The myth of 'Pakistan mai talent bohat hai'

[Jabo]

There is talent

The problem is they are brain dead and have bad role models

 

[FreeBird]

Wasin was a reject at 17
Youre kidding me.

Theres a small chance that Inzy might not have made it but Wasim would have reached the top regardless

Definitely Wasim was a reject.
He didn't make it to any regional team - he was only giving the net practice to a team that he was rejected from.

 

[FreeBird]

the major point is that if we had the best set up and infrastructure and everything you would want it still wouldn't mean that we would be destroying everyone else

it would mean that we would be more consistent maybe and not prone to collapsing one match and doing well in the other but we would still be below NZ, Aus, SA right now

my issue is the myth that we somehow have potentially world class players roaming the streets but they are not getting the chance while other countries don't have the same and are playingto full potential

what makes ppl say that we have best talent in the world?

If you read my previous posts in this thread, you will find that I agree with you on this point. So that's not an issue.

We do NOT have world class talent as much as we brag to have.

Talents like Wasim Akram (supported by hard work and a fairly functional brain and good work ethics) are born once in a century. We do NOT have such world class talent BUT, small talent supported by hard work, supreme work ethics and functional brain is BETTER than loads of talent with no hard work, and no worth ethics.

So if we could identify some of those who fall in the category as in bold above, we may find someone like Miandad who was less talented by had the fire in belly to make it happen.

The issue in my opinion is, the corruption and a few other factors is bound to shun away some of the potentially talented kids ... as I posted in post # 84 here

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...lers-talent-hunt-(2015)&p=7679939#post7679939

 

[Cricketrenew]

the major point is that if we had the best set up and infrastructure and everything you would want it still wouldn't mean that we would be destroying everyone else

it would mean that we would be more consistent maybe and not prone to collapsing one match and doing well in the other but we would still be below NZ, Aus, SA right now

my issue is the myth that we somehow have potentially world class players roaming the streets but they are not getting the chance while other countries don't have the same and are playingto full potential

what makes ppl say that we have best talent in the world?

Reverse Swing and Fast: Waqar, Wasim, Shoaib, Imran Khan, Safraz Nawaz........now Amir.
Spin: Abdul Qadir, Saqlain, M Ahmed, Ajmal
Batting: Miandad, Zaheer Abbas, S Anwar, Inzamam, M Yousaf

These are the people who made it through with talent, with all the barriers in place.
If an even playing field existed many more Waqars and Miandads would have come through but things have been getting worse.
Imran Farhat, Faisal Iqbal and too many medium pace trundlers too mention have come through.
If a good honest person ever becomes in charge of Pakistan where no corruption or grand Uncles exist,
Pakistan will unearth talent and become leader but until then the talent will go to waste.

Yes all countries have natural talent but Asian countries have more that has a chance of not getting mundane due to over coaching.

 

[Syed1]

Definitely Wasim was a reject.
He didn't make it to any regional team - he was only giving the net practice to a team that he was rejected from.

Micheal Jordan was dropped from his high-school team and told he is not good enough for the sport. Ended up being the best ever in the game.

If you have talent and the work ethic, you find a way.

 

[Laal]

I disagree.

Real Talent always rises to the top despite obstacles

Drogba, the Toure brothers etc came from some of the poorest backgrounds in Africa and are global superstars in soccer. Do you think they had access to even basic facilities. They barely had soccer cleats. But they rose to the top. Same with a lot of cricketers tbh. Yousuf had everything going against him but he rose to the top/

Proper administration and structure means we will be able to harness what we have and maybe make them more professiona, fitter and smarter in terms of decision making. So we'll get some good cricketers.

But its a folly to belive that a proper system will give us a Wasim Akram but it won tnow

Any team would never have more than a few (and I'm being charitable here) Wasim Akram-like players. If that's what you want build your argument around then I'm afraid that's a self-defeatist approach.

 

[Slog]

Any team would never have more than a few (and I'm being charitable here) Wasim Akram-like players. If that's what you want build your argument around then I'm afraid that's a self-defeatist approach.

no my argument is the myth that we are being robbed of Wasim Akram's due to the systems

 

[FreeBird]

Micheal Jordan was dropped from his high-school team and told he is not good enough for the sport. Ended up being the best ever in the game.

If you have talent and the work ethic, you find a way.

Again, scale in the "CORRUPTION FACTOR" between American privatized basket ball set up versus semi govt owned super corrupt environment where instructions like PCB are heavily influenced by politics and nepotism.

Michael Jordon would have been much more prone to be forgotten after he was rejected HAD HE BEEN IN PAKISTAN.

 

[Slog]

This debacle again highlights the myth of Pakistan mai bohat talent hai.

I might add to the OP that there are certain delusions about how there are players in domestic cricket who are not getting the chances and are better than the ones in the team. And how due to them being sideleined the best team is not playing

In past 2 years pretty much every performing batsman in domestic cricket has been tried and they are all mediocre.

Someone like Fawad was left home in the WC and all PPers used him not playing as a defense mechanism to say how our batting would have been so much better in the WC if he was there

Well. his performance is there. He is certainly not a top batsman

 

[Mamoon]

The most deluded nation in the world.

 

[Slog]

Till our fans and administrators get this lazy, delusional thought that Pakistan is blessed with extreme cricketing talent out of their their heads, we will keep rotting in cricket.

 

[Mamoon]

We have been fed this narrative by 'has been' cricketers of the 70s and 80s like Imran Khan etc. who are completely out of touch with the current situation and have been comparing the last 10-15 years talents to the ones they had in their lifetime.

We don't have Wasims, Waqars and Miandads any more. It's just a pile of crap that ATGs are out there struggling in the streets who are not getting a chance of because nepotism and corruption.

