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Time for England to sack Trevor Bayliss

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Junaids

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It's time for Andrew Strauss to fix his mistake, and get rid of Trevor Bayliss.

England have now lost 6 of their last 7 Tests. Collapsed in 12 of the last 18 innings.

And the cause is always the same: Bayliss's suicidal "Aggressive Batting" mantra.

Sure, we are a lot more competitive in ODI's than we were before. But we English couldn't care less about ODI's - it's like picking an England football manager according to how well he coaches tiddlywinks.

We are four months from an Ashes series against a seriously rubbish Australia. Yes, they could theoretically field four excellent quicks. But they were humiliated last year by Sri Lanka and South Africa, and only beat Pakistan 3-0 courtesy of terrible Pakistani selection and (non-existent) preparation.

This is how Bayliss's Test record looks.

NZ 1-1 home
Australia 3-2 home (how did we lose two Tests to a rabble we bowled out for 60?)
Pakistan 0-2 away
South Africa 2-1 away (no Steyn, and "led" by Amla)
Sri Lanka 2-0 home
Pakistan 2-2 home
Bangladesh 1-1 away
India 0-4 away

Won 11
Drawn 4
Lost 13

Sorry, it's not good enough.

Bayliss and his kamikaze batting have got to go.
 
I'm listening to Michael Vaughan on TMS.

Making exactly the same points: excessive risks while batting.

When FAF is around, South Africa sell their wickets dearly, and win.

But we English throw the bat like drunken sailors.

Look at our players. We should be the top team in the world. But our stupid reckless mentality keeps throwing it away.

This isn't limited overs rubbish for children. This is Test cricket, and it's all about discipline.
 
i don't think it is the coach. basically eng have only one world class batsman (root) and he cannot carry the team on his back all the time. if it wasn't for his epic 180 at lords they would have lost that match as well.

cook ballance jennings are all average batsmen and stokes moeen bairstow cannot do much if the top order repeatedly fails

eng needs two top batsmen alongside root otherwise they will continue to collapse

i can't wait for our test series in eng next year. we were unlucky not to win last year but next year with an attack of amir hasan junaid yasir and shadab against this mediocre lineup i am very confident we will whitewash eng.
 
England have lost six of their last eight Tests, 8 of their last 13, and, since 2015, they've now lost on eight separate occasions in the very next match after pulling off a victory, England test side on the slide. But is it just down to the coach? players and selectors have to take some blame as well.
 
Amjid Javed said:
England have lost six of their last eight Tests, 8 of their last 13, and, since 2015, they've now lost on eight separate occasions in the very next match after pulling off a victory, England test side on the slide. But is it just down to the coach? players and selectors have to take some blame as well.
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I blame the coach because we keep playing reckless cricket.

We didn't even last 100 overs in the MATCH at Trent Bridge.

There's no fight.

The selection is poor too. I don't care how bad Haseeb Hameed's form is: he opens, full stop.

Similarly, even before Ballance was first dropped two years ago I said that his technique could not work in Tests.

1 Cook
2 Hameed
3 Jennings
4 Root
5 Bairstow
6 Stokes
7 Moeen
8 Woakes
9 Broad
10 Finn
11 Anderson

And no more of this attacking rubbish.
 
This seems a little reactionary. Removing the coach is not going to solve the problems. Root has just become captain, allow him and Bayliss to develop an understanding.

Not sure Root should be given so much influence over selections- the selection of Ballance and Dawson have hardly paid dividends.
 
Junaids said:
I blame the coach because we keep playing reckless cricket.

We didn't even last 100 overs in the MATCH at Trent Bridge.

There's no fight.

The selection is poor too. I don't care how bad Haseeb Hameed's form is: he opens, full stop.

Similarly, even before Ballance was first dropped two years ago I said that his technique could not work in Tests.

1 Cook
2 Hameed
3 Jennings
4 Root
5 Bairstow
6 Stokes
7 Moeen
8 Woakes
9 Broad
10 Finn
11 Anderson

And no more of this attacking rubbish.
Click to expand...

Finn isn't international quality anymore, we have to be looking elsewhere. Hameed is obviously unselectable right now and we've got to be looking at guys like Stoneman and Westley. Picking someone who's getting ripped to shreds by county attacks isn't going to help.
 
English players are mental midgets. This "explosiveness", "aggression" and "positivity" is just a facade to cover that up. The most overrated Test team in the world. Have been mediocre everywhere apart from the South Africa tour which was against a half strength South African side which wasn't there mentally. Even in LOIs they have bottled it twice since the World Cup.
 
We should have appointed Jason Gillespie in the first place.

