The new income tax regime is made to kill Pakistan's middle class

[WebGuru]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

see how no one in this thread talked about the new car token tax.

Because these people dont live in the country, have no ide of the ground realities, but still talk about implementing rules that wont affect them but affect us.

Its like a guy from Hong Kong living in UK and saying that China is doing the right thing against them

Not confirmed yet by FBR but i think FBR will issue a clarification later. I noticed a PTI rep pointing out this is not per annum here is what he stated:

There is NO change in vehicles Token Tax. There is some disinformation circulating on whatsapp regarding increased token tax rates which is totally wrong & intended to misguide the public. These rates are applicable on transfer of vehicle

Note: the word annual seems to be a mistake

 

[WebGuru]

One thing i will admit as a PTI supporter this Govt is a failure when it comes to handling media and disinformation and once the water is over the bridge they wake up to issue a clarification they don't know how to counter propaganda and disinformation.

To give you an example:

A person earning 1 lakh rupees per month will now have a to pay 2500 rupees tax per month which is half of 5000 rupees tax per month that he was paying in past but still media is gone crazy over these taxes.

(Exclude 2018 budget because it was election year so PMLN govt made many changes in tax to increase vote bank)

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

see how no one in this thread talked about the new car token tax.

Because these people dont live in the country, have no ide of the ground realities, but still talk about implementing rules that wont affect them but affect us.

Its like a guy from Hong Kong living in UK and saying that China is doing the right thing against them

Overseas Pakistanis are aware of the ground realities. I thought otherwise too, but I have come to the conclusion that they are just hypocrites who cannot be taken seriously. They would talk about "Naya Pakistan" from their armchairs in UK, U.S., Canada, Australia, Europe etc., but if you ask them to come back to Naya Pakistan if it is so great, they come up with a list of excuses and justifications.

This government has no clue. Their solution is to milk the middle-class cry and give amnesty schemes to the rich. That is their genius solution of solving Pakistan's economic woes. It is a circus.

 

[slipcatch]

Overseas Pakistanis are aware of the ground realities. I thought otherwise too, but I have come to the conclusion that they are just hypocrites who cannot be taken seriously. They would talk about "Naya Pakistan" from their armchairs in UK, U.S., Canada, Australia, Europe etc., but if you ask them to come back to Naya Pakistan if it is so great, they come up with a list of excuses and justifications.

This government has no clue. Their solution is to milk the middle-class cry and give amnesty schemes to the rich. That is their genius solution of solving Pakistan's economic woes. It is a circus.

I promise you after 5 years you will be eating your own words.

90% of the garbage you post is without merit and 99% is for seeking attention.

As someone who does business in Pakistan and overseas is well aware of burden it will have on middle class but I am okay with it.

 

[aqeelPK]

I promise you after 5 years you will be eating your own words.

90% of the garbage you post is without merit and 99% is for seeking attention.

As someone who does business in Pakistan and overseas is well aware of burden it will have on middle class but I am okay with it.

What makes you believe PTI will turn things around in 5 years? They are taking loans to pay out interests which means interests would increase further & more misery in coming years. What would they do when deposited amounts will be taken out by other countries in next few months? What would they do when they will have to clear out deferred as well as scheduled oil payments in couple of years time? Do you know all this taxation increase would result in only 15-20% revenue increase & that too if FBR defies the odds? What is Govt's plan to bring down inflation? What is the plan to keep exchange rates stable? What is the plan to increase exports? What is the plan to win back business community's trust & revive industry & PSX which are already shutting down? How is govt going to increase revenues? Imran Khan himself said the max collection could be 8,000bnRs in coming years which is still way less than required, our expenditures have already hit 8,200bnRs with expected revenue around 4,500bnRs.

I fully respect you being hopeful of your leader to deliver. But there must be something to hope on too by now. PTI's supporters only hope is IK would hang all corrupts & looters, bring back all the looted money which they believe is around 200bn$ (IK said few days ago its 10bn$, commission formed in first month said its around 800million$).
Hanging them all will never solve the problems, worst of the dictators failed to bring back a penny. This kind of campaigns against opposition have always resulted in protests/lockdowns/dharnas/fall of govt.

