The mental toll of working from home

[Donal Cozzie]

I'm somewhat conflicted on this tbh.

For background I'm early-mid twenties in a grad accounting role at a Big Four firm. Honestly, I don't mind it.

I'm not a morning person, so being able to get up at precisely 9 and even then take a bit of extra time in the mornings to get ready is a big help. Also no goddamn commuting. I don't even live far from my office and I still despised commuting in and out of work. Hours of life every week lost to traffic.

That said my office also serves as my bedroom, and I can absolutely imagine in Winter and spring when busy season hits this will take a severe psychological toll as you spend 22 plus hours a day every day for weeks and months in a single room working working working and sleeping.

Then again, I've already done long hours over the past six months working from home and I'd still say its been a net benefit. Even from a health perspective, never in a million years would I prepare lunch in the office, I'd either bring it in or buy out, but I don't mind taking time at home to prepare a lunch. Anyone else similar?

I dont know, a hybrid be ideal, 1-2 days a week in office and the rest at home. But depends on the individual or circumstance. I do feel immense pity for people with broken home environments, for many I'm sure offices were an escape of sorts.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

I suppose also working from home allows for me down time when you know nobody is watching you

 

[JaDed]

I think it will happen as tech makes going to the office useless and expensive, the only problem is the effect it will have on the hospitality sector, as now both pm johnson and mayor khan are concerned about the lunch time trade being hit in the city, ofcourse that business doesnt just evaporate, it just changes to local businesses as you order from nearby home, but they wont want the city to be hit too hard.

Also wework didnt fail because of coworking, they failed because of other shady deals they were doing outside of coworking and wanting to expand in other areas, other coworking companies are doing well.

Yes I meant WeWork failed but didn’t mean it failed coz its mode but just generally.

In States apparently 75% of economy is consumer based and that will be hit hard but city based offices isn’t a thing except NYC and Chicago.. so they should survive with their suburban office economy..

 

[Slog]

Remote desktop..

we got this thing called docking station which the laptop connects to and then u can connect that to multiple screens. makes life easier. is it same thing?

 

[Slog]

I'm somewhat conflicted on this tbh.

For background I'm early-mid twenties in a grad accounting role at a Big Four firm. Honestly, I don't mind it.

I'm not a morning person, so being able to get up at precisely 9 and even then take a bit of extra time in the mornings to get ready is a big help. Also no goddamn commuting. I don't even live far from my office and I still despised commuting in and out of work. Hours of life every week lost to traffic.

That said my office also serves as my bedroom, and I can absolutely imagine in Winter and spring when busy season hits this will take a severe psychological toll as you spend 22 plus hours a day every day for weeks and months in a single room working working working and sleeping.

Then again, I've already done long hours over the past six months working from home and I'd still say its been a net benefit. Even from a health perspective, never in a million years would I prepare lunch in the office, I'd either bring it in or buy out, but I don't mind taking time at home to prepare a lunch. Anyone else similar?

I dont know, a hybrid be ideal, 1-2 days a week in office and the rest at home. But depends on the individual or circumstance. I do feel immense pity for people with broken home environments, for many I'm sure offices were an escape of sorts.

Yea and also people with kids would be finding it to be bit of a struggle?

Do you not miss the socializing aspect of the job?

For example I started a new job in June and I literally don’t know any of my coworkers beyond name. Some I won’t be able to even recognize on the street I’m sure

 

[JaDed]

we got this thing called docking station which the laptop connects to and then u can connect that to multiple screens. makes life easier. is it same thing?

Yup, I had it in my ofc, just got one for home.. and two screens as i think this will last longer than Dec..

 

[JaDed]

I suppose also working from home allows for me down time when you know nobody is watching you

Yea don't get too comfortable with that (esp if you have a company laptop)

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/13/854014403/your-boss-is-watching-you-work-from-home-boom-leads-to-more-surveillance

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes I meant WeWork failed but didn’t mean it failed coz its mode but just generally.

Ended my WeWork contract last month. I was among their first customers and we had free beer after 4 pm, plus lots of food. It was easier to hire workers when I showed them my office. They would say it is the first workplace where they actually looked forward to coming on a Monday.

