The Real Face Of Modi

[anikrc1]

In March of 2014, while campaigning for the Lok Sabha elections in Yavatmal district in Maharashtra, Narendra Modi kicked of his electoral speech with a declaration that if he was elected prime minister, then the BJP govt at the centre would calculate a profit of 50% over the total agricultural expenditure and the minimum support price would be determined accordingly.
On 6th June, 2017, farmers from Mandasore district in Madhya Pradesh started agitating on this demand. Along with this they also asked for improved irrigation infrastructure and write-off for agricultural loans. Logical demands, all of them.
The police fired on the agitating farmers. 6 of the farmers died. And then the government shut down internet services across Madhya Pradesh. No, not in Kashmir, where internet services are shut down regularly by the government. This time in Madhya Pradesh, bang in the centre of the country. Why was the internet shut down? So that people could not spread the news of the real face of the BJP government? So that they can hide the fact that this government is packed with dirty brokers, liars and murderers?

 

[anikrc1]

just came across this post in facebook. modi and his anti-poor policies along with his boot-licking of the amani's of the world is is clear for all to see. his pro-hindutva tactics are nothing but a ploy to hide the ral issues. the frustating thing is that, the left-leaning parties have walked right in his trap. whether people can at all have food or not, should be a much bigger issue than whether can they have beef or not

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Narendra Modi thread below....


http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?225747-Narendra-Modi-Mega-Discussion-Thread/page22

 

[CricketCartoons]

On 6th June, 2017, farmers from Mandasore district in Madhya Pradesh started agitating on this demand. Along with this they also asked for improved irrigation infrastructure and write-off for agricultural loans. Logical demands, all of them.

Yes, it is logical to take loan and then demand it to be waived off.

 

[anikrc1]

Yes, it is logical to take loan and then demand it to be waived off.

forget for the moment the amount of loan indian banks have waived of for the big corporates.given the situation in agricultural situations in most of maharashtra,it's a question of survival for them.and logic takes a backseat before survival. and to ensure the survival of it's poor is one of the duties of the government. but rather than that, modi decided to gift them death. but of course "logic" comes first for the mnc-working neo-liberal class of the indians

 

[CricketCartoons]

forget for the moment the amount of loan indian banks have waived of for the big corporates.given the situation in agricultural situations in most of maharashtra,it's a question of survival for them.and logic takes a backseat before survival. and to ensure the survival of it's poor is one of the duties of the government. but rather than that, modi decided to gift them death. but of course "logic" comes first for the mnc-working neo-liberal class of the indians

yes whatabout blah blah... Your post claimed that it was logical, so please don't be offended when I point that out.

Anyone who resorts to violent protests should be dealt forcefully. But expect the coward bjp govt to bow down to these goons and criminals masquerading as farmers and offer them freebies.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Bjp has already waivered lots of loan of Agriculture of many state for example UP, my relative is a farmer and his loan has been already waivered off because of this situation RBI governor has clearly warned him not to waiver any more loan . Now if bjp don't listen to RBI governor then fake liberals like you say that BJP is undermining governor power and if they listen to him then they are capitalist.

 

[anikrc1]

yes whatabout blah blah... Your post claimed that it was logical, so please don't be offended when I point that out.

Anyone who resorts to violent protests should be dealt forcefully. But expect the coward bjp govt to bow down to these goons and criminals masquerading as farmers and offer them freebies.

yeah,right. i suppose the farmers committing suicide were also goons in disguise.and facing the question of survival the demand of waiver loans is as logical as it gets

 

[CricketCartoons]

yeah,right. i suppose the farmers committing suicide were also goons in disguise.and facing the question of survival the demand of waiver loans is as logical as it gets

you must be a farmer too because you are good at creating strawman.

 

[anikrc1]

you must be a farmer too because you are good at creating strawman.

i don't know why my profession matters to you.and of course i know for the mnc-working right wing population of india the question of survival of its farmers is more often than not is a "strawman".