Guys like Fawad our are Miandads now and are being selected on 'merit', but the results are in front of you.

 

[MMHS]

PAK didn't have much talent in 70s or 80s either, in that respect of current context - someone name me a single player from PAK playing 100 Internationals (combined Test & ODI) in 70s or 80s WITHOUT A CAREER IN COUNTIES. Abdul Qadir, Tauseef & Qasim may be - a very specific type of skill.

Haroon Rashid, Taslim Arif, Maiul Atiq, Rizwanuzzaman, Mansoor Akhter, Jalaluddin, Sikander Bakth, Asif Masood, Salim Yousuf ....... are the Umar Akmal, Maqsood, Fawad, Sami, Irfan, JK, Tanvir, Shehzad, Fawad, Asad of 70s & 80s - faded away in few years after being exposed by products of better system, better managed teams.

Talent in sports is a myth of 19th or 1st part of 20th century - if Germany takes cricket seriously, by 2023 they 'll make the WC, by 2035 they might win the WC.

 

[Nabeel23]

We have a few players with good potential i.e. Babar Azam, Sami Aslam, Umar Siddiq, Mohammad Rizwan, Zafar Gohar etc. However because our domestic structure is so poor, these players are unlikely to flourish like players from other nations. What Pakistan really need to do is reduce the number of teams, change the ball and fix the grounds up they could even hire some foreign groundsmen from the likes of Australia and England for a year or two if they have to. Only then will you see them flourishing, Cricket has advanced quite a lot, you cannot expect to find a gem on the streets anymore.

If the selectors have a brain, they should make a list of the players with the most potential and organise some A tours to Australia, England etc. The quality of coaching at grass roots level also needs to improve so if that means hiring foreigners then so be it. The likes of Haris Sohail and Babar Azam could do with a county contract to improve their game so that should be their aim rather than playing domestic t20 leagues. For that to happen, they will need to show some potential in tests for a county to spot them. I hope they play well in the tour to England next year, it will be easier for counties to sign them if they watch them close up,

 

[zn426]

Talent is one thing.

I say that our system is still awful. If it were even 20 percent better than it is now we would not have lost to BD even once. There's no fielding culture in Pakistan. The batting culture has been basically defined by Afridi, who is a glorified slogger who was thought of as "best batsman in Pakistan" by everyone on the basis of a big performance every now and then. Afridi was incredibly talented, and he is also an incredible waste of said talent-bad players do not take seven wickets for twelve runs. But because he was so talented and because that talent showed up and he showed what he was capable of, much less talented players like Shehzad/Akmal/etc were enthralled and thought they could get by on talent alone.

If Pakistan wishes to return to an era of dominance, they should follow the example of the American basketball team, which fell as other teams became more talented to the point that they only got the bronze medal in the 2004 Olympics. They then learned the skills necessary to win at the international version of the game and now it is nearly impossible to beat them again. Why? Because they have talent.

I disagree that we are this untalented cricketing country. Every country has talent, and with our high population, there is more talent than most countries. But there are a number of factors that still hold us back.

1. Pakistan's economic situation. And believe it or not, this is more important than any other. It takes money to assemble proper infrastructure for cricket. It takes money to ensure that our fast bowlers are eating properly and develop correctly so they are not so injury prone as Muhammad Irfan is. It takes money to hire good batting coaches that will spend time teaching players the proper batting techniques so they learn how to play all forms of bowling from an early age, how to accelerate, etc. And that's not at the international level. As most of you have stated, by the time we have reached the international level it is too late! This must be taught in schooling, in camps, etc.

2. There is no fielding culture. As was also stated, this is a factor of work ethic and commitment to the game. A top fielding side will take 20-30 runs off the board for a chase situation and if bowling 2nd, will put much pressure on the chasing side-essentially forcing batsmen down the order to fall to even less than perfect balls since they will be in a hurry to score.

3. There's no willingness to send our lower sides to other countries. I find it remarkable that we have been willing to let Afghanistan (and their A side)/Kenya/etc. tour Pakistan in an effort to reestablish our international cricketing home schedule, but we're not willing to send our A sides and other sides to Australia/England/India to tour against their club sides. At that point of your career, if you are not willing to spends month on tour in First Class matches to learn to play in foreign conditions against higher quality domestic competition, then how are you going to make it when you're promoted to the senior side and you have to spend 3 months in England followed by a short tour to West Indies?

4. Corruption. Again, said by most of the posters here before. It's no surprise. So what's it going to take to clean it up? Do we have to wait for Imran Khan or some other honest figure to win an election and start placing serious men in charge of talent selection and for promoting high quality cricket administration and coaching within Pakistan? When are Pakistanis in Pakistan going to start demanding better selectors and talent evaluators on the board? Do the selectors not even exist to the average Ahmed on the street?

That's my thoughts. I'm interested to hear yours.

 

[yeh cheez]

I don't think Pakistan has any less (or more) talent than any other country. Its been discussed for many years now that the domestic structure in Pakistan is poor, I am not sure why there hasn't been a complete overhaul of the system, where players are supported starting from school level.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

My little analysis

Pakistan's Domestic system is poor but its the management which lacks trust in good players.

When new players are given opportunity, they are too much stressed to play for their position.

Look at Harris Sohail, he plays for himself to retain his position ..Scores 20---30---40---and then by the virtue of brain farts he loses his wicket at key points of the match. You could clearly see lack of ownership.

Its Waqar Younis job to plan (terrible at that) but on the ground its players who need to execute the plan.

You have to ask Waqar younis that Fawad Alam cant clear the circle, so why send him on 6-7 position ????
He scores heavily in domestic arena against duds but cannot play quality spin.


