This should be the best-prepared Pakistan side in England EVER

[Junaids]

There is absolutely no excuse if the 2020 Pakistan team underperforms in England.

They have played 2 Test tours in England in the last 4 summers, and drawn both of them (2-2 in 2016 and 1-1 in 2018).

They also toured England in 2017, when they won the Champions Trophy, and in 2019, when they missed the semi-finals of the World Cup by Net Run Rate only.

So they have toured England for the last 4 summers in a row.

The 1992 Pakistan touring team to England was the last one to arrive early enough to prepare properly. Their tour began on 4 May 1992, and the First Test took place from 4 June 1992. In that month prior to the First Test they played:

3 x One Day matches against County opposition
3 x Three Day First Class matches against County opposition.
2 x ODI matches v England.

The 1987 Pakistan touring team to England was similarly prepared: their First Test began on 4 June 1987 but their first practice match in England was on 2 May 1987. In the 33 days leading up to the First Test they played:

5 x Three Day First Class matches against County opposition.
2 x One Day matches against County opposition.
3 x ODI matches v England.

BOTH THE 1987 and 1992 PAKISTAN TOURING TEAMS WON THE TEST SERIES, by 1-0 and 2-1 margins.

This 2020 Pakistan team should be even better prepared. They have taken 29 players on tour, so the standard of internal opposition is even higher than what the 1992 Pakistanis encountered. They are staying at the grounds and can practice whenever they want.

The ECB has given them an endless supply of Dukes Balls to prepare with. They can watch their opponents play 3 Tests against the West Indies and plan for every England player.

The 2018 touring Pakistan team in England drew the series 1-1. And they did so with a young team: in the victorious Test at Lords no fewer than 8 of the Pakistan starting eleven were under the age of 30.

While the only international class player to emerge for England since 2018 is Jofra Archer, who has compensated for the slowing down and decline of Anderson and Broad.

There are no excuses this time.

1. Pakistan has arrived early and with a huge squad.
2. Pakistan can play real cricket in the middle on as many of the days as they wish.
3. Misbah inherited a young squad.
4. The Pakistanis have toured England for the last 4 summers in a row.
5. England are a moderate team, in which only Root, Stokes and Archer are of proven Test class while Anderson and Broad used to be.
6. The specialist coaches - Younis Khan, Mushtaq Ahmed and Waqar Younis - have more top class experience in English conditions than their England counterparts have!

There are no excuses. This Pakistan team should be at the top of its game.

 

[Junaids]

You almost have to ask yourself what could go wrong.

The team has been blessed with lengthy preparation in England at the ECB's expense, something that the PCB would never have paid for itself in a normal year.

And instead of playing county reserve players, in effect Pakistan is playing against Pakistan A to prepare.

So what could go wrong?

1. Misbah may pick only 4 bowlers and too long a tail.
2. Mohammad Amir would walk into any team in the world in English conditions with a Dukes Ball - and he's not there.
3. The captain is long past his best and no longer worthy of a place in the starting 11.
4. Misbah seems blind to the failings of Yasir Shah outside Asia, and may persist with him again.
5. Waqar Younis is a notoriously lazy assessor of opposition batting techniques, and is likely to fail to prepare his bowlers for the specific weaknesses (and strengths) of batsmen like Burns, Sibley and Crawley whom he doesn't really know.

 

[Kroll]

It's also possibly going to be the worst Pak team ever in living memory to have toured England. We're going to have expired players such as Azhar leading the lines and bums such as Asad and Yasir. Abbas has looked out sorts for a while and school boy is part of the main pace attack.

There's even talk of Ifti getting a game. Regardless of preparations, you still need quality and seems like this tour is still all about Babar or bust.

 

[Savak]

Same expectations were placed on the Sarfaraz led Pakistan team in 2018, we still drew 1-1

 

[Junaids]

It's also possibly going to be the worst Pak team ever in living memory to have toured England. We're going to have expired players such as Azhar leading the lines and bums such as Asad and Yasir. Abbas has looked out sorts for a while and school boy is part of the main pace attack.

There's even talk of Ifti getting a game. Regardless of preparations, you still need quality and seems like this tour is still all about Babar or bust.

This is the problem with Misbah's ludicrous deference to seniority over ability and potential.

To me, it's absolutely obvious that from this 29 man squad the starting eleven should be:

1. Abid Ali
2. Shan Masood
3. Azhar Ali (I would actually pick Imam instead)
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Mohammad Abbas (possibly replaced by Haris Rauf if he fails again like in Australia and South Africa)
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Naseem Shah

To me that team is obvious. And Azhar, Shafiq and Faheem are the three dubious selections whom the other 8 players will have to carry.

But as soon as you start to bring in a no hoper like Iftikhar Ahmed or Yasir Shah, you could turn this from being a team with 3 liabilities to hide into a team in which half the team is out of its depth.

A lot, an awful lot, depends upon Iftikhar and Yasir Shah not being selected to fail again.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

It's also possibly going to be the worst Pak team ever in living memory to have toured England. We're going to have expired players such as Azhar leading the lines and bums such as Asad and Yasir. Abbas has looked out sorts for a while and school boy is part of the main pace attack.

