The Pakistan team started to believe in its own hype - They deserve this humiliation

[MeanAndGreen]

The biggest elephant in the room is that we have too many accumulators in the team i.e. Sr 60-70 batsmen in Imam, Babar, Malik, Sarfaraz. That is just not good enough and is an outdated 90's brand of cricket.

Shadab is not a proper batsman, he does not have the proper technique to deliver consistently and does not bat a high strike rate. Mickey Arthur has wasted the last year and a half against minnows backing the wrong players because even these accumulators will look world class against minnows.

The selectors need to select the right players for the Modern T-20 and ODI format. Having plenty of aggressive batsmen in the team uplift even the accumulators.

Bhai the accumulators in Imam, Babar and Malik gave the only half respectable performances in this tournament.

Fakhar and Asif - the supposed stroke makers of this team - looked like they were batting for the first time in international cricket.

It's not as simple as SR. Pakistans issue is mentality, the players don't have the mental strength or the know how of how to manipulate gaps and get themselves out of pressure situations. The players aren't simply technically or mentally proficient enough against quality bowling and fielding .

Playing like Fakhar works against the minnows, it doesn't come off to often against the very best.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

What's the point? You're in for more disappointment...

Watched the last 15 mins of the match against Liverpool, Hazard's goal certainly helped the mood.

last year yeah, but given the new change, I am watching this season without any expectations, even if we don't get top 4 I wont mind, Emery has a blank cheque this season as long as i see improvments (which I am)

Its actually really relaxing, and apart from Man city we competed in every game

 

[barah_admi]

Too many silly gimmicks on social media. The championship bands. The talk about 'home advantage'.

Fans may have their heads in the air, but if the players start to believe in their own hype, then they deserve to lose.

Both Arthur and Malik have alluded to complacency and reality checks in their recent pressers. That means one thing. The team thought that it was better than it really was.

This team is not as bad as it looks. But they got used to beating minnows and forgot how to deal with real teams. Now comes the hard part. Bouncing back from such a devastating tournament is not easy and only those with character will be able to do it.

Some personnel changes might be required, but changing the whole team would be stupid at this stage, as it's a fairly young team. Young blood again will mean another long period of 'settling down' while we certainly do not need Shehzads, Akmals and Butts, along with other TTFs back in the team.

I disagree completely. I did not hear anything hyperbolic from the side and its players before or during the tournament. The most I heard was Mickey talking about beating India in the final, in quite a tongue in cheek sort of way. I heard a lot more talk from Indian fans and Bengali fans tbh and a lot more from Afghan players.

The reality is that these are some world class players but they played terrible cricket. It is common for a young team, in any sport, to have such drastic dips, part of the territory with age. The other, bigger issue for me is why so many failed so badly and that has got to be, in my experience, a back room staff problem. Tha tis what needs fixing.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

Why 4-0 away nz series don't count as 'humiliation' but 1-0 against bd count as 'humiliation'??????!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Abdullah719]

The most I heard was Mickey talking about beating India in the final, in quite a tongue in cheek sort of way.

Mickey's supposed statement about taking revenge in the final was fake news.

 

[Abdullah719]

Why 4-0 away nz series don't count as 'humiliation' but 1-0 against bd count as 'humiliation'??????!!!!!!!!!!

Don't take it personally, not everything is about Bangladesh.

This is about the collective performances in the tournament, from the start to the finish.

We competed better in the NZ series at times, and that was despite zilch preparation, and unfit players.

 

[Saj]

I have to admit I do worry about the return of the superstar syndrome.

There are a few players who already think they are world-beaters and were floating away on the Champions Trophy success and needed being knocked back to earth with a bang. This has happened and it could be a blessing in disguise.

 

[BD-fan]

My fear for the Pak team is, mgmt will take haste decisions and bring in Hafeez/Akmals back. That wouldn't be good for the team. This team is capable enough with minor changes.

 

[barah_admi]

Mickey's supposed statement about taking revenge in the final was fake news.

Ah, so nothing even to do with "believing in their own hype".

Pakistan came unstuck yes, but it had nothing to do with arrogance should be the thread title lol

 

[hadi123]

Agreed. Our fans as well. I was saying before this tournament that Pakistan can never do well when they are favourites. So many posters on here thought that without Kohli, India would have no choice. I kept saying that we shouldn't get too cocky. But we really have to bounce back. In the NZ series, we got smashed 5-0, we bashed minnows after that and came up against good teams again in this tournament and played awful. Let's see how we do against New Zealand.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Agreed. Our fans as well. I was saying before this tournament that Pakistan can never do well when they are favourites. So many posters on here thought that without Kohli, India would have no choice. I kept saying that we shouldn't get too cocky. But we really have to bounce back. In the NZ series, we got smashed 5-0, we bashed minnows after that and came up against good teams again in this tournament and played awful. Let's see how we do against New Zealand.

Maaf kardo bhai, aur kitni lo ge?

 

[Saj]

I think the Asia Cup debacle could be a blessing in disguise as I think and hope it will be a wake-up call for some of these guys who were getting a bit carried away with the hype.

 

[Savak]

I think the Asia Cup debacle could be a blessing in disguise as I think and hope it will be a wake-up call for some of these guys who were getting a bit carried away with the hype.

