The murderous regime of Mughals for Sikhs and Hindus : A History of Bloodshed and Resistance

[hoshiarpurexpress]

The Mughal Empire, often celebrated by Muslims of subcontinent for its grand architecture and administrative brilliance, always had a darker legacy—one marked by violent persecution, especially against Sikhs and Hindus. While early emperors like Akbar promoted relative religious tolerance, others, particularly Jahangir, Aurangzeb, and Bahadur Shah I, unleashed a wave of brutality that left deep scars on India's religious communities.


One of the first major acts of religious oppression came under Emperor Jahangir, who ordered the execution of Guru Arjan Dev Ji, the fifth Sikh Guru, in 1606. Guru Arjan was tortured for days and eventually killed for supporting rebel prince Khusrau and for his growing influence. This incident marked the beginning of open hostility between the Mughal state and the Sikh community.


Under Aurangzeb, this persecution became widespread and systemic. A staunch Islamic ruler, Aurangzeb saw the growing Sikh and Hindu resistance as both political defiance and religious heresy. In 1675, Guru Tegh Bahadur, the ninth Sikh Guru, was publicly executed in Delhi for defending the religious freedom of Hindus, particularly Kashmiri Pandits, who were being forcibly converted to Islam. His death was a turning point, sparking Sikh militarization under his son, Guru Gobind Singh, who founded the Khalsa in 1699 as a direct response to Mughal tyranny.


Hindus also faced relentless persecution under Aurangzeb. He reimposed the jizya tax on non-Muslims, which had been abolished by Akbar, and ordered the destruction of hundreds of Hindu temples, including the sacred Kashi Vishwanath temple in Varanasi and the Keshava Deo temple in Mathura. Hindu religious practices were often curtailed, and resistance by Rajputs, Marathas, and other Hindu kingdoms was met with brutal military campaigns.


The oppression did not end with Aurangzeb’s death. Under Bahadur Shah I and later Mughal governors, both Sikhs and Hindus continued to face executions, forced conversions, and state-sponsored violence. In 1716, Banda Singh Bahadur, a fierce Sikh general, was captured and tortured to death along with his followers. His son was murdered before his eyes, and Banda was executed in Delhi in a brutal public display meant to crush the Sikh spirit.


Despite these horrors, the Mughal campaign of religious persecution failed. The Sikh community emerged stronger, eventually establishing the Sikh Empire under Maharaja Ranjit Singh, while Hindu powers like the Marathas rose to challenge Mughal dominance across India.

 

[ChennaiFan]

Well written post @hoshiarpurexpress
The atrocities by these kings in the name of religion were nothing but barbaric. I am glad we have democracy now.

 

[Romali_rotti]

@hoshiarpurexpress good thread brother...

Not only did the Mughals cause mayhem, atrocities and destruction, look at impact of the Mughals in Pakistan, Bangladesh predominantly, 2 countries that are totally doomed till the end of time....

Unfortunately Bharat will always remain a 3rd world country due to its high population, but it will keep progressing thanks to the majority Hindu population working as best as they can ( challenges will be there ) with all other minorities with most large challenges and problems coming from the muslim minority.....

 

[sweep_shot]

Contributions of Mughal Empire (from ChatGPT):​

Architecture & Art

• Architectural Marvels: The Mughals are known for their iconic architecture, blending Persian, Islamic, and Indian styles. Famous examples include:
  
  • Taj Mahal (Agra)
  • Red Fort (Delhi and Agra)
  • Humayun’s Tomb
  • Fatehpur Sikri
• Miniature Paintings: Mughal miniature paintings flourished, depicting court life, battles, and mythology with exquisite detail.

---

Administration & Governance​

• Centralized Administration: The Mughals established a strong, centralized bureaucracy with a standardized system of revenue collection and land assessment (notably under Akbar).
• Mansabdari System: A unique administrative system where officials (mansabdars) were ranked and paid based on military and civil service roles.
• Judicial Reforms: Mughal rulers like Akbar introduced more secular and just practices in courts.

---

Agriculture & Economy​

• Land Revenue System: The Zabt system, introduced under Akbar and developed by Raja Todar Mal, was more systematic and fair.
• Trade Flourishment: The empire promoted internal and external trade. India became a hub for spices, textiles, and luxury goods, attracting traders from Europe and Asia.
• Infrastructure Development: Roads, serais (rest houses), and irrigation systems were improved to boost agriculture and trade.

---

Language & Literature​

• Persian Culture: Persian became the official court language and led to a literary golden age.
• Multilingualism: The Mughals also contributed to the growth of Urdu, a blend of Persian, Arabic, and local Indian languages.
• Translation Projects: Hindu texts like the Mahabharata and Ramayana were translated into Persian under Akbar’s patronage.

---

Craftsmanship & Industry​

• Textile Industry: Mughal India was known for its high-quality cotton, silk, and muslin.
• Jewelry & Metalwork: Patronage of intricate jewelry designs and metal arts (like bidriware) flourished.

 

[sweep_shot]

Instead of learning about Mughal history from BJP WhatsApp University, you should learn it from proper and authentic sources.

There would probably be no India (as you know it) without the Mughals and Sultanates. Before them, India was an irrelevant place and divided into many small kingdoms.

 

[sweep_shot]

Anyway, there is already a thread about Mughals. Maybe moderators can merge it with the original thread.

Original thread: Mughal Empire Appreciation Thread - Positive Contributions of Mughals in Indian Subcontinent.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Instead of learning about Mughal history from BJP WhatsApp University, you should learn it from proper and authentic sources.

There would probably be no India (as you know it) without the Mughals and Sultanates. Before them, India was an irrelevant place and divided into many small kingdoms.

May be you should read a bit about Sikh history.
Refute any of the facts listed in my post and come back. All of the things in the post are factual and part of Sikh history.

 

[sweep_shot]

Posting a poem written by ChatGPT regarding Mughal Empire


Glorious Mughal Empire

In dawn's embrace, a kingdom rose,
Where rivers sang and jasmine grows,
A tapestry of silk and fire—
The jewel of East: the Mughal Empire.

From Babur’s dreams, fierce skies he crossed,
Through blood and blade, no inch was lost.
In Hindustan, he laid the stone,
A dynasty of might well known.