There's even talk of Ifti getting a game. Regardless of preparations, you still need quality and seems like this tour is still all about Babar or bust.

2018 was worse, with Imam opening, Sarfraz at keeper, and mediocre Hasan Ali/Amir. This one is an improvement.

 

[Junaids]

2018 was worse, with Imam opening, Sarfraz at keeper, and mediocre Hasan Ali/Amir. This one is an improvement.

Amir is actually the world's best red ball bowler in English conditions.

 

[Kashur_Kalkharab]

Right... The only thing that should worry them is their senior players not performing.Youngesters can only be expected to be near their best.
There should be no excuse for failure of players playing such as mohammad abbas, Azhar ali, babar azam, Asad shafiq, shan masood, saheen afridi and yasir shah. Others can only be expected to play supporting role by contributing near to their best.
Pakistan needs to look ahead if players such as azhar, shafiq and yasir are not able to perform in these type of conditions(ie, sena).

 

[Kashur_Kalkharab]

Misbah's ability to consider a senior over ability and performance is so absurd.
But I don't think playing only 6 batsman is not gonna help,we can have shadab instead of yasir.
At least his straighter ones and googlies are gonna give us more chances instead of yasir trying to be a conventional by setting up batsman for such deliveries which at the end he never bowls.
I think yasir imagines a certain 6 delivery over as standard which he tries to replicate (which includes only the concept of flight, line,length and slight speed variation but not some major variations such as googly or flipper etc and which I think he has the ability to bowl).

 

[Junaids]

Right... The only thing that should worry them is their senior players not performing.Youngesters can only be expected to be near their best.
There should be no excuse for failure of players playing such as mohammad abbas, Azhar ali, babar azam, Asad shafiq, shan masood, saheen afridi and yasir shah. Others can only be expected to play supporting role by contributing near to their best.
Pakistan needs to look ahead if players such as azhar, shafiq and yasir are not able to perform in these type of conditions(ie, sena).

I largely agree, but I would word it slightly differently.

If you are aged 20-29, I think it is reasonable for the national team to invest in you and keep selecting you if some of your performances - not all - are disappointing.

At that age you are a long-term investment.

But if you are aged 30-32, you should be performing consistently. Two bad series and you should actually be replaced by somebody younger. In the Pakistan team that means that players like Shan Masood and Mohammad Abbas need to understand that if they have two bad series they will find themselves dropped and needing to fight their way back into contention - just like Sarfraz Ahmed did at the age of 32.

It's completely different if you are aged 33 or older. Now you are at an age associated with permanent, irreversible decline, and you are blocking a youngster from breaking through and developing. Don't forget, Babar Azam scored a century against Mitchell Johnson in 2014, yet it took him 2 more years to get into the team due to the elderly middle order (Misbah, Younis, Azhar and Shafiq) which meant that on his first tour of Australia he was too inexperienced to perform.

If you are 35 like Azhar Ali, or you are 34 like Yasir Shah and Asad Shafiq, then the equation has to be different. You get no recognition of "seniority", you are merely there for as long as you are performing, and the first time you fail in a series is when you are retired forever from the Test team.

Azhar and Yasir have each failed in several consecutive SENA series (Azhar in his last 4 series, Yasir in his last 5 SENA series). They should not even be in the squad, and selecting them is a disaster waiting to happen. Abbas has failed in his last two SENA series too.

 

[Mesozoic]

Amir is actually the world's best red ball bowler in English conditions.

Lol what ?

He averages 34 in England since his comeback in 2016.

You are seriously deluded if you think he's better than Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Stokes etc. And if you meant non-English bowlers , Hazlewood , Cummins , Ishant, Rabada and Gabriel have way better performances than him.

I'm really curious to see your reasoning here.

 

[Junaids]

Lol what ?

He averages 34 in England since his comeback in 2016.

You are seriously deluded if you think he's better than Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Stokes etc. And if you meant non-English bowlers , Hazlewood , Cummins , Ishant, Rabada and Gabriel have way better performances than him.

I'm really curious to see your reasoning here.

He had multiple catches dropped in 2016, which is not his fault.

He is a really good bowler in English conditions, the foreign bowlers you listed have styles not suited to English conditions while Anderson and Broad are in decline.

 

[Slog]

Lol what ?

He averages 34 in England since his comeback in 2016.

You are seriously deluded if you think he's better than Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Stokes etc. And if you meant non-English bowlers , Hazlewood , Cummins , Ishant, Rabada and Gabriel have way better performances than him.

I'm really curious to see your reasoning here.

If you look at fast bowlers post 2010 who have bowled in England and have taken atleast 10 wickets; Amir's average is 18th on the list.

If you look at active bowlers (post Philander retirement) he is 14th on the list

If you look at SR, Amir is well behind

Amir's only argument could be that he had lot of dropped catches in 2016 series but all the bowlers you have mentioned are ahead of Amir except perhaps Sharma and Rabada (rabada statistically behind.)

Junaids statement has little merit especially since it seems to include english bowlers too

 

[Slog]

He had multiple catches dropped in 2016, which is not his fault.

