Third Pakistani pacer in ODIs?

[Deewana]

Muhammad Amir and Hassan Ali are both easily the first two names on team sheet when it comes to ODIs.(You may not agree with it but it is what it is).
So Who will be the third Pacer come World Cup Next year?
There are many candidates for that spot some of leading ones are:

1) Junaid Khan
Seems to be an okay bowler nowdays. Can bowl well in slog overs but pace mostly varies around 130-132 kph.

2)Usman Khan Shinwari
Made impressive start vs SL but got injured before NZ tour which would have been more of an acid test as SL series made everyone look better than they actually were, a good perfomance in NZ would have sealed his place in the side but the debate goes on. Had a "patchy" PSL, was impressive in some games but lost his head both times in pressure situations, gave away 16 runs vs LQ and bowled a no-ball on last ball and had no plan B once vs Akmal started smashing him and eventually gave away 48 runs in 3 overs.

3)Shaheen Afridi
Young but inexperienced. Had an Okay PSL too. Bowled a magnificent spell in one of the games but was smashed quite a few times too but his height gives him an X Factor also can bowl at 140s regularly at only 17.

4)Fahim Ashraf
Leading wicket taker in PSL so far has bowled really well can bat too but is he good enough to play as the 3rd pacer or should he be fighting for the All-rounder spot with Immad, Yamin and Nawaz.

5)Rumaan Raees
Looked pretty poor in NZ and was trundling at 125-130 kph.

Who will be your pick currently and looking into the world cup next year,
I personally would go for Shaheen, he is young, has the height can only get better!
The second choice would be Junaid as he compliments amir well and both bowl effectively as a pair.
Coming onto Fahim, i think if we were India we could have picked him as the 3rd pacer because he would add to the batting and the batting would have been able to cover the shortcomings of a 3rd pacer who isn't specialist as India do with Pandya but since our batting already is poor we want a specialist, a wicket taker.
Discuss?

 

[silent ischemia]

Sameen Gul

 

[Rayyman]

1. Junaid Khan
2. Rumman Raees
3. Usman Shinwari
4. Sameen Gul

With Faheem as fourth pacer. If we play Zafar Gohar as a second spinner to Shadab, then Faheem can be third pacer.

Shaheen has not even played one List A match. Would pick him in squad for T20Is, but not ODIs as of yet.

 

[Deewana]

Sameen Gul

1. Junaid Khan
2. Rumman Raees
3. Usman Shinwari
4. Sameen Gul

With Faheem as fourth pacer. If we play Zafar Gohar as a second spinner to Shadab, then Faheem can be third pacer.

Shaheen has not even played one List A match. Would pick him in squad for T20Is, but not ODIs as of yet.

Seriously Sameen Gul?
seems pretty ordinary, trundling at 130ks mostly

 

[Rayyman]

Seriously Sameen Gul?
seems pretty ordinary, trundling at 130ks mostly

Yes, but he is a right hander, swings the new ball, and is tall. Qualities which most of our bowlers lack.

Junaid is lefty, Rumman is lefty and not tall, Shinwari is lefty and not tall. And Hasan is short and doesn't get the new ball. Amir is lefty too.

 

[TeamPak95]

I'd stick with Junaid. He could hold up one end and have Amir attack at the other (which is what Amir should be doing, attacking the batsman, pitching the ball up and take wickets, not bowl defensive, good-lengths all the time). You'd have those two, and then have Faheem and Hasan do the same, with the former holding up one end, the latter attacking at the other. So far, these four are looking like the primary quicks for the WC for me.

 

[ads101]

Junaid used to be good enough but has decayed. Didn't have a great PSL either, so not amazing for him.

It's between Ashraf and Shinwari. I'd probably play both in the T20s, and play the best one out of the two in ODIs.

Ashraf however probably has the best allround value out of the three, and I don't believe is currently that much worse (or even a worse bowler) than those others. And of course is a better bat. Would strengthen our team more than the others as a third pacer, while atm feel he weakens it batting at 7.

