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The myth of 'Pakistan mai talent bohat hai'

Technics 1210 said:
Who is asking for supernatural talent?

It is you who believes in myths if you're expecting supernatural talent.

Tell when Pakistan last had a talented line up the team?

I know Indian fans like yourself believe Tendulkar is a God, but please do tell me of supernatural players, outside of Pakistan, in the history of the game.
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Replace supernatural talent with plenty of talent. Same thing
 
Technics 1210 said:
No its not.

But I will ask one more time, when was the last time Pakistan had a talented line up in the team? I will make it easy for you, pick any format.
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It was you who was saying Pakistan has a lot of talent and just need Jazba or whatever lame word you were using.
 
saqib.rai said:
It was you who was saying Pakistan has a lot of talent and just need Jazba or whatever lame word you were using.
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You have no answer.

The fact you cannot answer tells me you have no idea what talent is.

The only lame word used was by you, 'supernatural' - hahaha.

Pakistan has more talent than you can imagine or define.
 
Technics 1210 said:
You have no answer.

The fact you cannot answer tells me you have no idea what talent is.

The only lame word used was by you, 'supernatural' - hahaha.

Pakistan has more talent than you can imagine or define.
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Bhai thank you for ruining my post

Khair, kehna kya cha rahe hoo app?

Does Pakistan have cricketing talent ya nahi?
 
Mamoon said:
Least talented cricket nation in history.
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I have to agree about this part , the talent is getting thin progressively at an alarming rate since the last 2 U19 worldcups and this time we don’t even have a pacer who can consistently hit 135k or a spinner who can actually turn the ball.
Captain Saad Baig half of the time he gets out before scoring 10 runs , the openers are good this time around but for some unknown reason Azan Awais has been dropped from the squad and so as Ali Asfand the only spinner who can actually turn , but he is now playing grade ii cricket.
 
shariqnoor said:
In Pakistan, anybody who can pick up a bat or roll their arm over is talented. I've yet to hear anyone say that a particular cricketer isn't talented.

I'm pretty sure if you dug up old news, you'd find some article saying 'talented' Junaid Zia debuting for Pakistan.
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Still true. The Urdu saying I mentioned in the game thread is also true for Pakistan cricket as a whole,

"Aik toh ghareeb, oopar say badtameez"
 
Pakistan have yet to produce a better wicket keeper batsman than Mushfiqur Rahim let alone an ATG one.

Historically they relied on ball tampering to achieve with results with the older ball and also relied upon chucking. As a result they’ve failed to produce good conventional swing bowlers apart from Asif and Shaheen.

Ever since ICC clamped down on illegal bowling actions in 2015, Pakistan have yet to produce a quality finger spinner.

Pakistan needs a big reset from grassroots to the national level. The problem is none of our ex-players and “coaches” understand the root cause and all these underlying issues that are plaguing the progress of Pakistan cricket.
 
Some people say there's not enough talent in the country pointing to the seemingly empty reserves of spinners.

I disagree. There's plenty of talent. From a cricketing standpoint, PCB and the selectors have really messed up.

Imad Wasim is a Contract C player, yet not only wasn't picked for the national side, but also for the Asian Games side. Why not? It's not like the champions India had no players with international experience.

Abrar as a traveling reserve is pointless. He should have been played in ODIs a long time ago.

Or take a risk on x-factor and include Sufiyan Muqeem, who performed in the ACC Emerging tournament. Left arm wrist spinners are rare enough.

Even when people say we have no real finger-spinners, I disagree. They point to the quality of Keshav Maharaj. Maharaj has been a Test bowler since 2016, but had only played 7 ODIs before 2021. RSA management made him a white ball spinner.

We have a guy, Noman Ali, who took 7 wickets in an innings against the team that has a factory of left arm spinners (Sri Lanka) in his most recent Test. Noman Ali has over 100 List A wickets. Why has he never been picked for white ball cricket?

Kashif Bhatti (nearly 200), Raza Ali Dar (nearly 100), I could go on and on with spinners who never got rewarded for their performances in our domestic cricket. Selectors want to take credit for discovering the shiny new talent, not for rewarding the polished talent.
 