The only guy who looked good player is Sami Aslam , very composed.

Rizwan will be another UA v2 and i have zero faith in Saad, he has horrible technique

UA and Sohaib unfortunatley will be back in the next ODI series

 

[Indianess]

The speech given by harsha Bhogle on this talent thing in one of institutes ...he said that talent can only bring you up to a point.Then it is the attitude which makes him move further or even make him world beater . He gave the prime example of the two friends Sachin abd kambli.one reached heights of success and the other withered coz of attitude.
I can see the same thing with Pakistan cricketers ..they come with huge talent but don't learn ...Hope somebody change their attitude towards cricket...

 

[Syed1]

The speech given by harsha Bhogle on this talent thing in one of institutes ...he said that talent can only bring you up to a point.Then it is the attitude which makes him move further or even make him world beater . He gave the prime example of the two friends Sachin abd kambli.one reached heights of success and the other withered coz of attitude.
I can see the same thing with Pakistan cricketers ..they come with huge talent but don't learn ...Hope somebody change their attitude towards cricket...

Excellent points.. when you have guys like Shehzad who are nothing batsmen claim in interviews that they have 'achieved everything' then you know there is a huge problem.

 

[Indianess]

Excellent points.. when you have guys like Shehzad who are nothing batsmen claim in interviews that they have 'achieved everything' then you know there is a huge problem.

That's exactly his point was ! Even the likes virat kohli was once very arrogant but with time he realized that there is so much too achieve and one has to keep learning...may the presence of Sachin , dhoni abd to some extent dravid in the IPL may have helped him...

 

[FarOutSuhail]

Bring back Ahmed Shehzad... Back Hafeez to bat at no. 4 cause team needs it. Shehzad, Sami Aslam, Azhar Ali, Hafeez, Haris, Sarfaraz... This should be our batting line up.

 

[Chrish]

It's hard to imagine country with almost 200 mil population with Cricket as the only main sport will collapse forever.. I mean statistically it seems improbable if not impossible. Sooner or later they are bound to get up again.

 

[junaid.ahmed]

Excellent points.. when you have guys like Shehzad who are nothing batsmen claim in interviews that they have 'achieved everything' then you know there is a huge problem.

agreed but you cant treat the players like beggars, I get a feel that team management & board is little more rigid to the players

 

[Indianess]

agreed but you cant treat the players like beggars, I get a feel that team management & board is little more rigid to the players

Correct.One cannot treat players as beggars.But one also has to bring in that discipline within the players and more importantly the culture.

 

[redmaverik84]

My first post in this forum! And my 2 cents for what its worth. I think there is immense talent in Pakistan as there is in India and other top cricket playing nations. At the U-19 level, they are as good as anybody else. Its just the latter stages of development that goes awry owing to shoddy bureaucratic administration and apathy showed by them. India had the same problem till the mod 90's and I remember even during the 99 tour to Aus, we played with just 3 frontline batsmen! If Imran and Wasim was spotted and guided by the right people, I think its their turn now to go talent hunting and give back to the country what it gave to them. If you leave it to the non cricketing politicians, then this phase is going to continue

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Till our fans and administrators get this lazy, delusional thought that Pakistan is blessed with extreme cricketing talent out of their their heads, we will keep rotting in cricket.

Pakistan definitely may not have extreme cricketing talent but it has talent nonetheless. Every cricketing nation has talent. The thing is spotting this talent at the right time. When the best batsman in the past 6 years is selected at the age of 34 you know something is wrong. Similarly Irfan selected at the age of 30 + when most fast bowlers are at the back end of their careers. Irfan in his 20s most probably wouldn't have broken down after every 2 matches. Ajmal was spotted in his 30s too. Yea I know he's a chucker but before then we didn't know that.
I know it is VERY cliche to say this but Umar Akmal has talent. I hate this batsman purely because of the showcase of talent he was as a 19 year old early in his career. The guy wasn't as succesful as he could have been because Pakistan domestic is a mess. The guy was dropped to improve himself and he came back worse than before. This problem with the system has been going on for decades. It's nothing new. Wasim, Waqar and Inzi weren't the selectors first choice but they were Imran's first choice. Infact Imran had to plea to them to play Inzi in the WC. Mohammad Amir who was the best pace prospect to come out of Pakistan in 10 years was spotted by Wasim. Most of the talent comes "outside the system". The domestic circuit is in shambles. If you turn on the tv and watch some of the domestic matches most players are quiet embarrassing to watch.
Pakistan isn't any less talented or more talented than any other cricket nation. How is it that for a country which has produced some of the ATG and with such a rich history of cricket cannot produce talent. It is almost unheard of. It cannot be that a country with cricket as the most popular game have no talents. The thing is stuff like this got exposed as soon as Imran left. Post Imran which player has Pakistan produced which ended up being an ATG for Pak??

 

[Hawkeye]

Pakistan has immense talent.

As [MENTION=135862]redmaverik84[/MENTION] said, till the U19 level, we see some excellent players who are competitive with any other top cricketing team.

Sami Aslam
Babar Azam
Umar Akmal
Hammad Azam
Zafar Gohar
Imam ul Haq

These are a few examples of world class talent that we had till the U19 level.

Sami played his first match yesterday and already showed his superb class. We're yet to see Babar Azam, Zafar Gohar, Imam. The question is, will the PCB stick with Sami, Babar and develop them into world class batsmen at international level as well?

Hammad Azam should have been developed as a number 7 by now, but we have wasted his talent and time. Where is he? Nowhere to be seen.

It's the system which is destroying our talent. And these are the ones who have already gotten good exposure! There are a dozen more rotting in the domestic circuit because of one reason or another - mostly to do with corruption and nepotism.

