The price of attritional cricket

[Dr_Bassim]

Pakistan were painstakingly slow in their first innings and it took entire sessions being wiped out to put them into action and finally get close to 450 on the 3rd day.

I am all for attritional cricket and batting at 2 runs per over for 6 sessions and grinding your way to 300 or 400 or even 500 when the pitch is tough and hard.

Accepting due ineptitude from our bowlers, the wicket today when Australia were batting revealed its true nature.

The very fact that a team scored nearly 280-300 runs in little under two sessions signified that the pitch was as flat as they come in Australia. They needed only 57 odd overs to get nearly 300.

A part of it can be explained by the horrible bowling of Yasir, who could not land the ball at the same place at the same time and the awfulness of Wahab who needed 9 balls every over to complete his over.

But leaving that aside, they were no demons in the pitch.

I watched the entire 1st day and some part of 2nd day and most of the 3rd day today. Pakistan's approach has always been safety first irrespective of the wicket. They just don't hit the bad balls often enough.

The usual suspects will defend this team and say that Australia played in different conditions to Pakistan. I would beg to disagree. Barring the first few hours of the 1st day, the conditions were not horribly different.

You only have to see how many times the ball missed the bats of Renshaw and Warner in the first 15 overs today to get a gauge of how the pitch was. It had some movement, but Australia still found it within their hearts to keep batting.

Going into shell is always going to be a problem for Pakistan while batting abroad. This was brutally exposed in New Zealand and it seems if Australia keep batting at this pace, it will be exposed again that , it's not the pitch that is tough, but we don't have the batsmen to play free strokes.

The ones that do play strokes, don't have the mental determination of hitting 100's (for instance Umar Akmal) to have a slight chance of being successful here.

I really admire our team for their UAE style of cricket. I really do. It worked in England to an extent too, because of the overrated English team and finding conditions to our liking in England and winning the toss as well.

But what happens when things don't go your way? You lose the toss? Do you still play attritional cricket and hope that 2 runs per over is going to win you the match ?

Misbah and Mickey Arthur better be ready for some answers after the Sydney test if Pakistan keep playing this way and batting both the teams out of winning equations every single time.

 

[Buffet]

To play different way you need to have batsmen who can play differently. Pakistani has gotten used to play attritional cricket so you can't expect something different.

When I pointed out that pitch was extremely good to bat despite Pakistan being 4 down , many PPers jumped on me as if my comment was to downplay Pakistani batsmen. I have gotten better at avoiding those kind of blunt comments which attracts attention from sensitive Pakistani fans, but some time you simply say it as you see it.

 

[Zohaib Shah]

Apperently "slow" is the new definition of the "flamboyance" for our team. We are happy to play slow as possible to get better results.

 

[Xoib]

We have not lost initiative due to our batting we got to 440 because of the hardwork done by Asad and Azhar or we could have folded for 250this is a flat track but at best Australia should have been 180=3 the bowling was garbage .

 

[waleed88]

If you watch the first 20 overs, Australia were 58/1 in 20... so that was attritional cricket for you.

However once they realized the pitch had no problems in it... they started going after the bowlers and thats where they lost the plot.. Australians also took their time and wore out the new ball.. they were very lucky in the first 10-15 overs to survive because of some very tight bowling. Australians also played attritional cricket, but they've played on these pitches all their lives

 

[Abdullah719]

To play different way you need to have batsmen who can play differently. Pakistani has gotten used to play attritional cricket so you can't expect something different.

When I pointed out that pitch was extremely good to bat despite Pakistan being 4 down , many PPers jumped on me as if my comment was to downplay Pakistani batsmen. I have gotten better at avoiding those kind of blunt comments which attracts attention from sensitive Pakistani fans, but some time you simply say it as you see it.

The pitch has been good to bat on through out but surely you can appreciate the difference between batting under heavy cloud cover with moisture in the air vs under the sun. Even the Aussie commentators were saying that the conditions were ideal for batting after the rain went away today.

Pakistan's game plan with the bat is well known, and I don't think a run-rate of 3.5 is particularly slow. However, when two of your main bowlers go at 6 an over then you have a major problem.

 

[Big Mac]

We have not lost initiative due to our batting we got to 440 because of the hardwork done by Asad and Azhar or we could have folded for 250this is a flat track but at best Australia should have been 180=3 the bowling was garbage .

We'd have scored more runs if we weren't going on and off constantly due to rain delays but it isn't the batting that's let us down in Melbourne.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

If you watch the first 20 overs, Australia were 58/1 in 20... so that was attritional cricket for you.

However once they realized the pitch had no problems in it... they started going after the bowlers and thats where they lost the plot.. Australians also took their time and wore out the new ball.. they were very lucky in the first 10-15 overs to survive because of some very tight bowling. Australians also played attritional cricket, but they've played on these pitches all their lives

And I said, the first two hours of Pakistan batting was fine on 1st day.

But we batted the same way over 3 days.

 

[Mamoon]

Our scoring rate would have been excellent if we wouldn't have lost 80 overs due to rain, but attritional cricket is the only way we our batsmen can score. Do you think Azhar can score big if he decides to bat like Warner?

 

[Big Mac]

Let's be honest here, if you want to blame anybody for letting Australia back into the game then blame Yasir Shah and to a lesser extent, Wahab Riaz.