Pakistan has always been prosperous in talent generally for fast bowlers though. But in recent times, we have seen the emergence of batters as well in the domestic circuit. A few that I would quote here are Saim Ayub, Khawaja Nafay (I saw this guy in Ramadan tournament), Haseebullah Khan, and Shamyl Hussain. Considering the spin department, we have Ibrar, Faisal Akram ( left arm chinaman), Sufiyan Muqeem (left arm wrist spinner). For allrounders we have arafat minhas, mubasir. Talent is not finished by any means in Pakistan. We have talent but just need to out more focus on grooming them instead of playing deadbeat and bits & pieces players.
 
If NZ's population of 5M can produce a competitive 11, year-on-year, I do not doubt that there is talent amongst a population of 250M people.

I suspect that societal and infrastructural issues are responsible for the promotion of our talent, in the same way much of the country's non-sporting issues are struggling. Pakistan has potential in all areas but there is no substitute for hardwork.

I don't want to make sweeping statements about the people or the country but we seem happiest looking out for number one, and settling when content. There is no drive or strive for becoming the best. We are easily pleased and that is probably attributable to the poverty in the country (societal/infrastructural issues I mentioned) when one has enough for a decent life, they're content with that.

I know that we are a resourceful people.
 
Sunzi said:
If NZ's population of 5M can produce a competitive 11, year-on-year, I do not doubt that there is talent amongst a population of 250M people.

I suspect that societal and infrastructural issues are responsible for the promotion of our talent, in the same way much of the country's non-sporting issues are struggling. Pakistan has potential in all areas but there is no substitute for hardwork.

I don't want to make sweeping statements about the people or the country but we seem happiest looking out for number one, and settling when content. There is no drive or strive for becoming the best. We are easily pleased and that is probably attributable to the poverty in the country (societal/infrastructural issues I mentioned) when one has enough for a decent life, they're content with that.

I know that we are a resourceful people.
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I generally feel South Asians are really really bad at sport.

There are many people from the UK on this forum, so they would be able to answer better but how is it that not even a SINGLE person from South Asian diaspora has ever made it to the Premier League? Not even in the top 500 players in the country?

The racism argument doesn't stand as you have a PM of Indian origin, the Mayor of the largest city of Pakistani origin, there are more than a dozens self made billionaires of South Asian origin.
Discrimination sirf football mai hei honi hai??

Even look at the Olympics, India literally won ONE GOLD at the last Olympics and celebrate it like they have conquered the World.

The only reason India and Pakistan do decent in cricket is because no other country takes it seriously.
Australia does to a degree and have won the most ICC titles- double than the second country on the list. They have a population 60 TIMES LESS THAN INDIA.

My brother lives in South Africa and tells me no one cares about cricket there. The World Cup is going on but hardly anyone is interested. Rugby is by far the most popular sport there.

If South Africa, New Zealand, England start taking cricket seriously, we would not be able to compete with them. In a hundred years time, if cricket reaches Europe, China, US
Both Pakistan and India would be wiped out from cricket as well.
 
pakdude said:
Some people say there's not enough talent in the country pointing to the seemingly empty reserves of spinners.

I disagree. There's plenty of talent. From a cricketing standpoint, PCB and the selectors have really messed up.

Imad Wasim is a Contract C player, yet not only wasn't picked for the national side, but also for the Asian Games side. Why not? It's not like the champions India had no players with international experience.

Abrar as a traveling reserve is pointless. He should have been played in ODIs a long time ago.

Or take a risk on x-factor and include Sufiyan Muqeem, who performed in the ACC Emerging tournament. Left arm wrist spinners are rare enough.

Even when people say we have no real finger-spinners, I disagree. They point to the quality of Keshav Maharaj. Maharaj has been a Test bowler since 2016, but had only played 7 ODIs before 2021. RSA management made him a white ball spinner.

We have a guy, Noman Ali, who took 7 wickets in an innings against the team that has a factory of left arm spinners (Sri Lanka) in his most recent Test. Noman Ali has over 100 List A wickets. Why has he never been picked for white ball cricket?