Humayun stumbled, stars grew dim,
But fate returned its light to him.
With Persian grace and mystic art,
He carved new strength into its heart.

Then Akbar came, the empire’s flame,
A king of vision, not just name.
He bridged the chasm, broke the wall,
And brought one law to rule them all.

The Red Fort rose, in sandstone pride,
Where emperors watched the Yamuna glide.
Miniatures bloomed with every brush,
As courtly halls would hum and hush.

Jahangir ruled with artist’s eye,
His gardens kissed the sapphire sky.
While Noor Jahan, with wit and grace,
Held power’s reins in silken lace.

Then Shah Jahan, in marble dreams,
Built Taj Mahal on moonlit streams.
A love so vast, a grief so pure,
Its beauty crafted to endure.

Aurangzeb, stern and cold as steel,
Expanded far with zeal and zeal.
Yet shadows stretched as dynasties do,
When storms outpace the morning dew.

But oh! what glory once unfurled,
A world within a single world.
Where mystics wrote in scented air,
And emperors knelt in twilight prayer.

Though time may fade its golden hue,
Its legacy still shines on through—
In domes that rise and verses sung,
The empire lives in every tongue.

A thousand tales in every stone,
The Mughal Empire—great, well-known.
Not just of conquest, blood, or gold,
But beauty, wisdom, fierce and bold.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Posting a poem written by ChatGPT regarding Mughal Empire


Glorious Mughal Empire

In dawn's embrace, a kingdom rose,
Where rivers sang and jasmine grows,
A tapestry of silk and fire—
The jewel of East: the Mughal Empire.

From Babur’s dreams, fierce skies he crossed,
Through blood and blade, no inch was lost.
In Hindustan, he laid the stone,
A dynasty of might well known.

Humayun stumbled, stars grew dim,
But fate returned its light to him.
With Persian grace and mystic art,
He carved new strength into its heart.

Then Akbar came, the empire’s flame,
A king of vision, not just name.
He bridged the chasm, broke the wall,
And brought one law to rule them all.

The Red Fort rose, in sandstone pride,
Where emperors watched the Yamuna glide.
Miniatures bloomed with every brush,
As courtly halls would hum and hush.

Jahangir ruled with artist’s eye,
His gardens kissed the sapphire sky.
While Noor Jahan, with wit and grace,
Held power’s reins in silken lace.

Then Shah Jahan, in marble dreams,
Built Taj Mahal on moonlit streams.
A love so vast, a grief so pure,
Its beauty crafted to endure.

Aurangzeb, stern and cold as steel,
Expanded far with zeal and zeal.
Yet shadows stretched as dynasties do,
When storms outpace the morning dew.

But oh! what glory once unfurled,
A world within a single world.
Where mystics wrote in scented air,
And emperors knelt in twilight prayer.

Though time may fade its golden hue,
Its legacy still shines on through—
In domes that rise and verses sung,
The empire lives in every tongue.

A thousand tales in every stone,
The Mughal Empire—great, well-known.
Not just of conquest, blood, or gold,
But beauty, wisdom, fierce and bold.

A Claude AI poem on the barbarism of Musalman Mughals :​

“Scars of Empire”​

Beneath the domes of marble white,
Where minarets pierced through sacred night,
The cries of silenced souls arose,
In blood-soaked earth where history froze.


A Guru chained by tyrant's hand,
On blazing sheets, he made his stand.
For faith, for truth, he bore the flame,
And left the world with holy name.


The temples fell, their spires crushed,
The prayers of millions forced to hush.
The Vishwanath to dust was torn,
As hearts in silence grieved and mourned.


Tegh Bahadur, a lion heart,
Refused to let the light depart.
For those not of his creed or kin,
He stood, and bore the blades of sin.


They took his head—but not his cause,
For in his death, the Khalsa rose.
From ashes, swords of justice grew,
In steel and spirit, brave and true.


The child before his father's eyes,
Was slaughtered where the vulture flies.
Banda Singh in iron bound,
But faith like his can’t be unground.


The tyrants sought to break the soul,
To shatter dreams, to seize control—
But pain became the people's fire,
And every wound—resistance's lyre.


From tortured roots the tree arose,
The empire fell, as freedom grows.
The Maratha’s roar, the Khalsa’s cry,
Would echo long after kings die.


So tell the tale, not just of stone,
Of domes and thrones and gilded tone.
But also sing of those who bled,
Who rose with chains around their head.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

They took his head—but not his cause, Such a powerful thought and applies in modern times also.
Mughals cut the head of our Gurus, but cannot kill our spirit.

 

[uppercut]

They took his head—but not his cause, Such a powerful thought and applies in modern times also.
Mughals cut the head of our Gurus, but cannot kill our spirit.

As I have said before most Hindus remain utterly grateful for all the Sikh gurus and warriors . Without them we would be one big Pakistan today !!

Thank you for creating one of the most valuable threads.

 

[sweep_shot]

Modern day India happened due to Sultanates and Mughals. Without them, there probably would be no India. Without them, Hoshiarpurexpress would probably be writing from a small landlocked kingdom called "Kingdom of Hoshiarpur".

Mughals ruled during the medieval period. You shouldn't judge them through the lense of modern times. Norms were different back then.

Mughals didn't oppress or loot from subcontinent. They kept subcontinent unified and enriched it.

As far as I am concerned, Indian national anthem should be modified and Mughals should be acknowledged in the anthem.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

As I have said before most Hindus remain utterly grateful for all the Sikh gurus and warriors . Without them we would be one big Pakistan today !!

Thank you for creating one of the most valuable threads.

We are in it together. And most of the Hindus are grateful and we pray together in our Gurudwaras and temples.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Modern day India happened due to Sultanates and Mughals. Without them, there probably would be no India. Without them, Hoshiarpurexpress would probably be writing from a small landlocked kingdom called "Kingdom of Hoshiarpur".

Mughals ruled during the medieval period. You shouldn't judge them through the lense of modern times. Norms were different back then.

Mughals didn't oppress or loot from subcontinent. They kept subcontinent unified and enriched it.

As far as I am concerned, Indian national anthem should be modified and Mughals should be acknowledged in the anthem.

Modern or old times... This is the reality of Mughals.. Cutting heads of people in the name of religion..

