Time to address the root cause of Pakistan's continual struggles in Australia: our home pitches !

[Markhor]

Amidst the hailstorm of criticism Pakistan is receiving from their T20 World Cup performances, very few fans or pundits are addressing the root cause of our shambolic performances in Australia which go back decades.

According to CricViz's data, Pakistani pitches have a bounce rating of 33% - comfortably the lowest in the world. It's considerably lower than other Asian countries such as UAE (45%) and Bangladesh (51%), and almost half of Australia's (63%).

https://www.cricviz.com/the-three-metrics-that-will-define-the-world-cup/

Despite PCB relaying the squares during offseason with help of Australian curators Rameez Raja personally hired, CricViz's data found the pitches for our ENG series were the lowest bouncing in T20I history ! Hardly ideal preparation for playing in Australia.

Anyone watching domestic cricket broadcasts can see the lack of carry on offer resulting in generally front-foot dominant batsmen who rarely develop back-foot strokeplay. It also means bowlers struggle to find the right length when touring Australia.

Is it any wonder we struggle to adapt to Australian conditions ?

 

[IAJ]

This issue should have been adressed decades ago.

 

[arif_2021]

If cannot produce pitches, then allow priority for pak players to play BBL in australia

esp batsmen

 

[topspin]

Amidst the hailstorm of criticism Pakistan is receiving from their T20 World Cup performances, very few fans or pundits are addressing the root cause of our shambolic performances in Australia which go back decades.

According to CricViz's data, Pakistani pitches have a bounce rating of 33% - comfortably the lowest in the world. It's considerably lower than other Asian countries such as UAE (45%) and Bangladesh (51%), and almost half of Australia's (63%).

https://www.cricviz.com/the-three-metrics-that-will-define-the-world-cup/

Despite PCB relaying the squares during offseason with help of Australian curators Rameez Raja personally hired, CricViz's data found the pitches for our ENG series were the lowest bouncing in T20I history ! Hardly ideal preparation for playing in Australia.

Anyone watching domestic cricket broadcasts can see the lack of carry on offer resulting in generally front-foot dominant batsmen who rarely develop back-foot strokeplay. It also means bowlers struggle to find the right length when touring Australia.

Is it any wonder we struggle to adapt to Australian conditions ?

OMG I didn't think our pitches were slower than UAE! Is this a recent trend or has this always been the case?

 

[topspin]

Pakistan desperately needs foreign expertise to rescue their cricket.

Our coaches and curators don't have a clue.

 

[emranabbas]

Always been bouncy tracks we figured it 10 years ago but nothing has been done about it

There had been talks about foreign tours for under 19's and replicating bouncy tracks in pakistan but nothing implemented.

 

[Mamoon]

We didn’t improve in Australia while playing our home matches in UAE for a decade.

The 45% bounce compared to the 33% that we have in Pakistan did not make a difference.

This is not the reason. In my opinion, the big crowds and cauldron like atmosphere in Australian stadiums intimidate our players.

 

[Markhor]

OMG I didn't think our pitches were slower than UAE! Is this a recent trend or has this always been the case?

Amir Sohail in a PP interview said there used to be more variety of surfaces and gave example of Gujranwala being a bouncy pitch. The proof's in the batsmen we see today and how few are comfortable off the backfoot.

It wasn't always like this. Here's a clip of Qasim Umar at the WACA in 1987, and look at those two cut shots. Tell me how many guys in our current lineup could take apart 6ft 8 Bruce Reid like this.

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We didn’t improve in Australia while playing our home matches in UAE for a decade.

The 45% bounce compared to the 33% that we have in Pakistan did not make a difference.

This is not the reason. In my opinion, the big crowds and cauldron like atmosphere in Australian stadiums intimidate our players.

Yep that doesn't help either, but Pakistan has a problem right across the Southern Hemisphere with whitewash Test defeats in SAF and NZL too.

We also even struggle in ENG, our best touring venue in SENA, on the bouncier pitches of Headingley and Old Trafford.

 

[Syed1]

90% of our home matches are in Karachi or Lahore and they are typical South Asian batting strips.

I wish we had more matches in other cities as well.... I think places like Faisalabad and Gujranwala offered better pace and bounce.


That being said you could import the pitches of Australia to Pakistan and still struggle to win a match in Australia if you place your bets on a dead horse like our current batting lineup.