Those are the two culprits.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Our scoring rate would have been excellent if we wouldn't have lost 80 overs due to rain, but attritional cricket is the only way we our batsmen can score. Do you think Azhar can score big if he decides to bat like Warner?

If we hadn't lost 80 overs, I can bet my life we wouldn't have slogged at the end like today.

We would have scored 450 but in 2 days or 2 days and one session.

We were forced to slog because of rain delays.

 

[Xoib]

And I said, the first two hours of Pakistan batting was fine on 1st day.

But we batted the same way over 3 days.

That is a lie.

Pakistan scored 163 runs in 31 overs since fall of Sarfraz wicket which in 5.3 an over also there was a big rain delay just when Azhar-Asad were getting the momentum. Our batting has been least of a problem this game till now.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

That is a lie.

Pakistan scored 163 runs in 31 overs since fall of Sarfraz wicket which in 5.3 an over also there was a big rain delay just when Azhar-Asad were getting the momentum. Our batting has been least of a problem this game till now.

When has Pakistan ever scored 450 in 4 sessions in 1st innings of a test match?

 

[Big Mac]

If we hadn't lost 80 overs, I can bet my life we wouldn't have slogged at the end like today.

We would have scored 450 but in 2 days or 2 days and one session.

We were forced to slog because of rain delays.

Let me get this straight.

You're saying if the whole test had been played in bright sunshine, Pakistan would have scored 450 at between 2.2 and 2.5 RPO?

 

[Fahdi]

Sohail and Amir were unlucky not to get a wicket but Wahab and Yasir were crap. Add to that Wahab's wicket off a no ball!!! Honestly this guy must have done this around 10 times this year.

 

[Xoib]

When has Pakistan ever scored 450 in 4 sessions in 1st innings of a test match?

they don't need to its not their style of play for that to happen you need atleast one Warner,Sehwag type player which we have never has. I don't get the premise of this thread sure the first test loss in NZL can be blamed for our attrition style of play but over here it has actually benefited us as it allowed us to ride through the tricky moments allowing the lower order to cash in when conditions got easy. Its the horrible bowling today that has put us in this mess batting has least to do with it and should be applauded for their effort. Cant expect any of this lot to match what Warner did there is no player in the world since McCullam retired who would have done this

 

[Mamoon]

If we hadn't lost 80 overs, I can bet my life we wouldn't have slogged at the end like today.

We would have scored 450 but in 2 days or 2 days and one session.

We were forced to slog because of rain delays.

Yes but slogging at the end is not the same as playing attacking cricket throughout. We do tend to play aggressively at the end but that is subject to Sarfraz's stay at the crease.

The point is that Pakistan cannot score 400+ if they decide to bat at 4 an over. Our batsmen simply don't have the shots to get on top of the bowling and score big. Azhar's ODI career shows what would have happen to him in Tests if he decides to bat aggressively.

 

[Big Mac]

As is my wont, I went back and looked at the number of times Pakistan have scored 400+ at less than 2.5 RPO. I felt it was the right thing given that OP says he would be willing to bet his life on this team's slow scoring. Don't want to make mistakes when dealing with such monumental stakes.

So, in the last 20 years Pakistan have scored 400 runs or more at a run rate of less than 2.5 RPO on just two occasions.

New Zealand v Pakistan at Napier, Dec 11-15, 2009 - Pakistan batted 193.2 overs for 455 runs (2.35 RPO) in the third innings to successfully save the test.

Pakistan v England at Lahore, Nov 15-19, 2000 - England, choosing to bat after winning the toss, scored 480 in the first innings. A Pakistan team containing legendarily dour, defensive batsmen such as Saeed Anwar, Afridi, Inzi, Youhana and Razzaq raced to 401 all out from 163.3 overs (2.45 RPO).


Conclusion - The current Pakistan team has never scored that slowly when amassing big totals so the good doctor's life is now forfeit and in future we should refrain from making bold claims until we've had time to check the facts lest more PPers be forced to commit seppuku.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

As is my wont, I went back and looked at the number of times Pakistan have scored 400+ at less than 2.5 RPO. I felt it was the right thing given that OP says he would be willing to bet his life on this team's slow scoring. Don't want to make mistakes when dealing with such monumental stakes.

So, in the last 20 years Pakistan have scored 400 runs or more at a run rate of less than 2.5 RPO on just two occasions.

New Zealand v Pakistan at Napier, Dec 11-15, 2009 - Pakistan batted 193.2 overs for 455 runs (2.35 RPO) in the third innings to successfully save the test.

Pakistan v England at Lahore, Nov 15-19, 2000 - England, choosing to bat after winning the toss, scored 480 in the first innings. A Pakistan team containing legendarily dour, defensive batsmen such as Saeed Anwar, Afridi, Inzi, Youhana and Razzaq raced to 401 all out from 163.3 overs (2.45 RPO).


Conclusion - The current Pakistan team has never scored that slowly when amassing big totals so the good doctor's life is now forfeit and in future we should refrain from making bold claims until we've had time to check the facts lest more PPers be forced to commit seppuku.

I was talking about the current team and scoring 400 in 4 sessions.

Try again.

 

[Slog]

I was talking about the current team and scoring 400 in 4 sessions.

