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The massive importance of toss in this ICC T20 World Cup!

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Nikhil_cric

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In the Super 12 stage, 9 out of 10 matches have been won by the team winning the toss. The only exception was BD losing to England.
 
Pretty one sided matches so far - win the toss, win the match. IMO this WC so far has been a snooze-fest.
 
As far as today match, or couple of last matches Toss had absolutely no bearing on the outcome
 
Teams who played better cricket on the day won their matches. Toss doesn't get you out for a low score or render you unable to take wickets. Toss is hardly a factor in a 20 over game.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
In the Super 12 stage, 9 out of 10 matches have been won by the team winning the toss. The only exception was BD losing to England.
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Are you saying this because India lost to Pakistan? Btw, Pakistan has won the 3 times out of 11 games in WC games. I am not counting the tied T20 game which was decided on bowl-out.

Maybe Pakistan's record against India would have been better had Pakistan won the toss and batted first in 1992, 1996, 1999 and 2011 World Cup games as Pakistan were not good chasers in 90s and 2011 too.
 
Third Man said:
Nothing should be ever held in the UAE. UAE offers the worst pitches for cricket, and there is basically no crowd unless it's Pakistan vs India.
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There was a good crowd during BD vs Sri Lanka game (from both sides).

Also, Afghanistan seem to have support too.

Basically, Asian sides have good supports.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
In the Super 12 stage, 9 out of 10 matches have been won by the team winning the toss. The only exception was BD losing to England.
Click to expand...

Chasing teams in the Super 12 in T20 World Cup 2021:

Won
Won
Won
Won
Lost (Scotland vs Afghanistan)
Won
Won
Won
Won
Won
 
natkhat-shahzada said:
Are you saying this because India lost to Pakistan? Btw, Pakistan has won the 3 times out of 11 games in WC games. I am not counting the tied T20 game which was decided on bowl-out.

Maybe Pakistan's record against India would have been better had Pakistan won the toss and batted first in 1992, 1996, 1999 and 2011 World Cup games as Pakistan were not good chasers in 90s and 2011 too.
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Pakistan has won what 3 times?
 
Well teams should had taken that into consideration and prepared for the same but we are sure to see same teams lose toss as well so we will know.
 
Question for pakistan fans: can Pakistan's two victories be attributed to the fact that they won the toss ?
 
Nikhil_cric said:
In the Super 12 stage, 9 out of 10 matches have been won by the team winning the toss. The only exception was BD losing to England.
Click to expand...

Yeah the toss is basically deciding the games.

Semi and finals will be decided by the toss unfortunately
 
The toss today made no difference. Aus win because they are a strong team.Sri Lanka dropped Warner,Kumara gave too many runs.Dew was not a factor.Sri Lanka were in a position to put up a big score but they lost too many quick wickets.
 
What is the speciality of UAE that such a thing happens here ?
Did such a pattern take place in IPL , and other matches of Pakistan in UAE as well …

Should they not spray the chemicals …
Or should they start 2 hrs later in the evening then the dew will be there for both the teams
 
Not sure how much the toss has made a difference. With the exception of Pakistan Vs India, the better team has rightly won the game so far in the tournament.
 
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10 match is not a large sample size. With 50-50 odds, 5 games results would have been the same. Rest 5 games may have been simply the case of the better team also winning the toss or a team simply playing better that day.

20-25 games then yeah, we can attach the outcomes mostly with the toss.
 
Toss is a big factor in UAE during this time. In the evening-night games, if there is dew, the team batting second has a huge advantage; It is very hard for the other team to battle the conditions and still win.

In the day games, batting first is a slight advantage as the wicket could slow down as it wears down.

Bottom line: In day games, bat first. In evening-night games, field first.
 
This is what is happening in Dubai stadium

A team should believe in their abilities, launch from the very start, not lose quick wickets, launch in the end with success and end up with score greater than 180, then have a good chance to win.

And I don't think there is any team capable of doing that in this world cup. So best thing to hope is WIN the TOSS and BOWL.

Otherwise the usual, defend a 150ish score, bowl under dew for majority of innings, spinners bowl couple of hitme balls get hit for sixes, and keep wiping the ball and finally LOSE!
 
Toss is making a huge difference.
Pak would still have beaten India despite the toss because Pakistan were too strong last Sunday - the 'force' was with them and they would have scored 200 against that limp Indian bowling and defended it easily. But the NZ match would have been 50-50.

Very clear solution which the organizers are too stupid to make - start all games at 11am otherwise the toss decides the tournament.
 
