The Tuk Tuk culture Misbah-ul-Haq has brought to Pakistan team

[PakWC2015]

Oh ok, you mean the voodoo Misbah effect. Shehzad knew that Misbah will bat at 4 or 5 and that he is a tuk-tuk king therefore he decided that he himself must also tuk-tuk. And he continued with this method despite being an abject failure. The logic.... I'm trying to find it. No luck yet.

Misbah was already a regular in the side at the time of Shehzads Debut so i think your timeline may be a little off Seeing how successful Misbah was at tuk tuking, what with him becoming the captain and all. Shehzad probably thought if he continued down the path of tuk tuk he would eventually be as good at blocking as Misbah is. Enabling him to block for longer and score more runs and boost his average. Of course with a number of ODI centuries to his name it shows he was able to out perform Misbah on occasions, but was never as consistent in the art of the Tuk Tuk.

 

[Abdullah719]

Misbah was already a regular in the side at the time of Shehzads Debut so i think your timeline may be a little off Seeing how successful Misbah was at tuk tuking, what with him becoming the captain and all. Shehzad probably thought if he continued down the path of tuk tuk he would eventually be as good at blocking as Misbah is. Enabling him to block for longer and score more runs and boost his average. Of course with a number of ODI centuries to his name it shows he was able to out perform Misbah on occasions, but was never as consistent in the art of the Tuk Tuk.

Whatever helps you to sleep at night. Or do you have nightmares of tuk-tuk too?

 

[godzilla]

this total rubbish has been debunked about a billion times on pp. quite apart from it making no sense, it begs the questions as to what kind of mind would choose to bring it up even after the guy has left the team. what possible use can there be in bringing up such childish nonsense?

suffice it to say, its not just anyone with more than two brain cells and an ability to remember more than two games that has come to the conclusion that misbah is not to blame, but the icc ratings, unanimous commentators both home and abroad, and almost all journalists other than a few select retards in pakistan - theres such a massive consensus that this type of rubbish is slanderous worthless rubbish, it should be a banning offence for wasting the internet.

although flogging a dead horse wont bring it back to life, perhaps poking it with a big stick might at least help those with no vision understand it is dead:

 

[miandadrules]

Both these players are largely responsible for their own shortcomings. But not wholy with regards to Umar. Umar Akmal, should have been given an extended run in the 3/4 slot to prove his worth and to solidy a position in one of the most important roles in the team. I feel this is his ideal batting position. Instead we had Misbah giving an interview of how they want to make Umar Akmal a 'finisher'. This is not something a player can be forced into. Some players have it and others dont. Akmal was expected to be the better version of Razzaq and Afridi. Come in BANG BANG boundaries galore and lift us to amazing innings. But Akmal needs time to build an innings. He can rotate the strike and he can score boundaries. Instead if he is ever given a chance at 4 he is given A chance. Not a run at the position but A chance. He does have things to work out in his game but he is being messed around by the management. Many players get fed up of this and it is a confidence breaker.

Shehzad needs to be dropped, he is not international standard. He is a tuk tuk type of player, always on the defense. It is strange because he can middle the ball well but fails to pick out the gaps. This is something that he needs to back to domestic cricket and work hard on. As an opener, especially, his strike rate is pathetic.


Strike rotation has always been pathetic but in todays day and age it is something that should be drilled into our players. Akmal can do it, Babar Azam can do it, Fawad Alam did it well from what i recall. Shoaib Malik can even rotate the strike well. It is an important skill and one our players need to be forced to learn. If they can't do it, dont play them. To get the 300+ scores you cannot afford to have as many dot balls as Pakistan have in a match.

You're not a Afridi fan?

 

[uberkoen]

Misbah this. Misbah that. Misbah Misbah Misbah.

Stop with the blame game. The man stood up and took charge of a weak and beaten team and turned them into a decent unit that could compete at the top level. Look at us now. This is a pathetic thread.

