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Tim Paine has mandate to lead but Steve Smith should captain Australia again : Mark Taylor

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Tim Paine deserves an enormous amount of credit for how Australia fought back from the shock and disappointment of Headlingley to clinch the Ashes. There was plenty of criticism of him but he’s answered the knockers magnificently and led the side brilliantly in the fourth Test.

Not only did he get his players thinking about the next game, rather than what could have been, but he marshalled his bowlers expertly when the pressure was on. Moves such as bringing on Marnus Labuschagne on to bowl towards the end of the fifth day were the kind of tactical decisions that won Australia the match.

That’s what you’ve got to try to do as a captain – manufacture a wicket every now and again – and Paine has fittingly received a lot of praise for how Australia got over the line on a pretty flat pitch at Old Trafford.

In the process he has done the selectors a real favour. If there was any uncertainty about him continuing to the home summer you’d like to think it has been erased. The last thing the panel would want to do is have to change their leader and wicketkeeper in the next six months.

The subject of the Australian captaincy has lingered in the background with Steve Smith suspended from all leadership positions until next March, but it would be great if Paine can go on until at least then, and potentially another year or more beyond that point, too.

I believe Smith will captain Australia again. I was on the Cricket Australia board that determined the penalties for Smith, David Warner and Cameron Bancroft over the events of Cape Town and have no doubt he will be a better leader next time around because of the very harsh lessons he learnt.

I’ve seen some of the commentary since the fourth Test, including the opinion of Steve Harmison that Smith can’t be forgiven and will always be remembered for what happened in South Africa. It seems a lot of people passing judgment have forgotten about others who have transgressed with ball tampering in the past or crossed the line various times in the game.

Smith did the wrong thing but the time he served out of the game as player, and the longer suspension on him being a captain, is more than enough punishment.

To me it’s not a matter of whether he becomes captain again on April 1. It doesn’t have to happen that quickly but I’d like to think when Paine is finished as Test captain – whether that’s in six months’ time or two or three years – he would be a candidate to lead the side again.

It’s a tough gig and with the scrutiny we put on our leaders now you see a lot of people shy away from such roles because there is so much hard work involved. But I think Smith will probably be keen to do it and I don’t believe the additional responsibility of captaincy would affect him dominating with the bat, as he has done in this series. It never seemed to worry him in the past.

As for Warner, I would be inclined to leave him out of the fifth Test side. That doesn’t mean putting a line through him for good – his record of 21 Test hundreds and an average of more than 45 suggests he’s still got a lot to give. But if you look at Warner’s record in England, averaging less than 28, and with Stuart Broad having his number in this series, there is an opportunity to go a different way at The Oval.

I agree with what Smith has been saying, that the England bowlers have been performing better against left-handers than right-handers, so I think you could bring back Cameron Bancroft to open, with Usman Khawaja, in a brand new partnership.

It would be almost a free selection for the panel because no one who’s played in the top order aside from Smith and Marnus Labuschagne has done anything to demand inclusion. Another option for selectors would be to play Warner in the middle order and perhaps leave out Travis Head, but he’s a leader in the side so I think they would be reluctant to do that.

I remember when I had my bad run out of outs in 1997, it was said that I was batting too long, scratching around for 40 balls and not making too many runs. With Warner you almost don’t know what sort of form he’s in because he’s getting out so quickly, not lasting many balls at all. But Australia have subsequently been left two-for-not-many time and again.

I’d like to see Australia play the same bowlers from the last Test; it’d be great if Pat Cummins could play all five matches, but my concern has been for Nathan Lyon, who split his finger in the first innings at Old Trafford. I’m not sure Australia want to be playing him if he can’t hold onto the ball.

Despite Australia having retained the Ashes, it’s certainly not a dead rubber. It will be up to Paine to get his team up for the new challenge of winning the series. If I was in that side I would feel Australia deserves to end up on top. They could easily be up 3-0 so a drawn series wouldn’t be the right result.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricke...-captain-australia-again-20190911-p52qda.html
 
Total nonsense from Tubby Taylor.