Try again.

well his post includes current team

the fact is that the team bats painstakinly slow till 275-300, but the rate picks up significantly after that which is fine by me

 

[Big Mac]

I was talking about the current team and scoring 400 in 4 sessions.

Try again.

Holy crap, it's a ghost!

You were saying the team would need over 2 days to score 450, when they have NEVER scored 400+ runs at that slow a run rate.

Nobody said they would have scored 400 runs in 4 session, that's just a strawman you conjured out of thin air.

But, seeing as you're making up arbitrary targets...why don't we check the facts!

Pakistan v West Indies at Abu Dhabi, Oct 21-25, 2016
- What was the score at lunch on day two? Would you look at that! Pakistan were 401/6 after four sessions...

Sri Lanka v Pakistan at Colombo (SSC), Jun 30-Jul 4, 2012
- The score when rain forced an early lunch on day two? Pakistan were 404/2 with Azhar unbeaten on 121.

So to sum up - You're wrong again. Not only have Pakistan NEVER taken more than two days to score 400 runs, they've scored 400 runs in 4 sessions twice as well as scoring 391 runs in 4 sessions in the D/N test against the Windies.

I hope the afterlife is treating you well, I'll pray for you.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Holy crap, it's a ghost!

You were saying the team would need over 2 days to score 450, when they have NEVER scored 400+ runs at that slow a run rate.

Nobody said they would have scored 400 runs in 4 session, that's just a strawman you conjured out of thin air.

But, seeing as you're making up arbitrary targets...why don't we check the facts!

Pakistan v West Indies at Abu Dhabi, Oct 21-25, 2016
- What was the score at lunch on day two? Would you look at that! Pakistan were 401/6 after four sessions...

Sri Lanka v Pakistan at Colombo (SSC), Jun 30-Jul 4, 2012
- The score when rain forced an early lunch on day two? Pakistan were 404/2 with Azhar unbeaten on 121.

So to sum up - You're wrong again. Not only have Pakistan NEVER taken more than two days to score 400 runs, they've scored 400 runs in 4 sessions twice as well as scoring 391 runs in 4 sessions in the D/N test against the Windies.

I hope the afterlife is treating you well, I'll pray for you.

Good now that you have caught on.

Relax.

How many total tests have this team played ?

Then make a percentage.

Anyways, just relax.

Pakistan team does play slow, it's well known.

I appreciate it at times in UAE, but I don't appreciate that they continue playing slow whether the pitch is flat or not.

 

[Mamoon]

Good now that you have caught on.

Relax.

How many total tests have this team played ?

Then make a percentage.

Anyways, just relax.

Pakistan team does play slow, it's well known.

I appreciate it at times in UAE, but I don't appreciate that they continue playing slow whether the pitch is flat or not.

How can you make a percentage when there's no data point? This team has 'never' take more than two days to score 400.

When we bat long enough, scoring rate isn't much of an issue. We eventually catch up and Sarfraz plays a key role in that.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

How can you make a percentage when there's no data point? This team has 'never' take more than two days to score 400.

When we bat long enough, scoring rate isn't much of an issue. We eventually catch up and Sarfraz plays a key role in that.

Well that reinforces my point.

Top 6 batsmen of the team, barring Asad to an extent are all , typically gritty type players who are not fluent stroke makers.

It takes a Sarfraz or Amir or Sohail Khan to up the tempo.

While all the Australian batsmen or Indian batsmen tend to play at a good pace (leaving out Warner who bats way too fast) which was my point in the 1st thread.

We play a brand of cricket that works in UAE but when the pitch is super flat, we don't have second gear.

If someone disagrees to that, feel free to call me out.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

It is a well known fact we generally bat slow.

I don't see how the owning is going on.

Fine, I admit that there are certain times we play fast, but those are only by lower order batsmen after the upper order has laid the foundation.

You guys are all saying as if Pakistan is the best stroke making team in the world, which is entirely laughable.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Anyhow seeing as people missed the point of the thread and are talking about me being owned, I accept defeat.

The team is brilliant and has the potential to beat Australia in Australia and I will have an egg on my face soon

They are the number 1 team in test cricket, laden with stroke makers and have never played attritional cricket for the sake of it.

Infact, I humbly request the moderators to accept that I am defeated and owned.

Thanks !

 

[Xoib]

Anyhow seeing as people missed the point of the thread and are talking about me being owned, I accept defeat.

The team is brilliant and has the potential to beat Australia in Australia and I will have an egg on my face soon

They are the number 1 team in test cricket, laden with stroke makers and have never played attritional cricket for the sake of it.

Infact, I humbly request the moderators to accept that I am defeated and owned.

Thanks !

This team is neither brilliant nor are they capable of winning in Australia so your face will not be meeting any egg yolks soon however to put your point across you have not used the right test match in this test match Pakistan needed the attrition cricket to get in to a position where the lower order could take advantage of the tiring bowling the only reason we got 440 was because of our careful approach in the first half of the innings.

 

[street cricketer]

I don't know why the batting is being blamed here.

I find the current Pakistani team special. In the sense that the past Pak teams have been much more talented with both bat and the ball, but they always wilted against the best. The past Pak teams were no match to Australia irrespective of where the match was played. This current team may not have the same talent, but one thing it has in abundance is great heart. It has that great fighting quality unlike its predecessors. Sure, the current Australian side isn't the strongest, but you can only play what's in front of you.