 

[PakWC2015]

Misbah this. Misbah that. Misbah Misbah Misbah.

Stop with the blame game. The man stood up and took charge of a weak and beaten team and turned them into a decent unit that could compete at the top level. Look at us now. This is a pathetic thread.

He took charge over a weak and beaten team? The team had just done much better than expected in the world cup (Going further in the tournament than his team went in 2015, which shows a step backwards if anything) and won the last series it had played in before he took over. I wouldnt call that 'weak and beaten' infact after he left the team it was in a much worse state than when he took over.

 

[PakWC2015]

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So unless the team was doing extremely well, with a score of 100 or more with only 2 wickets down, we should just expect Misbah to bat at pathetic strike rates and bog our team down? This also does not show the bigger picture. It doesn't include the times he would be batting at 30-40S/R 50 balls into his innings. Yes with some late acceleration he managed to get his strike rate up to 70-80 BUT that was late acceleration. Before that he would be bogging down the scoring with continuous blocks and would be building up pressure. Another point your precious commentators and journalists used to pick up on often. Funny how you never mentioned that.

 

[Adijazz1706]

So unless the team was doing extremely well, with a score of 100 or more with only 2 wickets down, we should just expect Misbah to bat at pathetic strike rates and bog our team down? This also does not show the bigger picture. It doesn't include the times he would be batting at 30-40S/R 50 balls into his innings. Yes with some late acceleration he managed to get his strike rate up to 70-80 BUT that was late acceleration. Before that he would be bogging down the scoring with continuous blocks and would be building up pressure. Another point your precious commentators and journalists used to pick up on often. Funny how you never mentioned that.

This may be true but I think its time to forget this and move on. Just as with Afridi's T20 captaincy, Misbah's ODI captaincy was disastrous in terms of results but 1 has finished and the other is coming to an end (with a T20 WC win I hope. Let it go man

 

[Markhor]

No mention of a golden era in 2000s but the stats show Post 2007 WC our team was improving W/L despite the numerous changes in captaincy the replacement captain would improve on the W/L of the captain before him. Malik < YK < Afridi. From a humiliating group stages loss in 2007 we got to the Semi-Final in 2011, with some good displays along the way.

The post 2007 WC W/L ratio did improve as we went on a 10 match minnow bashing spree against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe at home in two back to back series. We still lost ODI series vs India, SA, lost Asia Cup at home, lost to SL home and away in 09, were whitewashed in Australia and lost in England in 10.

Our ODI woes are nothing new, and can't be pinned on one individual captain when the results show this mediocre ODI form is part of a longer-term trend.

 

[godzilla]

So unless the team was doing extremely well, with a score of 100 or more with only 2 wickets down, we should just expect Misbah to bat at pathetic strike rates and bog our team down? This also does not show the bigger picture. It doesn't include the times he would be batting at 30-40S/R 50 balls into his innings. Yes with some late acceleration he managed to get his strike rate up to 70-80 BUT that was late acceleration. Before that he would be bogging down the scoring with continuous blocks and would be building up pressure. Another point your precious commentators and journalists used to pick up on often. Funny how you never mentioned that.

extremely well? 100 for 2 is 'extremely well' in your books and despite that pathetic standard you expect the team to get to 300 in every match? have you had a look at the games that he hasnt played and the w/l ratio there? or how often the team is bowled out when he is not playing versus when he is playing? or how often a team wins when it is bowled out before its allotted overs?

those are the relevant questions for anyone who wants a reasonable perspective on the issue - not whether he played slowly on occasion without taking into account the sub standard batting talent he was given to play along with. and ive answered all of those questions with supporting evidence before, as have a multitude of other posters who are bothered to research with more than vague memories of a couple of matches. you very conveniently havent addressed his motive when the stats above clearly indicate his ability - thats what you call a fact. you conveniently havent addressed the supposed talent of the other batsmen the selectors gave him either, both in terms of international and domestic stature. funny how youve not mentioned anything relevant.