 

[shah_1]

The average bounce get down due to Lahore pitches

Pinid and Karachi pitches are decent

 

[ElRaja]

just play more a tours to SA and Aus, alternate it every season, at least 6 or 7 games, its not hard, its just that pcb don't want to spend that money.

pak pitches will not change, they will always be dead and slow. pindi has seam movement but even that doesn't bounce much.

 

[Usman Chadda]

We need to play in other venues for the curators to have any chance of producing a good sporting wicket.

Unfortunately, Lahore and Karachi continue to produce rubbish wickets and we don’t even have the spinners to take advantage of home conditions anymore.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

It's been long established but nothing changed in 15 years

 

[Savak]

These have been the spiciest Aussie wickets in Perth in many years. The PCB blindly assumed that because this is an ICC tournament, the pitches won't be that tough to bat on.

 

[muqarrab]

Amidst the hailstorm of criticism Pakistan is receiving from their T20 World Cup performances, very few fans or pundits are addressing the root cause of our shambolic performances in Australia which go back decades.

According to CricViz's data, Pakistani pitches have a bounce rating of 33% - comfortably the lowest in the world. It's considerably lower than other Asian countries such as UAE (45%) and Bangladesh (51%), and almost half of Australia's (63%).

https://www.cricviz.com/the-three-metrics-that-will-define-the-world-cup/

Despite PCB relaying the squares during offseason with help of Australian curators Rameez Raja personally hired, CricViz's data found the pitches for our ENG series were the lowest bouncing in T20I history ! Hardly ideal preparation for playing in Australia.

Anyone watching domestic cricket broadcasts can see the lack of carry on offer resulting in generally front-foot dominant batsmen who rarely develop back-foot strokeplay. It also means bowlers struggle to find the right length when touring Australia.

Is it any wonder we struggle to adapt to Australian conditions ?

What a stupid post, every country needs to utilize home conditions when playing at home and prepare for conditions for tours, failure s one of prep not of home conditions. Why didn't babar and saqlain try combinations in eng series and nz tri-series? We have won series in Aus with the same pitched in pakistan. This is rameez-think, superficially sound argument that is hollow to the core.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

OMG I didn't think our pitches were slower than UAE! Is this a recent trend or has this always been the case?

The data is from 2010 onwards I think. Granted, the sample size is low since Pakistan started playing at home only recently but I don't think the pitches were much different earlier

 

[topspin]

The data is from 2010 onwards I think. Granted, the sample size is low since Pakistan started playing at home only recently but I don't think the pitches were much different earlier

They had more pace and bounce I reckon. Have you heard of this amazing city called Gujranwala?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Amidst the hailstorm of criticism Pakistan is receiving from their T20 World Cup performances, very few fans or pundits are addressing the root cause of our shambolic performances in Australia which go back decades.

According to CricViz's data, Pakistani pitches have a bounce rating of 33% - comfortably the lowest in the world. It's considerably lower than other Asian countries such as UAE (45%) and Bangladesh (51%), and almost half of Australia's (63%).

https://www.cricviz.com/the-three-metrics-that-will-define-the-world-cup/

Despite PCB relaying the squares during offseason with help of Australian curators Rameez Raja personally hired, CricViz's data found the pitches for our ENG series were the lowest bouncing in T20I history ! Hardly ideal preparation for playing in Australia.

Anyone watching domestic cricket broadcasts can see the lack of carry on offer resulting in generally front-foot dominant batsmen who rarely develop back-foot strokeplay. It also means bowlers struggle to find the right length when touring Australia.

Is it any wonder we struggle to adapt to Australian conditions ?

Don't agree.
We have the same pitches since 70 years now. And we have produced legendary cricketers from the same exact pitches (batsmen and bowlers) .
India has the same pitches - and they have a long list of producing legendary players - from the same pitches.

2 - Lack of a well organized school level cricket setup.
3 - Rampant corruption and dishonesty in our domestic cricket that is laced with grouping, politics and nepotism, and drugs/pedophilia.
4 - And then lack of actual coaching and training of the kids at school level, domestic level and national level by the people who have a record of making a difference to cope with the modern day fast paced cricket.

And the reason for the above is? The number ONE root cause?

Political and nepotism based appointments from the lowest of the lowest and highest of the highest level in PCB. It's THE MAJOR issue.