I am again very curious what makes PTI fans believe Imran Khan will turn things around in 5 years with his honesty/dedication & team of lotaas?

 

[slipcatch]

What makes you believe PTI will turn things around in 5 years? They are taking loans to pay out interests which means interests would increase further & more misery in coming years. What would they do when deposited amounts will be taken out by other countries in next few months? What would they do when they will have to clear out deferred as well as scheduled oil payments in couple of years time? Do you know all this taxation increase would result in only 15-20% revenue increase & that too if FBR defies the odds? What is Govt's plan to bring down inflation? What is the plan to keep exchange rates stable? What is the plan to increase exports? What is the plan to win back business community's trust & revive industry & PSX which are already shutting down? How is govt going to increase revenues? Imran Khan himself said the max collection could be 8,000bnRs in coming years which is still way less than required, our expenditures have already hit 8,200bnRs with expected revenue around 4,500bnRs.

I fully respect you being hopeful of your leader to deliver. But there must be something to hope on too by now. PTI's supporters only hope is IK would hang all corrupts & looters, bring back all the looted money which they believe is around 200bn$ (IK said few days ago its 10bn$, commission formed in first month said its around 800million$).
Hanging them all will never solve the problems, worst of the dictators failed to bring back a penny. This kind of campaigns against opposition have always resulted in protests/lockdowns/dharnas/fall of govt.

I am again very curious what makes PTI fans believe Imran Khan will turn things around in 5 years with his honesty/dedication & team of lotaas?

Why don't you wait 5 years and you will get your answers.

Right now, no matter what I say or how I say it, it won't matter to you nor it will convince you, not that I am trying to convince you.

But for yourself, lets start with the fact, corruption is and has been a huge problem.

 

[slipcatch]

What makes you believe PTI will turn things around in 5 years? They are taking loans to pay out interests which means interests would increase further & more misery in coming years. What would they do when deposited amounts will be taken out by other countries in next few months? What would they do when they will have to clear out deferred as well as scheduled oil payments in couple of years time? Do you know all this taxation increase would result in only 15-20% revenue increase & that too if FBR defies the odds? What is Govt's plan to bring down inflation? What is the plan to keep exchange rates stable? What is the plan to increase exports? What is the plan to win back business community's trust & revive industry & PSX which are already shutting down? How is govt going to increase revenues? Imran Khan himself said the max collection could be 8,000bnRs in coming years which is still way less than required, our expenditures have already hit 8,200bnRs with expected revenue around 4,500bnRs.

I fully respect you being hopeful of your leader to deliver. But there must be something to hope on too by now. PTI's supporters only hope is IK would hang all corrupts & looters, bring back all the looted money which they believe is around 200bn$ (IK said few days ago its 10bn$, commission formed in first month said its around 800million$).
Hanging them all will never solve the problems, worst of the dictators failed to bring back a penny. This kind of campaigns against opposition have always resulted in protests/lockdowns/dharnas/fall of govt.

I am again very curious what makes PTI fans believe Imran Khan will turn things around in 5 years with his honesty/dedication & team of lotaas?

Forgot to ask.

What would be your solution to Pakistan's problem within the parameter of reality.

Unless you provide solution then rest of it sound like moaning.

Please do not reply with, Fight against Army of Pakistan.

 

[aqeelPK]

Why don't you wait 5 years and you will get your answers.

Right now, no matter what I say or how I say it, it won't matter to you nor it will convince you, not that I am trying to convince you.

But for yourself, lets start with the fact, corruption is and has been a huge problem.

I am already getting my answers, feel no need to wait for 5 years. Just wanted to know what makes PTI fans to believe a complete turnaround will happen in next 4 years? Imran khan's honesty & agencies/institutes going after opposition is not the answer. Non PTI lovers have big question marks on Imran Khan's honesty after the way he took all corrupts into his party & gave them important position, also the way he is supporting his partners to spend money on horse trading, also the way he thrown out Asad Umar & brought in foreigners to lead economy.
Crackdown on opposition leaders happened many times before too in our history & nothing was gained. Nothing has so far been gained this time too.