none of this supports the opinion that he was the best bat in the world. it does support the fact that its asinine to suppose he was the one culpable for selectors picking crap batsmen, or for there not to be decent batsmen in pakistan.

the results are no different since he left, and now its down to a culture that he poisoned everyone with? do you have any idea how childish this sounds? how do you explain the supposition that he has such widespread influence that coaches, captains (including afridi), batsmen who are all adults, have their own careers to think about are unable to resist this influence? how do you explain the fact that afridi, who allegedly has the opposite of tuk tuk culture, has produced worse results in the t20 arena than misbah did? how do you explain the fact that nowhere else in the history of the game and throughout the world, has one man (who even more, was far from dictatorial) had such a deep reaching influence in the 'culture' of the game in the country in terms of batting style, that it has lasted well beyond he has even left the team?

why is it such an impossibility to consider that a) the other batters have performed worse in domestic b) the other batters have performed worse in internationals c) the selectors keep rotating players without letting them settle d) the selectors have notoriously discarded any policy of meritocracy - all as being the reasons that the team has underperformed in its batting rather than the influence of one man who was the best bat in the side, was the captain and had every incentive to win?

these are almost medically concerning levels of delusion.

 

[WC-Passion]

No mention of a golden era in 2000s but the stats show Post 2007 WC our team was improving W/L despite the numerous changes in captaincy the replacement captain would improve on the W/L of the captain before him. Malik < YK < Afridi. From a humiliating group stages loss in 2007 we got to the Semi-Final in 2011, with some good displays along the way. We showed improvements. All this changed when Misbah took charge and the W/L dipped lower than Maliks.



Incorrect, this thread was started before the 2nd wicket fell. Not sure if it was posted after the 2nd wicket fell but the partnership of Babar and Hafeez had barely started. Was not a knee jerk thread at all. The timings can back up these claims



I have no failures. I do not play for the team. I am a fan like you and i am expressing my opinion. Umar Akmal is mostly responsible for his own failures, but not fully if i am being fair.



Nowhere did i make that claim. How i wish we could produce batsmen as good as them. But his influence certainly has limited their growth and pegged them back.



I said Misbahs effect, i never said he had to be captain for this effect to take place. People saw how Misbahs slow approach was accepted simply because he scored some runs while doing it and some players tried to adopt the same method. Unfortunately for Shehzad he has to face the new ball while Misbah gets to escape it with his lower batting order. Although i do feel Shehzad is not good enough for the team anyway, his Misbah-esque S/r has no place in ODI cricket.



I agree it is very stupid, but if you have been around this forum you will notice that is how it is. Like the post i am quoting below you. There is no real mentions of Afridi being a better player than Misbah, and no one is making comments about Afridi except for discussing the previous ODI captains (also including YK and Malik in these posts) yet the poster brings up Afridis name and takes a shot at Afridis fans. Why? Because the OP is about Misbah so i must be an Afridi fan. #Logic.

Confusing, but you never know what things are going on in someone's head.

 

[sarfarazrules]

Haha well said. [MENTION=139653]sarfarazrules[/MENTION] next time look at the stats before chatting rubbish.

His strike rate is virtually the same before, during and after Misbah's reign as captain.

Your just an obsessed Misbah fan boy who really needs to wake up from the cuckoo land you're stuck in...

 

[W63L35]

So unless the team was doing extremely well, with a score of 100 or more with only 2 wickets down, we should just expect Misbah to bat at pathetic strike rates and bog our team down?

Yes... you are right.... because these batsmen had no clue how to bat when they walked in with their in huge trouble! If they knew how to bat, they would have stabilized and anchored the innings first!