Whether it's a chai wala in the regional PCB cricket center in Peshawar or it's the head of PCB, there is not a single person who gets hired on merit, experience and a proven record of successful leadership skills or chai making skills.
The entire cricket board of 900+, is 100% full of incompetent employees.

If the board had the competent, honest and intelligent leadership, they would've used the resources to give a clear direction to the cricket by fixing the school level cricket, gut out the domestic cricket administration and placed extremely strict checks n balances in the domestic cricket to root out the filth of corruption and dishonesty.

Right now, the country stands at number 140 of the scale of honesty. So it's very, very hard to find honest people who are competent for their jobs and responsibilities.

You talk about pitches.
What's the big deal here?
I have talked about it my previous posts.
Get powdered form of marble and do a trial an error method of mixing it with the clay to make pitches till you refined the formula and know how much of hard mineral you need to have in the clay content of the pitch to make it pacey and bouncy on safe level?
Dubai has imported clay from different countries of the world to make pitches and simulate the playing environment in nets.

If an ordinary person like you and I can think of this, why can't those who get very highly paid to this job, think of it?
Dishonesty, incompetency and corruption is your answer.

 

[gazza619]

Last time i checked our team struggles on hime conditions as well

 

[TeymurBlake]

Pakistani pitches have needed revamping for decades.

Like the stadiums, they have also been rotting.

 

[Markhor]

What a stupid post, every country needs to utilize home conditions when playing at home and prepare for conditions for tours, failure s one of prep not of home conditions. Why didn't babar and saqlain try combinations in eng series and nz tri-series? We have won series in Aus with the same pitched in pakistan. This is rameez-think, superficially sound argument that is hollow to the core.

A friendly piece of advice - try to respect other views and read a post carefully before hyperventilating. Next time the advice won't be as friendly.

1) Nobody's saying deny ourselves home advantage. Only you are cooking this argument. Yes we must have venues catering to our strengths. However a look at cricketing history shows every top nation possessed a variety of venues - thus exposing their cricketers to different conditions.

AUS in their glory years had hard, bouncy venues at Perth and Brisbane, but Sydney would take turn, Melbourne and Adelaide were flat, and Hobart would offer lateral movement. SAF have quick, bouncy pitches in the Highveld, but more subcontinental style wickets at Port Elizabeth and Durban. IND today have good variety of venues with big turners like Nagpur, and more seam friendly grounds like Mohali and Dharamsala.

In PAK we see identikit, almost uniformly dull wickets which data shows offer lower bounce even by Asian standards !

How can young batters to develop a backfoot game, to play cuts or pulls, or pacers to hit right lengths on bouncy wickets ? Forget preparing for AUS tours, our domestic wickets are no preparation for international cricket.

2) In AUS the data (not my opinion) shows successful teams are those who can tackle high pace and the short ball - a PAK weakness that's partly explained above.

Therefore it's not "stupid" to view a meaningless 7-match T20I bilateral as ideal opportunity to produce some surfaces that slightly resembled AUS tracks, to rectify this weakness before a WC. Instead we got the lowest bouncing T20I pitches on record !

3) We've never won a Test series in AUS with the last win in 1995. We've won 4 Tests there in our entire history, one bilateral ODI series win, one tri-series win and until today's conquest of the mighty Dutch, no T20I wins either. So yes while Riz-Bab opening pair should've been split, and Abrar Ahmed debuted vs ENG, forgive me if I'm unconvinced a failure to try different players is the sole reason for 60 years of ineptitude in AUS.

 

[Markhor]

Don't agree.
We have the same pitches since 70 years now. And we have produced legendary cricketers from the same exact pitches (batsmen and bowlers) .
India has the same pitches - and they have a long list of producing legendary players - from the same pitches.

2 - Lack of a well organized school level cricket setup.
3 - Rampant corruption and dishonesty in our domestic cricket that is laced with grouping, politics and nepotism, and drugs/pedophilia.
4 - And then lack of actual coaching and training of the kids at school level, domestic level and national level by the people who have a record of making a difference to cope with the modern day fast paced cricket.

And the reason for the above is? The number ONE root cause?

Political and nepotism based appointments from the lowest of the lowest and highest of the highest level in PCB. It's THE MAJOR issue.

