be quite late) proceeded over our boundary and only fired when the pursuers crossed the boundary. End of. this cannot be denied.

When India came over and did the balakot thing, we all began pointing fingers at the PAF. What were they doing? how could this have happened? why did we let it? Heads should roll. etc etc...IK is finished blah blah..Its time you as Indians do the same. Question your govt. Your armed forces. Why did this happen? why did it come to this? just for a few seats? thats just like Nawaz sharif almost..

And Modi should not be allowed to get away with the fact he has sacrificed a brave jawaan for some election seats..

And Ill say this here imran Khan has just increased his legendary status, The man has become a true living legend now!

 

[Varun]

Initial reports confirm two planes shot down. However this has now become one definatley 100% confirmed, the second confirmed but awaiting further information. More information will be coming out. The report I saw was not the helicopter crash as that was a different report. this one was clearly a plane not a helicopter. There wasnt much left which shows that it was hit in the air and then crashed from a great height. You could still make out the tail and other bits of the chopper.

Coming onto the so called shooting down of the F16. It could be possible as sometimes our F16's provide top cover to the Thunders during strike missions. However this time we were stopped from using the F16's to go across the border by the americans. They were flying CAPs near Lahore and Sialkot a couple of nights ago but not this time. it has been confirmed that the black panthers squadron which is a JF17 squadron carried out the strikes and all craft returned home. They also took out the MIG21 and its companion aircraft.

Also if Indian had brought down the craft the locals in kashmir would have provided evidence. We also have some reporters in the area and we would have needed to find our pilot urgently so teh SSG would have been on site pretty quickly. The locals would have been all over the area. look what they nearly did to the Indian pilot. A local would not know the difference between an indian jet falling from the sky and a pakistani jet falling. Its been nearly 36-48 hours and nothing anywhere about a lost F16..all are accounted for.

Finally eh would have been given a fulls ervice burial and declared a shaheed, probably awarded a nishan-e-haider. So we would know his name. We would also probably added a bit of masala to the fact he got shot down e.g. he sacrificed his life so the thunders could carry out there mission etc etc..

The fact is we evaded Indian air defences in kashmir in broad daylight, targeted the area freely and when challenged (which seems to be quite late) proceeded over our boundary and only fired when the pursuers crossed the boundary. End of. this cannot be denied.

When India came over and did the balakot thing, we all began pointing fingers at the PAF. What were they doing? how could this have happened? why did we let it? Heads should roll. etc etc...IK is finished blah blah..Its time you as Indians do the same. Question your govt. Your armed forces. Why did this happen? why did it come to this? just for a few seats? thats just like Nawaz sharif almost..

And Modi should not be allowed to get away with the fact he has sacrificed a brave jawaan for some election seats..

And Ill say this here imran Khan has just increased his legendary status, The man has become a true living legend now!

Well, those are good reasons for proving that the PAF have not lost an F-16. However, it is only fair that you use the same to prove that the IAF hasn't lost a Su-30MKI. There would be too many smoking guns that can't be obscured by both governments, leave alone the people on the ground.

 

[PetroDollars]

so india sent an mig protected by a Su-30, and both got taken down by a jf17, where are the people who were laughting at jf17s

china should will be proud

 

[MosheD]

so india sent an mig protected by a Su-30, and both got taken down by a jf17, where are the people who were laughting at jf17s

china should will be proud

lol why stop at that ..
lets go with Mig+Su 30 + F35 + F22 all got taken out by a single JF-17

 

[Hermoine Green]

lol why stop at that ..
lets go with Mig+Su 30 + F35 + F22 all got taken out by a single JF-17

Truth is bitter, eh? Indian jets are advanced than ours, no doubt about it. But still our one Jet shoots down India's 2.

Deny as much as you can, won't change any thing. Good luck.

 

[MosheD]

Truth is bitter, eh? Indian jets are advanced than ours, no doubt about it. But still our one Jet shoots down India's 2.

Deny as much as you can, won't change any thing. Good luck.

DGISPR "truth" believe what you want lol , why stop at 2 , lets go with 7 and add a Rafale to the mix.

 

[Hermoine Green]

DGISPR "truth" believe what you want lol , why stop at 2 , lets go with 7 and add a Rafale to the mix.

Stopped at 2 because we aren't as smart like your Officials who claimed to send 12 Jets and destroyed our terrorist trees in order to cut our oxygen supply.

You people are much more advanced than us Thank you.

 

[MosheD]

Stopped at 2 because we aren't as smart like your Officials who claimed to send 12 Jets and destroyed our terrorist trees in order to cut our oxygen supply.

You people are much more advanced than us Thank you.

trees triggered all this ? much more advanced and gullible than the indians who claim to have killed 300 terrorists. the truth lies somewhere in the middle

 

[Sycamore]

trees triggered all this ? much more advanced and gullible than the indians who claim to have killed 300 terrorists. the truth lies somewhere in the middle

What indians need to realise is that pakistani army is there to protect the country from threats. Now if any indian tom and harry can fly in and drop bombs over pakistani villages and civilians then they have failed. Therefore it doesn't matter if hit Trees, mosquitoes or even air , they needed to teach india a lesson. A lesson which has been taught infront of the whole world.

 

[Mamoon]

With all said and done, Modi has been humiliated because of the ineptness of IAF.

 

[Realromeo]

No Proof that SU-30 was taken out and no proof that F-16 was taken out. Validity of the indian statement in india has not yet been questioned. As BJP starts thumping its chest to take advantage of this decision for the election, the opposition parties will start questioning its validity and more people will ask question.

 

[Realromeo]

IAF publicly claiming they did shoot down an F-16. I had the highest regard for IAF, this is fing embarrassing on another level. Maybe OP is right IAF is indeed inept.