He is a really good bowler in English conditions, the foreign bowlers you listed have styles not suited to English conditions while Anderson and Broad are in decline.

Other bowlers have also had dropped catches.

In 2016 Amir had catches dropped but not in 2018. Abbas was more threatening

 

[BreadPakoda]

He had multiple catches dropped in 2016, which is not his fault.

He is a really good bowler in English conditions, the foreign bowlers you listed have styles not suited to English conditions while Anderson and Broad are in decline.

I think we need to multiply each wicket by 1.5 as dropped catches have affected his morale and with a higher morale he would have got 50% more wickets.

Amir’s wickets = actual wickets*morale factor + dropped catches converted to wickets + missed edges converted to caught behind

Curious to see what the numbers are.

 

[Mesozoic]

He had multiple catches dropped in 2016, which is not his fault.

He is a really good bowler in English conditions, the foreign bowlers you listed have styles not suited to English conditions while Anderson and Broad are in decline.

Silly excuse. Expected from you.

And I'm pretty sure Amir himself would trade his "style suited to English conditions" with actual wicket taking ability that the other bowlers have.

 

[Mesozoic]

I think we need to multiply each wicket by 1.5 as dropped catches have affected his morale and with a higher morale he would have got 50% more wickets.

Amir’s wickets = actual wickets*morale factor + dropped catches converted to wickets + missed edges converted to caught behind

Curious to see what the numbers are.

This is quite interesting to be honest.

 

[Kroll]

This is the problem with Misbah's ludicrous deference to seniority over ability and potential.

To me, it's absolutely obvious that from this 29 man squad the starting eleven should be:

1. Abid Ali
2. Shan Masood
3. Azhar Ali (I would actually pick Imam instead)
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan
8. Faheem Ashraf
9. Mohammad Abbas (possibly replaced by Haris Rauf if he fails again like in Australia and South Africa)
10. Shaheen Shah Afridi
11. Naseem Shah

To me that team is obvious. And Azhar, Shafiq and Faheem are the three dubious selections whom the other 8 players will have to carry.

But as soon as you start to bring in a no hoper like Iftikhar Ahmed or Yasir Shah, you could turn this from being a team with 3 liabilities to hide into a team in which half the team is out of its depth.

A lot, an awful lot, depends upon Iftikhar and Yasir Shah not being selected to fail again.

I reckon Misbah will play Yasir ahead of Shadab unless someone has some other inside knowledge. There's also a real possibility Iftikhar will get in ahead of Faheem.

Its mind boggling to think that a young bowling prospect like Sameen Gul with very good first class record and a good height for test cricket is overlooked for the likes of Musa, IK snr and Sohail Khan.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Agree with OP. Anything less than 3-0 thrashing with at least 2 innings victories would be an embarrassment for such a well prepared Pakistan side considering that only Azhar Ali is poor enough to get into the Windies side that just embarrassed England.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

I reckon Misbah will play Yasir ahead of Shadab unless someone has some other inside knowledge. There's also a real possibility Iftikhar will get in ahead of Faheem.

Its mind boggling to think that a young bowling prospect like Sameen Gul with very good first class record and a good height for test cricket is overlooked for the likes of Musa, IK snr and Sohail Khan.

Yes that is so infuriating to see. Sameen gul, ehsan adil , rahat ali, junaid khan were well above the ones selected ik snr, sk, wahab, musa khan.

 

[Junaids]

Agree with OP. Anything less than 3-0 thrashing with at least 2 innings victories would be an embarrassment for such a well prepared Pakistan side considering that only Azhar Ali is poor enough to get into the Windies side that just embarrassed England.

Mickey Arthur led a very young team to a 1-1 draw In 2018 against an England team which was stronger than this, and has declined significantly. The same England team beat India 4-1 a month later.

Misbah has chosen to break up Arthur’s young team by increasing the average age by 5 years in spite of having a 19 and a 20 year old in the team.

Misbah is on trial here. Anything less than a series draw is a clear step backwards from Mickey, in spite of having longer in England to prepare and a much bigger squad.

 

[Titan24]

Biggest weakness is lack of experience in bowling.

While there is no doubt Shaheen and Naseem have potential but there is not shortcut to experience and they both currently have just 12 matches between them.

If everyone remains fit and improving there is a chance that by the next cycle of SENA tours we will have a pretty solid team overall.

Now when thats aside, as I have mentioned before English batting lineup is pretty inexperienced from the top with Burns, Sibley, Crawley/ Denly so that is something which can definitely be exploited.

Pak batting on paper is pretty much on par with Eng, yes Eng will have the home advantage though and it will all come down to how Pak handles Anderson, Broad, Archer/ Woakes.

 

[Mamoon]

I do have an excuse - we are a dreadful team with only two quality players, a dreadful captain and a dreadful coaching staff.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

In theory Pakistan has experience in England because they've been touring 4 summers in a row.

But I'd be interested to know how many of the players who accompanied those teams are in this current squad? If it's a core of 5/6 then it gets interesting.

 

[shamaan]

I do have an excuse - we are a dreadful team with only two quality players, a dreadful captain and a dreadful coaching staff.