Whether it's a chai wala in the regional PCB cricket center in Peshawar or it's the head of PCB, there is not a single person who gets hired on merit, experience and a proven record of successful leadership skills or chai making skills.
The entire cricket board of 900+, is 100% full of incompetent employees.

If the board had the competent, honest and intelligent leadership, they would've used the resources to give a clear direction to the cricket by fixing the school level cricket, gut out the domestic cricket administration and placed extremely strict checks n balances in the domestic cricket to root out the filth of corruption and dishonesty.

Right now, the country stands at number 140 of the scale of honesty. So it's very, very hard to find honest people who are competent for their jobs and responsibilities.

You talk about pitches.
What's the big deal here?
I have talked about it my previous posts.
Get powdered form of marble and do a trial an error method of mixing it with the clay to make pitches till you refined the formula and know how much of hard mineral you need to have in the clay content of the pitch to make it pacey and bouncy on safe level?
Dubai has imported clay from different countries of the world to make pitches and simulate the playing environment in nets.

If an ordinary person like you and I can think of this, why can't those who get very highly paid to this job, think of it?
Dishonesty, incompetency and corruption is your answer.

[MENTION=151861]Colorblind Genius[/MENTION] I respect your opinion given your experience of playing domestic cricket and for coming out with a harrowing story about coach abuse.

However the bolded is massive, massive misconception. Our greats have little to thank our domestic system for, and owe a greater deal to the finishing school that was English County Cricket. It also exposed them to different surfaces, and learn under the tutelage of the world's best players. It's no coincidence the quality of cricketers Pakistan, and West Indies for that matter, have produced has nosedived since English Counties reduced the numbers of overseas players.

Secondly, Indian pitches are nothing like Pakistani pitches. Again the data, not my opinion, shows India's pitches on average have significantly more bounce than Pakistan's. As stated above India has a good variety of venues with big turners like Nagpur and more seam friendly tracks like Mohali. Our pitches don't deteriorate like India's or Sri Lanka's, they become deader and slower.

Politics and nepotism is obviously a problem but not relevant here since the topic is Pakistan's record in Australia.

 

[Bewal Express]

Amidst the hailstorm of criticism Pakistan is receiving from their T20 World Cup performances, very few fans or pundits are addressing the root cause of our shambolic performances in Australia which go back decades.

According to CricViz's data, Pakistani pitches have a bounce rating of 33% - comfortably the lowest in the world. It's considerably lower than other Asian countries such as UAE (45%) and Bangladesh (51%), and almost half of Australia's (63%).

https://www.cricviz.com/the-three-metrics-that-will-define-the-world-cup/

Despite PCB relaying the squares during offseason with help of Australian curators Rameez Raja personally hired, CricViz's data found the pitches for our ENG series were the lowest bouncing in T20I history ! Hardly ideal preparation for playing in Australia.

Anyone watching domestic cricket broadcasts can see the lack of carry on offer resulting in generally front-foot dominant batsmen who rarely develop back-foot strokeplay. It also means bowlers struggle to find the right length when touring Australia.

Is it any wonder we struggle to adapt to Australian conditions ?

Maybe it's the PK heat that drains the moisture from the pitches. It's been an issue for decades and as we havent solved it for decades, it's fair to assume that it is beyond our technical capabilities. And even if we solve that issue the players coming through will struggle as they would be brought up on low slow wickets. This is one problem that can't be solved

 

[asfandyar]

In addition, adopt a country-first approach instead of a player-first approach. That means it is ok to include a player once and drop him forever if he fails to impress. It also means it is ok to rotate players, including big names. Losing a few matches in an inconsequential series is better than being humiliated at the biggest stage.

Fail fast and learn from your mistakes. Focus on matches you lose, not matches you win. The most hurting thing about this knockout was that literally everyone saw it coming, and we let a few fluke performances cloud our judgement.

 

[Kianig89]

If PCB has the bolls then leave some grass on wickets for Eng Tests

Anderson and Co. Will eat them alive

Pakistan batsmen have no technique and footwork require to succeed at top level,they are either fisherman with static footwork or hacks with zero technique

Taufeeq Umar, Imran Farhat, Hafeez, Khurram Manzoor, Ahmed Shehzad, Umer Akmal, Shoaib Malik, Fawad Alam

 

[Sarwar89]

That is why it was so important to win last year’s T20 world cup in Dubai. That hasan ali catch & choke is now turning out to be so crucial, it is evident that Pakistan can not win world cup in Australia South Africa and Nzl.