Australia have made clear that Justin Langer is their next coach, and Gillespie is now coaching Papua New Guinea.

Bayliss's "brand" of kamikaze reckless attack is exposed now. The English cricket public has had its doubts for a while, but after today he's even more of a lame duck than Theresa May.

I can see Cook, Hameed, Root and Bairstow wearing down Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon. But not under Bayliss.
 
Junaids said:
We should have appointed Jason Gillespie in the first place.

Australia have made clear that Justin Langer is their next coach, and Gillespie is now coaching Papua New Guinea.

Bayliss's "brand" of kamikaze reckless attack is exposed now. The English cricket public has had its doubts for a while, but after today he's even more of a lame duck than Theresa May.

I can see Cook, Hameed, Root and Bairstow wearing down Starc, Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon. But not under Bayliss.
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Gillespie's made it pretty clear he wants to spend more time at home hence why he's only taken on the temporary jobs recently. The PNG job is I believe 2 months long with most of the games being played on a tour in Australia. Looks like we're setting up Collingwood as our next coach when he eventually retires.
 
Players need to take responsibility.
Jennings and Balance don't cut it and the middle order is hit and miss.
If Trevor was forcing it then Cook would be batting with an improved strike rate too, no?
 
All this talk of "positive" and "aggressive" cricket is fine but you still need to graft in Tests. And nobody in this England team is willing to do that.

To not bat even 100 overs in a Test is unacceptable.

The top order remains brittle - Strauss and Trott have not been adequately replaced. Keaton Jennings is not convincing, but I'd give him the series. Gary Ballance has a rubbish technique and is a TTF at international level yet keeps getting picked ! How many more innings do the selectors need to see him struggle in for the message to sink in ?!

Mark Wood has pace but is going the way of Wahab Riaz. "Intimidating spells" and a few played and misses don't cut it - you need wickets at this level.
 
Leo23 said:
i don't think it is the coach. basically eng have only one world class batsman (root) and he cannot carry the team on his back all the time. if it wasn't for his epic 180 at lords they would have lost that match as well.

cook ballance jennings are all average batsmen and stokes moeen bairstow cannot do much if the top order repeatedly fails

eng needs two top batsmen alongside root otherwise they will continue to collapse

i can't wait for our test series in eng next year. we were unlucky not to win last year but next year with an attack of amir hasan junaid yasir and shadab against this mediocre lineup i am very confident we will whitewash eng.
Click to expand...

The Pakistani batting will struggle and England will probably win as a result.
 
Some points of Junaids points which I don't agree with are that England don't care about LO. Lol that's a myth. They were always disappointed and would make so many changes to try and solve there problems in LO cricket. 2nd point I don't agree with is calling Australia rubbish. Look at how they competed in India compared to England. They would have beaten Pakian regardless of which if your fantasy teams they selected. South Africa have done well in Australia recently so losing to them was no disgrace, the margin of defeat was embarrassing. The losses to Sri Lanka were bad but losing Okefe didn't help. But I don't think England would have done any better than Aussies, there spin playing ability is non exsistant and the less said about there spin attack the better.


On topic. Baylis has done a good job in LO cricket but in tests as Junaids has mentioned his all aggressive approach is rubbish. I think it is done for flat pitches but pitches that have something in it for the bowlers England batsmen should be more watchful and more careful. If England can get off to a good start Bairstow, Stokes, and Ali could then accelerant and take on tired bowlers. But England have found themselves in trouble early and there middle order has too much to do.

I would definitely get Hameed back in the team and move Root upto 3. That could help England start better imo.
 
Itni zaldee? We were discussing few months back about the mega transformation.

I think, TB has to find a balance between longer & shorter format of the game - his batting picks need to be a bit more selective. It's not that a reborn ENG team is ramming around ODI arena.

Pleple are shocked today, because the Test results are exposed today, but few months back I wrote something on ODI team also - repeating that with little extension -

Since WC 2015, ENG in ODI

3-2 NZ (H) - won the decider by DWL
2-3 AUS (H) - blown away in decider to a AUS team resting few players
3-1 PAK (N/UAE) - Azhar's team
2-3 SAF (A) - surrendered a 2-0 lead
3-0 SR: (H) - should have been 3-1, or 4-1, for the rain & last ball 6 tie
4-1 PAK (H) - Azhar's team, lost 5th match after 4-0 lead & resting few players
2-1 BD (A) - 3 very close matches
1-2 IND (A) - lost the series 2-0
3-0 WI (A)
2-1 SAF (H) - won series 2-0, blown in the dead rubber
3-1 CT (H) - blew opponents in group stages, lost inside 35 overs by 8 wickets in 1st KO hurdle

I might be missing 1 or 2 pieces here - but this gives me a clear indication of "softi" - minnow bashers, who run away from contest when someone isn't bullied at the initial sight. They'll blow WI at home again 5-0 or 4-1......... then, I hope Aussies solve their issues to put an ODI team that doesn't rest more than 2/3 of their 1st choice players :(
 
One thing I forgot to add in my post above was that I think it maybe a good idea for Baylis to be in charge of the LO teams and allow someone else to coach the test team.