 

[uppercut]

Mughals ruled during the medieval period. You shouldn't judge them through the lense of modern times. Norms were different back then.

Mughals didn't oppress or loot from subcontinent. They kept subcontinent unified and enriched it.

As far as I am concerned, Indian national anthem should be modified and Mughals should be acknowledged in the anthem.

So ...How many Muslims were forcibly converted to Hinduism or Mosques destroyed by hindu/sikh rulers even in those times? Zero.

 

[sweep_shot]

Who was the most impactful/successful Mughal emperor? I pick Aurungzeb.

Is it fair to say Aurungzeb has been the best ruler in subcontinent's history?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Who was the most impactful/successful Mughal emperor? I pick Aurungzeb.

Is it fair to say Aurungzeb has been the best ruler in subcontinent's history?

Aurangzeb is a murderous thug who killed our Gurus and burnt Hindu temples in the name of Islam.
He is not a ruler, but an invader and a criminal.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Who was the most impactful/successful Mughal emperor? I pick Aurungzeb.

Is it fair to say Aurungzeb has been the best ruler in subcontinent's history?

Yes sweep_shot bro, you are the true soldier of Islam. Mashallah

 

[Bhaijaan]

Who was the most impactful/successful Mughal emperor? I pick Aurungzeb.

Is it fair to say Aurungzeb has been the best ruler in subcontinent's history?

Akbar is generally considered the best ruler among the Mughals.

Aurangzeb, very talented and more ambitious. He wanted to expand the empire in the name of Islam which is why it seems a lot of present day Islam Expanionists adore him but it is the very reason he ended up becoming a villain to other religious groups who were at the receiving end of Aurangzeb sanctioned wars and communal prejudice.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Mughal empire’s fall started with Aurangzeb’s reign. Marathas and Sikhs consolidated in the South and North resisting him and Mughal empire lost its aura of invincibility. If he was content with what we had which was more than what any empire ever had it is likely the Mughals would have kept on ruling till now impacting the world in a huge manner.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Contributions of Mughal Empire (from ChatGPT):​

Architecture & Art

• Architectural Marvels: The Mughals are known for their iconic architecture, blending Persian, Islamic, and Indian styles. Famous examples include:
  • Taj Mahal (Agra)
  • Red Fort (Delhi and Agra)
  • Humayun’s Tomb
  • Fatehpur Sikri
• Miniature Paintings: Mughal miniature paintings flourished, depicting court life, battles, and mythology with exquisite detail.

---

Administration & Governance​

• Centralized Administration: The Mughals established a strong, centralized bureaucracy with a standardized system of revenue collection and land assessment (notably under Akbar).
• Mansabdari System: A unique administrative system where officials (mansabdars) were ranked and paid based on military and civil service roles.
• Judicial Reforms: Mughal rulers like Akbar introduced more secular and just practices in courts.

---

Agriculture & Economy​

• Land Revenue System: The Zabt system, introduced under Akbar and developed by Raja Todar Mal, was more systematic and fair.
• Trade Flourishment: The empire promoted internal and external trade. India became a hub for spices, textiles, and luxury goods, attracting traders from Europe and Asia.
• Infrastructure Development: Roads, serais (rest houses), and irrigation systems were improved to boost agriculture and trade.

---

Language & Literature​

• Persian Culture: Persian became the official court language and led to a literary golden age.
• Multilingualism: The Mughals also contributed to the growth of Urdu, a blend of Persian, Arabic, and local Indian languages.
• Translation Projects: Hindu texts like the Mahabharata and Ramayana were translated into Persian under Akbar’s patronage.

---

Craftsmanship & Industry​

• Textile Industry: Mughal India was known for its high-quality cotton, silk, and muslin.
• Jewelry & Metalwork: Patronage of intricate jewelry designs and metal arts (like bidriware) flourished.

Somebody has been reading the NCERT school books . For full marks you have to write the whole answer or you get deductions.

 

[ChennaiFan]

Akbar is generally considered the best ruler among the Mughals.

Aurangzeb, very talented and more ambitious. He wanted to expand the empire in the name of Islam which is why it seems a lot of present day Islam Expanionists adore him but it is the very reason he ended up becoming a villain to other religious groups who were at the receiving end of Aurangzeb sanctioned wars and communal prejudice.

Auranzeb was a blood thirsty, evil dictator who killed numerous number of people including his family members, converted a lot of people by force, and destroyed scriptures he was afraid of. Overall he was a sick psychopath. The irony is the descendants of those converts are now praising him. We know why - the religion glass is masking the barbarism of this evil person.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Auranzeb was a blood thirsty, evil dictator who killed numerous number of people including his family members, converted a lot of people by force, and destroyed scriptures he was afraid of. Overall he was a sick psychopath. The irony is the descendants of those converts are now praising him. We know why - the religion glass is masking the barbarism of this evil person.

Many men are naturally drawn to ideologies centered around expansion, which explains why leaders who promote aggressive growth or dominance are often admired. It’s a reflection of human nature, potentially tied to psychological drives such as excitement, ambition, or even a form of coping or compensation. If similar expansionist philosophies were prominent within Sanatan Dharma, it’s likely they would also attract a significant following. Personally, I also align with the spirit of the Mahabharata, though not in an “at all costs” manner or at least that’s how I see it.

 

[uppercut]

Aurangzeb is a murderous thug who killed our Gurus and burnt Hindu temples in the name of Islam.
He is not a ruler, but an invader and a criminal.

Not thug but a bonafide vermin of the most despicable kind. But not at all surprising to see the usual suspects drooling over a vermin.

 

[Rajdeep]

Mughals would have been a banned Islamic terrorist organization like Al Qaeda or ISIS had it existed today. It is so funny to see our converted friends supporting these terrorists but shedding crocodile tears for Palestine in another thread. Biggest hypocrites in the world and why world dnt feel for their cause.

 

[Hitman]

Mughals would have been a banned Islamic terrorist organization like Al Qaeda or ISIS had it existed today. It is so funny to see our converted friends supporting these terrorists but shedding crocodile tears for Palestine in another thread. Biggest hypocrites in the world and why world dnt feel for their cause.

True words. Also you explained quite well why the world doesn't care about the Palestinian cause.