Last year was rare opportunity and it was missed. Now focus shall be on sub continent again as next world cup is in india.

 

[Mirpur express]

If cannot produce pitches, then allow priority for pak players to play BBL in australia

esp batsmen

Thats if the Aussie franchises consider any Pakistani batter.. Malik’s struggles in bbl have put them off

 

[Mirpur express]

In addition, adopt a country-first approach instead of a player-first approach. That means it is ok to include a player once and drop him forever if he fails to impress. It also means it is ok to rotate players, including big names. Losing a few matches in an inconsequential series is better than being humiliated at the biggest stage.

Fail fast and learn from your mistakes. Focus on matches you lose, not matches you win. The most hurting thing about this knockout was that literally everyone saw it coming, and we let a few fluke performances cloud our judgement.

Agreed , we have this mentality of sticking to the “winning formula” which has hurt us badly , Indians have had 2 teams in white ball cricket for a while now & we send a full strength team to Holland

 

[Runner Up]

Try drop in pitches like Australia is doing in world cup.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Pakistan domestic cricket is a joke , in 4 days we only got 305 overs in pindi.


The over rate was less than 13 despite spinners like abrar bowling a lot of overs. The over rate should be close to 15. There is a big lack of competitiveness in domestic cricket , today sindh could have given chase of 250 in 70 overs but chose to give a target of 300 in less than 50 overs.

Our domestic players just play for numbers instead of winning. The umpiring was atrocious as usual and for only 6 teams you would think that there would be proper fast bowlers but CP opening bowler was amir yamin.

They need to give a about domestic cricket standards first. The players are not pushed to the limits and we see poor unfinished products even if they score in domestics.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

[MENTION=151861]Colorblind Genius[/MENTION] I respect your opinion given your experience of playing domestic cricket and for coming out with a harrowing story about coach abuse.

However the bolded is massive, massive misconception. Our greats have little to thank our domestic system for, and owe a greater deal to the finishing school that was English County Cricket. It also exposed them to different surfaces, and learn under the tutelage of the world's best players. It's no coincidence the quality of cricketers Pakistan, and West Indies for that matter, have produced has nosedived since English Counties reduced the numbers of overseas players.

Secondly, Indian pitches are nothing like Pakistani pitches. Again the data, not my opinion, shows India's pitches on average have significantly more bounce than Pakistan's. As stated above India has a good variety of venues with big turners like Nagpur and more seam friendly tracks like Mohali. Our pitches don't deteriorate like India's or Sri Lanka's, they become deader and slower.

Politics and nepotism is obviously a problem but not relevant here since the topic is Pakistan's record in Australia.

I think the counter argument is,
Many of these current players have played all over the world in various cricket leagues - Pakistan has been playing away, with no home cricket, for more than a decade. We have played in all different kinds conditions and surfaces for so long in the last ten years that no other team has perhaps played this much away from home cricket, if we do the math on percentages.

You’d think they will be battle hardened by now?

And these current players also get advice from the greats of the past - Miandad, Wasim Waqar Inzi Yousuf Younus, and many foreigners etc - they all have worked with them - what else do we want?

Our records in Australia is one thing - but losing against Zim on any surface? Losing against India in such a horrible style?
If hardly serms to do anything with the pitch - it’s the lack of streets smartness, and match awareness, and an extreme lack of batting power/skill.

You got Shadab coming in at 4.
He is a bowling all rounder, I mean not even a batting all rounder, to plug the holes in the middle order.

Producing good batsmen is our Achilles Heel for quite sometime - but it can be made up with smart leadership and sharp Think Tank.

We don’t have honest and competent people to run the show.

 

[Markhor]

I think the counter argument is,
Many of these current players have played all over the world in various cricket leagues - Pakistan has been playing away, with no home cricket, for more than a decade. We have played in all different kinds conditions and surfaces for so long in the last ten years that no other team has perhaps played this much away from home cricket, if we do the math on percentages.

You’d think they will be battle hardened by now?

And these current players also get advice from the greats of the past - Miandad, Wasim Waqar Inzi Yousuf Younus, and many foreigners etc - they all have worked with them - what else do we want?