 

[junaid.ahmed]

Correct.One cannot treat players as beggars.But one also has to bring in that discipline within the players and more importantly the culture.

look we have retired army officer as a manager, very rigid & inflexible coach, curfew system is also imposed nobody can move after 10. what is this yar are these the students of cadet school let them enjoy there life rather treat them like cricket prisoners.

Waqar strictness is nothing if you compared it with imran's but it always remained in cricket & at parallel imran always let his players to enjoy their life either they went late night parties or any other thing which they love.

 

[cricketindiafan]

look we have retired army officer as a manager, very rigid & inflexible coach, curfew system is also imposed nobody can move after 10. what is this yar are these the students of cadet school let them enjoy there life rather treat them like cricket prisoners.

Waqar strictness is nothing if you compared it with imran's but it always remained in cricket & at parallel imran always let his players to enjoy their life either they went late night parties or any other thing which they love.

Most professional sports teams have similar rules and deadlines which even superstars playing for those teams have to follow. If they dont they get sacked. Not sure why a disciplined regime can be bad in any sense.

 

[junaid.ahmed]

Most professional sports teams have similar rules and deadlines which even superstars playing for those teams have to follow. If they dont they get sacked. Not sure why a disciplined regime can be bad in any sense.

indeed there must be some rules but at the same times those rules surely giving some place to the players to live & enjoy a balance life.
Dhoni's way of working is the best example

 

[cricketindiafan]

indeed there must be some rules but at the same times those rules surely giving some place to the players to live & enjoy a balance life.
Dhoni's way of working is the best example

Most of us Indian fans and our experts think our team under Dhoni takes practice sessions very lightly which reflects in their below par test performances series after series!!

 

[junaid.ahmed]

Most of us Indian fans and our experts think our team under Dhoni takes practice sessions very lightly which reflects in their below par test performances series after series!!

where I said player should skip his practice sessions or training over his extra curriculum activities, priorities should be define but give some room to the players to breath freely & this will make them better performer.

Pakistan team use to spend most of the time o/s their country no social life no friends gathering no family time just play cricket & back to hotel room, c'mon yar they are human beings treating them like prisoners will not work

 

[Sidilicious]

Pakistan definitely may not have extreme cricketing talent but it has talent nonetheless. Every cricketing nation has talent. The thing is spotting this talent at the right time. When the best batsman in the past 6 years is selected at the age of 34 you know something is wrong. Similarly Irfan selected at the age of 30 + when most fast bowlers are at the back end of their careers. Irfan in his 20s most probably wouldn't have broken down after every 2 matches. Ajmal was spotted in his 30s too. Yea I know he's a chucker but before then we didn't know that.
I know it is VERY cliche to say this but Umar Akmal has talent. I hate this batsman purely because of the showcase of talent he was as a 19 year old early in his career. The guy wasn't as succesful as he could have been because Pakistan domestic is a mess. The guy was dropped to improve himself and he came back worse than before. This problem with the system has been going on for decades. It's nothing new. Wasim, Waqar and Inzi weren't the selectors first choice but they were Imran's first choice. Infact Imran had to plea to them to play Inzi in the WC. Mohammad Amir who was the best pace prospect to come out of Pakistan in 10 years was spotted by Wasim. Most of the talent comes "outside the system". The domestic circuit is in shambles. If you turn on the tv and watch some of the domestic matches most players are quiet embarrassing to watch.
Pakistan isn't any less talented or more talented than any other cricket nation. How is it that for a country which has produced some of the ATG and with such a rich history of cricket cannot produce talent. It is almost unheard of. It cannot be that a country with cricket as the most popular game have no talents. The thing is stuff like this got exposed as soon as Imran left. Post Imran which player has Pakistan produced which ended up being an ATG for Pak??

You are giving too much emphasis on the once in a blue moon - Wasim, Waqar, Inzi type of talent. You build a winning team by having a team of 11 talented players who have put in the hard yards. Players like the 2Ws and Inzi are found once in a while, you cant expect them to turn up every time a captain has a training camp.

Its in the domestic system, that a player develops. In fact, its after the U-19 level that a player really develops from a potentially talented to a really talented one.

Remember, even Sachin had put in hard yards in domestic cricket for Mumbai before he was selected for Test Cricket.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

You are giving too much emphasis on the once in a blue moon - Wasim, Waqar, Inzi type of talent. You build a winning team by having a team of 11 talented players who have put in the hard yards. Players like the 2Ws and Inzi are found once in a while, you cant expect them to turn up every time a captain has a training camp.

Its in the domestic system, that a player develops. In fact, its after the U-19 level that a player really develops from a potentially talented to a really talented one.

Remember, even Sachin had put in hard yards in domestic cricket for Mumbai before he was selected for Test Cricket.

The two Ws weren't just handed everything. They worked probably harder than anyone when they were selected. What I'm saying is that Raw talent is being wasted on the domestics in Pakistan. The domestics are ruining Pak cricket. Don't you think it's weird that in the last 10 years Pak has won the U19 title twice and reached the final twice (most recently in 2014)?? Talent is there but the domestic circuit has absolutely no idea to channel it into something productive. Umar Akmal is the perfect example of this and how domestics made his career worse. India's domestic is WAAYYY ahead of Pakistan's domestic.

Also this is a VERY understated comment but lack of international cricket in Pakistan is hurting the team ALOT

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Blaming lack of talent is pretty stupid considering what Pakistan has done on under 19 level. So lack of talent is not the problem. It is domestic system and lack of international cricket in Pakistan

 

[MMHS]

look we have retired army officer as a manager, very rigid & inflexible coach, curfew system is also imposed nobody can move after 10. what is this yar are these the students of cadet school let them enjoy there life rather treat them like cricket prisoners.

