The Qibla Dilemma - Flat Earth and the Qur'an

[Shutdown Corner]

I don't think you're reading my posts properly because I have already countered this point earlier. Here it is again:

A lot of people in the rebuttals above have mentioned that the verses talking about the earth being spread out or spread out like a carpet etc. refer to the earth from our perspective. This is not true either. Several of these verses are describing what Allah supposedly did when creating the entire Earth, not that the Earth seems flat to a human from a small local perspective on its spherical surface. Moreover, some of these verses also mention Allah placing mountains, or the sky as a ceiling or canopy, and therefore such verses must apply to the Earth's shape as a whole.

Moreover, this argument ignores the choice of word in the following verse (which is basically also counters your point of none of the verses containing the word "flat")

وَإِلَى ٱلْأَرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ

And at the Earth, how it is spread out? (88:20)

سَطَّحَ = spread out or forth, expand

The word was used to describe making the flat top or roof of a house or chamber and making a top surface flat.

Words from the same root mean the flat top surface or roof of a house or chamber, a flat plane in geometry, a level place upon which dates can be spread, a rolling pin (which expands the dough), plane or flat.

If you'd rather do your own research I'd recommend having a look at the word سَطَّحَ or 'Shataha' in Lane's Lexicon here: http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexico...4/00000081.pdf - See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...th-and-the-Qur-an/page2&p=9263515#post9263515

I saw that part of the post.

The primary problem with your approach to the Quran is that "spread out" and "expansive" don't preclude a flat or round planet. I don't see how that inference is made. Its like taking the description of someone as "intelligent" and then infering that intelligence precludes sensitivity over callousness. Like how is that conclusion reached?

I would perhaps understand if the opposite of "spread out" was "circular" or "round", but that isn't the case in the English language. Same with "expansive".

The opposite of spread out is "condensed". The opposite of expansive could be "inexpansive" or "concentrated".

Not sure this can be explained any simpler or clearer than that.

 

[Black Zero]

Mine is different case. It is with close mind that pushed me away from Islam. Whereas my open-minded for Islam took me back. Because i started to see Islam from my perspective alone. And i believe my version alone which strengthened my faith furthermore.

so it's fair to assume that you were born to non-muslim parents and after reading Quran with open mind you embraced Islam??

If not, then sadly you are just ta victim of conformity bias.

 

[uberkoen]

I saw that part of the post.

The primary problem with your approach to the Quran is that "spread out" and "expansive" don't preclude a flat or round planet. I don't see how that inference is made. Its like taking the description of someone as "intelligent" and then infering that intelligence precludes sensitivity over callousness. Like how is that conclusion reached?

I would perhaps understand if the opposite of "spread out" was "circular" or "round", but that isn't the case in the English language. Same with "expansive".

The opposite of spread out is "condensed". The opposite of expansive could be "inexpansive" or "concentrated".

Not sure this can be explained any simpler or clearer than that.

Agreed. However, again, you missed out on another thing that I mentioned. Take into context those verses along with verse 88:20 in my post above. In fact, forget those other verses and look at 88:20 and read what I had mentioned about this particular verse:

سَطَّحَ = spread out or forth, expand The word was used to describe making the flat top or roof of a house or chamber and making a top surface flat. Words from the same root mean the flat top surface or roof of a house or chamber, a flat plane in geometry, a level place upon which dates can be spread, a rolling pin (which expands the dough), plane or flat. If you'd rather do your own research I'd recommend having a look at the word سَطَّحَ or 'Shataha' in Lane's Lexicon here: http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexico...4/00000081.pdf

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

I did back it up with evidence of you'd care to read. I posted verses from the Qur'an itself which confirm abrogation. Here it is again:

“Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is able to do all things? Know you not that it is Allah to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Allah you have neither any Walee (protector or guardian) nor any helper.” (2:106-107)

And when We substitute a Verse (in) place (of) a Verse, and Allah - (is) most knowing of what He sends down they say, "Only you (are) an inventor." Nay, most of them (do) not know. (16:101)

The only mainstream muslim sect that rejects abrogation in the Qur'an are the Ahmadiyah. Majority of the Muslim scholars agree about the principle of abrogation in the Qur'an.

Fact of the matter is the Propher changed his rules according to the circumstances. Within the hadith, there are a number of examples. Muhammad, for example, revealed verse 2:187 regulating sex during Ramadan after ‘Umar Ibn al-Khattab questioned him. Likewise, Muhammad abrogated another verse encouraging all believers to fight militarily for God (4:95) after he was challenged by a blind man who could not.

For context, here is a table of Abrogated verses

View attachment 74367

[MENTION=139075]Hadi Rizvi[/MENTION]


What is your take on abbrogations in Quran ?

Imam Mehdi As allegedly having copy of one of the actual Quran which Hazrat Usman RA failed to get destroyed. (Naoozbillah)

 

[USHK]

so it's fair to assume that you were born to non-muslim parents and after reading Quran with open mind you embraced Islam??

If not, then sadly you are just ta victim of conformity bias.

Being born to Muslim parents, i still became atheist on my wills. And my research led me back to Islam. Research is the key regardless of the background.