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win toss ; win games
Dew is a simple indication why teams are going for a chase rather than setting a target

pretty pathetic from ICC, BCCI.. with all the $$ they have , cant even arrange some setup to remove dew for at most 4 hrs.. Dew removal equipment were used by different boards at different times before as well
 
Pretty pathetic from Indian fans to take 5 days to come up with this excuse now...do you think Pakistan or any other teams had a geenie on their side as well...that helped them win the toss too? Maybe the geenie also changed in to 1-2 of their bowlers as well and helped them take lots of wickets too? Opposition batsmen were also stopped from hitting big, which explains the pathetic way Indian and other team's batsmen played while batting first!

Toss is a lottery, if India didn't like that aspect, they should have tried to do something about it a long time ago but wait, till now they were not humiliated like this to come up with such an excuse. I mean, was IPL played on Mars in the last few times, did't Indian players/management knew of this with their past experiences as well? Why didn't they try and get the matches strarted earlier in the day especially since this is winter time and hence not as hot in the morning...plus didn't the whole of the world bow down to the team that brought all of the world's revenue, why couldn't that team do anything here?

Pathetic excuses at best!!!
 
It's in general also in last few years that T20 matches are won by teams batting 2nd. Chasing has been the way to go especially in. T20 cricket unless there is something drastic like bad weather anticipated.
 
At this time of year.....Dew would have been an issue even if the WC was being played in India

Can't do much about it...or maybe start a bit early
 
This is truly a turn off, and a very disappointing fact.

I don’t think there is any other sports where a change in playing conditions could create such a drastic effect on the outcome.

This dew factor is just not fair, and ICC must do something about it.

Playing conditions should be stable in both innings.
 
The world cup should never have moved to UAE in the first place. India is the best place to host cricket and this event ould have been a massive success.

Covid is not an issue now in India with more than 100 Crore vaccinations given. We could have limited entries to fully vaccinated people onky in the stadiums and have this event. The decision to move was taken way too early.

Those saying India will also have dew problem I don't think so. We have played our seasons in winters and dew has never been such a massive factor in India
 
The team that bats first has to basically get 20-25 above par score because of the dew factor.
 
Monsee said:
Pretty pathetic from Indian fans to take 5 days to come up with this excuse now...do you think Pakistan or any other teams had a geenie on their side as well...that helped them win the toss too? Maybe the geenie also changed in to 1-2 of their bowlers as well and helped them take lots of wickets too? Opposition batsmen were also stopped from hitting big, which explains the pathetic way Indian and other team's batsmen played while batting first!

Toss is a lottery, if India didn't like that aspect, they should have tried to do something about it a long time ago but wait, till now they were not humiliated like this to come up with such an excuse. I mean, was IPL played on Mars in the last few times, did't Indian players/management knew of this with their past experiences as well? Why didn't they try and get the matches strarted earlier in the day especially since this is winter time and hence not as hot in the morning...plus didn't the whole of the world bow down to the team that brought all of the world's revenue, why couldn't that team do anything here?

Pathetic excuses at best!!!
Click to expand...

Ok did u care about seeing other thread where I pointed out this fact few days ? Or I can point you to the thread!
 
And our Kohli is king of loosing the tosses. If toss has to decide the match than india will Knockout of this group stage.
 
Chasing has a better chance in T20s anyway because the target is clear. But tough UAE pitches do make it much harder to set a target - could end up under par if you try to aim high.
 
This is also a factor more in T20s. Chasing is always easier in a T20 game as opposed to a 50 over game.

Also in ODIs the dew plays a part only for the last 15-20 overs of the game, which is only a small % of the total game time.
 
From what I have seen in IPL multiple times, even if such a pattern emerges (batting second winning), it disappears in no time only to come back in knock out stages. So if I were to put money, I would say may be from tomorrow onwards teams batting first will start winning more. And anyway until now, there hasn't been any upset, favorite teams are winning baring India-Pak match where India started as favorite. Other that that the teams thar have won until now were the favorites much before the toss.
 
I didn't watch the entire second innings but I guess, there wasn't much of a dew factor, was it?
 
Colorblind Genius said:
I didn't watch the entire second innings but I guess, there wasn't much of a dew factor, was it?
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None at all, commentators mentioned that around the start of Pak innings with the roller and lines being drawn etc.

In fact, BD won the toss, bowled and still could not chase it down...yet, ask Indian fans with their rockstars having massive IPL/UAE experience and yet they decided to bat as well, no one's fault there!

