Time to accept that Pakistan is a mediocre side...

[Sher Khan]

I have been a fan of the Pakistani cricket team for so many years. But this loss to Zimbabwe in what I would say was a "must-win" match in a World Cup is beyond embarassing. It is unbearable and painful.

People have been saying for multiple years of how mediocre the Pakistani side actually is. It is not a coincidence to lose to Zimbabwe twice in the matter of a few months.

I am finding it hard to commit to supporting Pakistan in the future. If one wants to support them we need to accept that they are a mediocre side. If we have unrealistic expectations from our side it will affect our mental health and will leave us feeling down most of the time.

 

[moghul]

Yes, particularly batting is lower minnow class. I'm sure teams like Scotland, Namibia have better batsmen than passengers like Haider , Asif, Khushdil and Iftikhar.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Australian conditions are the least favorable conditions for Pakistan. Probably will compete better in other places. UAE, other subcontinent countries. SA might be a bit of challenge with full strength sides.

 

[The_KING]

We have been mostly a mediocre side since the days of Inzi.

 

[Sher Khan]

Australian conditions are the least favorable conditions for Pakistan. Probably will compete better in other places. UAE, other subcontinent countries. SA might be a bit of challenge with full strength sides.

Let's be honest most teams send their second or third string teams to face Pakistan in the subcontinent anyways. Do their is nothing to write home about if we beat them there.

 

[Suleiman]

Should’ve paid Sikander Raza some money last year and brought him back to the motherland. It’s obvious he was good enough to play for us. Same with Imran Tahir. Two sons of Pakistan who came back for revenge and got it.

Should’ve just met him and invited him back to the team starting 2020-2021.

 

[Major]

no we are not lol

just so you know England lost to Ireland.

 

[Major]

Should’ve paid Sikander Raza some money last year and brought him back to the motherland. It’s obvious he was good enough to play for us. Same with Imran Tahir. Two sons of Pakistan who came back for revenge and got it.

Should’ve just met him and invited him back to the team starting 2020-2021.

no he is not good enough. His performances look good with Zimbabwe but with a proper team he wont get in.

Simple example, his performance in psl

 

[Suleiman]

no he is not good enough. His performances look good with Zimbabwe but with a proper team he wont get in.

Simple example, his performance in psl

You’re right. That was a bit tongue in cheek, but it’s strange how the two Pakistanis who left Pak to play for South Africa and Zimbabwe, both had their highlight reel moments Vs us.

Imran Tahir had his in the UAE tests where we couldn’t beat SA at their peak and instead drew the series 1-1

 

[Major]

You’re right. That was a bit tongue in cheek, but it’s strange how the two Pakistanis who left Pak to play for South Africa and Zimbabwe, both had their highlight reel moments Vs us.

Imran Tahir had his in the UAE tests where we couldn’t beat SA at their peak and instead drew the series 1-1

We even allowed Marcus North to take 5 wickets against us.

But the Sikander thing, Shadab had a brainfade and opened the gates because Haider Ali sucks, and Shan was just a lucky wicket.

 

[asarkar]

T20 is a very cruel and unforgiving format. Sometimes, procrastination or a slide mistake can cost big time. Pakistan has just revived cricket. So I expect them to do better with time. The team is in dire need of good leadership, which is clearly missing.

 

[Sher Khan]

no we are not lol

just so you know England lost to Ireland.

That was due to the DL method. England had the momentum going for them with Moeen finding his range and no doubt England would have closed of the game.

 

[Kriketer]

No we are NOT a mediocre team. Recently we won the last series against a full strength NZ team. We had a cracking series which went down to 7th game against England. We made it to semi last year and lost because of that costly drop, played final of Asia Cup, we are 4th in T20 ranking, we have two top batsmen, we have a world class pace attack, we have consistenly started beating and challenging India again to restore the balance etc etc.

There are way too many positives than negatives, all of this Pakistan has achieved despite having a toothless middle order for a long while, and absolutely zero proper hitter since Umar Akmal and Afridi in this format and dull uninspiring coaches. Yes there are other issues like Babar's questionable captaincy, opening pair at times not excelling, not having a reliable all-rounder etc but despite all of this team has achieved much more than it has lost.

All this doom and gloom from fans is absolutely naive and idiotic. We need to avoid following footsteps of Indians fans and Indian media where a loss or crashing out of the tournemanet is as good as end of the world for them, but we have become the same with our knee jerk reactions. England also lost to Ireland, are they going through a soog? South Asian fan base are the worst one and most immature one of the lot. I have been an on and off visitor of this forum for a very long time and seen this usual cry to ends when team loses for a long time and bandwagoner fans will be back on cheering mode by next series/tournament after a cracking Pakistan performance. You can't be a true fan if you can't support and back your team when they are down.

 

[BaankeJi]

Because they lost two games on last balls in alien conditions?