Kashif Bhatti (nearly 200), Raza Ali Dar (nearly 100), I could go on and on with spinners who never got rewarded for their performances in our domestic cricket. Selectors want to take credit for discovering the shiny new talent, not for rewarding the polished talent.
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I Recommend this post for POTW
Lots of people who resort to hyperboles like “least talented nation” or “most talented nation”. But are we really assessing the issues with a nuance?
 
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saqib.rai said:
I generally feel South Asians are really really bad at sport.

There are many people from the UK on this forum, so they would be able to answer better but how is it that not even a SINGLE person from South Asian diaspora has ever made it to the Premier League? Not even in the top 500 players in the country?

The racism argument doesn't stand as you have a PM of Indian origin, the Mayor of the largest city of Pakistani origin, there are more than a dozens self made billionaires of South Asian origin.
Discrimination sirf football mai hei honi hai??

Even look at the Olympics, India literally won ONE GOLD at the last Olympics and celebrate it like they have conquered the World.

The only reason India and Pakistan do decent in cricket is because no other country takes it seriously.
Australia does to a degree and have won the most ICC titles- double than the second country on the list. They have a population 60 TIMES LESS THAN INDIA.

My brother lives in South Africa and tells me no one cares about cricket there. The World Cup is going on but hardly anyone is interested. Rugby is by far the most popular sport there.

If South Africa, New Zealand, England start taking cricket seriously, we would not be able to compete with them. In a hundred years time, if cricket reaches Europe, China, US
Both Pakistan and India would be wiped out from cricket as well.
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South Asia is much bigger area with much bigger population. Other parts of South Asia have more achievements in other sports that are global in nature.
 
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It hurts people’s ego to accept that Pakistan has zero talent but it is the harsh reality.
 
latecut said:
South Asia is much bigger area with much bigger population. Other parts of South Asia have more achievements in other sports that are global in nature.
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By South Asia, I referred to India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Maldives, Nepal, Bhutan

All talentless sporting countries
 
saqib.rai said:
By South Asia, I referred to India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Maldives, Nepal, Bhutan

All talentless sporting countries
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Please do some research about the sporting achievements of India at Asian, Olympic and world levels. Names of sports suggested- Archery, Atheletics, Badminton, Chess, Tennis, Shooting.
 
latecut said:
Please do some research about the sporting achievements of India at Asian, Olympic and world levels. Names of sports suggested- Archery, Atheletics, Badminton, Chess, Tennis, Shooting.
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See my original post

1 Olympic gold at the last Olympics with a 1.4 billion population. Still you want to debate?

Tennis? Lol
How many SINGLE Grand Slams has India won in its sporting history?
ZERO

Athletics?
Seriously?
Neeraj was the first medalists in India's athletic history at the Olympics. And is the only one till date.

Chess is not a sport. Tomorrow you would count ludo as a sport as well. Chess doesn't require any physical fitness.

Shooting and archery I have no idea about. Do athletes from many countries compete?
 
Pakistan's cricket talent is under scrutiny as the Pakistan Shaheens, comprising players like Mehran Mumtaz, Zaman Khan, Mohammad Haris, and Haider Ali, couldn't win a single game against top teams in the ACC Men's T20 Emerging Teams Asia Cup 2024.
 
FearlessRoar said:
Pakistan's cricket talent is under scrutiny as the Pakistan Shaheens, comprising players like Mehran Mumtaz, Zaman Khan, Mohammad Haris, and Haider Ali, couldn't win a single game against top teams in the ACC Men's T20 Emerging Teams Asia Cup 2024.
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If we keep relying on such talent just imagine where our cricket will be in the coming years.
 
The biggest problem we have is fast bowling. I find it offensive to see an AR as the only pace bowling option.

I wish we had 3 world class fast bowlers and green tops on home pitches.

A SENA series win has become an even more distant dream.
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
The biggest problem we have is fast bowling. I find it offensive to see an AR as the only pace bowling option.

I wish we had 3 world class fast bowlers and green tops on home pitches.

A SENA series win has become an even more distant dream.
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Fast bowling isn't the issue. The problem lies in excessive options and mishandling.
 