He was part of the Cricket Australia Board which set the Terms of Reference after Cape Town in such a way as to avoid even investigating whether sandpaper use had begun earlier.

(Read my posts in the PakPassion threads for the Durban 2018 and Wellington 2016 Tests to see what I observed at the time.)

Smith has never come clean. He has never admitted how long the industrial level cheating took place for.

He is the equivalent of Lance Armstrong or Ben Johnson. And he shouldn’t be allowed to play, let alone lead.

He makes Salman Butt look like Mother Theresa. At least Butt’s cheating didn’t fraudulently make the opposition lose or end careers.
 
Total nonsense from Tubby Taylor.

He was part of the Cricket Australia Board which set the Terms of Reference after Cape Town in such a way as to avoid even investigating whether sandpaper use had begun earlier.

(Read my posts in the PakPassion threads for the Durban 2018 and Wellington 2016 Tests to see what I observed at the time.)

Smith has never come clean. He has never admitted how long the industrial level cheating took place for.

He is the equivalent of Lance Armstrong or Ben Johnson. And he shouldn’t be allowed to play, let alone lead.

He makes Salman Butt look like Mother Theresa. At least Butt’s cheating didn’t fraudulently make the opposition lose or end careers.

No way is it worse than Salman Butt who cheated a nation for personal monetary profit. Who knows how long he had been doing THAT. I would be much more likely to forgive someone if they tampered with the ball than if they fixed a game. That should be fairly obvious. He also played a role in ruining the careers of two of Pakistan’s best fast bowlers (not that they were not also complicit).

Many players have tampered with the ball - Atherton, Imran Khan, Faff Du Plessis, Waqar Younis to name a few prominent ones.
 
No way is it worse than Salman Butt who cheated a nation for personal monetary profit. Who knows how long he had been doing THAT. I would be much more likely to forgive someone if they tampered with the ball than if they fixed a game. That should be fairly obvious. He also played a role in ruining the careers of two of Pakistan’s best fast bowlers (not that they were not also complicit).

Many players have tampered with the ball - Atherton, Imran Khan, Faff Du Plessis, Waqar Younis to name a few prominent ones.
Snith’s Cheating ended batsmen’s careers and changed results.

And it was a completely different scale of ball tampering. It was precisely comparable to an athlete abusing anabolic steroids.

The spot fixers were fools who were corrupt, but they basically perpetrated a victimless crime. They are equivalent to the person who takes stationery home from work, or who leaves work half an hour early every day.
 
Snith’s Cheating ended batsmen’s careers and changed results.

And it was a completely different scale of ball tampering. It was precisely comparable to an athlete abusing anabolic steroids.

The spot fixers were fools who were corrupt, but they basically perpetrated a victimless crime. They are equivalent to the person who takes stationery home from work, or who leaves work half an hour early every day.
If ball tampering is such a big crime then all great bowlers of the past are cheats.
Then why do u hail imran,marshall, lillee, hadlee? all of them were cheaters
 
Snith’s Cheating ended batsmen’s careers and changed results.

And it was a completely different scale of ball tampering. It was precisely comparable to an athlete abusing anabolic steroids.

The spot fixers were fools who were corrupt, but they basically perpetrated a victimless crime. They are equivalent to the person who takes stationery home from work, or who leaves work half an hour early every day.

There is no proof he was a serial ball tamperer. The umpire also deemed the ball to be in perfect condition to bowl with even after being sanded with sand paper, so obviously they weren't very expericed with it as it had no effect on the ball. If Smith was an experienced ball tamperer then he would used something else or lower grit sand paper.
 
There is no proof he was a serial ball tamperer. The umpire also deemed the ball to be in perfect condition to bowl with even after being sanded with sand paper, so obviously they weren't very expericed with it as it had no effect on the ball. If Smith was an experienced ball tamperer then he would used something else or lower grit sand paper.
Why don’t you look up Mitchell Starc’s Test bowling average before and after the period Mid-2016 to Easter 2018?

And then compare it with his record during those 23 months. And ask yourself “why did his average dip 13 runs per wicket lower than before and after?”

There is a huge difference between what the others listed did to the ball and what Australia did.