So at a push, I'd say Faheem.

Afridi has potential, no harm giving him a few T20s. But probably not ready for ODIs yet.

 

[Rayyman]

Junaid used to be good enough but has decayed. Didn't have a great PSL either, so not amazing for him.

It's between Ashraf and Shinwari. I'd probably play both in the T20s, and play the best one out of the two in ODIs.

Ashraf however probably has the best allround value out of the three, and I don't believe is currently that much worse (or even a worse bowler) than those others. And of course is a better bat. Would strengthen our team more than the others as a third pacer, while atm feel he weakens it batting at 7.

So at a push, I'd say Faheem.

Afridi has potential, no harm giving him a few T20s. But probably not ready for ODIs yet.

You don't need batting. The third pacer will be at #11 any way. Plus, bowling is Pakistan's strength. They need the XI to favor that, otherwise the advantage is lost.

 

[coy0607]

Shinwari and Shaheen are both stars - I don't know how you can pick between these two

I would even take them over Amir in LOI. Pair them with Hassan and Faheem

 

[ads101]

You don't need batting. The third pacer will be at #11 any way. Plus, bowling is Pakistan's strength. They need the XI to favor that, otherwise the advantage is lost.

None of these guys are great bowlers. Hasan is great, Amir's good. We can't say bowling is our strength. I'd rather just play one mediocre fast bowler, than two currently. If anything beyond Amir and Hasan, fast bowling is our worst field, we have virtually no bench strength. And if bowling is our strength, why do we have to play an extra bowler to compete? In recent past I've rarely seen our fourth best pace bowler save us, hardly much of an advantage.

I want a decent batting line up which will put up a good total. Bigger totals to defend/ chasing bigger totals will help our bowling attack far more than an extra bowler.

People forget we will have four part time bowling options when Talat inevitably is included. Fakhar, Malik, Haris, Talat all bowl. One of these has bowled over 30,000 balls in cricket and has bowled more balls in international cricket than our next most experienced bowler in Amir. I'm a bit unsure how between them they can't make up 10 overs. That will give us 8 bowling options. Don't think we need a 9th.

If we were to go with an extra bowler, I'd go with a strength as you said. But I'd include a spinner instead of a 4th pacer, probably Zafar Gohar. But of course from Zafar I'd expect a higher standard, for him to be one of the better bowlers in the team, not someone who lags behind Hasan and Amir.

 

[MMHS]

If he wasn’t 34, I would have said Umaid Asif. Guy is like 6’4”+ and high arm action bowler. And quite nippy as well.

Without him, rest all probables are lefti which I don’t like. May be in couple of years time Sameen & Arshad will contest fir that spot.

 

[dauntless]

I would rather have wahab riaz than these trundlers are being mentioned here. Shaheen would be perfect though. Shaheen should be drafted now. He is good enough and better than others. Won't mind wahab riaz either if not shaheen.

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan need to make sure they have depth in batting. Amir , hassan , shadab are sure shot. Apart from them Pakistan should pick another spinner like zafar and faheem . Both no mugs with bat.

Also , there would be Guys like Fakhar , Harris , Malik etc who can chip in with overs

 

[silent ischemia]

Seriously Sameen Gul?
seems pretty ordinary, trundling at 130ks mostly

What was McGrath and Pollock or even Asif's pace. Sameen has uncanny ability to hit the right line n length and is a quick learner. One reason for Zalmi success

 

[Sayed]

By Considering the 2019 ODI Worldcup (England) and 2020 T20 world cup (Australia), we need 4 proper pacers in these conditions.
Apart from Amir and Hasan, Faheem should be the 3rd name on the list. Because he can be utilized for pinch hitting in death overs.
Amir Yameen should also be used as a cover for Faheem, not in the playing 11 but should be in the team squad.

For the fourth pacer, Shinwari / Shaheen Shah Afridi / Junaid / Rumman / Sameen Gul. They all will be competing for this spot.

Shadab or Imad, can be used alternative, based on the pitches and condition.

I would rather go with this playing 11.
1. Fakhar
2. Babar
3. Harris
4. Sarfaraz
5. Hussain Talat
6.Malik
7. Shadab or Imad
8. Faheem
9. Amir
10. Hasan
11. Fourth Pacer

Farhan, Amir Yameen, Umar Amin and 1 Wicket keeper batsmen on a bench and will be used as a cover for the playing 11.

 

[Sayed]

In the above mentioned team, Malik, Talat and Haris can also roll their arm for few overs.

 

[Hasan123]

Shaheen or Shinwari.

 

[Greenstorm]

Either Shaheen or Shinwari. Junaid as a back up bowler.

 

[CricFan2012]

Junaid is awful, when will people realize this? His champion trophy bowling was reaping Amir's tight bowling and Hasan's brilliant bowling, don't let it fool you.

Junaid brings nothing to the table. Amir can at least keep the run rate low, Hasan is a wicket taker, Rumman has variations that can always bring wickets.

 

[Ahson8]

The man, the myth, the legend

 

[blackanhyellow]

By Considering the 2019 ODI Worldcup (England) and 2020 T20 world cup (Australia), we need 4 proper pacers in these conditions.
Apart from Amir and Hasan, Faheem should be the 3rd name on the list. Because he can be utilized for pinch hitting in death overs.
Amir Yameen should also be used as a cover for Faheem, not in the playing 11 but should be in the team squad.

For the fourth pacer, Shinwari / Shaheen Shah Afridi / Junaid / Rumman / Sameen Gul. They all will be competing for this spot.

Shadab or Imad, can be used alternative, based on the pitches and condition.

I would rather go with this playing 11.
1. Fakhar
2. Babar
3. Harris
4. Sarfaraz
5. Hussain Talat
6.Malik
7. Shadab or Imad
8. Faheem
9. Amir
10. Hasan
11. Fourth Pacer

Farhan, Amir Yameen, Umar Amin and 1 Wicket keeper batsmen on a bench and will be used as a cover for the playing 11.

Yes pretty much this should be the ODI team. Fourth pacer to be shinwari.

Also can be the t20 team with one change, Asif ali comes in for haris sohail.

 

[Syed1]

The man, the myth, the legend

No captain, coach or chief selector is strong enough to keep the Rahat out

 

[Abdullah719]

No captain, coach or chief selector is strong enough to keep the Rahat out

The only dilemma is that he is far above the lowly title of third pacer

Decisions, decisions

 

[Rayyman]

By Considering the 2019 ODI Worldcup (England) and 2020 T20 world cup (Australia), we need 4 proper pacers in these conditions.
Apart from Amir and Hasan, Faheem should be the 3rd name on the list. Because he can be utilized for pinch hitting in death overs.
Amir Yameen should also be used as a cover for Faheem, not in the playing 11 but should be in the team squad.

For the fourth pacer, Shinwari / Shaheen Shah Afridi / Junaid / Rumman / Sameen Gul. They all will be competing for this spot.

Shadab or Imad, can be used alternative, based on the pitches and condition.

I would rather go with this playing 11.
1. Fakhar
2. Babar
3. Harris
4. Sarfaraz
5. Hussain Talat
6.Malik
7. Shadab or Imad
8. Faheem
9. Amir
10. Hasan
11. Fourth Pacer

Farhan, Amir Yameen, Umar Amin and 1 Wicket keeper batsmen on a bench and will be used as a cover for the playing 11.

Why not just drop Malik and play both Shadab and Imad?

 

[ManFan]

Faheem is guaranteed a place in the playing XI as a pace-bowling all-rounder.
Between UKS, JK, Raees, and SSA, Junaid is your best bet. He’s a proven performer in ENG and was central in performing against SL, ENG, and even IND in the CT.

 

[HuzaifaE]

What was McGrath and Pollock or even Asif's pace. Sameen has uncanny ability to hit the right line n length and is a quick learner. One reason for Zalmi success

Oh please, Sameen is an Ehsan Adil, not a Mohammad Asif.

 

[HuzaifaE]

I can't say I'm against Shaheen being introduced, I can't see an argument that Junaid is better at his current level and the experience Shaheen would gain would help accelerate his development. Get him in, we've had a rich tradition of throwing our talented youngsters into the deep end and having them mold their careers by learning how to swim straight away instead of some 10 year first class level grind, I don't think it's something that particularly needs changing when we aren't blessed with a good established 3rd pacer.

 

[Square Drive]

My realistic line-up for a hypothetical ODI to be played today (Haris, Imad, Rumman all unavailable due to injury):

Playing XI:

Fakhar Zaman (VC)
Umar Amin
Babar Azam
Sarfraz Ahmed* (WK)
Shoaib Malik
Hussain Talat
Shadab Khan
Fahim Ashraf
Mohammad Nawaz
Hasan Ali
Mohammad Amir

Bench: Sahibzada Farhan, Aamer Yamin, Usman Shinwari, Junaid Khan, Shaheen Afridi, Zafar Gohar

Your 3rd pacer is Fahim, with Talat as the 4th pacer and Amin as the 5th pacer (won't be required).

 

[Hiraeth]

Faheem is guaranteed a place in the playing XI as a pace-bowling all-rounder.
Between UKS, JK, Raees, and SSA, Junaid is your best bet. He’s a proven performer in ENG and was central in performing against SL, ENG, and even IND in the CT.

Oh please. Junaid is C-R-A-P. He averages a mighty 31 since his return despite one flukey CT tournament. No need to settle with such mediocre standards.

 

[ManFan]

Oh please. Junaid is C-R-A-P. He averages a mighty 31 since his return despite one flukey CT tournament. No need to settle with such mediocre standards.

Perhaps so but the numbers say otherwise. He had a bad time in AUS, as did all our pacers except Hasan. Even than, he was able to dismiss their best batsman 3 times.

 

[Bilal7]

Why is this still a debate? Junaid Khan is clearly part of our best attack and that should remain true through to the next World Cup, barring injury or a severe dip in form.

 

[Rayyman]

Perhaps so but the numbers say otherwise. He had a bad time in AUS, as did all our pacers except Hasan. Even than, he was able to dismiss their best batsman 3 times.

Even Hasan struggled in Aus. Gave up 100+ runs in one match.

 

[babajee]

Amir
Hasan
Junaid

Proved it on the big stage.

 

[ManFan]

Even Hasan struggled in Aus. Gave up 100+ runs in one match.

His overall figures were:
1st ODI: 3-65
2nd ODI: 1-29
3rd ODI: 1-62
4th ODI: 5-52
5th ODI: 2-100
Overall, 12 wickets in 5 games at 25.67 in his first tour of AUS.

That’s outstanding especially for a bowler that does not have height, speed, swing, on his side. I’m aware he can swing the ball at 140+ but he did not do so on that tour. The only other PAK bowler I can remember getting a 5-fer’ on debut in an ODI in AUS was Waz. He got 5-21 and they were the top 5 which included Wessels, Jones, Border, Hughes.

He was the best bowler on that tour and should have been played in the Test matches.

 

[Rana]

Tbh,

Amir, Hassan and Junaid are top class bowlers and a dream trio for most teams around the world.

The reserve bank is quite strong also...

Faheem

Rumman
Rahat
Shinwari
Wahab
Sohail Khan

The third tier now looks quite exciting

Sami
Umaid
Sameen Gul
Anwar Ali
Mohammad Abbas
Talat
Amad Butt

Not bad tbh

 

[ads101]

After the conclusion of PSL, think let's back him and go with Faheem as third pacer. And Talat handle fourth pacer if we need it. If Faheem can be best bowler of the PSL, why can't he hold down the third pacer slot?

 

[ManFan]

After the conclusion of PSL, think let's back him and go with Faheem as third pacer. And Talat handle fourth pacer if we need it. If Faheem can be best bowler of the PSL, why can't he hold down the third pacer slot?

He is not strong enough as a third seamer in international cricket. He’s improved leaps since his debut in the CT but he has a LONG way to go to even be considered as a third pacer.

Talat got lucky today as his bowling in the PSL has been below-par. He is not a bowler but a batter who can bowl medium pace part time.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Junaid I feel brings the best out of both him and Amir, we need bowlers to do serious damage upfront like how Southee and Boult do for NZ. We are a team in which bowling is our strength so we should look to try and maximise it.

 

[ads101]

He is not strong enough as a third seamer in international cricket. He’s improved leaps since his debut in the CT but he has a LONG way to go to even be considered as a third pacer.

Talat got lucky today as his bowling in the PSL has been below-par. He is not a bowler but a batter who can bowl medium pace part time.

Neither are the others then. He outbowled the other supposed third pacer options like Junaid in this PSL. And both Junaid and Raees have pretty much been averaging mid 30s of late, not exactly quality. If they are to average that, I'd rather they bat.

Talat's just a part timer I agree. It's just that we have four part timers in the team now if Talat plays (and Fahim isn't regarded as a part timer and plays at 3rd pacer position). If they can all bowl 2/3 overs each, will be enough. Though I expect Haris and Malik to do the bulk of it.

I'd rather have an average third pacer that can bat vs an average (or even slightly better) third pacer who can't. And I'd rather have a good batsman at 7, than a weak batsman at 7 who can bowl (which is what Faheem). If anything despite his obvious talent with the bat, Faheem's stronger suit is his bowling. It's clear that's what he's worked on, and that's what he's most comfortable at. It'll take far longer to make him a quality bat than it will to make him a decent bowler. He's already used to averaging mid 20s in domestic. While with the bat, he's used to batting down the order and averaging 18. Which is pretty much his role in internationals too, picked for his batting supposedly and bats below Shadab at 8.

 

[moghul]

Never been a big fan of Wahab , but he was fast, fitter , accurate and hostile during whole of the PSL. Perhaps the best fast man in this years PSL . Can easily remain in top shape till 2019 WC .

 

[dauntless]

Now I m convinced after watching this whole tournament. Wahab deserves his chance now.No need of trundlers like junaid usman and rumman. Even rahat Ali was very good he outbowled all these guys. So wahab for me is the third pacer.

 

[boomboom6]

Junaid Khan ... why is this even a debate? The trio of Amir, Junaid and Hasan did wonders in CT when Wahab was finally benched for Junaid.

Faheem right now is 4th pacer material in ODIs but can be 3rd pacer in t20s allowing for 1 more batsman/all-rounder to be played.

 

[Justcrazy]

faheem can be third pacer in helpful condition.

 

[FreePalestine]

For T20's:

1. Fakhar
2. Sarfraz
3. Azam
4. Malik
5. Talat
6. Asif
7. Shadab
8. Faheem
9. Nawaz
10. Hasan
11. Amir

 

[barah_admi]

Raees is already a regular so I dont see why he wouldnt be in 2019 unless he has really really bad form or injury. Add to that Faheem obviously being the all rounder, Pak are pretty much set, with healthy competition for Junaid, Usman and imo Irfan, Irfan Jr and Sameen all higher on the pecking order than Shaheen.

 

[barah_admi]

The bowling attack in ODIs for me should be:

Amir
Hasan (only having 3 overs up front, so that he can ball the bulk in middle and late overs)

1st change - Raees (could also open) or Faheem

2nd change - one of the two above

Spinners - Shadab and Nawaz

About 5 of the above 6 are handy with the bat, with at least Shadab good enough to build a considerable innings.

 

[Justcrazy]

Hassan , Amir , shadab , faheem are sealed .

pakistan should play another spinner I think , someone who can bat . That will be good , with fakhar and harris to chip in.