Waqar strictness is nothing if you compared it with imran's but it always remained in cricket & at parallel imran always let his players to enjoy their life either they went late night parties or any other thing which they love.

You have not much idea about the lifestyle of pro sportsmen, I understand.

Top 5 leagues in world (EPL, La Liga, League 1, Bundesliga, Seria A); at an average players are paid about EURO 35K/Week - AFTER TAX (sometimes the Tax is 75%, so Ibrahamovic is paid by PSG, 450,000 EURO/week), on top of that the endorsements, sponsorships & bonuses.

Now, almost every club has diet chart & someone Wayen Rooney was fined 1 week wage for ..................... eating sugar (Sir Alex had strict rule - no sugar during EPL season)

C Rod was given a sleeping chart by Real's head trainer - 10 PM bed. For one night he made in 30 minutes late - Mou made his countrymen train alone(ultimate insult to a team player) for next day.

PAK players need an ill tempered, wrong headed, sadist & vindictive Army General as their manager - Waquar is very soft & kind - I AM NOT JOKING. If a professional cricketer is required to remind coming on time or avoid fishy contacts, it's a problem - for the player. BCB is nowhere in professionalism - but Al Amin was send back from breaking ream curfew.

 

[Saj]

Pakistan cricket has been blessed and I would say lucky that some of our great players over the years have been spotted by chance by other players. We all know how the likes of Wasim, Waqar etc etc were spotted.

However that luck could not have gone on forever. The coach's and those being paid by the PCB to nurture and spot the talent need to get their finger out and do their jobs.

 

[Chrish]

You have not much idea about the lifestyle of pro sportsmen, I understand.

Top 5 leagues in world (EPL, La Liga, League 1, Bundesliga, Seria A); at an average players are paid about EURO 35K/Week - AFTER TAX (sometimes the Tax is 75%, so Ibrahamovic is paid by PSG, 450,000 EURO/week), on top of that the endorsements, sponsorships & bonuses.

Now, almost every club has diet chart & someone Wayen Rooney was fined 1 week wage for ..................... eating sugar (Sir Alex had strict rule - no sugar during EPL season)

C Rod was given a sleeping chart by Real's head trainer - 10 PM bed. For one night he made in 30 minutes late - Mou made his countrymen train alone(ultimate insult to a team player) for next day.

PAK players need an ill tempered, wrong headed, sadist & vindictive Army General as their manager - Waquar is very soft & kind - I AM NOT JOKING. If a professional cricketer is required to remind coming on time or avoid fishy contacts, it's a problem - for the player. BCB is nowhere in professionalism - but Al Amin was send back from breaking ream curfew.

You sir are legendary poster! I learn something new everyday just from reading your posts

 

[Sidilicious]

Pakistan cricket has been blessed and I would say lucky that some of our great players over the years have been spotted by chance by other players. We all know how the likes of Wasim, Waqar etc etc were spotted.

However that luck could not have gone on forever. The coach's and those being paid by the PCB to nurture and spot the talent need to get their finger out and do their jobs.

I believe thats the fault in Pakistan Cricket. You expect your coaches to hold training camps and unearth once in a blue moon players like Waqar, Wasim and Inzi. As I have stated above, such players will only be found once in a blue moon. Majority of your players will be those who have graduated from domestic level as successful performers. The only way to build a winning team is to have a brilliant domestic structure, where the performers have been thoroughly tested and have shown the mental as well as technical ability. Looking at India, all the young prodigies - Tendulkar, Kohli, Kumble and put in the hard yards in the domestic structure before they graduated to the international level.

Now, whatever little I know of Pakistani culture, it seems to based on a personality, the messiah. Like Imran for cricket, or again Imran for Politics, or Bhutto for politics. It seems like Pakistan is always waiting for that one person to come and fix it all. Thats not how successful countries/teams work. In order to sustain success, one needs to put in the hard yards, and be ready to face some less successful years initially.

Yes, Pakistan lost to Bangladesh. Yes, the results haven't been all that great over the last few years. But, now is when you need patience. I do think, given all the handicaps of the Pakistani domestic structure, the PCB is doing the right thing by going for stability and consistency (in Misbah first, and now Azhar Ali). This will lead to some failures now, but will do them good in the long run.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Why does this myth exist?

Why do so many hold to the notion that on the streets of Pakistan potentially world class cricketers are roaming around but they are being shafted and not given a chance due ot the poor system and/or not being selected?

Is it just a defense mechanism for the obvious that our talent stocks are at an all time low and barring maybe 1 or 2, the 15 man squads we generally select ARE the best players in the country?

As a cricketing nation, we wont be able to get out of our rut, Till we get out of this mindset that some magical fast bowler like Shoaib or an Inzy like batsmen is roaming around the streets of Lahore and Karachi but are not playing for Pakistan due to the system in place. Real and mature talent always rises to the top regardless of the obstacles it faces

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...k-cricket-and-the-sad-story-behind-Umar-Akmal

 

[Neferpitou]

Even if it is the truth, talent without a systematic approach will always fail internationally.

In Football, Germany and Brazil are perfect examples.

Let's say if Pakistan were to replicate the talent of the 90s, they'll always struggle to beat SA and Aus simply because their mental game, preparation is far superior.

 

[junaid.ahmed]

You have not much idea about the lifestyle of pro sportsmen, I understand.

Top 5 leagues in world (EPL, La Liga, League 1, Bundesliga, Seria A); at an average players are paid about EURO 35K/Week - AFTER TAX (sometimes the Tax is 75%, so Ibrahamovic is paid by PSG, 450,000 EURO/week), on top of that the endorsements, sponsorships & bonuses.

