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Too many top order players and no reliable lower order players?

Madplayer

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This is my assessment of whats wrong with Pakistan's ODI team.

I see a lot of batsmen who are successful in domestic circuit are top order players in their respective domestic teams. Rizwan, haris, azhar ali, maqsood, babar azam, sami aslam, hafeez, asad shafiq, fawad alam etc are all very successful batsmen domestically and Pakistan's batting in the national team revolves around these players mostly. But just notice that all of them (including those that i have not mentioned here but are in contention for selection Eg. Umar amin, umar sidiq etc) are top order players.

When we look at these players and their domestic performances, we say here are the prolific scorers who should be selected in the national team. We select them all and we have 6 top order batsman in the playing XI!! Why? Because they all average 40+ in the domestic circuits and are the best batsmen in the country.

Now how can we expect such top order players to play at number 5 and 6 sometimes 7 and propel us to high scores by scoring quick 50s or 60s down the order? They have just not been brought up knowing how to play like that!!!

You look for specialists at all batting positions. From openers to middle order batsmen to lower order batsmen. You look for the best batsmen at number 5 or 6 or even 7 (if u go for an allrounder) in the domestic teams and select such batsmen for the national side rather than expecting prolific top order scorers to adapt to such batting positions.

For me only 4 of azhar , fawad, haris, hafeez, sarfaraz, rizwan should be in the team and those 4 should strictly play as the top 4. Which will be the 4, you decide. For the number 5 and number 6 , find others who are specialists for those positions in domestic teams. This should do a world of good to our team. My suggestion would be an ali khan or a hammad azam at number 6.

Also in my opinion we shouldn't select pure spinners (who cant bat) in the playing XI unless its a rank turner. Pure Spinners like ajmal are done as far as ODIs are concerned unless they are magicians like the old ajmal. You can Select spin bowling allrounders eg. zafar gohar instead of a pure spinner.

Just my two cents. Comments are welcome.
 
Actually, I don't agree - PAK is playing wrong players in top 4 forcefully & forcing players that should be playing in Top 4 to lower order.

MoHa won't have batted in top 5 ever, even for SRL, WI or now BD; Sarfraz is a decent opener, can be a wonderful No.6 (where every team 'll play him), Fawad 'll not play for a Shield List A side, they are trying him at 4 to 7; Maqsood, would have batted at 3 by most teams (or won't have played him), Haris isn't a top class ODI player, but if played, not lower than 3 AND most teams 'll try to open with UAkmal, PAK is sending him at 7; while the man who should be cemented the No. 5 spot for a decade is wasted through Politics (read Malik).

In this team, only proper top 4 players are Azhar & may be Haris at 3; but since there are rumors, nobody has the guts to drop Sraf at 6 while MoHa 'll shoot me, if I say that he would have never ever batted at 1, 2 or 3...........
 
Actually, I don't agree - PAK is playing wrong players in top 4 forcefully & forcing players that should be playing in Top 4 to lower order.

MoHa won't have batted in top 5 ever, even for SRL, WI or now BD; Sarfraz is a decent opener, can be a wonderful No.6 (where every team 'll play him), Fawad 'll not play for a Shield List A side, they are trying him at 4 to 7; Maqsood, would have batted at 3 by most teams (or won't have played him), Haris isn't a top class ODI player, but if played, not lower than 3 AND most teams 'll try to open with UAkmal, PAK is sending him at 7; while the man who should be cemented the No. 5 spot for a decade is wasted through Politics (read Malik).

In this team, only proper top 4 players are Azhar & may be Haris at 3; but since there are rumors, nobody has the guts to drop Sraf at 6 while MoHa 'll shoot me, if I say that he would have never ever batted at 1, 2 or 3...........

Azhar is not an ODI player at all.

Agree with you regarding Sarfraz, Hafeez, Umar and Fawad. Only I would bat Sarfraz at 5 instead of six. The other two dont make the team (Hafeez without his bowling). Regarding Umar, I have been saying it for ages to try him as an opener.

Maqsood is more suited to no.6 in my opinion. He can be a good finisher. Doesnt need any time to get going and has a tremendous power game.

Malik is not wasted. He is just crap nowadays. Just a one score of fifty plus in four years is a shocking return no matter how excuses you give.

Coming to OP, I agree. Too many top order and not fit for ODIs players.

Haris and Rizwan should be batting at 3-4 with the rest of the team playing around them.

Sarfraz, Maqsood, Hammad, Zafar at 5-8 gives you a really solid lower order. All of them can bat under pressure and can become great finishers.

Sarfraz is excellent against spin and it is idiotic to waste the best of his abilities. He can be immense at no.5. The rest can go from ball one if required and have the temprament to contrust an innings if the top 5 dont give them the start.

Open with Babar, Shehzad and you have a pretty good ODI side. Where every player has a defined role and has been picked keeping the batting pisition in mind; unlike the mess we have right now.
 
You can always accommodate 1 Azhar (actually need 1, besides he is quite decent choice as Captain) - problem is when one tries to fix Azhar/Shehzad, Fawad, Haris, MoHa & sometimes Asad all in single line up.

I think, I wrote several times that Azhar's game isn't suited for ODI, but he is appointed Captain, criticizing 'll only put pressure on him; better try to build a team around him. Besides, he can bowl a bit leggi, may be can share 10 overs with another batsman, so that PAK can pick 6 batsmen + Sarfraz.

I am not so confident any more about PAK's upcoming talent - skill is there, but they come with singleton IQ, looks like a rabbit caught by search light.............
 