One is like a guy who has an energy drink before a race. And the other is like a guy who injects himself with anabolic steroids every day, or has regular transfusions of oxygenated blood.
 
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Why don’t you look up Mitchell Starc’s Test bowling average before and after the period Mid-2016 to Easter 2018?

And then compare it with his record during those 23 months. And ask yourself “why did his average dip 13 runs per wicket lower than before and after?”

There is a huge difference between what the others listed did to the ball and what Australia did.

One is like a guy who has an energy drink before a race. And the other is like a guy who injects himself with anabolic steroids every day, or has regular transfusions of oxygenated blood.

What about Imran Khan he admitted he was using bottle caps?,what about waqar Younis he has done many times?,what about 2005 ashes where trescothick said they were using mints to get reverse swing?,what about faf du plessis he used zip to tamper the ball and has been caught 2 times?,double standards, actually you are jealous of Smith because of him England are losing the ashes.
 
What about Imran Khan he admitted he was using bottle caps?,what about waqar Younis he has done many times?,what about 2005 ashes where trescothick said they were using mints to get reverse swing?,what about faf du plessis he used zip to tamper the ball and has been caught 2 times?,double standards, actually you are jealous of Smith because of him England are losing the ashes.

Imran’s bottle top was when he was injured in a county game.

The rest prove my point. There is a massive difference in scale between using your fingernails or plastic zip or using sandpaper. One will give you a 5% advantage. The other will give you a 400% advantage.
 
Imran’s bottle top was when he was injured in a county game.

The rest prove my point. There is a massive difference in scale between using your fingernails or plastic zip or using sandpaper. One will give you a 5% advantage. The other will give you a 400% advantage.

He must be banned for 2-3 years,but life ban it is harsh.
 
He must be banned for 2-3 years,but life ban it is harsh.
I accepted his one year ban. But he should no more get back the captaincy after serving his sentence than Salman Butt should.
 
Why don’t you look up Mitchell Starc’s Test bowling average before and after the period Mid-2016 to Easter 2018?

And then compare it with his record during those 23 months. And ask yourself “why did his average dip 13 runs per wicket lower than before and after?”

There is a huge difference between what the others listed did to the ball and what Australia did.

One is like a guy who has an energy drink before a race. And the other is like a guy who injects himself with anabolic steroids every day, or has regular transfusions of oxygenated blood.

Of course he shouldn't get the Captaincy back. He wasn't a great captain anyways. To be honest Mitchell Starc was probably involved thhe most in this ball tampering scandal. I wouldn't be surprised if he did tamper with the ball before the scandal.

I'm not sure if Smith would have known about it much if it was happenning before sandpapergate, Warner is the one who would have been the mastermind of any previous incidents, along with Starc. How Starc walked away clean is mindblowing.
 
Snith’s Cheating ended batsmen’s careers and changed results.

And it was a completely different scale of ball tampering. It was precisely comparable to an athlete abusing anabolic steroids.

The spot fixers were fools who were corrupt, but they basically perpetrated a victimless crime. They are equivalent to the person who takes stationery home from work, or who leaves work half an hour early every day.

Astakhfarullah, this is mind blowing... corruption is a victimless crime??? Spot fixing is the same as taking stationery home from work?? I sincerely hope you are trolling. ‘Victimless crime’ - don’t you realize that WE were the victims!!! Man, with thinking like this, perhaps we deserve corrupt politicians.
 
Strac has walked away from the whole saga pretty clean and no punishment but he his figures show another story. Smith was a weak captain and shouldn't be allowed to captain again he cannot command he respect of his team!
 
Steve Smith should be the Australia captain. He is the best man for the job. And by all reports , Warner was the instigator for the tampering. As much as Junaids goes on about Starc figures, there is no proof of tampering before the South African series. Plenty of players have tampered with the ball and not got caught. At the end of the tampering happens and its difficult to stop. Most of the time, it's only away teams who are caught.
 
Smith is in god mode with the bat, offensively and defensively, and that is showing no signs of abating - so why encumber him with the captaincy?

Paine is doing a great job, he’s just become the first Australian captain for almost two decades to retain the Ashes in England.
 