Team Score: 97/4 while chasing 267. Morgan scores 103 @ S/R of 121.17 without any six.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/426387.html


Team Score: 95/5 (56/4). Andy Flower scores 142 @ S/R of 110.93 with only 1 six. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64730.html

Team Score: 21/4. Brendon Taylor of Zimbabwe scores 128* @ S/R of 106.66.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/527014.html

Team Score: 93/5 (56/4). George Baily scores 125* @ S/R of 113.63 with only 1 six.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/573023.html


Team Score: 111/5 while chasing 327. Kevin O'Brian of Ireland scores 113 @ S/R of 179.36.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/433572.html


Team Score: 83/4. Owais Shah scores 107* @ S/R of 112.63 with only 1 six.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/258476.htm -


These are a few examples... I can find many more like these:



On the related subject....... read this...
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...with-decent-S-R-when-they-come-to-bat-at-33-3

This also does not show the bigger picture. It doesn't include the times he would be batting at 30-40S/R 50 balls into his innings. Yes with some late acceleration he managed to get his strike rate up to 70-80 BUT that was late acceleration. Before that he would be bogging down the scoring with continuous blocks and would be building up pressure. Another point your precious commentators and journalists used to pick up on often. Funny how you never mentioned that.

Let's not ask difficult and out of syllabus questions!

 

[KyoOne]

Saleem Elahi broght the tuk-tuk culture.

Dont take the credit away!

 

[The_KING]

His strike rate is virtually the same before, during and after Misbah's reign as captain.

Your just an obsessed Misbah fan boy who really needs to wake up from the cuckoo land you're stuck in...

Lol you are some obsessed Sarfraz fan who probably believes in that Sarfraz dhoka nahi dega crap. You need to wake up from the cuckoo land that you are stuck in and realize like majority here that Sarfraz is a mediocre LOI player. You go on about Misbah being poor against pacers, yet you seem to think that your hero is good against pacer. The guy tries to sweep the pacers as that's the only shot he has in his arsenal. Sarfraz will be dropped from LOIs very soon if he doesn't improve his batting and fitness and then you may need to change your name from 'sarfarazrules' to 'sarfarazsucks'

 

[shaz619]

Misbah was a limited ODI batsman who didn't thrive under pressure don't know why ya'll expected him to be a Bevan or MS Dhoni. For that line up he was a good accumulator who'd punch above his weight when he got support from his team mates.

 

[sarfarazrules]

Lol you are some obsessed Sarfraz fan who probably believes in that Sarfraz dhoka nahi dega crap. You need to wake up from the cuckoo land that you are stuck in and realize like majority here that Sarfraz is a mediocre LOI player. You go on about Misbah being poor against pacers, yet you seem to think that your hero is good against pacer. The guy tries to sweep the pacers as that's the only shot he has in his arsenal. Sarfraz will be dropped from LOIs very soon if he doesn't improve his batting and fitness and then you may need to change your name from 'sarfarazrules' to 'sarfarazsucks'

Yes Sarfraz has work to do in ODIs, he has a limited range of shots but I'm not fan of him for his LOI records.

I rate him for his test performances. The way you make out Sarfraz as if he's some next Imran Farhat. This guy is no mug, he was only one of the three Pakistanis who made it into the most recent World Test XI and that's because he is the best number 7 in the world (or wicketkeeper batsman in other words) without doubt.

I am also a fan of Yasir Shah, Younis as well because they are legendary (if not ATG) material.

As for Misbah without telling the full story he barely scrapes international standard and that's about it. I like him as a captain of the test team but that's as far as it goes...

 

[Colorblind Genius]

As usual, somehow Misbah gets blamed.

Remember, the OP was made in 2016.

Most of us knew Misbah's influence was a disaster on team. But Wasim Khan and Ehsan Mani acted extremely stupid.
Who knew, he would be shoved down our throats on a dual role and now the head coach where he will continue with his pathetic approach to cricket.