 

[JaDed]

Ended my WeWork contract last month. I was among their first customers and we had free beer after 4 pm, plus lots of food. It was easier to hire workers when I showed them my office. They would say it is the first workplace where they actually looked forward to coming on a Monday.

Nice.. that model will skyrocket hopefully .. esp in India where offices are so far.. lets see who gets into it.

Security will be a thing though, esp with actual production data of people.

I think Cognizant has done something similar in Chennai(unknowingly).

weren’t you doing something related to Law? Also did you end the contract coz WFH?

 

[ElRaja]

I'm not a morning person, so being able to get up at precisely 9 and even then take a bit of extra time in the mornings to get ready is a big help. Also no goddamn commuting. I don't even live far from my office and I still despised commuting in and out of work. Hours of life every week lost to traffic.

That said my office also serves as my bedroom, and I can absolutely imagine in Winter and spring when busy season hits this will take a severe psychological toll as you spend 22 plus hours a day every day for weeks and months in a single room working working working and sleeping.

I dont know, a hybrid be ideal, 1-2 days a week in office and the rest at home. But depends on the individual or circumstance. I do feel immense pity for people with broken home environments, for many I'm sure offices were an escape of sorts.

im actually the opposite, my ideal working day would be from 730 to 330, i used to love coming into the office early morning when no one was around, getting a load of work done, than being able to "pace" myself after lunch.

i made sure i dont make my home office my bedroom, ive heard alot of stuff abt the subconscious effects of working / watching screens in the room u r meant to sleep in. to each their own, but i would hate to wake up in the room im gonna work, i set everything up in the dining room.

but yes, agree with the final point, i kinda moved to that kinda schedule after lockdown was over, however i still find my productivity at work exponentially higher than at home. maybe thats just me.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Nice.. that model will skyrocket hopefully .. esp in India where offices are so far.. lets see who gets into it.

Security will be a thing though, esp with actual production data of people.

I think Cognizant has done something similar in Chennai(unknowingly).

weren’t you doing something related to Law? Also did you end the contract coz WFH?

The WeWork where I had leased space was the most expensive in india. Their model is not based on cheap prices, but providing premium services..somehow even their staff seems to be picked based on their good looks and impeccable english accent. I assist law enforcement in some projects but a private player. when I shifted to chennai, we helped bust a child porn racket. Somehow it didn't hit headlines.

 

[JaDed]

The WeWork where I had leased space was the most expensive in india. Their model is not based on cheap prices, but providing premium services..somehow even their staff seems to be picked based on their good looks and impeccable english accent. I assist law enforcement in some projects but a private player. when I shifted to chennai, we helped bust a child porn racket. Somehow it didn't hit headlines.

Thanks for the info, very interesting.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Yea don't get too comfortable with that (esp if you have a company laptop)

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/13/854014403/your-boss-is-watching-you-work-from-home-boom-leads-to-more-surveillance

Lol. We use Skype for Business so everyone can see our status and no activity for a set number of minutes set it to "away" so there is some monitoring, but my job contains a tonne of managerial review anyway so it'd be obvious if I were slacking or not working.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

im actually the opposite, my ideal working day would be from 730 to 330, i used to love coming into the office early morning when no one was around, getting a load of work done, than being able to "pace" myself after lunch.

i made sure i dont make my home office my bedroom, ive heard alot of stuff abt the subconscious effects of working / watching screens in the room u r meant to sleep in. to each their own, but i would hate to wake up in the room im gonna work, i set everything up in the dining room.

but yes, agree with the final point, i kinda moved to that kinda schedule after lockdown was over, however i still find my productivity at work exponentially higher than at home. maybe thats just me.

FWIW I'm somewhat similar. I worked stock handling jobs in college which necessitated 7am starts and there's no better feeling than leaving work at 2-3pm knowing your day is done and you've the whole evening ahead, plus its still sunny.

That was a basic job though, if I started working 7am in my job it'd just mean I'd end up with more overtime on top of what I already have lol.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Yea and also people with kids would be finding it to be bit of a struggle?