Bump

I still think this is a problem

Azhar,hafeez,babar,haris,shafiq,rizwan, shehzad, mukhtar, maqsood( injured so far) etc etc all are top order players. Even sarfaraz has been successful as an opener and just average at number 6. Most people on PP want allnof these guys to bat in the top order which is not possible.

Who is left for middle and lower middle order? Just Shoaib malik?? Lol
 
Lower order batting is the most tough.

Look at how Mahmadullah and others have changed since batting higher.
 
Bump

I still think this is a problem

Azhar,hafeez,babar,haris,shafiq,rizwan, shehzad, mukhtar, maqsood( injured so far) etc etc all are top order players. Even sarfaraz has been successful as an opener and just average at number 6. Most people on PP want allnof these guys to bat in the top order which is not possible.

Who is left for middle and lower middle order? Just Shoaib malik?? Lol

True, we're lacking a power hitter at 6. We can try Mukhtar/Bilal Asif there by dropping Shehzad and moving either Rizwan or Hafeez to open.
 
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Ideally, with all players available, my top 7 for PAK 'll be

Azhar (Captain, must play & he is just not dynamic enough to bat at 3)
Haris (I am not joking, left-right combination is a must for me in LO opening. Haris's game 'll be perfect for opening slot)
Babar (I could have put Babar as opener & Haris at 3, but as said, left-right combination is extremely important)
MoHa (Senior player - now need to take more responsibility from No. 4; besides, he 'll struggle against new ball)
Malik (Best LO middle order from PAK since MoYo, no one in PAK can control a chase better than him, also, just not good enough to bat at 3 in more changeling games)
Umar (I still rate him the game changer for PAK. It's between him & Amin, as Amin is lefti, can bowl few overs & brilliant fielder, but he is more suited for No. 3 than No. 6)
Sarfraz
8, 9, 10 & 11 - 4 bowlers picked on ABSOLUTE Bowling (& fielding) merit. If top 7 can't do the job, Anwar Ali is not going to win it from 8. For PAK's advantage, 2 (Wahab, Yasir, possibly 3, when Aamir returns back) of their automatic choice specialist bowlers can bat a bit, for the time being, I 'll pick Irfan ('ll be replaced by Aamir in a year's time) & a Right arm pacer (May be Sohail for now).

Excluding Aamir, 4 back ups for this XI 'll be - Amin, Rizwan, Rahat & a left-arm spinner (whoever the best Bowler between Gohar, Imad & the recent young left-arm spinner bowling brilliantly in recent domestics). There is no point picking Ahmed or Mukhter in the team, which already has 5 players in playing XI, who can open)
 
An attacking bowling unit has to be backed by an attacking batting unit.. The top 4 batsmen are your best players, and currently the top 4 we played today, should be better managed in the long term..
I don't agree with Azhar Ali opening in ODIs as he bats at 3 in tests and keeps the team surviving, therefore he should play the same position at 3 and guide the team according to the situation..
Also to mention, fielding has always been poor with pakistan, half chances as we saw today were created in full chances by good fielding.. But it's only the batsmen in our team who are good fielders.. Rizwan is a very good find indeed I must say..

Shoaib Malik should not be batting at 5.. It does not make sense when your most experienced batsmen is trying to save the team from a collapse every time.. And that too at 5.

We've been trying to find an Allrounder for sometime.. Maybe pakistan has persisted with shoaib Malik to take up the responsibility, but clearly we are missing a big hitter at the top.. Anwar Ali, Hammad Azam, Ehsan Adil.. All been tried.. Maybe sohail tanvir would be useful.. He's a Senior player who bowls good with the new ball and can be deadly in the later overs. His batting is also known for big hitting..

Wahab, and irfan are prone to injuries.. Until Amir makes a comeback, we will never find a solid unit..

The issue I have noticed with the team is that most players are not specialized in one format.. They have all been tested In all formats, thus increasing pressure on players to find a suitable format for themselves.. This just relates to losing chances to make a commendable place for themselves.
Hafeez plays all formats..
Asad shafiq has played all formats but clearly he is only good for test cricket.
I can mention so much more..
 
This thread was made in 2015 and i think the same problem is plaguing Pakistan team even today.

Goes to show you the "progress" that has been made.
 
Actually, I don't agree - PAK is playing wrong players in top 4 forcefully & forcing players that should be playing in Top 4 to lower order.

MoHa won't have batted in top 5 ever, even for SRL, WI or now BD; Sarfraz is a decent opener, can be a wonderful No.6 (where every team 'll play him), Fawad 'll not play for a Shield List A side, they are trying him at 4 to 7; Maqsood, would have batted at 3 by most teams (or won't have played him), Haris isn't a top class ODI player, but if played, not lower than 3 AND most teams 'll try to open with UAkmal, PAK is sending him at 7; while the man who should be cemented the No. 5 spot for a decade is wasted through Politics (read Malik).

In this team, only proper top 4 players are Azhar & may be Haris at 3; but since there are rumors, nobody has the guts to drop Sraf at 6 while MoHa 'll shoot me, if I say that he would have never ever batted at 1, 2 or 3...........

Agree with you
 
This thread was made in 2015 and i think the same problem is plaguing Pakistan team even today.

Goes to show you the "progress" that has been made.
A recently formed committee is looking in to the team's issues. May be email them and spare their hardwork.
 
our problem is at the top of the order, inzi selected it, despite knowing better.
 
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