 

[Couch Cricketer]

I am already getting my answers, feel no need to wait for 5 years. Just wanted to know what makes PTI fans to believe a complete turnaround will happen in next 4 years? Imran khan's honesty & agencies/institutes going after opposition is not the answer. Non PTI lovers have big question marks on Imran Khan's honesty after the way he took all corrupts into his party & gave them important position, also the way he is supporting his partners to spend money on horse trading, also the way he thrown out Asad Umar & brought in foreigners to lead economy.
Crackdown on opposition leaders happened many times before too in our history & nothing was gained. Nothing has so far been gained this time too.

Personally I am unhappy with some of the things Pti is doing and saying as I feel they are making promises but are either unwilling or unable to full fill those promises. I want them to complete 4 years before making judgement on their performance. As 10-12 months is too short a time for seeing any kind of real change on the ground.

 

[aukhan]

I promise you after 5 years you will be eating your own words.

90% of the garbage you post is without merit and 99% is for seeking attention.

As someone who does business in Pakistan and overseas is well aware of burden it will have on middle class but I am okay with it.

You are okay with it because it doesn't effect you.

Mamoon is the most sensible poster here who doesn't sugar coat things or live in fools land like some of you ignorant rich expats.

 

[aukhan]

Electricity tariffs increased as well. Quarter of my salary will now be used to pay electricity bills only. Literally every middle class/salaried guy i talk to is worrying about his domestic expenses. Government is literally forcing the middle class professionals to leave this country.

 

[Hamza_]

[MENTION=135368]aukhan[/MENTION]

Government doesn't wants us to live in Pakistan. You can't construct a home because the materials are now way too expensive, Vehicles are also out of reach now, Bills and Utilities going up and up.

There is nothing good about this country.

 

[Mamoon]

You are okay with it because it doesn't effect you.

Mamoon is the most sensible poster here who doesn't sugar coat things or live in fools land like some of you ignorant rich expats.

[MENTION=135368]aukhan[/MENTION]

Government doesn't wants us to live in Pakistan. You can't construct a home because the materials are now way too expensive, Vehicles are also out of reach now, Bills and Utilities going up and up.

There is nothing good about this country.

Don’t worry. After 5 years of visionary leadership, everything will be free in the Madinah riyasat of Pakistan.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Electricity tariffs increased as well. Quarter of my salary will now be used to pay electricity bills only. Literally every middle class/salaried guy i talk to is worrying about his domestic expenses. Government is literally forcing the middle class professionals to leave this country.

Whats the rate of inflation in Pakistan?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Electricity tariffs increased as well. Quarter of my salary will now be used to pay electricity bills only. Literally every middle class/salaried guy i talk to is worrying about his domestic expenses. Government is literally forcing the middle class professionals to leave this country.

That's brutal man....

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

One thing i will admit as a PTI supporter this Govt is a failure when it comes to handling media and disinformation and once the water is over the bridge they wake up to issue a clarification they don't know how to counter propaganda and disinformation.

To give you an example:

A person earning 1 lakh rupees per month will now have a to pay 2500 rupees tax per month which is half of 5000 rupees tax per month that he was paying in past but still media is gone crazy over these taxes.

(Exclude 2018 budget because it was election year so PMLN govt made many changes in tax to increase vote bank)

So you are saying tax has reduced by 50% and posters are needlessly moaning here?

Why the outcry then?

This doesnt add up at all.

 

[WebGuru]

So you are saying tax has reduced by 50% and posters are needlessly moaning here?

Why the outcry then?

This doesnt add up at all.

Tax is increased on items that's a reality no doubt about that but i was talking about taxes on salaries and token taxes on vehicles there is so much disinformation going on about these 2 things and a few others as well. Now there is a 30,000 rupees tax per year if you are earning 1.2 million a year i don't think it's that much. In 2017 Tax bracket started from anyone earning 400,000/year now it's increased to 600,000/year. (PMLN in final year before election increased it to 12 lakh to make voters happy and now people are comparing PTI's first budget with election year budget of PMLN govt that's apples vs oranges)

 

[Technics 1210]

Expat Pakistanis should not be paying attention to indigenous Pakistanis who admit they hate Pakistan and that Pakistan does not deserve to exist. Such people are the true enemies of Pakistan.