Smith is in god mode with the bat, offensively and defensively, and that is showing no signs of abating - so why encumber him with the captaincy?

Paine is doing a great job, he’s just become the first Australian captain for almost two decades to retain the Ashes in England.

Tim Paine is 34 and doesn’t have a long term future. Steve Smith is not Joe Root. He can handle the pressure of captaincy and being the star batter. His batting was taken to the next level when he was actually made captain.
 
He doesn’t deserve the captaincy. He will always be a cheat no matter how great of player he is.
Stigma will never go away
 
Tim Paine is 34 and doesn’t have a long term future. Steve Smith is not Joe Root. He can handle the pressure of captaincy and being the star batter. His batting was taken to the next level when he was actually made captain.

Smith was not a great captain. He was too defensive. Paine, horrible reviews aside, is a better captain and a competent keeper bat. It is astounding the amount of disrespect on this sub for him. And what does age have anything to do with ability? Paine is not a pace bowler to fall away after 30.
 
Tim Paine is 34 and doesn’t have a long term future. Steve Smith is not Joe Root. He can handle the pressure of captaincy and being the star batter. His batting was taken to the next level when he was actually made captain.

Paine as captain sets the right example, he is not a cheat.
 
Australia will be setting an embarrassing example by letting that disgraceful cry baby cheat captain Australia again. He had his chance and he blew it, he has no moral authority to lead again. The same applies to David Warner as well. Australia which behaves like the USA of Cricket should be giving the captaincy to an untainted player
 
Australia will be setting an embarrassing example by letting that disgraceful cry baby cheat captain Australia again. He had his chance and he blew it, he has no moral authority to lead again. The same applies to David Warner as well. Australia which behaves like the USA of Cricket should be giving the captaincy to an untainted player

Wouldent it be normal for a cheat to lead a team, we have so much precedence its not funny. Other cricketers with no moral authority to lead their team including cheats Khan, faf, Atherton and akram leading their teams.
 
Wouldent it be normal for a cheat to lead a team, we have so much precedence its not funny. Other cricketers with no moral authority to lead their team including cheats Khan, faf, Atherton and akram leading their teams.

Who cares about what others are doing, shouldn't Australia the so called USA of Cricket be setting a superior example as always?
 
Who cares about what others are doing, shouldn't Australia the so called USA of Cricket be setting a superior example as always?

Its OK, you have the right to be intimidated by Australia, I'm sure you have a good reason.
 
Smith paid for his crime. He was banned for one year. It is time to move on. I think he should be captain again.
 
Smith paid for his crime. He was banned for one year. It is time to move on. I think he should be captain again.

He has been given enough favor by being allowed to play again. Captaincy is a big no no, the position demands integrity
 
Smith was not a great captain. He was too defensive. Paine, horrible reviews aside, is a better captain and a competent keeper bat. It is astounding the amount of disrespect on this sub for him. And what does age have anything to do with ability? Paine is not a pace bowler to fall away after 30.

You want a captain who will be around for a while. Tim Paine is clearly a short term option.

PP judges captains by how they set the field. That's not the sole criteria for me.
 
The thing with ball tampering is, many teams do it. Some get caught while some don't.

Smith has shown remorse and he served his time. Everyone deserves a second chance. Smith is a great man.
 
Paine made a howler to bowl first.

But he retained the Ashes, so should carry on for a while.

Australia's batting looks worrying barring, Marnus and Smith.

That means a lack of captaincy candidates.

I think Smith will most likely captain again.
 
Kevin Roberts has made it clear in recent interviews that Cricket Australia sees Paine as test captain for the forseeable future and that they believe that no other Australian could have led the side with such distinction as Paine after the Cape Town fiasco.

Paine's clearly still the best keeper in the country so I don't see any problems with him continuing to lead. Furthermore, it allows Smith to bat and bat and bat and bat and bat for as long as he wants without the pressure of captaincy.
 
Time for Australia to hand Steve Smith the captaincy again?

Hearing lot of praises for Tim Paine but the hard truth is if he had not bottled it with ridiculous reviews this series, Australia would have had an unbeaten Ashes series.