 

[Stumper]

I also agree Pakistan is not a mediocre side, but saying a condition as alien is not true in today's technology time. Pak should have known what is in the store for them

 

[wrongun]

Team with some big flaws in SENA conditions.

Nawaz is a choker. Needs some sports psych work before he will get over these scars and make clear decisions about the right ball to bowl, right shots/way to approach a chase. That's if you persist with him.

Uncle Ifti- what is the point of him?

The opening partnership didn't work and improve their flaws, they regressed and highlighted their own weakness as a pair. I thought they'd be smart/selfless enough to realise at least one had to push just a little harder each innings. But they both got slower. Who will be able to get them humble enough to actually recognise and improve?

Bowling attack performed ok as individuals. Balance of the team needed to be different with an extra pacer or seam bowling allrounder. 3 spin allrounders in Oz is a doomed strategy at the best of times- let alone in the wettest summer on record (3rd wet summer in a row and literally record rainfalls all year, so no excuses for not realising this.)

Key bowling components good & young enough to be there in futute- Shaheen, Rauf, Naseem, Shadab, Wasim/Hasnain potentially.

Need: seam allrounder or another quality seamer/swing exponent. (replace Ifti)
High tempo opener.

Hope: haider kicks on or Fakhar regains form to be lower order slogger you need.

 

[AAli98]

Even a visually impaired can tell paks issue is tuk tuking.. likes of Masood want to muster up 20/30 so they can get next match.

Selection criteria should be S/R in 1st class cricket

Tests minimum 40
Odis minimum 90
T20s minimum 130

 

[Snatch]

No we are NOT a mediocre team. Recently we won the last series against a full strength NZ team.

Well You're totally wrong even with your very first sentence. That was not a full strength NZ side that Pakistan played in NZ.

 

[IAJ]

As a supporter you always support your team no matter what, you just need to adjust to the situation. Even if we one day have to compete with Germany or Italy we will adjust to that level

Anyways the biggest problem I see with this team is lack of cricketing intelligence, both from batsmen and bowlers. Especially when bowlers let you down you get disappointed because our batsmen are mostly poor.

The bowlers need to learn much quicker and I don't understand what the bowling coach is doing. Both Afridi and Naseem were searching for swing and bowling full on a bith where you just needed to bowl a bit shorter length.
Why didn't Afridi understand this after first couple of balls? And what was Naseem thinking watching first over, he didn't learn either. Either the bowling coach is plain stupid or the bowlers are not listning to him. Allthough we restricted them 129, the first 3 overs were really bad and those runs were costly.

Batsmen, actually no hope for them lol. On these wickets against tall bowlers the little openers will always struggle, especially Rizwan. He might be street smart, but he doesn't have proper batting technique and you clearly see that from these two matches.

When Shadab and Shan were batting I thought this would be an easy win, but again no one took the responsibility to finish it off. Shadab hit Raza for a straight six and instead of taking single next ball he went for glory again and then the second collapse started.

You have seen both SL and India get to a good total even though they lose 5 wickets quickly, but with Pakistan that seldom happens.

 

[MHN1293]

Well You're totally wrong even with your very first sentence. That was not a full strength NZ side that Pakistan played in NZ.

Really? Who were they missing except fergusion perhaps. We too were missing fakhar and shaheen

 

[SM1989]

Because they lost two games on last balls in alien conditions?

Losing to Zimbabwe is unacceptable. Therefore they are indeed a mediocre side. They may punch above their weight every now and then but overall are mediocre.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

We even allowed Marcus North to take 5 wickets against us.

But the Sikander thing, Shadab had a brainfade and opened the gates because Haider Ali sucks, and Shan was just a lucky wicket.

If everything was luck, why did we lose ?

 

[arunpsm]

What I have observed in world events is first 1 or 2 games Pak mandatorily performs badly, gets kicked by all Kircut Experts and sundry, then they play very well, especially you can bet that next game Bobby is going to be a monster. But that intensity is lost after just one match and they fall by the way side.

My point is Pak is not self driven unit, they need constant push to perform.

 

[Energy]

There are two issues which are interrelated. Talunt and lack of education.

Talunt needs to be properly nurtured to become talent. That won't happen and ain't happening.

Lacking common sense and having a low general IQ. That's not going to change as well.

Danday uraa do ie bowl half volleys. Chakkay maar do ie cow corner slogs. That's all these guys know.

Therefore we will always carry our limitations into every match and then hope some day it works, most days it won't.

 

[Afzal_K]

Australian conditions are the least favorable conditions for Pakistan. Probably will compete better in other places. UAE, other subcontinent countries. SA might be a bit of challenge with full strength sides.

Australia is the place which differentiates between a man and a child. I was waiitng for Pak to play here and sadly, as they say "inki ***** mein dum nhain hain"

 

[proud_pakistani]

Fact is the UAE has masked our deficiencies for a while and we have had the odd flukey win here and there which has still made us think we are a good team but we really arent. Its a batsmans game these days, if ur batsmen cant be ur strength u will overall struggle more often than not.