Pakistan has talent, and will always have talent. Those who say we dont have vested interests as they want to keep their hegemony intact. Apni roti, apna paisa chaltay rahay. They will tell you we dont have any spinners. They will tell you we cannot make conducive pitches. They will do each and everything to convince you that theres no one but THEM. Watch out for these wolves, Shahid Afridi, Azhar Mehmood, Misbah, Babar, Saya Mafia there are so many names. I know all of you, and now we wont forget.
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
The biggest problem we have is fast bowling. I find it offensive to see an AR as the only pace bowling option.

I wish we had 3 world class fast bowlers and green tops on home pitches.

A SENA series win has become an even more distant dream.
Click to expand...
We have world class bowling options in our ranks. They will be given chance under Aqib. We have lots of hopes from him.
 
Talent is there but it has not been used wisely. They might not have parchis as well.
 
Guys like irfan, khushdil, hasan nawaz and this samad guy must be having some hidden talent which can't be seen by us normal folks... It needs an extraordinary expertise to identify gems like these....
These guys are rarest gems... Give them like 100 matches before judging them...
 
100% disagree with the premise of the OP.

Pakistan mai talent bohat hay - This is an article of faith for me. Not going to let anyone dissuade me.
 
Talent doesn’t mean you will get success in International cricket and it’s so easy to determine if a player is talented or not , guys like Usman Khan , Haider Ali , Saim , Sahibzada they all have talent to score at a brisk pace on low bounce flat tracks on a consistent basis,
Guys like Hasan , Irfan , Haris and Samad doesn’t have talent to score consistently even on flat tracks
And we simply don’t have any talent who can score freely against a moving ball with high bounce.

if you have a cricketing eye than you can judge a batting talent in just 20 deliveries against good bowlers.
 
This series is gone let's try out other youngsters for next matches see what they got in them
 
These boys need more time specially Nawaz . Harris is disappointing he has had international experience and also led Shaheens everywhere so better was expected of him . Niazi needs time too . Samad seems a good striker lower down order
 
This myth became a joke when we stretched it on Umar Akmal like a chewing gum. He was the epitome that talent alone only gets you in the gutter and nowhere else.

PCB selectors and coaches are low IQ and lack any player development skills so that's where you're relying on 1-2 glory domestic innings by any of the players to take them on a hype train.
 
Ability to strike against bounce and spin must be minimum criteria for selection for modern day lois. We can keep the swing/seam aside for a while for we hardly see seam pitches even in SENA but bounce will get you out even in uae aas we have seen hardik pandya exploit that many times against pak. Second should be ability to play spin.

Saim and Fakhar can do both so ofcourse it’s not alien to Pakistan.
 
shah9425 said:
This series is gone let's try out other youngsters for next matches see what they got in them
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Pakistan is going to play 3 odi and 3 T20 against Bangladesh at home in May - June.

That would be ideal series for pakistan youngster to show their skills

:kp
 
Existence of talent doesn’t always translate into success without the proper facilities, coaching, mental toughness to handle pressure and competition to hone skills.
The unpredictability often associated with Pakistan cricket can be seen as a sugar-coated version of inconsistency. The fanbase sometimes romanticizes inconsistency by calling it "unpredictability," as if it adds to the excitement of the game. .But if we look closely, this inconsistency is often a result of players not being able to maintain the same level of performance, about players not being able to handle the pressure consistently.
Pakistan, while capable of producing occasional individual match-winning performances, struggles with mental toughness. Their players may have the talent, but their inconsistency in big moments, often due to pressure, has been a major issue.
 
How can anyone call this a myth?

Look at the number of 145 + bowlers in Pakistan

Afridi
Naseem
Rauf
Wasim Jnr.
Dahani
Akif
Hasnain
Ubaid
Ali Raza
Ihsanullah

Never ending pace reserves.

Which team in world cricket has so many 145 bowlers.

Forget about Asia, were PAK have more fast bowlers than rest of Asia combined. :inti

This is the most talented fast bowling nation in the world for raw pace and ability. :inti
 
Hellion said:
How can anyone call this a myth?

Look at the number of 145 + bowlers in Pakistan

Afridi
Naseem
Rauf
Wasim Jnr.
Dahani
Akif
Hasnain
Ubaid
Ali Raza
Ihsanullah

Never ending pace reserves.

Which team in world cricket has so many 145 bowlers.