 

[emranabbas]

Misbah single handedly destroyed pakistan cricket

 

[Rana]

Misbah single handedly destroyed pakistan cricket

Very negative minded person

The kind of guy who tells everyone there is a crisis (even when there is none) and that he is the solution to that crisis

 

[emranabbas]

He was a limited player the only way he could fit him self in the team was with his silly defensive approach and the media hyping his fake averages to the sky had installed this culture in our youngsters.

 

[mrtaim3]

A question to the guys who started watching cricket before I did. How did we use to play in the 90s and early 2000s?

I started watching cricket from 2006 and we had Imran Nazir and Salman Butt opening most of times with occasional swap with Kamran Akmal.

Imran Nazir and Kamran Akmal used to play very aggressively as i far as I remember. Salman Butt was not a strong hitter but his ground shots were really good and he would find a boundary most of the times.

Before 2006, the number of highlights i saw of any match, Pakistan used to play very aggressively with Afridi opening with Saeed Anwar and Ijaz on 3.

Did we really play aggressively then or was it just an illusion of aggressive cricket and the reality was more like one four and 5 dots?

 

[MenInG]

Very negative minded person

The kind of guy who tells everyone there is a crisis (even when there is none) and that he is the solution to that crisis

Which he was.

 

[MenInG]

Remember, the OP was made in 2016.

Most of us knew Misbah's influence was a disaster on team. But Wasim Khan and Ehsan Mani acted extremely stupid.
Who knew, he would be shoved down our throats on a dual role and now the head coach where he will continue with his pathetic approach to cricket.

And what about now? He is still being asked by PCB to help.

 

[Bewal Express]

Maybe Misbah recognised that these guys aren't good enough and wanted to maximise their running scoring. But the issue is structural and nothing to do with Misbah. Domestic cricket is dominated by very average cricketers and because the system is poorly organised, no one can tell which guy is better than the other.

 

[W63L35]

Misbah left a "legacy" in ODI cricket ..... score a 75 ball fifty and let the fans jusitfy your place in the team in the name of anchoring the innings and stabalizing the innings in the name walking ar 32/2 or 32/3 or 32/4.

That is exactly what has been happening since Misbah joined the ODI cricket team.

Players have learned very well. Who cares about winning and S/R when the players are scoring runs.

 

[VForVendetta]

A question to the guys who started watching cricket before I did. How did we use to play in the 90s and early 2000s?

I started watching cricket from 2006 and we had Imran Nazir and Salman Butt opening most of times with occasional swap with Kamran Akmal.

Imran Nazir and Kamran Akmal used to play very aggressively as i far as I remember. Salman Butt was not a strong hitter but his ground shots were really good and he would find a boundary most of the times.

Before 2006, the number of highlights i saw of any match, Pakistan used to play very aggressively with Afridi opening with Saeed Anwar and Ijaz on 3.

Did we really play aggressively then or was it just an illusion of aggressive cricket and the reality was more like one four and 5 dots?

There was definitely the usual problem of consistency & more often than not getting blown away against SA & Aus, but it's true Pak played an aggressive brand. From around 94 when Anwar, Sohail & Izaz became the top 3, they had started to adopt the modern style. Later Afridi arrived & obviously blostered their approach. After Sanath & Sachin, Anwar has the highest strike rates amongst openers in the 90's who played minimum 100 matches. That definitely is an indication of the brand they played at that era.

 

[mrtaim3]

There was definitely the usual problem of consistency & more often than not getting blown away against SA & Aus, but it's true Pak played an aggressive brand. From around 94 when Anwar, Sohail & Izaz became the top 3, they had started to adopt the modern style. Later Afridi arrived & obviously blostered their approach. After Sanath & Sachin, Anwar has the highest strike rates amongst openers in the 90's who played minimum 100 matches. That definitely is an indication of the brand they played at that era.

We have regressed quite a lot in that regard then. And i have no hope that it will change anytime soon considering what Mickey Arthur said yesterday that this tuk tuk is our brand of cricket.