Don't know how realistic this but think could help England as Baylis won't change from his aggressive batting approach. One thing I find interesting though is how England and Baylis opt for an all aggressive approach with the bat but will make defensive bowling changes and defensive selections. Bring Ballance back was a safety choice and same with Dawson who isn't a test match cricketer.
 
MMHS said:
Itni zaldee? We were discussing few months back about the mega transformation.

I think, TB has to find a balance between longer & shorter format of the game - his batting picks need to be a bit more selective. It's not that a reborn ENG team is ramming around ODI arena.

Pleple are shocked today, because the Test results are exposed today, but few months back I wrote something on ODI team also - repeating that with little extension -

Since WC 2015, ENG in ODI

3-2 NZ (H) - won the decider by DWL
2-3 AUS (H) - blown away in decider to a AUS team resting few players
3-1 PAK (N/UAE) - Azhar's team
2-3 SAF (A) - surrendered a 2-0 lead
3-0 SR: (H) - should have been 3-1, or 4-1, for the rain & last ball 6 tie
4-1 PAK (H) - Azhar's team, lost 5th match after 4-0 lead & resting few players
2-1 BD (A) - 3 very close matches
1-2 IND (A) - lost the series 2-0
3-0 WI (A)
2-1 SAF (H) - won series 2-0, blown in the dead rubber
3-1 CT (H) - blew opponents in group stages, lost inside 35 overs by 8 wickets in 1st KO hurdle

I might be missing 1 or 2 pieces here - but this gives me a clear indication of "softi" - minnow bashers, who run away from contest when someone isn't bullied at the initial sight. They'll blow WI at home again 5-0 or 4-1......... then, I hope Aussies solve their issues to put an ODI team that doesn't rest more than 2/3 of their 1st choice players :(
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Australia will beat most teams in LO at home. Don't think it exposes England LO team but may expose 1 or 2 players .


Hoping for a good series.
 
Fully agree with Junaids the OP.

England batted cavalierly - and extremely stupidly. This was a test match for crying out loud. Patience was the key on this slow wicket. Instead, England displayed staggering ineptitude and played recklessly. They tried to play like Gilchrist forgetting the fact that Gilchrist batted at number 7 in the last chance saloon position. You cannot bat like Gilchrist in a test match in the top 6 batting positions on a slow wicket.

Bayliss is the brains behind this approach so he deserves the criticism.
 
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Lets analyse after the SA series.

Don't think he is going anywhere to be honest.

One point mooted on TMS was maybe Paul Farbrace can take a lead role for Tests and Baylis for the ODIs.
 
Junaids said:
Sure, we are a lot more competitive in ODI's than we were before. But we English couldn't care less about ODI's - it's like picking an England football manager according to how well he coaches tiddlywinks.
Click to expand...

The attendance figures suggest otherwise.
 
Bayliss was brought in for OD cricket.

They better get different coaches for different formats.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
The attendance figures suggest otherwise.
Click to expand...

Justcrazy said:
Bayliss was brought in for OD cricket.

They better get different coaches for different formats.
Click to expand...
Andrew Strauss is like me, the sponsors, the corporate box holders and the people who spend £100 per day per Test ticket.

Privately educated. Only follows Tests. Follows Rugby Union as much as football. And most importantly.........

Pays the bills for the ECB.

You can't survive as England coach if you improve the ODI performance but underachieve in Tests.

Just read the reader feedback on the online versions of The Times, The Daily Telegraph and even The Guardian.

Because the reality is that the ECB doesn't really get to choose the coach. Or captain.

If you lose the support of the MCC you are in trouble. But what really counts is what is said behind closed doors in the private gentleman's clubs: The Athenaeum, Brooks, Boodles, the Carlton, the East India Club, the Garrick and The Reform Club.

And I can assure you, nobody there is saying "well at least we can score 380 now in ODI's."
 
Justcrazy said:
Bayliss was brought in for OD cricket.

They better get different coaches for different formats.
Click to expand...