 

[Rajdeep]

True words. Also you explained quite well why the world doesn't care about the Palestinian cause.

One has to wonder why these sub continent converts adore these barbaric invaders so much very well knowing all the atrocities they have committed? It is only due to religion. Then they somehow want the world to believe their concern for Palestine is humanitarian. They think others were born yesterday to not see through this hypocrisy....LMAO.

 

[sweep_shot]

Here is a poem about the greatness of Mughal emperor, Aurangzeb (written by DeepSeek AI):

Aurangzeb: The Unyielding Emperor

Beneath the sun of Hindustan,
A lion rose—a righteous man.
Aurangzeb, with iron might,
Guided by faith and sternest light.

No wine, no song, no golden ease,
But prayer and law on bended knees.
The Mughal throne, in splendor vast,
Yet he wore but robes threadbare and chast.

From Kabul’s peaks to Tamil shore,
His armies marched, his banners bore
The crescent’s call, the law’s decree,
A realm of strength, devout and free.

They whisper still of justice stern,
Of temples lost, of taxes firm.
Yet none deny his fearless hand,
That held aloft a trembling land.

No flatterer’s tongue could sway his ear,
No foe could shake his soul with fear.
A king who spurned the gilded crown,
Yet made an empire kneel down.

Aurangzeb! Though ages pass,
The name endures in steel and brass.
A ruler fierce, devout, austere—
The last great Mughal, strong and sheer.

 

[Rajdeep]

The best thing Narendra Modi has done in India is to bring these Aurangazeb loving Jaychands in line by kicking their rear end. However more need to be done which will be completed by Yogi Adityanath.

 

[Rajdeep]

Btw, great read OP @hoshiarpurexpress

Guru Tegh Bahadur Singh's execution was the most brutal that was done in Chandni Chowk. The good thing is even after so many atrocities, Sikhism still stands strong in India after 400 years whereas direct descendent of mughals living in poverty.

 

[Devadwal]

Mughals would have been a banned Islamic terrorist organization like Al Qaeda or ISIS had it existed today. It is so funny to see our converted friends supporting these terrorists but shedding crocodile tears for Palestine in another thread. Biggest hypocrites in the world and why world dnt feel for their cause.

Completely agreed .and good thread by bro @hoshiarpurexpress .

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Here is a poem about the greatness of Mughal emperor, Aurangzeb (written by DeepSeek AI):

Aurangzeb: The Unyielding Emperor

Beneath the sun of Hindustan,
A lion rose—a righteous man.
Aurangzeb, with iron might,
Guided by faith and sternest light.

No wine, no song, no golden ease,
But prayer and law on bended knees.
The Mughal throne, in splendor vast,
Yet he wore but robes threadbare and chast.

From Kabul’s peaks to Tamil shore,
His armies marched, his banners bore
The crescent’s call, the law’s decree,
A realm of strength, devout and free.

They whisper still of justice stern,
Of temples lost, of taxes firm.
Yet none deny his fearless hand,
That held aloft a trembling land.

No flatterer’s tongue could sway his ear,
No foe could shake his soul with fear.
A king who spurned the gilded crown,
Yet made an empire kneel down.

Aurangzeb! Though ages pass,
The name endures in steel and brass.
A ruler fierce, devout, austere—
The last great Mughal, strong and sheer.

Here is a poem about the dastardly acts of an invader who cannot and will not crush our spirits...

Flames of Faith, Blades of Resolve

In Delhi’s throne once sat a name,
Aurangzeb ruled with iron flame.
He broke the temples, crushed the soul,
Of hearts that dared to dream whole.

He chained the songs of temple bells,
Where peace once lived, now silence dwells.
Scriptures burned, and idols torn,
A shadow fell on lands forlorn.

Yet in the dusk, a fire arose,
From sacred soil where courage grows.
Not bound by caste or clan or creed,
They rose together in righteous deed.

The Hindu’s prayer, the Sikh’s blade,
In forests deep, their plans were laid.
Guru Tegh Bahadur stood unbowed,
Against the storm, he cried aloud:

“My head is yours, but not my faith,
Let tyranny not steal their grace.”
And so he fell, yet stood so tall,
His martyrdom inspired all.

From Punjab’s plains to Vindhya’s rise,
Brave hearts would no more hide their cries.
Marathas struck with Shivaji’s might,
And Khalsa roared for truth and right.

They bled for dharma, side by side,
No difference could divide their stride.
Steel met steel, and fire met flame,
Injustice trembled at their name.

Though time has passed, the echoes stay,
Of those who chose the harder way.
Let history mark that when it came,
They fought as one, not seeking fame.

So when the tyrant raised his crest,
He met a wall of hearts possessed—
By truth, by love, by sacred thread,
And faiths that would not bow or dread.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Btw, great read OP @hoshiarpurexpress

Guru Tegh Bahadur Singh's execution was the most brutal that was done in Chandni Chowk. The good thing is even after so many atrocities, Sikhism still stands strong in India after 400 years whereas direct descendent of mughals living in poverty.

Karma is inevitable.

Even many Sikhs are dealing with the bad karma they have accumulated in the last few decades by letting the dark side influence them and becoming rogue anti nationals. Their recklessness brought Punjab from being #1 most prosperous state in the country to among the worst performing today.

The Chakra of Karma is constant. Good men earn Good karma but lead to the birth of Weak men who accumulate bad karma leading to tougher times leading to again the birth of tough men who bring good times by hard work leading to good times enabling the birth of beta men.

Sanatan Dharma explained the chakra of karma beautifully

 

[Vikram1989]

The Mughal Empire, often celebrated by Muslims of subcontinent for its grand architecture and administrative brilliance, always had a darker legacy—one marked

U have given me good title and pointer bro.i will start one against tipu.he seems to be the second biggest religious bigot after Aurangzeb.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Mughals would have been a banned Islamic terrorist organization like Al Qaeda or ISIS had it existed today. It is so funny to see our converted friends supporting these terrorists but shedding crocodile tears for Palestine in another thread. Biggest hypocrites in the world and why world dnt feel for their cause.

You have to empathise with the converts here imo.

The converts do not know the hardships, murder and torture their Santani ancestors would have gone through, were Islam was shoved down their throats and forced to believe in a god from Arabia.