 

[VForVendetta]

We have regressed quite a lot in that regard then. And i have no hope that it will change anytime soon considering what Mickey Arthur said yesterday that this tuk tuk is our brand of cricket.

Well Imam definitely is not the answer & frankly neither is Babar.

 

[W63L35]

Misbah was a terrible odi captain but this tuk tuk culture is not his fault, and secondly this tuk tuk culture is way better than boom boom culture of afridi

Those were the days.... when fans used to defend Misbah's S/R of 70 but now Babar's S/R of almost 90 is bothering the heck out of them...

 

[Savak]

Those were the days.... when fans used to defend Misbah's S/R of 70 but now Babar's S/R of almost 90 is bothering the heck out of them...

It was because of 30/3

 

[W63L35]

It was because of 30/3

We have discussed this enough a few years ago... right now I don't have time and energy to debate this S/R vs average issue all over. Bottom line is ... Misbah's S/R was the wrost among almost all batsmen. Where as Babar's is much better than many batsmen.

Plus if my arguments did not convince some hardheaded fans to recognize the destruction that Misbah's ODI captaincy and ODI batting caused, I know I won't be able to convince those same old fans (or the new fans with the same mentality) that Babar is much better than Misbah when it comes to ODI batting.

Honestly, I am so enjoying the change of minds, philosophies, loyalties, perspectives ….that it is unbelievable! Fans who were huge fans of Misbah's average, are now huge haters of Babar's S/R. Sometime, I read the comments by some older posters criticizing Babar's S/R, my jaw drops to the floor that is he the same poster who used to hate me for even mentioning Misbah's S/R? I wish there was good search option on PP so I could put their opinions about Misbah and Babar side by side and ... show them their double standards about the S/R. O Well, they know who they are.

I am sure, you remeber my countless threads & posts about Misbah's horrible strike rate! You are a very good poster. Always enjoyed your posts and debate with you!

 

[ArabKnight]

Anyone have a feeling that Misbah used to rig matches to make himself look like a hero?

He used to make Ahmed Shehzad, Imran Farhat, Kamran Akmal, etc. open the batting in ODIs. So there’s an inevitable top-order collapse.

He would then come in & act as a hero by playing a class Tuk-Tuk innings. He ends up as the top-scorer for Pakistan with a 60 off 95 balls. Only he had the license to keep playing dots & milk runs at the #4 spot.

Everyone else below him had to be sloggers. Players like Afridi, Gul, Umar Akmal, Abdul Razzaq, etc. were forced to try to smash every ball to the ropes baseball style to improve the below-par RR.

Rinse and repeat. Misbah ruined the careers of proper batters by depriving them from playing a proper tempo innings. All of these batters deserved the #4 more than him — and they could’ve actually made many excellent winning 100s instead of the garbage loosing 50s that Misbah used to provide Pakistan at that spot.

@topspin

 

[SpiritOf1903]

He'd often tuktuk in big heavy losses to India. Cannot believe they threw that Mohali semi away

 

[moghul]

I was watching the TV program "pavilion" on youtube, with Wasim Akram , Moeen Khan , Shoiab Malik and Misbah as the guests. It was quite lively and interesting program , particularly to hear comments from Wasim , Moen and Shoaib, but when this guy Misbah spoke, he changed the program from lively to a dead one, boring and depressing , its the way he spoke . Same culture he brought to the team , depressed and lifeless.

 

[moghul]

He'd often tuktuk in big heavy losses to India. Cannot believe they threw that Mohali semi away

Mohali SF was the moment I started to hate this guy, he clearly killed any chance of a win for Pakistan . People say he didn't want Afridi to become a hero by becoming the winning captain against India .

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Misbah was the bane of Pak cricket for a long time. Then he struck even after his retirement by having Micky removed and himself installed. The worst kind of corruption.

 

[Energy]

It's not the tuk tuk culture. It's the ever present lobby culture that is the real issue and won't go away.