Also to add the fact that Tim Paine does not make the team as a cricketer. It was funny that in the first few tests of the Ashes how much he was deferring to Steve Smith for onfield decisions.

Rather than being vilified, Steve Smith in fact showed leadership quality in that fateful Test in South Africa by taking responsibility and the fall for his teammates antics rather than doing the easy thing and throw them under the bus.

The best batsman in the world has regained his rightful throne as the #1 Test batsman of the world and now it is time for him to be handed his captaincy back!
 
Nah..

Why not just let him focus on the thing he was born to do ie. batting ??
 
Tim Paine is a good team man but unfortunately I don't think he is an automatic pick in the XI as a player. I think, sooner or later Alex Carey will replace him as a keeper. Don't think Wade will be risked as a keeper when he has finally started to make runs purely as a batsman.

For me, Steven Smith should lead Australia in all formats.
 
Australia captain Tim Paine has revealed he broke his thumb during the fifth Ashes Test, while he's praised paceman Peter Siddle for bowling through the pain of a hip injury for most of the match.

The Test skipper has also revealed he won't be available to play in the KFC BBL this summer as he looks to focus on playing red-ball cricket.

England won the fifth Test at The Oval this week to level the five-match series at 2-2, although Australia retained the Ashes urn as the holders of the famous old trophy.

To add to the disappointment of losing the match in south London, Paine had to play through the pain of a busted thumb.

Play Video
Day four wrap: England level series but Aussies lift the urn
"My thumb was broken towards the end of that Test but it is not displaced, so I should be right to get back into training early," Paine wrote in his column for The Australian.

It is not known exactly when or how Paine suffered the injury or whether it's his right or left thumb.

The Test skipper was not selected for Tasmania’s opening two Marsh Cup games next week as the majority of Australia’s Ashes squad were given a well-earned break, but he's expected to feature for the Tigers in the lead-up to Australia's first Test of the home summer, against Pakistan in November.

Paine famously required seven separate operations on his right index finger after it was broken during an exhibition match in 2010, almost ending his career prematurely.

He also suffered a hairline fracture in his right thumb during the Johannesburg Test last year, his first as captain

In his column, Paine also touched on the hip injury suffered by Siddle on the opening day of the Test, which the Victorian hinted at during the match.

"Peter Siddle tore a hip flexor bowling on the first morning," Paine wrote.

"He has copped a bit of criticism for not bowling as well as he we know he can, but the team knows just how heroic he was. A lot of other people wouldn’t have bowled again in the match, but he pushed on because he didn’t want to leave Josh Hazlewood and Pat Cummins to do extra work. He’s a warrior, Sidds, and we love him deeply for that."


Siddle was picked ahead of Mitchell Starc and James Pattinson for the Oval Test and was uncharacteristically expensive on the opening day, conceding 0-61 from 17 overs in the first innings.

He also leaked four-runs-an-over in the second innings, although he did pick up the key wickets of Joe Denly for 94 and Jos Buttler for 47.

"I hurt my hip early on day one, so it’s been a bit of a graft in the last couple of days," Siddle told the BBC after day three.

"It’s been hard work, but it’s a Test match, you do what you can do and you stay out there."


It is understood Siddle's injury, like Paine's, is not overly serious and he's expected to be available to play for Victoria next month.

Paine said while playing Big Bash cricket for the Hobart Hurricanes is not on his radar for this season, he's keen to return to the 20-over game once his Test career is over.

"I’m keen to see just how far we can take this (Test) team and I’ve decided to give up the BBL so I can concentrate on red ball cricket and being in the best place to lead them," he wrote.

"Being captain is draining and I think I should take every chance to recharge my batteries.

"I’ll go back to the BBL when I’m finished, but for now my focus is on my main job."

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/tim...tain-england-bbl-hobart-hurricanes/2019-09-18
 
He is the equivalent of Lance Armstrong or Ben Johnson. And he shouldn’t be allowed to play, let alone lead.

He makes Salman Butt look like Mother Theresa. At least Butt’s cheating didn’t fraudulently make the opposition lose or end careers.