To be honest i am not sold on the players, i think we need to find better resources for certain positions. The team has too many 90's style accumulators for the modern ODI and T-20 game, we lack hitters at the death.

Team Selection is all wrong

 

[Saj]

To be honest i am not sold on the players, i think we need to find better resources for certain positions. The team has too many 90's style accumulators for the modern ODI and T-20 game, we lack hitters at the death.

Team Selection is all wrong

I think the problem is they are trying to fit T20 players into the 50 over team. That will not work for all players.

 

[the_outsider]

I think the problem is they are trying to fit T20 players into the 50 over team. That will not work for all players.

This. This is the problem. Picking ODI players from PSL is a terrible idea. Not only will it throw up players who don't know how to build a long innings (Asif Ali, Ashraf, etc) but what is worse is it will demotivate the players who are actually working hard in the domestic List A circuit. These players will then think that the only way into the national team is through PSL, thereby abandoning their proper game and focusing only on T20s, thereby repeating the same cycle.

 

[saadibaba]

Too many silly gimmicks on social media. The championship bands. The talk about 'home advantage'.

Fans may have their heads in the air, but if the players start to believe in their own hype, then they deserve to lose.

Both Arthur and Malik have alluded to complacency and reality checks in their recent pressers. That means one thing. The team thought that it was better than it really was.

This team is not as bad as it looks. But they got used to beating minnows and forgot how to deal with real teams. Now comes the hard part. Bouncing back from such a devastating tournament is not easy and only those with character will be able to do it.

Some personnel changes might be required, but changing the whole team would be stupid at this stage, as it's a fairly young team. Young blood again will mean another long period of 'settling down' while we certainly do not need Shehzads, Akmals and Butts, along with other TTFs back in the team.

Cannot agree more with the OP.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This. This is the problem. Picking ODI players from PSL is a terrible idea. Not only will it throw up players who don't know how to build a long innings (Asif Ali, Ashraf, etc) but what is worse is it will demotivate the players who are actually working hard in the domestic List A circuit. These players will then think that the only way into the national team is through PSL, thereby abandoning their proper game and focusing only on T20s, thereby repeating the same cycle.

Yeah picking ODI players fron PSL is a terrible idea but picking ODI and test players from IPL is a brilliant idea?

 

[Savak]

I think the problem is they are trying to fit T20 players into the 50 over team. That will not work for all players.

India's ODI and T-20 fortunes changed for the better via the IPL. The modern ODI and T-20 format is about aggressive batting. However the PSL selections need to be better, Franchises need to pick domestic performers who stand out and the PCB needs to include domestic performers in the draft.

Ofcourse the selectors should not completely ignore domestic selections either. Shan Masood didn't get a game in the PSL but was rewarded for his domestic performances.

The thing with Asif Ali is that he needed another thing up his sleeve. If he is just playing as a batsman then his failures with the bat become more pronounced but if he could offer something with the ball and in the field, then he wouldn't be scurtinized this much. I can understand why Micky wants hitters in the Limited overs and T-20 sides, he needs to find more players.

If only we could get Sharjeel back in the side and if Umar Akmal could have sorted out his fitness, discipline issues, ironed out his batting issued along with Sohaib Maqsood.

You can only have 2 players max in the ODI and T-20 team out of Imam, Malik, Sarfaraz, Babar, not more if you wish to compete with the top 5. This is only addressing the batting part.

 

[the_outsider]

Yeah picking ODI players fron PSL is a terrible idea but picking ODI and test players from IPL is a brilliant idea?

I have never supported that idea.

You can see my other posts in this forum where I have debated against bringing Pant into he ODI squad despite so many Indian posters here strongly feeling he should be in.

Reason is simple. His list A avg of 29.

I never encourage selecting players based just on IPL. It can be used as one of the measurements though, an icing on the cake, if you will.

Because the IPL gives selectors a good indication of how the player handles pressure situations in front of 30,000-strong crowd. That is something you can't do in the Vijay Hazare. But it should never be the sole criteria.

 

[Saj]

This. This is the problem. Picking ODI players from PSL is a terrible idea. Not only will it throw up players who don't know how to build a long innings (Asif Ali, Ashraf, etc) but what is worse is it will demotivate the players who are actually working hard in the domestic List A circuit. These players will then think that the only way into the national team is through PSL, thereby abandoning their proper game and focusing only on T20s, thereby repeating the same cycle.

Whilst many believe that a player who can do well in T2os can also do well in 50 over cricket, I don't think this is accurate or true. Yes you will get players who can succeed in both formats, but at the moment there seems to be this thinking amongst the selectors and the think-tank that just because players do well in the PSL, they can be successful in ODIs, which is utter rubbish.

 

[the_outsider]

Whilst many believe that a player who can do well in T2os can also do well in 50 over cricket, I don't think this is accurate or true. Yes you will get players who can succeed in both formats, but at the moment there seems to be this thinking amongst the selectors and the think-tank that just because players do well in the PSL, they can be successful in ODIs, which is utter rubbish.

I agree totally. The thing is, batsmen who are primarily T20 players will not have an understanding of how to build an ODI innings.

120 balls vs 300 balls

That's a massive difference. There's a lot more time and "batting for time" actually becomes a big aspect in ODI batting, especially in 250 runs games.

Bowlers can still be brought in based exclusively on T20 performances. But not batsmen.