Like they say 'Indian fans phir ro rahay hain'
 
If that's the case then i hope India wins the toss and then get hammered by Williamson and Guptill and lose with the margin of 50+ runs while chasing. That will shut them up nicely because apparently some wounds are still open.
 
Kraetoz said:
If that's the case then i hope India wins the toss and then get hammered by Williamson and Guptill and lose with the margin of 50+ runs while chasing. That will shut them up nicely because apparently some wounds are still open.
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Amen!
 
Didn't seem to be much, if any, dew today when we were batting.

It does seem to be an advantage to field first, especially under lights but it isn't the be all and end all. We are yet to see a side batting first put on a really challenging total of 170/180+. Would like to see how easy it is to chase that down, even with dew.
 
street cricketer said:
The team that bats first has to basically get 20-25 above par score because of the dew factor.
Click to expand...

Dew is not a big factor at all, it wasn’t today and it’s certainly not every game.

A lof the matches have been close but the team batting first just didn’t get enough runs or didn’t bowl well enough when defending their score.

Winning the toss isn’t as important as some are pretending it is.
 
90MPH said:
Dew is not a big factor at all, it wasn’t today and it’s certainly not every game.

A lof the matches have been close but the team batting first just didn’t get enough runs or didn’t bowl well enough when defending their score.

Winning the toss isn’t as important as some are pretending it is.
Click to expand...

Teams batting second are scoring 60 in 10 overs knowing that they can score 80 or 90 to chase scores of 150.
If score is 180 , then chasing teams cannot follow that approach.
 
Have a look at the matches involving the big teams and the favourites won most of the games. The favourites are batting second.

Australia chased vs SA (favourites)
England chased vs WI (favourites)
Sri Lanka chased vs Bangladesh (favourites)
Pakistan chased vs India (underdog)
South Africa chased vs WI (50/50 match)
Pakistan chased vs NZ (favourites)
England chased vs Bangladesh (favourites)
Australia chased vs Sri Lanka (favourites)
Pakistan chased vs Afghanistan (favourites)

7/9 = favourites won

The only time an underdog won was Pakistan vs India.
 
Indian bowling will be exposed again bowling first. Only wickets we will score are run outs and the ones thrown away by the batsmen. All our bowlers are defensive and just bowl to contain the run rate.
 
90MPH said:
Dew is not a big factor at all, it wasn’t today and it’s certainly not every game.

A lof the matches have been close but the team batting first just didn’t get enough runs or didn’t bowl well enough when defending their score.

Winning the toss isn’t as important as some are pretending it is.
Click to expand...

The ratio of games won batting first vs batting second in the second edition of the IPL was 9:22 (9 games won batting first, 22 games won batting second).

In the WT20 so far, it's been 2:10.

It's not the be all end all obviously and a good team can win at all odds, but there does seem to be an advantage in chasing rather than batting first as teams struggle to work out what's a competitive total batting first in the slow nature of the wickets.

Even during the warm up match, Pakistan put up a very good score vs South Africa but SA ended up chasing the total.

This is not to say that Pakistan did not deserve their victory vs India, they thoroughly deserved it. But there does seem to be an advantage batting second in these conditions, given the statistics show us.
 
Not our Indian PPers using this as an excuse after losing to Pakistan 🤢. Yes, we were thrashed by 10 wickets but there’s nothing wrong in accepting the defeat, as Pakistan were better that day. Also we’ve won like 12 times before that (in WCs). Even if we play Pakistan again in this tournament we’re gonna win. But let’s give it to Pakistan when they played well. No, we need to find excuses to satisfy our egos.

We got the best schedule like we wanted (week of gap). Best venue (Dubai). But no, let’s cry about toss rather than accepting we were humiliated and looking forward for the remaining of the tournament
 
Virat Kohli on this topic today:

==

Q. Is toss becoming too big a factor because of the dew around?

VIRAT KOHLI: It will continue to be a big factor. That's the nature of this tournament. You can look at this situation in two ways. Either you can bank too much on the toss or you can challenge yourself as a team to say, okay, even if we lose the toss, we're good enough to bowl or bat in any conditions. And that should be the attitude because you don't have time in the shortest format of the game to think too much about what happened at the toss. The game goes away from you pretty quickly in two or three overs in the whole course of the game, as we saw in the last game as well.

So for us our only focus is how those 11 individuals are placed mentally and how we're looking to approach this game.

It's been a long break for us. It's been a lot of time waiting and just doing nothing, really, for us as a team. Now we're just itching to go back on the park and be competing again and look to correct the things that didn't happen well in the first game.
 