If there was a time machine were the modern day converts could travel back in time to see the horrible atrocities their ancestors would have gone through, I am sure majority of them wouldve left Islam as a result upon returning to the future...

Look at modern day Pakistan and Bangladesh, you see how the minorities are in the struggle of their lives to survive, the blessed ways passed on by the Mughal invaders generations ago...

 

[Romali_rotti]

U have given me good title and pointer bro.i will start one against tipu.he seems to be the second biggest religious bigot after Aurangzeb.

Him and Aurungzeb were the biggest atrocities to ever live in Bharat.....

 

[Romali_rotti]

Karma is inevitable.

Even many Sikhs are dealing with the bad karma they have accumulated in the last few decades by letting the dark side influence them and becoming rogue anti nationals. Their recklessness brought Punjab from being #1 most prosperous state in the country to among the worst performing today.

The Chakra of Karma is constant. Good men earn Good karma but lead to the birth of Weak men who accumulate bad karma leading to tougher times leading to again the birth of tough men who bring good times by hard work leading to good times enabling the birth of beta men.

Sanatan Dharma explained the chakra of karma beautifully

That bad Karma left by the Mughals....

Karma came back she is the invincible force that is now wrecking Pakistan and Bangladesh, legacy of the Mughal invaders...

 

[LongHorn]

You have to empathise with the converts here imo.

The converts do not know the hardships, murder and torture their Santani ancestors would have gone through, were Islam was shoved down their throats and forced to believe in a god from Arabia.

If there was a time machine were the modern day converts could travel back in time to see the horrible atrocities their ancestors would have gone through, I am sure majority of them wouldve left Islam as a result upon returning to the future...

Look at modern day Pakistan and Bangladesh, you see how the minorities are in the struggle of their lives to survive, the blessed ways passed on by the Mughal invaders generations ago...

Muslims in India have it worse than Hindus in Bangladesh
The former seem to be beaten for praying in Masjids, their homes destroyed by government

How many Hindus homes were crushed by a government bulldozer in Bangladesh in recent times?

 

[sweep_shot]

Muslims in India have it worse than Hindus in Bangladesh
The former seem to be beaten for praying in Masjids, their homes destroyed by government

How many Hindus homes were crushed by a government bulldozer in Bangladesh in recent times?

Good point. Situations are far worse in India.

Minority oppression in India is government-backed. There is no minority oppression from government in BD.

 

[LongHorn]

I have seen videos of Muslims lynched in India for carrying cows
How many Hindus were lynched in Bangladesh for carrying vegeterian food?

The biggest lynching in Bangladesh in recent times was that of 6 Muslim laborers by Hindus who accused them of sacrilege

 

[Romali_rotti]

Muslims in India have it worse than Hindus in Bangladesh
The former seem to be beaten for praying in Masjids, their homes destroyed by government

How many Hindus homes were crushed by a government bulldozer in Bangladesh in recent times?

Yes brother you are correct.

Muslims have at times gotten the rough end of the stick in India not gonna deny.

But they are over 200 million in India where as for the 2 failed Islamic countries can't say the same about their minorities.

 

[Bhaijaan]

That bad Karma left by the Mughals....

Karma came back she is the invincible force that is now wrecking Pakistan and Bangladesh, legacy of the Mughal invaders...

Karma shows mercy to no one. Even Krishna who was an avatar of Bhagwan Vishnu could not escape Karma as in the end he was struck down by a hunter in the Jungle who was believed to be the rebirth of Vanar king Baali whom Sri Ram (another Avatar of Bhagwan Vishnu) had deceitfully killed in previous birth.

The cosmic ledger of Karma is inescapable. In this life or the afterlife.

Sometimes people say these people did so much bad but they all enjoying. Trust Dharma brother, everyone will pay for every wrong deed in this life or the next and in some cases the cycle doesn't break for many births.

 

[Rajdeep]

Muslims in India have it worse than Hindus in Bangladesh
The former seem to be beaten for praying in Masjids, their homes destroyed by government

How many Hindus homes were crushed by a government bulldozer in Bangladesh in recent times?

As funny and delusional it may sound, let me tell you somthing. When a community is at the receiving end of the stick, their population decrease. Like Pandits in Kashmir valley, Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh, Jews in Hitlers Germany etc. Indian muslims are perhaps the only community who gets mis treated if we go by internet and talbloids but their population keeps on increasing. Good thing is no one falls for these melodramas anymore. If they do thuggery like they are doing in Murshidabad, they will face consequences. For every Godhra, there will be a Gujarat 2002. Playing victim card will not help.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

One of the sad events of the subcontinent was when Muslims and Hindus attempted to restore the glorious Mughal Sultanate and remove the British is that the Sikhs sided with the British occupiers.

You want to talk about Karma you can see the effect of that on Sikhs since then. Stateless and reduced to Bhangras and songs about glassis.

 

[Romali_rotti]

For every Godhra, there will be a Gujarat 2002. Playing victim card will not help.

Well after Gujurat they haven't burnt or set fire to anymore trains, they learnt: do evil, then retaliation is something they won't be able to survive....

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Instead of learning about Mughal history from BJP WhatsApp University, you should learn it from proper and authentic sources.

There would probably be no India (as you know it) without the Mughals and Sultanates. Before them, India was an irrelevant place and divided into many small kingdoms.

Many of these Indians are suffering from severe crisis of being. Most have dumped their passports, abandoned their religion, live in western countries, have married white women for a passport and have called their kids John and Steven.

Isn't a surprise that the biggest topic of conversation for these people who abandoned their own culture and destroyed their lineages for some skirt is conversion and Muslims blah blah blah.

It is severe trauma and spiritual and identity so they have to rewrite the past and focus on history.

 

[Rajdeep]

One of the sad events of the subcontinent was when Muslims and Hindus attempted to restore the glorious Mughal Sultanate and remove the British is that the Sikhs sided with the British occupiers.

You want to talk about Karma you can see the effect of that on Sikhs since then. Stateless and reduced to Bhangras and songs about glassis.

I was not aware of this story, can you pls shed some more light on it? One would assume that British were anyday better than Sultanates or Mughals. If Hindus tried to restore those tyrants, they were wrong. Sikhs were right in aligning with British. However I dnt buy it, so please show us some evidence of this happening.