 

[GreenBee]

Playing weak sides so often and players amassing stellar record against those sides has given Pakistani fans a false sense of being world beaters tbh, specially in T20s where most sides don't take bilateral cricket seriously at all.

I would love to see Pakistan being competitive in Tests and ODIs again for a change. Satisfaction with T20 circus will only keep the side mediocre.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Without reverse swing, Pakistan's strength as a side was always a bit inflated across formats .

Once they started going after bowling actions as well, Pakistan were in a terrible state around 2015.

This team, for all its faults, is a lot better than what it was then. Thing is even minnows have improved and are using data-driven strategies to target weaknesses etc.

Its no longer easy to beat anyone especially in T20s.

 

[Barragan]

No, it isn't a mediocre side.

Captaincy, lack of thinking from the management and bad selections is letting Pak down.

It is absolutely criminal to let Zim get 130, when they were 97/7 - how do you explain that?

haider has constantly failed, but keeps getting persisted with and you could have easily selected Azam Khan, whom had a great CPL and was the in form batsman.

An unfit Shaheen has been playing, despite having Hasnain who has had massive success in Aus and bowls at 145 clicks.

Hasnain struggles at the end, but he has been phenomenal upfront and would have done a far superior job than Shaheen with the new ball.

 

[Titan24]

So conclusion came after an upset?

Pak has been a mid tier/table team for sometime and I still stick by that rank and ICC rankings also kind of put Pakistan in the same light. With some of the current lot guys like Shaheen, Babar etc going ahead in their careers there will likely be an opportunity for Pakistan to go into top 3 however, how ready these star players are when opportunity comes in will define their and team's fortunes.

In T20Is the approach leaves a lot to be desired. Its also a fact that there is lack of quality batting talent available currently but, that doesn't justify the intent and approach with which Pak sometimes bats by going completely into the shell irrespective of the opposition. Even Ireland with much more limited batting resources and setup plays with intent more consistently then Pakistan when it comes to the batting. So something needs to be looked into there as more than the batting potential its the lack of perspective in batting which is the main culprit.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

No, it isn't a mediocre side.

Captaincy, lack of thinking from the management and bad selections is letting Pak down.

It is absolutely criminal to let Zim get 130, when they were 97/7 - how do you explain that?

haider has constantly failed, but keeps getting persisted with and you could have easily selected Azam Khan, whom had a great CPL and was the in form batsman.

An unfit Shaheen has been playing, despite having Hasnain who has had massive success in Aus and bowls at 145 clicks.

Hasnain struggles at the end, but he has been phenomenal upfront and would have done a far superior job than Shaheen with the new ball.

So the criminal thing is letting a side reach 130 from 97/7 but its NOT criminal to lose requiring 3 off 3 balls chasing 130?

Why are the batsmen playing then?

Might as well pack the team with bowlers and enjoy the game.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

So conclusion came after an upset?

Pak has been a mid tier/table team for sometime and I still stick by that rank and ICC rankings also kind of put Pakistan in the same light. With some of the current lot guys like Shaheen, Babar etc going ahead in their careers there will likely be an opportunity for Pakistan to go into top 3 however, how ready these star players are when opportunity comes in will define their and team's fortunes.

In T20Is the approach leaves a lot to be desired. Its also a fact that there is lack of quality batting talent available currently but, that doesn't justify the intent and approach with which Pak sometimes bats by going completely into the shell irrespective of the opposition. Even Ireland with much more limited batting resources and setup plays with intent more consistently then Pakistan when it comes to the batting. So something needs to be looked into there as more than the batting potential its the lack of perspective in batting which is the main culprit.

Everyone was complaining about RizBar approach since time immemorial.

I am just glad it took 2 awful defeats in the World Cup to realize that its just not the middle order who is to blame for all this mess.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

No we are NOT a mediocre team. Recently we won the last series against a full strength NZ team. We had a cracking series which went down to 7th game against England. We made it to semi last year and lost because of that costly drop, played final of Asia Cup, we are 4th in T20 ranking, we have two top batsmen, we have a world class pace attack, we have consistenly started beating and challenging India again to restore the balance etc etc.

There are way too many positives than negatives, all of this Pakistan has achieved despite having a toothless middle order for a long while, and absolutely zero proper hitter since Umar Akmal and Afridi in this format and dull uninspiring coaches. Yes there are other issues like Babar's questionable captaincy, opening pair at times not excelling, not having a reliable all-rounder etc but despite all of this team has achieved much more than it has lost.

All this doom and gloom from fans is absolutely naive and idiotic. We need to avoid following footsteps of Indians fans and Indian media where a loss or crashing out of the tournemanet is as good as end of the world for them, but we have become the same with our knee jerk reactions. England also lost to Ireland, are they going through a soog? South Asian fan base are the worst one and most immature one of the lot. I have been an on and off visitor of this forum for a very long time and seen this usual cry to ends when team loses for a long time and bandwagoner fans will be back on cheering mode by next series/tournament after a cracking Pakistan performance. You can't be a true fan if you can't support and back your team when they are down.