Now, almost every club has diet chart & someone Wayen Rooney was fined 1 week wage for ..................... eating sugar (Sir Alex had strict rule - no sugar during EPL season)

C Rod was given a sleeping chart by Real's head trainer - 10 PM bed. For one night he made in 30 minutes late - Mou made his countrymen train alone(ultimate insult to a team player) for next day.

PAK players need an ill tempered, wrong headed, sadist & vindictive Army General as their manager - Waquar is very soft & kind - I AM NOT JOKING. If a professional cricketer is required to remind coming on time or avoid fishy contacts, it's a problem - for the player. BCB is nowhere in professionalism - but Al Amin was send back from breaking ream curfew.

I cant agree, the players you mentioned must be following the rules but during the season only, I will be glad if they follow this schedule 7/12 because nobody can

 

[MMHS]

I cant agree, the players you mentioned must be following the rules but during the season only, I will be glad if they follow this schedule 7/12 because nobody can

Exactly, during the season - however, European leagues start by 1st week of August (1 month before preparation starts, which is midy July) & finishes in mid May. In every even year (20012, 14..... ) there is World Cup or Euro from 1st week of June to 1st week of July; while every odd year, there is Copa. So, Suarez, Neymer & Messi 'll play CL final on 4th week of May (Or last league match previous Sunday), 'll enjoy 3 days break, then by 1st week of June 'll join their team in Chille - all 3 should reach till SF at least, so it's 1st week of July, then 1 weeks of holiday & by 20th they 'll join Nucamp - Spanish League starts in 3 weeks. Same schedule 'll be for CR & Benzema in 2016, this time for Euro. I said - these guys are professional, they are paid (albeit a bit too much for one person kicking a leather ball), & they earn their wage.

I add another story - at 7'1", 320lbs, Shaquil O'Neals biggest enemy was body weight & Head Coach Phil Jackson. During 4 months off season, O'neal 'll have to send his authenticated body weight to Jackson, once a week - anything out of limit, he 'll have to return to Lakers gym, until Big Phil is comfortable - every holiday activity is cancel.

Professional players are very well paid, superstar slaves - they live a life like both a commando & slave. You 'll find lots of players leaving, retiring even at pick of career (at least from National duty to off-load pressure), because often they can't take that life once in family with kids.

I amend my my previous comment - an active General should be the team Manager, so that he can use deshi style 3rd degree, if required. You are talking about sometime - for PAK players, sometimes even doesn't come during WC. You 'll be surprised to read what Football Managers impose on their player during WC/Euro/Copa. Highest I have read is mobile gag, watching tv or newspaper (so that they are not distracted with negative news), &.......... not even meet/talk with WAG or children, for 6 weeks.

 

[pathan strikes]

well well well....... this is not myth..........we have talent but its the biggest set back that we dont use it properly.... take sadaf hussain for instance..... and also some of out talented players arent that responsible that causes their repeated faliures

 

[pathan strikes]

yes mann...... if imran khan didnt discover him...... there was no swing of sultan for us

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I cant agree, the players you mentioned must be following the rules but during the season only, I will be glad if they follow this schedule 7/12 because nobody can

Man you have no idea about football.

 

[Slog]

Just not on the same level as other top international cricketers

We can talk all night about things like proper coaching, fitness, professionalism etc etc (which are all important) but the base of the problem is that the talent stocks in Pakistan are at an all time low.

The quality is not there and the stocks in domestic cricket are not better so there's no point in being delusional and hiding behind excuses and insecurities like 'talent is there,' 'selectors don't select the best team etc etc.'

In batting especially it is embarrassing and makes me wanna cry

 

[shah_1]

We lack talent.

What a decline, so sad about it.

 

[ChachaCricket]

Talent doesn't equate to performance at the international level. The premise of your thread is flawed.

Our player are highly deficient technically which is the real concern.

 

[Indiafan]

Talent doesn't equate to performance at the international level. The premise of your thread is flawed.

Our player are highly deficient technically which is the real concern.

As an example, Jadeja is not one of the most talented but he is mentally strong and can contribute to all three facets

 

[Bhaijaan]

As an example, Jadeja is not one of the most talented but he is mentally strong and can contribute to all three facets

He is talented.

His talent is bowling though.

Pakistan misses genuine batting talent. They have sloggers mostly.

 

[Bhaijaan]

As an example, Jadeja is not one of the most talented but he is mentally strong and can contribute to all three facets

He is talented.

His talent is bowling though.

Pakistan misses genuine batting talent. They have sloggers mostly.

 

[Markhor]

Its not just a lack of talent but an appalling mental fragility under pressure. Pakistan repeatedly shot themselves in the foot.

What's the excuse for Mohammad Hafeez to waft at deliveries way outside off like that ? What's the excuse for Sharjeel to play a cut shot against a ball so close to his body ? Is there any explanation for Malik's beyond pathetic drive at a ball WAY outside off ? Then supposedly one of the biggest talents in the country in Umar Akmal plays the ball down the wrong line gets lbw by a straight delivery by Yuvraj Singh.

Manzoor produces a comedy GIF for the ages with his run-out and Afridi goes for a non-existent second run.

That's SIX wickets right there - just can't do that against quality opposition, India were sharp in the field but boy we made it so easy for them. Serious inquiry needed after this debacle.

 

[Mamoon]

Time for us to accept that we are in terminal decline and will be minnows in the near future.

 

[Slog]

Iss talent ko lo , uss ki batti banao aur 'bauhat talent hai' walay crowd....