Our records in Australia is one thing - but losing against Zim on any surface? Losing against India in such a horrible style?
If hardly serms to do anything with the pitch - it’s the lack of streets smartness, and match awareness, and an extreme lack of batting power/skill.

You got Shadab coming in at 4.
He is a bowling all rounder, I mean not even a batting all rounder, to plug the holes in the middle order.

Producing good batsmen is our Achilles Heel for quite sometime - but it can be made up with smart leadership and sharp Think Tank.

We don’t have honest and competent people to run the show.

Very good points raised.

I think they have to grow up on those type of wickets to really learn the art of playing bounce. Batting is a skill developed through countless hours of repetition which hone your instincts.

Instead in Pakistan we seem to think a couple of days practicing on a marble slab in a pre-tour camp and suddenly the boys will learn to cut and pull, and we can win in Australia. That's not how it works.

We need one or two venues with genuine pace and bounce, another couple of grounds that support seam and swing, and the rest can be typical Pakistani wickets. Unfortunately this task is beyond our inept administrators and curators.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Very good points raised.

I think they have to grow up on those type of wickets to really learn the art of playing bounce. Batting is a skill developed through countless hours of repetition which hone your instincts.

Instead in Pakistan we seem to think a couple of days practicing on a marble slab in a pre-tour camp and suddenly the boys will learn to cut and pull, and we can win in Australia. That's not how it works.

We need one or two venues with genuine pace and bounce, another couple of grounds that support seam and swing, and the rest can be typical Pakistani wickets. Unfortunately this task is beyond our inept administrators and curators.

And on the flip side of the coin, if you look towards a potential problem and it’s solution then you will notice that there is a huge “attitude and shifting of focus” problem in our players.

And the biggest reason they are able to hold the administration hostage is that they know that there is no bench strength.

Zero focus on fitness and self discipline.
Zero focus on the concept of continuous improvement to stay super competitive with rest of the world.

So, with a little bit of success, the focus shifts more towards raising collars in the field and giving on the ground sajdaas because they think this little success is the end of the world. While the administration and coaches beg them to stay fit, as the unfit and overweight players compare themselves with Rohit Sharma and Inzi.

We are forced to pick unfit players because we don’t have a proper bench strength and replacements.

And we come back to the same solution - our school cricket and domestic cricket should be overhauled from the filth, and fixed to produce a large number of well qualified players - which will simply trigger an environment of tough competition.

National team players should be kept on their toes to continuously improve as the bench strength will haunt them.

Guys on the bench, shoukd always work hard to fill up that very little gap they have with the national team players to take their spots.

But right now, as Ramiz said, we don’t have Maradonas sitting on the bench.

Whatever langri Looli team we form, is the best product of our domestic cricket.

We take a donkey cart to compete in a formula 1 race and then beg for divine help or other teams to win or lose, so that we can accelerate in the tournament. Its such an irony that’s not even funny.

 

[wrongun]

Rameez announced a plan to outsource drop ins with different soil quality and so on from the locally available pitches, in order to have some bouncier pitches.

It's understandable if that plan takes a couple of years- you need to train curators on the intricacies of drop ins- you need a huge facility to store themand be able to control the light/temp/humidity at- you need the stadium to have access for the vast cranes that carry them to the centre etc.

Is that plan still underway?

That would be the solution most likely to produce some genuinely different pitches. Drop in tech has moved along and they new pitch at perth is just as quick as the old, because the sourced the original clay soil base. The new ones at Melbourne since they changed their soil & methods of storage/drop in (made it deeper) are much better.

You don't need to change every pitch. Variety is great for FC cricketers. Just 1 or 2 bouncy pitches among the other venues exposes them to different conditions often enough.

 

[Abid Z]

What a stupid post, every country needs to utilize home conditions when playing at home and prepare for conditions for tours, failure s one of prep not of home conditions. Why didn't babar and saqlain try combinations in eng series and nz tri-series? We have won series in Aus with the same pitched in pakistan. This is rameez-think, superficially sound argument that is hollow to the core.

This is a very disrespectful post. Please show a little more courtesy. The point made by the op is excellent but also quite obvious.