 

[amvbfm]

Tax is increased on items that's a reality no doubt about that but i was talking about taxes on salaries and token taxes on vehicles there is so much disinformation going on about these 2 things and a few others as well. Now there is a 30,000 rupees tax per year if you are earning 1.2 million a year i don't think it's that much. In 2017 Tax bracket started from anyone earning 400,000/year now it's increased to 600,000/year. (PMLN in final year before election increased it to 12 lakh to make voters happy and now people are comparing PTI's first budget with election year budget of PMLN govt that's apples vs oranges)

There is no doubt that the taxation regime during Nawaz's early tenure was harsher than the present one and there is also no doubt that the last year relief was part of a scorched earth policy to hamper the incoming government. But then this was a known factor and one that PTI needed to plan against. Similarly, everyone who knows basic economics knew about the artificial value of PKR and the impending BOP and fiscal crisis. This issue was being raised for a good few years by economists. Considering all this, it is highly surprising that the PTI think tank had not formulated a plan to counter this and by plan i mean both an economic plan and a media plan. Even if harsh steps had to be taken there should have been a clear plan to communicate with the people. But the PTI government has, in general, been highly disappointing in terms of planning and homework.

Coming to the actual taxation itself what makes this increase unpalatable is that
- It comes at a time when inflation has hit double digits, currency has depreciated and utility and oil prices have gone up simultaneously so even a minimal increase feels like a large one
- There are still questions about the widening of the tax base and while there are indications that there will be an effort there is still skepticism about whether the government will actually tax the real evaders and rich classes

I think people should empathize with the problems being faced by common salaried Pakistanis rather than criticizing them for their grievances are totally valid.

 

[slipcatch]

You are okay with it because it doesn't effect you.

Mamoon is the most sensible poster here who doesn't sugar coat things or live in fools land like some of you ignorant rich expats.

Neither I'm ignorant nor I'm rich but you have exposed your ignorance by assuming anything and everything about me or others, good for you.

Mamoon would be a sensible poster had he given solution instead of moaning and crying about everything and any attempt to make Pakistan better.

So, please provide a solution to a problem within the parameter of a reality of Pakistan.

And let me make it easy for you, return of PML-N, PPP and MQM is not a solution.

Go on, tell us, how would you solve Pakistan's issue without taking difficult steps.

And, yea, i have businesses in Pakistan that will be effected but I tend to see long term as a solution not short term gains.

Go ahead, entertain this ignorant and supposedly rich guy.

 

[slipcatch]

Don’t worry. After 5 years of visionary leadership, everything will be free in the Madinah riyasat of Pakistan.

No! you "mohalay ki aunty", no need to exaggerate.

Nothing is free, even corruption comes at a cost. I thought you knew that.

But wait 4 more years and if nothing happen then you can sit on the corner of a street to moan and cry, until than you sound like a bitter aunty who only knows how to complain without providing solution.

 

[slipcatch]

I am already getting my answers, feel no need to wait for 5 years. Just wanted to know what makes PTI fans to believe a complete turnaround will happen in next 4 years? Imran khan's honesty & agencies/institutes going after opposition is not the answer. Non PTI lovers have big question marks on Imran Khan's honesty after the way he took all corrupts into his party & gave them important position, also the way he is supporting his partners to spend money on horse trading, also the way he thrown out Asad Umar & brought in foreigners to lead economy.
Crackdown on opposition leaders happened many times before too in our history & nothing was gained. Nothing has so far been gained this time too.

The reason, I don't want to entertain you because you think that every PIT supporter (not fan, another reason, you aren't serious about it) believe that Pakistan will turn in to Paris, London or NYC.

Those expectation are usually by mohalay ki aunties when they have nothing else to counter PTI.

And another played out argument from those who believe IK is a messiah, Asad Umar getting fired.

None of you have come up with any solution other than moaning and crying about 'mahengai".

Provide another option, solution, anything other than complaining and if you are't able to then you aren't serious about any discussion or you are not connected with reality.

Go ahead.

 

[Hamza_]

PTI is the worst thing to have happened. It is destroying our homes and lifes.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Tax is increased on items that's a reality no doubt about that but i was talking about taxes on salaries and token taxes on vehicles there is so much disinformation going on about these 2 things and a few others as well. Now there is a 30,000 rupees tax per year if you are earning 1.2 million a year i don't think it's that much. In 2017 Tax bracket started from anyone earning 400,000/year now it's increased to 600,000/year. (PMLN in final year before election increased it to 12 lakh to make voters happy and now people are comparing PTI's first budget with election year budget of PMLN govt that's apples vs oranges)

Ok thanks for this info.