Dreadful coaching staff I guess that includes waqar,younis and mushy

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Let me write down here. Pakistan will lose only because of team selection.

First test, I see Imran Khan and Iftikhar/Fawad Alam making a way in. Even Yasir in place of Shadab.

Misbah rewards loyalty.

 

[IMMY69]

I think we’ll do just fine...

Hoping for a test series victory

 

[coy0607]

1) In England for ~6 weeks before the first Intl Match is played (for LOI players, they'll have 10+ weeks before they play their first game)

2) Extremely experienced team

3) Most players have prior experience playing in English conditions

4) Extended squad, so lots of additional experience, advice, brain power, talent on hand

5) The coaching staff have perhaps the most experience in England that any previous coaching staff Pakistan have every travelled with. And most of their experience is fairly recent

 

[Firebat]

This should be a fantastic preparation for Pakistan. Being in the country for so long, and preparing for England so long while they are still focusing on Windies for a couple more weeks. Having said that, we'll still be bowled out for 150 on the first afternoon.

 

[Afhan Ali]

I do have an excuse - we are a dreadful team with only two quality players, a dreadful captain and a dreadful coaching staff.

Your are on point as always.

 

[Firebat]

Let's not forget 1 year ago, when we had a 5 match ODI series in England in the lead up to the WC, and everyone was hyping us up about how amazing preparation this was, playing 5 matches against the favourites in the WC conditions. What happened in the very first innings we batted? Windies bowl us out for 105, and our WC was already over.

 

[Junaids]

I do have an excuse - we are a dreadful team with only two quality players, a dreadful captain and a dreadful coaching staff.

Are you sure?

The coaching staff, selector and captain, I agree.

But the players?

Shan Masood v Rory Burns? Very similar age, very similar records!

Abid Ali v Dom Sibley? I'd probably prefer Abid.

Azhar Ali v Zak Crawley? A Has-Been vesus a kid with a First Class average of 31.22.

Babar Azam v Joe Root? I'd take Babar.

Asad Shafiq v Ben Stokes? No difference as a Test batsman TBH.

Mohammad Rizwan v Jos Buttler? I'd take Rizwan by a mile in Tests.

Shadab Khan v Dom Bess? I'd take Shadab every time.

Faheem Ashraf v Chris Woakes? Dead heat.

Naseem Shah v Mark Wood? Equal currently, but Naseem has a far higher ceiling.

Shaheen Shah Afridi v Jofra Archer? Equal.

Mohammad Abbas v Jimmy Anderson? No real preference to be honest.

I see no reason for Pakistan to be intimidated.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Asad Shafiq vs Ben Stokes, no difference as test batsmen?

 

[MMHS]

Asad Shafiq vs Ben Stokes, no difference as test batsmen?

Asad actually better, around 10%. He averages 39.25, Stokes 36.54. Also against Stoke’s 6, Asad has 12 hundreds. With ball as well Asad has much potential as an off-spinner (but Misbah is too dumb to explore that).

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Asad actually better, around 10%. He averages 39.25, Stokes 36.54. Also against Stoke’s 6, Asad has 12 hundreds. With ball as well Asad has much potential as an off-spinner (but Misbah is too dumb to explore that).

Asad has been bowling pretty good off spin recently, last domestic season he took some wickets here and there. But of course Misbah isn't exploring his potential as a batting all rounder.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] he's taken 3 wickets @47 , 53 overs bowled. 2.69 economy - all rounder potential?

 

[MMHS]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] he's taken 3 wickets @47 , 53 overs bowled. 2.69 economy - all rounder potential?

Why not - if Faheem Ashraf is dead heat with Woakes, particularly in UK Tests, any thing is possible... on papers.

 

[ammar_merry]

Let's not forget 1 year ago, when we had a 5 match ODI series in England in the lead up to the WC, and everyone was hyping us up about how amazing preparation this was, playing 5 matches against the favourites in the WC conditions. What happened in the very first innings we batted? Windies bowl us out for 105, and our WC was already over.

Why dont you look at positives.I think they performed better than expected in WC with win against england and newzealand.With a bit of luck they would have played semis.

 

[Junaids]

Why not - if Faheem Ashraf is dead heat with Woakes, particularly in UK Tests, any thing is possible... on papers.

Faheem is 25 years old, and has a:
Test batting average of 23
Test bowling average of 26.

Woakes is 30 years old and has a:
Test batting average of 27
Test bowling average of 31.

In what way is Faheem inferior?

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Asad actually better, around 10%. He averages 39.25, Stokes 36.54. Also against Stoke’s 6, Asad has 12 hundreds. With ball as well Asad has much potential as an off-spinner (but Misbah is too dumb to explore that).

You’re talking about overall record of a player in decline vs Ben Stokes at his peak. I would take Stokes over Shafiq any day, especially with his ability to produce clutch innings like Ashes 3rd test last year.

I’m speaking purely as a batsman. (Stokes also provides a 5th bowling option).

England’s side is as a result far more balanced and resilient to collapses — if Pak batting collapses to 50-4 on first day, I would rather have Stokes out in the middle than Shafiq.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

You’re talking about overall record of a player in decline vs Ben Stokes at his peak. I would take Stokes over Shafiq any day, especially with his ability to produce clutch innings like Ashes 3rd test last year.