 

[CricketCartoons]

i don't know why my profession matters to you.and of course i know for the mnc-working right wing population of india the question of survival of its farmers is more often than not is a "strawman".

What are you doing yourself for the farmers? Do you buy directly from them, or through the middlemen? Have you ever visited the family of a farmer who committed suicide?

 

[ToeCrusher2]

i don't know why my profession matters to you.and of course i know for the mnc-working right wing population of india the question of survival of its farmers is more often than not is a "strawman".

CC is a left wing maoist

 

[anikrc1]

What are you doing yourself for the farmers? Do you buy directly from them, or through the middlemen? Have you ever visited the family of a farmer who committed suicide?

i am a masters student living on a stipend of 5000 inr per month in a hostel in bangalore.i have to depend on mess-food .so your questions are misdirected

 

[TM Riddle]

India's most Public sector banks are already in loss due to huge NPAs.Upar se Aur loan waiver

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Is farming sustainable in India if you constantly have to obtain and then fight for them to be written off?

 

[TM Riddle]

yeah,right. i suppose the farmers committing suicide were also goons in disguise.and facing the question of survival the demand of waiver loans is as logical as it gets

No it isn't. Anyone with slightest knowledge of economy would tell you they are extremely harmful in the long run.

 

[LastManstanding]

No it isn't. Anyone with slightest knowledge of economy would tell you they are extremely harmful in the long run.

Over 12000 farmers commit suicide in India every year. What alternative do you suggest?

 

[TM Riddle]

Over 12000 farmers commit suicide in India every year. What alternative do you suggest?

Def not the loan waivers.It sets the bad precedent and PSBs have to bear the expense which is bad for economy.
Some steps I would suggest
1. Better crop insurance scheme - PM fasal bima yojana is a good step in that direction.
2.Institutional financing to curb the menace of moneylanders.
3. Encouraging animal husbandry practices alongside farming.
4. Effective water management so as to reduce the dependency on monsoon
5. Better MSPs
6. Deploying of extension agents who can educate farmers about new technologies and govt schemes.
7. Plug the leakages in the govt schemes so as to avail benefits for the poorest of poor farmers.

 

[TM Riddle]

I guess OP hasn't heard of PM krishi sinchai yojana.

 

[SandyB]

Bjp has already waivered lots of loan of Agriculture of many state for example UP, my relative is a farmer and his loan has been already waivered off because of this situation RBI governor has clearly warned him not to waiver any more loan . Now if bjp don't listen to RBI governor then fake liberals like you say that BJP is undermining governor power and if they listen to him then they are capitalist.

Didn't that just open a pandoras box ?

I mean if a poor and the most populated state can give Waivers on leans, without any (apparent) difficulty, won't all the other big agricultural states start demanding it ? That seems to have happened here ..

 

[CricketCartoons]

i am a masters student living on a stipend of 5000 inr per month in a hostel in bangalore.i have to depend on mess-food .so your questions are misdirected

Ok, so you are living for free on tax payers money? No wonder who want freebies. Try for once to visit the villages and talk to the farmers instead of getting your knowledge through facebook ( not a good use of us taxpayers money).

 

[LastManstanding]

Def not the loan waivers.It sets the bad precedent and PSBs have to bear the expense which is bad for economy.
Some steps I would suggest
1. Better crop insurance scheme - PM fasal bima yojana is a good step in that direction.
2.Institutional financing to curb the menace of moneylanders.
3. Encouraging animal husbandry practices alongside farming.
4. Effective water management so as to reduce the dependency on monsoon
5. Better MSPs
6. Deploying of extension agents who can educate farmers about new technologies and govt schemes.
7. Plug the leakages in the govt schemes so as to avail benefits for the poorest of poor farmers.

In 80% farmer-suicides due to debt, loans from banks, not moneylenders

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...bt-loans-from-banks-not-moneylenders-4462930/

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes, it is logical to take loan and then demand it to be waived off.