Forget about Asia, were PAK have more fast bowlers than rest of Asia combined. :inti

This is the most talented fast bowling nation in the world for raw pace and ability. :inti
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When Indian dibbly dobblers are more successful with their trundling pace, it’s quite clear raw pace and talent means nothing at international level.

Archer and Wood got thrashed by everyone and their aunty this CT, they are THE quickest pacers in world cricket today.
 
Usman Chadda said:
When Indian dibbly dobblers are more successful with their trundling pace, it’s quite clear raw pace and talent means nothing at international level.

Archer and Wood got thrashed by everyone and their aunty this CT, they are THE quickest pacers in world cricket today.
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Indian bowlers are not as quick as Pakistanis but they are all around the 135 kph mark . Hardly dibbly dobblers.

It's true that Pakistani cricketers have less brains than cricketers of other countries by quite a margin - something they have in Mark Wood.

But this thread is about talent/natural ability which they don't lack. :inti
 
Hellion said:
Indian bowlers are not as quick as Pakistanis but they are all around the 135 kph mark . Hardly dibbly dobblers.

It's true that Pakistani cricketers have less brains than cricketers of other countries by quite a margin - something they have in Mark Wood.

But this thread is about talent/natural ability which they don't lack. :inti
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Bowling wise (only talking about raw pace and movement not talking about smartness and stamina) we definitely have the most quick bowlers compare to any other nation but it’s the batting and the innovation in which we lacks badly.
 
Hellion said:
Indian bowlers are not as quick as Pakistanis but they are all around the 135 kph mark . Hardly dibbly dobblers.

It's true that Pakistani cricketers have less brains than cricketers of other countries by quite a margin - something they have in Mark Wood.

But this thread is about talent/natural ability which they don't lack. :inti
Click to expand...
‘Talunt’ without hard work and the right temperament means nothing.

There is a reason players like Aamir Jamal perform well in one series against a champion team like Australia, then disappear a year later.

Pakistan players are the most brainless in the world, yes.
 
Even in the on going national t20 tournament every 2nd bowler is capable of bowling in mid to high 130ks and knows how to move the ball and most of them are not even domestic regulars.
 
Really impressed by Ubaid Shah development as he is easily the quickest bowler in this tournament, his balls are just zapping off the track.
 
I also used to think that there is no upcoming talent in Pak but seeing the ongoing national T20 I can say for sure that the problem is not talent but nepotism and poor selection , a bunch of no bodies in this tournament are destroying PSL regulars (who failed in international cricket)
 
If there was no talent in Pak then the domestic and psl regulars would have been dominating this tournament but it’s the exact opposite.
 
Hellion said:
How can anyone call this a myth?

Look at the number of 145 + bowlers in Pakistan

Afridi
Naseem
Rauf
Wasim Jnr.
Dahani
Akif
Hasnain
Ubaid
Ali Raza
Ihsanullah

Never ending pace reserves.

Which team in world cricket has so many 145 bowlers.

Forget about Asia, were PAK have more fast bowlers than rest of Asia combined. :inti

This is the most talented fast bowling nation in the world for raw pace and ability. :inti
Click to expand...
Afridi and Naseem aren't 145+ bowlers.

Bumrah and even Ishant Sharma bowled 145-150 at some point but it does not mean they are 145+ bowlers.
Don't know about others in he list but only Rauf can be genuinely 145+.
 
Muhammad Saad said:
More like bad selection , the PSL regulars are getting thrashed by bunch of no bodies in this tournament, it shows that talent is there but merit is not.
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Select anyone, they will all play the same way..

There is no super talent waiting in the wings... We've successfully destroyed our cricket...
 
Saw highlight of the first match and god Pakistani batsmen were so awful it felt like I was watching a roadside match.
They were blind slogging without and technique in hopes the ball connects.

How can such players be selected for internationals?

I am all for giving up on Babar and Rizwan but their replacements need to be someone who knows how to hold a bat and watch the ball not blind sloggers.

Embarrassing from Pakistani selectors.
 
Unfortunately, these guys thing that blind slogging is modern day batting and they have been proved wrong on multiple occasions. You gotta have a good hand-eye coordination and technique to excel at the international level and the difference between our domestic and international cricket is huge.
 