I’m speaking purely as a batsman. (Stokes also provides a 5th bowling option).

England’s side is as a result far more balanced and resilient to collapses — if Pak batting collapses to 50-4 on first day, I would rather have Stokes out in the middle than Shafiq.

Bro he was joking )

 

[Junaids]

You’re talking about overall record of a player in decline vs Ben Stokes at his peak. I would take Stokes over Shafiq any day, especially with his ability to produce clutch innings like Ashes 3rd test last year.

I’m speaking purely as a batsman. (Stokes also provides a 5th bowling option).

England’s side is as a result far more balanced and resilient to collapses — if Pak batting collapses to 50-4 on first day, I would rather have Stokes out in the middle than Shafiq.

I’m not so sure.

Azhar Ali’s performances are in freefall since MisYou retired, but Shafiq averages 37 since their retirement compared with 40 before. He hasn’t stepped up, but he hasn’t significantly deteriorated.

Stokes has always been capable of incredible knocks, but he has never been a consistent Test batsman. I genuinely have no idea whether Shafiq or Stokes will score more runs next month.

 

[Mesozoic]

Are you sure?

The coaching staff, selector and captain, I agree.

But the players?

Shan Masood v Rory Burns? Very similar age, very similar records!

Abid Ali v Dom Sibley? I'd probably prefer Abid.

Azhar Ali v Zak Crawley? A Has-Been vesus a kid with a First Class average of 31.22.

Babar Azam v Joe Root? I'd take Babar.

Asad Shafiq v Ben Stokes? No difference as a Test batsman TBH.

Mohammad Rizwan v Jos Buttler? I'd take Rizwan by a mile in Tests.

Shadab Khan v Dom Bess? I'd take Shadab every time.

Faheem Ashraf v Chris Woakes? Dead heat.

Naseem Shah v Mark Wood? Equal currently, but Naseem has a far higher ceiling.

Shaheen Shah Afridi v Jofra Archer? Equal.

Mohammad Abbas v Jimmy Anderson? No real preference to be honest.

I see no reason for Pakistan to be intimidated.

Literally no-one will pick Babar, Shafiq, Rizwan and Abbas over Root, Stokes, Butler and Anderson for Tests in England. As a matter of fact, Tests anywhere.

Dead heat between Faheem and Woakes ?

Will Faheem and Shadab even get a place in the 11 ? Stop deluding yourselves.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Bro he was joking )

Whether [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] was or not, I’m pretty sure [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] isn’t

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I’m not so sure.

Azhar Ali’s performances are in freefall since MisYou retired, but Shafiq averages 37 since their retirement compared with 40 before. He hasn’t stepped up, but he hasn’t significantly deteriorated.

Stokes has always been capable of incredible knocks, but he has never been a consistent Test batsman. I genuinely have no idea whether Shafiq or Stokes will score more runs next month.

Shafiq has made extremely soft runs whereas Stokes steps up when it matters. Stokes has also been relatively more consistent in The last year whereas Shafiq has showed the initial signs of an age related slump (i.e. the slump will really start to be obvious round about now).

 

[MMHS]

Faheem is 25 years old, and has a:
Test batting average of 23
Test bowling average of 26.

Woakes is 30 years old and has a:
Test batting average of 27
Test bowling average of 31.

In what way is Faheem inferior?

Really? You know, there was a guy, Andy Ganteaume - he averages 112 in Test, better than Sir Don......

 

[Last Monetarist]

Really? You know, there was a guy, Andy Ganteaume - he averages 112 in Test, better than Sir Don......

Stuart Law was so good, he didn't even have a test batting average.

Faheem considered as good as Woakes isn't even that controversial though, when you have Asad Shafiq as better than or equal to Ben Stokes.

It's a kind of debating technique that is much in vogue in these heady days of populism and bombast, throw enough outrageous statements about that your adversary is bamboozled into accepting the least outrageous point as being true or at least worth some little merit.

 

[Mamoon]

Are you sure?

The coaching staff, selector and captain, I agree.

But the players?

Shan Masood v Rory Burns? Very similar age, very similar records!

Abid Ali v Dom Sibley? I'd probably prefer Abid.

Azhar Ali v Zak Crawley? A Has-Been vesus a kid with a First Class average of 31.22.

Babar Azam v Joe Root? I'd take Babar.

Asad Shafiq v Ben Stokes? No difference as a Test batsman TBH.

Mohammad Rizwan v Jos Buttler? I'd take Rizwan by a mile in Tests.

Shadab Khan v Dom Bess? I'd take Shadab every time.

Faheem Ashraf v Chris Woakes? Dead heat.

Naseem Shah v Mark Wood? Equal currently, but Naseem has a far higher ceiling.

Shaheen Shah Afridi v Jofra Archer? Equal.

Mohammad Abbas v Jimmy Anderson? No real preference to be honest.

I see no reason for Pakistan to be intimidated.

We will talk about this on August 25. For now, I will just scratch by head and rub my eyes.