 

[Slog]

Honestly we have given a record number of debuts/recalls in the last 2 years. All these guys were killing it in domestics and majority are average players in internationals. And when you talk about most of them individually they are apparently very talented

Amir
Sharjeel
Babar
Nawaz
Yasir
Rizwan
Gohar
Saad Nasim
Manzoor
Latif
Yamin
Hasan Ali
Fawad Alam
Malik
Shehzad
Akmal
Bhatti
Anwar Ali
Haris

I'm sure I've missed tons

 

[StreetSmart]

I can proudly say Pakistan deserve to play Qualifiers. Hopeless team

 

[aukhan]

Iss talent ko lo , uss ki batti banao aur 'bauhat talent hai' walay crowd....

hahahahaha I second that.

 

[Ind_Yeah]

Problem for Pakistan is not "talent" per se. Problem is, international cricket has moved beyond the stage where you could be consistently successful with just skill and talent. You have to be polished and professional in addition to pure skills. That's where Pakistan has lacked for the last 15 years or so.

What is puzzling is that the PCB just hasn't made any discernible progress in addressing this issue. If anything, the underlying systems are getting progressively weaker. Its unfortunate really. With 6-7 top tier teams playing the sport, cricket can't afford atrophy in teams like the WI and Pak. But the boards really are dysfunctional and not getting the job done.

Meanwhile, Poor field placing and bowling plans leads to a slash boundary off of Wahab - classic example of unprofessional execution. Put the thirdman fine, if you are going to bowl there, or bowl straight if the field is not there. Not questioning Wahab's talent or spirit, but unprofessional execution there.

 

[PTI]

Pakistan has talent but is not groomed properly but nepotism in selection process e.g un-deserving players keeps getting free ride.

 

[Slog]

Problem for Pakistan is not "talent" per se. Problem is, international cricket has moved beyond the stage where you could be consistently successful with just skill and talent. You have to be polished and professional in addition to pure skills. That's where Pakistan has lacked for the last 15 years or so.

What is puzzling is that the PCB just hasn't made any discernible progress in addressing this issue. If anything, the underlying systems are getting progressively weaker. Its unfortunate really. With 6-7 top tier teams playing the sport, cricket can't afford atrophy in teams like the WI and Pak. But the boards really are dysfunctional and not getting the job done.

Meanwhile, Poor field placing and bowling plans leads to a slash boundary off of Wahab - classic example of unprofessional execution. Put the thirdman fine, if you are going to bowl there, or bowl straight if the field is not there. Not questioning Wahab's talent or spirit, but unprofessional execution there.

Very good post. POTW level [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=138379]#GreenRoars[/MENTION]

I always point to Pakistan's experience with international t20s. In the early years international t20s was considered a hit and smash game which relied on flair, aggression and natural talent. The tactical work and strategy behind it was not to the level used in tests and ODIs. And in those years (2007-2011-12) Pakistan was by and far the top t20 nation in the world

But since then t20s are taken much more seriously in terms of preparation with a lot of background work done and since then Pak has fallen behind

 

[OmaIR1]

This has been debunked many times.

It's an illusion that passionate Pakistani cricket fans are blinded by. I liked how a lot of people pointed fingers at Afridi for being the root cause (lol) for this demise. And then he retired and we lost an ODI series to Bangladesh. Many months later not much has changed. Pakistani bench talent are no where near the international standard. We are far, far behind, playing traditional cricket and lacking in natural talent.

Lack of participation in the IPL and exposure is definitely a large factor.

 

[cricketInsight]

Honestly we have given a record number of debuts/recalls in the last 2 years. All these guys were killing it in domestics and majority are average players in internationals. And when you talk about most of them individually they are apparently very talented

Amir
Sharjeel
Babar
Nawaz
Yasir
Rizwan
Gohar
Saad Nasim
Manzoor
Latif
Yamin
Hasan Ali
Fawad Alam
Malik
Shehzad
Akmal
Bhatti
Anwar Ali
Haris

I'm sure I've missed tons

Agreed - it is not that whatever talent exists is not being given a chance - pretty much everyone who has performed at the domestic level has got his chance.

The ODI & T20 game has just moved beyond our skillset and understanding of the game in those formats. There are no easy fixes for this as many knee jerk PPers would suggest.

I dont care who you have in the PCB leadership, selection panel, and coaching staff - there are only 3 players that are automatic selections in the ODI squad: Babar, Sarfraz, and Amir. And by the way none of these are world beaters either but they are clearly ahead in our pack. Now you have 8 slots to fill but not enough quality players to take those spots. How can we expect any better?

Another way of looking at this is if you were making a squad of that is a combination of Pakistan & WI players, how many Pakistanis would you pick? Do the same exercise with Bangladesh. These are teams ranked 7 and 8 - forget about the rest.

You get my point now.

 

[Ind_Yeah]

To continue the thought from my previous post about Wahab's bowling. Eoin Morgan scored 57 from 27 balls today. Go to cricinfo and look at his pitch-maps. He was bowled four short balls targeting the stumps. All of them were dots. He was fed a bouquet of short and good length balls wide enough for him to free his arms and he predictably slapped a bunch of them for sixes and fours.

This sort of mental failure has nothing to do with talent. Everything to do with temperament, and preparation. In Modern ODI cricket, you will concede big totals, but at least make the opposition beat you rather than feeding their strengths. This is where Pakistan are very weak.

Maybe this series will be the rude awakening that gets them going in the right direction. But you have to practice professional cricket for a while before you can execute it under pressure at the highest level. If you are used to just winging it with 80s style plans at the FC level, you can't suddenly change your method at the international level.

 

[#GreenRoars]

Shahid Afridi was right, there is no talent who is suitable to modern cricket.