And the reason the current Pak team has so much fighting quality is because it plays what it comes to it naturally. It doesn't try extraordinary and overwhelming things, it knows its limitations and plays to its strengths. And its strength is its attritional cricket. That is what made the team rise to the no.1 position and earned the side a draw in England. Sure the side isn't perfect by any means and it has its limitations which can be exploited. But the thing is that the side is very strong in the basics of test cricket and doesn't try to do overzealous things that result in its downfall.

The entire team is built around attritional cricket. The players right from the openers in Sami Aslam, Azhar to Younis, Misbah are all masters in this brand of play. Sarfaraz is probably the only guy who's different from the pack. They won't change the game in a session, they won't punish you suddenly. But they will make you work hard every inch to earn their wicket. They aren't the perfect batsmen, but they never ever throw their wickets cheaply. They keep grinding on at a sedate pace which can be a bit boring, but super effective as far as the game is concerned. There is a special kind of torture treatment where water is made to fall on the head drop by drop on the same exact place. Initially you'll be like what's so bad about this lol. But that will keep building on and on and slowly turn into an excruciating pain which can be more unbearable than any sudden trauma. I have no better example of explaining Pakistan's approach lol.

Azhar batted perfectly fine, in fact, Pakistan would've reached the same target by or just after lunch on day 2 without the rain interruptions. It has just been poor bowling combined with some extraordinary batting by the Aussies. The Aussies are batting at this rate to force a result and wrap the series up before Sydney, otherwise I'm not sure if they would have went at 5 an over. There are some wickets where you have to resign to the fact that the pitch is too flat to pick up 20 wickets and try not to do anything silly to lose the game. Pakistan bowlers bowled atrociously despite the flatness of the pitch but you could argue that the attritional play has actually increased Pakistan's chances of a draw.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

This team is neither brilliant nor are they capable of winning in Australia so your face will not be meeting any egg yolks soon however to put your point across you have not used the right test match in this test match Pakistan needed the attrition cricket to get in to a position where the lower order could take advantage of the tiring bowling the only reason we got 440 was because of our careful approach in the first half of the innings.

They always play this way 80 percent of the time. Now I'll use exact percentages because a certain poster is itching to get me owned, because if I say ALL THE TIME, he will be there to expose my lies again.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I don't know why the batting is being blamed here.

I find the current Pakistani team special. In the sense that the past Pak teams have been much more talented with both bat and the ball, but they always wilted against the best. The past Pak teams were no match to Australia irrespective of where the match was played. This current team may not have the same talent, but one thing it has in abundance is great heart. It has that great fighting quality unlike its predecessors. Sure, the current Australian side isn't the strongest, but you can only play what's in front of you.

And the reason the current Pak team has so much fighting quality is because it plays what it comes to it naturally. It doesn't try extraordinary and overwhelming things, it knows its limitations and plays to its strengths. And its strength is its attritional cricket. That is what made the team rise to the no.1 position and earned the side a draw in England. Sure the side isn't perfect by any means and it has its limitations which can be exploited. But the thing is that the side is very strong in the basics of test cricket and doesn't try to do overzealous things that result in its downfall.

The entire team is built around attritional cricket. The players right from the openers in Sami Aslam, Azhar to Younis, Misbah are all masters in this brand of play. Sarfaraz is probably the only guy who's different from the pack. They won't change the game in a session, they won't punish you suddenly. But they will make you work hard every inch to earn their wicket. They aren't the perfect batsmen, but they never ever throw their wickets cheaply. They keep grinding on at a sedate pace which can be a bit boring, but super effective as far as the game is concerned. There is a special kind of torture treatment where water is made to fall on the head drop by drop on the same exact place. Initially you'll be like what's so bad about this lol. But that will keep building on and on and slowly turn into an excruciating pain which can be more unbearable than any sudden trauma. I have no better example of explaining Pakistan's approach lol.

Azhar batted perfectly fine, in fact, Pakistan would've reached the same target by or just after lunch on day 2 without the rain interruptions. It has just been poor bowling combined with some extraordinary batting by the Aussies. The Aussies are batting at this rate to force a result and wrap the series up before Sydney, otherwise I'm not sure if they would have went at 5 an over. There are some wickets where you have to resign to the fact that the pitch is too flat to pick up 20 wickets and try not to do anything silly to lose the game. Pakistan bowlers bowled atrociously despite the flatness of the pitch but you could argue that the attritional play has actually increased Pakistan's chances of a draw.

I don't find anything wrong with attritional cricket.

And I certainly don't find anything wrong with attacking cricket when the pitch is flat.

 

[Xoib]

I can understand the Doc's frustration the way Warner batted I felt we should have had atleast 550 to feel safe but the thing is Warner is Warner while Azhar is Azhar Azhar would have not got that 200 if he tried to force the pace on the first day same like Warner would never be able to bat 400 balls in foreign conditions.

 

[Pete Rose]

Thread summary: I have a point of view on Pakistan's cricket that is not really based on any data and would like to ignore what's worked for Pakistan in the past because today Warner for a blistering century.
Therefore everything that Pakistan has done over last five years is wrong.

 

[Big Mac]

Fine, I admit that there are certain times we play fast, but those are only by lower order batsmen after the upper order has laid the foundation.

Please tell us how the lower order batsmen were responsible for 404/2?