It's funny how Pakistanis still boast about their mythical pace stock, when they rely on spinners exclusively to take 20 wickets at home tests , and abroad their test attack consists of 120 kmph super trundlers.
 
speed_thrills said:
It's funny how Pakistanis still boast about their mythical pace stock, when they rely on spinners exclusively to take 20 wickets at home tests , and abroad their test attack consists of 120 kmph super trundlers.
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For vast majority of its existence, Pakistan have had great pacers. As a matter of fact, Pakistan had great pacers till around 2019. It is only in recent times, their pace efficiency has gone down.

India experienced complete opposite. For vast majority of its existence, India had terrible pacers. It is only in recent times Indian pacers started to find success.

:inti
 
sweep_shot said:
For vast majority of its existence, Pakistan have had great pacers. As a matter of fact, Pakistan had great pacers till around 2019. It is only in recent times, their pace efficiency has gone down.

India experienced complete opposite. For vast majority of its existence, India had terrible pacers. It is only in recent times Indian pacers started to find success.

:inti
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Naah. Pakistani pacers have been mediocre since 2010 especially in red ball.

Their post 2010 pacers have been the likes of Wahab Riaz, Hasan Ali, Ehsan Adil etc.

Guys like Umesh, Bhuvi, Siraj have better red ball legacy not to mention Shami and Bumrah.
 
sweep_shot said:
For vast majority of its existence, Pakistan have had great pacers. As a matter of fact, Pakistan had great pacers till around 2019. It is only in recent times, their pace efficiency has gone down.

India experienced complete opposite. For vast majority of its existence, India had terrible pacers. It is only in recent times Indian pacers started to find success.

:inti
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Its a myth that Pakistan Pacers were better than india.

They haven't won a test series in Wi until 2015 ,never in South Africa while India performed better than Pakistan.

:kp
 
BouncerGuy said:
Unfortunately, these guys thing that blind slogging is modern day batting and they have been proved wrong on multiple occasions. You gotta have a good hand-eye coordination and technique to excel at the international level and the difference between our domestic and international cricket is huge.
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Batters who have half decent record in FC cricket still have the best chance to do well in international cricket. If you pick a batter like Samad who has a disgraceful average of 12.92 in 13 FC games, what do we expect?
 
sweep_shot said:
For vast majority of its existence, Pakistan have had great pacers. As a matter of fact, Pakistan had great pacers till around 2019. It is only in recent times, their pace efficiency has gone down.

India experienced complete opposite. For vast majority of its existence, India had terrible pacers. It is only in recent times Indian pacers started to find success.

:inti
Click to expand...
No one is doubting Pakistan's pace heritage and India's lack of it.

My post was about someone who has listed lots of no-name pacers as some kind of solid pace pipeline Pakistan has, while in reality they can't deliver even in the hit-and-giggle format, barring a few.
 
sweep_shot said:
For vast majority of its existence, Pakistan have had great pacers. As a matter of fact, Pakistan had great pacers till around 2019. It is only in recent times, their pace efficiency has gone down.

India experienced complete opposite. For vast majority of its existence, India had terrible pacers. It is only in recent times Indian pacers started to find success.

:inti
Click to expand...
Last great pacer Pak had was Shoaib and he was done by around 2019. Last pacer to take 200 test wk was Waqar. So again, who are those mythical great pacers that graced Pak til around 2019?
 
We have three formats. It is very rare to be good in all three formats. So back in the 80s, 90s concept of LOI specialists was new. Now it is a necessity to manage workload. Pakistan has no clue how to manage it.i tell you. If they try to convert saim into an all format player his career will end pretty soon. Hardest breed is Test class breed. Then T20. ODi anyone can be good at. Switching between formats may not be straightforward.
 
speed_thrills said:
No one is doubting Pakistan's pace heritage and India's lack of it.

My post was about someone who has listed lots of no-name pacers as some kind of solid pace pipeline Pakistan has, while in reality they can't deliver even in the hit-and-giggle format, barring a few.
Click to expand...
What pak heritage?
India had the goat Asian pace attack from 2015 to 2022

Goat.
Goat pace attack. Let me make that clear. Pace not spin

Pakistan never produced an attack of that quality.

They had 3great individual bowlers across eras but never a complete pack.
 
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