Terrible post. Wake up. We are genuinely a minnow batting side or worse in all formats. Our bowling is vastly overrated and fielding no point mentioning. We have no mental strength or fortitude to speak of. A disgrace to the warrior spirit of Pakistan cricket up to 2017. Sarfraz seems like a genius compared to the selfish and cowardly Babar.

 

[Mamoon]

I have been saying this for years but people are not willing to accept the reality - Pakistan is a deeply mediocre side and nothing will change.

Our cricket culture is rotten to the core. All our stakeholders: the players, management, fans and ex-players don’t know the first thing about cricket.

We are the most intellectually bankrupt cricket nation in the world who doesn’t have a clue about fostering a high performance environment that can produce world class players and ergo, world class teams.

Pakistan relies on flukes to beat superior opposition and this is why it is unable to sustain success.

However, this should not discourage fans from supporting the team. Not everyone sporting team is meant to be one of the best and win accolades.

Some of the most intensely supported sporting teams in the world are not successful. Besides, success is relative - the criteria of success changes based on the capacity of the team.

Pakistan’s biggest problem is not the lack of talent, skills and mental application - the biggest problem is the level of delusion that resides among the fans.

Not a single Pakistani player is half as good as the fans think. When you expect great things from average people, there is no point in blaming the players. Blame your lofty expectations.

There is only one solution to Pakistani fans misery - lower expectations instead of demanding the players to raise their standards which is not possible.

 

[Kriketer]

Everyone was complaining about RizBar approach since time immemorial.

I am just glad it took 2 awful defeats in the World Cup to realize that its just not the middle order who is to blame for all this mess.

But RizBar fail to click at all. You guys had a case that they were only batting for their averages and taking all the time with slow SR. Now they both got out quick and team still failed, so what approach (excuse) is it this time with you guys?

Majority of wins we have gotten in the past 2 years are mostly due to openers contribution. Without them it would have been a complete sh**show with such a toothless middle order

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistan is not a mediocre side. Infact its better than India in T20Is in conditions like Australia.

Problem is that the captain wants cushion for himself and therefore opens. If he moves down, the middle order will stabilize.

Shan Masood should open with another opener(Fakhar? Sharjeel?)

Babar at 3.

Rizwan has issues with the moving ball, he has to come down, at 4.

This stabilizes the batting order.

Bowling is sorted. They will not allow teams to score more than 160 on 8 out of 10 ocassions in Australia.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

But RizBar fail to click at all. You guys had a case that they were only batting for their averages and taking all the time with slow SR. Now they both got out quick and team still failed, so what approach (excuse) is it this time with you guys?

Majority of wins we have gotten in the past 2 years are mostly due to openers contribution. Without them it would have been a complete sh**show with such a toothless middle order

Rizbar issues

1. Play slow and hog up all the overs and ask the middle order to hit at 12 an over to win or set target.

2. Get out in crucial matches and ask why middle order cant perform every once in a while.

EVERY chase Rizbar have managed to achieve against Dala and Willey have been their C teams

Pakistan ranks very high in T20 because other teams simply DONT send their top teams to bilaterals and dont care for T20 except World Cup.

We are a middling team.

Better to accept.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Rizbar issues

1. Play slow and hog up all the overs and ask the middle order to hit at 12 an over to win or set target.

2. Get out in crucial matches and ask why middle order cant perform every once in a while.

EVERY chase Rizbar have managed to achieve against Dala and Willey have been their C teams

Pakistan ranks very high in T20 because other teams simply DONT send their top teams to bilaterals and dont care for T20 except World Cup.

We are a middling team.

Better to accept.

Good post but middling is being kind.

This is the worst Pakistan team in ALL formats in history.

 

[PakPremi]

[MENTION=4924]Kriketer[/MENTION] top post, you should write more often to lift the doom & gloom spread by forum aunties in agony all the time, even when Pakistan perform in a game, they will find excuses to mark it down.

 

[Kriketer]

Terrible post. Wake up. We are genuinely a minnow batting side or worse in all formats. Our bowling is vastly overrated and fielding no point mentioning. We have no mental strength or fortitude to speak of. A disgrace to the warrior spirit of Pakistan cricket up to 2017. Sarfraz seems like a genius compared to the selfish and cowardly Babar.

If we are a minnow batting side then let's talk about recent games, how did we win in NZ? How did we take it to the last game against England in 7 match series? How did we make it to semi last year? How did we continue beating/challenging India after CT17? There are obvious flaws but Pakistan hasn't been as toothless as people make it out to be when they lose.