If people have to pay up 1/4 th of their salary for electricity, it must hurt. A lot.

 

[aqeelPK]

Whats the rate of inflation in Pakistan?

Inflation rate crossed 9% from 5.8% in july 2018(highest since november 2013) despite raising benchmark interest rate to 12.25% from 6% in 2018.

 

[aqeelPK]

Forgot to ask.

What would be your solution to Pakistan's problem within the parameter of reality.

Unless you provide solution then rest of it sound like moaning.

Please do not reply with, Fight against Army of Pakistan.

1. Increase tax net. Small business community pays ZERO direct income tax. Bring in constitutional changes, make cash registers linked to ntn verified bank accounts compulsary. Record every transaction & automate tax deductions.

2. Increase tax net. Remove all loopholes (too many to mention here) in the system which allow tax chori.

3. Increase tax net. Abolish all tax exemptions given to various sectors (e.g. IT, textiles, sugar, LSM etc). They all are earning in billions certainly can afford a percentage in tax without affecting their businesses.'

4. Increase revenues. Complete ban on subsidies.

5. Increase revenues. Tax collections shouldn't be largest source of revenue. Generate revenue from state owned entities. Bring reforms, merit, competency, audit, austerity, transparency, performance based evaluations in state owned organizations just like in any private organization.

6. Increase revenues. Impose bans on luxury imports (e.g. cars, mobile phones, electronics, cosmetics etc, textile products). Promote Make in Pakistan.

7. Increase revenues. Beg for trade in intl markets to sell your own products (agri, textiles, leather garments, sports goodies) instead of always begging for loans.

8. Increase revenues. Promote local & intl tourism. Promotion shouldn't just be limited to tv & social media ad campaigns. Also provide better facilities at tourist destinations.

9. Circulate money. Impose ban on owning more than a defined limit of an static asset type (e.g. land, currency, saving accounts balance, bonds, foreign currency).

10. Revive LSM. Govt should invest instead of providing subsidies.

11. Fight corrupton at all levels by all means.

12. Win the trust of public. Speak the truth as simple as that.

13. Rule of law. No one should be above law not even army chief or chief justice.

14. Institutional reforms. All institutes should work independently & within their limits (look at parosi how did they manage that)

15. Law & order. abolish vip protocols, place security officials where they are needed. Speedy trials, more courts with more authority, transparent & automated police systems with ease of access.

16. Election system. Improve it. Current one never worked, not a single election in our history were results accepted by both govt & opposition yet it remained same all those years. No need to reinvent the wheel here, learn from other countries & implement.

17. Foreign policy. Stop supporting banned organizations. Improve relations with neighbors, get strategic depths, trade routes, resources etc through their respective govt instead of trying to conquer them through proxies.

18. Foreign policy. There are no friends no enemies, only interests in the world these days. Everyone looks after its own interests first. Do the same.

Could mention countless more points but just realized its of no use.

 

[slipcatch]

1. Increase tax net. Small business community pays ZERO direct income tax. Bring in constitutional changes, make cash registers linked to ntn verified bank accounts compulsary. Record every transaction & automate tax deductions.

2. Increase tax net. Remove all loopholes (too many to mention here) in the system which allow tax chori.

3. Increase tax net. Abolish all tax exemptions given to various sectors (e.g. IT, textiles, sugar, LSM etc). They all are earning in billions certainly can afford a percentage in tax without affecting their businesses.'

4. Increase revenues. Complete ban on subsidies.

5. Increase revenues. Tax collections shouldn't be largest source of revenue. Generate revenue from state owned entities. Bring reforms, merit, competency, audit, austerity, transparency, performance based evaluations in state owned organizations just like in any private organization.

6. Increase revenues. Impose bans on luxury imports (e.g. cars, mobile phones, electronics, cosmetics etc, textile products). Promote Make in Pakistan.