You can see how even our top players are struggling. They don’t need a McGrath (high class seam) or a steyn (high class swing) to knock them over. Any two bit medium pacer from Zimbabwe, Netherlands or even Ireland can do it as they just need to get decent bounce on a good length and we will implode like a pack of cards. The problem is clearly the pitches we have gotten used to playing on (and practicing on) and this has been talked about for years without any resolve. It kind of feeds into every aspect of our game

“…get our best test players in because only they can play orthodox shots to deal with extra bounce”
“…stick with older experienced players because only experience of these conditions matters “

Etc etc.

 

[Abid Z]

I didn’t realise until today we haven’t won a single t20 in Australia. Obviously we haven’t one many test matches either.

 

[shah_1]

Pitch behaviour is mostly due to enviroment and unfortunately PCB can't control it.


What pcb can do is hire professional soil engineers to do survey around Pakistan, find where there is high clay content, create grounds for youngsters and fc cricket

 

[Kianig89]

only way to address is send A tours to Aus Eng SA every year nothing else. a crow cannot become a crane

 

[muqarrab]

This is a very disrespectful post. Please show a little more courtesy. The point made by the op is excellent but also quite obvious.

You can see how even our top players are struggling. They don’t need a McGrath (high class seam) or a steyn (high class swing) to knock them over. Any two bit medium pacer from Zimbabwe, Netherlands or even Ireland can do it as they just need to get decent bounce on a good length and we will implode like a pack of cards. The problem is clearly the pitches we have gotten used to playing on (and practicing on) and this has been talked about for years without any resolve. It kind of feeds into every aspect of our game

“…get our best test players in because only they can play orthodox shots to deal with extra bounce”
“…stick with older experienced players because only experience of these conditions matters “

Etc etc.

How has indian won 2 test series sin australia with raging turners and similar bounce to pakistan? Pitches are a convenient excuse, they havn't changed in 75 years.

 

[Farabi]

I think the counter argument is,
Many of these current players have played all over the world in various cricket leagues - Pakistan has been playing away, with no home cricket, for more than a decade. We have played in all different kinds conditions and surfaces for so long in the last ten years that no other team has perhaps played this much away from home cricket, if we do the math on percentages.

You’d think they will be battle hardened by now?

And these current players also get advice from the greats of the past - Miandad, Wasim Waqar Inzi Yousuf Younus, and many foreigners etc - they all have worked with them - what else do we want?

Our records in Australia is one thing - but losing against Zim on any surface? Losing against India in such a horrible style?
If hardly serms to do anything with the pitch - it’s the lack of streets smartness, and match awareness, and an extreme lack of batting power/skill.

You got Shadab coming in at 4.
He is a bowling all rounder, I mean not even a batting all rounder, to plug the holes in the middle order.

Producing good batsmen is our Achilles Heel for quite sometime - but it can be made up with smart leadership and sharp Think Tank.

We don’t have honest and competent people to run the show.

Agreed. I would rephrase slightly. It seems to me that we are producing good batsmen but they have slow SRs.
On sharp think tank, obviously it’s hard for me to believe that there aren’t better batsmen with better techniques to occupy the 4-6 slot than Shadab. Like you said, Shadab isn’t even a batting allrounder.
Yes, we aren’t producing batsmen with 30 avg/ 145+ SR. But we are producing 25 Avg / 130 SR types but we are not utilizing them. We are also producing openers but we are hell bent on not trying them in middle order. Livingstone, Markaram were openers who readjusted to middle order.

Instead we are picking hacks and hoping they’d become dynamic 360 degree batters. I am genuinely wondering why we can’t we just pick proper batters like Tayyab Tahir, S. Shakeel, S.Farhan, Haris Sohail, Kamran Ghulam, A shafique. Sure, they are no Miller, but surely they are an upgrade in technique vs the current middle order hacks.
For example, Zim game we lost, we just needed batsmen who can play the gaps and score 7 RPO. We didn’t have single batsman 4-7 who was capable to do that.

 

[Markhor]

How has indian won 2 test series sin australia with raging turners and similar bounce to pakistan? Pitches are a convenient excuse, they havn't changed in 75 years.

So if you read the OP properly instead of angrily ranting, you'd see the Indian pitches DON'T have similar bounce.

Pakistan's pitches has 33% bounce rating from CricViz, India's has 47%. Individual venues like Mohali have very good pace and bounce. India also tour Australia regularly unlike Pakistan who have long gaps in between.

You cannot expect players who've grown up on the lowest bouncing pitches in the world to suddenly adapt to the highest bouncing pitches in a matter of days or weeks. Most former cricketers also say it's easier adapting from high to low bounce than vice versa.