Do you all think Chris woakes is better bowler than hazlewood, starc and Cummins?
Team batting first are really struggling in this tournament and bowlers are more effective because of greater control. So it's double advantage surely.

Situation would have been reverse if Australia won toss. We will know true abilities when england are defending.. for now ride the luck as much as you get
 
I don’t think dew has decided a single evening game in the super 12 stage

No team batting first has batted well enough for toss/dew to come into play

Dew didn’t cause:
India to lose 3 in 5 overs
Afghanistan to lose 4 in PP
NZ to only score 135
Australia to bat like a school team in first innings

Pakistan twice batting second almost lost the game so what dew are we talking about
 
globalcitizen said:
Do you all think Chris woakes is better bowler than hazlewood, starc and Cummins?
Team batting first are really struggling in this tournament and bowlers are more effective because of greater control. So it's double advantage surely.

Situation would have been reverse if Australia won toss. We will know true abilities when england are defending.. for now ride the luck as much as you get
Click to expand...



Yes, but in the Pak vs Afghanistan match commentators did discuss the dew factor (around the start of the second innings) and they stressed that there was no evidence whatsoever of any dew or it's impact on bowling/game. This was something that was also proven by the fact that their bowlers were able to choke Babar and Rizwan throughout the innings and even a dibbly dobbler like Jannat barely gave any runs till Asif took him to the cleaners because he was able to get under the ball and just power it past the shorter boundary.

I bet if the starting teams had scored 175+ or more, we would see a more balanced win ratio for firstvs the second team...till then, every team that lost (and their fans) will use this excuse as a defence, why not!

Even in our last two games, if Asif had not gone berserk both times we would have lost and then this 'advantage due to dew' discussion would have much less gas present to stay afloat
 
UsmanhailsAfridi said:
I don’t think dew has decided a single evening game in the super 12 stage

No team batting first has batted well enough for toss/dew to come into play

Dew didn’t cause:
India to lose 3 in 5 overs
Afghanistan to lose 4 in PP
NZ to only score 135
Australia to bat like a school team in first innings

Pakistan twice batting second almost lost the game so what dew are we talking about
Click to expand...




Mental Dew to cover one's wounds and to blame their team's poor execution to a chance (toss) which no one has control over...aka some usual fans phir ro rahay hain!
 
Monsee said:
Yes, but in the Pak vs Afghanistan match commentators did discuss the dew factor (around the start of the second innings) and they stressed that there was no evidence whatsoever of any dew or it's impact on bowling/game. This was something that was also proven by the fact that their bowlers were able to choke Babar and Rizwan throughout the innings and even a dibbly dobbler like Jannat barely gave any runs till Asif took him to the cleaners because he was able to get under the ball and just power it past the shorter boundary.

I bet if the starting teams had scored 175+ or more, we would see a more balanced win ratio for firstvs the second team...till then, every team that lost (and their fans) will use this excuse as a defence, why not!

Even in our last two games, if Asif had not gone berserk both times we would have lost and then this 'advantage due to dew' discussion would have much less gas present to stay afloat
Click to expand...

We are not just talking about dew. Whether dew was there or not is immaterial

The team bowling first is having greater control and spinners are more effective
Team batting second is nullifying any swing or seam out there. Zampa was good against srilanka bowling first

Yes scoring 175 or above par gives you better chance but as I said there is no team yet capable of doing that against good teams or atleast have not done it yet

If england were so good why did not they pick batting even in one game.
 
UsmanhailsAfridi said:
I don’t think dew has decided a single evening game in the super 12 stage

No team batting first has batted well enough for toss/dew to come into play

Dew didn’t cause:
India to lose 3 in 5 overs
Afghanistan to lose 4 in PP
NZ to only score 135
Australia to bat like a school team in first innings

Pakistan twice batting second almost lost the game so what dew are we talking about
Click to expand...

No one is talking about dew. Read the post I replied to another poster
 
globalcitizen said:
Do you all think Chris woakes is better bowler than hazlewood, starc and Cummins?
Team batting first are really struggling in this tournament and bowlers are more effective because of greater control. So it's double advantage surely.

Situation would have been reverse if Australia won toss. We will know true abilities when england are defending.. for now ride the luck as much as you get
Click to expand...

Chris Woakes is quite comfortably a better new ball bowler than all 3 you mentioned. Infact, Woakes is one of the 3 best new ball bowlers in white ball (along with Boult and Shaheen). That's what matters too, wickets with the new ball.
 