Do you not miss the socializing aspect of the job?

For example I started a new job in June and I literally don’t know any of my coworkers beyond name. Some I won’t be able to even recognize on the street I’m sure

i do for sure but, our socialising is typically through social post work events i.e pints down the pub. WFH or not thats not possible at the moment and wouldnt really change things. Of course office chats are a ket component too but, idk I'm a bit of a mish mash between intro and extroverted. I enjoy socialising but at the same time have no issue spending long stretches of time alone.

 

[MenInG]

"It is now safe to go back" to work, a cabinet minister has told Sky News as the government prepares a push to get people to return to the office.

In new adverts next week, government messages will emphasise the benefits of employees returning to workplaces, as well as encouraging businesses to make their offices COVID-secure.

:: Follow live coverage of the latest coronavirus news and updates

It comes after the UK reported its highest daily number of new coronavirus cases since 12 June, with 1,522 people receiving a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test on Thursday.

A man walks through a deserted Bank junction in the City of London as the UK continues in lockdown to help curb the spread of the coronavirus.

Speaking to Sky News on Friday, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said: "What we're saying to people is it is now safe to go back.

"Your employer should have made arrangements which are appropriate to make sure it is coronavirus-safe to work.

"You will see some changes, if you haven't been in for a bit, as a result."

Nearly half of workers did some work from home during the coronavirus lockdown.

But Mr Shapps said there was a "limit" to the use of video-conferencing software, such as Zoom, in being able to get "some types of work done".

"Clearly there are things you can't just do remotely, and a lot of those people have carried on working," he added.

"But for the rest of us, also, you just miss out on that human spark when you're not with people.

"You will find the office has been reorganised into a coronavirus-avoidance friendly environment and probably a few changes as a result."

Labour have called on the government to condemn reports that those who continue to work from home could be more vulnerable to being sacked.

The Daily Telegraph quoted a government source as describing working from home as "not the benign option it seems".

"Suddenly the word 'restructure' is bandied about and people who have been working from home find themselves in the most vulnerable position," the source was quoted as adding.

Downing Street has distanced itself from those reports and Mr Shapps called for "common sense" between employers and employees on the return to workplaces.

"We're absolutely clear that employers and employees need to work together to resolve this," he said.

"There are, of course, a whole host of employee protections in place.

"If employees have concerns about the workplace, for example, the Health and Safety Executive, the local authority, will be the right places to go.

"The vast majority of employers just want to get their businesses back up and running, they want to do the right thing."

The new adverts will be in a similar format to previous government information campaigns such as the "stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives" media push.

The move represents a bolstering of Prime Minister Boris Johnson's "back to work" message and puts Downing Street at odds with devolved governments around the UK.

In guidance published earlier this week, the Scottish government said that remote working "should remain the default position for those who can".

A Welsh government spokesperson said: "In Wales, we continue to advise people to work from home where possible.

"We recognise, however, that there will be situations where there is a pressing organisational need for employers to ask staff to return to an office or where employees feel working from home is impairing their well-being.

"Employers are under a duty to take all reasonable measures to minimise the spread of coronavirus, which will include ensuring they do not require staff to return to workplaces in the absence of a clearly demonstrated business need."

Figures compiled for Sky News revealed that worker footfall in Britain's cities was just 17% of pre-lockdown levels in the first two weeks of August.

Office attendance flatlined despite the government abandoning its "work from home" guidance on 1 August and Mr Johnson personally urging staff to return.

A survey of businesses by the Office for National Statistics showed that, between 27 July to 9 August, 42% were working at their normal place of work.

This compared to 39% working remotely instead of at their normal place of work.

Dame Carolyn Fairbairn, the director-general of the Confederation of British Industry, has warned the UK's city centres will continue to be "ghost towns" without the return of workers to offices.

"The UK's offices are vital drivers of our economy," she said.

"They support thousands of local firms, from dry cleaners to sandwich bars. They help train and develop young people.

"And they foster better work and productivity for many kinds of business."