If its the poor its called a loan write off, if you are rich you setup a limited company and declare bankruptcy. Or failing that use your political connections to avoid paying.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Didn't that just open a pandoras box ?

I mean if a poor and the most populated state can give Waivers on leans, without any (apparent) difficulty, won't all the other big agricultural states start demanding it ? That seems to have happened here ..

There is a difficulty and that's why governor has written to pm not waiver any more loan. Public sector banks are already in lot of losses. But believe it bjp will do it again to get some more votes.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

If its the poor its called a loan write off, if you are rich you setup a limited company and declare bankruptcy. Or failing that use your political connections to avoid paying.

Can you name some? Subhrat Roy Sahara was jail for not paying investors and Mallya has to run away from India to UK to save himself.
Don't forget government has already waivered lot of agricultural loan and because of this banks and economy are already bearing losses, to waiver every loan is not practically possible.
Government has already done free insurances to poor and farmers which is also causing economic losses.

 

[Bewal Express]

Can you name some? Subhrat Roy Sahara was jail for not paying investors and Mallya has to run away from India to UK to save himself.
Don't forget government has already waivered lot of agricultural loan and because of this banks and economy are already bearing losses, to waiver every loan is not practically possible.
Government has already done free insurances to poor and farmers which is also causing economic losses.

Mine was general point, i dont follow Ind Politics closely enough to know details but as Ind is one of the most corrupt places in the world, i am sure just like us, you have your share of a corrupt nexus between banks and politicians.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] fair point brother, but you have to think about the population of India which is 1.24 billion and more than 50% depends on farming , can India seriously waiver every agricultural loan with out completely breaking down its economy?

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Over 12000 farmers commit suicide in India every year. What alternative do you suggest?

Friend you are talking like AAP. Putting the question which has literally very difficult solution and running away. You should realise that more than 50% depends on farming and if they start wavering every loan it will completely cripple our economy. India has huge population not small like any Scandinavian countries.

 

[big_gamer007]

Election rallies a lot of things are said and a lot of promises are made by all political parties.. Once the party comes in power they forget everything and work the way they had planned or don't work at all in some cases..

I would blame the Indian public for being gullible to fall in traps of the politicians and their fake promises..

 

[big_gamer007]

Ok, so you are living for free on tax payers money? No wonder who want freebies. Try for once to visit the villages and talk to the farmers instead of getting your knowledge through facebook ( not a good use of us taxpayers money).

He is a future taxpayer and the future of this country.. He has every right to raise his point as much as you have.. But a joker like you wouldn't know that you are only good for making jokes and funny comments..

 

[LastManstanding]

Friend you are talking like AAP. Putting the question which has literally very difficult solution and running away. You should realise that more than 50% depends on farming and if they start wavering every loan it will completely cripple our economy. India has huge population not small like any Scandinavian countries.

I would rather money of the tax payers be used for these farmers instead of being looted by corrupt businessman like Mallya. 12k farmers committing suicide is a very high number and till the time government can find a way to help these poor farmers I don't mind their loans being waved off.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

I would rather money of the tax payers be used for these farmers instead of being looted by corrupt businessman like Mallya. 12k farmers committing suicide is a very high number and till the time government can find a way to help these poor farmers I don't mind their loans being waved off.

So your problem is that number is too high , you are okay with current policy if the death number was 100 or less than 1000.
Nobody will going to mind if all the loan are waviered but the question is can the country survive?
There are suicides because of home loan too, so their loan should also be waivered or you think death due to home loan is fair play and this is why I said my friend you put up question like aap and run away from solution.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I would rather money of the tax payers be used for these farmers instead of being looted by corrupt businessman like Mallya. 12k farmers committing suicide is a very high number and till the time government can find a way to help these poor farmers I don't mind their loans being waved off.