And what warrior spirit up to 2017? Only tournament to speak of was CT17, other than that after Inzi-Yosuf-Yonus era it was quite a disappointing run (other than 09 T20) where team used to lose more than win. Yes fielding has been disappointing, Babar captaincy has been questionable etc etc so there are obvious flaws but the way fans are depicting Pakistani team is unfair and typical knee jerk reaction after a disappointing loss... built in our cultures as Indians and Bangladeshi respond in similar fist out bulldoz everyone burn it all down childish fashion.

We should be thankful that we have a batsman like Babar, a one in a generation batsman who is topping ranking in all three formats. Our fans are such an unthankful bunch when they behave like this. You can just read this long post from Mammu, best person to give you the best knee jerk reaction who takes out his daily frustrations here and blames it on anything and everything related to Pakistan. Guy goes missing when the team wins, and shows up cheering when the team loses.

 

[Jabo]

this is the truth for the last 10 years

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

We need a better performance metric to judge our team’s performances. I’d take a team that has 6 batters who can score at a strike rate of 150 with the averages of 30+ over batters who can score at sr 120 and average of 40+. We are not going to take our wickets into our next game. If you can’t hit the ground running straight away then you better get out trying instead of playing dot balls and wasting the power play. I don’t care if we have to drop even Babar or Rizwan to implement that strategy. Tough decisions will have to be taken.

 

[Usman Chadda]

People are still not talking about one very important aspect of this failure, rather for every Australian tour failure - adapting to conditions.

We had played four T20Is before this World Cup in Australia in 13-14 years, that’s an absolute joke. In comparison, look at the number of games India and Sri Lanka have played.

PCB is to blame for this disaster more so than the players or team management. India is investing heavily on preparing it’s players for foreign conditions, yet they struggle sometimes. What do Pakistan intend to achieve by thrusting their players in these conditions without prior experience?

 

[GLORY OF '92]

People are still not talking about one very important aspect of this failure, rather for every Australian tour failure - adapting to conditions.

We had played four T20Is before this World Cup in Australia in 13-14 years, that’s an absolute joke. In comparison, look at the number of games India and Sri Lanka have played.

PCB is to blame for this disaster more so than the players or team management. India is investing heavily on preparing it’s players for foreign conditions, yet they struggle sometimes. What do Pakistan intend to achieve by thrusting their players in these conditions without prior experience?

India is a progressing nation. We are a country on the verge of perpetual collapse and even more so now. There is no comparison.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Pakistan is a mid-tier team in all formats, can pakistan perform above the limited ability / talent pool they have got? Yes they csn.

Are they doing that right now? No

Why arent they?

- Ultra defensive and clueless captain. Inept in the field / game plans and mindset
- Poor chief selector in Mo wasim who holds grudges with certain players, makes weird unjustified selections and doesnt have guts to drop failing seniors and move on
- coach Saqi is more of a cheer leader then any sort of tactical coach, nor is he improving the players
- Rameez Raja then sticking his nose in demanding certain pitches and players

when you have 4 people in the most important positions in pakistani cricket and all 4 being clueless its no shock pakistan is playing dull, unimaginative, negative cricket.

The embarrassment wont end here, same will happen in the 50 over world cup and home test series vs England and NZ with these 4 guys in charge.

 

[Stumper]

Amla also did topped the rankings, but he was a player with zero impact, I keep Babar in same category. He is a very good player but as Pakistan is deprived of batting greats it's worth the gold, but then around him you should have players of ABD, Faf, Morris, Decock Calibre to win matches

 

[Barragan]

So the criminal thing is letting a side reach 130 from 97/7 but its NOT criminal to lose requiring 3 off 3 balls chasing 130?

Why are the batsmen playing then?

Might as well pack the team with bowlers and enjoy the game.

It is a reoccurring theme of having the opposition down for plenty, then not capitalising and letting them get to a good total.

We've seen it against SL, Eng, Ind and now even a minnow team is doing it.

The batting line up will no doubt change after the WC, however the issue of having the opposition on the ropes and letting them get away isn't going to go away.

 

[Buffet]

Team with some big flaws in SENA conditions.

Nawaz is a choker. Needs some sports psych work before he will get over these scars and make clear decisions about the right ball to bowl, right shots/way to approach a chase. That's if you persist with him.

Uncle Ifti- what is the point of him?

The opening partnership didn't work and improve their flaws, they regressed and highlighted their own weakness as a pair. I thought they'd be smart/selfless enough to realise at least one had to push just a little harder each innings. But they both got slower. Who will be able to get them humble enough to actually recognise and improve?

Bowling attack performed ok as individuals. Balance of the team needed to be different with an extra pacer or seam bowling allrounder. 3 spin allrounders in Oz is a doomed strategy at the best of times- let alone in the wettest summer on record (3rd wet summer in a row and literally record rainfalls all year, so no excuses for not realising this.)

Key bowling components good & young enough to be there in futute- Shaheen, Rauf, Naseem, Shadab, Wasim/Hasnain potentially.

Need: seam allrounder or another quality seamer/swing exponent. (replace Ifti)
High tempo opener.