 

[aabbasi]

Define Talent ?
> If it is about hitting cover drives, cuts, pulls - Definitely.
> If it is about combining the technical skills in cricket and using it in match situations - Zero.

Example:
Question: Can Wahab bowl a reverse swinging yorker?
Answer: Yes

Question: Can we bowl it in a situation where he has been hit for a couple of fours, and the batsman is wide on the offstump lining him up to hit on the leg side?
Answer: Do i even need to answer this??


So Talent itself is nothing unless you know how to use it in match situations, which is a skill you only learn by playing competitive cricket at various levels before coming to the international scene.

 

[nish_mate]

bhai talent ko thoda daal saabzi khilaao, aqal aayegi thodi....

gosht khaa te rahoge to brawn hi hoga, brain naahi

 

[Abdullah]

Afridi told us this in the PSL and we laughed at him thinking he was using it to cling on himself
For what its worth I agree with [MENTION=377]aabbasi[/MENTION]
Talent and tempermant and match awareness are different

 

[Chrish]

Pak always had talent for decent pace bowlers

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Problem for Pakistan is not "talent" per se. Problem is, international cricket has moved beyond the stage where you could be consistently successful with just skill and talent. You have to be polished and professional in addition to pure skills. That's where Pakistan has lacked for the last 15 years or so.

What is puzzling is that the PCB just hasn't made any discernible progress in addressing this issue. If anything, the underlying systems are getting progressively weaker. Its unfortunate really. With 6-7 top tier teams playing the sport, cricket can't afford atrophy in teams like the WI and Pak. But the boards really are dysfunctional and not getting the job done.

Meanwhile, Poor field placing and bowling plans leads to a slash boundary off of Wahab - classic example of unprofessional execution. Put the thirdman fine, if you are going to bowl there, or bowl straight if the field is not there. Not questioning Wahab's talent or spirit, but unprofessional execution there.

Good post.

 

[proud_pakistani]

The talented players are either spot fixers or banned for their bowling actions. The other talented players are not able to play due to disciplinary reasons.

 

[Cricketrenew]

There is plenty of talent in Pakistan but just lack of uncles in the right place for most of the players.

 

[Markhor]

For all the endless talk on this forum on how we somehow have worldbeaters waiting in the wings but are being cruelly put down by evil coaches/selectors - go watch this National T20 Cup.

Many teams and players are exhibiting the same flaws as the senior team. Where's the powerhitters ? Where's the dynamic batsmen who can rotate strike and find the gaps ? Where's the natural strokeplayers ?

What missing gems are being ignored ? What player are we ignoring that is going to catapult us to WT20 and World Cup finals ?

 

[shah_1]

For all the endless talk on this forum on how we somehow have worldbeaters waiting in the wings but are being cruelly put down by evil coaches/selectors - go watch this National T20 Cup.

Many teams and players are exhibiting the same flaws as the senior team. Where's the powerhitters ? Where's the dynamic batsmen who can rotate strike and find the gaps ? Where's the natural strokeplayers ?

What missing gems are being ignored ? What player are we ignoring that is going to catapult us to WT20 and World Cup finals ?

You get such players due to pitches in domestic cricket. Slow and low pitches will never will give you good stroke players.

PCB needs to start producing flat patthas for List A matches

 

[Slog]

For all the endless talk on this forum on how we somehow have worldbeaters waiting in the wings but are being cruelly put down by evil coaches/selectors - go watch this National T20 Cup.

Many teams and players are exhibiting the same flaws as the senior team. Where's the powerhitters ? Where's the dynamic batsmen who can rotate strike and find the gaps ? Where's the natural strokeplayers ?

What missing gems are being ignored ? What player are we ignoring that is going to catapult us to WT20 and World Cup finals ?

I've been saying this for a while

Over the past 2.5 years we must have given debuts to 20 or so players. They were all great perfotmers in domestics but usually look like headless chickens when they play international

Hopefully PSL in the long term will help in solving the ability to play under pressure and how to make the correct choices. And it may bring our players to realise and learn what is required in the modern game because PSL can be the cash cow which forces and motivates even players at domestic leve to shape up. But if the talent is not there then really can't do much

 

[The_Odd_One]

For all the endless talk on this forum on how we somehow have worldbeaters waiting in the wings but are being cruelly put down by evil coaches/selectors - go watch this National T20 Cup.

Many teams and players are exhibiting the same flaws as the senior team. Where's the powerhitters ? Where's the dynamic batsmen who can rotate strike and find the gaps ? Where's the natural strokeplayers ?

What missing gems are being ignored ? What player are we ignoring that is going to catapult us to WT20 and World Cup finals ?

After today's game, let me guess:

1. Umar Akmal
2. Ahmed Shehzad
3. Salman Butt
4. Sohaib Maqsood
5 . Saud Shakil

And when they will be selected and fail again then we will cry for:

1. Sami Aslam
2. Sharjeel Khan
3. Babar Azam
4. Mohammad Rizwan
5. Mohammad Nawaz

 

[Slog]

You get such players due to pitches in domestic cricket. Slow and low pitches will never will give you good stroke players.

PCB needs to start producing flat patthas for List A matches

Currently we'll lose to England on every kind of wicket as far as one days are concerned

 

[arehaan]

It's drying up surely and the selection policies are not helping anyone

 

[shah_1]

Currently we'll lose to England on every kind of wicket as far as one days are concerned

I'm talking about young players development It's a problem that has been stated by many domestic players

 

[IAJ]

At the moment we don't have much to talk about, if there is any talent people will know that. The mobile phones, social media are almost available in every corner of Pakistan so if there are some extreme talents we will surely get to know about them.