Dame Carolyn is calling for a "hybrid" approach of encouraging both home working and office working to "get the best of both worlds".

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...ising-to-encourage-return-to-offices-12058176

 

[MenInG]

Microsoft has told staff that they will have the option of working from home permanently with manager approval.

The move mimics the US tech giant's rivals Facebook and Twitter, which have also said remote work would be a permanent option.

It follows a rapid shift away from office working prompted by the coronavirus pandemic.

Many companies are reconsidering how much office space they need, expecting a long-term increase in remote staff.

Microsoft said some roles will continue to require an in-person presence, such as those needing access to hardware, the firm added. But many staff will also be able to work from home part-time, without needing formal approval from their managers.

"Our goal is to evolve the way we work over time with intention—guided by employee input, data, and our commitment to support individual work styles and business needs while living our culture," a Microsoft spokesperson said of the new guidance, which she said would apply to UK staff as well.

'Extremely unusual'
As of April, more than 46% of those employed were doing some work from home, according to the Office of National Statistics.

That was comparable to the US, where 42% of the workforce was remote in May, according to Stanford University economics professor Nicholas Bloom, whose research looked at people aged 20-64, earning more than $10,000 last year.

While that share decreased to about 35% in August, it still marked a major change. Before the pandemic, just 2% of workers were remote full time, he said.

"What we're doing now is extremely unusual," he said.

Permanent shift
Many employers hailed the shift initially as being surprisingly productive. But as the months have passed, some of the drawbacks have emerged.

For example, at a conference this month, Microsoft's own chief executive Satya Nadella said the lack of division between private life and work life meant "it sometimes feels like you are sleeping at work".

As companies look beyond the pandemic, Prof Bloom said many are eyeing policies that combine two days a week at home with three days of office time, which will remain important for meetings, building company culture and loyalty and basic mental health.

"The radical extremes - so, full-time in the office or full-time at home - are not ideal for most people," said Prof Bloom.

But he said he did not expect the pre-pandemic office to return.

"The Microsoft statement is completely in line with everything I've been hearing," he said. "There's pretty much uniform consensus now that the pandemic has permanently shifted the way we work."

A Willis Towers Watson survey of US employers in May found that they expected 22% of staff to continue working from home after the pandemic, up from just 7% in 2019.

About 55% of employers said they expected staff to work from home at least one day a week after concerns about the virus passes, a PWC survey found. And more than 80% of employees said they supported that idea.

Analysts say such a shift could have widespread implications, reducing demand for office and residential properties in expensive city centres. Rents in New York and San Francisco have already dropped.

Prof Bloom said the changes in the workplace may help ease affordability issues, but won't spell the end of city centres.

"The affordability levels of New York and San Francisco may go back to where they were in 2005," he said. "It's clearly not the case they're going to empty out."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54482245

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Microsoft has told staff that they will have the option of working from home permanently with manager approval.

The move mimics the US tech giant's rivals Facebook and Twitter, which have also said remote work would be a permanent option.

It follows a rapid shift away from office working prompted by the coronavirus pandemic.

Many companies are reconsidering how much office space they need, expecting a long-term increase in remote staff.

Microsoft said some roles will continue to require an in-person presence, such as those needing access to hardware, the firm added. But many staff will also be able to work from home part-time, without needing formal approval from their managers.

"Our goal is to evolve the way we work over time with intention—guided by employee input, data, and our commitment to support individual work styles and business needs while living our culture," a Microsoft spokesperson said of the new guidance, which she said would apply to UK staff as well.

'Extremely unusual'
As of April, more than 46% of those employed were doing some work from home, according to the Office of National Statistics.

That was comparable to the US, where 42% of the workforce was remote in May, according to Stanford University economics professor Nicholas Bloom, whose research looked at people aged 20-64, earning more than $10,000 last year.

While that share decreased to about 35% in August, it still marked a major change. Before the pandemic, just 2% of workers were remote full time, he said.

"What we're doing now is extremely unusual," he said.

Permanent shift
Many employers hailed the shift initially as being surprisingly productive. But as the months have passed, some of the drawbacks have emerged.