Shows the disconnect our well intentioned youth have with ground realities. Your heart is in the right place, your mind is not. Let us agree that loans are waived off, now what? Will the fundamental problems that cause the farmer suffer losses go away? The cycle will repeat. The farmer will have to take loans again and suffer the same problems again. Please don't be lazy and think/read about the real issues of farmers.

 

[LastManstanding]

So your problem is that number is too high , you are okay with current policy if the death number was 100 or less than 1000.
Nobody will going to mind if all the loan are waviered but the question is can the country survive?
There are suicides because of home loan too, so their loan should also be waivered or you think death due to home loan is fair play and this is why I said my friend you put up question like aap and run away from solution.

House is an asset, you can live on rented accommodation as well, here the question is of the survival of these poor farmers. What I meant with the 12k figure was that if such a large no of farmers are committing suicide after 70 years, then clearly it isn't their fault but somewhere system has failed them.

If you were here during demonitization days, you would remember me criticising modi for the death of 70 people, so clearly I am not ok with people dying no matter how miniscule the number is.

I don't know about economics and so I can't tell what impact it will have on our economy. All the parties in these last 70 years have waived off the loans so either they were doing vote bank politics or they genuinely felt the hit on economy was worth the lives of those poor farmers.

 

[LastManstanding]

Shows the disconnect our well intentioned youth have with ground realities. Your heart is in the right place, your mind is not. Let us agree that loans are waived off, now what? Will the fundamental problems that cause the farmer suffer losses go away? The cycle will repeat. The farmer will have to take loans again and suffer the same problems again. Please don't be lazy and think/read about the real issues of farmers.

No I don't claim to have connect with the ground realities of the poor people, I know only whats written in newspapers. That's why I mentioned till government can find a way to devise a system to help these farmers, it should write off their loans just like it has been done many times in the last 70 years.

 

[CricketCartoons]

No I don't claim to have connect with the ground realities of the poor people, I know only whats written in newspapers. That's why I mentioned till government can find a way to devise a system to help these farmers, it should write off their loans just like it has been done many times in the last 70 years.

Sorry, didn't know that I was talking to a mouthpiece of newspapers who regurgitates whatever he reads, despite being aware of his ignorance.

 

[TM Riddle]

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...bt-loans-from-banks-not-moneylenders-4462930/

http://www.hindustantimes.com/opini...ure-economy/story-TkznlX88n7uWjfReMLaouM.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...governor-urjit-patel/articleshow/58056639.cms
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-financial-inclusion/articleshow/58021533.cms
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...s-are-bad-for-the-farmers-114060900535_1.html
http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/3mZ...itics-and-economics-of-farm-loan-waivers.html

 

[TM Riddle]

Sorry, didn't know that I was talking to a mouthpiece of newspapers who regurgitates whatever he reads, despite being aware of his ignorance.

Looks like he doesnt read them carefully either .

 

[LastManstanding]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/opini...ure-economy/story-TkznlX88n7uWjfReMLaouM.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...governor-urjit-patel/articleshow/58056639.cms
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-financial-inclusion/articleshow/58021533.cms
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...s-are-bad-for-the-farmers-114060900535_1.html
http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/3mZ...itics-and-economics-of-farm-loan-waivers.html

And I don't disagree with any of that. These articles rightly pointed that these loan waivers undermine the honest credit culture and encourage the honest crediter to turn defaulter. Experts clearly think that it isn't a long term solution but then you have to ask is even if it's a short term solution, whether the lives of thousands of farmers is worth the hit on the economy.

 

[LastManstanding]

Sorry, didn't know that I was talking to a mouthpiece of newspapers who regurgitates whatever he reads, despite being aware of his ignorance.

How did you come to know the ground realities and plight of those farmers? Did you go and meet them?