7. Increase revenues. Beg for trade in intl markets to sell your own products (agri, textiles, leather garments, sports goodies) instead of always begging for loans.

8. Increase revenues. Promote local & intl tourism. Promotion shouldn't just be limited to tv & social media ad campaigns. Also provide better facilities at tourist destinations.

9. Circulate money. Impose ban on owning more than a defined limit of an static asset type (e.g. land, currency, saving accounts balance, bonds, foreign currency).

10. Revive LSM. Govt should invest instead of providing subsidies.

11. Fight corrupton at all levels by all means.

12. Win the trust of public. Speak the truth as simple as that.

13. Rule of law. No one should be above law not even army chief or chief justice.

14. Institutional reforms. All institutes should work independently & within their limits (look at parosi how did they manage that)

15. Law & order. abolish vip protocols, place security officials where they are needed. Speedy trials, more courts with more authority, transparent & automated police systems with ease of access.

16. Election system. Improve it. Current one never worked, not a single election in our history were results accepted by both govt & opposition yet it remained same all those years. No need to reinvent the wheel here, learn from other countries & implement.

17. Foreign policy. Stop supporting banned organizations. Improve relations with neighbors, get strategic depths, trade routes, resources etc through their respective govt instead of trying to conquer them through proxies.

18. Foreign policy. There are no friends no enemies, only interests in the world these days. Everyone looks after its own interests first. Do the same.

Could mention countless more points but just realized its of no use.

Now please answer,

Out of PPP, PML-N and PTI, which one of them can get closer to implement those points that you have posted?

 

[WebGuru]

Looks like mobile recharge tax is decreased? Just did a recharge and 11% is deducted instead of the usual 23-24%

 

[WebGuru]

Looks like mobile recharge tax is decreased? Just did a recharge and 11% is deducted instead of the usual 23-24%

ok just Confirmed

Govt has reduced taxes on Mobile card, now will receive 89Rs on 100Rs recharge

 

[RameezRambo_Fan]

I promise you after 5 years you will be eating your own words.

90% of the garbage you post is without merit and 99% is for seeking attention.

As someone who does business in Pakistan and overseas is well aware of burden it will have on middle class but I am okay with it.

It took you this long to figure that out. Nothing mamoon says makes sense nor is it factual.

Let Apu cry.

 

[WebGuru]

I don't know why but even educated posters like [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] are confusing this whole traders strike issue. In this thread he was criticizing govt for taxes on salaried persons and was talking about getting the real culprits in tax net but now when Govt is actually trying to get them in tax net he is criticizing this move too. If we still keep traders and businesses out of the tax net thn what choice govt have except putting more burden on salaried persons?

This new condition of CNIC was a move toward finding the real culprits.

According to numbers retail sector in Pakistan contributes towards approx 20% of GDP but total tax collection from this sector is less thn 1%

Most of the tax paying traders and businesses are working normal today because they know they are not in trouble.

One simple question for [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] do you think this strike of traders is because of increase in taxes or prices? Thn why they never done it when prices of multiple items, gas, petrols etc were going up and only doing it after seeing this new condition of CNIC to get them in tax net? Because CNIC is going to be the new NTN number

Here are some letter that are sent to the dealers from companies that these companies will only give them the stock if they are filers and if they are non filers thn their CNIC will be used to document the transaction and that means they will endup in tax net.

 

[Savak]

As if Pakistan's economic challenges were not enough, the Corona Virus epidemic is the last thing the Pakistani nation and the PTI government needed

 

[Varun]

As if Pakistan's economic challenges were not enough, the Corona Virus epidemic is the last thing the Pakistani nation and the PTI government needed

Ask your Sweeter than Honey, rodent chomping pal to bail you out of the mess they created.

 

[Savak]

So what's the situation today?

 

[Kianig89]

BUMP

PDM & now PDM+ regime , common man in Pakistan in dire straits

 

[Kianig89]

Most important Solar Tax being loaded now, Net metering rates slashed from Rs. 27 to Rs.10

Solar industry in melt down, investor consumer in chaos!

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistani middle class must contribute. If you work hard this year, Sahebzada Sharif will be filing for a bigger tax fraud next year in London. This year he was only 2nd highest tax fraud. If you contribute he can be 1st.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Wow what a great bump.