 

[IMMY69]

This has to be the worst prepared side in history.

A child will be able to say why so not gonna spoon feed anyone

 

[TeymurBlake]

God this squad is awful and poor managed and prepared. Oldies with some youngsters. It will be a miracle if Pakistan win a test in this series.

 

[Kaddy]

If everyone remains fit and improving there is a chance that by the next cycle of SENA tours we will have a pretty solid team overall.

How?

This FTP is till 2022/23 and after England tour, Pakistan has only one ‘SENA’ tour left which is against New Zealand in coming December/January after that Pakistan is not playing any test in SENA.

New FTP will start from 2023/24 and our next cycle of SENA tours will start after that. So, most probably Pakistan’s next England tour is at least 4 years away.

By that time, age of current playing xi members will be like, Azhar Ali 39 years, Asad Shafiq 38 years, Yasir Shah 38, Abid Ali 36, Shan Masood 34, Abbas 34, Fawad Alam 38 and Sarfraz Ahmed 37.

Even most of the other members of squad, who I think will not get any test match in this series, would be too old i.e. Imran khan Sr., Sohail Khan, Wahab, Kashif Bhatti, Imad Wasim, Fakhar & Ifti chachu.

As you can see, all these players would be too old and gone by then due to their age related decline in performance (although I am not 100% sure as Hafeez/Malik are still playing at the age of 40)

From the current playing xi, only Babar, Rizwan, Naseem, Shaheen and Shadab are expected to play by then (I doubt Haider, Husnain and Rohail will get any test match in this series. So, next time they would be playing their first tour effectively).

During the next cycle of SENA tours, more than half of the squad would be touring for the first time.

So, be ready for the excuses like “We are in transition phase”.

 

[Markhor]

We won't win anything with Azhar is in charge.

 

[IMMY69]

You could send Imran's team from 80's and it would still struggle...

Arriving 6-7 weeks early, in isolation except for your teammates and the management team.
No physical contact and hardly any face to face contact with anyone outside of the squad....

no loved ones, no friends, no restaurants, no outside visits.. Sitting inside in the rain and then training day in and day out...

Finally the first test arrives and only 11 of the large squad participate. Those that get to play do so in an empty stadium...

Meanwhile the opposition would already have played three test matches and would be match sharp and playing in home conditions.

 

[Titan24]

How?

This FTP is till 2022/23 and after England tour, Pakistan has only one ‘SENA’ tour left which is against New Zealand in coming December/January after that Pakistan is not playing any test in SENA.

New FTP will start from 2023/24 and our next cycle of SENA tours will start after that. So, most probably Pakistan’s next England tour is at least 4 years away.

By that time, age of current playing xi members will be like, Azhar Ali 39 years, Asad Shafiq 38 years, Yasir Shah 38, Abid Ali 36, Shan Masood 34, Abbas 34, Fawad Alam 38 and Sarfraz Ahmed 37.

Even most of the other members of squad, who I think will not get any test match in this series, would be too old i.e. Imran khan Sr., Sohail Khan, Wahab, Kashif Bhatti, Imad Wasim, Fakhar & Ifti chachu.

As you can see, all these players would be too old and gone by then due to their age related decline in performance (although I am not 100% sure as Hafeez/Malik are still playing at the age of 40)

From the current playing xi, only Babar, Rizwan, Naseem, Shaheen and Shadab are expected to play by then (I doubt Haider, Husnain and Rohail will get any test match in this series. So, next time they would be playing their first tour effectively).

During the next cycle of SENA tours, more than half of the squad would be touring for the first time.

So, be ready for the excuses like “We are in transition phase”.

You need 3-4 world class players to become a solid team. The players you have said that will get old by then are decent but not world class players. When they will retire they will be replaced by other supporting players who are important but cant make a team into a top 3 on their own, its those few world class players that make the difference. You can see that in every team, take out the best 3 players and team will only look like a skeleton of its former self.

Babar who is 25 is already in that world class zone and will consolidate his spot further in next 3 years. While Shaheen who is 20 who is probably the best bowling talent we have produced in the last decade at the moment just has 7 tests under his belt and in inexperienced should have close to 30 or more tests by the next cycle if he remains fit. Naseem who is 18-19 has the potential to go into that league as well and he will also have 20-25 tests by the next cycle. Further I believe Haider who is 19-20 is the most complete batsmen we have produced after Babar so if he can work hard and improve then we will have another solid batsmen developed to w reasonable level by then.

So this is what I am basing my statement on. In the last decade other than maybe 2010 (a pretty dark ending) we never had 2-4 young world class players which we were looking forward to develop. If there were any that I am missing kindly mention them. Thats why I said if everyone remains fit we will have a solid team by next cycle.

Transitioning phase of Babar Azam, Shaheen, Naseem, Haider is different then transitioning phase of Wahab, Rahat, Sohail Khan, Asad Shafiq etc as after the transition one set is probably gonna produce atleast 2-3 WC players while other set wasnt gonna produce anything to start with. If you think that second set is better then there is nothing much left in the conversation and if you think the first set is better than anything in the last decade then you have got your answer.