You guys are all saying as if Pakistan is the best stroke making team in the world, which is entirely laughable.

Who said that? Quote the posts where those claims were made.

It is a well known fact we generally bat slow.

I don't see how the owning is going on.

Ooooooh, do we get to talk about "facts" again? Yay! Let's look at the stats for 400+ scores over the past five years.

Pakistan's average run rate when scoring 400+ is 3.42 RPO. This puts them fourth amongst test nations, ahead of the likes of England (3.40), South Africa (3.35), Sri Lanka (3.32) and the Windies (3.21) when it comes to run rates for big totals.

I'm beginning to think that these aren't so much "facts" as they are "completely baseless assertions".

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Please tell us how the lower order batsmen were responsible for 404/2?



Who said that? Quote the posts where those claims were made.

Ooooooh, do we get to talk about "facts" again? Yay! Let's look at the stats for 400+ scores over the past five years.

Pakistan's average run rate when scoring 400+ is 3.42 RPO. This puts them fourth amongst test nations, ahead of the likes of England (3.40), South Africa (3.35), Sri Lanka (3.32) and the Windies (3.21) when it comes to run rates for big totals.

I'm beginning to think that these aren't so much "facts" as they are "completely baseless assertions".

Okay so maybe we bat fast, but I seem to have missed it in New Zealand series and also in the Australia series.

Also I missed it in the England series, but maybe you are right.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I can understand the Doc's frustration the way Warner batted I felt we should have had atleast 550 to feel safe but the thing is Warner is Warner while Azhar is Azhar Azhar would have not got that 200 if he tried to force the pace on the first day same like Warner would never be able to bat 400 balls in foreign conditions.

This frustration is not faced on just Warner's batting.

Let's see how Australia bat tomorrow to get a better gauge.

If they bat at 1.5 per over, I will accept my thread a failure.

If they bat at anything above 4, you can't say it's just Warner.

 

[Big Mac]

They always play this way 80 percent of the time. Now I'll use exact percentages because a certain poster is itching to get me owned, because if I say ALL THE TIME, he will be there to expose my lies again.

Seeing as you're using exact percentages, why don't you show us how you arrived at that 80% figure?

But I know you can't take any criticism of your team and darling Misbah, so I'll just stop wasting my time.

The point was really not whether they scored 450 or 400 and I should have worded myself carefully because I knew you were itching to expose my lies.

I find the best way to not be exposed as a liar is to, you know...not tell lies in the first place?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Thread summary: I have a point of view on Pakistan's cricket that is not really based on any data and would like to ignore what's worked for Pakistan in the past because today Warner for a blistering century.
Therefore everything that Pakistan has done over last five years is wrong.

The OP specifically said, on pitches where it's flat.

IT DIDN'T SAY PAST 5 YEARS APPROACH WAS WRONG.

I have to point it out in bold, because I never said the approach is wrong.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Seeing as you're using exact percentages, why don't you show us how you arrived at that 80% figure?



I find the best way to not be exposed as a liar is to, you know...not tell lies in the first place?

Everyone knows this team.

You know and I know.

If you think I am a liar and you are truthful then let it be.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Seeing as you're using exact percentages, why don't you show us how you arrived at that 80% figure?



I find the best way to not be exposed as a liar is to, you know...not tell lies in the first place?

Btw I give up.

The word "exact" doesn't really mean "exact".

It was meant to be sarcasm.

But you loved it, and picked upon it .. as one of my lies.

I am tired of arguing with you.

You know Misbah is better than every single person and this team is best ever Pakistan team, so let's agree to disagree.

 

[Xoib]

This frustration is not faced on just Warner's batting.

Let's see how Australia bat tomorrow to get a better gauge.

If they bat at 1.5 per over, I will accept my thread a failure.

If they bat at anything above 4, you can't say it's just Warner.

Australia always bat fast on their roads when Warner fires then their run rate is super quick but that approach will not work for Pakistan due to the personal apart from Asad (inconsistent) Babar (raw) Sarfraz (Uae bully) rest are plodders. Their approach in this series has been fine going mostly around 3 RPO criticize them when they bat like they did in NZL barely crossing 1.5 as I alluded this is not the right test match to target their approach.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Australia always bat fast on their roads when Warner fires then their run rate is super quick but that approach will not work for Pakistan due to the personal apart from Asad (inconsistent) Babar (raw) Sarfraz (Uae bully) rest are plodders. Their approach in this series has been fine going mostly around 3 RPO criticize them when they bat like they did in NZL barely crossing 1.5 as I alluded this is not the right test match to target their approach.

Don't say that.

Or people will try to expose you as liar.

 

[Big Mac]

Everyone knows this team.

You know and I know.

If you think I am a liar and you are truthful then let it be.

You specifically gave an exact 80% figure and said it was to avoid being "exposed" again, if you're not going to show us your working then not only do you miss out on full marks in the exam but everyone might think you've just pulled another number out of you-know-where.

Work with me here, I'm trying to help restore your lost credibility.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You specifically gave an exact 80% figure and said it was to avoid being "exposed" again, if you're not going to show us your working then not only do you miss out on full marks in the exam but everyone might think you've just pulled another number out of you-know-where.

Work with me here, I'm trying to help restore your lost credibility.

Already answered that.

A sarcasm that didn't work for you.