 

[Romali_rotti]

I was not aware of this story, can you pls shed some more light on it? One would assume that British were anyday better than Sultanates or Mughals. If Hindus tried to restore those tyrants, they were wrong. Sikhs were right in aligning with British. However I dnt buy it, so please show us some evidence of this happening.

100% Sikhs were constantly fighting these Tryrants through out their history. Fighting animals like Babur, Tiamur, Aurangzeb etc... Not surprised they sided with the British

 

[Bhaijaan]

One of the sad events of the subcontinent was when Muslims and Hindus attempted to restore the glorious Mughal Sultanate and remove the British is that the Sikhs sided with the British occupiers.

You want to talk about Karma you can see the effect of that on Sikhs since then. Stateless and reduced to Bhangras and songs about glassis.

Agreed.

The decline in influence and leadership position of the Sikh community since the fall of the Ranjit Singh Empire has been significant. If any community has fallen from grace it is Sikhism. It is rarely talked about to avoid communal tensions but they really went all the way from ruling vast amount of lands in Northern regions of Bharat and having all the wealth to being Nachaniyas at music concerts.

In pursuit of self-serving political goals they have over time distanced themselves from others religious communities. Some Sikhs identify as Sanatani, others draw parallels with Islamic theology due to the shared belief in one God. They try to be extraclever by picking and choosing sides as per convenience without knowing the world at large can see through the act. In Punjab they say they're aligned with Islam and are fighting a shared battle against Hindus, in Delhi they say we are part of Sanatani brotherhood and have always fought against Islamists.

Sikhs who talk about community service are part of the largest drug rackets in US-Canada and leading mafia gangs.

Nobody bothers to talk about it because they're still so small as a community whatever mischiefs they do are a mere blink of an eye for major nations.

 

[Rajdeep]

Bit off topic, some great threads been made today after boring last few days and yours truly is also in full mood on a bank holiday saturday. Its gonna be a great day here today

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I was not aware of this story, can you pls shed some more light on it? One would assume that British were anyday better than Sultanates or Mughals. If Hindus tried to restore those tyrants, they were wrong. Sikhs were right in aligning with British. However I dnt buy it, so please show us some evidence of this happening.

1857 uprising.

Hindus weren't the victims of Mughals they were co administrators of the empire. Most of the Mughal administration was high caste Hindus who ran the country.

You also need to study history of subcontinent. It is very easy and convenient to say those that gave their lives and their blood is soaked into the fabric of the region "were wrong".

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Agreed.

The decline in influence and leadership position of the Sikh community since the fall of the Ranjit Singh Empire has been significant. If any community has fallen from grace it is Sikhism. It is rarely talked about to avoid communal tensions but they really went all the way from ruling vast amount of lands in Northern regions of Bharat and having all the wealth to being Nachaniyas at music concerts.

In pursuit of self-serving political goals they have over time distanced themselves from others religious communities. Some Sikhs identify as Sanatani, others draw parallels with Islamic theology due to the shared belief in one God. They try to be extraclever by picking and choosing sides as per convenience without knowing the world at large can see through the act. In Punjab they say they're aligned with Islam and are fighting a shared battle against Hindus, in Delhi they say we are part of Sanatani brotherhood and have always fought against Islamists.

Sikhs who talk about community service are part of the largest drug rackets in US-Canada and leading mafia gangs.

Nobody bothers to talk about it because they're still so small as a community whatever mischiefs they do are a mere blink of an eye for major nations.

You and I once spoke about how the killing of the Sikhs Gurus was one of the most horrible acts in subcontinent history. There is no denying it and I can empathize with the pain of Sikhs to this day. But as a community how long will they blame this event? Nowadays many of their youths are cutting of the turban and stopped wearing special kacha but their hierarchy is still content on sitting on the fence on religious issue as you have detailed or blaming Mughal.

However I must note that Sikhs community in UK is exemplary and Muslims ehte cna learn from their behavior and PR

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Bit off topic, some great threads been made today after boring last few days and yours truly is also in full mood on a bank holiday saturday. Its gonna be a great day here today

Let's add some more spice for you

@SpiritOf1903 any views on conduct of Sikhs in relation to the issues raised in this thread .

 

[Bhaijaan]

You and I once spoke about how the killing of the Sikhs Gurus was one of the most horrible acts in subcontinent history. There is no denying it and I can empathize with the pain of Sikhs to this day. But as a community how long will they blame this event? Nowadays many of their youths are cutting of the turban and stopped wearing special kacha but their hierarchy is still content on sitting on the fence on religious issue as you have detailed or blaming Mughal

They are a dogali qaum (two faced qaum).

They cry & whine when it is convenient and fall in the feet of the same religious groups when it is for their benefit.

Their low IQ dogali politics has single handedly reduced our state of Punjab to among the worst performing states in the country.

The racist Sikh who calls a migrant labour from UP, Bihar a bhaiya in the most derogatory manner is now on the verge of becoming a migrant labour for UP, Bihar based entrepreneurs everywhere in the country.

 

[Rajdeep]

1857 uprising.

Hindus weren't the victims of Mughals they were co administrators of the empire. Most of the Mughal administration was high caste Hindus who ran the country.

You also need to study history of subcontinent. It is very easy and convenient to say those that gave their lives and their blood is soaked into the fabric of the region "were wrong".

Mughal empire was a huge empire running across entire width of the country. A lot of man power is required to run such an empire. India is/was a predominantly Hindu country. So Mughals appointing some high caste hindus to run their empire is no big deal and neither a proof of their religious tolerance. It is akin to how present day Dubai is build with Indian labours.

One simply can't put a blind eye on atrocities committed by likes of Jahangir or Aurangazeb as alluded to in the OP.

 

[big_gamer007]

The same people who are currently protesting Israels actions against Palestine are the ones glorifying the same if not worse actions of Mughals.

Then the same people will play the victim card and call out others who defend Israel as they are defending Mughals in this thread as supporters of genocide, when in reality it’s them.

Hypocrisy at its finest and shows how religion makes one blind and evil.

The irony/funniest part of it all is that in all probability the atrocities and genocide Mughal committee was against the ancestors of the very posters defending them today.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The same people who are currently protesting Israels actions against Palestine are the ones glorifying the same if not worse actions of Mughals.