 

[TM Riddle]

And I don't disagree with any of that. These articles rightly pointed that these loan waivers undermine the honest credit culture and encourage the honest crediter to turn defaulter. Experts clearly think that it isn't a long term solution but then you have to ask is even if it's a short term solution, whether the lives of thousands of farmers is worth the hit on the economy.

Then why this short term solution didn't work despite govt waivering loans for 70 years.Farmers are still dying the same.Or maybe just maybe it's a failed scheme which has done nothing but hamper the economic growth from time to time since independence.

 

[CricketCartoons]

How did you come to know the ground realities and plight of those farmers? Did you go and meet them?

Yes, I did. http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...is-happier-than-Indians&p=7752477#post7752477

 

[LastManstanding]

Then why this short term solution didn't work despite govt waivering loans for 70 years.Farmers are still dying the same.Or maybe just maybe it's a failed scheme which has done nothing but hamper the economic growth from time to time since independence.

Experts would know better. Do we know whether more farmers would have died had these loans not be written off? I can only say it shows failure on the part of the government since last 70 years. India being an agrarian economy should have focussed more on farmers.

 

[TM Riddle]

Experts would know better. Do we know whether more farmers would have died had these loans not be written off? I can only say it shows failure on the part of the government since last 70 years. India being an agrarian economy should have focussed more on farmers.

I have already posted the experts view who unanimously agree that Loain waivering is a terrible idea.Don't understand what are you trying to convey here exactly?

 

[LastManstanding]

I have already posted the experts view who unanimously agree that Loain waivering is a terrible idea.Don't understand what are you trying to convey here exactly?

Its a bad idea for economy. I agree. Whether it helped save lives of few thousand farmers who would have committed suicide unable to pay their loans, debatable. And if it did save few thousand lives every year, is it worth continuing despite affecting economy adversely?

The only reason we are having this debate is because of the absence of reforms in last 70 years that would have helped farmers. If government does implement schemes like few of it already has, is it advisable to continue writing off loans till we start to see positive results? My answer yes.

Hope I have made the point clear this time.

 

[TM Riddle]

Its a bad idea for economy. I agree. Whether it helped save lives of few thousand farmers who would have committed suicide unable to pay their loans, debatable. And if it did save few thousand lives every year, is it worth continuing despite affecting economy adversely?

The only reason we are having this debate is because of the absence of reforms in last 70 years that would have helped farmers. If government does implement schemes like few of it already has, is it advisable to continue writing off loans till we start to see positive results? My answer yes.

Hope I have made the point clear this time.

Lets agree to disagree then.

 

[SandyB]

Loan waivers were a poorly executed idea to begin with . Be it for agricultural or educational purposes. You may be actually helping a few farmers from committing suicide , but given the "jugaad" and "apna kaam chalana hai bas" approach of most Indians, these waivers will be misused by vast majority of the people applying for loans.

Having worked in a bank for 2 years, I can tell you that in my experience, atleast half the people who come up for educational/agricultural loans see it as nothing but "cheap credit".

They take loans knowing that , defaulting on payments won't see any strict recovery from banks. Banks have their hands tied when it comes to agriculture and edu loans. Again the target for agricultural credit has to be met quarter on quarter, which means even bad to suspicious borrowers are sanctioned loans.

We have lionised farming and education as the "be all and end all" of Indian society. So loan write-offs are more of a 5 year ritual than a necessity these days, There are people who as soon as the loan gets sanctioned go "Well , the government is writing them off after a few years, aren't they ..?, " .

Any objection to sanctioning loans will see the issue get politicised involving the local political strongmen or the district collector and such bureaucrats . Of course the fact that our banks love to give corporate frauds like mallya crores upon crores even after proven cases of defaulting, makes it difficult for banks to explain/justify their commitment to good loans ONLY when it comes to agricultural loans.

You also need to blame the Political culture of our country which has for decades used waivers as a sort of appeasement tool . Which means a lot of farmers go into a fresh loan actively expecting a future write-off, which then kills any intention of improving productivity .