For example, at a conference this month, Microsoft's own chief executive Satya Nadella said the lack of division between private life and work life meant "it sometimes feels like you are sleeping at work".

As companies look beyond the pandemic, Prof Bloom said many are eyeing policies that combine two days a week at home with three days of office time, which will remain important for meetings, building company culture and loyalty and basic mental health.

"The radical extremes - so, full-time in the office or full-time at home - are not ideal for most people," said Prof Bloom.

But he said he did not expect the pre-pandemic office to return.

"The Microsoft statement is completely in line with everything I've been hearing," he said. "There's pretty much uniform consensus now that the pandemic has permanently shifted the way we work."

A Willis Towers Watson survey of US employers in May found that they expected 22% of staff to continue working from home after the pandemic, up from just 7% in 2019.

About 55% of employers said they expected staff to work from home at least one day a week after concerns about the virus passes, a PWC survey found. And more than 80% of employees said they supported that idea.

Analysts say such a shift could have widespread implications, reducing demand for office and residential properties in expensive city centres. Rents in New York and San Francisco have already dropped.

Prof Bloom said the changes in the workplace may help ease affordability issues, but won't spell the end of city centres.

"The affordability levels of New York and San Francisco may go back to where they were in 2005," he said. "It's clearly not the case they're going to empty out."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54482245

Impossible to imagine how we can return .... Be a massive shock to the system and the irony being productivity will go down with en masse returns

 

[MenInG]

So how are people adjusting to going back to work?

 

[James]

At first I found working from home quite odd on a mental level. My employer had also never done it before en masse, which led to a number of teething problems and technical frustrations.

It was then really personally challenging for a while in the full lockdowns, because my daughter's daycare closed down just as she was entering "the terrible twos", and therefore getting anything done in adult world beyond the bare minimum became close to impossible. My wife was working from home full time as well, so the whole thing was basically a nightmare.

I must say that I have adjusted to WFH now. My daughter has gone to a new nursery school and the company I work for has an established, relaxed homeworking model. I also do one voluntary day per week in the office, which I look forward to because I can get some exercise in and really break up the week.

I would now quite happily continue like this for the foreseeable tbh.

 

[ElRaja]

funny to read my OP as its interesting to have a record of how i felt so soon after lockdown started.

one thing hasn't changed, i really dislike the idea of living and working in the same space. get this sense of work always being around the corner in a physical sense.

on the other hand i just cant see how the benefits of office life can outweigh 2.5 hours on rush hour public transport a day.

biggest benefit of getting out the house is change of scenery. with certain situations with family members it just seems like there was no release valve.

we returned to theoretically 50% split, which works fine for me.

 

[OMB]

Beginning of the end of WFH: Wipro, HDFC, Axis Bank get ready to work with 100% staff at office

While some of the corporates have started operations at pre-Covid levels, others are seeking to get more employees to office.

New Delhi: As the number of Covid infections plummets and companies complete vaccination drive, India Inc is actively working on returning to the formal workplace — albeit with a staggered roster. Companies like Procter & Gamble, Wipro, HDFC, Axis Bank, Yes Bank and Deloitte are among the top corporates getting ready to re-open their offices within the next couple of months, the Economic Times mentioned in a report.

While some of the corporates have started operations at pre-Covid levels, others are seeking to get more employees to office. The financial pack — banks, NBFCs and fintech companies — are at the vanguard of the move.

“As on date, all our offices are working at 100% manpower in line with the directives issued by the respective state governments. We have allowed expectant mothers, female employees with children below 1 year of age, employees above 65 years of age, employees with co-morbidities and employees coming from any containment zones as defined by the authorities to continue to work from home,” the financial daily quoted as saying Renu Sud Karnad, managing director, HDFC.

Kotak Mahindra Bank expects that 90% of the employees, who are fully vaccinated, will be back to office by November/December.