 

[TamiL_GarvaM!]

There is absolutely no excuse if the 2020 Pakistan team underperforms in England.

They have played 2 Test tours in England in the last 4 summers, and drawn both of them (2-2 in 2016 and 1-1 in 2018).

They also toured England in 2017, when they won the Champions Trophy, and in 2019, when they missed the semi-finals of the World Cup by Net Run Rate only.

So they have toured England for the last 4 summers in a row.

The 1992 Pakistan touring team to England was the last one to arrive early enough to prepare properly. Their tour began on 4 May 1992, and the First Test took place from 4 June 1992. In that month prior to the First Test they played:

3 x One Day matches against County opposition
3 x Three Day First Class matches against County opposition.
2 x ODI matches v England.

The 1987 Pakistan touring team to England was similarly prepared: their First Test began on 4 June 1987 but their first practice match in England was on 2 May 1987. In the 33 days leading up to the First Test they played:

5 x Three Day First Class matches against County opposition.
2 x One Day matches against County opposition.
3 x ODI matches v England.

BOTH THE 1987 and 1992 PAKISTAN TOURING TEAMS WON THE TEST SERIES, by 1-0 and 2-1 margins.

This 2020 Pakistan team should be even better prepared. They have taken 29 players on tour, so the standard of internal opposition is even higher than what the 1992 Pakistanis encountered. They are staying at the grounds and can practice whenever they want.

The ECB has given them an endless supply of Dukes Balls to prepare with. They can watch their opponents play 3 Tests against the West Indies and plan for every England player.

The 2018 touring Pakistan team in England drew the series 1-1. And they did so with a young team: in the victorious Test at Lords no fewer than 8 of the Pakistan starting eleven were under the age of 30.

While the only international class player to emerge for England since 2018 is Jofra Archer, who has compensated for the slowing down and decline of Anderson and Broad.

There are no excuses this time.

1. Pakistan has arrived early and with a huge squad.
2. Pakistan can play real cricket in the middle on as many of the days as they wish.
3. Misbah inherited a young squad.
4. The Pakistanis have toured England for the last 4 summers in a row.
5. England are a moderate team, in which only Root, Stokes and Archer are of proven Test class while Anderson and Broad used to be.
6. The specialist coaches - Younis Khan, Mushtaq Ahmed and Waqar Younis - have more top class experience in English conditions than their England counterparts have!

There are no excuses. This Pakistan team should be at the top of its game.

If this was India, the imaginative conspiracy peddlers would have a field day, last years WC - there were posters commenting on late start for india's matches as pandering to the BCCI etc, the same with india's tour in 2018 which even though india lost, the cricket was of a very high quality....the point am making is there is always trolling for the timing of all indian tours to the UK...nver seen this for saf,nz, sl etc...
any ways - This time kudos to pcb to send your guys early with a massive 29 squad, pullling out all the stops....good step...
will be super exciting watching your young quicks....i still feel you guys are too negative with your bowling stocks -u have the nucleus of a real fab attack for the future...

 

[castortroy]

We still have washed up players like Yasir Shah in the squad.

 

[Kaddy]

You need 3-4 world class players to become a solid team. The players you have said that will get old by then are decent but not world class players. When they will retire they will be replaced by other supporting players who are important but cant make a team into a top 3 on their own, its those few world class players that make the difference. You can see that in every team, take out the best 3 players and team will only look like a skeleton of its former self.

Babar who is 25 is already in that world class zone and will consolidate his spot further in next 3 years. While Shaheen who is 20 who is probably the best bowling talent we have produced in the last decade at the moment just has 7 tests under his belt and in inexperienced should have close to 30 or more tests by the next cycle if he remains fit. Naseem who is 18-19 has the potential to go into that league as well and he will also have 20-25 tests by the next cycle. Further I believe Haider who is 19-20 is the most complete batsmen we have produced after Babar so if he can work hard and improve then we will have another solid batsmen developed to w reasonable level by then.

So this is what I am basing my statement on. In the last decade other than maybe 2010 (a pretty dark ending) we never had 2-4 young world class players which we were looking forward to develop. If there were any that I am missing kindly mention them. Thats why I said if everyone remains fit we will have a solid team by next cycle.

Transitioning phase of Babar Azam, Shaheen, Naseem, Haider is different then transitioning phase of Wahab, Rahat, Sohail Khan, Asad Shafiq etc as after the transition one set is probably gonna produce atleast 2-3 WC players while other set wasnt gonna produce anything to start with. If you think that second set is better then there is nothing much left in the conversation and if you think the first set is better than anything in the last decade then you have got your answer.

I think you missed my point. You are right that a team needs 3 to 4 world class players but if you study all the great teams of recent past, which stayed on top 2 rankings for longer periods. You will notice that they had 3 to 4 world class players plus at least 4 to 5 good players who supported those world class player. What you are telling is a recipe of an inconsistent team which will be heavily reliant on few individual.

I agree that Babar, Shanheen /Naseem have higher ceiling than those players you mentioned but still even if all three of them become world class (Babar is almost there already) Pakistan need other 4 to 5 very good players to support them.