Why the hell would I start pulling out figures, knowing that you are trying to prove me wrong on behalf of beloved team Pakistan?

You really think I am dumb enough to pull another figure after you keep trying to prove everything with figures ?

Really ?

You honestly expect that?

 

[Xoib]

Pakistan batting approach has been fine this series they have targetted Lyon which has ensured Aus overbowl Starc and Hazelwood and trust me if (big if) we can get to Sydney unhurt this will be a telling factor in the series result.

 

[Big Mac]

Btw I give up.

The word "exact" doesn't really mean "exact".

It was meant to be sarcasm.

But you loved it, and picked upon it .. as one of my lies.

I am tired of arguing with you.

You know Misbah is better than every single person and this team is best ever Pakistan team, so let's agree to disagree.

So not only are your numbers completely made up but the words you're using may or may not mean what they actually mean?

So when you say that Pakistan doesn't bat fast, does "fast" mean "fast"?

Wait, I understand now! When you wrote that lengthy OP about Pakistan, you weren't actually talking about Pakistan because "Pakistan" actually meant "Sri Lanka" right?

Already answered that.

A sarcasm that didn't work for you.

Why the hell would I start pulling out figures, knowing that you are trying to prove me wrong on behalf of beloved team Pakistan?

You really think I am dumb enough to pull another figure after you keep trying to prove everything with figures ?

Really ?

You honestly expect that?

First of all, that's one of those questions you shouldn't ask because the answer may not always be the one you want.

Secondly, YOU started bringing out numbers when you claimed

If we hadn't lost 80 overs, I can bet my life we wouldn't have slogged at the end like today.

We would have scored 450 but in 2 days or 2 days and one session.

Don't try and back out out of it now that almost everything you've said has been categorically proven to be false.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You specifically gave an exact 80% figure and said it was to avoid being "exposed" again, if you're not going to show us your working then not only do you miss out on full marks in the exam but everyone might think you've just pulled another number out of you-know-where.

Work with me here, I'm trying to help restore your lost credibility.

Big Mac I respect you as a poster but "credibility" doesn't matter on an anonymous internet forum.

If you think I really care I got "so called exposed" on an internet forum, then obviously you care about this forum more than I thought you did.

You seem to have taken this conversation to heart.

Let's make amends.

Pakistan team and Misbah are have done really well over the past year and there is nothing wrong with how they play. I picked a wrong time to question you and perhaps my "internet credibility" is lost but "what can I say now".

What's done is done.

Let's move on.

 

[street cricketer]

I don't find anything wrong with attritional cricket.

And I certainly don't find anything wrong with attacking cricket when the pitch is flat.

I don't think the batsmen are suited for attacking cricket barring Shafiq and Sarfaraz. So it's understandable that they're doing what comes best to them. Also personally I think Pakistan will make a lesser total if they play attacking cricket than what they would do by playing attritional cricket as they would take more risks than normal and make them more vulnerable.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

So not only are your numbers completely made up but the words you're using may or may not mean what they actually mean?

So when you say that Pakistan doesn't bat fast, does "fast" mean "fast"?

Wait, I understand now! When you wrote that lengthy OP about Pakistan, you weren't actually talking about Pakistan because "Pakistan" actually meant "Sri Lanka" right?




First of all, that's one of those questions you shouldn't ask because the answer may not always be the one you want.

Secondly, YOU started bringing out numbers when you claimed



Don't try and back out out of it now that almost everything you've said has been categorically proven to be false.

Let me answer.

The original post was nowhere near complaining and scathing as you think it was. It was an honest assessment of the team.

I don't know if you know the meaning of the word "sarcasm" but I will not insult you by assuming that you don't know it.

I am assuming you understand sarcasm but you are purposely playing dumb.

The above discussion was about Pakistan but it was more about their style and not about 450 or 400. Read it again if you doubt me.

If you pick every word of mine and don't understand sarcasm then it's not my fault and you could be forgiven for assuming that when I say Pakistan I mean Sri Lanka.


For your second assumption I hardly care if you think I am dumb or dumbest. If you have the balls to answer just answer yes I do think that you are dumb.

No need to hide behind a laptop and try to play wise guy.


Lastly I am not backing out. I just think you are not worth it, because you come across as an arrogant fool who thinks sitting on the internet and typing a few lines can make someone lose his credibility.

That's laughable and you know it and I do as well.

 

[JaDed]

I think perspective is important,Pakistan are actually playing very good Test crickete esp batting here considering historically Pak has alwats been a bowling team this is very good batting.

Also not all teams are suitable for playin that kind of cricket and its a myth that only such cricket ia good irrespective of the surface,just because Pakistan has always played attacking cricket doesn't mean it will always suit them for all you know if Pakista had batted in such ways in last 2 decades they would had better results than what they have had.

Have seen Aus play like this in India and lose 4-0 ,it only suits in certain conditions ,would backfire in swinging conditions as well.

 

[Big Mac]

Big Mac I respect you as a poster but "credibility" doesn't matter on an anonymous internet forum.

If you think I really care I got "so called exposed" on an internet forum, then obviously you care about this forum more than I thought you did.

You seem to have taken this conversation to heart.

Let's make amends.

Pakistan team and Misbah are have done really well over the past year and there is nothing wrong with how they play. I picked a wrong time to question you and perhaps my "internet credibility" is lost but "what can I say now".