Has he done anything exceptional with ODI team? What I see is few changes in ODI lineup, but that could have been the case after a WC disaster under any other coach. Personally, I didn't like his ODI team composition, neither strategy.

We are in an era, when there are not many good ODI teams & no outstanding team. PAK, SRL & WI are probably at their lowest in last 20 years, NZ also isn't that strong since WC; ZIM, BD, AFG improved but still never in top bracket. Only you can say IND, AUS & SAF are solid ODI teams. Still, Poms are easily behind these 3 & the day PAK had a right turn of their screw, simply rolled Poms.

Therefore, I am not sure what ENG team actually has achieved in last 27 months. May be higher W/L, but that's only a function of how many soft matches you are playing. So far, only significant match that I see ENG winning is the 2nd ODI against SAF for a 2-0 lead, when SAF failed to chase probably run a ball 60 with 5/6 wickets at hand.
 
MMHS said:
Has he done anything exceptional with ODI team? What I see is few changes in ODI lineup, but that could have been the case after a WC disaster under any other coach. Personally, I didn't like his ODI team composition, neither strategy.

We are in an era, when there are not many good ODI teams & no outstanding team. PAK, SRL & WI are probably at their lowest in last 20 years, NZ also isn't that strong since WC; ZIM, BD, AFG improved but still never in top bracket. Only you can say IND, AUS & SAF are solid ODI teams. Still, Poms are easily behind these 3 & the day PAK had a right turn of their screw, simply rolled Poms.

Therefore, I am not sure what ENG team actually has achieved in last 27 months. May be higher W/L, but that's only a function of how many soft matches you are playing. So far, only significant match that I see ENG winning is the 2nd ODI against SAF for a 2-0 lead, when SAF failed to chase probably run a ball 60 with 5/6 wickets at hand.
Click to expand...

And Pakistan at their lowest won the Champions Trophy 17, thats the kind of talent and potential Pakistan has. :hafeez2
 
Haven't England had a win percentage of around 50% in Tests for like the last 20 years or so?
 
I have made the observation before: Bayliss has more influence on the odi/t20 team results, but his test coaching has been indifferent.
 
Eng fans should get used to these kind of results after they mad selfish player like Root as their captain.
He ll continue to play for his avg without much positive effect on result.
Eng need to get rid of
Cook ( think avg of 38 in last 20 tests with 2 100s only)
James Anderson (35 years old)
And other useless players at top
 
Asim2Good said:
Eng fans should get used to these kind of results after they mad selfish player like Root as their captain.
He ll continue to play for his avg without much positive effect on result.
Eng need to get rid of
Cook ( think avg of 38 in last 20 tests with 2 100s only)
James Anderson (35 years old)
And other useless players at top
Click to expand...

Care to expand on how Root selfishly plays for his average...?
 
According to George Dobell, England told Surrey that they wouldn't be naming a 13 man squad but if they did, Mark Stoneman would be the 13th man.

Well England did name a 13 man squad and Mark Stoneman wasn't in the squad at all.

Only two weeks ago Bayliss said he wouldn't play 8 batsmen as it'd just paper over the cracks. Well he's playing 8 batsmen in this Test.

He said Moeen Ali would be used as the 2nd spinner, yet here he is the main spinner. Liam Dawson gets called up and dropped whilst England's best spinner in the India tour in Adil Rashid is nowhere to be seen.

There is no rhyme or reason to England's selection policies. The only constant under Bayliss in Tests has been the batting collapses.
 
Unsure what they picked Malan for. Surely Stoneman was next cab off the rank?

Jennings is half a class below test level.
 
Maybe but I think selection is an issue in England atm. Like y the heck is Jennings and malan playing and y isn't stoneman and Rashid playing. Also Root at 3 plz
Team should be
Cook
Stoneman
Root
Westly
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes/Roland jones
Rashid
Broad
Anderson
 
Robert said:
Unsure what they picked Malan for. Surely Stoneman was next cab off the rank?

Jennings is half a class below test level.
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Stoneman and Westley were fighting it out for the three spot. Stoneman wasn't selected because they didn't want three lefties in the top order again. To a certain extent, the plan worked: the right-left combo disrupted the SA bowlers which prevented them from gaining rhythm so it was probably the right call.

I am glad Malan was picked ahead of Dawson. That said, I wish they had played Rashid. That would have added some much needed variety to the bowling attack, and SA are hardly renowned players of spin. But let's be honest, as soon as Woakes is back Malan will probably lose his spot. The team looks unbalanced at the moment- the return of Woakes should help.

Not sure what Moeen needs to do to be given a chance to bat higher.
 
MMHS said:
Has he done anything exceptional with ODI team? What I see is few changes in ODI lineup, but that could have been the case after a WC disaster under any other coach. Personally, I didn't like his ODI team composition, neither strategy.

We are in an era, when there are not many good ODI teams & no outstanding team. PAK, SRL & WI are probably at their lowest in last 20 years, NZ also isn't that strong since WC; ZIM, BD, AFG improved but still never in top bracket. Only you can say IND, AUS & SAF are solid ODI teams. Still, Poms are easily behind these 3 & the day PAK had a right turn of their screw, simply rolled Poms.

Therefore, I am not sure what ENG team actually has achieved in last 27 months. May be higher W/L, but that's only a function of how many soft matches you are playing. So far, only significant match that I see ENG winning is the 2nd ODI against SAF for a 2-0 lead, when SAF failed to chase probably run a ball 60 with 5/6 wickets at hand.
Click to expand...
Imo there's is going to be a change in era. An era where Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Srilanka, West Indies will be frequently beaten by England, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh.
South Africa and Australia have gone down after wc 2015 and this champions trophy showed that clearly. Also New Zealand r barely as good as they were under mcculum. Srilanka and west Indies obviously not as good as before.
Meanwhile look at Pakistan and Bangladesh and how much they have improved in last 12 months. Especially Bangladesh. Pakistan it's more in last 6 months than 12 months but still I expect a lot from these teams in future. India and England obviously will always be top quality teams.
 
Robert said:
Unsure what they picked Malan for. Surely Stoneman was next cab off the rank?

Jennings is half a class below test level.
Click to expand...

They don't want too many lefties in the team , if he comes in it has to be a straight swap with another leftie possibly jennings but he will get the whole series I reckon
 
Junaids said:
Andrew Strauss is like me, the sponsors, the corporate box holders and the people who spend £100 per day per Test ticket.

Privately educated. Only follows Tests. Follows Rugby Union as much as football. And most importantly.........

Pays the bills for the ECB.

You can't survive as England coach if you improve the ODI performance but underachieve in Tests.

Just read the reader feedback on the online versions of The Times, The Daily Telegraph and even The Guardian.

Because the reality is that the ECB doesn't really get to choose the coach. Or captain.

If you lose the support of the MCC you are in trouble. But what really counts is what is said behind closed doors in the private gentleman's clubs: The Athenaeum, Brooks, Boodles, the Carlton, the East India Club, the Garrick and The Reform Club.

And I can assure you, nobody there is saying "well at least we can score 380 now in ODI's."
Click to expand...

Sadly, the days when those people held sway over the plebians are long gone. In general that's a sad thing, but the one thing the British aristocracy is wrong about is the merits of Test Cricket vs limited overs. Sadly, the Empire and the old-boys network has gone with a whimper, and TRPs matter more than the view in the gentleman's clubs.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
Sadly, the days when those people held sway over the plebians are long gone. In general that's a sad thing, but the one thing the British aristocracy is wrong about is the merits of Test Cricket vs limited overs. Sadly, the Empire and the old-boys network has gone with a whimper, and TRPs matter more than the view in the gentleman's clubs.
Click to expand...

Not in England!

Every Television Ratings Point since 2005 has been miniscule. Ratings for both Test and ODI cricket on Sky are so small as to be immeasurable, but Sky refuse to release their ratings anyway. And the one time they did......

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/12/ashes-sky-england-australia-ecb-tv

Every form of cricket has been in decline in England since free-to-air TV lost the coverage rights. It has basically hidden the game from view.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...and-Wales-has-plummeted-ECB-survey-shows.html

And still the people Will Carling described as "57 old farts" run cricket, just as they did rugby.

http://en.espn.co.uk/onthisday/rugby/story/96238.html
 
England are heavy favourites to win this test now and will hammer a pathetic WIs side later this summer. Bayliss won't be sacked anytime soon, at least not until after the Ashes.
 
Does this guy have any authority over his team ? The discipline is as bad as the batting collapses.

Not convinced by Bayliss at all. He admits he doesn't watch county cricket, no wonder there's been the batting lineup has changed more times than a pair of socks.
 
They should try to hire Saeed Ajmal as their Coach now that he has officially announced his retirement
 
Markhor said:
Does this guy have any authority over his team ? The discipline is as bad as the batting collapses.

Not convinced by Bayliss at all. He admits he doesn't watch county cricket, no wonder there's been the batting lineup has changed more times than a pair of socks.
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Not much indiscipline that I saw. It is a mountain out of a molehill regarding this headbutt nonsense.

On field, England were ahead till deep into the third day, away from home, so better people don't over-react so drastically to literally one bad day of play.
 
I am not sure if he is part of selection process (should be), but one change he must do before WACA is to play a specialist WK - this is probably one of the worst choices I have seen to bat Johnny at 7 (& keep with him), & play Woakes as all-rounder, when Foakes averages 42 in FC (for almost 4K runs & a better WK).

For WACA, they should drop one of the batsman and play Foakes, promoting Johnny at 4/5; while after that they should play Masson Carnie for Woakes in last 3 Tests.

Still, the Gabba result sacred me - for Ashes, I respect Aussies but support Poms, may be because of not having any ownership on either team, my soft corner is for the underdogs, but Poms are stressing me as well.

Can't see them avoiding 5-0:( without rain:)
 
Given England's batting problems Bairstow must play as a specialist. It would take pressure off Root too. We are sacrificing a strength to plug a weakness, like how we wasted Stewart.
 
Robert said:
Given England's batting problems Bairstow must play as a specialist. It would take pressure off Root too. We are sacrificing a strength to plug a weakness, like how we wasted Stewart.
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Irrespective of whether Bairstow keeps or not, isn't no. 7 too low for such a class player. He should be making 100s at no. 5 and not pretty 40s while Starc and Cummins blow off the tail. That seemed a terrible decision to me.
 
In cricket coaches make no difference if the raw materials are not there. Even With Stokes England look pretty average,without him they are bordering on the mediocre.
 
He's getting the best out of them apart from Bairstow. England just isn't that good.

Australia on the other hand are on the rise with their two best test prospects finally in the team. England better hope they don't gain confidence or they will get buried with Warner and Smith already playing at ATG level.
 
Princejain191 said:
Irrespective of whether Bairstow keeps or not, isn't no. 7 too low for such a class player. He should be making 100s at no. 5 and not pretty 40s while Starc and Cummins blow off the tail. That seemed a terrible decision to me.
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Agreed

The top 5 should look like

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Bairstow
 
Chief Destroyer said:
He's getting the best out of them apart from Bairstow. England just isn't that good.

Australia on the other hand are on the rise with their two best test prospects finally in the team. England better hope they don't gain confidence or they will get buried with Warner and Smith already playing at ATG level.
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Australia are on the up. Don't understand why people think there such a weak team. Nerd to replace Shaun Marsh and Khawaja though.
 
MMHS said:
I am not sure if he is part of selection process (should be), but one change he must do before WACA is to play a specialist WK - this is probably one of the worst choices I have seen to bat Johnny at 7 (& keep with him), & play Woakes as all-rounder, when Foakes averages 42 in FC (for almost 4K runs & a better WK).

For WACA, they should drop one of the batsman and play Foakes, promoting Johnny at 4/5; while after that they should play Masson Carnie for Woakes in last 3 Tests.

Still, the Gabba result sacred me - for Ashes, I respect Aussies but support Poms, may be because of not having any ownership on either team, my soft corner is for the underdogs, but Poms are stressing me as well.

Can't see them avoiding 5-0:( without rain:)
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Bairstow will stay at 7. Poms like batting depth and having bits and pieces cricketers.
 
Hasan123 said:
Bairstow will stay at 7. Poms like batting depth and having bits and pieces cricketers.
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I would say that is the foreign coaches starting with Duncan Fletcher, not “Poms”.

Since Gilchrist emerged the thinking has been to make a batsman into a keeper, instead of picking the best keeper. I think that is wrong. Gilchrist was a one-off.

Moeen is the best spinner in England and Wales, he just happens to be able to bat too. Woakes isn’t a bitsa, he’s one of the four best available bowlers.

England and Wales is just not making outstanding players at present.
 
Robert said:
I would say that is the foreign coaches starting with Duncan Fletcher, not “Poms”.

Since Gilchrist emerged the thinking has been to make a batsman into a keeper, instead of picking the best keeper. I think that is wrong. Gilchrist was a one-off.

Moeen is the best spinner in England and Wales, he just happens to be able to bat too. Woakes isn’t a bitsa, he’s one of the four best available bowlers.

England and Wales is just not making outstanding players at present.
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It's starting to become a Pom tradition to pick a spinner on his batting ability as well.

Don't you rate Mason Crane?
 
Hasan123 said:
It's starting to become a Pom tradition to pick a spinner on his batting ability as well.

Don't you rate Mason Crane?
Click to expand...

It isn't. Moeen is the best spinner the "Poms" have at present.

Crane is a good prospect at who will need coaching by someone outside the ECB. I have seen many false dawns with English leggies who don't kick on because the art died here seventy years ago.

Having said that I would pick him just to hit Australia with something different because four FMs won't get twenty wickets without the scoreboard pressure our top six cannot deliver.
 
Junaids said:
Not in England!

Every Television Ratings Point since 2005 has been miniscule. Ratings for both Test and ODI cricket on Sky are so small as to be immeasurable, but Sky refuse to release their ratings anyway. And the one time they did......

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/12/ashes-sky-england-australia-ecb-tv

Every form of cricket has been in decline in England since free-to-air TV lost the coverage rights. It has basically hidden the game from view.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...and-Wales-has-plummeted-ECB-survey-shows.html

And still the people Will Carling described as "57 old farts" run cricket, just as they did rugby.

http://en.espn.co.uk/onthisday/rugby/story/96238.html
Click to expand...

You have to take these stories/articles on ratings with a bit of critical observation. Ratings may have fallen, but its not due to the decline of crickets attractiveness in UK. Its because there are other free mediums to follow cricket on, such as the internet when people don't have time to sit in front of a tv for 5 days in the middle of the week. When cricket was on Channel 4 15 years or so ago, internet viewings and streaming was less popular but with Broadband its easier to watch or listen on TMS whenever one wants. I remember waiting for the cricket at 10.55 on channel 4 and BBC but now sometimes i dont even realise its on and when i do there's always somewhere on the internet to catch it.

The real popularity of cricket can be seen at many cricket grounds when you cant get a ticket. also in many village cricket clubs the under 13's will have one or two teams and then 2 miles down the road another team will have the same numbers.
 
Robert said:
It isn't. Moeen is the best spinner the "Poms" have at present.

Crane is a good prospect at who will need coaching by someone outside the ECB. I have seen many false dawns with English leggies who don't kick on because the art died here seventy years ago.

Having said that I would pick him just to hit Australia with something different because four FMs won't get twenty wickets without the scoreboard pressure our top six cannot deliver.
Click to expand...

Why on earth can't people judge players on their merit rather than based on how other players with similar descriptive labels performed?
 
CricketAnalyst said:
Why on earth can't people judge players on their merit rather than based on how other players with similar descriptive labels performed?
Click to expand...
People? You mean me?

Because we have to learn from our mistakes and England have not produced a test leggie since the 1950s. The coaching is not there. Crane is not going to magically turn into Shane. Even the latter didn't do that by himself. He had an excellent coach.
 
Robert said:
People? You mean me?

Because we have to learn from our mistakes and England have not produced a test leggie since the 1950s. The coaching is not there. Crane is not going to magically turn into Shane. Even the latter didn't do that by himself. He had an excellent coach.
Click to expand...

Cranes been linking up with Stuart MacGill again during this Ashes tour after the work he did with him last winter.
 
Robert said:
Aces. Hope MacGilla is as good a teacher as he was a bowler.
Click to expand...

He is good, very good. BCB lined him up for spin coaching role for National team & academy; but guy probably wasn't interested for year long long term contract, rather he was more interested in short term coaching contracts.

But, I think ECB should encourage Counties for playing more spinners - now that with better drainage English wickets are also drier. May be Counties should be allowed to take one extra foreigner, if it's a spinner. At present options are too limited even for McGill to improve in short time.
 
Only the test grounds are drier.

Since the beginning on OD professional cricket in England and Wales it has been all about four FMs and a flat offspinner. Even Swann was a fluke.
 
I think Tb is an awful coach. All talk and little substance. Andy flower was the best thing to happen to English cricket in the last ten years.
 
He might be a goner after this tour I suppose. Fletcher and Flower were both exited following catastrophic tours of Australia, so perhaps with Bayliss we are going for the hat-trick.
 
Abid Z said:
I think Tb is an awful coach. All talk and little substance. Andy flower was the best thing to happen to English cricket in the last ten years.
Click to expand...

Initially, yes. But as the tenure progressed he grew increasingly demonic, and presided over a team that was back-biting and disunited. Cook wasn't really a strong captain either.
 
Abid Z said:
I think Tb is an awful coach. All talk and little substance. Andy flower was the best thing to happen to English cricket in the last ten years.
Click to expand...

Up until the Cook tour of India. He went on too long and probably piled on too much pressure as his team succumbed to mental illness, physical wear and tear, and internal politics. They needed to have a few more laughs together.
 
Robert said:
Up until the Cook tour of India. He went on too long and probably piled on too much pressure as his team succumbed to mental illness, physical wear and tear, and internal politics. They needed to have a few more laughs together.
Click to expand...

The way AF stepped in and stepped up was nothing short of transformational for England in late 2000’s. He brought discipline and method as well as some good results. Yes he had flaws, who doesn’t. Yes he ran out of ideas, everybody does. The great thing was that he let the cricket do the talking. TB just irritates the hell out of me now. Full of media speak and gibberish with hardly any decent results. No real outstanding talent though a very large squad. Should go.
 
ENG have tried many coaches from all over the world in last 2 decades, but most part of this period, I have seen few glaring weakness in their team - lack of spine, lack of killer instinct and obvious weakness against spin both with bat & ball.

In that regard, thinking out of box, I would say they should target an Asian Coach this time. May be Kumble or Dravid, Hathura or even Mushi (Javed is too old, but he could have been great pick as well - didn't work well with PCB, but Javed with his experience can fix many issues with the ENG team) and add someone like Gooch as their batting consultant. May be an Englishman can be the fast bowing coach (Or Jimmy can be player-coach; he'll be my first pick for fast bowling coach of BCB in future, after retirement), but Poms need someone who can think and work outside this traditional 5 men pace attack, bits & pieces thoughts - they are getting into serious monotony and I am afraid, they'll flop in 2019 WC as well.
 
MMHS said:
ENG have tried many coaches from all over the world in last 2 decades, but most part of this period, I have seen few glaring weakness in their team - lack of spine, lack of killer instinct and obvious weakness against spin both with bat & ball.

In that regard, thinking out of box, I would say they should target an Asian Coach this time. May be Kumble or Dravid, Hathura or even Mushi (Javed is too old, but he could have been great pick as well - didn't work well with PCB, but Javed with his experience can fix many issues with the ENG team) and add someone like Gooch as their batting consultant. May be an Englishman can be the fast bowing coach (Or Jimmy can be player-coach; he'll be my first pick for fast bowling coach of BCB in future, after retirement), but Poms need someone who can think and work outside this traditional 5 men pace attack, bits & pieces thoughts - they are getting into serious monotony and I am afraid, they'll flop in 2019 WC as well.
Click to expand...

Would bet on Collingwood being our next coach.
 
HitWicket said:
Would bet on Collingwood being our next coach.
Click to expand...

Then I bet, you'll regret that even more - he is exactly the type I wish ENG could get rid off!!!!! I like PC for his honest efforts, but Head coach is too big for him - may be Assistant to Kumble or Hathura can be the best start. Gary (Kristen) has managed IND for 4 years and he has managed some of the ATG spin players, spinners - he is also a great pick, but Collinwood :(
 
MMHS said:
ENG have tried many coaches from all over the world in last 2 decades, but most part of this period, I have seen few glaring weakness in their team - lack of spine, lack of killer instinct and obvious weakness against spin both with bat & ball.
Click to expand...

Lack of killer instinct is part of being English. We only start fighting when backed into a corner - see Agincourt, Armada, Dunkirk.

The weakness against spin is due to the structure of cricket in E&W. In the eighties every English batter could play spin well.

Dunno what was wrong with Farbrace as coach.
 
Robert said:
Lack of killer instinct is part of being English. We only start fighting when backed into a corner - see Agincourt, Armada, Dunkirk.

The weakness against spin is due to the structure of cricket in E&W. In the eighties every English batter could play spin well.

Dunno what was wrong with Farbrace as coach.
Click to expand...

Do you think Collinwood is a good choice?
 
Jimmy & Broad are in comfort zones & not improving or challenged at this stage of their careers. They rest on their huge home hauls. I think England need a coach who can harness Stokes into a positive force, encourage Joe Root's instincts with some support & tempering advice & challenge Broad & Stokes to improve & grow.

John Buchanan might be able to. Jason Gillespie perhaps (but I think he'll be next Oz coach).
 
wrongun said:
Jimmy & Broad are in comfort zones & not improving or challenged at this stage of their careers. They rest on their huge home hauls. I think England need a coach who can harness Stokes into a positive force, encourage Joe Root's instincts with some support & tempering advice & challenge Broad & Stokes to improve & grow.

John Buchanan might be able to. Jason Gillespie perhaps (but I think he'll be next Oz coach).
Click to expand...

Broad should not be mentioned with Dukerson. He's a far more complete bowler. He's doing his job here, just doesn't have any hit the deck bowler to maintain pressure from the other side. All his partners are floaty bowlers that are easy to negotiate on bouncy pitches. If you can't hit the splice consistently, you will not get wickets here. Broad is capable, the rest aren't.

Wood would've helped.
 
Not quite true. Swing bowlers (Alderman, Dale, McDermott, Fleming, Funky Miller etc) have prospered here. You just need to be able to swing the Kookaburra ;)
 
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