Now my point is very simple. We have too many 32+ batsmen in our squad and all of them would retire or decline by the time our next cycle of SENA tours starts and we will have at least 4 to 5 rookies in our team with the experience of less than 20 test. Do you genuinely believe that only with Babar, Shaheen and Naseem, Rizwan and 4 to 5 rookies we can trouble Australia or South Africa on their home grounds then best of luck but to me chances are very low but honestly speaking I will be very happy if it happens.

Regarding Haider Ali, the guy has potential and ingredients to be a very good batsman but till now he hasn’t played a single international match apart from U19. So, it is too early to predict whether he will be a better test batsman than Asad Shafiq or not. Let him play few tests then we will see where he stands. Test cricket is not easy, even Babar Azam took 2 to 3 years to develop as a good test batsman.

 

[IMMY69]

So England players feeling fatigued

 

[Titan24]

I think you missed my point. You are right that a team needs 3 to 4 world class players but if you study all the great teams of recent past, which stayed on top 2 rankings for longer periods. You will notice that they had 3 to 4 world class players plus at least 4 to 5 good players who supported those world class player. What you are telling is a recipe of an inconsistent team which will be heavily reliant on few individual.

I agree that Babar, Shanheen /Naseem have higher ceiling than those players you mentioned but still even if all three of them become world class (Babar is almost there already) Pakistan need other 4 to 5 very good players to support them.

Now my point is very simple. We have too many 32+ batsmen in our squad and all of them would retire or decline by the time our next cycle of SENA tours starts and we will have at least 4 to 5 rookies in our team with the experience of less than 20 test. Do you genuinely believe that only with Babar, Shaheen and Naseem, Rizwan and 4 to 5 rookies we can trouble Australia or South Africa on their home grounds then best of luck but to me chances are very low but honestly speaking I will be very happy if it happens.

Regarding Haider Ali, the guy has potential and ingredients to be a very good batsman but till now he hasnÂ’t played a single international match apart from U19. So, it is too early to predict whether he will be a better test batsman than Asad Shafiq or not. Let him play few tests then we will see where he stands. Test cricket is not easy, even Babar Azam took 2 to 3 years to develop as a good test batsman.

As you have mentioned yourself as well that Babar, Naseem and Shaheen have higher ceilings then almost anyone we have produced in the last decade so them getting experience by the next cycle would be the main difference. Something we didnt have in the last decade.

I agree that a team needs good players to support them. So my question is do you think we have had good players in the team in last decade? If yes then there is no reason to assume that we wont in this cycle. If the answer is no them we never really had them before as well but now we will have 2-3 world class players. Having 2-3 world class players in a same ordinary team makes it a better one than 1 world class player in the same ordinary team.

A team with Babar, Shaheen, Naseem or Haider/someone else (Atleast 2 to 3 of them becoming top players) + supporting players (Assuming as good or bad as before) is obviously > A team full of supporting players and Younis Khan being the only world class player that too in one format

I am not saying Pak will become world beater, I am just saying it will have enough potential to be in the top 3-4 across the formats. Fulfilling the potential is something nobody can predict.

Regarding rookie players, yes we will have to develop some but to be honest we almost always have had a few rookie players in the last decade in every SENA tour you look at. We can do micro analysis of every single SENA tour if you want and we will find 3-4 rookie players in almost every squad. The difference I think has been lack of top players who can win you matches in those conditions or atleast create an impact. Supporting players have been there and those were not the issue in my opinion.

When none of your top player averages close to 50 or 50+ (Except Younis in the last decade) and literally not a single bowler averages close to 25 or less (Except Moh Abbas) then whatever we had in terms of supporting players we werent gonna win many things in SENA.

 

[shamaan]

I think you missed my point. You are right that a team needs 3 to 4 world class players but if you study all the great teams of recent past, which stayed on top 2 rankings for longer periods. You will notice that they had 3 to 4 world class players plus at least 4 to 5 good players who supported those world class player. What you are telling is a recipe of an inconsistent team which will be heavily reliant on few individual.

I agree that Babar, Shanheen /Naseem have higher ceiling than those players you mentioned but still even if all three of them become world class (Babar is almost there already) Pakistan need other 4 to 5 very good players to support them.

Now my point is very simple. We have too many 32+ batsmen in our squad and all of them would retire or decline by the time our next cycle of SENA tours starts and we will have at least 4 to 5 rookies in our team with the experience of less than 20 test. Do you genuinely believe that only with Babar, Shaheen and Naseem, Rizwan and 4 to 5 rookies we can trouble Australia or South Africa on their home grounds then best of luck but to me chances are very low but honestly speaking I will be very happy if it happens.

Regarding Haider Ali, the guy has potential and ingredients to be a very good batsman but till now he hasnÂ’t played a single international match apart from U19. So, it is too early to predict whether he will be a better test batsman than Asad Shafiq or not. Let him play few tests then we will see where he stands. Test cricket is not easy, even Babar Azam took 2 to 3 years to develop as a good test batsman.

I fink haider will win games singlehandedly if he can keep his head in control he can defo be 40 pluss average player in tests

 

[shamaan]

So England players feeling fatigued

You are joking ain't u