Therefore a couple of high bounce venues in Pakistan would be fairly logical. Unfortunately Rameez, for all his talk of pitch upgradation, has been delivered nothing but empty promises.

 

[Abid Z]

How has indian won 2 test series sin australia with raging turners and similar bounce to pakistan? Pitches are a convenient excuse, they havn't changed in 75 years.

I think we should all be careful about comparing subcontinental teams. Whilst they are neighbours they have some peculiarities and unique characteristics too with their own development programs and support staff make up. India of course is the richest board with the ability to tour any country at will. Their pitches esp mohali are quite bouncy so their players will get a lot of practice on playing bounce.

Going back to the topic though I never realised Pakistan bounce was uniformly less than uae. I was always under the misconception that at least Lahore offered a bit of bounce. When you look at how completely abject our players are it’s obvious that we need to do more to help them play on bouncy pitches, improve their ability to take on the short ball. I can think of one player who looks capable in the last ten years of being capable in this regard. It’s not coaches or balls, or nepotism it’s simply a case of poor technique of not playing enough in the right conditions.

 

[muqarrab]

I think we should all be careful about comparing subcontinental teams. Whilst they are neighbours they have some peculiarities and unique characteristics too with their own development programs and support staff make up. India of course is the richest board with the ability to tour any country at will. Their pitches esp mohali are quite bouncy so their players will get a lot of practice on playing bounce.

Going back to the topic though I never realised Pakistan bounce was uniformly less than uae. I was always under the misconception that at least Lahore offered a bit of bounce. When you look at how completely abject our players are it’s obvious that we need to do more to help them play on bouncy pitches, improve their ability to take on the short ball. I can think of one player who looks capable in the last ten years of being capable in this regard. It’s not coaches or balls, or nepotism it’s simply a case of poor technique of not playing enough in the right conditions.

Pakistan has had low bounce slow turners since forever, may you started watching cricket when pakistan wasn't playing in the pakistan. But we have never had any other form of pitches than a low bounce slow turner, we have made a green wicket here and there , 2 stand out in 00's against india, and one shar turner in late 80s but low slow turners it has been forever.

 

[shah_1]

We need to stop using Kokabura balls during home season, the ball is not at all suitable for red cricket in Pakistan.

 

[ekpakistani]

First and foremost selection should be purely on merit and only FIT players should be considered, secondly, management should also be hired on merit.

Then yes pitches and having clear KPIs and performance management is important.

Our cricket team is a reflection of everything else in the country. Potential is there but lacks merit and transparency.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Pakistan suffered a lot during 2009-2017 period where no international matches were held, there was no investment made in the stadia and the pitches plus I think there was less revenue generated as well due to not being able to host any international cricket not taking into account the gross negligence on PCB's part to not pay attention on this matter.

But even before 2009, our domestic pitches were extremely dour especially for tests. If anyone remembers the test series in 2005 and 2006, they were flat roads with no help for any kind of bowler. The same thing goes for LOIs. Extremely dead pitched 90% of the time with an odd green top or damp wicket.

But that still doesn't excuse the fact why we haven't won a single test in Australia since mid 90s.

There is an element of big mental block as well. Pakistani cricketers tend to treat Australians as some kind of supreme cricketing power.

Then there is also an issue with Australia being the least toured country by PCT both for internationals and A team tours.

In addition, would also like to state the fact that Pak needs to start hosting fc, la and t20 matches in proper grounds not club cricket grounds with no facilities and 40m boundaries.

 

[jnaveen1980]

There are two pitches where Pakistan or any subcontinent team should do better. SCG and Adelaide oval. Gabba is probably the toughest for subcontinent as it still retains that old style pace and bounce. These are true wickets. You get value for shots.

 

[jnaveen1980]

By the way you can appoint Yasir Shah as consultatnt He made a century after all

 

[chinaman00]

I agree with the OP that it all boils down to the quality of domestic pitches. If the domestic pitches are remotely similar to the sorts we have seen during the Australian tour this year, then I am afraid we should not be surprised at the abysmal quality of Pakistani batsmen.

I also question the coaching quality in Pakistan. Pakistani coaches have consistently exposed themselves as a farce. Even the understanding of the former great players like Wasim Akram etc are horrendous.