What's done is done.

Let's move on.

I don't care if anyone criticises Pakistan, or Misbah, or my own pie chucking leg-breaks and flat-footed fishing outside off-stump, as long as it's accurate criticism.

If anyone is going to claim something as the truth, when it's VERIFIABLY FALSE, then I will call them out on it. I might agree with everything else you've ever said in every other thread in the history of this forum but when a person post lies and then doubles down on it in an idiotic fashion, they should be prepared to be called a liar and an idiot in that thread.

To do anything else just encourages people to indulge in terrible quality cricketing discussions.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I don't care if anyone criticises Pakistan, or Misbah, or my own pie chucking leg-breaks and flat-footed fishing outside off-stump, as long as it's accurate criticism.

If anyone is going to claim something as the truth, when it's VERIFIABLY FALSE, then I will call them out on it. I might agree with everything else you've ever said in every other thread in the history of this forum but when a person post lies and then doubles down on it in an idiotic fashion, they should be prepared to be called a liar and an idiot in that thread.

To do anything else just encourages people to indulge in terrible quality cricketing discussions.

That's a matter of your choice.

What is idiotic to you, may not seem idiotic to others and what's a lie to you may not seem a lie to the poster who said it.

You are free to call me out on it.

But credibility part is just stupid.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Funnily enough I won't ask the moderators to close this thread, because it looks so weird to me that people actually try to catch people with lies on an internet forum to feel good about themselves.

I've heard previously people who got owned on threads wanted the threads binned, but I stand by what I said.

Pakistan play attritional cricket which won't work everywhere and on flat tracks when they play slow, they will most likely bat themselves out of a good chance of winning.

If people think that is a stupid or idiotic comment or any of the conversation that stems from it, so be it.

I stand by what I said.

 

[Square Drive]

Correct me if I'm wrong, as I have been catching this game while travelling, but we managed to end up with an oveall RR of 3.5+ (or around the 3.5 mark), so no, we're doing just fine.

 

[shaz619]

Funnily enough I won't ask the moderators to close this thread, because it looks so weird to me that people actually try to catch people with lies on an internet forum to feel good about themselves.

I've heard previously people who got owned on threads wanted the threads binned, but I stand by what I said.

Pakistan play attritional cricket which won't work everywhere and on flat tracks when they play slow, they will most likely bat themselves out of a good chance of winning.

If people think that is a stupid or idiotic comment or any of the conversation that stems from it, so be it.

I stand by what I said.

It's not about exposing lies or anything like that all it was you didn't check the stats before posting but yeah we get it you think we need to be more aggressive but we score quick enough; in places where conditions are tough and away from home it's always going to be a challenge. We don't have a dave warner or a sehwag anyhow these batsman would also find it challenging on surfaces which are not flat to bat the way they do.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

It's not about exposing lies or anything like that all it was you didn't check the stats before posting but yeah we get it you think we need to be more aggressive but we score quick enough; in places where conditions are tough and away from home it's always going to be a challenge. We don't have a dave warner or a sehwag anyhow these batsman would also find it challenging on surfaces which are not flat to bat the way they do.

Yes, I admit I don't check stats before posting because I use a general reference gauge.

That was an error on my part.

But I nowhere did I expect people would try to convince others that I am a liar because what I said something is false.

I agree with your general perception that we also need players who can bat this way and I am hopeful we will get them soon.

 

[shaz619]

Yes, I admit I don't check stats before posting because I use a general reference gauge.

That was an error on my part.

But I nowhere did I expect people would try to convince others that I am a liar because what I said something is false.

I agree with your general perception that we also need players who can bat this way and I am hopeful we will get them soon.

Don't think you are a lier no one really meant to call you that either and many of us do use that general reference gauge when we post so it's cool. We have sharjeel khan and umar akmal who are of a similar type but one may have technical issues and the other with consistency, moving forward I reckon Mickey will be giving them an oppourtunity and perhaps under his guide they"ll perform well; but with such players with flare having failed in the past I value the batsman we have at the moment are a lot more consistent despite their limitations.

 

[Zeshan547]

What's even the point of this thread, i have been one of the biggest critic of pak general scoring rate in tests, but here can't find the fault with batting rate in this innings specially considering where we ended up, 443 at 3.5 is more than respectable modern day test batting effort. The mess we are in now is all down to pathetic bowling from wahab and yasir and the genius captaincy of king misbah, because with this rubbish bowling what would be different even if we had made 625 in 125 overs at run rate of 5? It would have only made a draw for pak more easier that's all. With such pathetic bowling display even a 750 at 6 per over won't win us the match unless aussies self destruct? Of all the things this attritional batting should have been the worst excuse you could think of or blame. [MENTION=43242]Dr_Bassim[/MENTION] i expected a lot better from sane posters like you, but some time we all make blunders.

 

[Boi]

I'm sure if the sun had stayed out throughout our innings our RR wouldve been even higher. The constant stop start nature of our innings along with heavy cloud cover and presence of moisture meant that there was always something there for their pacers who could come back refreshed after the breaks whilst our batsmen had to restart. Even then we ended up with a run rate of 3.5 but no, apparantly our batting is to blame for the bowlers going at 5+ rpo.