Hope: haider kicks on or Fakhar regains form to be lower order slogger you need.

It's surprising given both of them have a secure spot in team. One of them can play more aggressively or simply play at a different position.

 

[Usman Chadda]

It's surprising given both of them have a secure spot in team. One of them can play more aggressively or simply play at a different position.

It’s not that they don’t want to, they just don’t have the ability to take bowlers on in these conditions. It’s quite clear they are struggling with the pace and bounce.

 

[Buffet]

It’s not that they don’t want to, they just don’t have the ability to take bowlers on in these conditions. It’s quite clear they are struggling with the pace and bounce.

I did not see the game, but my comment was not about just 2 games in Aus. General observation based on how these two bat.

Pakistan normally struggles against bounce, but I won't read too much here. Both losses were close one and Pakistan should have won both games. If results were flipped then we wouldn't have seen all this doom and gloom threads. Pakistan just choked in 2 subsequent games. Other two teams did not play that well.

 

[hitthestump]

Everyone was complaining about RizBar approach since time immemorial.

I am just glad it took 2 awful defeats in the World Cup to realize that its just not the middle order who is to blame for all this mess.

Shan Masood did the same job that RizBab do, only 10-15 runs worse. His runs were crucial in both matches even being contests at all.

We saw twice that if RizBab fail, the team doesn't win.

You can find narratives to suit your own agenda but you only look foolish in the process.

 

[Gayle_Force]

Pakistan’s team is basically 5-6 players and the rest are fillers. You can’t consistently win games with just 5-6 players playing well.

 

[dravidthewall]

I have been saying this for years but people are not willing to accept the reality - Pakistan is a deeply mediocre side and nothing will change.

Our cricket culture is rotten to the core. All our stakeholders: the players, management, fans and ex-players don’t know the first thing about cricket.

We are the most intellectually bankrupt cricket nation in the world who doesn’t have a clue about fostering a high performance environment that can produce world class players and ergo, world class teams.

Pakistan relies on flukes to beat superior opposition and this is why it is unable to sustain success.

However, this should not discourage fans from supporting the team. Not everyone sporting team is meant to be one of the best and win accolades.

Some of the most intensely supported sporting teams in the world are not successful. Besides, success is relative - the criteria of success changes based on the capacity of the team.

Pakistan’s biggest problem is not the lack of talent, skills and mental application - the biggest problem is the level of delusion that resides among the fans.

Not a single Pakistani player is half as good as the fans think. When you expect great things from average people, there is no point in blaming the players. Blame your lofty expectations.

There is only one solution to Pakistani fans misery - lower expectations instead of demanding the players to raise their standards which is not possible.

Pakistan players are scare too much to loose their place in the team ,that's why they first look to score their individual runs. Later they try for win.This is the reason they don't play like unity and loose some matches. Yesterday Babar and rizwan wasted too much delivery to get settle and score themself. In this process they lost their wicket and pressure built up. Management should give as many as chances to players to perform them . Sacking is not a sollution. Take out the fear from players and they will perform.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

People are still not talking about one very important aspect of this failure, rather for every Australian tour failure - adapting to conditions.

We had played four T20Is before this World Cup in Australia in 13-14 years, that’s an absolute joke. In comparison, look at the number of games India and Sri Lanka have played.

PCB is to blame for this disaster more so than the players or team management. India is investing heavily on preparing it’s players for foreign conditions, yet they struggle sometimes. What do Pakistan intend to achieve by thrusting their players in these conditions without prior experience?

That still doesn't explain how Zimbabwe beat Pakistan and Ireland beat England in Australian conditions. They haven't played a lot of cricket here.

SL won all their first 5 T20's on Australian soil without any prior experience.

I think it's just a lack of batting ability. With current set of batters, PAK may play 10 T20I's a year in OZ and they might flop in all of them.

 

[Local.Dada]

Pakistan is not a mediocre side. It’s a good side with some very fine talents .

It’s just one game, upsets happen.

 

[PakPremi]

Pakistan is not a mediocre side. It’s a good side with some very fine talents .

It’s just one game, upsets happen.

Exactly, same side gave a tough examination to India who play well in Australia.
Also same team beat NZ in final who beat Australia just now.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan has overachieved vs India over the last 12 months. That 10 wicket fluke in Dubai in the World T20 last year has had a psychological impact on the Indian team.

They have underperformed against Pakistan throughout the last 12 months. Pakistan have become their bogey team of sorts.

Before the World T20 2021, Indian players had no fear of failure against Pakistan but that fluke was a big shocker for them. They have developed a fear of failure.

Shaheen was bowling harmless deliveries to Rohit and Rahul at the MCG and they were playing cautiously because they were playing his reputation.

Kohli’s GOAT knock at the MCG and they way Pakistan collapsed under pressure would help Indian players regain their composure against Pakistan and you can expect them to start thrashing Pakistan left, right and center again.