Salman Butt played a big role in ending three international careers prematurely with No-ballGate. The scandal effectively ended his own career, and Asif’s - and it ruined Amir’s to the point where he will be looking at huge unfulfilled potential and early retirement.
 
smith as a captain , not sure, but as a batsman just a different different different league.... just amazing .... the problem with putting him in the hot-seat is that it will keep bringing the clouds of cheating attempts ... so let him do what he is made to do.. score 100z and 200zz
 
Steve Smith should not be allowed to captain Australia again irrespective of his Ashes heroics, says former national team coach John Buchanan.

Smith's triumphant return to Test cricket, in which he scored 774 runs at 110.57 against England, was billed as a redemption story after his downfall in the Cape Town ball tampering scandal.

Yet the champion batsman was still booed throughout the Ashes by English fans, who had clearly not forgotten his failure as captain in 'Sandpapergate'.

Buchanan said in the Off-Field podcast that Smith's batting heroics should not wash away his past shortcomings as a leader.

"In my opinion, although unfortunate for him, it's a one-strike policy when you're captain of Australia," Buchanan said.

"If you're caught cheating, which that was, then irrespective of all the reasons behind that and around that, ultimately you had a choice and it was the wrong choice.

"Therefore, to me, yes welcome him back as an incredible player, which he demonstrated through England. But in terms of future captaincy? No.

"In terms of future leadership within the group? Certainly. There are a lot of experiences that he has had and can bring to that group and all formats of the game that he plays into the future. But it was just one of those moments in his life that I'm sure he'll forever regret."

Smith offered leadership as a senior player during the Ashes, regularly discussing field placements with the man who replaced him as Australian skipper, Tim Paine.

Buchanan said that Smith was brought undone by an Australian team culture that lacked leadership when he started as captain in 2015, succeeding Michael Clarke at age 26.

"Steve Smith, when he first came into the role as captain, was a young cricketer," Buchanan said.

"He was learning a little bit about captaincy and learning a heck of a lot about leadership. And so what he needed around him were good mentors. Really good leaders.

"And that's not just within the team and the team environment that extended to that broader environment of high performance and back through Cricket Australia. I think that was lacking. And I think he was exposed and the ultimate exposure was that decision he made in South Africa."

Smith's leadership ban ends in March, with momentum growing for him to reclaim the captaincy. Former captains Mark Taylor and Ricky Ponting are among his backers.

Paine had a mixed Ashes as skipper and is under pressure for his Test wicketkeeping position from younger Australian limited-overs gloveman Alex Carey. However, the Tasmanian veteran hit a century in the first round of Sheffield Shield cricket, his first first-class ton for nearly 13 years, to reassert his incumbency.

Should Paine's grip on the captaincy slip, there are seemingly few immediate options beyond Smith. Former Test skipper Ian Chappell recently predicted that Smith might reclaim the captaincy almost by default, with two other potential candidates dropped during the Ashes series.

"I think the problem for Australia will be there's no one else I can see to captain that side," Chappell said on Sports Sunday.

"Travis Head captains his state side, but Travis Head hasn't established himself as an Australian player. (Usman) Khawaja also captains Queensland from time to time but again, he's far from established.

"I would say, when Tim Paine decides to retire, at this stage there's no other obvious candidate."

Smith has at least reestablished his position as a Test batsman.

Fellow 'Sandpapergate' culprit Cameron Bancroft was dropped after two Ashes Tests, while David Warner had a historically-dismal series of 95 runs at 9.50, featuring three consecutive ducks among eight single-figure scores.

Warner hit an impressive century in NSW's opening Sheffield Shield match against Queensland, affirming the belief that he will keep his Test spot for the first match of this summer.

The left-handed opener averages nearly 60 in Australia, far better than his output abroad, and would fancy his chances of a bumper home campaign against Pakistan and New Zealand.

Warner made a golden duck in the second innings against Queensland. Smith didn't have a happy match, notching a first-innings duck and just 21 in the second dig as the Blues made a successful run chase.

https://wwos.nine.com.au/cricket/st...-verdict/da688c42-04f9-43c1-9426-0cb95ec6c2b5
 
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