“In branches and other customerfacing roles, we are close to reaching 100% levels,” the publication quoted as saying Sukhjit Pasricha, president & group chief human resource officer, Kotak Mahindra Bank. Some corporations have even created sub-groups, sought online applications and roped in external professionals to assess risks and encourage more employees to start coming to offices. Take, for instance, the case of P&G. The multinational has introduced a hybrid model customised for each working group.

“Every workgroup is piloting a hybrid model suited for it. It's up to them how they manage their well-being, work and personal priorities and how they continue to improve their productivity to maximise their impact on their growth and work,” said PM Srinivas, head, human resources, P&G, Indian sub-continent.

Most companies are experimenting with the return-to-workplace policies as the danger of a third wave still lurks and many employees are still not completely convinced about safety.

“The popular pulse certainly favours hybrid working so that people can benefit from both, the flexibility and comfort of working from home and the human connect of coming to the office — this is something that is being deeply examined to allow for flexibility, client deliverables and social connect as that engenders collaboration and innovation,” said SV Nathan, partner and chief talent officer, Deloitte India. Many companies have asked their top management and regional leaders to start attending office regularly to encourage other employees to return to office.

“Beginning September 13, fully vaccinated employees in leadership roles have returned to work from offices in India, twice a week (Mondays and Thursdays),” a Wipro spokesperson said.

https://www.timesnownews.com/business-economy/companies/article/beginning-of-the-end-of-wfh-wipro-hdfc-axis-bank-get-ready-to-work-with-100-staff-at-office/817684

 

[MenInG]

The COVID-19 pandemic has already changed how millions of Americans do their jobs. Now it may change how many days a week Americans do their jobs.

LISBON, Portugal -- Ever had a persistent boss who won't stop messaging you once you've left work or logged off? In Portugal, that behavior is now illegal.

The country recently introduced a law that bans employers from contacting workers outside of their regular hours by phone, message or email.

"The employer must respect the privacy of the worker," including periods of rest and family time, the new law stipulates. Any violation, it continues, constitutes a "serious" offense and could result in a fine.

A similar rule gave French workers the right to ignore after-hours business emails in 2017.

Some employers are using a technology that can track keystrokes and web browsing of work from home employees.

Portugal's new policy is part of legislation that regulates working from home. Employees now have the right to opt-out of remote work should they so wish - but they can also request the arrangement if it's compatible with their job.

The measure also stipulates that employers are responsible for providing workers with the appropriate tools to do their jobs remotely. They should reimburse workers for any additional expenses, including any increase in bills such as electricity and gas, they might incur while working from home.

The law was passed by the Portuguese parliament last Friday and came into effect the following day.

Portugal has been led by a socialist government for six years, though Prime Minister Antonio Costa could be pushed out of power early next year. The country's president recently called a snap election for late January amid a standoff over the budget.

The capital, Lisbon, has worked hard to appeal to digital nomads who want to take advantage of remote work to temporarily relocate or travel outside their home country.

The practice became more common during the pandemic. Research firm Gartner estimates that remote workers will represent 32% of the global workforce by the end of 2021, compared to 17% in 2019.

https://abc7news.com/portugal-illegal-text-after-work-life-balance-boss-working-from-home/11232267/

 

[Robert]

My dear friend cracked up due to working from home, plus divorce, plus pandemic isolation, plus losing her mother to COVID.

She has been in a psychiatric ward for the last four months.

 

[MenInG]

My dear friend cracked up due to working from home, plus divorce, plus pandemic isolation, plus losing her mother to COVID.

She has been in a psychiatric ward for the last four months.

Devastating!

Hope she is getting the right help and recovers from this.

 

[Robert]

Devastating!

Hope she is getting the right help and recovers from this.

It’s horrific.

Thanks for the kind words.

 

[ElRaja]

My dear friend cracked up due to working from home, plus divorce, plus pandemic isolation, plus losing her mother to COVID.

She has been in a psychiatric ward for the last four months.

thats terrible, hope she recovers.

 

[James]

awful.

 

[Robert]

awful.

At some point her employer will stop paying salary. Then she will be unable to service her mortgage. Even if she is well enough to be released, I cannot see her returning to that role.

She will likely be homeless.

There is nothing I can do about it.