 

[TheSultan]

Kohli’s GOAT knock at the MCG and they way Pakistan collapsed under pressure would help Indian players regain their composure against Pakistan and you can expect them to start thrashing Pakistan left, right and center again.

Was it a GOAT knock or Pakistan collapsed under pressure? It’s one or the other.

If Pakistan collapsed under pressure then Kohli benefitted from it and it reduced the greatness of the innings.

If it was a GOAT knock then no blame on Pakistan for losing as they were up against the GOAT knock.

Obv the answer is somewhere in between. It was a great knock (no GOAT) and bit of a bottle job on behalf of Pak.

You make some decent points and I do agree that they played Shaheen on reputation - but that’s because he owned them last time.

Less of the theatrics - keep it real

 

[Major]

If everything was luck, why did we lose ?

You seriously gonna say a bowler with an avg of 40 is good and better than us?

 

[Local.Dada]

You seriously gonna say a bowler with an avg of 40 is good and better than us?

Doesn’t work that way. If he his having a good day and in rhythm why not? It’s not like minnow teams haven’t got out Sachin, Lara etc.

 

[Kianig89]

Yes Pakistan are a mediocre team but 5-7 years back they had become a low level team alot of positives after that ended Australian streak of losing test matches against them dgood summer tours of Eng won the Champions Trophy developed some top players like Babar Shadab and Shaheen got international cricket back home which accelerated our development still feel making Babar the skipper specially in this Micky mouse format was a blunder Sarfraz was ok for this format

 

[kingusama92]

I don't think they're mediocre.

A lot of these problems are self-inflicted or amplified due to personnel decisions.

The bowling attack is excellent and has depth. The wicket-keeping is good with Rizwan being able to bat well too.

They have two issues - a lack of positivity and a weak middle order.

These issues are intertwined because they remain in a shell due to the average batting quality throughout the lineup.

It will take time but the best way to resolve this is to push one or both of RizBar down the lineup and bring in specialist openers that get to play in the position they train for domestically. Fakhar is likely one of them. This will strengthen the top 4.

Right now too much focus is on the openers. They can win but the strategy becomes do or die when they're out of form or get out early.

 

[Major]

Doesn’t work that way. If he his having a good day and in rhythm why not? It’s not like minnow teams haven’t got out Sachin, Lara etc.

what rhythm? Not a single deliverry on which he got a wicket was a ball.

Shadab gave his wicket away. Haider ALi got out to a ball that was a nothing of a delivery. Shan got stumped on a leg side wide

 

[Ami]

Pakistan has always been a mediocre side.

They were a pretty good in the late 80s to the end of 1999 world cup. After that, they just deteriorated badly as the main players headed towards a natural decline.

There was a short passge when they were a passable side...that's about it

I don't honestly think too many on this forum think otherwise.

However, some posters just like to hammer the point needlesly to what has always been obvious.

As for me, ever since the days of IK in the early 80s, a home series against India, they've always been the 'best' even when they've been crap, which is most of the time!

But, hey ho, after all that, Pakistan Zindabad! ...Bring on the next 3 games, and let's win the World Cup.

Why not.

 

[Minnowbasher]

Knee jerk as expected. Pakistani fans don't learn. Imagine we beat India which we came very close to doing all the threads would be talking about how Pakistan has overtaken India. Now suddenly we lose to minnows which happens in T20 cricket and we are the worst side in the world?

The reality is we a mid tier team who will occasionally punch above our weight and beat good teams.

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

Decent 5th ranked side as they have always been over the last 2 decades. Can never write them off in tournaments, they can lose against Zimbabwe and beat Australia on their day. Very poor in handling in pressure. They never win convincingly against sides like Afghanistan. Have recently upped their performance against India though.

 

[SalimBhai]

Over reaction. Pakistan is a decent team. Great bowling decent opening, terrible middle order and management

 

[dildilpak]

Probably a knee jerk reaction to call Pak team mediocre- especially when you have batsmen like Babar & Rizwan & one of the best bowling attacks in the world. If anything, Pak is the most mercurial team in world cricket, you just don’t know which one will turn up on a given day!

Problem is our over-reliance on our opening pair & our chronic under confidence which leads us to panic horribly when the chips are down. They really need some mental conditioning camp of sorts to toughen up.

 

[Saj]

3 words missing in the thread title are........in all formats.

We don't produce many world class cricketers these days and that reflects on our performances in all formats which are at best, average.

 

[ZafarKhan2022]

1. We're missing quality coaching at the grassroots level because there's no institution producing sports coaches in Pakistan as far as I know.

2. The class of kids in Pakistan who can afford REAL cricket bats and equipment to play REAL cricket don't aspire to become professional cricketers. They aspire to go to a university abroad and a white collar career.

3. The class of kids in Pakistan who aspire to become professional cricketers only have the resources to play tape ball cricket.