 

[Varun]

IAF publicly claiming they did shoot down an F-16. I had the highest regard for IAF, this is fing embarrassing on another level. Maybe OP is right IAF is indeed inept.

They have zero credibility with the sheer number of aircraft and personnel losses during peacetime, leave alone during the last couple of days.

Champions of manufacturing fairytales though, gotta give them that.

 

[cricketjoshila]

They have zero credibility with the sheer number of aircraft and personnel losses during peacetime, leave alone during the last couple of days.

Champions of manufacturing fairytales though, gotta give them that.

You have all the credibility.Right?

 

[the Great Khan]

Well, those are good reasons for proving that the PAF have not lost an F-16. However, it is only fair that you use the same to prove that the IAF hasn't lost a Su-30MKI. There would be too many smoking guns that can't be obscured by both governments, leave alone the people on the ground.

Knowhere have I said you have lost a SU-30 100%. All Ive said is its looking like a very real possibility because we know two craft were shot down as we have seen the wreckage in pics and from independant news coverage. We can extrapolate but not confirm until we get proper evidence. The F16 one is, as of now, simply not true. One thing is for sure, we came into a supposedlyheavily air defended boundary, dropped quite a few "unarmed" munitions on some targets and then proceeded to get home without oo much trouble. Are you aware that one of our targets was your divisional HQ? a abomb was sent through its roof but the fuse was not armed?

Again as a indian taxpayer I would be questioning my govt and my air force.

 

[the Great Khan]

You have all the credibility.Right?

as for credibility your govt is now backtracking about crossing the LOC..I suggest you question them and not a poster on this forum who is rightly confused and angry at the response of his govt.

 

[Varun]

You have all the credibility.Right?

I have enough credibility to post threads and opinions on this forum, which in this context is all I'm aiming for.

The moment I claim that I am the 6th best air force in the world and want to play God of War, you can hold me to it.

In the meantime, I repeat my plea to you: please join me in dissecting the below par Indian Air Force online and offline. Let's press for change instead of wrapping up in a wet blanket - it will be for the greater good.

 

[cricketjoshila]

as for credibility your govt is now backtracking about crossing the LOC..I suggest you question them and not a poster on this forum who is rightly confused and angry at the response of his govt.

When did they back track?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I have enough credibility to post threads and opinions on this forum, which in this context is all I'm aiming for.

The moment I claim that I am the 6th best air force in the world and want to play God of War, you can hold me to it.

In the meantime, I repeat my plea to you: please join me in dissecting the below par Indian Air Force online and offline. Let's press for change instead of wrapping up in a wet blanket - it will be for the greater good.

When did the IAF fail to perform its duty of defending the nation?

Why was all air traffic across pakistan was closed while only 4 airports in India were closed and then reopened?

We just showed the debris of a AIM 120C which is used by PAF F 16s. PAF was denying they used F 16s. Tells me who has credibility who doesnt.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Did Indian Media just show proof of F-16 by parading a shell that was sold to Taiwan ?? ) ) WTH??

 

[a_tahir]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Lalika79/status/1101126044512411648

Indian media and IAF are getting exposed.
The missile part they found can be fitted on the pakistani plane JF17

 

[a_tahir]

For all u expecting peace don't forget modi is their PM.
India's planning another attack
https://mobile.twitter.com/timesofindia/status/1101134938357800960

 

[Zhasan]

I also find the lettering to be conveniently unimbellished and fully uncontorted while the whole missile body around it is completely destroyed. This is nothing but a case of Indians picking up a piece of debris from God knows where and what and slapping a fresh unusually dark coat of paint to show AIM 120C missile and on the only flat portion left on that piece of debris. Poor job to fake it.

 

[Hbomb00]

For all u expecting peace don't forget modi is their PM.
India's planning another attack
https://mobile.twitter.com/timesofindia/status/1101134938357800960

see this is why IK should have waited

 

[Realromeo]

You have all the credibility.Right?

Dude common sense, if a F-16 supposedly goes down in POK, pictures and video footages will be out by now. IAF has come out and claimed they shot down a F-16 that was not used and was not allowed to be used. We have a crash that killed 5 members of IAF that no one in India seems to care about. Do you honestly believe an F-16 was brought down ? Doesn't seem like to most sane minded people. Same scenario with SU-30 or Mig-29 whatever Pakistan think they brought down.

 

[the Great Khan]

When did they back track?

saw it on ANI's twitter feed. they were quoting a govt source maybe a spokesperson or something. They are claiming the GOI are now saying they didnt cross the boundary and only attack not military targets while pakistan crossed the boudnary and attacked military targets. Thats a far cry from what was being said a few days ago.

 

[zn426]

It's fake. Pakistan did not even use F-16s over the last couple of days and isn't it convenient how this is the only "evidence" India have about their claim. This is a lie to save face.



Thanks, bud. This looks interesting.

First time we see photos, maybe it's fake but something got shot down. not enough to make a determination either way but looks like PAF lost a plane.

 

[Adijazz1706]

First time we see photos, maybe it's fake but something got shot down. not enough to make a determination either way but looks like PAF lost a plane.

It's a missile that they found, not parts of a plane.

 

[anand99]

I just had to laugh when I read the mig 21 first took flight in 1956. Seriously??? This is what the Indian airforce uses to defend their most dangerous border? It's a miracle that this dude actually shot down an f16 and managed to parachute out of that Flintstone flying piece of junk.

 

[Varun]

I just had to laugh when I read the mig 21 first took flight in 1956. Seriously??? This is what the Indian airforce uses to defend their most dangerous border? It's a miracle that this dude actually shot down an f16 and managed to parachute out of that Flintstone flying piece of junk.

I mean, just look at it. It looks like a kids' engineering project and that it's going to fall apart any second: