This match shows the importance of playing Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf in SENA countries

[Bleedgreen4ever]

In my opinion Yasir is extremely useless in overseas tests
Should go with Shadab who can bat well too.

Faheem is an absolute must in such conditions.

Remember when we won against ENG and IRE both Shadab and Faheem saved us othevise we would have had a repeat of the NZ series.

Our fragile MO needs a proper good LO

For me

Drop Shafiq and play Faheem who can bat and ball.
Drop Yasir and play Shadab.

We won in ENG(Lords) and IRE because of proper team balance...we needed that against NZ and now against SA.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

In my opinion Yasir is extremely useless in overseas tests
Should go with Shadab who can bat well too.

Faheem is an absolute must in such conditions.

Remember when we won against ENG and IRE both Shadab and Faheem saved us othevise we would have had a repeat of the NZ series.

Our fragile MO needs a proper good LO

For me

Drop Shafiq and play Faheem who can bat and ball.
Drop Yasir and play Shadab.

We won in ENG(Lords) and IRE because of proper team balance...we needed that against NZ and now against SA.

We need batsmen, and a good spinner in the squad. Azhar and Shafiq have been given too many chances and they must be dropped for players like Usman Salahuddin and Saad Ali or Saud Shakeel or Abid Ali.

An All rounder is always important whether on overseas tours or in the UAE, we cannot just exhaust our 4 main bowlers. As you mentioned, Faheem is a must in this team, especially on overseas tour, he can be really useful, especially with his bowling on good areas and at a decent pace (plus batting).

I am not really sure about Shadab, for me he has not played enough first class to be selected. I would prefer a left arm spinner in these conditions, a player like Kashif Bhatti would be ideal here.

 

[Babbar]

May be I missed something but I did not see Shadab and Faheem doing magic with the ball in this match!

 

[TM Riddle]

Yasir who is an extremely good bowler has failed and you expect a rookie like Shadab to do well in these days?
And Faheem, he's a poor man's Hardik Pandya at best.
That's the problem with some of you fans. You think the reason your team has been down is because of selection issues when infact problem goes much deeper.

 

[TM Riddle]

Yasir who is an extremely good bowler has failed and you expect a rookie like Shadab to do well in these days?
And Faheem, he's a poor man's Hardik Pandya at best.
That's the problem with some of you fans. You think the reason your team has been down is because of selection issues when infact problem goes much deeper.

*in these conditions

 

[Abdullah]

May be I missed something but I did not see Shadab and Faheem doing magic with the ball in this match!

It's not about magic, it is about maintaining intensity with the ball. Faheem can bowl the nagging lengths, and it becomes a 5 man attack.
Also shadab/faheem are equally likely of scoring a 40-70 score as our main bats on a given day, so gives us more of a chance to get to a score batting first if we have 8 options rather than 7.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Yasir who is an extremely good bowler has failed and you expect a rookie like Shadab to do well in these days?
And Faheem, he's a poor man's Hardik Pandya at best.
That's the problem with some of you fans. You think the reason your team has been down is because of selection issues when infact problem goes much deeper.

Any leg spinner would fail on this pitch, going with Yasir was an extremely wrong decision. We do not have bowlers to test the South Africans, and I really don’t think that their batting is as good as it used to be. Our bowlers try too many things and fail to bowl on one consistent line. Faheem actually bowls on good areas and would have been good, at least for this test. Shadab has failed and no chance he will do better, especially in these conditions

 

[Barragan]

The pitched eased out after the 1st session, but our rubbish batsmen couldn't even last a session!

When your main batsmen can't do anything, then why do you expect pseudo-allrounders to bat like main batsmen?

Faheem's bowling would have been useful, otherwise both are dud picks.

 

[Markhor]

What happened at Headingley ?

What in Shadab Khan's Test career suggests he can hold up an end in unfavourable overseas conditions ?

 

[Attiq_Lone]

More than anything, it is also the fault of the field positions that we were not able to pick wickets in this test. Lack of ideas by the captain, has not attacked them enough.

Batting we already know what the problem is. Apart the cracks, it is easy to bat on this pitch. Bavuma and faf have put up a really good partnership.

 

[jadaja]

People like op need to stop living in lala land, three main bowlers have done nothing but a trundler is supposed to be cure of all ills.Shadbad is not even patch on Yasir but he is supposed to be match winner.

When Pigs fly all these things are possible.

 

[Khwaja78]

I'm actually glad they are not playing, let this senior garbage expose themselves and the people responsible for helping them stay in the team.

Our situation is so dire we need an overhaul not in the team in the higher up positions. PCB is more responsible they have failed to address merit. PCB chairman was changed to 'clean up' the system and bring merit. His go slow and silence has put the team in pathetic Sheharyar Khan 2.0 term. Mani has zero control in the board. The guy who can't make decisions has been given a chairman job, shame.

Even a Viv richards can't lift this team its so deep.

 

[Savak]

Said it before

 

[iPakistani]

People like op need to stop living in lala land, three main bowlers have done nothing but a trundler is supposed to be cure of all ills.Shadbad is not even patch on Yasir but he is supposed to be match winner.

When Pigs fly all these things are possible.

People like you would have also said what can Shan Masood do in this series if players like Azhar or Shafiq can't do it. You never know unless you try it.

 

[Plumb]

Ya promote T20 players in tests... get real people This is test cricket not gully cricket where any tom dick n harry will succeed.

Pick players from first class who have the temperament to bowl/bat longer and with proper technique.

Stop looking into T20/ODI players to win you test matches, stop looking into Harris to become a all rounder or shan to become all rounder. Stop promoting bits n pieces players. Pick proper first class players and you will see the difference. Problem is Mickey and Inzi do not support this thought..

Its embarrassing to even discuss test cricket at this point

 

[jadaja]

People like you would have also said what can Shan Masood do in this series if players like Azhar or Shafiq can't do it. You never know unless you try it.

Shan Masood has not done anything extra ordinary.You don't try new people by dropping established ones.They have to dropped from the team .It won't happen that quickly.

 

[topspin]

Shadab is a lesser spinner to Yasir but as mentioned in my XI posts that we need his tail end runs more because I knew Yasir was going to be toothless with bat and ball.

 

[jadaja]

Shadab is a lesser spinner to Yasir but as mentioned in my XI posts that we need his tail end runs more because I knew Yasir was going to be toothless with bat and ball.

You don't select bowlers becuase of his batting.You need to select your best bowlers and batsmen.Bits and pieces players will not work in Tests.

 

[topspin]

You don't select bowlers becuase of his batting.You need to select your best bowlers and batsmen.Bits and pieces players will not work in Tests.

You're absolutely right but you have to make the best out of the rubbish in the squad. The only spin bowling AR in the team happens to be Shadab.

 

[AFM]

You don't select bowlers becuase of his batting.You need to select your best bowlers and batsmen.Bits and pieces players will not work in Tests.

You select them to manage the workload of the three main bowlers. People are complaining about the pace of out seamers. Of course the pace would be down after being bowled to the ground.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Yasir would not have a big impact in SA. That's why you replace him with Faheem and Shadab with Asad Technique.

 

[Mamoon]

Both are rubbish.

 

[Titan24]

Its not only about the bowling options and batting depth they provide, having 5 bowlers also allow the 3 man pacers to ball with full pace.

With 3 man pace attack they are always conserving energy and pace drops in the 2nd spell on wards big time.

 

[Fahdi]

Playing Yasir has been a huge blunder on our part. He has no role to play unless the match somehow goes to day 5

 

[SportsWarrior]

In their current avatar they won't succeed in test matches

 

[Kaka_Hathrasi]

Sir [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]. I am ur big fan, the way u do the cricketing analysis of teams and players. You r like Ian Chappel straight and blunt. I just want to know that as you say that simply no quality players are there in the Pakistan team. Is there a dearth of talent as Mudassar Nazar too pointed out? Whats the main problem?? How can it be sorted?? How long will it take? I have noticed that after 2003 world cup, there has been a slow decline in Pak team and after every world cup the team loses star players to retirement and their void doesnt get filled.

 

[MMHS]

This match shows that in cricket first you need a Captain who makes the XI on playing merit and can command the team on field.

For PAK team, they first need batsmen to score some runs, then bowlers to bowl with discipline..... finally runs from “all-rounders”.

For Shadab & Fahim - it’s their good fortune that both are kept out & rightly so, otherwise they would have been exposed big time. Fahim still might make the XI for bowling, I don’t know but Shadab, come on guys.

 

[IMMY69]

Well both were in my team for this match...

In these conditions it’s all about the batting...
We simply can’t afford to go in with a bunny like Yasir and Fahim has tremendous potential with the ball.

 

[yasir]

This match shows that in cricket first you need a Captain who makes the XI on playing merit and can command the team on field.

For PAK team, they first need batsmen to score some runs, then bowlers to bowl with discipline..... finally runs from “all-rounders”.

For Shadab & Fahim - it’s their good fortune that both are kept out & rightly so, otherwise they would have been exposed big time. Fahim still might make the XI for bowling, I don’t know but Shadab, come on guys.

First off, what exactly has Yasir done, giving away 4 an over?? - Shadab ball actually spins. Yasir has been in test team for 3/4 years, yet he cannot get into ODI or T20. Even in test and that too in UAE he is only useful in 4/5 day, rest he is as flat as here... Yasir ball does not spin, he is DRS bowler, Delusional Pakistanis have put him to Moon for no reason... I have said it many times, you play Shadab in UAE as second spinner, then we can see the real gulf between the two...

Shadab has scored three 50s in three test in UK early summer, that helped Pakistan won two test their, otherwise we would have lost both of them. Its not a fluke, we have not seen that fluke from Yasir in 33 tests, many of them in UAE, where nothing happens and ball comes in slow motion

Most UAE Pakistani batting products have zero back foot game, Faheem has decent hook and pull. Again he scored in UK...His bowling is better than what we saw today from all three seamers, who failed to register above 130, you can pick a guy from crowd they would bowl better than trundlers at 130, with that level of fitness why in the world we afford to play 6+4?? - 5+3+2 is only way we can have decent show, we still cannot win, but we would have lost atleast 2 test this season, if we have 5+3+2. With 5+3+2, we extend our batting to 8 and bowling to 5(4 seamers and leggy). Bowlers will be happy to bowl 16 overs a day and fresh (although fitness level of these guys is another issue)...

UAE products are killing us in general. All these test so called UAE stars(Hafeez,Azhar, Shafiq, Sarfraz, Yasir), cannot play anywhere or any other format, barrier to entry is too low their and you ruin your cricket down to the ground...UAE, combine with Green wickets at home has killed fast bowlers. This Non sense must stop

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan missed Pat cummins, Bumrah

 

[CricketDon]

We don’t need bits and pieces utility cricketers. We’ve got enough I. The ODI side don’t need them in a test side.

We need specialist batsman and bowlers. If they can do the other facet well that’s a benefit.

Faheem is not a test caliber batsman at any level. His bowling would be creamed and miller at 4 am over every over.

Shadab their can be a case made. He’s a good spinner but no where near test quality. He’d probably take the odd wicket a game. His batting however is beyond poor and would score literally nothing. His score cards would look like this, 3(12) 7(22).

We need proper batsman and proper bowlers who do their job well.

 

[hadi123]

People say Shadab Khan is not a good bowler but Yasir Shah has been awful too! And at least Shadab can bat a bit too

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Some people need to wake up! They want to keep selecting the same team over and over again, despite pak consistently losing. And why? For the sake of continuity.

Laughable and completely the wrong attitude.

Pakistan has lost 13 of their last 20 tests. It is likely to be 14 of the last 21 after this test.

Yet, according to these people, we should just keep playing the same old guys.

 

[Outswinger]

Yes, a fifth bowler would help but serious pace is also required. 130kph ain't going to cut it.

 

[Mamoon]

Sir [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]. I am ur big fan, the way u do the cricketing analysis of teams and players. You r like Ian Chappel straight and blunt. I just want to know that as you say that simply no quality players are there in the Pakistan team. Is there a dearth of talent as Mudassar Nazar too pointed out? Whats the main problem?? How can it be sorted?? How long will it take? I have noticed that after 2003 world cup, there has been a slow decline in Pak team and after every world cup the team loses star players to retirement and their void doesnt get filled.

Thank you for your kind and humbling words. I think that Pakistan cricket has reached a point where we can no longer waste time on making fantasy XIs and advocate for player X or player Y.

We must accept the fact that there is a serious dearth of quality players in the country - it is a full blown crisis. Every player that is hyped up in domestic cricket proves to be out of his depth in international cricket.

Our cricket culture is rotten to the core. Not only are we producing poor players but we are also producing poor personalities. Merely investing in first-class and club cricket is not enough.

We need to bring back the middle and upper class back to the game. Then and only then can we produce players with proper personalities who would not make fools of themselves in the media.

In the last 20-30 years, cricket has gone to the villages and remote areas. People from educated backgrounds are not interested in taking cricket as a profession. This has had a negative impact on our talent pool as well as the types of personalities that we are producing.

These “I would like to thank my senior players and XYZ bhai for giving me confidence” type cricketers have run Pakistan cricket into the ground.

Not only are they pathetic players, they have zero communication skills, cannot sledge or respond to sledging and are easily intimidated by the opposition. They are also uncomfortable with their newfound celebrity status and cannot handle the spotlight, which is why they act like fools.

Simply put, they are nobodies compared to the personalities that we produced in the past.

The only solution is to invest heavily in school cricket. The affluent schools in Pakistan need to focus on cricket and provide scholarships to talented students so that they can improve their game as well as focus on education.

All this talk of you don’t need education to be a good cricketer etc. is nonsense. We don’t need players with PhDs, but certain basic level of education is essential.

Pakistan has the second biggest population in the cricket world and it is by far the most popular and loved sport in the country. Their is tremendous room for growth and it is never too late. However, the damage that has been done over the last few decades is so severe that it will take many, many years to get things back on track.

Furthermore, the state of the country has a big impact on the game. Whatever happens at the macro level influences the PCB as well. As long as there is instability and security threat, PCB will not be able to accomplish much.

Pakistan cricket can most definitely recover and be among the leading cricket teams, but it will require some very smart decision-making and a change of perception in terms of how the country is viewed globally. While it is doable, I personally don’t see it happening which is why I am adamant that Pakistan is finished as an elite cricket nation.

As a cricket crazy nation, it is indeed heartbreaking and it will take a long time for the fans to come to terms with reality. A lot of people are in denial simply because the expectations are too high - it will take considerable time for them to acknowledge that Pakistan cricket is not in the position to meet their standards and expectations.

 

[The Viper]

Shadab would have not done much with the ball. Don’t know how long he would survive against SAF bowlers,

 

[Hasan123]

Shadab is not a test match bowler. Specialist batsmen have struggled against this SA attack and you think these 2 can score half centuries regularly against this attack? Give me a break.

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Thank you for your kind and humbling words. I think that Pakistan cricket has reached a point where we can no longer waste time on making fantasy XIs and advocate for player X or player Y.

We must accept the fact that there is a serious dearth of quality players in the country - it is a full blown crisis. Every player that is hyped up in domestic cricket proves to be out of his depth in international cricket.

Our cricket culture is rotten to the core. Not only are we producing poor players but we are also producing poor personalities. Merely investing in first-class and club cricket is not enough.

We need to bring back the middle and upper class back to the game. Then and only then can we produce players with proper personalities who would not make fools of themselves in the media.

In the last 20-30 years, cricket has gone to the villages and remote areas. People from educated backgrounds are not interested in taking cricket as a profession. This has had a negative impact on our talent pool as well as the types of personalities that we are producing.

These “I would like to thank my senior players and XYZ bhai for giving me confidence” type cricketers have run Pakistan cricket into the ground.

Not only are they pathetic players, they have zero communication skills, cannot sledge or respond to sledging and are easily intimidated by the opposition. They are also uncomfortable with their newfound celebrity status and cannot handle the spotlight, which is why they act like fools.

Simply put, they are nobodies compared to the personalities that we produced in the past.

The only solution is to invest heavily in school cricket. The affluent schools in Pakistan need to focus on cricket and provide scholarships to talented students so that they can improve their game as well as focus on education.

All this talk of you don’t need education to be a good cricketer etc. is nonsense. We don’t need players with PhDs, but certain basic level of education is essential.

Pakistan has the second biggest population in the cricket world and it is by far the most popular and loved sport in the country. Their is tremendous room for growth and it is never too late. However, the damage that has been done over the last few decades is so severe that it will take many, many years to get things back on track.

Furthermore, the state of the country has a big impact on the game. Whatever happens at the macro level influences the PCB as well. As long as there is instability and security threat, PCB will not be able to accomplish much.

Pakistan cricket can most definitely recover and be among the leading cricket teams, but it will require some very smart decision-making and a change of perception in terms of how the country is viewed globally. While it is doable, I personally don’t see it happening which is why I am adamant that Pakistan is finished as an elite cricket nation.

As a cricket crazy nation, it is indeed heartbreaking and it will take a long time for the fans to come to terms with reality. A lot of people are in denial simply because the expectations are too high - it will take considerable time for them to acknowledge that Pakistan cricket is not in the position to meet their standards and expectations.

Truth has been spoken with pure honesty. New fan sir!

 

[Shandarchowka]

Been advocating this for a long time now! We should play the following tail -

Shadab
Faheem
Amir
Abbas
Shaheen

 

[Attiq_Lone]

Been advocating this for a long time now! We should play the following tail -

Shadab
Faheem
Amir
Abbas
Shaheen

For me shadab in test is a big no no. I would sincerly select Kashif Bhatti from domestic, and give him a go.

 

[Shandarchowka]

For me shadab in test is a big no no. I would sincerly select Kashif Bhatti from domestic, and give him a go.

In South Africa spinners have a holding role which Shady is more than capable of. Besides, he is an excellent batsman and can easily keep scoring crucial 30 runs lower down the order.

 

[SportsWarrior]

Thank you for your kind and humbling words. I think that Pakistan cricket has reached a point where we can no longer waste time on making fantasy XIs and advocate for player X or player Y.

We must accept the fact that there is a serious dearth of quality players in the country - it is a full blown crisis. Every player that is hyped up in domestic cricket proves to be out of his depth in international cricket.

Our cricket culture is rotten to the core. Not only are we producing poor players but we are also producing poor personalities. Merely investing in first-class and club cricket is not enough.

We need to bring back the middle and upper class back to the game. Then and only then can we produce players with proper personalities who would not make fools of themselves in the media.

In the last 20-30 years, cricket has gone to the villages and remote areas. People from educated backgrounds are not interested in taking cricket as a profession. This has had a negative impact on our talent pool as well as the types of personalities that we are producing.

These “I would like to thank my senior players and XYZ bhai for giving me confidence” type cricketers have run Pakistan cricket into the ground.

Not only are they pathetic players, they have zero communication skills, cannot sledge or respond to sledging and are easily intimidated by the opposition. They are also uncomfortable with their newfound celebrity status and cannot handle the spotlight, which is why they act like fools.

Simply put, they are nobodies compared to the personalities that we produced in the past.

The only solution is to invest heavily in school cricket. The affluent schools in Pakistan need to focus on cricket and provide scholarships to talented students so that they can improve their game as well as focus on education.

All this talk of you don’t need education to be a good cricketer etc. is nonsense. We don’t need players with PhDs, but certain basic level of education is essential.

Pakistan has the second biggest population in the cricket world and it is by far the most popular and loved sport in the country. Their is tremendous room for growth and it is never too late. However, the damage that has been done over the last few decades is so severe that it will take many, many years to get things back on track.

Furthermore, the state of the country has a big impact on the game. Whatever happens at the macro level influences the PCB as well. As long as there is instability and security threat, PCB will not be able to accomplish much.

Pakistan cricket can most definitely recover and be among the leading cricket teams, but it will require some very smart decision-making and a change of perception in terms of how the country is viewed globally. While it is doable, I personally don’t see it happening which is why I am adamant that Pakistan is finished as an elite cricket nation.

As a cricket crazy nation, it is indeed heartbreaking and it will take a long time for the fans to come to terms with reality. A lot of people are in denial simply because the expectations are too high - it will take considerable time for them to acknowledge that Pakistan cricket is not in the position to meet their standards and expectations.

I agree with what you have written, although you seem to have a bias towards personalities from upper and affluent classes. You can have great personalities coming from lower middle class too provided they are guided well and mentored well. Dhoni, Sehwag, Pant, etc are not necessarily from affluent families or top schools. It is just that rubbing shoulders with giants has give them lot of confidence.

One more thing to consider is that, Pakistan always had a very mediocre system in place. They hardly build institution. Pakistanies general mentality is to get quick results without spending time to build solution which will last long term. it is evident every where in your society. PCB/BCCI were equally useless, corrupt, organizations few decades back and over the years, brick by brick BCCI has built a commendable institution which can sustain on its own even when it is constantly under scrutiny by SC. Pak has to do the same. ALl their past heroes were groomed mostly in counties.. I don't think PCB can take much credit for IK, WY, Wasim, etc super star status and skill level. Most of it was honed in England counties..

 

[Muhammad10]

In South Africa spinners have a holding role which Shady is more than capable of. Besides, he is an excellent batsman and can easily keep scoring crucial 30 runs lower down the order.

Brother, I agree that a relapse is imperative, and Shady, our slim all-rounder, should be in the 11. His would be a low-key selection but with potentially savage consequences.

 

[Savak]

Thank you for your kind and humbling words. I think that Pakistan cricket has reached a point where we can no longer waste time on making fantasy XIs and advocate for player X or player Y.

We must accept the fact that there is a serious dearth of quality players in the country - it is a full blown crisis. Every player that is hyped up in domestic cricket proves to be out of his depth in international cricket.

Our cricket culture is rotten to the core. Not only are we producing poor players but we are also producing poor personalities. Merely investing in first-class and club cricket is not enough.

We need to bring back the middle and upper class back to the game. Then and only then can we produce players with proper personalities who would not make fools of themselves in the media.

In the last 20-30 years, cricket has gone to the villages and remote areas. People from educated backgrounds are not interested in taking cricket as a profession. This has had a negative impact on our talent pool as well as the types of personalities that we are producing.

These “I would like to thank my senior players and XYZ bhai for giving me confidence” type cricketers have run Pakistan cricket into the ground.

Not only are they pathetic players, they have zero communication skills, cannot sledge or respond to sledging and are easily intimidated by the opposition. They are also uncomfortable with their newfound celebrity status and cannot handle the spotlight, which is why they act like fools.

Simply put, they are nobodies compared to the personalities that we produced in the past.

The only solution is to invest heavily in school cricket. The affluent schools in Pakistan need to focus on cricket and provide scholarships to talented students so that they can improve their game as well as focus on education.

All this talk of you don’t need education to be a good cricketer etc. is nonsense. We don’t need players with PhDs, but certain basic level of education is essential.

Pakistan has the second biggest population in the cricket world and it is by far the most popular and loved sport in the country. Their is tremendous room for growth and it is never too late. However, the damage that has been done over the last few decades is so severe that it will take many, many years to get things back on track.

Furthermore, the state of the country has a big impact on the game. Whatever happens at the macro level influences the PCB as well. As long as there is instability and security threat, PCB will not be able to accomplish much.

Pakistan cricket can most definitely recover and be among the leading cricket teams, but it will require some very smart decision-making and a change of perception in terms of how the country is viewed globally. While it is doable, I personally don’t see it happening which is why I am adamant that Pakistan is finished as an elite cricket nation.

As a cricket crazy nation, it is indeed heartbreaking and it will take a long time for the fans to come to terms with reality. A lot of people are in denial simply because the expectations are too high - it will take considerable time for them to acknowledge that Pakistan cricket is not in the position to meet their standards and expectations.

People will take offense to this post as an elitist snobbish post. But seriously speaking for debates sake, if you want to encourage affluent kids, upper middle class kids and the educated class to take up this sport, the pay involved for Pakistani national players especially and in domestic cricket to an extent has to go up by a big amount which will motivate younger players to take up the sport.

At the moment the pays in domestic cricket are absolutely squalid and not enough to entire kids from IBA, Lums, Szabist, CBM, AKU, Dow, Ziauddin or major Accounting Schools to take up the sport. Also these institutions should allow the players flexibility in completing their education for e.g. distance learning, online learning and really good players and in turn should be given an opportunity to somehow give back to society via their skills learnt in the game.

To be honest, the religious extremism in our society bought about by General Zia has had an impact on the Pakistani team as well in terms of their outlook, social skills with the opposition teams

However I also believe your outlook is a little bit extra negative, things will get better for our cricket when international cricket returns on a more consistent basis.

 

[TeamPak95]

I agree with OP here. Faheem and Shadab playing won't automatically make Pakistan contenders here but at the very least they provide depth in terms of batting which, as seen thus far in this series, is proving to be needed.
[MENTION=147687]Shandarchowka[/MENTION] I agree with that lower order.

 

[aloo paratha]

Amir is the problem in this pace attack. He's just not a strike bowler, he's merely just a support bowler. Only one 5fer since his comeback, got 7 in that match in total. His 2nd best match figures after that are 5/72 against Ireland. Beyond me how he can be played over Hasan Ali.

Amir is fine when played in a 4 man attack, but he's not good enough to be played as a 3rd seamer.

 

[Junaids]

Yasir who is an extremely good bowler has failed and you expect a rookie like Shadab to do well in these days?
And Faheem, he's a poor man's Hardik Pandya at best.
That's the problem with some of you fans. You think the reason your team has been down is because of selection issues when infact problem goes much deeper.

You have totally misunderstood.

A specialist leggie like Yasir Shah is only useful outside Asia if:

1. You bat first and bowl last AND
2. You score enough runs to take the match into Day 5.

We have seen at Christchurch, Trent Bridge, Edgbaston, Melbourne, Sydney, Centurion and Cape Town that Yasir Shah has effectively played as a Specialist Batsman.

It would have been more use having Moeen Ali or Shadab Khan or even Usman Qadir, who could all at least score 40 more runs and set the opposition 200 to win instead of 160.

 

[MMHS]

First off, what exactly has Yasir done, giving away 4 an over?? - Shadab ball actually spins. Yasir has been in test team for 3/4 years, yet he cannot get into ODI or T20. Even in test and that too in UAE he is only useful in 4/5 day, rest he is as flat as here... Yasir ball does not spin, he is DRS bowler, Delusional Pakistanis have put him to Moon for no reason... I have said it many times, you play Shadab in UAE as second spinner, then we can see the real gulf between the two...

Shadab has scored three 50s in three test in UK early summer, that helped Pakistan won two test their, otherwise we would have lost both of them. Its not a fluke, we have not seen that fluke from Yasir in 33 tests, many of them in UAE, where nothing happens and ball comes in slow motion

Most UAE Pakistani batting products have zero back foot game, Faheem has decent hook and pull. Again he scored in UK...His bowling is better than what we saw today from all three seamers, who failed to register above 130, you can pick a guy from crowd they would bowl better than trundlers at 130, with that level of fitness why in the world we afford to play 6+4?? - 5+3+2 is only way we can have decent show, we still cannot win, but we would have lost atleast 2 test this season, if we have 5+3+2. With 5+3+2, we extend our batting to 8 and bowling to 5(4 seamers and leggy). Bowlers will be happy to bowl 16 overs a day and fresh (although fitness level of these guys is another issue)...

UAE products are killing us in general. All these test so called UAE stars(Hafeez,Azhar, Shafiq, Sarfraz, Yasir), cannot play anywhere or any other format, barrier to entry is too low their and you ruin your cricket down to the ground...UAE, combine with Green wickets at home has killed fast bowlers. This Non sense must stop

If Yasir isn't working, drop him for Hasan. Shadab isn't the solution - if you think Shadab deserves a chance for his age, then Saad Nasim should have got that 5 years back.

Green wicket, UAE wicket indeed is a problem, but bigger problem is FC games with 4 List A innings. Batting decline is agreed by almost everyone - what we are watching here is bowling decline. 43 years back Imran bowled 48, 8 balls overs in 3 days, at SCG on those concrete slab like landing, and frightened Aussies even on his last ball - now all 3 pacers are huffing after bowling 25, 6 ball overs in 2 days.

 

[Junaids]

Amir is the problem in this pace attack. He's just not a strike bowler, he's merely just a support bowler. Only one 5fer since his comeback, got 7 in that match in total. His 2nd best match figures after that are 5/72 against Ireland. Beyond me how he can be played over Hasan Ali.

Amir is fine when played in a 4 man attack, but he's not good enough to be played as a 3rd seamer.

Yes and No.

I agree that Mohammad Amir is going to average 30-32 with the ball and 20-25 with the bat and be a support bowler at Number 9, the third seamer out of four.

But you need such a bowler, and he has to be economical.

Hasan Ali can’t play that role because he is too short to keep the run rate down and too erratic a batsman.

Outside Asia you need four quicks as follows:

Lead 1: Asif style artist - Mohammad Abbas

Lead 2: Express bowler - Shaheen Shah

Support 3 - Economical bowler who can bowl long, tight spells and bat at an average of 20: Mohammad Amir or Ehsan Adil.

Support 4: Decent Fast-medium support bowler who can average 30 with the bat - Faheem Ashraf (in the Razzaq/Azhar Mahmood role)

 

[Shandarchowka]

Brother, I agree that a relapse is imperative, and Shady, our slim all-rounder, should be in the 11. His would be a low-key selection but with potentially savage consequences.

Don't know why Slim and Shady are being highlighted in your post. But yes, I agree with you.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Message to Take home for next 1 year atleast.


2 out of the 4 members of Roti group should be in Test playing eleven especially for Tests outside Asia.


Those two should be Faheem & Shadab. Whereas Hasan should be picked when he is 100 % fit, in rhythm and firing. Fakhar needs alot of technical work, at present he should not be playing Test Cricket.



Faheem played 1 Test and took 6 wickets @ 16 & a SR of 29.

First innings duck but he looked quite assured in 2nd innings and was developing a good partnership with Shadab before he lost control due to the extra bounce he is not used to.



Shadab played 1 Test and took 4 wickets @20 and at a healthy SR of 32. Yes he needs to further improve his control over line and length but despite coming from injury he looked better Test bowler than before.


Yasir shouldn't be in playing eleven in Tests outside Asia unless the wicket has something special for spinners which is quite rare. Remember a spinner who isn't a sharp turner of ball and is genuine number 11 now with absolutely zero fight with the bat cannot get special treatment.


Coming back to Shadab he also scored gutsy 51 runs in the Test. His 47 * was a fighting knock and deserved a fifty.



Shadab & Faheem should keep working hard because their competitors Irfan legspinning allrounder and Amad Butt fast bowling allrounder are going to push them. Good competition for places which is Good.

 

[Hasan123]

They have a lot to improve on but they deserve to start the next overseas test.

 

[Khan12]

Message to Take home for next 1 year atleast.


2 out of the 4 members of Roti group should be in Test playing eleven especially for Tests outside Asia.


Those two should be Faheem & Shadab. Whereas Hasan should be picked when he is 100 % fit, in rhythm and firing. Fakhar needs alot of technical work, at present he should not be playing Test Cricket.



Faheem played 1 Test and took 6 wickets @ 16 & a SR of 29.

First innings duck but he looked quite assured in 2nd innings and was developing a good partnership with Shadab before he lost control due to the extra bounce he is not used to.



Shadab played 1 Test and took 4 wickets @20 and at a healthy SR of 32. Yes he needs to further improve his control over line and length but despite coming from injury he looked better Test bowler than before.


Yasir shouldn't be in playing eleven in Tests outside Asia unless the wicket has something special for spinners which is quite rare. Remember a spinner who isn't a sharp turner of ball and is genuine number 11 now with absolutely zero fight with the bat cannot get special treatment.


Coming back to Shadab he also scored gutsy 51 runs in the Test. His 47 * was a fighting knock and deserved a fifty.



Shadab & Faheem should keep working hard because their competitors Irfan legspinning allrounder and Amad Butt fast bowling allrounder are going to push them. Good competition for places which is Good.

I think amad is a better prospect for test then Faheem. He's got much better batting technique and also a better bowler, though I don't mind Faheem in the squad.

 

[MMHS]

I think amad is a better prospect for test then Faheem. He's got much better batting technique and also a better bowler, though I don't mind Faheem in the squad.

Definitely. Also, like 6'1" or might be even taller and faster as well. I was expecting him for the ODI series after recent List A tournament, but I doubt if PCB's CS knows him - "Koun sa Amad"?

 

[Abdullah]

They have a lot to improve on but they deserve to start the next overseas test.

They always did deserve to start, they bwere key to win Vs Ireland and lord's. That has to be the template moving forward.
I hope both have the determiniton to work hard

 

[Hasan123]

They always did deserve to start, they bwere key to win Vs Ireland and lord's. That has to be the template moving forward.
I hope both have the determiniton to work hard

That's the test. Can they improve now ?

Would like to see Shadab bowling lots of overs in first class cricket and batting at 5 or 6. Same with Faheem . But have to admit his bowling has improved a lot in the last year.

 

[Khan12]

Definitely. Also, like 6'1" or might be even taller and faster as well. I was expecting him for the ODI series after recent List A tournament, but I doubt if PCB's CS knows him - "Koun sa Amad"?

I blame mickey too. Amad was selected in 2016 for the one off t20 against England, but if I remember correctly he said he wasn't ready. I have seen amad but and he's got better batting technique then some of our batsmen's and off course the captain. The reason why amad wasn't selected is because the point you made and plus we have dozens of quality all rounder already as you can see Razzaq a proven player making a comeback....

 

[Pakhs]

I said that before the tour they must play both! Shadab was injured but Faheem should have played. Mikey talking about his batting as if any other batsmen would have averaged 50.

 

[Abdullah]

I said that before the tour they must play both! Shadab was injured but Faheem should have played. Mikey talking about his batting as if any other batsmen would have averaged 50.

We need the two to play otherwise the balance isn't there.
Faheem could have played instead of Yasir though as a risky line up

 

[Pakhs]

We need the two to play otherwise the balance isn't there.
Faheem could have played instead of Yasir though as a risky line up

No You must play 4 fast bowlers!! was there anyone who was expecting these test matches to go 5th day? Even Indian batting line up couldnt take any match to 5th day.

 

[Dark_Horse]

Definitely. Also, like 6'1" or might be even taller and faster as well. I was expecting him for the ODI series after recent List A tournament, but I doubt if PCB's CS knows him - "Koun sa Amad"?

In limited overs amad butt could be highly valuable bowls around 140 plus have good yorkers with some hitting ability

 

[soso_killer]

Was really impressed by the amount of purchase Shadab got from the surface from day 1. Shah is rubbish outside Asia. I'd persist with this guy, can hold the willow as well thus strengthening a fragile batting lineup.

 

[MMHS]

In limited overs amad butt could be highly valuable bowls around 140 plus have good yorkers with some hitting ability

Kaun sa Butt? For youngsters, you need Ul Haq at the end of your name.....

 

[Abdullah]

No You must play 4 fast bowlers!! was there anyone who was expecting these test matches to go 5th day? Even Indian batting line up couldnt take any match to 5th day.

I c. So faheem as full time bowler and no Yasir or shadab. Yes that was nice option.

 

[Pakhs]

I c. So faheem as full time bowler and no Yasir or shadab. Yes that was nice option.

Yes it was a must. I dont know why they made such a blunder.

 

[sivanand82]

Shadab has decent batting technique.But not convinced of Ashraf batting.

 

[Pakhs]

Shadab has decent batting technique.But not convinced of Ashraf batting.

He is not going to do much worst than some batmen in the team and will provide desperately needed help to fast bowlers who are bowled to ground by Sarfraz,

 

[sivanand82]

But it all depends whether Ashraf is among top 3 or 4 test bowlers in pak.If he is not he should not be in the team