 

[Caved12]

Our team is still in a rebuilding phase, yet we have been punching way above our weight because we happen to have the best bowling attack in the world. With correct approach and better chief selector, we can always do better than what we have done in this on going tournament. The problem is that Babar and Rizwan listened to the posters here and ex cricket players and totally got confused with the approach that they should have taken in this world cup. They were in two minds and completely forgot to do what has worked for them so far. Also law of avergages kicked in for both of them. If shaheen was 100%, there was no way India was winning that first match.
Fakhar could have resolved some of our middle order problems. We should have picked better players in place of Asif and Haider.

 

[wrongun]

I did not see the game, but my comment was not about just 2 games in Aus. General observation based on how these two bat.

Pakistan normally struggles against bounce, but I won't read too much here. Both losses were close one and Pakistan should have won both games. If results were flipped then we wouldn't have seen all this doom and gloom threads. Pakistan just choked in 2 subsequent games. Other two teams did not play that well.

You can say the "close loss", "team progress" stuff about bilaterals. But WC's are all about winning and losing. This is IT. And they lost.

 

[dildilpak]

Our team is still in a rebuilding phase, yet we have been punching way above our weight because we happen to have the best bowling attack in the world. With correct approach and better chief selector, we can always do better than what we have done in this on going tournament. The problem is that Babar and Rizwan listened to the posters here and ex cricket players and totally got confused with the approach that they should have taken in this world cup. They were in two minds and completely forgot to do what has worked for them so far. Also law of avergages kicked in for both of them. If shaheen was 100%, there was no way India was winning that first match.
Fakhar could have resolved some of our middle order problems. We should have picked better players in place of Asif and Haider.

Well, India also didn’t have Bumrah. They can also argue that had Bumrah been bowling on that day, Pak could have never scored 160 runs. Shaheen being rushed back into the team without being match fit is totally on the team management - they should have assessed him in the nets & given Hasnain or Dhani a chance.

And honestly we have been in rebuilding phase since god knows when - mainly because we try some players, they fail & then we get new ones only to dump them & go back to the old ones. The cycle goes on & on and the rebuilding phase excuse cant cut it every time we fail in a WC.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Pakistan is a good team (not great because of batting and outdated approach/tactics) with probably the best T20 bowling attack in the world. Maybe the bowlers don't have killer instinct but all bases covered, quality is high.

Problem is they have choked too many winnable matches in recent times and with every such choke the fear of failure is only increasing, especially in finishing moments of the game.

Also not a good team for Australian pitches, Australia seems to bring the worst out of PCT. Batsmen are unable to cope with the pace and bounce on display, also a big mental block.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Also poor game awareness. The way the middle order collapsed against India going for big hits, Shadab and Nawaz going for glory shots last game, low IQ cricket.

Ability of bowlers is insane, but why did it take them 3 overs to judge the length to bowl against Zimbabwe in Perth? Had they not started that poorly maybe target would have been 100.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Record this year hasn't been particularly good for Pakistan.

 

[alone1213]

Pakistan's batting is absolutely garbage and the fact is that they can't play on these Australian pitches make it even worse.

Bowling is very good. All the bowlers are fast and they have got very goods skills as well.

In 2022 Pakistan's bowlers have bowled most numbers of 140kph balls. they have bowled over 40 percent of 140ks plus balls and no other team has even bowled more than 20 percent.
Pace always helps. Pace matters a lot.

In this world Shaheen is the only weak link in the side due to the injury. He should have Never been picked up in the first place. Team Management is absolutely awful and so is the chairman and chief selector. They all are awful.

Babar has to be kicked out of captaincy he is not good.

I m very very angry at this team. Most of the people are

It's just ridiculous losing to Zimbabwe is absolutely horrible at this grand stage.

 

[Suleiman]

Pakistan has overachieved vs India over the last 12 months. That 10 wicket fluke in Dubai in the World T20 last year has had a psychological impact on the Indian team.

They have underperformed against Pakistan throughout the last 12 months. Pakistan have become their bogey team of sorts.

Before the World T20 2021, Indian players had no fear of failure against Pakistan but that fluke was a big shocker for them. They have developed a fear of failure.

Shaheen was bowling harmless deliveries to Rohit and Rahul at the MCG and they were playing cautiously because they were playing his reputation.

Kohli’s GOAT knock at the MCG and they way Pakistan collapsed under pressure would help Indian players regain their composure against Pakistan and you can expect them to start thrashing Pakistan left, right and center again.

Noticed this too. 50% Shaheen got away with bowling half volleys that Rohit just defended away which deserved to get smashed for 4. Waqar and Wasim pointed this out as well.

Both Pak and India were trying to out-choke each other. Kohli was the deciding difference with the bat, he choked on the field too

 

[Usergame]

No they are a decent T20 team- main problem is batting is too reliant on Babar and Rizwan. These 2 are outstanding- but If they fail-whole team generally fails.
Their bowling is talented but Pakistani bowling has habit of choking. Even in the waqar/shoab/akram/saqlain days-Pakistani bowlers would give up when the going got tough.