 

[JibranAnsari]

thats how we play and frankly our batsmen arent good enough to play any better than this , this all comes down to ability and on ability we are doing ok

 

[KB]

I am afraid the good Doctor has got the diagnosis wrong. Sure, you can argue that Pakistan often to their credit fight through tough periods but lack dominant top order batting which can then fully capitalise on it. But it is not the reason Pakistan is in a now insecure position in the current match. It should be obvious that it is down to the bowling misfiring compounded by Misbah not having the best day as captain. To focus on the batting after the way the day unfolded is somewhat perverse.

And whatever you might say about the attritional nature of the batting, I have not seen Pakistan bat better in Australia than they have in the last two innings.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Batting has punched above its weight. To expect a modern scoring rate from a Pakistani side with Misbah ul Haq in it let alone him captaining it is like trying to catch fish in the sky.

The bowling and idiotic on field captaincy is what has screwed us.

 

[Buffet]

The pitch has been good to bat on through out but surely you can appreciate the difference between batting under heavy cloud cover with moisture in the air vs under the sun. Even the Aussie commentators were saying that the conditions were ideal for batting after the rain went away today.

Pakistan's game plan with the bat is well known, and I don't think a run-rate of 3.5 is particularly slow. However, when two of your main bowlers go at 6 an over then you have a major problem.

Pitch was never hard enough to bat as slow as Pakistan batted for the first 300 runs. 3.5 runs per over comes due to slogging after that and probably the one of the fastest runs by Pakistani tails.

Anyway, Pakistan can bat the way they know to bat and I think batting is not an issue in this match. Bowlers have bowled poorly so far.

 

[AlphaFighter]

De-Misbah fication of the team will not happen over night, you have to give it time. But the bowlers especially Amir need to be held accountable.

 

[Chrish]

Pakistan shouldn't try to play like Australia cause they aren't Australia

 

[Buffet]

Pakistan shouldn't try to play like Australia cause they aren't Australia

Agree with this. You have to play the way you can play. Aus can't play attritional cricket at all and lose it big time whenever other team does it on slow surface.

 

[Zohaib Shah]

People keep blaming Yasir Shah's bowling and yet they forget Misbah's captaincy has been scratchy. Misbah is being exposed as a captain in this series. Part of the reason we never got much wickets is cause of his weird field placement.

I blame Misbah and Wahab highly for this. To some extent Yasir Shah for bowling full tosses time to time.

 

[AlphaFighter]

People keep blaming Yasir Shah's bowling and yet they forget Misbah's captaincy has been scratchy. Misbah is being exposed as a captain in this series. Part of the reason we never got much wickets is cause of his weird field placement.

I blame Misbah and Wahab highly for this. To some extent Yasir Shah for bowling full tosses time to time.

Unfair to blame Wahab, he was the only bowler striving to take wickets and the end result is striving for extra pace, over exerting, bending his back, bouncers and over stepping the mark, all this on a flat deck while the other bowlers were unpenetrative.

 

[rollingstoned]

I don't care if anyone criticises Pakistan, or Misbah, or my own pie chucking leg-breaks and flat-footed fishing outside off-stump, as long as it's accurate criticism.

If anyone is going to claim something as the truth, when it's VERIFIABLY FALSE, then I will call them out on it. I might agree with everything else you've ever said in every other thread in the history of this forum but when a person post lies and then doubles down on it in an idiotic fashion, they should be prepared to be called a liar and an idiot in that thread.

To do anything else just encourages people to indulge in terrible quality cricketing discussions.

But it's not really a lie is it? You're just being pedantic here. There have been occasions recently when it was not an unreasonable thing to say that Pakistan might have shown a little more intent when batting, you don't need to post walls of statistics to drive that point home.

 

[Zohaib Shah]

Unfair to blame Wahab, he was the only bowler striving to take wickets and the end result is striving for extra pace, over exerting, bending his back, bouncers and over stepping the mark, all this on a flat deck while the other bowlers were unpenetrative.

I am sorry but three no bowls in a over is not making the situation any better. Its making it worse.

I do agree however that Wahab manages to pick up wickets when it matters more than Amir. I have not been that impressed by Amir since his return. He looks nothing special as other bowlers we already have.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

This is why I would play Sharjeel over Aslam.

 

[MenInG]

The same style in progress in West Indies.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Bragging about a win against an inexperienced side with a two man attack.

 

[MRSN]

The same style in progress in West Indies.

Where was this play in Aus? Or when we lost against NZ in one session?

 

[MRSN]

Bragging about a win against an inexperienced side with a two man attack.

Exactly. Moyo called this team c grade. Shehzad should have been out twice if their fielding and bowling display was not this pathetic.

 

[shaz619]

 

[Markhor]

Azhar's SR is fine for a Test match opener, its Shehzad who's stinking the joint out.

 

[Abdullah719]

 

[Big Mac]

85 run opening partnership and people are moaning

Go back to watching CBeebies

 

[Fahdi]

Azhar's batting well. SR is around 50 which is good enough for most situations in Tests.


Attritional cricket is one thing but you have to adhere to the basics at least. Ahmed Shehzad has missed out on some half vollies which only builds pressure.

The good thing is a wicket hasn't fallen though by no lack of effort on behalf of Shehzad. He even had a catch dropped.

 

[Hamza_]

It's a master plan by Shizzy.

He is doing Tuk Tuk so that the Windies can't predict when he will commit an error.