Then the same people will play the victim card and call out others who defend Israel as they are defending Mughals in this thread as supporters of genocide, when in reality it’s them.

Hypocrisy at its finest and shows how religion makes one blind and evil.

The irony/funniest part of it all is that in all probability the atrocities and genocide Mughal committee was against the ancestors of the very posters defending them today.

Can you share more on why you think it is appropriate to compare the Mughals with genociding Israelis rather than their contemporary empires at the time or any of of the other non-Mughal empires in the historical Indian subcontinent?

 

[speed]

100% Sikhs were constantly fighting these Tryrants through out their history. Fighting animals like Babur, Tiamur, Aurangzeb etc... Not surprised they sided with the British

Taimur was.before guru nanak,.and sikh sources say babur met Guru nanak and he told him u will have a great empire which he did.

 

[speed]

May be you should read a bit about Sikh history.
Refute any of the facts listed in my post and come back. All of the things in the post are factual and part of Sikh history.

Just because it's sikh history dosen't make it factual, according to sikh history mughals had their entire army of 1 million soldiers fight 40 sikhs.

And That baba deep singh fought with his head in one hand and killed thousands of enemy soldiers at amristar.

 

[big_gamer007]

Can you share more on why you think it is appropriate to compare the Mughals with genociding Israelis rather than their contemporary empires at the time or any of of the other non-Mughal empires in the historical Indian subcontinent?

1. It is importantly to compare to make some posters here understand how religion has turned them evil.
2. I don’t understand your question, so just because Rwanda or some African country is committing genocide in their part of the world it makes genocide by Israel fair game? What kind of logic is that?

A genocide is a genocide irrespective of the era and one has to call it out and not glorify it while living in 2025.

It doesn’t matter if other empires of that era committed genocide as well or if that was the norm to establish your rule, now looking back from 2025 seeing the attrocities and mass killings of civilians amongst other heinous crimes, anyone with humane values will call it out.

One can discuss the positive aspects of Mughal rule but that doesn’t mean they weren’t genocidal maniacs and should be worshipped.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Taimur was.before guru nanak,.and sikh sources say babur met Guru nanak and he told him u will have a great empire which he did.

Yes yes to which babur became the best thing since slice bread for the Santani land

 

[speed]

Yes yes to which babur became the best thing since slice bread for the Santani land

It's sikh sources so take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Well after Gujurat they haven't burnt or set fire to anymore trains, they learnt: do evil, then retaliation is something they won't be able to survive....

Only language they understand.

 

[Bhaijaan]

There is a lot of built up anger in Hindus. For decades, we practiced our religion in private and our religion does not ask us to talk bad or prove wrong any other religion. Natural if your religion’s human origin goes 5000 years back. No competition or threat so nothing like that mentioned in the vedas.

But unfortunately Islamists and Sikhs have for decades exploited this by openly talking negatively about our religion and devoting a lot of their time and efforts in debating the most controversial and less flattering aspects of our ancient religion.

We did not want to but we were forced to hit back and do the same. Anti Other Religion commentary is a modern thing in Hinduism and came to being as a defensive/offense mechanism.

Sikhs have also enjoyed a period of no opposition from Hindus during their years of open and aggressive mocking and insults hurled at Hinduism. They should see all the pakhand that came into their own cult over the years. It’s only been 300 years and you think you have the audacity to talk about a 5000 year old religion which still stands strong despite all odds and is arguably about to enter another age of prominence.

Longevity is underrated
Hinduism has lived on for milleniums. You have got to give credit to the resilience.

 

[Justcrazy]

Mughals were worldly kings , majority of them did not live according to Islam.

Aurangzeb is in the news because some kind of movie was made on him , and that was done to make money by using nationalism . Since RSS led puppet party has come to power , they will keep bringing topics like Pakistan , terrorist , Mughal , Muslim , Nehru and Hindu. Trust me without using these particular words you will not find any of their leaders speaking.

This is all political things to hide administrative failures. Stop people from talking about jobs , health , crime etc issues.

If for example we agree with that Mughals did bad things , what did British do? Mughals lived and died and spend in India , where as British looted and built own country. Mughals married Rajput women , British did not.
When Mughal were finished where was Indian economy , after British left where was the economy ?

If people have a shade of doubt about the British , ask people from Bengal , how famine was inducted and how many people died in starvation , and what kind of racist remark Churchill made. So , will RSS go and destroy all remnants of British history from India.

You will see these RSS goons go and harass and beat Muslim mutton or chicken seller , how many times have they done so against sellers of pork ?

The fact is that these people are having an inferiority complex of being ruled by Mughals , that when they were alive , they bowed down , now after death they are fighting them.

 

[HalBass9]

Damn, the critics of religion are now the cheerleaders for religious fanatics, helping them drag that centuries old baggage of violence like it’s some noble quest.

Can’t think of a better, sadder oxymoron if I tried.

 

[HalBass9]

This thread is a masterclass in using the real world as a smokescreen, a pitiful excuse to justify violence and dominance over minorities. Newsflash, Indian Muslims aren’t going back to being Hindus, and they’re not leaving India either. Their population isn’t shrinking, it’s rising.

What you’re witnessing is a carefully crafted narrative, built to excuse the bloodshed, the hate, and the systematic marginalization.

And then you’ve got the nerve to sprinkle in lectures on karma?

Keep that energy for the next riot you’ll pretend to condemn while secretly rooting for.

Year is 2025

 

[Greenstorm]

1. It is importantly to compare to make some posters here understand how religion has turned them evil.
2. I don’t understand your question, so just because Rwanda or some African country is committing genocide in their part of the world it makes genocide by Israel fair game? What kind of logic is that?

A genocide is a genocide irrespective of the era and one has to call it out and not glorify it while living in 2025.

It doesn’t matter if other empires of that era committed genocide as well or if that was the norm to establish your rule, now looking back from 2025 seeing the attrocities and mass killings of civilians amongst other heinous crimes, anyone with humane values will call it out.

One can discuss the positive aspects of Mughal rule but that doesn’t mean they weren’t genocidal maniacs and should be worshipped.