UsmanhailsAfridi said:
Then your issue is with the nature of the format. T20 has always fared teams chasing. In big tournaments when stakes are higher this becomes even more prominent
Click to expand...

Ok so how do you get to chase by winning the toss right? Now go back and read the title and other posts why that is case
 
globalcitizen said:
We are not just talking about dew. Whether dew was there or not is immaterial

The team bowling first is having greater control and spinners are more effective
Team batting second is nullifying any swing or seam out there. Zampa was good against srilanka bowling first

Yes scoring 175 or above par gives you better chance but as I said there is no team yet capable of doing that against good teams or atleast have not done it yet

If england were so good why did not they pick batting even in one game.
Click to expand...



Then India (others in general) having a cow with the toss rule should have thrown their weight around in getting it (toss impact/rule) changed...yet, all they did was get a week of rest (arranged for them) after every game and thought they will just steamroll everyone!

Tough luck, for once rules are not in India's favor...meh!
Welcome to the non-Popcorn world of No IPL:-)
 
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India and Kohli is only team in this world cup to have not won a toss .. lol this world cup is not destined for India.

I think big teams are going to get a heartbreak due to toss going forward. I think some team will get on a toss roll and win world cup.

Good luck to teams
 
Toss is a factor but cant be an excuse for scoring 110 in T20 game

India has no excuse whatsoever
 
sam_ahm said:
The world cup should never have moved to UAE in the first place. India is the best place to host cricket and this event ould have been a massive success.

Covid is not an issue now in India with more than 100 Crore vaccinations given. We could have limited entries to fully vaccinated people onky in the stadiums and have this event. The decision to move was taken way too early.

Those saying India will also have dew problem I don't think so. We have played our seasons in winters and dew has never been such a massive factor in India
Click to expand...

Why do you think this WC is not a success?
 
dildilpak said:
Pretty one sided matches so far - win the toss, win the match. IMO this WC so far has been a snooze-fest.
Click to expand...

YOu didn't enjoy the Pak v NZ/AFG matches which were quite close in the middle overs? Or WI v BD? At least 3 very good games.

But I agree, the idea that winning the toss almost guarantees you a win is crazy but this is not unknown in the UAE. Not much can be done about that.
 
Indian bowlers didn't even get a chance to bowl in the last 5 overs of NZ's innings giving even less credibility to the dew argument.
 
Dreadful place to play a world competition everyone knew if Ind lost the toss they were out of the World Cup.

SA & Eng (rain permitting) are the best places to play a world tournament.
 
I hope England bat first today so we can put this to rest.

As mentioned, it is an advantage but nobody batting first (with the exception of Afghanistan against Scotland and Bangladesh against Sri Lanka) has really put up a challenging total.

Come on, let's see someone bat first and score 175+ - somehow I think it won't be so easy to chase.
 
Afghanistan has won two matches by batting first.The match with Pakistan was very close.Afghan lost due to poor tactics.Afghanistan will choose to bat first against England is another where toss is not any issue.England are capable of scoring 180+ so the team batting second will be under scoreboard pressure.Finally the dew has not been a big factor.The weather is getting cooler so it will not play a major part.The only advantage for team batting second is that it knows the run rate and pace the innings but you still have to put the runs on the board.
 
The way Pakistan bowling (Our Trump card) has become toothless bowling second, it tells it yet again, how awful and unfair is it to play in these conditions where toss could have a such a drastic effect on the game.
 
Toss is no excuse for getting out for 58, 60 or 84 or scoring less than 120. That's just poor batting combined with some good bowling.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Toss is no excuse for getting out for 58, 60 or 84 or scoring less than 120. That's just poor batting combined with some good bowling.
Click to expand...

That's not even the question.
The dew effect on team bowling second is horrible.
It's just not a fair and even contest.

Batting becomes a lot easier in the second innings REGARDLESS of how many runs were scored in the first innings.

If the two teams who are neck to neck equal in skill and talent come face to face, and one gets butchered by the toss? I don't think it's fair competition.
 
Completly agree.

The teams batting second in the semis are 90% sure to win the games.

The toss is deciding these games
 
I think KOs should be played in morning so everyone has equal chance.. now that Indian team is out , our prime time watch doesn’t matter.
 
There was no intensity when Pakistan was bowling because we had scored 190, we were playing Namibia, we were already (pretty much) through to the SF. If we had somehow collapsed, I'm sure we would have defended 140 today.

Bottom line is yes it is an advantage to bowl first but it is not the deciding factor. If you bat first and score 170, you are in with a good chance.
 
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