If you are advocating for judging old empires on modern morality then what about genocide of Hindus of Bengal by Marathas ? Or big bad Muslims should be the only target of this moralistic judgement because after all 'religion has turned them evil' ? Should sanatanis never criticize persecution of minorities in Pakistan without first condemning Marathas ?

 

[Greenstorm]

Mughal empire was fairly restrained for its time and they had to be considering they were a minority ruling over a majority. They weren't any more brutal than Sikh empire and Maratha who later rose to power but sanatanis will conveniently ignore that.

 

[JaDed]

If you are advocating for judging old empires on modern morality then what about genocide of Hindus of Bengal by Marathas ? Or big bad Muslims should be the only target of this moralistic judgement because after all 'religion has turned them evil' ? Should sanatanis never criticize persecution of minorities in Pakistan without first condemning Marathas ?

Here : Marathas, Cholas and Mauryans were power hungry, I hold no loyalty to them.
Now just how we can criticise old dynasties lets put religion on this footing:

Gautam Buddha , Mahavir Jain and Guru Nanak all non-Sanatanis were the only peaceful religious figures of the world do you accept that or you think they are not the most peaceful?

 

[Greenstorm]

Here : Marathas, Cholas and Mauryans were power hungry, I hold no loyalty to them.

Good for you but most posters here from a certain section won't hold that view.

Now just how we can criticise old dynasties lets put religion on this footing:

Gautam Buddha , Mahavir Jain and Guru Nanak all non-Sanatanis were the only peaceful religious figures of the world do you accept that or you think they are not the most peaceful?

Yes those three (eventhough I haven't read deeply on their lives) alongwith certain Islamic/Abrahamic prophets like Jesus Christ (PBUH) were peaceful in non-violence aspect of that word. I have no issues in accepting that.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Let's add some more spice for you

@SpiritOf1903 any views on conduct of Sikhs in relation to the issues raised in this thread .

History is written by the victor

 

[JaDed]

Good for you but most posters here from a certain section won't hold that view.

Yes those three (eventhough I haven't read deeply on their lives) alongwith certain Islamic/Abrahamic prophets like Jesus Christ (PBUH) were peaceful in non-violence aspect of that word. I have no issues in accepting that.

Agree Jesus Christ was non-violent as well

 

[Rajdeep]

The same people who are currently protesting Israels actions against Palestine are the ones glorifying the same if not worse actions of Mughals.

Then the same people will play the victim card and call out others who defend Israel as they are defending Mughals in this thread as supporters of genocide, when in reality it’s them.

Hypocrisy at its finest and shows how religion makes one blind and evil.

The irony/funniest part of it all is that in all probability the atrocities and genocide Mughal committee was against the ancestors of the very posters defending them today.

Yes I have said the same in Mughal appreciation thread. Another living example of what Rajdeep talks today, world thinks tomorrow. That aside, you are absolutely right, there is no difference between Islamic invaders like Sultanates or Mughals and Israel. If anything, the former was much more barbaric considering the era they ruled. The people who glorify such tyrants of the past just because they happen to be from the same religion but at the same time shed crocodile tears for Palestine are pure hypocrites. There is no two ways about it. This hypocrisy gets even stronger when they want wider world to believe their concern for Palestine is Humanitarian and more than religion. In 2025 these dramas simply dont work but some refuse to understand.

 

[sweep_shot]

If Mughals wanted to, they could've ended Hinduism and Sikhism in subcontinent completely. But, that was not the objective I guess.

Mughals were not cruel like Spanish Empire or other empires. They were benevolent in nature.

Did they make mistakes along the way? It was possible some mistakes were made. But, overall, it was a benevolent empire that enriched subcontinent and gave the place a robust identity.

Post #4 highlights their various contributions in subcontinent.

 

[uppercut]

Did they make mistakes along the way? It was possible some mistakes were made.

such as ?

 

[Hitman]

such as ?

Such as Akbar ordering the slaughter of more than 30,000 people including women and children during the Siege of Chittorgarh. Just a tiny mistake.​

 

[sweep_shot]

If you are going to quote my post, it is better if you quote the whole post. Don't trim it and make it out of context.

Don't be dishonest.

Also, don't besmirch Mughal Empire.

 

[sweep_shot]

Here's a poem from ChatGPT about the greatness of Babur, Aurangzeb, and Tipu Sultan:

Lions of the Subcontinent​

I. Babur — The Dreamer from Ferghana

From snow-capped peaks of rugged Ferghana's crest,
Came Babur bold, with empire in his chest.
A warrior-poet, fire in his gaze,
He carved his fate through Delhi's smoky haze.

With saber sharp and vision vast as skies,
He crossed five rivers where ambition lies.
Panipat roared—its cannons cracked the air,
And Hindustan bowed to his fervent prayer.

Yet not just steel—his words like gardens bloom,
In Baburnama’s lines, a rose perfume.
He built a world with justice as its spine,
A Timurid star that would forever shine.


II. Aurangzeb — The Iron Will of Deccan’s Crown

Then Aurangzeb, with silence more than song,
Austere and firm, in faith unwavering strong.
Not merely throne, but law he sought to mold,
A sovereign soul, both feared and cold.

He bore the crown not for mere pride or peace,
But to uphold a faith that would not cease.
The Deccan hills, he climbed with soldier's tread,
His conquests vast, where angels feared to tread.

His rule was long, a tapestry of trials,
Of mosques and forts that stretched across the miles.
Though debated still in modern thought’s domain,
His discipline and will forever reign.


III. Tipu Sultan — The Tiger of Mysore

In southern lands where monsoons chant their rhyme,
Rose Tipu fierce, a flame defying time.
The Tiger roared in Mysore’s emerald lair,
With rocket’s fire and visionary flair.

A king of science, soldier, and of steam,
He fused the past with future’s vibrant dream.
Against the British tide he stood alone,
His valor etched in steel and granite stone.

“Better one day a lion,” he declared,
“Than thousand years in chains, enslaved and scared.”
His blood was ink, his death a battle cry,
That stirred the winds and thundered through the sky.

 

[Justcrazy]

Mughal empire was fairly restrained for its time and they had to be considering they were a minority ruling over a majority. They weren't any more brutal than Sikh empire and Maratha who later rose to power but sanatanis will conveniently ignore that.

Even the British were minorities , very few British officers were in India.